Exploring the Intersection of AI Voice Technology and Gender Dynamics in the Workplace with Izabela Russell

Episode 3 • 8th March 2024 • Women WithAI™ • Futurehand Media

00:00 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Welcome to another episode of Women WithAI. I'm thrilled to welcome today's guest, but before we start the podcast, let me tell you a little bit about her.

Our guest today is Izabela Russell, who's known for her role as the CEO of Music Radio Creative, a leading company at the intersection of audio production and technology, as they can provide professional human voiceover artists and also AI voiceovers with a human production touch. This is where Izabela explores audio creativity and aims to make a positive impact with creative audio. Her expertise also extends to podcasting, digital marketing and content creation, showcasing her commitment to innovation and community engagement in the media industry.

Izabela has very recently restarted her own podcast, Audio Unicorn, after a four-year break, which is a podcast about podcasting for business. I'll put a link in the show notes, as you have to check it out if you're thinking of starting your own podcast. With over a decade of experience on this topic, I'm very much looking forward to speaking to her today and asking her where she sees AI taking us in the future. Izabela Russell, welcome to Women with AI.

01:04 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Thank you so much, joe. It's such a lovely introduction. Yeah, it was just blushing all along the way. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here, thank you.

01:12 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Tell us a little bit about yourself Now. You came to be working with AI, are they?

01:19 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

th my husband for well, since: 2004

01:56

And then we had the whole of last year and now this year with the AI revolution. Up until that point, we were very much about traditional media, obviously, podcasting, creators, et cetera. But that was a point of internal revolution, because we had the choice we could either embrace AI or pretend it doesn't exist in our field. And actually embracing was really, really important because we know that unless we are going to be leading in the field, our customers are going to go somewhere else and they are going to embrace the technology within our niche with people who are at the forefront of the change. So, literally from day one, we were like okay, we've got to embrace AI and not only that, we have to be leading in this field so that our customers are not going elsewhere. So this is how our AI voices started to be added onto our website. We keep adding them at the moment.

02:55

But we've also invested a lot of time and effort into things like custom GPTs. So we've got our own AI voice generator in custom GPT. It literally went live the same day. Custom GPTs went live. So we were the first in the niche to be out there, which proved to be great, and we love to experiment, and AI is actually such an incredibly exciting field to experiment in and try new things.

03:22

And as we try new things and experiment, we talk about them on our YouTube channel. So my husband is the more technical one, so I'm sitting here as if like, oh yes, I'm doing all of this, but the truth of the matter is I'm definitely not technical enough to go into the code and just come up with those amazing algorithms and whatever else, but my husband is, so I'm really really fortunate to have a business partner who is so interested in that that he's genuinely left everything he's doing and started to go towards the AI. So that's fantastic, and it has given us an opportunity to not only lead the topic but also connect with like-minded people, and I kind of go for that.

04:11 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Fantastic, and it just goes to show you don't need to have the techie background, you don't need to be the one that's writing the code or doing all that. It takes a partnership sometimes, and that's what AI does, doesn't it? That AI is helping us to do the things that we can't always do, giving us time back to do that. But I've got a question: Is there any difference in generating the male or female voices with AI?

04:32 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Not really. I think that. Well, maybe there is behind, like in the code or anything like that, but I don't think there is. Ultimately, male and female voices vary in pitch and, like you know all the unique audio compositions that we have, it's just you know how high or low you go in certain frequencies, right? So in terms of what the computer sees, it's like, well, we just need that frequency higher that frequency lower.

05:04

Then all of a sudden you have a definition of a male or a female voice. So I don't think it makes any difference to the computer. It just creates a voice and we as humans define whether that's a male or that's a female and how do you see that progressing in the future, that sort of cause?

05:18 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Obviously you still need the human touch. Or do you need the human touch?

05:23 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

I think you do. I think that the future will be definitely a hybrid of both. So, in terms of using voices, we definitely and I've been saying this from day one I think that probably a good 80% of voiceovers will no longer have a job, because actually, out of you know 100 voices, the 20 will be incredibly great voices with something that's memorable and unique, 80, you will listen to once and you won't really remember that well. So it will be quite brutal, and I think it already is, and I have seen the rumours and tremors in the industry and ultimately, the people who are excellent at their craft have nothing to worry about, but people who may be starting. There was this whole fiver revolution where people decided well, you know, I've got a microphone and therefore, I can be an excellent voice artist.

06:17

So I'm going to put my voice for $5 on fiverr and there I am. You know I'm a pro already. It's like no, not quite. And I think all of those voices are going to slowly disappear Because, in all fairness, there really isn't a point of using somebody who is into professional where AI can generate something that sounds incredible. So, but there are voices and we have very fortunate to work with quite a few of them where you listen to the vocal and you just are captivated. You will remember that voice, that it literally just penetrates through your cells in a way that other voice can't do, and those are the voices that will remain. So there will be a hybrid approach. I think that definitely, especially bigger companies, will have to make some considerations on like an ethical side of things as well and kind of that personal human connection. You know, will AI voices ever be able to really give it like a full human emotion and expression? Will AI be able to do that, and how will we, as customers, perceive listening to work that has been AI created?

07:31

So, I think that all of that is still to be decided. I don't think that that chapter has been entirely written, and I think it's only time that we'll tell no because people buy from people.

07:42 - Jo Shilton (Host)

And yeah, will people buy from AI? Obviously we do. We'll use AI. Alexa and Siri are both the female voices you can oh mine's going off in the background now. I think they can hear that.

07:57 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

I hate to keep listening.

07:59 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Oh no, she needs to stop. Alexa. Stop, there we go. So do you think there's a reason that they've been chosen to be the female voices? Is it just a wee more used to giving direction, or do you see AI as male or female?

08:21 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Oh, that's such an incredibly interesting question. I think it's quite personal to us. So I have read quite a lot of research about which voices are more authoritative than others and there are actually. There is quite a significant amount of research to say that we are more perceptive to buy when a male, authoritative male voice announces something. But I think, with regards to a female voice, I think it's more of a subconscious nurturing kind of you know safe because we associated with a mother, right, like you know, we all have a mother and that is so deeply engraved that I think it plays a big role in why we call AI woman rather than him, right? So, yeah, which is really strange. But there you go.

09:15 - Jo Shilton (Host)

And do you think that you know? Some people say that AI is going to have an outsized impact on women in the workplace, because a lot of jobs that women do could be the ones that AI will be really good at. What are your thoughts on that?

09:32 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

I think that AI will definitely take over a lot of jobs. Whether they are specifically female jobs, I'm not certain whether I would make that assumption, but I have just yesterday actually watched a little clip from the government of Singapore. They have like a session and they are talking about the fact that a lot of the jobs that people have spent five, six years training in the university will no longer exist in the next five to ten years. So what they started to do is actually offer people opportunities to go back to university and retrain in a completely different field, for free, which I think is so incredibly forward thinking and you know, actually I think a lot of the governments are not talking about it because it's quite expensive.

10:24

You know from the point of view of, like heck, you know, we told people five years ago that you know, if you go to university you are going to have this amazing future, right? Yet people are finishing universities right now in the field of design or writing, architecture and you know so many other different fields, and they may not have a future. That future may actually not exist in the next five to ten years. So, just going back to your initial question, whether it's a male or a female, I don't know. Could we generalise that to say there are more female designers or writers? I don't know. I don't know whether the creative, it's the creative industry that's hit first, right? So do we have more females in the creative industry than we have males? Perhaps? I don't know the answer to it, but historically you know it's. The male roles have been associated more with things like programming and more analytical positions etc. Which obviously shouldn't be the case, but it is, and I am hoping that actually AI can turn this slightly around and make it easier for women to go into the more involved roles. Perhaps, with the help of AI, we could see more of an equal balance in the future on things, because you know, however people want to phrase it as male females, we're not equal, we just aren't.

11:56

You know, as a woman, you have responsibility to bring children to the world right, and actually as many people as we'll tell you. Well, you know, I'm a very involved dad and whatever else. No, it just never is quite the same. I always say to my husband when you go to a conference, you can just leave the house and you leave the house and you go to the conference. When I go to the conference and leave you in charge, I can't leave until everything and everybody is sorted. And even when I leave, I still haven't left because I'm still in charge of things that have to be done.

12:30

And this is a reality of probably 99.9% of women, and men don't like to admit to that and I think that often are in completely oblivious space when it comes to, you know, family life and everything else, and they think that, well, you know, if I'm doing my share, like our share is always larger. There just isn't life where our share isn't, but that's just the role of a mother that we have and I think that has to be in some way recognized, especially in workplaces that are very time intense, that everything has to. You know, things develop so fast that that presence there is absolutely essential. It's as women we cannot have the same privilege in that sense because of that responsibility we have at home and I don't know how to square that. I think that people have been trying to square that for a really long time. They still clearly haven't.

13:27 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I think it's the difference between what's what's equal and what's fair, isn't it as well? Because it's not equal. But can it be fair? And you know, with AI freeing up time and potentially handling tasks, that could be done, you know. Hopefully it will free up time for women to become more creative and to get in the industry, because I think that's really important. We need to be able to empower women to use AI and encourage women into the field. I mean how? I mean, as you say, like if we can offer courses or do things. I think it's trying to get women a seat at the table. How can we do that? Do you think?

14:03 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

It is really tricky. I think a lot is changing already. So, if you think about it, actually during COVID, where we were all forced to work from home, that already started that change, because I think the fact that we could be at home and do our work from, you know, the office in our home has made a big impact on our lives as mothers.

14:25 - Jo Shilton (Host)

And also gave the guys an insight into teaching, homeschooling, working from home, having the kids there.

14:34 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Exactly so. I think that that was the first step and perhaps that recognition already has happened. So being able to be flexible with work is the first step. There's just no other way around. You know, if we have children, women at the age where they have young children have to be allowed to be mums too, because you can't separate the two, you just can't, and it's just not fair to ask really.

15:03

And then I don't know whether it's the matter of courses, but perhaps we should start at the very beginning. We should start looking at how our education system has been created, and it is about encouraging girls specifically to look at computer science. It's about having more teachers who are women in that field as well, because then it just shows the girls that they can go there too. And I think it is about making that access to education very easy from the start and actually maybe very female driven, specifically for girls, because I don't think you can approach it in the same ways for boys and the girls. And the sooner we realize that, I think, the quicker we can go ahead.

15:52 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Yeah, thank you, and that's a really good answer. Yeah, and it's using the tools ethically. And I know some people have said AI will take over and it's really dangerous and what's going to happen. And I think, well, if you agree, what do you think? Does it depend on who's coded it or does it depend on who's using it?

16:13 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Well, you know, I mean there is so much in there, isn't there? Because actually, if you think about it, like any AI platform has to learn based on the data we input, right? So if the data we give it already has a gender bias, then there is no hope right.

16:30

Then, whatever comes out, they will amplify gender biases and keep doing that. So it's like that is going to obviously have massive impact. And at this stage where everything is so it seems everything is so new, there is so much that's happening, I think more than ever it's so important that those people in charge of AI technology really give women equal space in the development process, because we think different to how men thing, we approach issues, challenges, and we just approach it very differently. That just is the case. So unless we teach AI that that is the case, how will it ever catch on on the differences, right? A great example of that actually is in medicine, and as male and female bodies we are very different, we will have very different potential for problems, especially in our hormonal outset, right. So women go through menopause and there was a study somebody I was speaking to somebody the other day about this there was a study done where something like 70% of American male doctors couldn't identify signs of menopause and actually ways to treat women.

17:54

And if you look back, look into, say, the 60s and 70s majority of doctors and professors were male and therefore the gender bias has been passed on from generation to generation. So if you go back to the 30s, for a woman to be a doctor was unheard of, right. So you know then that slowly trickled in, but not fast enough, to the point where today, in the modern society, women are not getting a relevant treatment for something that every single woman has to get through in her life because of the gender bias in the medical society. So how, you know, if we don't approach this with caution and care, how will it impact us as women?

18:43 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Exactly. That's such a good point. I think we really need to be shouting about this and getting as many girls at school or at students at university involved in this, because you're right, it, you know every one of us is. You know, hopefully we will live that long. It will go through menopause as women, and you're right. What do you do? People don't know how to recognize it. I know lots of workplaces now have you know menopause in the workplace and how to - you know how to deal with it and what to do and how to be more. You know worried not worried, but how to let people get through it, how to deal with it, how to be able to do this object right.

19:19 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

It's like you know, it's actually a significant change in the body. Yeah, it's huge, and if men went through it?

19:23 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I'm pretty sure that there would be a lot more research having been done into it.

19:28

This is a really big topic, and you're right, and it's. It's you know. It impacts everything. It's sport, it's health, it's you know. You look at fasting. There's a book that I've been reading recently Fasting Like a Girl because people talk about fasting and how great it is and do this and go for this many hours and as a man, you could follow that every single day. You could fast for 12 to 15 hours every single day. Wonderful.

19:52

As a woman, your hormones go up and down. So over that four week period, or however long your cycle is, you actually need to fast for different lengths of time or not fast, depending on when you're due, and it's all those things that have never been looked into. And sports women if you're running a marathon, there's going to be one week of your cycle or maybe a couple of times where you know you're going to do really well, and there's other times when you know you don't want to be running those long distances or lifting a heavy weight. You need to lift lighter weights and that should be taught at school. So I think all of those things allowing women to understand their bodies and how they work and that has to be taught to AI, because AI is always learning, so the sooner we can do that.

20:35 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Exactly. And the question is are we too late? If you look at big companies, well, chat, gpt, open AI. How much have they put into ensuring that there are no gender biases? Have they released anything to say that we have done responsible thing and we've done our research and I have done this, that or another, I don't know. And how do you ensure that? And then, when it scrapes the internet for the information, the information it scrapes is like how do we know that it is balanced, it's balanced point of use? I just don't know. So it is potentially quite scary if you actually genuinely go deep into that and think okay, what potential future repercussions are going to come from this? They could be huge if we are not careful and I think just as you say.

21:32

As women, we have to talk about this really, really loud and openly, because we are half of the voice we would have to be heard.

21:42 - Jo Shilton (Host)

It has to be diverse. It has to. It can't just be the white male that's having all the input and all the coding. And that's why we need to speak up, because we need to say well, have you thought about this? Have you considered that? What is the impact on women specifically?

21:58 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Exactly, and I think that there is a great effort, especially to address the cultural differences and it's like just making sure that there is an equal representation of white versus coloured people and so on. But is that enough? And I would say, is that in terms of visual aspect, obviously, yes, that is super important, and then obviously you have the gender biases too, but in terms of actual data, whether you are, I don't know whether you are- a black or white woman, do you have different points of view?

22:38

Do you have to granularly spread it further racially down? I don't know. Has anybody actually looked into that to say, do those differences matter? Or do you then look at culturally dividing and saying, you know, I don't know with people of certain beliefs may have that point of view, whereas people of that belief would have a different point of view?

23:00 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I just don't know. I mean, this is literally a mind-bill. It's huge, isn't it? Because you're right? Because, yeah, whether you are black or whether you're white, your body, there are differences. There are internal differences to how your body deals with things and how you react to things, and that all needs to be fed in. And that's why we need to educate everyone on AI, specifically women and the sort of minorities, so that they can have their say and have their input, because otherwise, yeah, it will be women that are impacted on.

23:29 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

It will be. It will be, and I think that the largest area that this really needs to be looked into is healthcare, and this is where there is the largest hope for AI sits. Yet that's where the largest problems could occur, because they are already occurring in medicine all around the world today, so you know the data we're feeding AI for this. Is that corrected to not repeat those problems?

23:58 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Exactly. It's out of date, going back to the menopause or the data you know, saying that it was bad to go on. HRT was all done from a study that was done on the wrong age group of women at the wrong time on a really small group, but that's the information that was put out there. So that's the information that you know generative AI could have taken all its information from you need to be updated with all the stuff that's been said more recently in the last couple of years.

24:23 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

No, that's it and all the. I don't know whether you've seen all the problems Gemini, Google's Gemini, is having at the moment with the fact that it's, like you know, refusing to generate white pope every time you ask it. It's like, literally, somebody has programmed the gender bias so much so that you know it's just unable to generate, you know, you ask it to generate an image of a Nazi soldier. It will generate you a black man in a Nazi uniform, and you're just like really that's what, yeah, so you need the human production touch.

25:00 - Jo Shilton (Host)

You need someone ultimately I think definitely for the very near future to check all this, because they can't do it and they can't, yeah, go on.

25:09 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

No, but you know that is being released and you know. Then there was this other meme circulating the internet where somebody asks Gemini, you know who has done a bigger harm to humanity, Elon Musk or Adolf Hitler? And it's refusing to give an answer. It's absolutely hilarious and you're just like okay, you know, unless you're going to go back to the drawing board, are you only covering up the things you've already programmed in clearly that are present? You know, it's like and actually Elon Musk had an interesting post about this where he's like you cannot cover up what you've already put in there, you have to fire the whole team and start again. There is just no other way. So you know how much is covered up in gender differences that we don't even know.

25:58 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I know we need to stop feeding it all the stuff that has happened, because you know, look at all the wars, look at all the misinformation or things that have gone terribly wrong. That's the stuff it's learning. We need to stop all that and start again.

26:10 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Exactly, exactly, so we need to encourage more women to be very vocal. There are some incredible researchers in the AI space that are female, and I just hope that they are going to get the voice they deserve, and to anybody who's listening, who is organising events or talking to people in the space. Do give equal space for both men and women to have their voices.

26:35 - Jo Shilton (Host)

That's a really good point. That's a really good point. Do you know? Have you got any references or recommendations for?

26:44 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

So there is a lady called Timnit Gebru. She actually made quite significant research in terms of ethical AI, especially in the areas of bias and fairness, accountability etc. So I would highly recommend looking her up. She's quite an interesting lady. And then there is Hannah Walsh. She's done quite a lot of research into fairness in machine learning and things like that. She actually works for Microsoft or she used to, I don't know whether she's still there. She's a researcher at Microsoft Research and advocates quite a lot towards diversity and inclusion in the AI community, so perhaps those two would be good.

27:29 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Brilliant. I'm sure our audience will really appreciate that. And final thought well, I mean this might not be the final thought I can keep talking to you all morning. Do you think the way we interact with AI I think all the things we've said I think it's that being that mother, maybe being nurturing, being I mean women we multitask. You know guys. You know not to over generalise, but you know they like to do one task at once. But we can do lots and AI can do lots. So hopefully AI will free up time for women to be able to do even more. That's how we have to view it. I think we have to really embrace that it can do that, but also, you know, not being rude to it, saying thank you, saying please, but also just just nurturing it. What do you think?

28:18 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

This is the danger, isn't it? Especially when you start having kids interacting with AI. You know how are they going to view it. You know. Quite a lot of the time, actually, I think companies make a point of not calling it a man or a woman, it's you know they or it yeah, it just is right.

28:38

ecifically at the age of like: 1314

29:50

you know it is going to be a teacher. It is going to be a friend. You know it will probably be in toys, where the children talk to the toys, etc. How is that going to deeply engrave in their minds and have an impact on their perception of gender roles?

30:09 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I don't know, that's really scary. The hope, I think.

30:12

You're right, because there's a film. It's a really old film now. I think it's Joaquin Phoenix. It's Lucy. I think I might be getting my films mixed up here, but he has the AI voice that's somehow in his head. You know, he asks her, is it her? Or maybe it's called her, maybe it's her Her. Yeah, I've watched that. He falls in love with her because he's speaking to her all the time. He's on the, he's commuting, he's talking, he's giving her the notes and everything. Yeah, and you know, at that time especially, you know, sort of in a post COVID, well, post pandemic, when people were at home and if people were on their own, I don't know. It's frightening. When is that the future? But then social media as well, you know, affects children and so we've seen that you know they're like.

30:56 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

We have and you know.

30:58 - Jo Shilton (Host)

now we look back and we know how damaging it is to the young brains, right, yeah, I mean, I've got two young nieces and we're like, no, they can't have a phone, not at least until they get to secondary school, when they might have to catch a bus and then lock it down, don't let them have access, just to try and protect them. And but you see other ones that have older siblings that have already got access, and the way they are, and you're like, oh no, this is, this is serious, this is getting really scary.

31:21 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

It is, and I think that there has to be some consideration given to how we allow children to interact with AI, because their brains are developing the, you know, the little connections between the cells are still raw and they still can be shaped in different ways. So by giving them access or letting AI shape them, what are we exactly doing to humanity as the future? Like? How is that impacting things? Is there anybody doing studies on this? I don't know. And how ethical?

31:51 - Jo Shilton (Host)

are studies in the first place or something like that.

31:54 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Right yeah.

31:57 - Jo Shilton (Host)

This is the beginning, and I think this is what we need to push for and to find out.

32:00 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Yes, and I think there has to be a word of caution. Definitely with AI. You know it can help us greatly. I, you know, I will use chat GPT to help my daughter do her homework, but I will do things like recently she was working on Macbeth at school and there are so many different characters in there and I was just like, oh, you know it was.

32:27

She had homework where she had to really analyse different relationships and I was just like okay, you know, I was like it's been a while since I read Macbeth, let's just go in. But you can ask Chat GPT, like, explain to me this as if I was 12 year old, right? And then it's like you can read that out, you can work with your child to say, okay, well, you know, that's, that's, that's what it is. And she was like oh, great, you know this really really helped her.

32:52

So perhaps having tools that are age appropriate, that really grain into two different things on the level of a child that's using them, maybe that's in some way the future that there should definitely be. There should be recognition of the age of a child and how interactions like that impact.

33:13 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I love that. I think, yeah, age appropriate tools definitely, and that's what AI should be. It should be, it's a tool. We don't want it to take over, you need a handle on it.

33:24 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Well, at the moment it's a tool. At the moment it is a tool, but I genuinely think within the next five years it will be a lot more than that. I mean, you know, all it takes is looking at what's happening in Japan. In Japan, there is this whole thing of single men who are struggling to find a life partner right, and they turn towards technology as a form of companionship. That's already happening in Japan. So this is something that has been happening for the last five years and now we are going to see this coming into our Western world where people will have access to it. Will that impact relationships? Will that impact the ability for young people to find life partners? I just don't know.

34:07 - Jo Shilton (Host)

This is really scary. We are just at the beginning and it's happening really fast.

34:13 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

This is the thing it's like. You know, if we spoke about this five years ago, Jo, we would be like, oh well, it won't even happen in our lifetime. But now, when we've seen what has happened in the last 12 months alone, I'm just like this is the case. We will be discussing maybe next year it's.

34:28 - Jo Shilton (Host)

That curve just goes all the way up, doesn't it? So it's been so slow since the 50s, or whenever it started being talked about, and it's just exponentially exploded.

34:36 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Just going up. It's a hockey stick and it's like where does it stop? I just don't know.

34:41 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Izabela, where this has been fascinating. Where can people find you? Where are you?

34:48 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

You can find me on LinkedIn. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. Just search for Izabela Russell. It's spelled I-Z-A-B-E-L-A. Russell. I think I'm the only Izabela Russell with that specific spelling there, so you will find me easily. Would love to connect with you, hear your thoughts.

35:04 - Jo Shilton (Host)

LinkedIn is the best place to find me. Brilliant. We'll put a link to that in the show notes, but it's been a pleasure to have you on women with AI. With AI, I'll do that line again. Thank you, Izabela. It's been a pleasure to have you on women with AI and I hope to speak to you again soon.

35:21 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Thank you, Joe. It's been a pleasure chatting there we go.

35:24 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Thank you, I really enjoyed that. And suddenly I'm not even looking at the time and I said, oh my goodness, it's been half an hour. No, that's right.

35:31 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

We had a good chat, so I hope that listeners will have a good time listening.

35:37 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Yeah, and you're right, it is so scary thinking about the children. I haven't got children, but I've got my nieces of seven and 10. And I was trying to explain to them what this podcast was and it was. But, yeah, you're right, they use their iPads and drawing and that kind of stuff, but they speak to Google and Siri and they know how to use my phone.

35:59 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

Yeah, no, that's it. It is quite scary and I think that definitely needs to be more discussion about it. I don't think that that's prominent enough, and if you think about people, in less privileged areas.

36:14 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Who will?

36:14 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

be given access to AI. I don't think there will be any consideration in their heads as to how is that going to impact, you know, when you have kids that are just left to sit on an iPad for the whole day, or parents who genuinely are not that bothered? You know?

36:29 - Jo Shilton (Host)

that don't know what they're looking at already. Yeah, if they're starting to interact with an AI platform yeah, how is?

36:36 - Izabela Russell (Guest)

that is going to change things. That's scary. That's the future that I'm not sure I'm excited about.

36:42 - Jo Shilton (Host)

No, Maybe I'll get David to add this bit into the podcast.

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