Today, we dive into the essential gap between what executives are told they need to master and the actual training they receive. Our guest, the Honorable Dr. John Hillen, shares groundbreaking insights from his new book, *The Strategy Dialogue*, which reveals that only 4% of executives think strategically as a default. John emphasizes that strategy is about connecting today’s actions to tomorrow’s outcomes, much like a chess player visualizing moves ahead. We discuss how leaders can cultivate this strategic mindset not just in themselves but also in their teams, transforming ordinary meetings into powerful strategy sessions. Join us for a conversation that promises to elevate your leadership game and make you truly unstoppable!

In this engaging episode of the Unstoppable Success podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with the Honorable Dr. John Hillen, a distinguished board chairman, corporate director, and professor. John is passionate about bridging the gap between strategic thinking and practical actions within organizations. We explored the paradox of executive competencies, where leaders are often trained in technical skills but lack the tools for strategic foresight. John shared insights from his new book, 'The Strategy Dialogue,' emphasizing that only a small fraction of executives naturally think strategically. We discussed how most leaders focus on short-term goals instead of linking daily tasks to long-term vision, similar to how one would plan for success in a gym. John urged listeners to start thinking strategically in their daily routines by connecting present actions to future outcomes, thus cultivating a mindset that anticipates and plans for what lies ahead.

As we dove deeper into the conversation, John revealed that strategy is not just about setting goals; it’s about understanding the interconnectedness of various market forces. He likened strategic thinking to a game of chess, where each move must consider future possibilities. The importance of fostering a culture of strategic dialogue within organizations was highlighted, encouraging leaders to regularly integrate strategic thinking into their meetings. John shared practical tips for leaders to cultivate a strategic mindset, emphasizing the need for a collective approach to strategy that includes diverse perspectives from across the organization. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to elevate their leadership capabilities and drive their organizations toward long-term success.

Takeaways:

• Effective leadership involves understanding the gap between strategic thinking and tactical execution, which is often overlooked in training.
• Only 4% of executives naturally think strategically; the rest can develop this skill with practice and the right mindset.
• Strategy is about connecting today's actions to future outcomes, much like planning your workout to achieve fitness goals.
• Leaders need to cultivate relationships beyond their immediate team to build a robust strategic network for future opportunities.

Links referenced in this episode:

• johnhillan.com
• The Strategies Dialogue

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Duke University
• Hampton Sydney College
• George Mason University
• IBM

Well, hello everybody and welcome to the Unstoppable Success podcast. I am your host, Jaclyn Strominger. And on this podcast we hear from amazing leaders and their game changing insights.

We want everybody to be better leaders so they can be truly unstoppable in the marketplace. And today I have an amazing guest on and his name is John Hillen. And let me just give you a little bit background on John.

So he, he is the Honorable Dr. John Hillen and he is a board chairman, corporate director, and he is a popular college professor and sought after speaker.

In addition to his board roles, he teaches strategy and leadership at Duke University, Hampton Sydney College and in the MBA program at George Mason University, which is absolutely fantastic. I absolutely love that. And currently right now he has a new book out called the Strategy Dialogue and it is entertaining and he makes strategy.

John makes a strategy actionable and understandable. And by Marshall Goldsmith, a must read for anyone looking to get clarity and bring these tools to their business. So John, welcome.

As we were talking pre show, we were talking a little bit about how strategy is not really talk. So I am so happy that you are.

Yeah. Thanks Jaclyn

It's a funny thing because every executive, no matter what they do, small companies, big companies, earlier in their career, later in the career, are always told that they need to assemble this group of what we call executive competencies, things they need to be good at. And there's always a category for thinking strategically, big picture, long range, understanding the forces that shape your market.

And, and yet almost all the corporate training, by my estimation, about 80% of it is oriented on giving people more technical and tactical skills to get things done day to day. And so it's this gap in things we say we must be able to master and then things we actually train and give people an opportunity to work on.

Yeah. So tell me like where, you know, where was the genesis?

Like when you were writing, like when you're thinking about the book, I mean obviously, you know, obviously you know that there's this gap. So why did you decide to write the book?

So I came across this really interesting study that looked at executives, tested thousands of executives and asked what is their natural acts and logic? This is the way they make decisions. They try to win the day in the meeting, they try to get people to come their way.

Maybe they're defending their turf if they're under pressure and they use a natural logic. And only 4% of the executives they tested naturally think strategically, that's their go to move.

And what I mean by that, if you say John, you know this report is really due Friday. If you're trying to talk me into that strategically, you say, well look, you know, if you get it to me by Friday, then I have what I need to see.

We're going to where we're going to be at the end of the month. And if I know we're going to be at the end of the month, I can maybe shape our ambitions for the quarter.

And if we get to there by the end of the quarter, I can look at our year end. I can even shape, you know, going out further.

So you'll interconnect a series of pieces of why the thing due Friday connects to the longer term picture.

If you've seen that movie, the Queen's Gambit, you know, the chess player, she sees the moves on the ceiling as she's laying in bed ahead of her matches. So it's a little bit like that. Which is why people, people associate chess with strategy.

Only 4% of people naturally try to connect today's move to a bunch of tomorrow's outcomes. Most executives are really focused on short term achievement or mastering the data or trying to give everybody a little bit of their way.

So everybody gets, you know, some piece of the decision. And so that's why I said, wow, only 4% are natural strategist.

How can we put something into the literature that helps the 96% find this muscle and exercise it? Because everybody's got the capacity to think this way. It just tends to be an unused muscle.

And just like if you have a good trainer in the gym, they'll show you how to activate a muscle and then they'll show you what machines in the gym to go use to build it. You can do the same thing with the strategic part of your brain.

It's so funny as you're studying the time, it's so true. And it's also at the same time, I'm thinking the gym.

If you, you know, if the end game at the gym is to make sure that you got big guns or whatever it is, or you want to drop 10 pounds or whatever the what, whatever that end game goal is. Right, right. You, you work backwards. Like what do I need, what do I need to do to get there? You know, and it's the same thing.

And what you were just saying about so many people are looking at what they have to do today to move the needle, but in actuality, right. You know, we really need to look at. If I want to be a $5 billion company in five years, I need to go Backwards.

And so that what I do today is actually building on the things that I need to do to get me to the five.

Exactly. You've nailed it. Because strategy, first of all, and you touched on this. It's a way to think, not a what to think. Right.

It's not some perfect outcome. It's not a magic answer. It's a way you interpret your surroundings, you process information, and you start to put together plans.

Those plans, those moves interconnect and add up to where you're going. And so that whole journey, that strategy, it's a complete blueprint. It's a game plan to get you from one place to another.

The another place should be a place of more advantage, whether it's growth, whether it's competitive strength, whether it is. It can be. It can be a defensive move in the marketplace, but it's a series of things that interconnect to get you to a place of greater advantage.

Okay, so here's my question for you. So people are listening right now, right? And we've got leaders that are listening, and they're like, okay, I get this.

I. I'm understanding the whole concept. What's the first thing that I need to do today to think more strategically?

Yeah, well, there's, you know, in Vegas, you know, they have these tells. Well, I always say, what's the tell of somebody thinking strategically? They're thinking long range, not short term.

They're thinking big picture, not their immediate surroundings. You know, there are challenges that week. They're seeking to connect things. Analysts break problems down.

A strategic mind weaves everything back together. What's going on with my suppliers, my customers, my competition, technology, the regulatory environment, the economic environment, consumer habits.

And they look at the way all these ecosystems that affect their business interconnect. So that's another giveaway for strategic mind.

The other thing I found, Jaclyn, is that people who are thinking strategically are oriented towards the future, and they tend to have a different attitude. They don't say no to themselves. They say, if I'm going to do that in the future, what would have to be true for that to happen?

They don't say, oh, that'll never work. They say, what would have to be true for that to happen? And they can start playing with scenarios and seeing how realistic it could be. Pros and cons.

So there's a creativity, there's an art of the possible attitude about thinking strategically. I think those kind of characteristics really separate strategic mind. And everybody can practice this.

I tell, you know, companies, I say, don't wait for your mysterious once a year strategy off site. Like this is daily, right? Because everybody has it, right? This, this should be daily hygiene.

Like have a strategy moment in your meetings where at the end of the meeting you say, okay, this thing we just decided on, everybody, let's go around the room and make sure everybody understands how it connects to the big picture and the long range plans.

Right? And I guess that's the other key question is, is as a leader, you know, it's, is it. Do you, would you say, take a look at.

And I'm going to think about this in the standard standpoint, almost like from the standpoint a, from an entrepreneurial standpoint where you got your solopreneur right. They still need to think. There's thinking big in strategy, but then they also have all the day to day. So do you, Would you say look at those.

You know, I shouldn't say, like what would you say to them? Like, what are the, like what are the, what's the way for you to think strategically as the entrepreneur?

Right. Yeah. And really important.

I say, you know, one of the excuses I hear from people sometimes, they say, oh, I don't need the strategy stuff because we're a small company or I'm just getting started. That's a big company thing. IBM needs a strategy. I don't. I'm like, yeah, of course you don't. I would never want to know what the weather is.

I would never want to be prepared for it. I'm just going to go out every day and hope something good happens to me. Right. And then people say, okay, I get where you're going.

But even smaller companies, and there's a day in the life of every entrepreneur where in the morning they're working on the biggest deal they've ever worked on and in the afternoon they're fixing the office coffee machine. Right. That's just the life you go through as an entrepreneur. So I'm a swimmer and you know, nobody ever asked me what arm I swim with.

I swim with both arms in both ways. And so people need to think of it the same way. You have to get your tactical things done. We're paid as executives at any level to get things done.

You also have to think and plan for the future and start to put together those pieces we talked about. These are two different parts of the brain, quite literally right brain, left brain in many ways. And you've got to have all muscles working.

And I coach executives actually color code on their calendar activities that were oriented around short Term execution and activities that were oriented around strategic progress which are tend to be longer range in nature and people can see how their day breaks up, which meeting satisfied, which kind of task that they're responsible for.

I actually love. It's like, you know, people talk about like what, what's what, what bucket or what is. What shelf are, you know, are you working on right now?

Like where is that right in that, that play, you know, something that you said too, that I just, I kind of want to go back to a little bit. So.

And we were chuckling about it, about the, the yearly strategy strategic meeting, whatever, and I can't begin to say how many that I've been through. And you're like, okay, why did we even do that? Like it's like you do it and then.

Right. Everybody comes at him is like, gosh, now I just lost two days of answering my emails because I've been sitting in a strategy off site.

Right, right. And we've never, we, we actually didn't come out. You, you talk about strategy, but what's the action plan right now?

That, that's really important. In fact, I was doing an off site earlier today with a company and I said one of the most. First, you've got to manage expectations. Right.

It's not something, there's not like some leprechaun at the end of the strategy rainbow that says, hey, here's your magic answer. Here's your plan for the next five years.

It's a process and your, and your, and your bucket of gold. Right?

Right. Exactly, exactly. So it's not that.

So you know, thinking about strategy, working on strategy, which should always be a collective exercise, you know, you get the whole team in. There is not something that gives you, you know, this magic solution. It's not pixie dust. So there's expectations.

The other thing, the worst thing you can do is just let it sit. I think all executives, all leaders need to be oriented towards action.

And so you immediately pluck out, which is one of the things we did at the end of the off site today, which was, okay, what can we act on now? We know direction. We've agreed directionally where we need to go.

We've even begun to perceive and write down some of the actual individual moves and when they might happen that'll pull us in that direction. A direction we've all decided leads us to a better place, whatever better means for your business. So let's knock it out. What low hanging fruit.

What can we do today? Let's celebrate that when we get it done tomorrow. What's a monthly thing, what's a quarterly thing?

So I think people can start to lay out almost like stepping stones, you know, these moves, as long as they keep the momentum of the organization going in the strategic direction upon which they've decided.

Okay. And it's so true. And it's, you know, creating that act on. I, I think that is so, it's so important to be able to have that.

So something that you said that I kind of want to ask you about too is, you know, and I think this is, it's a huge insight is that that strategy session should be collective, it's with the whole team. And so how many times, you know, in your experience have you seen it be just the executive team?

Yeah. Too often. Too often. And you know, a lot of the best thoughts about the things I've been talking about strategy. How are customers behaving?

How are suppliers behaving? They tend to come from the people in an organization who are actually touching those ecosystems.

And so I do think you want different voices in the room, people with different perspectives who are viewing the world of that enterprise differently. And you think together. And I, you know, I do it in my off sites, very structured way. Everybody does, but you want to think together.

And we use these things called frameworks and strategy work.

And there's simply a way to organize your thinking, you know, like the old BCG matrix, you know, it's just a way to organize your thinking and start to ask hard questions, Gosh, which of the businesses we're in are in the growth areas and should we invest in those?

Which ones are great businesses but they're not really going anywhere and maybe we'll just harvest those things and which things, you know, we're trying, but they're not working out so well, maybe we need to stop doing that or divest. It's just a way to organize thinking and get people talking.

I find that if you can get the right people having the right conversation at the right time, you're in the, you know, 90th percentile of high performing organizations.

So it's, it really starts with having that dialogue, that conversation where people are talking about strategic things instead of just how do I get this, you know, report out by Thursday.

Right, right.

So, so if somebody today said, oh, you know what, I, I've, I've got my corporate meeting scheduled with our executives, you know, what do you, what would you say to them, like thinking, like, I mean, I know you said, you know, obviously the people that are touching the ecosystem need to be in the room. But so many people don't think that way.

Yeah, no, it's, it's, I think one of the biggest challenges. There's two challenges here. One is people misunderstand what strategy is though. They, they think it's a goal.

Well, goals are part of it, but they're not a full strategy. I was doing work with, with a big in New York a couple of months ago and they said, well, we have a strategy. I said, great. I said it saves me time.

And I said, what is it? They said, we're going to raise our stock price by 8%. I said, well, that's a goal. Maybe it's a good goal, maybe it's a bad goal, I don't know.

But it's not a strategy. The strategy is the series of things you would do to get there. Yeah. Why they're good moves within the context of your current environment.

What's happening in your environment that would cause you to make these moves? How might people react to them? What resources do you need to do those? How do you. And no success.

When you see it, how are we going to keep score along the way and then who's doing what on this journey and how all those pieces fit together and they're like, ah, okay, you know, a vision's not a strategy. A mission is not a strategy. A set of values is not a strategy.

All those things are important and inform the strategy, but the strategy that you know, that full game plan. So that's problem one is just knowing what you're trying to do.

The second biggest problem, and you probably experience this a lot, is we mistake strategic planning for strategic thinking. A lot of times what we call strategic planning is a thinly disguised annual budget drill and it's bottom up. Everybody wants data.

Well, if you have data, we can only have data on the past or maybe the present. So it naturally drags your mind backwards. Whereas as I mentioned, strategies casting your mind forward into the unknown. It's about the future.

The future hasn't happened yet, so there's not really data for it. And these two things get confused.

And what you often get with what I call corporate programming or what a lot of people think is strategic planning is you get a bottom up assessment based on last year's baseline and then there's some modest improvement. People say, well there's our new strategy.

Like yeah, you're modestly improved over last year, which may be fine, but if you're really looking to transform the organization and move into a place of greater advantage, you can cast your mind forward, away from the data in the past, just a little bit more top down.

So if I can get organizations past these two hurdles, sort of opens up the aperture and everybody's like, oh yeah, let's start thinking what's happening in our market? What is our competition doing? Why are consumers behaving the way they're behaving? What changes are coming down the road?

Technology, everybody's talking, AI, how's it going to affect us? Those are the conversations you want to have when you're doing strategic thinking.

Right. And so the thing that just came out came to my brain and I really. And I, it's like, is, it's, you know, your, your goal versus aiming. Yes.

Like, like, you know, how are you. And strategy versus just aiming to something.

Right.

How am I going to get there, you know, you know, for. And I'll share a funny example of something that, that made me actually walk away from a company.

So when I was in magazine publishing, I was sitting in a room and I, I love consumer. Consumer. To my brain, consumer marketing is both left brain, right brain. Because you have to be creative and you have to be analytical.

So I loved that. That was like my, like, you know, I would geek out on econometrics, you know, whatever.

But when I'm sitting in this meeting and I, I'll never forget this. Like, it was just like yesterday.

I got the president of company on one side and the senior VP of sales and marketing on the other end of the conference table. CEO goes, I think we need to make a little bit more money. And the VP goes, we're going to raise the price.

You two should talk.

And I was, and, and then I said, and I'm sitting there thinking about this and I'm thinking, what? He's like, you want more money, you're going to raise the price. Have you thought about the implications?

Like, do you know that if you increase your, like, statistically speaking, if you increase your price by 10%, you're going to lose this number of customers would do.

They could both be right if they took the time to sit down and say, what would be the things that might link these two goals? So you're going to add additional features, you're going to go after new subscribers.

And even at the higher price point, people feel like they're getting something that's differentiated and then you can run models.

Right?

But yeah, I find that all the time people come in with a goal, it's often something that is uniquely suited to them. You know, the finance People finance goal and the marketing people have a marketing goal and the engineering people have an engineering goal.

And so on, the meeting up of these things and making sure they all fit together, that's when a strategy starts to emerge.

Right.

I was going to say, because those all need to come, to come together so that, you know, there's that crossover, right, where they all come together so that they're at the same. They're at the end point. They're all working towards the same future value that they want to have.

Right, exactly.

Which is quite interesting. It's quite interesting. So, so tell me, you know, you have had like this amazing career. You've. You've worked in government.

So when you're thinking about how that, like all of those pieces from CEO to corporate, does strategy differ?

You know, it really doesn't.

This is one of the themes of the book, which is that I'm a classically trained strategist, which in classic terms, we apply to the word itself comes from the Greek word for general. So strategies associated with military stuff. It's associated with, you know, nations doing their thing on the global stage and all that.

And, you know, I've been, I was a assistant secretary of state under Condoleezza Rice. So I get that world, right? She's a genius at the big picture. Go.

But that's just like the basic science, the applied science is applying thinking strategically to any setting. A sports team, a business, a nonprofit. And I worked with all of them.

The basic elements of strategy which we've been talking about, you just apply them to the. All the rest is X's and O's and you figure it out.

So for me, when I made the leap from the military and government into business, I came in with only. I came into the business world with only two skills. One is I knew how to think strategically. Where's this organization going? Why?

You know, how do we know who's doing what along the way? All that.

And I came in with leadership skills, which is now that we've established a direction, how do I get people to work together to accomplish something? And so that was it. I had no skills.

I had to learn all the business skills and running a business, including right on up through when I was a public company CEO.

But the basic tenets of how any human organization works, where are we going and are we going to work together to get there, that's the stuff of leadership.

Right?

And so, you know, people who are listening, if you could say to them, besides reading your book, yes, you know, what, what, what is Something that they could do today that will help them become a better strategic thinker, which will then, of course, help them be a better leader.

I would say, you know, just start to adapt, slow some strategic moments into your leadership life, which can be as simple as, let's talk a little bit about the future. Let's examine the environment in which we're existing and talk about what it means for the future.

Let's think about where are we positioned correctly or do we want to be positioned differently? What would a movement to the better position look like? And that can flow into everyday work. So it would be. Point of one.

The second thing is there's strategic activities in building an organization, scaling an organization among them. I would label developing other leaders. This is a real superpower leaders can access.

I tell people in charge, whether they're entrepreneurs or big company leaders, your job is not just to run the company you are. Your job is to create the company you ain't the company of the future. And so that requires thinking about the company you ain't yet.

And then it requires you thinking about firing yourself from your current job of running the company you are and hiring your new self to build the company you are not yet.

And that implies that you need to leave the company you are in good hands, which means you need to spend time coaching, developing others, you know, tell a story. In my last book, Leadership Book, this amazing CEO, and she had a mug on her desk, and on one side it said boss, and on the other side it said coach.

And when you came into her office, depending on what kind of meeting you were with her, she would spin the mug around. So you knew this was a coaching session or this was a boss meeting, which I thought was a really cool device.

I love that. That's really great. That's really great.

But. But what? She really internalized that she had both jobs, not just to run the shop, but to develop people to.

To help her do that so that she could keep growing as a leader and build the company going forward.

You know, it's. I absolutely love that. And so I, you know, I think, you know, one of the things that I see is that I, And I want to.

This is sort of a statement and a question at the same time. I think a lot of people forget that the word leader is to actually lead people to something.

Right, Right.

Like we are, you know, and so, you know, my question is, is as you. As. As we think of that, you know, what happens when people, you know, are in these companies and they just. They forget.

They forget that, oh, gosh, it happens all the time. I do a test with companies, which is, I'll talk to the CEO or the other top leaders. I'll say, do you think everybody's clear on the strategy?

Absolutely. We've hammered it out. We put it on our cards. It's posted on posters in the break room. Everybody knows where we're going.

I said, well, this is a testable proposition. Let me walk around and talk to people on this. Like, hey, did you hear about the new thing? Oh, yeah, I heard about the new thing.

How do you know the new thing when you see it? Bosses tell me, you know, people really struggle with. So you can never underestimate how much people are not on the same sheet of music.

And so I think finding ways to make sure that the direction of the company, the way it's going to behave, the things that matter, the things on which they're keeping score, the kind of culture that will be rewarded because it propels success, those things need to be really explicitly understood, rewarded when they happen, corrected when they don't.

And I think leaders really need to be kind of ruthless about this, you know, always making sure that, you know, the people can see what direction, the direction of the enterprise looks like when they bump into it in the hallway. What does it look like when they bumped into it, you know, our new strategy when you encounter it, what was it?

And something that you just said, too, is like, does everybody know this? And I think there's two things here that I think are slightly different.

You know, and so correct me if I'm wrong is, you know, do they know the strategy? Number one, what's like the new strategy? But also, what's the mission?

Yeah.

And so you said, like, it's posted on the. In the break room. Well, the missions should be like. And then. And to me, a mission statement is not something that you write in chisel in stone.

It's something that you need to. It's fluid. It needs to be. Yeah, it's needs to be changed. But. But mission and strategy are different. They're. They're combined.

They work off each other, but they're two different.

Yeah, yeah. A mission, you know, a vision. What you want the world to look like because you exist as an enterprise.

The values, how you're going to behave, what kind of things you reward around the place, and the mission, what you're actually doing and why you exist, what you hope to accomplish, those are all really important. And they inform a strategy. They kind of sit over top of it like rain clouds. And they feed it.

But the strategy is a more detailed game plan of all the different moves that will be made if it's ever out of sync with the mission or vision or values. It can be pretty obvious, right. But the strategy itself is a more detailed plan for how you're actually going to make the movement.

Right. In some ways it's like, it's like, what's the playbook?

And everybody almost needs to have that playbook, you know, like, you know, whether it's a copy that everyone's got. Okay, this is our playbook for right now, right? Like this is, this is our five year playbook.

And you know, echo, you in the marketing department, you've got this section, but you need to make sure that you're working with engineering or whatever, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, it's, it's. I, I find it fascinating because. And, and something else that, you know, that you said is, is that, you know, and I think it's.

And listeners, as you're hearing this, it's start now to think about the flow that you have.

Like get into the, that habit of, of thinking and vision and, and thinking about what the future is so that you can plan and get the people that are on in your, you know, you again, I hate the word employees, but get your team because those are, that's your team, right? Get them thinking they've got to be. They.

I will guarantee you the creativity will come out, you know, and the, the one thing that's coming out to my, that's like all of a sudden like, you know, jumping into my brain is the guy who created this flaming hot Cheetos. Right?

Right. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Everybody needs to be involved.

And I would say even outside of the enterprise, one of the things I coach leaders on is you have a lot of stakeholders. You know, you have your team in the enterprise, you have your customers, you have suppliers, you have seekers.

When I became a public company CEO, all of a sudden among my stakeholders were industry analysts, press, politicians, regulators. I was like, whoa, I'm a trained in any of those things. Right. But they were important stakeholders.

The clearer my strategy was, the clearer the purpose of the organization was, the easier it became for me to communicate all our actions to all these groups of stakeholders. And everybody felt more invested as a result.

So it lends a coherence to organizations that goes beyond your product or your services or something like that. It really cements why we exist and what we're trying to get done around here.

Right. You know, and it's something that you just, you know, you're thinking like, you know, those stakeholders, the people that.

It's the people that you're touching, the people that are impacting.

And it's also who are those people that have a perceived value of what your company is or what you were doing, need to be included in some way, shape or form? Because you might think that everybody thinks that your company is, you know, raging amazing, but in actuality, they have a different opinion.

Yeah, completely. Completely. I often will go, I'll test the companies and they'll say, why do people choose you over your competitors?

I'll say this, that I'll get a lot of great marketing feedback. I'll say, well, let me go talk to some customers. You know, why did you pick them?

I often don't hear the marketing back, which I hate to depress, you know, great marketing professionals, but I don't hear the advertisement back. I hear different things. And that's the kind of stuff that needs to be back, taken back and important.

You know, I'll make another point because something you said raised in my mind, which is another strategic activity. I think all leaders need to work in areas which is stakeholder management.

You know, we tend to spend time as leaders with people that are in close proximity to us or with whom we're really familiar or that work for us. And what leaders really need to do is make and cultivate relationships with stakeholders outside of their enterprise.

Because if you wait until you need a relationship, it's too late to format. And so I think I always tell people, I'm like, get out of the office. There's so much to do around here.

I don't care, you know, go to that industry happy hour. Go take your competitors to. Let my competitors. Yes, take your competitor to lunch.

You'll be amazed at how much they'll talk about, you know, just because they want to talk.

But get to know people outside of the company that can have some influence or impact on your future because you want to have a relationship with them, you know, when you're going to need it.

I am so happy that you said that. So I 100% agree. And I think that is so critically important.

And I actually just had a conversation with one of my really great friends who's a CMO of a company, and we were talking about how, you know, and I actually just.

I did a post on this, too, is that leaders like you as a person at a company, you need to be able to get yourself out of the company to meet other people, because no offense to companies, it's not like it used to be where you were employed by X company for your entire career. Right. So things happen, companies get sold. You don't know what's, you might not be in the C suite knowing what's happening.

And even if you are in the C suite, you might be there one day and all of a sudden you're out. But if you don't have those relationships, Right. It could take you years to find another job.

But if you have the, like, if you can pick up the phone and say, hey, John, Jacqueline, you know, whatever I, you know, we connected, this is where I am, whatever it is. And you built a relationship.

Right.

So critical.

Yeah. And I think that's the key thing. As you've implied, the best strategic relationships are non transactional.

Yeah.

They're not, they're not there. I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine there.

Those are, you know, I tell people you have three, I tell executives you have three buckets of relationships.

You have your, your personal network, which is great, that's like your personal board of directors, people that get, you know, you can give you advice. Then you have your operational network, which is the 10 or 12 people you need to touch every day to get your job done.

And that's kind of chosen for you. But your strategic network is up to you. And that's a set of people that you don't necessarily rely on day to day to be successful.

But you know them, they know you, you respect them, they respect you. They'll take your call, you'll take their call. They'll do things for you, you'll do things for them with no, you know, implicit reward that day.

But you just, you each matter to each other and that's. If you can build those kind of relationships, they always stand you in good stead.

So you, you know, you asked you what, what is a set of strategic activities other than planning for the company people can do in their lives? I tell executives, you know, build those leadership networks outside of your business.

Yeah. And it's true. So I, my post or my, I did a, I don't know if it was a post or wrote, wrote about it, whatever, but it was on that point.

But also don't hold your network to yourself.

Yes. Yeah, that's right. I think you actually gain power by giving it away.

Yeah.

There was a very famous woman, you probably heard her, Heidi Roizen in Silicon Valley. And Heidi became basically the relationship broker during Silicon Valley's formative years.

And she, you know, literally introduced Bill Gates to, you know, Steve Jobs and things like that. And she would have spaghetti dinners that she would make herself and her kids would be running around pajamas at her house in Palo Alto.

And everybody would come because Heidi was an honest broker. She would just say, you have to know Jacqueline, you guys have a lot in common. You get along. I could see ways you could help each other.

And so to be a relationship broker, to build those relationships is, is a powerful thing. And if you guard your network and refuse to use it, then it atrophies, right?

Yeah.

And so, you know, and I, and I think it's so important and I, so I feel like leaders, as you're listening, remember you, you're, you're leading people, you're trying to be strategic and by leading people to, and helping, you want to help those people in your fold also be strategic in where they want to go with their life. You're the leader, right? So to me, it's like help them be the best they, that they can be.

That's right. That's right.

I once, I was running a company once and I stood up a high potential program for, you know, our up and coming younger vice presidents who had extraordinary potential. And a couple of the older executives were like, gosh, what are you doing?

You know, you're, you're going to wake them up to their own potential and then they're going to leave. And it happened. A couple of them, you know, realized how amazing they were in the course of these, this training and they did leave.

And I said, don't, don't worry. They're going to be in our network forever and some will even come back.

But, but the people were viewing their high potentials as just a great worker as opposed to someone who could be developed and do more as if they were just a, you know, slower, smaller, slightly better smelling horse. Right. Just pull your wagon. And, and, and no, I, I don't, you know, in, in a knowledge economy, you can't treat people that way.

So I, you know, I'm for the more I've helped people unlock potential, the more I've been rewarded in the enterprises I'm leading, it always comes back. It's not just karma, it's just good business.

Right? So I'm sure you probably have read it, but Bob Berg wrote Givers Gain or Go Givers. Right?

So Bob was, was a guest on the podcast and his episodes coming out, but great. Like the whole philosophy, right, of being able to, to give without, you know, detaching from an outcome, like there's no outcome of the, you're not.

You're not. It's not a transactional give. Right. Just to give. Like, I want to help you. Who can I connect you with? This is exciting, right? Like, right.

I mean, that's like, to me, like, that spills my cup. John, I could talk to you for hours because I love this stuff. I love talking about leadership. I love talking about strategy and helping our leaders.

So tell everybody where they can connect with you. Find your book. Which I. I will also just say I will actually put a link to the book in the show notes too.

But yeah, you see the books on Amazon or wherever you get your or your books, all the various, every format, it's out now in audible. I think the audible, it should be popping out next week or so, but it's on Spotify and Apple Ibooks and all the rest of it.

And then my website's johnhillan.com and you can see some of the work I do there and some of the things I write about there. But yeah, it's great. I'm just, I'm excited, you know, to be on your show, first of all, but I'm also just excited to help bring other leaders along.

When I look out at the world, whether it's the business world or other parts of the world, I'm like, we need more people who are operating thinking about themselves as leaders, who are there to help others and help organizations. And I think that propels the whole human enterprise forward.

Yeah, you know, it truly does. It really truly does. So I. John, I have loved having you as a guest listeners, please do me a favor.

Click the link that's going to be in the show notes and get his book, go check out his work because he's truly amazing. And then please do me a favor.

If you have enjoyed this episode, please make sure you have hit subscribe and also share this episode with your business friends and colleagues, because that is so important. The more we can create better leaders, the better world we will create. So this is the Unstoppable Success podcast.

I'm your host, JaclynStrominger, and thank you, John, for being an amazing guest.

Thank you.