Today we look at how to encourage guests to promote their episodes. Host Dave Jackson opens the show by discussing the importance of reciprocity in the podcasting world, emphasizing that hosts and guests benefit from effective promotion strategies.

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Contributors:

Kim Newlove - The Pharmacists Voice, Perrysburg Podcast

Kris - Podtastic Audio

Kiona Nessenbaum - Birth As We Know It

Takeaways:

• Building a relationship with your podcast guests before the interview can lead to better promotion later.
• Make it easy for guests to share their episodes by providing direct links and images.
• As a host, please don't rely solely on guests to promote their episodes; it's not guaranteed.
• Offering your guests clear and simple promotional tools can encourage them to share your interview.
• Please tell your guests when their episodes will be released to help them prepare to share.
• As a guest, promise to promote the episode to increase your chances of being invited back.
• If you want them to share, the interview should be different than previous interviews.

Links referenced in this episode:

• schoolofpodcasting.com
• thepharmacistvoice.com
• perrysburgpodcast.com
• podcasticaudio.com
• birthaswenowitpodcast.com
• smartbusinessrevolution.com
• podnews
• This Amercian Life

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Question of the Month

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Question of the Month

Dave Jackson: 00:00:00

Today on the School of Podcasting, it's the last episode of the month, which means it's the question of the month.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:06

And so we're talking about what's the best practice when it comes to getting your guest or your host to promote your interview.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:16

Let's start the show, the School of.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:00:18

Podcasting with Dave Jackson.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:23

Podcasting since: 2005

Dave Jackson: 00:00:30

Thanking you so much for tuning in.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:33

If you are new to the show, this is where I help you plan, launch, grow.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:37

And if you want to monetize your podcast, my website is schoolofpodcasting.com use the coupon code listener when you sign up for either a monthly or yearly subscription.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:49

And so yeah, we always do this.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:51

We throw out a question and then you get a chance to not only answer the questions.

Dave Jackson: 00:00:57

So we all learn together, but you get to promote your website.

Dave Jackson: 00:01:02

And so I forget when I threw out the question of the month was what would be your question of the month?

Dave Jackson: 00:01:08

And Kim Newlove threw out this question and I listened.

Dave Jackson: 00:01:12

I'm like, oh, yeah, we definitely can talk about that.

Dave Jackson: 00:01:15

So take it away, Kim.

Kim Newlove: 00:01:16

This is Kim New love from the Pharmacist's Voice podcast, which you can find@the pharmacistvoice.com I also run the Perrysburg podcast and you can find that@perrysburgpodcast.com My question to you, Dave, is what are the best practices for asking a podcast guest to promote our episode?

Kim Newlove: 00:01:39

And on the other side of the coin, what should I offer to do to help the host when I'm the guest?

Kim Newlove: 00:01:45

It works both ways.

Kim Newlove: 00:01:47

Now, mentally, I picture all of my guests being excited for the exposure and the attention.

Kim Newlove: 00:01:52

But if they're anything like me when I'm the guest, I don't even know where the podcast host has advertised the episode unless they either tell me or I run across it.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:04

That is the problem.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:07

Now, a little bit about both of my podcasts.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:10

On the Pharmacist Voice podcast, we talk about pharmacy topics and careers so my audience feels connected to the profession of pharmacy and inspired to contribute to it.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:22

The website is the pharmacistvoice.com My other podcast is called the Perrysburg Podcast.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:30

We talk about what's in Perrysburg, Ohio and why people like to live here.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:34

I live in Perrysburg, Ohio.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:36

It is a great little town in northwest Ohio.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:39

The website is perrysburgpodcast.com thanks for the opportunity to ask a question, Dave.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:45

And thanks for everything you do for podcasters everywhere, including me.

Kim Newlove: 00:02:50

Happy podcasting, everyone.

Dave Jackson: 00:02:52

And as always, we'll have links to everybody's show in the episode description, but we're going to kick it off with Chris.

Chris: 00:03:00

Hey, what's happening?

Chris: 00:03:01

This is Chris of Podcastic Audio.

Chris: 00:03:05

You can find me@podcasticaudio.com.

Chris: 00:03:09

well, first things first, you need to do your best to actually promote the episode.

Chris: 00:03:13

Do not rely on your guest to promote anything.

Chris: 00:03:18

Being a guest on a podcast, there's no written rule anywhere that says you have to promote every single show you're on.

Chris: 00:03:25

And that frustrates us like podcasters, because we put the episode together, we have this amazing guest come onto our show, and we think that this big guest with this big audience is going to share the interview we just had with them.

Chris: 00:03:41

But it doesn't always work that way.

Chris: 00:03:43

If I'm a guest on someone's show, you better believe it, I'm going to share the out of your episode.

Chris: 00:03:48

But that's just me.

Chris: 00:03:50

Now, not everybody works the way I do, but the way I do it is that if a guest is on my show, I also promote it everywhere.

Chris: 00:03:59

I tag them in the post, I write them an email telling them, this is the episode.

Chris: 00:04:05

Here is the link to the episode.

Chris: 00:04:06

Here is a some artwork I made for the episode.

Chris: 00:04:09

Here you go.

Chris: 00:04:10

You can promote this any way you want, but I'm also going to tag you in every single post that's attached to this episode.

Chris: 00:04:17

And I do not expect the guest to actually promote the episode at all.

Chris: 00:04:21

It's nice if they do.

Chris: 00:04:22

It's wonderful if they do, but I know you know that it's not a guarantee, but make it extremely easy for them to actually pull this off.

Chris: 00:04:32

And if they don't do it, they don't do it.

Chris: 00:04:34

Don't worry about it.

Chris: 00:04:35

You should not have the survival of your podcast based solely on whether or not the guest you have on actually promotes the episode.

Chris: 00:04:44

In fact, I do know another show that told me he asks his guests that sharing this interview, this episode, is a requirement for coming on my show.

Chris: 00:04:54

He said that his show is so dependent on guest interviews that if they do not share the episode, his entire podcast crumbles and falls down.

Chris: 00:05:04

What kind of show is that to have?

Chris: 00:05:06

So go out there, interview your guest, and make sure that you are extremely respectful to them as the guest and as the host.

Chris: 00:05:16

Hey, I just thought of something right now.

Chris: 00:05:18

If you are a guest and you're trying to pitch yourself to be on as many podcasts as possible, one of the things you can say as a guest is you can tell the host, I promise I will share this episode out to all of my followers, guaranteed, stamped in writing.

Chris: 00:05:34

That may entice like certain podcast hosts to have them on as a guest.

Chris: 00:05:40

Because we do know not everybody shares the episode.

Chris: 00:05:43

So if you can promise that like in writing somehow, why not have them on your show?

Chris: 00:05:48

Hey, once again, this is Chris from Podcastic Audio.

Chris: 00:05:51

You can find me@podcastic audio.com and you keep on having your amazing podcast and I will catch you later.

Dave Jackson: 00:05:57

Thank you Chris.

Dave Jackson: 00:05:58

Yeah, we have a podcast rewind on the way and also I'm going to be talking about an absolutely horrible service that is pitching podcasts that referred to me as Judy.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:09

Hey Dave, this is Kiona Nesenbaum, host and producer of the Birth as We Know it podcast, which is a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:21

I interview birthing people, partners, providers, birth workers, and more.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:26

I encourage you to check it out.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:28

You can head over to birthaswenowitpodcast.com to listen to the newest story.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:33

Now, as a podcast producer who is currently editing episode 72, where all of my episodes are interviews, my number one suggestion for encouraging your guests to share their episode on your podcast is to develop a relationship with them and to make sure that that relationship is developed before hitting record.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:06:53

If you put in the effort to develop a relationship, the interview is going to go a lot better and when you ask them to share it, they will be more willing.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:07:03

The second thing that I do in order to encourage people to share their episode is once their episode is ready to go live, I send them a direct link to their episode page on my website.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:07:16

This is good for two reasons.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:07:18

One, they have direct access to their episode that they can listen to at any time, and two, it brings more traffic to my website because when they share that link with their family and friends, people are coming to my website to listen to it.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:07:33

And when it comes to the opposite side of the coin where I am the guest, I actually encourage the host of the podcast that I am interviewed on to share a link with me so that I can put a direct link to the episode of me on their show on my website, which again is beneficial in two ways.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:07:52

It's beneficial for me because it brings more traffic to my website and it's beneficial to them because my audience will see their podcast, which then encourages traffic to go to their show.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:08:03

I will also direct my social media following on Instagram or Facebook to their podcast once my episode is live.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:08:11

And that's it.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:08:12

Those are the things that I would suggest to do or at least start out with and go from there.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:08:17

If anybody is interested in learning more about the Birth As We Know it podcast, you can head over to Birth as we know it podcast.com and if you're interested in sharing your birth story or experience on the podcast, you can fill out the guest request form.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:08:33

All right, Dave, thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:36

Thank you.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:37

I was on a show last Friday, and when we ended up, I said, be sure to let me know when this goes live.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:43

I will be happy to promote it.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:45

Cause I do things like this.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:48

In case you missed it, it's time for a podcast rewind.

Dave Jackson: 00:08:55

I got to hang out with John Cochran on the Smart Business Revolution podcast.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:01

We were talking about secrets to building a thriving podcast.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:05

And so here he asked me about growing your show.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:09

So let's talk about growing your audience.

Ira Glass: 00:09:11

Another common topic for people.

Ira Glass: 00:09:13

There's a.

Ira Glass: 00:09:14

There's a lot more, I think, tools now than there were, you know, when.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:18

You started, so 17, 18 years ago.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:21

You know, there's pay per click, there's ads, there's appearing on other podcasts, there's.

Ira Glass: 00:09:25

Social media, many others.

Ira Glass: 00:09:27

What are your thoughts on that today?

Dave Jackson: 00:09:30

Yeah, the big one is because a lot of people think social media.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:34

And I don't know about you, but when I get sucked into YouTube shorts, I'm just going to the next, the next, the next, the next.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:41

And if somebody's like, hey, I have a really cool episode.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:44

You should listen to it here.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:46

And then I'm just like, okay, well, that was boring.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:48

Next.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:49

You know, it's like, I'm usually don't.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:50

I'm not in the mood to stop and do whatever I'm doing and go watch a podcast when somebody's doing that.

Dave Jackson: 00:09:57

So I always say, try to get your show in front of people who listen to podcasts.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:02

Like, just today, I got something in the mail from somebody trying to reach out to authors for author, something like learn how to sell more books or something like that.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:13

And he did have a QR code.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:15

But I just remember thinking, I am so far away from my phone or a computer right now at the mailbox, I'm like, wow, this guy's.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:21

Maybe he's thinking that nobody else is doing this.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:23

I'm going to stand out.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:24

But I'm always like, if you can find shows that are like yours and that you can deliver value to, then absolutely go on that show and talk about your stuff.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:36

Don't be a giant commercial, but bring value to the conversation.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:40

So that's definitely one being on other podcasts.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:43

Thank you, John for having me on.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:45

I'll have a link out in the show notes.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:47

And since we're kind of talking about social media, I'm listening to the book Earn It Unconventional Strategies for Brave Marketers by Steve Pratt.

Dave Jackson: 00:10:55

He's one of the founders of Pacific Content and he tends to kind of echo what I feel about social media and why it kind of more or less most of the time doesn't work because this is what you sound like on social media.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:11

Hey everyone, I have a new podcast.

Chris: 00:11:12

TikTok video or YouTube episode.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:15

I am begging you to leave the.

Chris: 00:11:16

Place where you have chosen to be.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:18

And the context you're in right now.

Chris: 00:11:20

Leave here now and open the app.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:22

Where it is more valuable for me and my content.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:25

And getting back to our main topic today, I had told John when I was on his show, I was like, hey, let me know when this goes live, then I'll be happy to promote it.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:35

So he sent me a note two days ago.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:38

Hey Dave, great news.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:40

Your episode on the Smart Business Revolution podcast is now live.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:43

Here's the link and it's@smartbusinessrevolution.com and then a really long URL.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:49

That's fine.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:49

I'll put that in the show notes.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:50

We are promoting it across all our channels, including Spotify, itunes.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:54

Ooh, that's not good.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:56

That.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:57

That would be Apple.

Dave Jackson: 00:11:58

John, just for the record, which probably means this is an old form, but anyway, social media and many more, we know your friends, colleagues and network will love it.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:07

So we appreciate you sharing it.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:09

To make it really easy for you to share, we created a sentence in the PS if you copy and paste it into an email on social media, it was an honor and pleasure having you on the show.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:19

And so here's a sentence you can easily share on email or social media.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:24

I love being interviewed on the Smart Business Revolution podcast where I shared great lessons and stories.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:31

You can check out my featured interview here.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:34

Okay, so you know, so number one, he gave me a link to his website.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:38

By the way, we talked about that earlier.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:41

On the second answer, always direct them to your website and I'm going to give you some more tips in a second on some just how I would do this right after this.

Dave Jackson: 00:12:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:02

So here are some tips to getting people to share your interview.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:06

So if I'm interviewing someone who is a big shot smarty pants, I might look at them and go, hey, thanks Mrs.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:12

Smarty Pants for coming on the show, when I get this done, what's the name of your social person that I should send this to?

Dave Jackson: 00:14:22

And they might say, I don't really have a social person.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:24

I just have me.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:25

And then you go, great.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:27

So just this email, and what that's basically doing is ever so politely kind of hinting that we expect you to share this.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:34

Now, you could.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:35

They could easily say, send it to Cheryl, and then Cheryl will never send it out or whatever, but it's kind of insinuating we expect you to promote this.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:44

So the one person is like, you don't come on my show unless you share it.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:47

I'm like, you know what?

Dave Jackson: 00:14:49

You sound a little desperate.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:51

And I'm with Chris.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:53

Like, if you don't have guests, your show just cracks and crumbles.

Dave Jackson: 00:14:57

And so as the host, I might ask the guest, who should I send this to?

Dave Jackson: 00:15:02

And then what I recommend is exactly what John did.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:06

Hey, your episode is out.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:08

Here's a link to it on my website.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:11

And then on your website, right on that episode, there should be links to Apple and Spotify minimum.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:17

That way, if somebody goes, wow, this was a really good interview.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:20

I like this show, Bink.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:22

They can click right there and follow the show.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:25

So figure out who you should send this to.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:29

And then the other thing you can do is attach an image.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:33

And my buddy Courtney Elmer had a tip, and I was like, ooh, that's really good.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:38

And that is so many times we make artwork that matches our brand.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:43

So in my case, it'd be that kind of blue and yellow thing.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:46

And Courtney said, if you really want them to share it, then maybe you should have the graphic be in their branding colors.

Dave Jackson: 00:15:54

And I was like, that's one of those little things that you go, oh, that is so simple and yet so easy.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:01

And of course, Courtney does the insider secrets to a top 100 podcast.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:07

I'll have links to that out in the show notes.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:11

And so, again, make it as easy as you can as the host, but as a guest.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:18

What I've started doing is asking people, when do you think this will be public?

Dave Jackson: 00:16:25

And I don't really stick them for an exact date.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:26

Sometimes they'll know.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:27

They're like, oh, three weeks from now on the 27th.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:30

Awesome.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:31

Put that on your to do or reminder or things like that.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:34

And look, I am guilty of this much more than I wish I was.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:39

But there are times when we're scrambling at the last minute, we put out an episode, and we don't tell the guest when Tom Webster, come on Tom Webster was on my show.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:51

He was promoting it on Social before I'd even told him, hey, Tom, it's out now.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:55

Part of that is because Tom is just awesome.

Dave Jackson: 00:16:57

And if you haven't checked out his book, the audience is listening.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:01

Another great book on podcasting, but I am not as good as I want to be when it comes to alerting my folks that, hey, your episode is ready.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:12

And as a guest, I am finding that there are other people who unfortunately share that characteristic of forgetting to tell the guest that, hey, the episode is live.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:22

While I'm here on this subject, you do know that POD page, the company I work for has it so that it not only do you have the guest fill out their information on a form, it will automatically tag that information to the episode when it's released.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:38

And if you're on the Elite plan, it'll notify the guest.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:42

How cool is that?

Dave Jackson: 00:17:43

So, as a guest, I just want to make sure the episode was published.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:47

I'm not like all like, hey, you said it was going to be on this day and it's not.

Dave Jackson: 00:17:50

I just want to make sure you're actually going to publish it because I unfortunately have a bad habit of not letting my audience or not my audience not letting my guests know, hey, I published this and that's horrible.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:06

That is definitely something I plan to do much, much better moving forward.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:11

We're going to talk about constant improvement over the next couple months here, but that is something that I don't do as as well as I wish I do.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:19

So that is that.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:20

So what I've been doing is asking people, when do you think ballpark this will be published?

Dave Jackson: 00:18:26

Because I go back and there are times that people apparently have the same problem I do, and that is the episode is published and they never let me know.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:35

And so then I will actually post it on Social and tag them and say, hey, thanks so much for having me on the show.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:44

This was a great interview, blah, blah, blah.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:46

So I do that.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:48

The other one I kind of want to do is just to make sure.

Dave Jackson: 00:18:52

Oh boy, how can I say this without sounding like a jerk, but realize a there may be the option that maybe my interview didn't resonate as much as I thought it would.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:05

I don't think that's the case because I do a pretty decent job of listening to their show to make sure I'm a good fit before I go on it.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:12

But in the event that somebody inadvertently wasted two hours of my time to be interviewed and then they didn't publish it, I Just want to make a mental note, that's all.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:23

So that's why I'm kind of double checking on people and their publishing schedule.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:28

Yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:29

Now, when I wrote the book profit from your podcast, I mentioned how advertising making a living from podcast with just podcast advertising works for less than 10% of people.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:43

And recently, a very popular show, this American Life, said this on their show.

Dave Jackson: 00:19:49

Now I am playing this as it was reported by James Cridlin on podnews.net.

Ira Glass: 00:19:55

Hey there, podcast listeners.

Ira Glass: 00:19:56

Ira here.

Ira Glass: 00:19:57

There have been some changes in the podcast industry.

Ira Glass: 00:20:00

Basically, the ad market has dropped.

Ira Glass: 00:20:03

It's harder to run a podcast by selling ads, and it's affected nearly everybody who does a podcast.

Ira Glass: 00:20:08

In the last few years, we've watched friends at podcasting companies all around us as they made massive staff cuts.

Ira Glass: 00:20:15

Some companies have gone under, and because of these changes in the industry, this coming year, we expect our ad revenue to be a third less.

Ira Glass: 00:20:24

A third less than what we brought in just a few years ago.

Dave Jackson: 00:20:27

And while it's always sad to hear someone losing their job, I worked for a company called New Horizons Computer Training Centers back in the day.

Dave Jackson: 00:20:39

And we had probably eight different trainers when I got hired.

Dave Jackson: 00:20:45

And when I got let go, we were down to two.

Dave Jackson: 00:20:49

And a lot of that was, well, don't you know, we're New Horizons.

Dave Jackson: 00:20:54

We've been doing it forever, and we charge more than anybody else when it comes to learning Microsoft Word, but we've been doing that for 20 years.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:04

Well, lynda.com came out, couple other things, and in the end, they were charging too much, and they weren't paying their teachers too much, I can tell you that.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:15

But things change.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:17

And my favorite clip from James is he said this towards the end of that report.

Kiona Nesenbaum: 00:21:23

We would note that the staff page.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:24

On this American Life lists 36 people on the team.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:29

Now, this American Life is an amazing podcast, and they ship people all over the world to do, you know, reporting and stories and go out there and stick a microphone in the wind so we can have authentic wind in the background or whatever the heck they're doing that's costing so much.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:45

But there are companies when the what I refer to as stupid money came into podcasting, and they're like, here you have 27 people listening to your show, have 50 million.

Dave Jackson: 00:21:58

You're like, what?

Dave Jackson: 00:21:59

Okay, it was dumb.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:02

And so these people expected the dumb money to keep coming in, and then it dried up.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:07

And so I hate to say this name because it just turns off so many people, but Joe Rogan, who got 200 million, reportedly, for his latest contract.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:20

It's Joe, it's Jamie and somebody else, some unnamed person that does the booking as reported by someone who was a guest on the Joe Rogan Show.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:33

So that's straight up truth, three people.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:38

And Joe does his research.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:40

I'm assuming Jamie does some of that, too.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:42

But and the other thing you have to keep in mind, and this is why I hate mentioning Joe Rogan, step one to doing a podcast like Joe Rogan is to be Joe Rogan and you're not.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:54

And it takes about 15 years to do that.

Dave Jackson: 00:22:57

But my point is, maybe in some cases the reason people are blaming ads isn't that the ad revenue isn't enough to cover it, but maybe the fact that they're spending way too much money.

Ira Glass: 00:23:11

Our program is produced today by me and Blue Chevany with Alex Bloomberg, Susan Burton and Julie Snyder.

Ira Glass: 00:23:16

Our contributing editors for today's show, Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margie Rotkin, Elise Spiegel and Consulari.

Ira Glass: 00:23:20

Sarah Vowell mixing up today by Jared Ford and Catherine Raimondo.

Ira Glass: 00:23:24

Production up from Anna Martin.

Ira Glass: 00:23:25

Our technical director is Matt Tierney.

Ira Glass: 00:23:28

Our website, this American Life.org where you can listen to over 600 episodes of our show for absolutely free.

Dave Jackson: 00:23:33

And as I said, I hate to hear anybody lose their job, but when the income comes down, so do the expenses.

Dave Jackson: 00:23:42

And that's just a fact of business, unfortunately.

Dave Jackson: 00:23:46

And so I wish them the best with this premium version.

Dave Jackson: 00:23:51

From what I have seen, somewhere between 1 and 5%.

Dave Jackson: 00:23:55

I usually just tell people 3% of your audience will pay for some sort of premium content.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:02

But I just say this to all the people, like, I'm going to start a podcast and I'm going to get advertisers.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:08

I'm going to quit my job.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:10

It's not that advertising is bad.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:12

It's that you need more than advertising.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:15

You need multiple streams of income.

Dave Jackson: 00:24:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:26:59

I really do just want to take a second to say thank you so much for checking out the show.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:04

If you're a subscriber, thanks for sticking around.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:06

If you're not a subscriber, school of podcasting.com subscribe, or if you want, slash follow, it's six one way, half a dozen the other.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:16

And I want to point something out here just to show you how we can kind of focus on things that really are big to us, but sometimes are not.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:27

Have you noticed that I got a new chair because it does this?

Dave Jackson: 00:27:31

We see if I get it to do it.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:33

Of course.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:34

Yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:34

Did you hear it you hear the creak, there's a little creek and I have to bust out the WD40.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:39

But every time it creaks, I'm like, oh, no, it's a creek of a chair.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:45

I will lose millions of subscribers because my chair went.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:50

So don't do that.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:52

Focus on delivering great content.

Dave Jackson: 00:27:54

People will overlook the creaking chair if you help them with whatever it is they need help with.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:00

So, speaking of getting help, school of podcasting.com use the coupon code listener that comes with not a 7, not a 14, not a 21, but a full 30 day money back guarantee.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:12

Why?

Dave Jackson: 00:28:12

Because I want you to join and not have to worry about, hey, is this a good fit or not?

Dave Jackson: 00:28:17

Well, come kick the tires.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:19

I'll give you your money back on day 29.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:21

We're good to go.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:25

Schoolofpodcasting.com join I'm Dave Jackson.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:28

I help podcasters.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:29

I can't wait to see what we're going to do together.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:33

And until next week, take care.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:35

God bless.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:36

Class is dismissed.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:38

And there might be one bonus tip.

Dave Jackson: 00:28:55

All right, the first tip is if you want your guest to share your interview, you have to do an interview that includes something that they haven't talked about before because otherwise they're just going, hey, audience, you know those same four stories that I keep saying?

Dave Jackson: 00:29:09

I said them again here.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:11

Click to listen.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:12

And then the other thing I wanted to point out, and the following is just my opinion.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:17

I've never used this service, it's called POD Pitch.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:22

And I wondered why I've been getting bad pitches more than usual, of which one, calling me Judy.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:30

And look, I start every show with I'm Dave Jackson and I love the fact that when you go to their website, which I'm not going to say, you'll have to Google that.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:41

It says, you know, when you go to see how much it costs, they ask for your email and then say, no spam, guaranteed.

Dave Jackson: 00:29:49

But yet their whole business is to scrape a bunch of emails from a database and then via the magic of AI, they will pitch people.

Dave Jackson: 00:30:02

And somehow the AI has figured out that, you know, my show, building a better Dave would be a great pitch because I've had absolutely zero guests on it.

Dave Jackson: 00:30:14

Yeah.

Dave Jackson: 00:30:15

So, you know, again, lean into your humaneness.

Dave Jackson: 00:30:20

Don't turn your the, you know, interviews are about building relationships.

Dave Jackson: 00:30:26

Let's not hand the relationships off to our good friend AI, shall we?