Michigan's Rock and Roll Legends Museum: The Heart of Rock and Roll is still beatin'
Episode 207 • 11th April 2025 • Total Michigan • Cliff Duvernois
00:00:00 00:26:00

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Gary Johnson, a lifelong educator and music historian, is the founder of the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame and the curator of a stunning exhibit at the Historical Museum of Bay County. From teaching Michigan’s first junior high rock history class to curating world-class displays, Gary's passion for rock and roll has inspired generations.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • The founding and evolution of the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame
  • Iconic Michigan artists featured in the Hall of Fame, from Motown legends to garage rock icons
  • How Gary designed and installed museum exhibits using original posters, memorabilia, and rare artifacts
  • The deep connection between cars, music, and Michigan culture
  • Behind-the-scenes stories like the infamous “Fake Zombies” scandal and the influence of Frankie Lymon on Motown artists

Exhibit Location:

Historical Museum of Bay County

Address: 321 Washington Avenue, Bay City, MI

(Located next to Bay City’s historic City Hall building)

Website:

www.michiganrockandrolllegends.com

Facebook: 

Michigan Rock and Roll Legends

Museum Website:

Historical Museum of Bay County 

Transcripts

Gary Johnson:

I think it just goes back to when I first became interested in rock and

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roll I had the opportunity to see Elvis

Presley's first national TV appearance.

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What a mind blowing thing that was.

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He was so different from the typical

singers and entertainers you saw on

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television during those years that it

just, it really piqued my interest.

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Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone and

welcome back to Total Michigan where

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we interview ordinary Michiganders

doing extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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Some people chase money.

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Others chase fame.

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But then there's those rare

souls who chase something deeper.

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And that would be passion.

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Not just to keep it to themselves,

no, but rather to share it, to light

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a spark in someone else, to turn their

love into a gift for the community.

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Few things stir the soul

quite like rock and roll.

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It's raw, it's real.

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And for decades it's been the

backbeat of Michigan's identity.

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From Motown the metal.

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Garage bands to global icons, our state

has shaped the soundtrack of generations.

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Today, that spirit still pulses with

every note, every lyric, and every memory.

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As Huey Lewis once sang, the heart

of rock and roll is still beating.

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And here in the mitten state,

it's being kept alive by those

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who love it enough to share it.

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To help us explore this is Gary Johnson,

founder of the Michigan Rock and Roll

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Legends Hall of Fame, located in Bay City.

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Gary, how are you?

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Gary Johnson: I'm great, Cliff.

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Thank you so much for coming

to the museum and doing a show

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on, the Hall of Fame exhibit.

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Cliff Duvernois: So why don't you

tell us what is the Michigan Rock

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and Roll Legends Hall of Fame?

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Gary Johnson: it's basically a tribute to,

The amazing legacy of, uh, Michigan's rock

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and roll artists and their recordings.

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right now, as of this year we

have 129 artists and individuals

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that are in the Hall of Fame.

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And we also have 160 recordings by

Michigan artists that are enshrined

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as legendary Michigan songs.

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Cliff Duvernois: Now

when we're talking about.

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Michigan Rock and roll.

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We're talking about legends,

we're talking about inductees.

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Why don't you give us like a spattering

of names that people would recognize?

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Gary Johnson: of course we have, a

whole bevy of the Motown artists,

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that are known around the world.

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We're talking.

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Smokey Robinson and The Miracles, Stevie

Wonder, Marvin Gaye, the Temptations,

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the Four Tops, Mary Wells, Diana Ross,

and The Supremes, Edwin Starr, the

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Marvelettes, Martha and the Vandellas.

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You can go on and on

with the Motown sound.

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Uh, I think probably that

might be the music genre that.

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Most people around the world

associate with Michigan, but on

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the rock and roll side of things,

of course we have Bob Seger.

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Cliff Duvernois: Yes.

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Gary Johnson: Probably the number one rock

and roll guy in, the state of Michigan.

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Mitch Rider in the Detroit

Wheels, grand Funk Railroad.

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the mc five, the Stooges.

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we have the White Stripes, the Amboy,

Dukes, the rationals, SRC, all these

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bands, Dick Wagner and the Frost.

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many of these bands were really

big in Michigan and were were

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regional successes, maybe not so

much internationally, although I am.

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I'm constantly amazed, Cliff, on the

contacts that the website, which is

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www.michiganrockandrolllegends.com,

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the visitors that we get all over

the world that are interested

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in the history of Michigan rock

and roll, it's mind blowing.

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Cliff Duvernois: It is.

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And I definitely wanna make sure

we take a moment to explore that.

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But before we do, Gary,

where are you from?

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Where did you grow up?

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I was born and I grew up

in Bay City, Michigan.

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Nice.

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Now, did you spend all

of your life in Bay City?

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Have you traveled?

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Did you go anywhere different?

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Gary Johnson: My wife Lynn and I

currently live in Essex Valley,

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which is right next door to Bay City.

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I attended college, undergraduate

at Central Michigan University.

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Got my master's degree from Michigan

State University in East Lansing.

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I've been an educator.

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All my life.

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I taught, for 35 years, primarily at

the junior high level, and most of

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those at Kramer Junior High School

in Essex v and that's where I, I

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developed a, a rock and roll history

class for junior high students,

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which I believe is the first one.

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It's a multimedia rock

and roll history class.

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I think it's the first one that

was ever done at that level in

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Michigan, following my retirement.

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I spent 19 years teaching rock and

roll history classes or offering

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rock and roll history classes through

the OSHA Lifelong Learning Institute

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at Saginaw Valley State College.

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And, well, it's now Saginaw

Valley State University.

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since we spent a great deal of time in

New Jersey, I have often, I, I have also

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offered a number of rock and roll classes.

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At, Rutgers University Ollie Program

and I had the opportunity of doing

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one on, uh, Bruce Springsteen.

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Okay.

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In his hometown of

Freehold, New Jersey, which

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Cliff Duvernois: was pretty cool.

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just to take a step back here,

what was it about education that

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attracted you to that field?

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Gary Johnson: well, I always liked

y oung people, and I think that's

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really important to be a teacher,

especially at the lower levels.

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I've always been interested in learning

things, so it seemed like an ideal match.

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I, I was always interested in, athletics

and, and participated in sports on

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many different levels over the years.

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That gave me an opportunity to coach

at the junior high level, which I

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did for a number of years as well.

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I guess that's about it.

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It's been great.

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I mean, my wife was also a teacher, we had

vacations off together and summer breaks.

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Most of the time we were taking

classes at the university,

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but we could do that together,

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Cliff Duvernois: you know, it was fun.

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Yeah, it was great.

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And then I guess the next question

is, is, and it almost seems to be

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redundant, but I wanna explore this

a little bit more, because you really

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have wrapped your passion into music.

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I love music as well.

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You will not see anything in

my house that looks like this.

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So what was it that really piqued

your interest in music To go

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about developing a class and

course in, in multimedia and Yes.

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Gary Johnson: I think it just goes

back to when I first became interested

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in rock and roll this was when I was

nine years old I would've been the

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early winter of 1956 and just by chance

I had the opportunity to see Elvis

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Presley's first national TV appearance.

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And Cliff, I can't tell you

there's a piece of history.

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What a mind blowing thing that was.

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He was so different from the typical

singers and entertainers you saw on

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television during those years that it

just, it really piqued my interest.

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And from that point on, I, I went out and

I, I'm sure probably my parents bought

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me, my first Elvis Presley records.

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They were at.

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78s.,

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Only had this little victrola,

with a big steel spike needle.

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Yep.

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And that's when I, played my

first rock and roll records.

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And from that point on, uh, that

just opened the door to a bunch

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of other artists during that time,

like Chuck Berry, Little Richard,

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Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly and the

Crickets, Ricky Nelson, Fatz Domino.

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I mean, it was just like, holy cow.

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it was just, it just

opened up this whole world.

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Yeah.

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All of a sudden it kinda went from

black and white to technicolor you

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know, when it comes down to music.

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Yeah.

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just from that point on,

it was kind of my thing.

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I grew up in a family

where no one played music.

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And all my friends were kind of like me.

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They were interested in playing baseball

and basketball and football and so on.

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So I.

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rock and roll music and collecting

records was kind of my thing.

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And it was all the way through, college

and, you know, I kinda went from 70 eights

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to my parents buying me my first 45.

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Yeah.

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record player.

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And then having that, throughout

high school and then switching to.

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Albums rather than 40 fives and con

continued collecting music in the form

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of albums and then switching again when

CDs came in and took over from, vinyl

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recordings and, till today where actually

I belonged to a streaming service.

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And so I now my phone is like the world's.

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biggest or one of the world's biggest

record collections just filled with

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playlists of people I like to listen to.

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it just never goes away.

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It's a constant

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Cliff Duvernois: source

of enjoyment for me.

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Certainly.

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Now, when you're teaching these

classes right, and you're, you're

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exposing essentially all these young

minds, to music, what was that like?

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Watching their reaction when you're

pulling out that vinyl album, putting

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it down and saying, you know, here's,

this song from Smokey Robinson.

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Yeah.

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let's listen to it.

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Gary Johnson: It's unusual

because, you know, growing up with

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it, you think everybody knows,

the names of artists and so on.

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Yeah.

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And they don't, you know, it's just like,

wow, you're, you're opening a whole new

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page and I can never, I'll never forget.

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Playing them.

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Frankie Val in the Four Seasons, which

was one of the groups that I covered in

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the history of rock and roll, and having

them listen to Frankie Val's vocals and

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actually the kids broke out laughing.

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Yeah.

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In class.

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it was so unusual.

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That sound was such a big sound

when Lynn and I were in high school,

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Guys singing in falsetto and so on.

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but it was pretty foreign to the

kids that I had in my music history

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class at, Kramer Junior High School.

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That's wonderful.

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Now

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Cliff Duvernois: you've retired.

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I.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And, well, I retired.

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Retired, but, well, you're

retired from teaching.

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Yeah, from, well even,

well, I'm still doing that.

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You know, it never goes away.

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Let's fast forward now to early 2020s.

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All of a sudden, for some reason

or another, you are starting

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to put collections on display.

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For people.

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Right.

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You were talking about, was it Scotty's?

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Gary Johnson: Well, it started out,

at a classic car company called the

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Bay City Motor Company, and I had

started the, I had started the webpage

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and I thought, there it would be nice

if there was some sort of physical

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presence, so they sold classic cars.

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So I went to their dealership.

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And explored the idea, the relationship

between cars and rock and roll,

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which, which is evident very big,

especially during rock and roll's

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first decade, and they had a showroom.

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And I said, you want to give

me the walls to the showroom.

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I'll put pictures and album covers and

a little bit of memorabilia up here

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and you can use that, and you put a,

a Corvette sitting in the showroom.

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You got all this rock

and roll stuff around it.

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It made for a real nice match.

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Yeah.

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So that went on for probably about 13

years until they went out of business.

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that's when.

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I was given the opportunity of

moving that display to Scotty

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Sandbar, which is a music venue

on the middle ground in Bay City.

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probably the best, music venue we have

in Bay City in terms of having a nice

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stage and a dance floor and so on.

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And Scotty says Live

entertainment every weekend there.

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So it's really a nice match there,

actually better than the car company.

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So that's still

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Cliff Duvernois: going right now.

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You made a comment before, and I wanna

make sure we go back and hit on it.

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You were talking about how it was on

a website, so were you taking these

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collectibles that you had, taking pictures

of them, putting them online, talking

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to 'em, because you made a reference

before at the beginning of the interview

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about people from around the world.

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finding your website.

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Gary Johnson: Yeah, it was, primarily

the website would've been the biographies

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of all the artists that are Oh, okay.

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The Hall of Fame.

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So if you come here and you look

at a picture of Sonny Bono or of,

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Mary Wells or whoever it might be,

you could go to the website and.

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Read their biography.

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It also, it got me interested in

digging into rock and roll stories.

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mostly in Bay City, but also

around Michigan as well.

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And I came up with some pretty interesting

stuff that I'm very proud of, you know?

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Right.

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For example, one, uh, that I

worked very closely with a, writer.

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Who at that time was based in New York.

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His name was Daniel Ralston on, uh,

an intriguing story that came out

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of Bay City called The Fake Zombies.

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And this was a promoter who had a company

called, Delta Promotions in Bay City

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who came up with the idea of putting.

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Imposter groups out to play

concerts as some very well

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known bands that had broken up.

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Okay, like the zombies from England,

like the animals from England.

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And he even tried it with a group

called The Archies, which was really

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a studio band portraying the, the

figures from the Archie comics.

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And, uh, just an, a totally fantastic

story, that was turned into actually an

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eight part podcast by Daniel Ralston that

was just, on iHeartRadio this past year.

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Cliff Duvernois: And now at some point,

because you talked before about you

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having this small display, you were asked

about potentially having an exhibit here

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at the historical museum in Bay City.

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Right.

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Talk to us about that.

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Gary Johnson: It was pretty scary.

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I had never really curated

anything before, and now you're

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talking about a very large space.

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So that's going to involve, not only the

pictures of the inductees and the list

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of the songs, which really doesn't take

up all that much space, but you have

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to find some other things that would be

interesting enough for people coming to

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the museum to capture their attention.

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So that started, quite a search for things

our centerpiece right here is the Frankie,

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the original Frankie Lyman tombstone.

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As well as, contacting collectors

and poster artists and, also,

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painters and so on that could.

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Come up with something that

would be intriguing for people

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that are visiting the museum.

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It took a lot of work,

I'll tell you, Cliff.

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But it was, it was very much a

collaboration and I very much enjoyed

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working with the people in the galleries

that participated in doing the framing,

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the sign companies that designed all the

great signage that we have in the Hall of

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fame, the individual artists and so on.

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And also, The poster artists

like, Dennis Warren, who we talked

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about who contributed so many

of his works here to the museum.

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It was fun.

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It was a lot of work and

a very big challenge.

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I think the biggest challenge

I ever undertook in my life.

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Cliff Duvernois: For our

audience, we're gonna take a quick

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break and thank our sponsors.

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When we come back.

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Uh, Gary's gonna walk us through

a couple of those challenges.

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What you can expect when you come here

and see the rock and roll exhibit, and

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also how you can find this great place.

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Once again, my name is Cliff

with this with Botto, Michigan.

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I'm talking to Gary Johnson, who is

the founder of the Michigan Rock and

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Roll Legends, Hall of Fame, as well as

the curator of this fantastic exhibit.

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And we will see you after the break.

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Hello everyone.

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Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michiganders

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doing some pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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Today we're talking with Gary

Johnson, the founder of the Michigan

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Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame.

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We are sitting in this beautiful exhibit.

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I can tell you that the volume of work.

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That has must have gone into

this and setting this up.

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Display.

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I mean, we're talking multiple

levels that are in this building.

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It's absolutely extraordinary.

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It's absolutely beautiful.

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Before the break, you made a comment

about like some of the challenges

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that you had to go through.

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I'd like to explore some of those

challenges of putting this together.

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Gary Johnson: One of them

obviously is framing everything.

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So we have some very

valuable posters here.

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in order to display them, they had

to be framed and, They also had to

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be attached to the wall in a certain

way so that they were museums.

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Safe that we can't have somebody

just going and lifting one of these

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things and heading out the door.

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So that took a lot of time

and a lot of planning.

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Exactly, how we would, display the posters

in an attractive way and, you know, it was

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quite a bit of work involved and getting

the frames done and up on the walls.

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so that was a big challenge.

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also, the guitars that we have here.

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Were loaned to us by concert

promoter, Chad Cunningham.

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Chad, and the foresight, I guess,

to purchase a guitar every time.

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One of these big name acts like

the Beach Boys or, uh, Alice

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Cooper, you know, various people

that would come, and perform and

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have them autograph the guitars.

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Chad had these displayed in his

offices at Prime Brothers Furniture

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and he was kind enough to loan

us these to put up on the walls.

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So again, thinking about how could

we display these things safely and

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securely on the walls, in the museum.

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And it's just you got these bare

walls and you're trying to visualize

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how are we gonna display these

things in an attractive way, for

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the patrons that come to the museum.

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Yet another challenge.

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we had the original cement blocks

that had the hand prints and the.

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the autographs of the Bay City

Rollers when they came to Bay City

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in 1977, and how do we display these?

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Right?

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And, Miles Ruski of Ruski signs

came up with that kind of unique

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idea of displaying them on the

wall, that we have in the hallway.

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Miles also came up with the idea of

the signs, that, Explain the story of

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the original Frankie Lyman tombstone.

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We have a tombstone, but just to

have a tombstone sitting there

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in the middle of the room without

telling the story right, which is

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absolutely one of the most fabulous.

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And interesting rock and

roll stories of all time.

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you know, we had to come

up with a way of doing it.

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So we, miles came up with a certain

kind of design for the signs that looked

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like wings almost, where we could tell

Frankie's story as well as the story of

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the trial and the tombstone and the great

influence that Frankie Lyman and the

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teenagers had on Motown, Motown artists.

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Very, very much.

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I.

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Like Smokey Robinson,

Diana Ross, and so on.

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Very influenced by the fact that you

have this teenage boy singing songs.

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And if you look at the Jackson five,

the way they originally came out in

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1969, in 1970, they are like a carbon

copy of Frankie Lyman and the teenagers.

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You had Michael, the little tyke with

a great voice and all the dance moves

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just like Frankie Lyman was with the.

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Majors.

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Yeah.

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It just, uh, you know, it was

great stuff and it's singular.

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All that, you know, is, is part and parcel

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Cliff Duvernois: of, putting

something like this together.

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Sure.

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Because one of the things that

I really wanna highlight as I'm

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sitting here, because this feels

more like modern pop culture art.

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Than anything, but just to highlight

the fact these are original posters.

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Yes.

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:

These are not something that you found

online and printed out in nice color.

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These are like, and some of these

posters in here I could imagine

380

:

are probably 60, 70 years old.

381

:

Yeah.

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That and

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Gary Johnson: you know, we came

by these in, in interesting ways.

384

:

actually the.

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:

Iggy and the Stooges poster

that is, in the, stairwell.

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And this was a poster that was put

out, by Electra Records when they

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:

released their first album in 1969.

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:

a woman in California had that poster

that had been rolled up in her closet

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:

for, well, would've been over 50 years.

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She heard about what we were doing.

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Actually mailed me that poster.

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:

Oh wow.

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:

And we were able to, with the skill of

re Golden and Golden Gallery, to take

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most of the wrinkles out of that poster

and frame it and put it up on the wall.

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:

That posters probably were over $2,000.

396

:

just to give you an idea of what we've

got, and, you know, we have several

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posters autographed by Carl Lundgren,

another, Michigan Rock and Roll Legends

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:

Hall of Fame, inductee poster artist.

399

:

we've got autograph posters by

him, by Gary Grimshaw as well.

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:

you know, some pretty good stuff here.

401

:

Cliff Duvernois: It is.

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:

And this, this really highlights a

pocket of time where when artists would

403

:

come out with an album, number one.

404

:

The album itself was a work of art.

405

:

Yes.

406

:

Right.

407

:

It, it wasn't just a picture

of the band sitting there.

408

:

That seems to be like every album

out today is just a picture of, of

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:

a singer or the band, but a lot of

the times it was its own art and it

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:

would come with things like posters,

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Gary Johnson: yeah.

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:

Cliff Duvernois: Et cetera, that

you could hang on your wall.

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:

Yes.

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:

That these people, for some reason

or another kept very safe and secure,

415

:

and now we get to enjoy it today.

416

:

Gary Johnson: Yes.

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:

And you know, and that's one of the,

the things I was saddest about, I guess,

418

:

when vinyl albums originally were, I.

419

:

Kind of taken over by the CD

is the loss of the album art.

420

:

Now albums are coming back,

but it's not quite the same.

421

:

Right.

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:

And they don't sell enough, I think,

to really spend a great deal of

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:

money on the album art anymore.

424

:

But, yeah, that, that's

pretty fascinating.

425

:

The album art and the

photography, that was part of it.

426

:

And of course, as I showed you earlier,

we had a Bay City native, Tom Burt.

427

:

A friend of mine who sadly passed

away probably 20 some years ago,

428

:

but Tom, did a lot of album covers.

429

:

He, he was a.

430

:

A man who made his fortune shooting

photographs of cars in those glossy

431

:

books that would be in the dealerships.

432

:

But his passion was music and he almost by

accident, got into shooting album covers

433

:

for people like Ringo Starr and Bob Seger

Neil Diamond, Gordon Lightfoot, It's

434

:

pretty amazing what he did over the years.

435

:

Cliff Duvernois: Gary, if somebody

is listening to this, they

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:

wanna come and check this out.

437

:

'cause this is, this is ever growing.

438

:

This is, this is organic and I'm loving

this, but they wanna come check this out.

439

:

Where can they find you?

440

:

How can they find you?

441

:

Gary Johnson: Well, the museum, the

Historical Museum of Bay County is

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located at 3 21 Washington Avenue, right

next to Bay City's Missi most historic

443

:

building, the city hall building.

444

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And the, by the way, the museum does

offer tours of City Hall, which is

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:

pretty fascinating in its own right.

446

:

the museum has its own website.

447

:

Just Historical Museum of Bay County

also, I have a great deal of information,

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:

photographs, videos, what have you about

Michigan Rock and Roll and the museum at

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:

my website at www dot Michigan Rock and

role legends spelled out completely com.

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:

Cliff Duvernois: Uh, Gary,

thank you so much for taking

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:

time to chat with us today.

452

:

Really do appreciate it.

453

:

Gary Johnson: Well, thank you Cliff.

454

:

It was so great meeting you and

I'm so happy that, uh, Total

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:

Michigan was interested enough in

the museum and the display to have

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:

you come here and talk with me.

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:

Cliff Duvernois: No,

this is, this completely.

458

:

Blew away my expectations when

I walked through the door.

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:

So it's a credit to what you

and your team have done here.

460

:

Well, thank you very much.

461

:

We always love to hear stuff like that.

462

:

For our audience, you can always

roll in over to total michigan.com

463

:

and click on Gary's interview and, uh,

get the links, that he mentioned above.

464

:

We will see you next time when we

talk to another Michigander, doing

465

:

some pretty extraordinary things.

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:

We'll see you then.

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