Hi there and a very warm welcome to Season 5 Episode 29 of People Soup – it’s Ross McIntosh here. 

And P soupers - that little teaser at the beginning was from the very end of my chat with Andrew Sewell. We'd finished the formal interview and he reflected on my observation of his creativeness coupled with his doubt - when I was coaching him about 8 years ago. For me, hearing him talk about the shift in his demeanour and his sense of lightness was such a beautiful moment. And there's also a top tip there for any fellow podcasters who are listening - always hit record asap and leave it running, even when you've finished the formal interview.

In this second part of my chat with Andrew Sewell - we focus on his brilliant book - "The Overthinker's Guide to Life".

You'll hear how the seeds were planted and also find out how many self development books Andrew has actually read. He wanted his book to be different and I do believe he's achieved his mission, it's super useful - in fact we start the episode with my review.

You'll also hear about Andrew's approach to leadership coaching, how he asked for feedback on the draft book when he was less hampered by his "comparisonitis". You'll also hear his cracking takeaway, called the state of mind elevator.

People Soup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioural science, in a way that’s practical, accessible and fun. We're all about sharing the ingredients for a better work life from behavioural science and beyond.

There is a transcript for each episode. There is a caveat - this transcript is largely generated by Artificial Intelligence, I have corrected many errors but I won't have captured them all! You can also find the shownotes by clicking on notes then keep scrolling for all the useful links.

• Buy the Book at Overthinkers Anonymous!
• Connect with Andrew on LinkedIn
• Sign Up for Andrew's weekly email, Think Less Thursday, on his website

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PART 2 TO EDIT Master Andrew Sewell

[00:00:07] Thank you. That was super useful. You were saying the word doubt, like I'd forgotten that head space I was in when I was talking to you. It was really interesting. I'm not saying I've overcome this doubt like entirely, but yeah, you can tell by my demeanor that I'm in a different place.

[00:00:22] Absolutely, that's a good word. Demeanor. It's like your, posture and your There's a lightness.

[00:00:46] and PeeSupers that little teaser was from the very end of my chat with Andrew Sewell. We'd finished the formal interview and he was reflecting on my observation of his creativeness coupled with his doubt when I was coaching him about eight years ago. For me, hearing him talk about the shift in his demeanor and his sense of lightness was such a beautiful moment, particularly as he's now seeking to share that with others.

[00:01:25] you'll hear how the seeds were planted, and also find out how many self development books Andrew has actually read.

[00:01:36] It's super useful and in fact we start the episode with my review. You'll also hear about Andrew's approach to leadership coaching, how he sought feedback on his draft book when he was feeling less hampered by his Comparisonitis. You'll also hear his cracking takeaway, called the State of Mind Elevator. [00:02:00] PeopleSoup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioural science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun to help you glow to work a bit more often.

[00:02:30] You'll find all the links in the show notes and early bird rates are still available.

[00:02:47] Reviews are in for our last episode, which is part one of my chat with Andrew. And remember, you don't have to post your reviews on the socials, you can also send them to me on WhatsApp. Like this PSuper did. .. They said, love this episode so much, I definitely identify with overthinking. Fabulous insights.

[00:03:23] So please do keep listening and subscribing, sharing and letting me know what you think. If you make some noise about the podcast and our guests, we'll reach more people with stuff that could be useful.

[00:03:45] we're ranked as one of the top 2. 5 percent most popular shows out of 3 million podcasts globally. So not too shabby. Thanks again for all your support. Let's see if we can keep making that noise and get even higher in the ranking. Enough [00:04:00] excitement. For now, get a brew on and have a listen to part two Sewell.

[00:04:25] Yeah. Yeah. It was my birthday two days ago. And the debt that the idea was to finish this by my birthday, which I've pretty much done, so I've been proofreading it. For the last couple of days and next week, the digital version will be on sale next week on my website. So yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:46] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

[00:04:56] and peace supers as usual, Andrew hasn't heard this yet. So here we go. My review of. The Overthinker's Guide to Life. Andrew has written a self help book that is truly helpful.

[00:05:36] You've created an accessible, beautifully written guide to a core part of the human condition. You've woven together great sources from neuroscience, psychology, business, and wider reading and research with your highly relatable writing style. whilst being open about the chronic distress you experienced in your advertising role.

[00:06:02] Oh, thank you. That's really lovely. I appreciate it. Thanks for us.

[00:06:24] It's like a conversation with you. I absolutely love it.

[00:06:34] Well, you've bloody nailed it, man.

[00:06:56] So I create these two sort of characters Or you know things in your mind so it was absolutely key that I was authentic in writing this book or it would have been like It wouldn't have served its purpose I think what I didn't mean to do any of this like it wasn't deliberate It was a lot of it was intuitive and a lot of it was trusting my intuition Especially in the first two months.

[00:07:32] Writing book - poss intro

[00:08:01] And so I was thinking, what would I have liked to have read on that commute? So dividing it into sort of bite sized daily chunks. Was one of the reasons for that. I was like, Oh, you could do, you could read that in 20 minutes and like get something quite good from it. So it was, I was almost thinking of myself seven years ago as the ideal reader.

[00:08:30] Hmm. I agree. And I think, my goodness, I don't know about you, but the people I speak to in organizations, whether I'm working with groups or individuals, everyone is feeling that There's kind of too much to do, too little time. I've got a life outside of work where I don't want to be overthinking about my life in work.

[00:09:01] Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm a leadership coach now, so I've coached a lot of people in group and individual settings. They will experience these issues, as you say, there's not, yeah, it's a common problem to say the least.

[00:09:33] I think I would guess that the majority of people have some level of overthinking and quite a lot would say it's something that hinders them significantly in their working lives.

[00:10:08] I think the word relentless is... It's absolutely key. It feels like you've got a never ending to do list and there's no end in sight and that's just, you know, obviously a product of the way the economy is set up and the way organizations work, but it seems to be getting faster and faster you need to learn some advanced strategies to be able to cope with it I would say or remove yourself entirely a lot of it for me is to is to Get into your body get out of your head and into your body and just that basic grounding and presence practice But there's also tons of other stuff you can do.

[00:10:57] I think the seed was planted go back many years ago so I've sort of I always had the instinct that at some point I would write a book in my life. I think I tried to write some kind of personal development book, well I know I did, when I was about 30. But I made it like a pastiche. So I did like a stand up comedian pretending to be a self help expert, writing a self help book.

[00:11:56] And I thought I could probably do that if I tried. So I gave myself a [00:12:00] very specific thing. And then obviously it's sort of, that was good as in it got me an okay first draft that didn't really work structurally, but it got me a lot of words on pages. And then after that, it was just a process of what is this really?

[00:12:24] Hmm. And tell us, tell us a bit more how it's organized. Cause as I went through it, I did it in less than 28 days because this scheduled interview was approaching, but I really felt it was kind of like a, like I said, in my review, an incremental and supportive and gentle guide. So how did you, how do you arrive at that structure?

[00:12:46] I think because it felt the most manageable for people to understand and apply. yeah, this is interesting actually. Why did I arrive at that structure? I've read at least a thousand of these personal development books, so I absolutely know how this stuff works Virtually all of them I've read. And then I've never done any action based on the book I've just read. Right? So you kind of, that was almost a joke. How can I write a self out book that actually encourages people to actually take some action after they've read it? so, in a way, I've written this book to be read twice, like you read it, it's a really easy read.

[00:13:37] And it's like almost choose which of the daily practices most resonate with you. So you could do an incrementally step by step, or you could go, I'd really like this, like it's divided into six sections broadly. So there's like headspace stuff, which is around, you know, dealing with your thoughts.

[00:14:13] And then there's a deeper section on your like inner overthinker. So that's more of the psychological principles and the stuff on neuroscience and various psychological models and gives you a bit more depth. It's an invitation to explore those. theories more deeply but it gives you enough that it's useful as well as a section and then there's a section called authentic self which is about like helping you reflect on where you show up like as you want to show up and where you sort of still might hide your light under a bushel or might be doing things that aren't really serving you so that's the most sort of challenging section, if you take it seriously, some of those reflective questions are quite deep and deliberately challenging. And then there's something called home run, which has helped to design, to put all that stuff together. And it's like encouraging you to take action and do something creative or something that you didn't even something that the strap line is create something you didn't think was possible. So the way I've written this book in January, I didn't think it was possible to write the book that I've written now.

[00:15:22] That's a kind of summary.

[00:15:35] Yeah. Yeah. I might have nicked that title from you. I've called it the Life Lens, which is a better title than the Actimatrix. It's more down to earth.

[00:15:54] I've used it in my leadership coaching work. And it's very often a really good [00:16:00] way to turn abstract concepts into practical action because people get it immediately. And, um, yeah, it's one of the things that people keep coming back to. So I would say that's, it's, it's one of the most useful things I've, I mean, I'm not an ACT expert, but I've read a decent level.

[00:16:18] yeah, absolutely agree. A side note that's just my, my geekiness. How did you arrive at like the fonts and the colors and the spacing? Is that just your natural experience from being a copywriter for years?

[00:17:16] I think because I've worked with. Designers and art directors for 15 years, almost by osmosis, I've learned the principles of design. And with the help of something like Canva, which sort of makes it easy, I thought, oh, this is a good way for me to just do my version of this book rather than anybody else's.

[00:17:49] Hmm, I absolutely agree. I think it expresses your creativity, but it also makes it stand out. It's not. So many words to a page. It's, it gives you, it [00:18:00] creates that space for you to think as well, I think.

[00:18:21] So, so the book goes live next week, but have you had people reviewing it for you? Oh no, I've reviewed it as a, in preparation for this interview, but have other people been reviewing and giving feedback and stuff? How's that been?

[00:18:57] They really enjoyed it. People who were coaches said they would recommend it to their coaching clients. People generally sort of reiterated what you said, like that it was really fun and engaging and practical, like it was a really practical thing. Like there's another book on overthinking called Soundtracks by John Acuff, which is probably my favorite book on overthinking. And somebody reviewed it said, Oh, this is like a practical version of soundtracks. And that was like a really big compliment. I think we have similar writing styles. It's very conversational. It's very like someone in a room talking to you about this. And I think that's where the similarity comes in. His book's more in depth research.

[00:19:50] Comparisonitis

[00:20:05] I think that was a key, key difference to how I would have responded to stuff in the past. So when I was a copywriter, again, it was hard work a lot of the time because I was being a perfectionist. And I was also comparing myself to the other writers in the team. Some of them had been to like Cambridge university.

[00:20:50] I just thought, I know what this is and I'll stand by my decision. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but it's definitely aligned with my sort of next stage in life of, you know, doing something meaningful, doing something true to me, but also. Helps and serves the other people who resonate with it.

[00:21:27] Yeah, absolutely. I think that, I mean, I think that ties in with the fact that I've done meditation for quite a lot of years now, so that sort of, it's more than mindfulness, that sort of grounding meditation has helped me get more in touch with that sort of intuitive instinct, I would say, and I trust it more.

[00:22:05] I'm trusting that in myself, it applies to my creativity as well. So I'm trusting that instinct, but also having enough vulnerability to share that instinct, that idea with the world, knowing that it's like. Me, like, un uncensored, which makes you feel vulnerable, because if it gets, you know, criticized then they're really criticizing me there.

[00:22:42] Wow. And, and what sort of clients do you find yourself working with these days? Is it a whole mix or?

[00:23:12] I'd like to do more with technology, actually start ups. That would be interesting, but yeah, quite a range of clients I would say.

[00:23:37] And as an alternative, I would say I can bring a curiosity and a naivety to my questions rather than assuming what I know about pharma is the same as what they're experiencing in, I say, a leadership role in pharma. does that resonate with

[00:23:57] My coaching - bringing a grounded presence

[00:24:42] you? So I'm guessing, I'm guessing with your, your kind of blended career now, you're not looking to escape.

[00:25:26] I mean, that sounds really privileged, but like, if I, if I like the person and I find it fun and engaging, I know I'll do a good job. So I just trust that basically.

[00:25:58] it can be a bit [00:26:00] nebulous, but I know exactly what that means. And it just makes trust yourself in the present moment and be open. Be open to what you're feeling as well as what you're thinking, and don't try and stifle what you're feeling, just experience it honestly, genuinely.

[00:26:28] Yeah, yeah. So like I say, it was like running a marathon. So the mile 20, which was about three months ago, There was definitely a moment where I hit a wall where I'd fulfilled my original goal of writing a hundred pages So I'd written about a hundred and something pages of stuff that kind of worked It isn't too dissimilar to how the final version was But there was like a fundamental problem with the structure like the structure didn't work And I know from writing that like a structural problems can be the artist probably fix so that made me Think help.

[00:27:20] But I was kind of just went all in on this, that really simple 28 day structure. I just thought I'll just write this as 28 days and that'll work because it's super simple as a structure and it kind of. Yeah, that made, that freed me up again to to start writing again because I knew what I had to do.

[00:27:51] Brilliant. And how does it feel knowing that you'll press the button to go live next week?

[00:28:08] literally,

[00:28:10] Excitement,

[00:28:30] I mean, there's so many personal development books out there, but I think because this is my voice by definition, it's different to other stuff.

[00:28:52] absolutely. Yeah. the concept of the window of tolerance came into my mind, you know, that Dan Siegel thing. So it's how much excitement, anxiety can you tolerate? And the idea is this window widens the more experience you have. So I think this is the next step of the widening of my window of tolerance.

[00:29:28] I think something that isn't in the book, but which I use quite often in my coaching is. the concept of the state of mind elevator. So this is to assess and become aware of where your thinking is, where your state of mind is. So if you think of the top of the elevator or the lift in English as a penthouse and that's when you're clear headed and in the zone and calm and you know Connected and compassionate all of the good qualities you want to be so that's like the top floor And [00:30:00] then the basement is the opposite.

[00:30:19] Don't get me wrong. So just as a first step to become aware of where you are in that elevator, that lift. So are you on 10 or are you on floor five or are you in the basement? And then it's almost like. The act of self awareness is curative in a way in itself. So even just become aware of that state helps the next step.

[00:31:04] And then it's about going to the book and choosing whichever strategy you want to, to move or to implement or to think about, so the, the elevator metaphor, I think is a good thing as a takeaway.

[00:31:28] Absolutely. That's the idea that I mean, in an ideal world, that's what I would love it to be.

[00:31:45] Oh, thanks so much, Ross. It was a total pleasure. It was a genuine, um, fun experience. Thank you.

[00:32:12] .

[00:32:30] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:33:28] I'm so glad we're still recording because that's going to go in the main body. What you've just said, that's brilliant.