Anastasija grew up in post-Soviet Lithuania, got a green card at 18, and spent years bouncing between Columbus, London, Edinburgh, and Norway before eventually landing back in Ohio and becoming a somatic therapist and yoga teacher. We talk about growing up post-Soviet, the green card bureaucracy, and how a business trip to Columbus turned permanent once the pandemic hit.

(This episode was originally released on 9/23/2025.)

Learn more about Anastasia's practice and sign up for one of her classes at: www.sijasomatics.com and follow her on Instagram @anastasija_katcyna.

Please show some support for the podcast and get access to some extra content by subscribing to the Patreon page: http://www.patreon.com/onefjef

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You can also call the podcast and leave a voicemail at 1-669-241-5882 and I will probably play it on the air.

Thank you for listening, please do it again, but in post-Soviet Lithuania.

Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.

Hola, mis amigos y amigas.

It's Jef, your parasocial friend Jef.

Your charming, interesting, funny, confusing parasocial friend Jef Hello.

How are you?

I hope you're thriving as always.

Am I thriving?

I think I am thriving.

I think I am.

I still really enjoy my new apartment.

I've had this lingering, like, cold, congestion thing for the last week or

two, and I am not sure if it's because there's more pollution in the area

that I live in now or if it's because I just have a cold of some sort.

I'm hoping that it's the latter, but I kind of have a feeling it's,

like, a combination of both the pollution and a moderate cold.

So, you know, send some good vibes my way because it's not that I'm sick.

I'm just, like, congested and, like, I don't have the energy

that I did two weeks ago.

So, so there you go.

Anyway, enough about me.

This is the second re-released episode of onefjef, and it, like

the last one, is a good one.

Anastasija Katcyna, I hope I pronounced that right.

She tells me in the episode how to pronounce it, but I

forgot, so that's my best shot.

I think it's right.

Anyway, Anastasija is a fascinating human being, and I met her because

she was one of my favorite yoga teachers in Columbus, Ohio.

And it feels appropriate to re-release her episode now, not only because

it's one of my favorites but also because it's an expat story.

Anastasija was born in Lithuania, in post-Soviet Lithuania, that is, and

emigrated to Columbus when she was very young, uh, and made it work.

But it's a longer story than this, and you can hear all about

it in the interview that follows.

So I really enjoyed my interview with Anastasija, and I really enjoyed

re-listening to it a few days ago, and I think that you will too.

So without further ado, here's my interview with Anastasija Katcyna

from September 23rd of 2025.

I will remember this.

Oh, it's good to know.

See?

I will.

You know?

Maybe, like, in 10 years I'm gonna be having, like, many, one else or, you know.

But, but I will remember this one 'cause this is a new experience.

Oh, well, I'm glad.

And this is not type of experience of like, well, you know, I'm not being

expert- Yeah, no, I- … on something.

Yeah.

I'm just being a human with- Yeah … all my flaws and- Yeah … you know, all

my, all my stuff, just like you are.

That's what I want the thing to be.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is episode 17 of onefjef.

17 is a prime number, the sum of the first four primes and the

only prime between 16 and 18.

In numerology, 17 reduces to eight, linked with ambition and success, and in Italy

it's considered unlucky because 17 can be rearranged to vixi, meaning I have lived.

Have you lived?

Are you living now?

If you're listening to this podcast, you are, of course, living in the sense that

you're existing as a being on this planet.

But are you really living?

If the answer is no, perhaps it's time for a change.

Hello, my friends.

I hope you're thriving.

Since I got back from my road trip, I've been a bit overwhelmed I feel

like I'm at a turning point of some sort in my life, which has opened

the door to lots of possibilities and decisions and so forth, which is

exciting, but it's also stressful.

I'm no stranger to making drastic changes in my life.

But at 51, the idea of a drastic change feels a bit more daunting than it did

when I was, like, 29 or 32 or even 44.

We all get stuck in our ways as we get older, and I think this more than anything

is why I need to make a big change.

I lived in Columbus for about seven years, which is quite longer than I

imagined I would, although I'm not sure how long I imagined I would.

And since I got laid off earlier this year, I've had this nagging

feeling that it's somehow time to go.

I think that's why I've been traveling so much this year.

And this feeling was, was reinforced in many ways during my road trip.

And since I've been back, there have been several signs which indicate

to me that the universe is, like, agreeing with this nagging feeling.

And when the universe is giving you signs, I feel like it's best to

heed them, particularly when one of the signs is a crazy landlord who

is growing increasingly unhinged.

But I digress.

As always, thank you to my new and continuing Patreon subscribers.

You are all wonderful humans.

I did put up a bonus episode just for my Patreon subscribers.

I put that up this morning, and if you'd like to hear that and also

see the pictures from my road trip and also help support the podcast,

please do go to patreon.com/onefjef.

For as little as $5 a month, you can help support the show and

get a bunch of extra content.

Perhaps not a bunch of, but you'll get some extra content.

I don't know how you quantify a bunch.

Everybody defines it differently, I imagine.

But you will get extra content that nobody else gets to hear

except for you, you special humans.

Patreon.com/onefjef.

Today's guest is Anastasija Katsina Is a somatic therapist, educator, and

yoga teacher whose work integrates somatic experiencing, breathwork,

movement, and expressive art.

She holds a master's in public health and has training in somatic movement,

dance and movement therapy, Katona yoga, and trauma-informed modalities.

Her focus is on helping people feel safe in their bodies, attune to

nervous system cues, and heal through embodiment rather than only through talk.

I met Stasia in a yoga class about a year ago.

I was initially struck by her unique accent, which seemed somewhat out

of place in Columbus, let alone in a yoga studio in Columbus.

But she quickly turned into one of my favorite yoga teachers, both

in this city or any city, really.

Her classes are unique and challenging and fun in a way

that's kind of hard to describe.

If you get a chance, I highly recommend taking one of her classes.

She also has a fascinating life story, which you'll hear in this episode.

She grew up in post-Soviet Lithuania, and then she somehow

ended up here in Columbus, Ohio.

It's a story of looking for yourself in different places and different

people, and then eventually finding yourself in yourself.

It's a story that I very much relate to, and I think we can

all relate to it in some way.

I really enjoyed this conversation with Stacia, and I hope you will too.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for being here.

Here's Anastasija Katsena.

I hope I pronounced that right.

Apologies if not

I'll be honest, I have, like, avoided, like, when I, when I come into your

yoga class, I kind of avoid saying your name because I don't wanna butcher it.

Mm. So I'm just kinda like, "Hey." Hey.

Exactly.

So can you tell me how you actually say your name?

Because I- So I'm gonna give you a few versions.

Oh, God.

Why are you doing that?

I only want- Give me, just give me the best one.

Well, I can give you the best one, uh, between my friends and my family- Okay

… which is a short version, and it's Nastya.

Nastya, that's easy.

All right.

Yeah, that's it.

What are the other- We're done.

I, now I need to hear the other one.

The other one is Anastasiia.

Anastasiia.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So think about as, like, nice to see you.

Right.

Anastasiia.

Oh, that's good.

It rhymes well.

Yeah, yeah.

I would've, I would've done, like, Anastasia, and you

probably get that all the time.

Yeah, and that too.

Yeah.

It's, it's, uh, more of a, like, South America- Right … uh,

pronunciation, Anastasia.

Anastasia.

And what's your last name?

How do you pronounce that?

Kacena.

Kacena.

And where are you from?

Lithuania.

Lithuania?

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

And, uh, let me tell you how you got on my radar.

Um- I was doing a, like a f- a free one-month thing at GO last

year Uh-huh … at Go Yoga.

Yeah.

And, uh, you know, like s- some of the teachers were okay, but I was going

like every single day at the time.

And then one day you were, like, subbing for somebody, and I was like, "Oh, there's

an interesting teacher actually teaching here I'd never…" And then I was at one

of the… I guess it was a couple months after that- Mm-hmm … 'cause I had come

to a bunch of your classes there, and then it was a couple months after that,

we were at a, the sound bath thing.

Mm-hmm.

And I walked in, and you pointed at me and you're like, "I know

you." Mm. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah." Yeah, that's right.

And, and then we- It was a home, home sound bath.

Right.

Yeah.

And then we figured out that Emily, uh, is a mutual connection, so weird, small town.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Columbus is very small.

It is.

The longer I'm here, the more I, uh, yeah, realize that.

Uh-huh.

For better or for worse, I suppose.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I still don't know if it's better or for worse.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't either.

I think that we share similar feelings about where we live right now.

Are you from Columbus?

No.

I grew up in Cleveland.

Okay.

Um, and then kinda lived around the world.

Lived in Korea for a little bit, lived in London for a bit.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and then went, lived in Savannah, Georgia.

Mm. Went to school down there, and then was in New York for 10 years.

Mm-hmm.

And then I moved here about six years ago for a job-

Mm … that I lost during COVID.

Mm-hmm.

So now I'm trying to figure out what I wanna do next.

Okay.

I'm presently unemployed.

This is why I have time to do a podcast.

This is how it all starts.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

I mean, I'm already shopping for houses 'cause this is a money-maker.

This is … I can feel the money rolling in.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, how did you end up getting from Lithuania to Columbus, Ohio, where we are?

Um, so this is my second time here, so I kind of moved to Columbus twice.

Wow.

So it's definitely some karmic… for sure.

Something's, something's drawing you here.

Why?

Right.

Why?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, first time I came, um, gosh, I was 18, and, uh, I got a green card.

Okay.

So my mom got a green card.

I got a green card because I was under 21.

Okay.

And then we just… At that time, it's like 2002 I mean, like, I think

flip phones are still the, you know, like- Yeah … we don't have a social

media- Right, right … yet, right?

So everything is slower- Mm-hmm … and, uh, you know, getting documents

and, you know, there's a lot of…

There's, uh, many steps in order to get even the green card.

There's probably more now.

Probably, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Or opposite, they just simplified everything 'cause, yeah.

Right.

And, um, yeah, so and we just had w- w- I didn't, I literally didn't even have

a, you know, clue where we're going, so we were supposed to go to Florida.

But then the company that we found, uh, they said there was no space

for us to stay and to work because you need somebody provide you with

work- Uh-huh … and a place to stay.

So whenever you enter the country, you need an address, but if

you don't have anyone, right?

So there you go.

So Columbus, Ohio.

Did you leave Lithuania for…

Was there a reason that you left?

Oh, no.

No.

I mean, it was just green card.

Just green card.

So you're kind of looking for- Okay … opportunities.

I'm just graduated from high school, and I mean, I had nothing

to lose, so I just end up going.

Well, my mom actually told us, "Go there." How was it growing up in Lithuania?

Fun.

Okay.

Now that I look back- Right … absolutely.

Sure.

Yeah.

Sure It was a lot of fun.

It was hard for m- m- my parents- Right … for our parents.

I didn't know any better.

How was it, how was it hard?

Well, you know, what I remember, it's Soviet and then post-Soviet times.

Right.

And that's usually when, you know, that's when…

I didn't really see my parents much.

Oh, okay.

So there was a time when, uh, Soviet Union collapsed, and everyone, everyone had

to just go and just make money, hustle.

Right, right, right.

Hustle, basically.

You're either hustling or you're hustling.

There's no other way.

And your parents figured out how to hustle?

Yeah.

My mom, my mom figured out quite quickly.

She was- Yeah, I was in Russia, like, two years after the, the Soviet

Union collapsed, and it was just corruption, and mafia kind of was-

Yeah … the rule of the day at the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was a lot of that, uh, kind of, um, you're basically, uh, lawless kind

of experience because the government, you know, there is transition- Right

transmutation- Right … you know, transformation.

Right.

Right?

So people would just take advantage of weak people.

Like they do.

Always.

Always.

Always.

Gosh, you traveled a lot.

Korea, London, Russia.

Yeah.

Iceland, I just learned.

Well, that was just, like, that wasn't living.

That was just visiting.

But yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I have a… I've been trying to get… Like, I'm unemployed, so I said no

I'm trying to get a, a remote job so I can kind of do the n- digital

nomad thing because- Mm-hmm … I'm 51, I'm unattached, I have no kids.

What am I doing here?

What am I doing?

Y- yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like- I ask myself the same question.

But you, but you have a partner, so that's something, right?

I mean, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's like every single situation has its pluses and minuses.

It sure does.

It sure does.

It's, you always compromise.

Yeah.

If it's not with your internal voice, then with the- Yeah

… people around you, you know?

I always feel like I'm kind of in- A hurry Mm-hmm

like, my kind of MO is, like, I'm, I'm, I'm… And it's a thing I always have

worked on and am working on, but, like, patience, 'cause I feel like we've only

got this one, this one life, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I don't feel… And I feel like I gotta, I gotta do the stuff, right?

I gotta live the thing.

Um, and I feel like that is why I get mad at people while I'm driving.

'Cause you're interfering with my life.

You're, you're taking my time away.

This is your hypothesis.

This is how I can justify it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll go… Yeah, so doing therapy on Monday.

Um- Do you think it's related for, um, like, a lot with the age

and just, you know, transitioning into the other half of century?

I think I've already… I mean, believe me, poss- I- I've always been like

this, so I think it's not really that.

I do think that, um, at a certain point, I don't know, it was probably, I don't

know, five years ago- Mm … after I'd moved here, I always kind of was

feeling like I was living, and maybe you can relate, maybe you can't, but

I always felt like I was living for, like, some future moment- Mm-hmm

you know, that was coming.

Mm-hmm.

And that this wasn't life- Mm-hmm … you know?

And one day, I just kind of snapped in me, and I was like, "Oh, no, this

is, this is it. This is the thing that we're all…" Mm. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It seems, like, simple, but it, it struck me as being really profound- Yeah … and,

like, meaningful in a weird, bizarre way.

So.

Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah.

Yeah, I hear you, and this is just kind of, you know the concepts.

There, there's so many concepts, but then you need to have that felt sense- Right

… embodied present moment to- Right … be like, okay, there's, th- this is it.

There's no past.

There's no future.

And this is it- Yeah … right here, right now.

Yeah.

I wanted to make T-shirts that said This Is It for a while.

Mm-hmm.

But I asked a few people if they'd like that, and they were like, "We'd think

of the Michael Jackson album." Oh.

'Cause he had that album.

Okay.

And so I nixed that idea.

Yeah.

I d- I made one for myself though, and people seemed to

like it, but then it got a stain.

Good story.

I like This Is It with a stain or a coffee stain.

I don't know what the stain was.

Blood stain would be even better.

Um, so, uh, so tr- uh, uh, culture shock coming from

Lithuania to the United States?

Did you speak the language at the time, or?

Mm.

By the way, who is listening, we're drinking, uh, Topo Chico.

Oh, yes, this podcast sponsored by Topo Chico.

Topo Chico.

We are open for sponsorship.

Thank you very much, by the way.

Uh, always appreciate that.

Yeah.

Uh, cultural shock.

You know when, when you're 18, you're like you just won the world, you know?

Mm-hmm.

You're like, "Ah."

Mm-hmm You know?

Was it scary?

Yeah, of course.

Was it uncomfortable?

Absolutely.

But that's when you do crazy stuff- Sure … when you're young- Yeah

… because you're just, just going to the next thing, and to the next thing.

It seems like it could be kind of an amazing time to move to a

new country when you're just 18, because it's like almost- Yeah

yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, you know, you can, you can explore and do whatever.

And I'm so happy, so happy I did it when social media was not

around- Right … smartphones were n- you know, not there yet.

Right, right.

So I really got a chance to experience, uh, States and, uh, here

Columbus, Ohio from the street level.

Right.

And what were your initial, if you can remember, your initial, like,

thoughts about Columbus, Ohio?

But it was the first place you were in the States, right?

Yeah.

So it's- Yeah … yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So at that point, you know, and again, y- you only-

You only create an opinion when you s- when you have

something compare with Right.

Right.

So you're only comparing it to Lithuania.

So I'm like, oh, just comparing to Lithuania when things are just picking up.

Think about 2002, 1990, 1992, this is when it, like, all started collapsing, so we

really had only, what, 10 years to- Right … bounce, you know, change currency.

It's, it's… Yeah.

Yeah.

So, um, what I thought about it, was it cultural shock?

Probably was.

Right.

I don't remember that, you know.

How was it, to be honest?

And did you… You were 18, so what did you do?

Were you gonna school or did you get a job or?

Oh my gosh.

So with a green card, there is, like, a loop in the system.

Uh-huh.

You cannot get a job if you don't have a Social Security, but also you

need to wait for Social Security.

So you have a green card but you don't have Social Security, and you

cannot really, like, go and just, you know, get your employment.

Yeah.

And back then, you didn't get your Social Security number in,

like, what, two, three months.

It takes forever.

Right.

So, uh, yeah, illegal job in a hotel.

Oh, illegal job in a hotel?

Mm-hmm.

All right.

Yeah.

Great.

For three months.

Um, which hotel was it, if you don't mind?

I don't know if it's- Uh- … uh, there anymore.

Uh, Hyatt on- Yeah … Capitol Square.

Oh, yeah, I think it was Hyatt.

I think that's actually where I- It was there … they put me up when I came

in for the job interview for the job that I moved here for, weirdly enough.

Oh, okay.

Maybe it was the Hilton.

Doesn't matter.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

But, but then it was like, oh, yeah.

Right.

So w- we live in the, uh, we were staying in the Whitehall.

Okay.

I- And then the bus.

So you take bus to the Broad Street, and you just go into this big building.

Wow.

You're a little tiny person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

So it was fun.

But you were- It was fun … and you knew the language already.

No.

No, you didn't.

Wow.

So I learned it, uh, German in, uh, school.

Okay.

And then, uh, supposed to, the plan was to study in, uh, un- um, German university.

Okay.

And then green card happened, so I just had to r- r- like,

just, just learn English.

Wow.

And how- Yeah, so we did the, um, uh, I, I took some, um, classes,

some private lessons with one of the teachers and then… But you only

learn the language when you speak the language, when you- Sure … so that.

Yeah.

I'm trying to learn Spanish, but it's just not… When I was in Mexico, I

realized I should know more Spanish.

But- If you- Yeah … don't practice, it's, you know.

Right.

Right.

It's a memory.

Right.

Right.

Um, so was it, how long, how long do you think it took you to get from zero

to- To what we are speaking, right?

Sure.

Yeah, yeah.

To basically this, yeah.

And seems like, yeah, it's still, uh Being able to teach yoga and stuff, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, h- who knows, you know?

Right.

'Cause I moved here, stayed here, but then I left nine years after that.

Okay.

Like, I had a 10-year gap where I mainly s- you know, talk in,

uh, uh, Russian and Lithuanian.

Right.

So I was just kind of forgetting and coming back to it, but after nine years

of being here, you just, you just, you just kind of stay with the language.

I will tell you though, um, after a while I found out that I can, um,

apply for, um, financial support, uh, studying in college and university.

Mm. And that's when I went to Columbus State Community College.

Okay.

ESL.

And then eventually, I think when I already, uh, got to OSU-

Okay … that's when I'm, "Oh, w- okay, I, I think I'm getting it."

Right.

I can write papers- Right … without ChatGPT and, uh, you know.

So, yeah.

It is helpful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you lived in Columbus for nine years, and you… Where did you… Where, where

were you doing in those nine years?

When did the… Well, we can get to when… Let me know when the yoga starts,

but- Yeah … like, the nine years in, in Columbus, you're how old at this point?

Ni- 18 to, what, like, 20-whatever, 7.

25 25, I think.

25, yeah.

Um, yeah, so basically, uh, quite, very fast found out I can study.

So for me it was, "Okay, I'm staying." My mom, we, we came together.

Okay.

We stayed for, um, six months.

She decided to come back because at the time, uh, she has, had a boyfriend.

Okay.

But they were not married.

So she's like, "I'm going home." Okay.

And I'm like, "Okay, I'm staying 'cause I have this chance to, you

know, try something." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

"So I'll stay." So I went to Columbus, the college.

Right.

Stay there, and then realize I can go to OSU.

So basically that whole time it kept me, you know, going.

So I think, yeah.

And it took me a while to graduate, to be honest.

Mm-hmm.

Just because I was working several jobs- Yeah, mm-hmm … and kind

of supporting myself at that time.

Grinding.

So yeah.

And so I would just take classes, not take classes, you know?

Yeah, go back home, visit my family.

And what were you like at this point in your life?

Like- Uh, partying Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm Gotta do it Yeah.

Yeah Yeah.

We were partying hard Yeah.

Okay And that was not, like, associated with, um, always your, um, kind of

group of people Right There are a few friends that- Right … kind of, you

know, stayed together, but majority it was my Russian-speaking community Okay.

Is there a big Russian-speaking community in- I think now it

is and grown that time, yeah.

But it also was this everybody eventually knows.

Everyone knows everyone Right, especially if you're in such a

small- Yeah, yeah, yeah … town.

Yeah Yeah, exactly.

So Big Yeah Big enough-ish Right Yeah Right Yeah, yeah So then why

did you decide to leave Columbus?

Why on earth would you ever wanna leave Columbus, Ohio?

Yeah, right.

I know.

I mean… I mean, I knew it's gonna happen.

Like, I rem- I… There's, you know, certain, certain… Just like with

your felt sense of present moment.

Right Certain moments you're just, "This is it." Time to go.

I knew.

I was driving the highway one day, and it was the summertime, and

there's just concrete everywhere.

And I looked around like, "I, I, I cannot be here" Yeah "I just can't" Yeah So

I was just waiting until I graduate.

And nothing was really keeping me… I didn't have relationships.

Right And then I just, "Okay, I can just go reconnect with my family and decide

what I'm going to do next." Right.

Right.

Yeah.

So you went back to Lithuania?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay.

Sold all my little, very little belongings.

Oh, I love it.

Okay, yeah.

Got a good deal for the car, and yeah.

That's good.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's it.

So then you're back in Lithuania and… Oh, back in Lithuania

and, oh, God, that was messy.

Oh, was it?

Yeah.

In what way?

I was depressed.

Mm. You missed Columbus.

Yes, exactly.

I missed Columbus.

That happens to everybody apparently- Oh, yeah … when you bucket.

Yeah.

You know, and now I'm here.

Right.

Right.

Now you're back.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, y- it… Yeah, you just, you graduate, you don't know what to do.

Well, you're living with your mom again, too, which is hard.

Yeah.

Yeah, at that age.

Um, I went back.

Well, I ha- I have really good relationships with my mom.

That's good.

And, um, I end up traveling and coming back and forth.

And I went back, actually, to the States.

Okay.

The, uh, um, stayed for, like, six months, and I figured I just

need to continue the education.

So I end up, um, yeah, end up flying to Scotland, Edinburgh, and

studying in Edinburgh University.

Oh, right on.

That's a pretty town.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Giant fucking castle right in the middle of town.

Yeah.

Nobody can complain about that, right?

No.

Yeah.

Not like Columbus at all.

Yeah.

That's what we need, is a castle in the middle of town.

We

need to turn it down a little bit in Columbus.

I don't know what we need to turn down, though, but maybe we could turn down

Buckeye football just a little bit.

Cult.

Um- … we can do… This, uh, this episode also sponsored by Columbus, Ohio.

The lovely city of Columbus, Ohio.

Um… To be honest, you know, like, what I, I, I w- I found

myself, like, like, being bitter.

Mm-hmm.

And then, you know, again, it hit me another way, uh, when, um, my

partner and I were talking and I was, you know… Can we curse here?

Sure.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I was bitching about, you know, w- w- where I wanna go, what I wanna do,

and how I miss home, and he's like, "Well, you realize this is my home.

This is where I was born.

This is my land." Right.

Whether it's pretty, not pretty, this and this.

And I'm like, "Ah." Of course, selfish of me, 'cause then I took

him to Lithuania to where I grew up.

Right.

And he's like, "This is not pretty at all," because it's a post-Soviet-

Oh, right … uh, area of, you know, three or four factories

that don't even function anymore.

Right, right.

And it's just, like, very depressing, um, five stories Soviet buildings.

You know- Huh … nothing pretty about that.

Right.

But it's my land.

Sure.

And it's pretty- Right … for me.

Yeah, I kinda wanna know what it looks like now.

S- yeah, so.

Yeah.

So it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, that's what it is.

Right.

So for me, it's kind of like I chose to be here, and there's a moment when

I will choose to go somewhere else.

Yeah.

I just feel like I get, I think I get stir-crazy.

I mean, I was in New York for 10 years, and that was the longest I think I've

ever been in one place- Mm-hmm … for, except for when, like, childhood,

you know, when I was growing up.

And I just, you know, I don't know how long I expected to be here, but

it's been s- like six and a half years now, and I'm just starting to feel,

I don't know, like I've gotten all that I can get from here or something.

Mm-hmm.

But then again, everywhere you go, there you are.

You know?

If there's one thing I've learned- Yeah … you know, wherever you go,

you're still there with your head.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So it goes.

So it goes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There… And, and I feel bad 'cause we've been not giving Columbus good,

good… There's very wonderful- Release

there's wonderful people here.

Very, very friendly.

Very low cost of living.

Uh- There's a lot of pluses.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

There's some.

Just wish there was a little more terrain, you know?

Yeah.

Like, just a little bit.

Little bit, you know.

A mountain or two.

Um, so how did the… At that point in this… Oh, I gotta go back.

W- your dad not in the picture?

What was the, what's the story?

Oh, yeah.

That's right.

I, mm, didn't catch that.

Uh, well, you know, my parents divorced early, and, um- How

old were you when that happened?

What's that?

How old were you when they…?

Um- It started around when I was probably like nine, eight- Okay … 10.

So- So old enough to remember?

Yeah, old enough to remember.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And it was just, you know, we would keep in touch.

Right.

But not, not like any- Right, right, right … good relationship, so to say.

Right.

Yeah.

Right, right.

Yeah.

So you're back in Lithuania, and you are depressed because

you're back in Lithuania.

Maybe you're feeling purposeless.

Who knows what it is?

Purposeless.

You know, what do you do?

Right.

Then I go to Scotland, you know, studied there.

Oh, that's right, Scotland.

There is a moment in Scotland, again, another m- that moment when you're like,

"Do I turn left or do I turn right?" Yep And again, it turned the wrong direction.

Well, you know.

I had to, you know, make a, like, final decision to start studying, and

everything in my body was saying, "No." And I wish… You know, I remember I had

a conversation on the phone with my mom.

Right.

And I told her, just a few weeks ago when we were talking, like,

"I wish you would just tell me, 'Don't do it. Just don't do it.'"

Why do you think you shouldn't have done it?

'Cause I was just… I, I was lost.

Yeah, you were.

Right.

I know, and it just… When you're lost and you're in kind of this

kind of survival mode, you like, you just grab onto anything.

Right.

Anything that will anchor you down and anything that give you some kind

of sense of, "All right, I'm here."

Right.

"I know what to do." Right.

Which I'm obviously don't know what I'm doing.

This is, this is who I am right now.

This is who I am right now.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, there's a bunch of concepts of idea if I'm gonna

get my master's, yadi-ya, ya.

Right.

You know, all of these things, so.

What'd you study?

Public health.

Oh, okay.

Ugh.

Oh oh, no?

Okay.

No.

No, no, no.

I just didn't enjoy it.

I don't- Yeah … really enjoy academics after all.

I lo- I love studying, researching, you know, um, but academics, it's, it's

just a different- It is … animal.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

You have to really have, like, a very, like, a very specific mindset in order

to stay there and be there and- Yeah

and I'm really bad at tests.

Bad.

Bad.

So bad.

Um, yeah, I can r- when I was in Korea, I lived in Korea for, like, two

years teaching English, and I was kind of aimless, and I just went there.

And, uh, I knew I had to leave 'cause I… people stayed there too long 'cause

it was just a good life and you're having fun with all these expats and stuff.

And, uh, and I was like, "Well, I'm either gonna go…" At the time, I was

really interested in Middle Eastern studies, and it was, like, Middle

Eastern studies or I'd always been documenting things my whole life.

I was really into film.

Mm-hmm.

And I kinda taught myself how to edit when I was there, so I was like, "Well,

film school or Middle Eastern studies?"

So I applied to both.

Mm-hmm.

And ended up going to film school and going into a lot of debt,

but that's a whole 'nother story.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but, like, I'm… That was the right direction for me because, like, I look

back and I'm like, "I could never have done Middle Eastern studies." Yeah.

Jesus.

Like, finishing all those…

You have to read all these books, all these papers.

I- dude.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And film school was great because thir- it's not about tests or anything,

it's just about doing creative stuff, and it was- Yeah … yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Remind me, though, uh, did you actually, after graduating, did that… was

your main occupation around, uh, film?

Yeah, no, I'm mostly an e- like, a video editor.

That was my last… my jobs for, you know.

I directed some stuff.

I had, like, sever- I made some short films y- like, when I was in New York.

Mm-hmm.

And they, they did well.

Um, uh, they were short films.

They did, they did well.

Mm-hmm.

But they're… Like, it's very hard to make films.

You need a lot of people and a lot of money.

Yeah.

Um, and, uh, yeah, and the last thing I made was really good but didn't do very

well for v- variety of reasons, and it was just like… I think I had a realization,

not to get too down the rabbit hole, but, like- And it's some part of this

podcast really is like, um, I'm- this last project I made, it was a web series.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, it was really… it was fun to make, but again, we

were thinking about the future.

What's this gonna, who's gonna, who's gonna see this, right?

Mm-hmm.

Is this gonna get us a door open and whatever, you know?

And, uh, and it didn't, and it was surprising 'cause

everybody seemed to love it.

And then I think I had a realization where it's like the, the, the,

the, the joy has to come from the doing of the thing itself- Mm-hmm

not from the expected or hoping, hoped outcome, right?

Yeah.

It has to come from the experience of doing the actual thing.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, which brings me to the podcast, which is like, you know, if people

listen in, they don't listen again, Topo Chico, we will take your sponsorship.

But, like, for me, it's just, like, almost an excuse just to,

just to talk to people- Mm-hmm

and then to make something creative out of it.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Yeah.

Um, and I'm enjoying it for the most part.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Anyway, um- But can I say something?

Yeah.

Have you seen Brutalist?

I did.

Okay.

Do you remember the, her speech when she says it's not about the journey,

it's actually about the destination?

When she did the switch, yeah.

'Cause it's also about the context, you know?

Right.

For sure.

That was- I mean, the context that she was in and- For sure … not why

it was about the destination, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that was an interesting film.

So you finished the public health.

Uh-huh.

And then?

And then I get even more depressed.

Oh, life.

Oh, life.

Life, life, life.

Yeah.

And, uh, and then I get, uh, go back home to Lithuania, like, okay,

summertime, I can stay, hang out.

It's fun.

Yeah.

And then I'm just gonna go back to the States and continue- Mm-hmm … something.

And then I meet a boy.

Mm. Oh, here we go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what happens.

Yeah.

And I end up staying.

In Scotland.

In Lithuania.

Lithuania.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

So, yeah, into six years- Wow … of relationships, yeah.

Wow.

But six years is a long time, like, that's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so, and then- Break up And how's- He's been- … the depression, like,

uh, I'm feeling like at some point we're getting to a place where we realize that

the depression is coming from inside and perhaps not in changing things around

you, but in, you know, changing- Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Right.

But the, the six years with the boyfriend were good?

Mm. Oh, no, no.

Oh, okay.

All right.

I like it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I, um, I don't wanna go into details.

No, all right.

Let's, let's keep the- It's all right.

Right.

That would be another theme for the podcast.

Right.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Different ep- Mm-hmm … episode.

Next second episode.

I've learned a lot.

It was very interesting, uh, experience for me, uh, for,

yeah, for those relationships.

Open up a lot of doors for esoteric world.

They, they make you see yourself as well.

Like, I mean, I'm not sure… What do you mean by that, I guess is my question.

Oh, just the, the person that I was dating.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, just he opened a lot of doors of, of, of something I never considered.

Now you have to tell me what this… Tell me one of the doors.

Like tantra, for instance.

Oh, okay.

So he kinda opened your door- Yeah … the door to the, to the

yoga kind of world then, uh- Uh, yeah

okay … like something that is, you know, beyond a everyday life and just linearity

of- Right … past, present, future.

Right.

Right.

Different type of conversation.

Right.

Different way of spending time.

Yeah.

Different- It's funny how meeting just, like meeting a person kind of changes your

life in ways that you don't expect because you're introduced to this whole other way

of thinking that you didn't even- Yeah.

Yeah … right, wasn't even on your radar.

Uh-huh.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So then through him or, uh… Keep going.

You're, you, you, six years with the situation- 'Cause you really wanna

learn about yoga, it seems like to me.

No, I mean, that's how I know you.

I'm just curious to know, I, I, I think I'm just curious about, like it's,

it's interesting to meet people who'd come from other places in the city.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and, and I enjoy the experience of being like a, um, a traveler

because I like feeling like a stranger.

Like- Mm … I don't know what it is about it, but feeling like a

foreigner in a foreign country.

Yeah.

I really enjoy that experience.

Um, so to me it's interesting too, 'cause Columbus is a very homogenous- Yeah

yeah, city.

Mm-hmm.

And so to come across a yoga teacher that was not from here was surprising to me.

Um- Yeah.

And actually like even teaching here, and I don't even know

many foreign, foreigners- Right.

No … in, in yoga studios.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's super, super white.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, well, relationships wa- k- I kinda went back and forth.

I, I, I lived in, uh, London probably all together for maybe a year and a half- Okay

… or two years, something like that.

Um, and then, um, yeah, and then, uh, my family and I, we

opened a vegetarian bistro.

Oh, nice.

Mm-hmm.

And it was, it was-

It was, it was a fun experience, but, you know, when you're small business,

you have to really, like, you have to have a plan what you're going to do next.

Right.

Right.

And then if you're, you know, you're not doing the next

thing, it's just gonna kill you.

Yeah.

Was this in Lithuania?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then, uh, eventually I just, I, I just got exhausted.

Mm-hmm.

So it, it was kind of a, uh, the, the moment of getting exhausted from

relation, in the relationships- Uh-huh

and also, um, work.

And I had a very interesting encounter.

Um, let's call this person a healer.

Okay.

And they basically told me that, "Whatever you're doing, you, you gotta

stop 'cause you're, you know, you're gonna have consequences." And I knew

it because it was a lot of stress.

Okay.

Um, and a lot of just keep going, keep going, keep going.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're not sure where are we going, and you're like, "I don't

think I'm enjoying this moment.

Mm-hmm.

It's not bringing me joy.

I'd rather go to just destination." So that was the moment, and that

happened to me several times in life when I hit the point when we're done.

Yeah.

I packed my bags and I just went for three months to Norway so I can

decide what I'm going to do next.

All right.

And you- And that was a new chapter in my life.

How did you stumble upon the guy who gave you the, gave you the advice?

Or gave you, told you the- Through my, uh, boyfriend at the time.

Okay.

All right.

That checks out.

'Cause he was taking care of his mom, and I just went together, end up,

you know, getting a session as well.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it was a very health re- related, and I knew that.

Right.

It just, just a matter of time when something's gonna happen.

It's ironic that you were working in… You, oh, you were running a

vegetarian restaurant at the time when your… It was health-related.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Think about the yoga studios, though.

I hear it all the time.

Like what?

You know, studios, um, the, the, the business aspect of it and how

people are- Yeah … overworked and- Yeah … gotta really know

how to handle your stuff, you know?

So the, the, the paradox and- Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm … yeah.

'Cause it's gotta be, it's gotta be a money-making venture, but

also you're trying to be- A bench.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you're… Yeah, so there's… Yeah.

How do you walk that line?

Mm. Right.

Mm. And it does seem like the teacher training thing, it just seems like

it's so expensive and, like… I mean, I was gonna do it at one point-

Mm-hmm … but it was like $3,000.

And, like, I don't wanna be a yoga teacher, I just wanna go through the

philosophy and all that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

I just wanted to… But it was, it was way too much money for my

kind of, uh, um, for my… Yeah.

It was too much for me at the time.

Yeah.

Um, and I think I'm glad I didn't do it, frankly.

But the studio's gotta make money, so- Yeah … you know, you gotta do it.

Well, you know, everyone's doing for their own reason.

Mm-hmm.

Different reasons.

That's the first thing.

And I, I will con- I will disagree.

I think 3,000 for States, it's normal money.

No, I'm not saying it was crazy expensive for, like, a- Yeah

… teacher, teacher training at all.

No.

'Cause, like, I know the work.

There are a lot of work- Yeah, yeah, yeah … that's put behind the scenes

and- No, I wasn't, I wasn't suggesting it was expensive for teacher training.

Teacher training.

It was- It's for you.

For me.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Yeah.

I feel like they shouldn't call it teacher training almost.

I feel like they should call it, like, I don't know, deepen

your practice or something.

Mm. 'Cause I don't think most people are gonna go and be teachers.

They're not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some do, some not.

Right.

Right, right.

And it's kinda like this… It's just this is the evolution

of yoga in the first place.

You know, you just… It's, it cannot stay the same- Yeah … no matter what.

You do have the ancient wisdom, but some of it will just evolve as we're changing.

Yeah.

So it is probably we should call it something else now, but it is what it-

You mean the whole- The teacher training … the whole yoga thing or teacher training?

Yeah.

Right.

And the whole yoga probably is to be honest.

A new name for yoga?

Yeah.

Well, let's try to think of one.

Embodied practice or- Right … I don't know.

Yeah.

That's, that's… That doesn't have a ring to it.

Yoga's got a good two syllables, yoga.

Yeah, yoga.

Yeah.

It's pretty good.

But with the teacher training, uh, it's just, yeah, it's, it

just became available, accessible.

You know?

Right.

If you really think about it, at least, like, I can speak from my perspective or

the, the, the stories that I've heard.

Even, like, in '80s, '80s, '90s, like, in, in this Soviet, uh,

times, it wasn't… Like, you had to look for the information of yoga.

Like, it would be some scraps of copies of paper- Right … just given to you

underground in some basements- Mm … and people, like, secretly study and practice.

Huh.

You know?

So for a while it was not available.

Now it's available.

Now you can just, you know- It's everywhere.

It's everywhere.

Yeah.

When you were in Lithuania, were you, were you… Was there, were there yoga

studios and stuff like- Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Studios, it was… I was practicing there more of a classic.

Right.

Classic- Right … uh, kind of.

You just… You're not very adjusted.

You just, you just practice.

Do you remember the first time you, you went, you did yoga?

I went to the gym.

I was here in the States in Columbus.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, um, yeah, and then I just… I, I reached the point, I think it was,

like, around 25, 24, when I would be in the party and I would just- Ask myself,

"What's the point of everything?"

Yeah.

Like, yeah- Yeah … we're getting into that.

So I would just ask people random questions.

People like, "What are, what are you talking about?" So

I met- Have another drink.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And eventually drink yourself into like- Right, and then to, yeah … you

know, like, "Yeah, let's go blah, blah."

Yeah, yeah.

And then the next morning you wake up like, "Wait a second." Y- yeah.

"Something is off here." Yeah.

Yeah.

And the thing is also was about a, uh, I took a, uh, Asian philosophy class- Okay

… in the OSU, and I think that was also already moving, grooving stuff for me.

Huh.

Yeah.

What, what about it do you, do you remember anything particular?

Um, j- I mean, just the, just a whole new way of looking at life.

Right.

You know?

Just, just that was fascinating and so novel for me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think that was plenty on just, just kind of sit down with that and

contemplate and, you know- Right.

Right, right … try to understand.

Yeah.

Right.

Huh, interesting.

Mm-hmm.

So, um, you're, you're infant- you're in Norway, you're at the,

in the fj- by the fjords By the fjords … you're, you're work-

Yeah … what are you doing for work?

I was working in the hotel.

Okay, hotel.

Housekeeping, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I worked behind the front desk at the hotel in London.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Didn't love it, but there was a crazy Turkish woman who was the

boss, and she literally was…

Yeah.

Well, London crazy enough for what it is, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I liked her- It was fun … and she, she still, like,

follows me on Instagram, so that's- There you go … yeah, yeah.

You still keep that connection.

Yeah.

We got that real strong bond still.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Talk about the old days a lot.

Remember that time you yelled at me for moving the boxes?

Yeah.

Um- Oh, those are sweet times, though.

Oh, they were.

What, what are they- How old were you?

How old were you?

I'm 51.

No, how old were you when you were in London?

At the hotel?

Yeah.

26, 27. Okay.

Sometime.

Yeah, so- Yeah … good times.

Yeah, it was good.

I was not in a good…

I, I didn't know what was going on with me or I was just

kind of in a weird, you know?

I hadn't- Mm-hmm … yeah.

But I did enjoy it.

Yeah, I got to travel over Europe and stuff, and that was fun.

Um- Yeah … yeah.

Yeah, it was good.

It's kind of like a work that you just don't have to invest

too much of your attention.

Right.

You clock in and you clock out, and then you go and, you know, have fun.

And most of the time I was just, like, on the computer-

Yeah … 'cause it was still… Yeah.

Yeah.

It was exciting.

Yeah.

Um, it is interesting, though, that growing up in Lithuania, did you

get… You, I mean, you got to see a lot of Europe, like, that's where you

traveled probably, right, when you went?

Some.

People expect, but I didn't really travel that much.

Okay.

I think I'm catching up now.

Oh, okay.

Every time I go home, I'm like- Right … we're going

there, there, there, and there.

Yeah.

I just end up staying longer in places, so that was just a different

experience- Right … because one thing when you just go there and stay

for a week or two, but you actually immerse yourself into, oh, this is

what commute like is in London- Yeah

every single day- Yeah … from zone one to two to… You know?

And then this is, this is, ah, this is how you spend half of

your life in London underground.

That was the moment when I realized this city is eating me, and I cannot… Yeah,

I, I, I don't live my life anymore.

The subway?

Yeah.

Or the- And just the city itself

tube?

Yeah.

The tube, the just, just, you know, the commute, the just

from point A to point B. Yeah.

I lived in the hotel that I worked at, so it was great.

I just walked upstairs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But as a result, I didn't see as much of the city as I would have because I was

always stuck in a certain neighborhood.

Yeah.

But, but yeah.

Um- Gosh, life is a lot about redundancy, isn't it?

It sure is.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So I appreciate this, uh, bringing together just to

kind of talk about it Yeah.

How often… I was talking to a friend and I was, this is a couple months ago, and I

was like, "How often have, when's the last time you just sat down with somebody and

talked to them for, like, an hour or two?"

Yeah.

And he's like, "Uh, I don't actually remember. I mean, we had some

beers last week, and, you know, you talk, but it's not, like, a

focused… I don't know." Yeah.

It seems like a thing that's going away, and I think that it's kind of gone away.

COVID did a lot to help it kind of, um, but even before that, I think

it kind of was starting to go away, and I think it's community too.

Like, you could go on a whole trail about why we're losing the, uh, ability to,

like, have conversations- Mm-hmm … and why, but, like, it's unfortunate.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

It's a loss of community is what we've lost.

Yeah.

And it makes me sad.

Mm-hmm.

So- Norway.

Norway.

Norway, um, beautiful time.

Beautiful time.

Sure.

Gosh, amazing time.

So good.

Made you happy?

Ah, it just, like, switched something inside Mm-hmm.

Like, the place or the experience in the place?

The experience in the place.

People, a lot of nomads there.

Mm-hmm.

People just kind of go from one place to the next, seasonal jobs.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you see cult- like, you know, you see so many different cultures.

Right.

All the cruise ships that just- Oh, right, right, right … you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, uh… And then I, I also got very lucky to get there when it was, it

was, like, un- anomalically hot summer.

Which means how hot was it?

Like, it was hot as, probably as it is now here.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So for Norway, it's very unusual.

Right, right.

It's usually opposite, and it's quite rainy summertime, and- Right … you

don't really get too many sunny days, and that was just three months

straight up sun, and you hike and you, you know, swim in the fjord.

Mm. We're swimming in the fjord.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Come on.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

So it's, uh, it was a pure summer.

Oh, that's nice.

It was a summer, like, European summer experience.

It was the movie summer.

Yes.

Right.

All right … totally.

All right.

Yeah.

Eventually, I, uh, uh, 'cause, um, m- my partner, he has, um, Norwegian blood,

and then, uh- Okay … we went there back just, you know- You went back … I

want, yeah, I wanted to, him to see it.

Okay.

Yeah.

The same place?

Same place also.

Did you, you didn't meet him there?

No.

Okay.

No, no, no.

Right.

No.

Strange though that you ended up, after that Norway thing, that you ended up

finding a partner that has Norwegian- Yeah … strange, like- Uh-huh … you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hey, everything's- Yeah, if you look at it the right way, for sure.

Ah.

Yeah.

Everything is.

Yeah, and then some days I'm like, "No, everything's…" You know?

If you're look- you can't see me, but- … I can describe with- Yeah, some days-

… with these little frantic gestures with my hands … everything feels off.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And that's when they say if it feels off, you just pause, slow

down, and just kind of, you know.

Yeah, see, that's the hard part for me, that's what way, the

slowing down part is the hard part.

Mm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm. Working on it, working on it.

Um, it's never too late.

No.

Um, so N- after Norway, where did you go then?

Um, I'm gonna skip part of the story because that's when there was

another relationships happening- Okay

and, but I don't wanna have this conversation become

about the relationships.

Yeah, no, that's all right.

But that was the moment of, for me, just very transformational

because I met somebody.

Okay.

And, uh, um, and because I met somebody, I just end up going, whoa, you know,

you're just going back and forth, and then you, you know, you change your mind

to stay in Europe, not go to the States.

So I just end up going back to Lithuania.

Right You know, went back to Norway again and, you know,

continued the relationships.

And then eventually, um, eventually pandemic happened.

Mm. February 14th, I think, I came here to the States- Just in time … for this,

with a business trip, and, uh, we had to extend the trip because, uh, none, all,

like, the paperwork wasn't done on time.

So we extended my trip, and that's exactly when everything started to shut down.

And you're, you're in Columbus?

Yeah.

It trapped you.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know why.

I, I, like, I already did my personal work and understood what was

happening- Okay … for me at the time.

Right.

So, uh, but it was just interesting that, oh, it's not happening just to me.

Right.

It's happening for me and the rest of the world, you know?

Right.

So everyone's, like, learning something for themselves.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then my- Yeah … my, uh, my, my ticket was, my ticket back to Lithuania

was February 28th, which is my birthday.

Right.

So I'm just, like… And yeah, I never, I never went back.

So the gentleman you were dating just was still in Norway at the time?

Uh, it was a woman.

A woman, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Um, sorry to assume.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, she was in Norway at the time?

Um, she was in, in her home country.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that ha- that's how that ended, because you got stuck in

Columbus 'cause of the pandemic?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Wow.

So then you've been here ever since.

And I've been here ever since.

COVID did it.

COVID did it, yeah.

It was very logical to come here because I already had some good-

Right … friends- Right … you know, mm, from back in the day.

And, um, it wa- you know, I knew the city, so.

But, yeah, but still it's, like, odd to come to a place just thinking you're

visiting and then end, ending up having…

You know?

Deep down inside, there probably was many times when I was thinking,

"I'm, I'm… I probably need to, you know, go back to the States- All

right … one way or another." And then?

And sometimes the life, it does it for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, like, you know, while you're thinking here, we're gonna do the thing.

We're gonna force your- Yeah … force your hand.

Yeah.

Exactly, so.

And then there was another mess, you know- Right … being here and, uh, after

10 years not being here, no credit card, no, um, what is it, the credit score.

Right.

Right.

No, no, no place to stay.

You know, you just kind of go, go, go, go, go.

So what did you do?

Uh, hustled.

But I stayed with my friend and then, um, and then I quickly found my partner.

Okay.

Yeah.

We kind of, like, we were connected.

We know each other for many years.

Oh, okay.

Over 15 years.

So you knew him from the last time you were, your first- Yeah.

Oh, wow.

I knew him from the very first time.

Oh, that's crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it just, yeah, happened.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah.

Um, and when did the… Did you start getting into the… I'm gonna go into,

like, the yoga- Mm … somatic training.

Mm-hmm.

All that kind of stuff.

Um, when did you start getting into, like, heavy into that?

Was that in Col- Like, when… Just was that in this last Columbus jaunt, or

was it before that that you started too?

Columbus 2008, 2009.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that was the time when, um, I was asking myself a lot of questions

that I couldn't get answers.

And I, uh, got, uh, very sick for almost two weeks with a high fever.

Mm-hmm.

And then one day I woke up, it was like, um, Friday night, 8:00 PM.

Mm. And I'm like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the teacher training.

I don't have money, but I'm going to do teacher training." And I f-

found a teacher here in Columbus.

I emailed her, and I start studying In the next couple months, I think,

or something like that Was it just regular yoga or was it the- Hatha,