In this episode, Jennifer Oxley talks about the importance of vulnerability as a leader, closing the wealth gap, how she ended up at The Motley Fool Foundation, and a lot more!

For the full show notes, head on over to:

https://www.salaryfinance.com/us/podcast/Jennifer-Gennaro-Oxley-Elevating-Humanity-and-Closing-the-Wealth-Gap

Anita Ward 0:00

Welcome to Working On Wellbeing, where we share stories of purpose-driven people doing good in the world. We'll meet change agents, entrepreneurs, students, teachers, and big thinkers to learn about their wow moment and how it got them to where they are today. This show is brought to you by Salary Finance. And I'm your host Anita Ward, cultural anthropologist, and Chief Development Officer at Salary Finance.

Hi, everybody, welcome to the show, Working On Wellbeing. Today, I am feeling grateful. I'm feeling grateful because I get to spend time with one of my favorite people, Jennifer Gennaro Oxley, the president of The Motley Fool Foundation. And there are very few people whose career spans the for-profit world, the nonprofit world, the trade associations, and chambers of commerce. And Jennifer's served as a leader in all of these. She's led regional offices of Playworks. She was the executive director of the Fulbright Association. She's been in leadership at the Chamber. She's even been in leadership at the Electronic Retailing Association. And on top of all that, she's this incredible civic leader who spends time with young adults and mentors and does all of those things so quietly. And my mom used to tell me all the time that it's good to be a leader when nobody's looking. And Jennifer, you're amazing. And I'm sure, I mean, that's my Italian mom, God rest her soul, telling me to do the right things when nobody's looking at me. But you always do the right things, even when nobody's looking. So thank you for being this incredible role model and, in many ways, a social conscience for the rest of us. And I just really appreciate you being here to share your story. So welcome to Working On Wellbeing, my friend.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 1:57

Thank you, Anita. We share our Italian heritage. And though there's beauty indifference. There's also this real smile, and I think you feel it in your soul when you have that kind of similarity. So yes, lots of good pearls for my parents as well. So I really understand and am so happy to be with you today.

Anita Ward 2:18

Oh, thanks. I think maybe before we jump into conversations around purpose and the fool and philanthropy, I'm going to warm you up a little bit and I don't usually do this. So I'm gonna just make a choice. I'm just gonna get let people kind of get to know you. So pick one of these. Work or Play?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:38

Play.

Anita Ward 2:39

Love or Friendship?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:43

Love.

Anita Ward 2:44

Cats or Dogs?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:47

Dogs.

Anita Ward 2:48

Summer or Winter?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:50

Summer for sure.

Anita Ward 2:52

Morning or Evening

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:54

Both equally.

Anita Ward 2:56

Introvert or Extrovert?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 2:58

Extrovert.

Anita Ward 2:59

A night in or a night out?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 3:02

A night out.

Anita Ward 3:04

And here's the hard one. Jennifer, you thought I was gonna let you get off real easy, right? So fill in the blank, vulnerability is?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 3:17

Recognizing that you don't have all the answers and listening well.

Anita Ward 3:22

I love you even more. Because you know how I feel about authenticity and vulnerability. But I appreciate that leaders like you are just unafraid to be vulnerable. And really, that's what ties back to this higher purpose. And in so many beliefs we both just talked about coming out of this sort of Italian heritage and our journey shaped us so much. So I was hoping maybe we could start there. Just talk a bit about where did your journey begin and talk about maybe the important people and influences in your early life.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 3:52

I'm happy to do that. My dad was the only one in our Italian family to go to college. And he became a community banker, but to do that he had to leave New York City. So that was a big thing in my life because my whole family was there. And though my dad also married a non-Italian, which was a thing you didn't do back then. So I'm very close to my German family. But I would say by far the nucleus of my parents and my brother are there, they are who I am. And then my parents, I would say I had a different life when I moved to Massachusetts, which I like I would explain my life inside my home. It was culture and curiosity. Outside of my home, it was classic rock, loyalty to a team, loyalty to New Englanders. So they're very different lessons depending on where I stood in my home. But in the end, it came down to the four of us, five house rules, which I'll never forget. And other than that my parents were so easygoing, but they always challenged us to be extremely curious and kind all the time.

Anita Ward 4:58

You know I can't let you go, what were the five house rules?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 5:02

This is like a little pro tip I learned from my parents, which I now have with my husband and my kids. And we got on the same page because of it.

Anita Ward 5:12

Mine’s too old now, I may now try them, but he's 24. He's not gonna care. Maybe he could use them one day.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 5:19

That's right. I think we talked about this before, my children are young because I decided to have children later. So my children are only four and nine. So the house rules are still working. For us they were, to tell the truth, to be kind, to never give up, don’t leave anyone behind, and to have fun.

Anita Ward 5:42

Oh, my gosh. So that's a business book.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 5:46

I think good manners were in there. I had my grandparents around me. And manners were a thing. And so I think that was just sort of understood, but the others were, if it didn't involve those things, my parents were extremely easygoing, you could make a million mistakes. Fall forward, fall backward, whatever it was. But if you ever did not tell the truth, or you were ever unkind, they had no patience. And, I think even the word disappointed came out from time to time.

Anita Ward 6:17

Which was horrible in Italian. Please be angry.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 6:22

They use it very sparingly, I would say. But when they did, when I didn't get that hug from dad after a talk. Let me tell you, it left an impression. So interestingly, our house rules are very similar to those things.

Anita Ward 6:37

What did you want to be when you were a child?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 6:39

A dancer?

Anita Ward 6:42

What kind of dancer? It didn’t matter? A ballet dancer?

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 6:46

No, it was hip hop, jazz, and modern. A combination of all three. My mom is an artist. And so she always had me in the arts, whether it was music, or otherwise, my dad's an athlete. And so I ultimately picked sports over being a dancer and was fortunate to play a sport all the way through school.

Anita Ward 7:06

What did you play Jennifer? Share it with everybody.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 7:09

Basketball, softball, and football. Although the last time I played football was maybe three years ago, I broke my finger. And my mother said, “When are we done with the football?”

Anita Ward 7:26

My mother used to “Get off your motorcycle, you now have a two-year-old”, and “You need to be done with that.” So totally relate. Thankfully, I didn't break a finger playing football. But I'm a terrible football player. Maybe I could kick the ball.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 7:45

Well, at least you tried. That was my dad's biggest thing in life was to develop grit and not give up all the time and I did that. I think I always say the two greatest gifts I have received from my parents are confidence and joy. All day, my mom is full of joy. Our house always had music even when we didn't have money. I just always had music all the time. And my dad was just so much about you can do it at every level. So just always understood. So now that I have young children, I'm always thinking, Am I ever coaching? Am I inspiring curiosity? Am I doing all those things? And then as my mom always says, “Don't take yourself too seriously, Jennifer. It’s the best thing you can do as a parent like a laugh with your children. Make mistakes with your children,” You know all those things.

Anita Ward 8:30

And it's so hard though.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 8:33

Oh, it's so hard, isn't it?

Anita Ward 8:35

I still want to be that sort of perfect parent. And, we started this off with vulnerability. But isn't it hard to be - maybe it's easier to be more vulnerable with people almost that you don't know, in some ways I struggled to be vulnerable with Tommy. Because I want to be that rock. “Don't worry, I'm here.” But in many ways being vulnerable means you're that rock. So maybe I'm a little conflicted there.

Jennifer Gennaro Oxley 9:03

I really feel you. I had a lesson from one of the employers that I had. And this person was unbelievable externally, the best I've ever seen in environments that largely had no other women. Just an unbelievable rule breaker unifier, but internally was the exact opposite. And it was interesting because I always thought I had to be the tough one internally because I love people more than anything on the planet. And I thought, “Okay, I love humans. I can do it. I'll be her COO,” I didn't handle it. I still remember the day that she called me in the office and she said, “What are you doing?” And I said, “Well, I'm just doing what I need to do.” She said, “At what point are you going to cry with the staff?” And I said, “Well, I'm Italian. We cry all the time.” I'm holding it back clearly. But she goes you're not showing them. They're feeling very difficult but what they're seeing on the ground. You are too it because you're trying to be so strong and so tough. They are not actually able to connect with you as much as you think. Now I did I overcorrected because I saw what she was doing. But then at the same time, I have to live my own life and be my own person. So if I didn't have that example, Anita, I probably walked down that path of not being as vulnerable as my kids. But there was just always been always a mentor right around the corner. They're right there. Even if you don't love everything they do. They're going to teach you something. And she taught me that I had to emote and to really be vulnerable with the staff at the time, my teammates. And it really made a huge difference in how well we did together. So do you do that all the time? No, you have to choose the right time. And it's not always easy to do the hard work that we do out there. Especially when you shift over to social service work.

So how did you end up? Where did you go to school? Did you stay in Massachusetts?

I did. I stayed at UMass, I wanted to go play sport, I just knew I really wanted to, I wanted to go further away. But then one of my closest friends, a couple of them are going to the school and, and I really was excited that I went.

What's that path that took you into service and the industry? What did you study in school?

I actually studied hospitality, I didn't want to go into this field. My mother has always been in this field. So my mother was late in her life career decided to be a marketing director, she's the only 75-year-old on Twitter that I know right now is really good at it. I love that. So she was always about childhood cancer. That was her passion. So we went through the ups and downs of that our whole life when she was in that. You have miracles and you lose kids, and it happens on the same day. And all of that is heartbreaking. But you just keep going, you just got to take the next step forward. So I had that. And then when I came down to DC, which I was very lucky to do right after college, my father said, “If you want to get into the hospitality industry, great, but whatever you do balance your life makes sure you are also giving back all the time. So pick the passion,” for me was youth empowerment. But you know, pick whatever it is and get involved. He always used to say just do something every day, do something good for someone else. Take care and make sure your whole so many pearls, but I take them all in and just run with them.

The juxtaposition between that sort of protected. So wise world, and then the outside world is just incredible to me. And I didn't appreciate it until much later in life. When I start to reflect back on, at the time felt like this, I can't breathe, I feel so protected. But I'm still supposed to go out and do something to where I am now. And I wish I had just captured all of those lessons. Some of them are obviously by osmosis. They're in there, like your five rules, but with the wisdom of our parents, we were really lucky. Jennifer, we were really lucky.

We were something that we share, although the other day I did tell my son at a sleepover that if I came in and five minutes later, then I'd have to separate them. And I said, “Oh no, I just fully turned into my parents.”

And when they're in the car with them, somehow I turned into my mom. But you didn't go into hospitality. So was there a choice that you made? What took you down your career path? I mean, it's still surface, but I guess maybe it's hospitality in many ways.

I love the industry still. I think it was New Year's Eve, I was 21 or 22, I had lucky to get into an amazing organization. It was New Year's Eve, I was here in DC, I hadn't made as many friends yet. And I said on our team, “Why don't you all go home at 11 o'clock, I'll do all the side work. So you can go be with your friends.” And I sat there and drank a bottle of champagne. And I was by myself watching de Clerck, back in the day. And I was like, “Oh no, this isn't my lifestyle.” And I need to make a choice here. So I called my father the next day and I said, “What do I do?” And Poppy said, “Gennaro's don’t quit” and I'm like, “Okay, I get it. I'm with you. But I can I'm gonna quit.” And so I did. And I think from there, it was just about finding your life. I think I got really lucky to find another mentor who introduced me to another group. And then it just started from there. So I think change management from there just sort of became I didn't realize I was in it. But every organization we ever were I was ever part of we had to turn around and there was something about it that I loved. I loved igniting the thing that makes people want to shift. So that was the start and then I had another thing. You and I talked about it earlier, which we'll get into that was a life shift for me. And that's how I shifted from more of the chamber corporate side to nonprofits.

So that's what I think about sort of this fork in the road, right? I've had so many different forks on the road. So maybe we can talk about that maybe we can shift into that. Because I know that you and I both have had very meaningful decision points, whether they're decisions within our control or outside of our control that caused us to turn left instead of going right. And, I believe that all happens for a reason. But maybe share a little bit about your fork in the road.

And I'll keep it short, 10 years ago, maybe 12 years ago, as most Gen X women do, we don't rely on other people. We make our own way. We're very fortunate to have the open door from the generation of women before us. But for us, it was a little bit more about money in the what I think, And I've talked a lot about that, then your why, which I think sometimes happens with age too. But anyway, I'm running up my career and I'm volunteering everywhere and then I had an injury to my neck, which was severe. And that injury shifted my life. Like I say to people, now, it's a special club. If you survive cancer, or you survived a major injury and you've had the same similar situation, you don't wish that club on anyone else. And it gives you a perspective you could never get unless you've been through it. And that perspective for me was that I had to shift my career. But what ended up happening was, I was so fortunate after 27 doctors and three surgeries to go to India. For those of you who have been in India, and you and I've talked about it, there's a special place, and I had a medical miracle there. All of a sudden, I had no more pain, but it wasn't all of a sudden, they knew what they were doing. And I think from that perspective, my doctors challenged me. They said, “Are you doing the right thing in your life? Are you doing the right career for you?” And I was like, “Of course, I am. Because I've been on the trajectory,” the Gen X trajectory. And then all of a sudden, I said, “Okay, wait, I could be doing way more to help others, I could do this.” And so you think to yourself, you're moving along in your career. And what my doctors wanted me to do is let go of what I thought success was, and then redefine that, not just for myself, but anyone that I could support, and the scale of doing that work and all of that. So had a medical miracle, came home, and still to this day, 12 years later, I had no pain. It's like I never went through it. But I think immediately I came back, took three months with my husband, and then was fortunate to go into the Fulbright Association through a friend. And then it went from there. Then I was like, “Okay, we're turning around this one.” Then we went to the next one. And I was like, “Oh, we're turning around this one.” And it ended up being a process. But, India teaches you two things that taught me, one, is that you have more control over your health than you think. Because it wasn't just what they were doing. And the second is that in India, I am insignificant. And there's something about being the minority, being insignificant. All of those things, and then seeing those children every day, I mean, you think, “It's always worse than whatever you have.” I had blinding pain for five years. But it was always worse. And so when all that happened, I thought, “Look at how beautiful everything is just the colors, and the entrepreneurialism and everything”, so it's just India is a beautiful place. So it's got to its hardships like the US and so many wonderful things.

Did you find joy there? I know you had joy from your family but wasn't that maybe a shift into just sort of this existential level of joy.

A really good way to put it. The doctor who was extremely popular could have done a million other things. All he did was surround me with his whole family. I just could get teary thinking about it. I couldn't believe it. It was so familiar, which is so Italian. And for me, it felt very like that is a similarity I like even though all the differences were the most beautiful things there. But that similarity actually brought the joy back. And so much joy. So the joy was sharing our earbuds of like some song prints or something else. And I was sharing it with my nurse and she had her earbuds in and we were singing a song together. Because we couldn't communicate otherwise. So I was learning Hindi but there are ways to bring it for people to come together when they think about it through the lens of joy or play. So I've talked about that before.

Yes, but I am trying very, very intentionally to think about joy when it comes to financial inclusion. So you and I are both in this financial inclusion space. And well, first, as women, we're ignorant, many of us are around financial literacy and 70% of us don't have savings. There's so much that we could talk about. And really quite interesting, I just saw some research, Jennifer, I have to send it over to you about African American women who are focused in that same way that we were early in our careers around the money, not the why, almost as if they feel like they have to play catch up, which I can relate to from 20 years ago. And so there's so much happening to us as women, there's so much happening in with people of color in the US, but we're both committed around its financial inclusion model, and haven't quite figured out the connections yet between joy and happiness. But I happen to know an organization that talks a lot about happiness and finding joy and closing the wealth gap. And so I was thinking, to dig a little deeper around. What took you to the Motley Fool? As you already know, David Gardner is my hero, I should tell him as well. But David and I are a bit closer. I suppose if I got up from my desk, I think I even have one of those AOL CDs that are enshrined in my office from the days when my only advisor because I was ignorant, was the Motley Fool in the newsletter, and I got it along with my little AOL subscription. But remarkably, The Motley Fool changed my life. And so what was your journey like? How did you end up at The Motley Fool?

Well, David is a huge fan of you that much I can tell you, for sure. And he is a joy to work with. But interestingly, I end up back in an industry that my dad was from, so that is, after coming from large education in the nonprofit space. But I think that I wanted an opportunity, personally, to not turn something around, but start something with a community of people that were extremely focused on paying it as David would say, forward. So I knew I had an opportunity because the audience we would be working with, to some degree control access, can shift the needle from a systemic perspective. It also thinks that I shifted back into corporate, sort of this mix between corporate and public charity because business is a catalyst for change here. And in fact, as you and I have talked about a lot, it is maybe the greatest catalyst of change. And I think The Fool has largely been an advisor, a trusted advisor, for so many. And on the other end, having a sort of bully pulpit into the corporate world from a broader perspective, I thought there was an opportunity for us to actually make some sustained change. And I love the interventions that are there, many wonderful interventions, but there's something that's not quite working. Now we know what something is. We've gone through the roof, but it is really frustrating. And the Motley Fool, I met David, through my husband, who also went to UNC.

And I'm sorry if I could we tell everybody what your husband's major is?

Archaeology and Anthropology.

Not that I don't love this whole family for a lot of reasons. But it just adds to the love.

Well, I'll just say that in Italy, where we got married, he spoke more Italian than half of my family at times. And he's 1/64 Italian which is enough. So I think for me, I wanted an opportunity to financial wellness since it’s always been something that's near to my heart for many reasons. We can go into those or not. We teach and we enable people in a way that feels fun. And finance is not fun. And it hasn't been perceived as fun. And I think that's one of our biggest challenges. So I think it was the focus on business. I think it was the opportunity to leverage our amazing membership. And I think the other piece we're like an old-school membership model, and it's thriving.

It clearly works, right?

And I think there's one other big piece you. The other big pieces - when I had my second or third interview with David and Tom together, they were extremely willing to be flexible on their own need, their own legacy, what even they see, the lens they utilize, all of it. And I did some of that litmus email testing with them during the interview, I said, “Look, I'm happy to take chances, I need to know, I have flexibility here.” And there was just an extremely open mind to go through the journey and be with us together. So when that happened, I said, “Sign me up.” So it really was this cool thing. And of course, we came together through UNC. And David, as many of you may know, he has stepped back from the company and stepped into the foundation even more and other things. But really, I've been really fortunate to have him as my chairman.

So interesting, when did you join The Motley Fool?

I joined in 2019.

To make the point really clear to everybody listening, this was a thoughtful approach. And so when we talk about inclusion, or even as Jennifer talked about her, she's usually hired to turn around an organization. This is not about a turnaround. This is about providing long-term change. So maybe let's lean around, how thoughtful you were, how you took your time to get the philanthropy model, right? But also, the fact that you were so inclusive in defining the foundation and its model of financial inclusion, which, by the way, seems so obvious. Nobody else has done this. So could I mean, it makes me laugh, right? I shouldn't laugh but maybe share your process. How and why did you take that approach? And why do you think that's so important? And let's talk a bit about your approach.

I would say the number one reason that I have this approach is around my voracious belief that you have to partner live from within, that's it. Change does not happen otherwise. So in any organization that we had to turn around any nonprofit, that was struggling, or any of the nonprofit work, it always works, when within is re-designing the future. And I think we all know that now, so much more two years into the pandemic, and all of the other things that are happening in the country around social justice and otherwise. And so I think for me, it's also a test, can it work? And so we've just applied a similar philosophy. So when I came in, I said, “I need at least two years to launch.” And I said, “Look, number one, we're going into more vulnerable audiences. And the last thing we want to do is ever hurt anyone, we need to be very careful about what we do. I'm not saying we don't take chances, we need to be careful.” And the second is, I need to do a forming Taskforce. Let's pull together. So this is out. This is before we did all the other interviews, but let's pull together people that are in situations right now that are really tough. People that are running those organizations, social service organizations, communities based on the ground with those people that are in MasterCard that are in some of the other financial places. And then beyond that, I thought it was way more than this financial peace. Even the word financial is off. And so I think about what are the other pieces that either lock or unlock financial freedom. And I said, “And this is what a lot of people have done,” but I think I wanted to spend a year with that group over zoom, fascinating to do these things over zoom. And figure out whether or not actually they could come together, like can this actually work in a way? And I think there are so many examples of times where that has happened, especially more in the last two or three years. But crying about philanthropy was so separate. This wasn't a partner and live from within. And I lived through a lot of those years of philanthropy. So in even the word philanthropy, is it as inclusive as it needs to be? Does it create the other nests that we constantly have in this country? So that those pieces I think, for me were interesting. I then asked that forming Taskforce, these are people running major things, to make these interviews, to do all these calls. And I think they thought, “Oh, well, you'll have an outside firm do that. And you'll tell me what to do.” And I was like,” No, that's not what we're signing up for.” And, this is the thing. I may have grown up mostly in Massachusetts, but I come from a New York direct family, like, Texas. Anyways, this is not what I want to see like, it doesn't act *Don't we all want to see,* it actually is an opportunity for this to be different, because something isn't working. And so when two-thirds of our country are not living well, that's a lot of this country. And so it was interesting to have them do the interviews, and then I split them into teams at the end. And I said “Come up with what your synopsis is, what do you think is going on from a macro perspective? What do you think The Fool should do?” And I was prepared for them to come up with very different things. And they didn’t. And it was interesting, they both came up with the same vision statement. Almost word for word. But then what is that telling me? A pearl. So financial freedom for all is the mission statement.

So Jennifer, one of the most amazing things that I think you did while you were structuring the vision statement was you also incorporated this metaphor around a game that I loved as a kid called Chutes and Ladders. How does that fit into the way you think about financial well-being and just escaping the cycles of debt or trying to achieve financial well-being? Why did you choose Chutes and Ladders?

So we had the forming Task Force, and it came about organically because I brought it in an Illustrator. I had to figure out how to bring the emotion to this, this is not just a heady exercise. And so, there's a balance there. And so she was designing, as we were talking. So as we were talking about the opportunities, the barriers, there is a path to financial freedom, it's different for everyone. And it's not equal period. That's the truth. And we had to listen, we had to live from the truth, which is the other piece that we had in this exercise. And so as she was designing, then she came back to us. And she said, “I think this is what I see.” But what she actually drew was a Chutes and Ladders game. Interestingly, the modification to that was Chutes and Ladders game. Because the path is not similar for everyone, even the path of freedom, even if you have privilege, and you can get there easier, it is still not the same. So as she was doing that, it was the thing that came forward was not that there wasn't an opportunity to move forward if you had the certain privilege or education or otherwise, or that there were so many pitfalls and ways to fall off, it was that the connective pieces of what helps someone be financially free or not health, housing, education, work and money, they're really not as connected as they need to be. And so no matter where you get to, it's just this. So there are a lot of different narratives that came out of that. But in the end, there's a way there's a possibility for us to connect those dots. But until we really do, it's going to be hard for any more people, not just a few more, but a lot more people that do find it to be financially well.

So a couple of things hit me when you were talking just now, you talk about inequality as a truth. Were there other truths that you uncovered during this process or are any of those universal truths? Or is there anything that we can step back and say, just like you just described with the fragmentation of all the things that should come together to contribute to our freedoms? What other truths? Did you see it? I guess there are truths around women that we talked about a little bit earlier. But in that, that still falls into that inequality umbrella. But there are other things that you saw?

A couple, I think there are some truths in the word inequality.

Talk to me about that.

This may be a bit controversial, I have to say, but I think there is what really came through with this warming Task Force, very diverse backgrounds, was that the way the system is set up in the US is meant for certain people in the US to do well.

So when you were looking at truth, Jennifer, I think about a lot of things that I have seen on the nonprofit side, and now with salary finance, around the gaps. So there are gaps in education, there are gaps in access, there are differences in many different ways across the board. What were you seeing and what did your task force see?

They saw very similar gaps. So ultimately, we ended up being in about four or five areas. We saw gaps in health. We know from the provider perspective from those that have access to health care that actually keeps them well, not just when they're sick. We saw gaps in housing, which I know we've talked a lot about. So I believe that one of the health issues we discussed was housing. There were so many various components we could discuss that were realities about the disparity between what men and women earn and that all of those things still exist. And then when you look at work, there are some employers that are conscious, right? From a conscious capitalism perspective, they are very much trying to make sure they understand how someone comes to the business, and then how can they help them the most throughout their time. But I also think that there were a fair amount of gaps related to your background, your race, your ethnicity. Let's just say what all of those things are. I think there were amazing truths, opportunities, and singular dimensions.

There are amazing things happening out there. But more often than not, unless you were in a situation where your housing and your health and your ability to build credit. And all of those things were connected, no matter what at the end; financial literacy, having the agency. Unless those things are connected, or someone's helping you connect them, or an employer’s smart and thinks about those things for their employee, something happens. You have a health issue and all of a sudden, you're all the way back down. Or you don't have an opportunity to build generational wealth so your next generation is constantly starting over, which we see in many communities. So I think there were so many gaps. I'll say that it was really kind of hard. But I think we then spent the next six months focusing on the lattices and how we actually figure that out, and how The Fool plays a part in that not only shifting those systemic mindsets, and actually helping people think differently about vulnerable communities, but also, how do we help people today with the challenges that they're having with your results of those systemic issues? So I think we sat in the truths of the gaps for as long as we needed to, and then the whole crew, which very often remains optimistic and helpful, went into the lattices, and we spent a lot of time on that.

Salary Finance is a social purpose organization. So, while we're not quite a charity, we're heavily influenced by conscious capitalism and the idea of upliftment. And we observed the same data that you saw, which is that 70% of women lack emergency finances, and 60% of payday loans go to women, primarily women of color, right? When you look at the data from the perspective of African American and Hispanic households, it's as if they're in the top 70% of those who don't have an emergency fund. So, when we looked at it, we realized that we needed to find a method to disintermediate the companies that stepped in to fill those holes, whether they were payday lenders or college fees, or anything. However, we believe that the best way to scale this is through employers. But when I consider the truth about employers, that's problematic in and of itself, because they're not all aware, as you just stated, so you're dealing with corporate cultures and value systems. But, if we could align everything in a really deliberate manner, we could bring together employers and make a significant difference for a substantial portion of the population. Jennifer, I recently discovered some data that broke my heart: there were 33% of people who, in the last two years, took the agonizing decision to go without medical care because they were frightened they couldn't afford it. I mean, for me, that was the data point that struck me the hardest. So, what is the obvious question? Well, there are so many obvious questions, we could spend an hour just talking about language because I believe language choice is essential, and your husband and I would like to have an anthropological field day around cognition and language. However, I believe the audience is asking themselves a question. So, when I think of The Motley Fool, I automatically think of investment, correct? But, we're talking about people who can't make ends meet, so everything we're talking about seems so essential around financial literacy. Investing, on the other hand, appears to be out of reach. So, what exactly is this vision? Is this about closing the wealth gap, the financial gap, or a combination of the two? I mean, how does The Motley Fool's mission transfer into the foundation's mission? Because, frankly, I believe there is a wealth gap that needs to be closed, as everyone who has ever listened to my show knows. I also share the experience of receiving my first options from Chase and having no idea what they were or what to do with them. I also had a Ph.D. and it was at that point that I turned to The Fool and said, "I have to sort this out, I'm working at a bank, this is a problem.” So, how, and what role do you anticipate the foundation playing in terms of investment? Is it possible that I'm missing something? And I am, and it has nothing to do with investing? Isn't it just that it looks so far away?

Doesn't it appear to be a long way off? And I believe it is, let's face it, let's be honest. It is due to the fact that it is. And, with that said, do you believe we're concentrating on the wealth gap? Our aim is to make the world wiser, happier, and richer, I believe the foundation itself, I presume I did, David and Tom, The Fool, is there. And it's hard to do that if you're not financially free. It's difficult since one thing leads to another I believe so. So, I believe it is critical, as I previously stated, that individuals are in space, and we will initially concentrate on what we call the coping sector in the United States. And I think that the reason for this is due to the fact that we excel at what we do. So what we do well is assist individuals get confidence, provide all basic information, and the purpose of wealth creation is to ensure that you understand your money and know-how to generate wealth when the opportunity arises. So, how do we make it more attainable? People must be more stable, and I believe we have an opportunity to assist design solutions that link those connections that we discussed as drivers of financial freedom. As a result, a family will have more opportunities to save money and accomplish other things. Another thing I'd say is that it doesn't take much to get started, as David has always said. And I believe it is a misconception when it comes to investment. And, I believe, our argument is that we wouldn't want someone to invest money that they need to get by in their daily lives. As a result, there is a balance. So I believe it starts with financial stability and wellness for us. Then, once we'd been together for a while, it became a part of the educational process. Because one of the options is to invest. It's also one of the paths that anyone can take, regardless of their background, race, or anything else. As a result, I believe this is currently unreachable since it feels that way. And it is in most cases, but it does not take much to get started. And I believe that by ensuring that The Motley Fool takes care of people when they're ready, the foundation is assisting in the creation of a stable platform.

I think that's marvelous. And I can't wait to see what happens. And I've been a Fool now for 20 years. So what role do you see Fools around the world? Because playing in the foundation.

What role would you see yourself playing in the foundation? I remember that is my friend Anita because I know you and I've talked a lot.

Jennifer, you put me on the spire. So, one of the things that struck me the most was the transformation in the financial sector, right? So I tell the story about not understanding what my options were, how there was nothing like a Schwab slice or Robin Hood, and how there was simply no means for me to learn outside of my 401k, which made no sense to me. I believe that one way I may be of assistance is through my own philanthropy, perhaps carving out assets for these portfolios where individuals can participate. And I don't mean that in a negative manner; you must learn by doing, and I will give you an example. When it came to teaching my own son about money, I was a terrible mother. However, I did get the chance to work for one of the fractional companies. And I didn't even consider it. One of Tommy's accounts was correct. My son comes to me with analyst reports before I know it. Right now, my son is a jazz vocalist, therefore he should come forward. And you're talking to me about an Apple analyst report? Who has infiltrated my child's body? But what occurred was that the gamification, the language, and the approach that Robin Hood took with Tommy made it easy for him, it removed the barriers, and it removed the huge disclaimers about what's in your 401k. It did, however, make it simple. Tommy was an investor and narrowed his own wealth gap before I realized it. And he didn't have to rely on his mother for that. He didn't even need a college diploma to accomplish this. And he has stayed loyal to his word. So, as a Fool, I believe I'd like to take a bit of what I do in terms of philanthropy and replicate those scenarios for young people. And you may be able to learn early because you are required to learn it early. As we become older, we're all playing catch-up. But I can see the change in my own son's confidence as a result of it. And I think, like a Fool, that if I could recreate that use case, whether it meant having a secondary membership, mentoring, structuring a mentor, a mentorship, or whatever you want to call it, I'd be very comfortable implementing something like that. And then as your friend, we can talk offline. But I believe that's an important part of how we give back to the community as Fools and as aware capitalists.

The reason I asked you is that there isn't a single solution. And what I've discovered in the previous eight months of talking to full members practically every day is that each of them is doing something incredible in their community around this topic. In reality, only a few are very detailed on housing, health, or anything else, but the vast majority are educating someone in financial literacy in a pleasant way that ties everything together. And so I asked because I value you as a Fool and as a friend, and I value you as a friend first and foremost or vice versa. And I am without a doubt one of them. What do we believe we want to accomplish? Right now, I believe we're figuring it out. This, I believe, is a viable option. We don't yet know all of the answers. I'll guess it'll have something to do with education because that's where most people are. But I believe that one of the foundation's tasks is to not only do things through the foundation but also to make visible everything you're already doing. And, in that sense, I suppose you're thinking about a financial liberation movement involving millions of people across the country.

That sounds like something I'd be interested in. I was about to ask you what you'd like to be remembered for if you could only be remembered for one thing, but I really like the idea of a financial freedom movement, so maybe I'll steal it for myself, but maybe we can do it together. So I'm going to ask you a few more questions. So, what is it that keeps you awake at night? Apart from little children, what else?

I'm not sure. I'm stuck thinking about them for the rest of the night. What is it that keeps me up at night? Look, the country's inequities keep me awake at night. Period. I wake up every day thinking about how I can help unleash the most potential. Every night, I think about the injustices here and how we need to do something about them.

I've only asked one other guest this question, but I really wanted to ask you so that when you look back on your life as a 12 or 14-year-old Jennifer, what would make her happy if she knew what she knows now?

I'd say she's concerned about not leaving anyone behind. I believe that privilege is something that you have in life for a variety of reasons, particularly in this nation. Particularly if you're a white person in this country. You can't give up or leave someone behind, in my opinion. You must employ this in such a way as to bring the greatest number of possibilities to the table. I believe she would be pleased that I never leave anyone behind, whether they are on one of my teams or not. And I believe she'd be pleased that I shared her joy.

And what would make her cry?

The fact that she's not a dancer.

You are a dancer.

You don't want the pressure of everything else, no matter what you think. And that concludes our professional lives. So I don't know if she would.

Well, how wonderful is that? So I'm gonna ask you to leave us with a challenge. So what do you want to challenge us all to, to do or think about?

I'd like to push each of us to think beyond the individual intervention that we're currently engaged in. And many people are doing incredible things right now, both in terms of philanthropy and otherwise. But I believe that part of the reason we've been successful so far and will continue to be successful in the future is how much we're all thinking about. The fact that something isn't functioning properly. And it's possible that something isn't working due to a lack of connectivity. So, what are our options after that? Singular intervention, which is incredible; I'm sure it's incredible. What is the other component, the macro component, that truly unlocks something else? Is it merely a link to anything else? I'd simply challenge everyone to keep doing the incredible work they're doing, whether it's credit or housing. What is that other macro-pace, by the way? Because, if I were to come back to it, the thing that keeps me up the most at the end of the day is why isn't this all working? And there are so many well-intentioned people involved, amazing things are happening. And the wealth divide is still there, and it's getting worse. When you consider the income disparity between men and women, it's becoming worse. It's difficult to discuss without becoming furious and sad at the same time. So, what's the deal? So I believe that when I was at the fool, I was continuously challenging myself. Oh, I adore this idea. That's a fantastic idea. That's the route we're taking. And it does assist people in doing the thing that is currently assisting them, but what is the systemic connection piece? Because they're the key, which I believe we all know at this time, but the key is in them.

Learn them, accept them,

Learn them, accept them, and also revel indifference. And not just look for that similarity right away.

That's right. Thank you so much for today, Jennifer. Also, congratulations on the establishment of the foundation. It's been an honor to be a part of your accomplishment as a witness. And the success of The Motley Fool's foundation. And every time I hear you speak, I'm reminded of the adage that "it's more about the walk than the words." And I am confident that you will be successful. And I'm confident you'll address those concerns. In many ways, this idea of raising humanity's status and reducing the income gap is a good one. Those are massive undertakings, to say the least. So. I'm looking forward to working with you again. On this call, I would invite everyone to participate. Everyone is paying attention, become a Fool.

The link is [foolfoundation.org](https://foolfoundation.org/) and the foundation will be launching officially this spring.

Congratulations!

It’s been wonderful.

Everyone, please follow Jennifer, and thank you again for joining us today. Best wishes, and do let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist the Foundation. Thank you.

Thanks for joining us for today's episode of Working on Wellbeing brought to you by Salary Finance. I'm Anita Ward. At Salary Finance, our mission is to improve the financial health of working Americans by providing access to socially responsible financial products in the workplace. You can learn more about how you can partner with us to help improve your employee's financial well-being at salaryfinance.com. Don't forget to subscribe or follow so you don't miss an episode.