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82: Redefining Enough: Finding Peace Beyond the Hustle w/ Barbara Burgess
Episode 8221st October 2025 • ICONIK CEO • Nikisha King | Cert. Coach
00:00:00 00:42:46

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Let’s be honest, most women entrepreneurs are carrying far too much.

Client demands, expectations, constant decision-making… and somewhere in the middle of it all, we start losing ourselves.

In this heartfelt conversation, I sit down with Barbara Burgess to talk about what it really means to reclaim your peace without losing your power. Barbara’s story is a mirror for so many of us: ambitious, talented, driven women who’ve realized that success means nothing if it costs your sense of self.

Through her journey of self-acceptance, Barbara learned that peace doesn’t come from doing more; it comes from remembering who you are and choosing what actually matters. Together, we unpack how to set boundaries, simplify your workflow, and define enough in a world that constantly tells us we’re falling behind.

This episode is your reminder that saying no isn’t selfish, it’s sacred. That your time, energy, and creativity deserve protection. And that slowing down doesn’t mean you’ve lost your ambition, it means you’re building from alignment, not exhaustion.

If you’ve been craving more clarity, more calm, and more confidence in your business… this one’s for you.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • How to release burnout and rebuild your business around balance
  • Why “enough” can be your most powerful business strategy
  • Practical ways to set boundaries without guilt
  • How to simplify your workflow and reclaim your time
  • The link between self-acceptance, peace, and sustainable success

You don’t have to do it all to be successful.

You just have to be you.

🎧 Tune in and let this conversation be your permission to pause, breathe, and redefine what success truly looks like.

Connect with Barbara Burgess:

🌐 BarbaraBurgess.com

Barbara's Gift:

Sign up for Barbara's weekly inspiration at beenough.com and get entered to win a copy of Enough: Finding Peace in a World of Distractions, Hustle, and Expectations.

Connect with Nikisha King:

🌐 nikishaking.com/podcast

📸 Instagram: @nkbizguru

Transcripts

Welcome:

Welcome with your host and business guru, Nakisha King. This podcast is the ultimate destination for women creative entrepreneurs who want to break free from burnout.

If you are overwhelmed by client demands and feel like you're doing this all alone, you, my friend, are in the right place. Now let's dive in for steps to take back your time and simplify your workflow.

Nikisha:

All right, Nikisha, take it away. Hello, gorgeous. Welcome to Iconic CEOs. My name is Nikisha and I have an amazing guest today. I have Barbara.

Barbara Burgess is an author, a mother, an executive, and an unapologetic dark chocolate lover. And we'll talk a little bit more about that. Who's embraced the beautiful messiness of of life.

She founded Core Luma, which means Core in your heart, and Luma Light, a Chicago based consulting firm.

She wrote and performed a one woman show the extraordinary experience of being ordinary and most recently wrote her first book, enough in finding peace in a world of distractions, hustle and expectations. Welcome, Barbara. Thank you for joining us today on the iconic CEOs podcasts.

It's always a gift to have people in this realm who loves to come and share and we want to get to know you. So first, I want you to definitely share an apologetic dark chocolate lover. Because, guys, I'm going to be honest with you.

When I read this, I thought she was dating someone who was black, you know, and unapologetic. I was like a very handsome man.

Barbara:

She had the very handsome man in her mind, and now I do too. So.

Nikisha:

Yes, but it wasn't that. And that is perfectly fine. You are also a dark chocolate lover. So tell me, what's your favorite dark chocolate bar?

And do you do like a 80, 90%, like, where's your percentage?

Barbara:

You know, right now my favorite is the endangered species 88% extreme dark. And just because I think over time, like, I love it, my tastes have changed.

I mean, my friends joke like, if you're around me, you will have a selection of them. Like, I can, I can pull anything from 70 to 88%. Beyond that, it gets a little too bitter for me.

But we'll pull it on my bag because, like, life should be filled with treats that you enjoy and they should always be on you, in my opinion. So, yeah, it's. Nikki beautifully educated me before this about my word choices in a way that's just hilarious. But yeah.

So I don't make any apologies for the fact that I carry treats with me at all times. Yes.

Nikisha:

And they're dark chocolate, which a lot of people don't consume because of the bitterness from the cocoa. And I've come to like it. My husband and I use it.

I just like it because it gives me the ability to eat something that I believe in my heart is healthier than other chocolate. Like a Snickers bar or a crunch.

Barbara:

Yes, absolutely. Well, and that's how I started down that journey. Right. It's like trying to increasingly make better choices that your body responds to.

And, you know, I enjoy it, and, you know, my taste change over time. I think your tastes mature in different ways. And so, yeah, it's just a treat that is really fun and sweet.

But now you have to share about yours because you told me about your treat combo.

Nikisha:

Yeah. So I was sharing with Barbara. One of my treat combos is I use Tostitos whole whole grain chips.

And then I have a handful of cherries, but not cherries in a jar, like natural fruit cherries. And then I take a really small piece of dark chocolate.

Mines usually are infused with either, like, a orange or a raspberry, so it can give me that sweet. But I have, like, fruits and crunchy. And we learned that we both like crunchy things. So it all comes together in this beautiful.

Barbara:

And I'm convinced Nikki should, you know, put this out online and make it her own signature. Cause what an amazing combo.

Nikisha:

It's too funny. I had to really share that because that's like my popcorn.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

When I do shows, I'm like. And I always have cherries on hand when they're in season. When they go out, I'm just like, oh, my goodness.

Barbara:

Well, you will laugh, but not laugh. So I was in. Where was I? In Michigan. And of course, they've got all the farmers stands and all that kind of stuff.

So I brought back the largest bag of fresh cherries. And, yes, we had them available and on our counter.

But I also pitted and froze a bunch of them because I thought, oh, my gosh, we don't want to not have these when it's. When we can't get it fresh.

Nikisha:

I didn't know there was an option to freeze them.

Barbara:

Yes. Yeah.

Nikisha:

I had to look it up. It doesn't taste different.

Barbara:

I will. I will let you know.

Nikisha:

Okay.

Barbara:

I'll let you know. Until. But it's the first time I'm trying it, but yeah.

Nikisha:

So good to know. All right, perfect. So here's the thing. You are someone who's falling in love with yourself.

You're on your journey, and I want to talk a little bit more about some of the topics that you enjoy conversing about. You talk about taking outrageous risks, true to yourself. And I want you to share with me a moment in your life when you did just that.

When you chose self acceptance over approval, even when you felt scared of the outcome.

Barbara:

Such a beautiful, powerful question. I'm just gonna say what came to mind first, which is actually that one woman show, because it was never.

I never intended to write something to perform. It wasn't like in my mind, you know, to me, this is me and God.

At some point in time, you know, I was at a coffee shop and this thing started coming and I just was capturing it. And over time, I kept picturing it in my head and I thought, oh, gosh, I think this is supposed to be on a stage. I think I'm supposed to do it.

And it was outrageous. I'm like, why? What for? This has no purpose. It doesn't relate to, you know, all the cha cha and those things.

But even more importantly, in the show, you know, I'm sharing kind of these two parallel worlds.

Me here and this one and me in this place that's a parallel of our earth that has all the same resources, all the same people, all the same access, except they've made different choices, you know, to collectively support, to be authentic to whatever. It is just a place of abundance.

And so you get these two viewpoints, but in the one that's me here, there's a lot of vulnerability that's shared, you know, and I'm with my, you know, size 14, five three body. You know, when I'm performing, my belly rolls are there. You know, all the stuff, you know, I talk a bit about some stuff from childhood. All.

All those things. And so not only did I, you know, write this thing and. But it was so personal and revealing. And I'm actually a really private person.

I mean, I do public speaking, but I think you find a lot of us who do public speaking are also very private people.

And so to be in a theater with 90 people where everything is exposed, you know, physically and emotionally for no greater purpose other than I felt led to do, it was the probably most outrageous thing. And it was such an interesting, almost bodily sensation afterward. Like, I literally.

It was like being in an altered space because I had that moment of, well, if I could take all those things that I hide and put them on display on a stage in front of 90 people, then like, what is stopping me from doing anything else? You know, it was almost like a doorway to open into something. It was terrifying.

I remember being backstage with the curtains closed right in front of me, getting ready to push through them in that moment where my voice, everything was just dry, you know, it's like I couldn't get fine saliva to save my life. But I was like, we got this, honey, here we go. Right? And then just bam.

And it was not perfect, impeccable, you know, not that other people would know where the errors are, but I do, you know, and. But I did it and I let myself be that exposed and. But honoring my own authenticity, who I am and what I believe in.

Nikisha:

Let me ask you, in you exposing yourself in that way, do you recall at least one person who came up to you and received their message from that speech?

Barbara:

I was flooded with many people who did afterward, to the point like it was almost difficult to receive. I'm much better at giving, giving out than I am taking in. And so that was something that kept giving in that way. Right.

Because there were some people I expected that it would connect with the message who didn't. And then there were so many unexpected people, the least likely who were moved to tears and thanked me afterward.

And I think again that it's like the first exercise was being vulnerable.

The second exercise is being willing to genuinely receive someone else's acknowledgment because we think it's vulnerable to say something to someone or be in relationship. I think it is almost more vulnerable and intimate to receive, you know, to allow that into our physical space.

And that was a beautiful muscle exercise of that experience afterward, for sure.

Nikisha:

That's a good point.

In your journey of doing your one woman show and you speaking of how it started, there is something I learned, I think this year, because I did a speaking gig in June and I've come to learn that when we are speaking, it's not about us. When we make it about us, that's where the dry throat, that's where the response of nervousness comes in. The butterflies in the tummy.

And some people tell you it's good to have, and some people tell you they wish they can get rid of it. The way that I've learned how to get rid of it is because anytime I have it, I'm always worried about what people will think about me.

Becomes a me story.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

But when I reframe the thought and I'm like, there's someone this message is for and I'm just being used as a vessel, which you were used, then you realize there's no reason to be nervous because no one cares about you. Yeah, you're just a Delivery.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Right. No one like you say are looking at your roles. No one is looking at your height. No one. Because what you have to say is more important than you. Yeah.

And we are used as vessels when we're in a speaking capacity, especially since we're private people. And that's the joy I get out of it because it's the part where people receive exactly what they needed.

Barbara:

Yeah. Well, to your point, that's when I started my business and this whole book journey came about.

That's actually kind of the prayer space that I move into in that way. And I'm so. It's just lovely to hear you reflect it in that way and to picture myself back in that space in that way.

Because when I was early in the business, we all have that difficulty of rejection of any sort. Right. And I'm the person that I would do a training Delivery and there's 99 scores and 1 person doesn't like it.

And I'm looking at the one person historically. And so. So I'm aware of that. I'm very self aware.

I've done a lot of, you know, journeying over my lifetime and introspection and all those kinds of things. But, you know, I remember there was a big gig early on in my consulting practice that I thought I was going to get and I didn't get.

And you know, all that cha cha starts, you know, oh my gosh, you know, am I worth it? Am I not? Blah, blah, blah, all that stuff.

But it became a really radical spiritual choice for me that reminding myself that it's not about me, to your point. And so I do this exercise where I look at my hands and I will look at my hands and I'm like, I'm here to serve. And I almost just got teary on that.

That's what my job is. And so what I do now is because I'm often on, you know, as an executive coach, there's chemchat calls, people will interview a couple folks.

But I will, before I get on that call, I say a quick blessing and I say, if this is meant for me, please pull it to me like the strongest magnet ever imagined and let me be as open as possible to understand what I'm here to do, what my job is, et cetera. If this is not meant for me and not right, please pull it away from me dramatically, take it out of my space, et cetera.

And so to your point, the business I win or don't win is never about me. It's always about what I'm meant here to do.

And if someone's in front of me sometimes, and I'm sure you've been in this position, sometimes you have a client that's like, why are we here? You are not my style, not my values, not my. Like, how did I land in this space? Right. I will. I honor the fact that, like, I'm here for a purpose.

And so my job is to continue to discover what that is.

And some of the clients that have surprised me the most are the ones I did not have immediate kind of rapport style wise with, who are very different from me, you know, typically kind of hyper analyzer folks, you know, I'm very big in heart, you know, and if you're vary in detail in your head and I have a hard time getting through.

But some of those people are the ones that have come back with the most authentic acknowledgments and appreciation for just holding space for them and taking them on a journey, you know, of deepening whatever it is they're working on. And so I feel like it has proved out to be true of what you're saying that I am meant to be a vessel and it isn't about me.

And sometimes it's just not my, you know, earthbound brain to figure out the logic behind it. Right. Like, it's. There's a bigger story that I'm a part of and when I remember that, that helps.

But it's interesting when you were saying it, I don't think I've connected it to the speaking as much. I know the difference between when I have performed versus been present that I'm very conscious of.

And it's interesting because my wish that night for myself, you know, I had a lot of friends that were supporting me and cheering me on. And there were people in the audience that if I threw up on myself, they would still like, be right there for me. Right.

You know, you got your besties that are going to have your back no matter what. What my wish was, I knew I would perform and not embarrass myself. Quote unqu I said I want to really be present for the whole thing.

Like, it's an extraordinary thing I'm doing. I really want to be here for it.

And that was the thing that was the most important to me was that presence, which is the difference I feel when I'm serving versus, you know, there to put on a show or please someone. To your point.

Nikisha:

Such a good point. Just such a good point. There are moments when I speak my presence transform into being present.

Not Thinking of anything else, but not physically or mentally being there, something takes over and delivers a message. Because at the end of it, I never feel like I said anything important.

But in when people come up to me, it's like, you did say something that mattered to someone else.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

And I'm just like, it wasn't that good in my head. Yeah. But it had to be, because the people who received it received it in the way they needed to be. Yeah.

It's a very interesting experience when I have them, because I'm just like, but it wasn't that good for me.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Never anything's ever good enough for me.

Barbara:

Well, to that point in the show, there were several. Like when people came up and acknowledged certain things, they said I didn't remember.

It had no memory whatsoever because it was very, you know, at some levels, very scripted. But there is also room for, you know, me to modify as I went.

And I was truly creating live at that moment, you know, and so they would point something out, and I'm like, I will be very interested to see the video because I don't remember. Yes, you don't remember.

Nikisha:

It's like you leave for a little bit, right?

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

And it's not you, which is so cool about the whole experience.

Barbara:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikisha:

All right, so let me ask you another question. Your book, Enough touches on peace in a world full of hustle, Hustle, hustle, hustle.

What advice do you have for women or creative entrepreneurs who feel like they're constantly chasing more, but it still feels like they're falling behind? And these are rooms I'm in, and sometimes I express it where I know it's hustle mentality, and I just gotta be like, hold on.

I'm aware of it more now than I was in my past.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

But what advice would you have to share with them from your expertise?

Barbara:

Yeah, I think, you know, my. My first would probably be a question because just to. What you just said was, you know, they're going for more and more and more. But to what end?

You know, like, to what end? And I think there's. What we're conscious of, of the goals we set. And of course, as business owners, we do.

We set goals, we achieve them, we do all of those kinds of things. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think there's these unconscious, you know, spaces that we think, once this happens, then. Right.

Once I arrive, then it's all going to settle. Once I turn my business into 10 million, then this. All of a sudden, I'm going to have These things.

And, you know, my experience, my lived experience has just not been that. And that the best thing that I have found for myself is to go for the thing that I want and not wait for that milestone, that moment, that whatever.

Because most of those things, at the end of the day, it's not the money. It's what the money will do. Right? It's a. I'm looking for a little break in a lifestyle, or I'm looking for a deeper relationship.

I'm looking for something. Some intimate contact or connection. All of those things can be had regardless of that milestone being achieved. And my experience has been.

And this is where I say, literally enough. Moved herself into my life in a strong and powerful way.

When I'm orienting and she's truly sitting on my lap, then I don't have to, so that, you know, I can choose the peace now. And I have found the peace causes me to do more things than I might have done before.

You know, some people will think, well, if you do that, you're just settling, and then you're not gonna achieve your goals. If I stop that hustle, will I get the things done? I'm like, well, I'm stopping the hustle, and I'm getting more done. I don't.

I know that's contradictory, but, you know, if you had told me. I mean, I started my business, and within a year, I had, you know, written and submitted the book and performed the show, like, what?

You know, and built business, like, and did all those things. And so, you know, and, oh, by the way, I didn't do sales the way I had been trained. I did it the way my heart felt like doing it.

Like, I just did everything differently than what people had been advising me on, right? To a great degree, which I think is an opportunity that we, as women have more than ever is to really stop and go, wait a minute.

This model and system we're living in, like, yeah, no, are we kidding? If we were designing from scratch, is this what we built? No. Right? And I think for me, that's what that hustle is. Is like.

It is to prove myself, you know, and it's not like I'm immune to it or above it. I'm just better at catching myself when I am. You know, I will have a moment. Like, I was at a block party the other day, and I.

You know, you're in and out of your house. You know, we do a big potluck dinner. You know, you're bringing stuff in and out and all that kind of stuff.

And I had a moment of walking in and realize, ooh, you're. You're doing that thing. You're scrambling. You're trying to, you know what you fake. You're not. You're not in your body here.

Somebody just left the building unconsciously, you know, and what's that about? Right? So it's not that I never get in that mode, but I try to catch it and bring myself back.

And so I think that my advice on it is, I think first is just to reset the framework, to really have a good, clear understanding of what am I then going to get out of this thing I've achieved and is it possible to get that thing without it? So for me, this morning, I had a cancellation for an appointment.

My old self would have been on to my next 16 emails and da, da, da, da, and whatever I have to do. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's what I felt called to do at that moment and would bring me the most pleasure. But it's beautiful out.

It's going to rain later. You know, it's like I put on my shoes and walked around the block.

I mean, even for me, walking around the block without a mile goal, without a how much you're going to achieve without a blah, blah, blah, blah, is transformation. It is truly a new thing to just walk without agenda, to be. And then even that.

I came back and we have a front porch, and I was tempted to sit on the front porch. I'm like, why would you sit on the front porch? You know, like, you watch the little chatter, like, to what end are you.

Is that going to be an intentional rest? And then I just laughed at myself, right? And I'm like, I guess, because I just feel like it. So I did.

And I sat out there and listened to some beautiful music in my headphones. And I would not have done that. And I. That was peace. That was peace right there in that moment.

That before this concept of enough came into my life, I would not have made those choices before.

Nikisha:

Right, that is a good point. You know, a lot of what you shared is a good amount of things I can relate to.

Because before I used to have an apple watch and it stopped working and I decided not to get one again. And when I did get one, those rings, when you go walking and they close, they make you feel like, oh, my God, you have achieved something.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

And today without it, I still know when I did two miles, because it's the same route exactly. And I don't need a ring to close to tell me I did it, I achieved something.

And I think about what you say, just put your shoes on and what else you did that I don't know if you notice, but when someone canceled, you didn't complain about the cancellation, didn't complain how they took your time up. Use your time in a way where you got to reap that time back.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

You got the opportunity to go, oh, they canceled.

Barbara:

Great.

Nikisha:

I'm gonna go walk around the block, sit on my porch, listen to music, have time with myself. That brings me joy and peace.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Allows me to be present with myself. Yeah. And I think that's a gift. Right. And I don't know if everyone has the availability to that gift.

You buy choice, but not by norm, malice, like normal behavior.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

And we do have to choose it. But once you do choose it, it becomes part of your norm. Yeah. Because of your awareness on it.

Because when you had the bickering about, like, why would you sit on the porch? You can go do this.

You're like, no, but I just want to sit on my porch and listen to my music and not feel like I have to rush because for the next thing. Yeah. And these are some of the things I enjoy giving to the people I work with. Because it's a reframe. The question is always, why?

Why do you have to run to the next email? What will happen if you don't do it? Yeah. Right. And normally the outcome is not any different if you do or you don't.

And I think we don't realize that.

Barbara:

Well, I. I joke with a lot of my clients. Like, I. In my cause, I used coaching before when I was an executive.

And so one of the coaches that worked with me, he says, he go, you know, you are amazing at one skill above all skills. I said, what is that? And he said, catastrophizing.

You know, I could easily tell you everything that was going to go wrong or could go wrong about something. Right. Which is actually not a bad skill to have because it does help you prepare for things.

It helps you look and see what might be vulnerable, what's weak, what you might need to solidify. Taken to an extreme, it's really problematic because that's how I begin to view the world. Right. And so that is something to the point.

You were just saying, oftentimes when I'm working with clients, I do go to that extreme and say, okay, let's pretend that worst case scenario is happening. Right. Is anybody dying? Is the building going to be on fire? Right. And to your point, Most of the time it's not.

And even for me, like, this happened to be a generous amount of time, but that could be five minutes. Yesterday I had this where I was doing a 360 interview with a guy for, you know, scheduled for a half hour, and it was just only 20 minutes.

We got through it in 20 minutes. And so it was that same, you know, it could be 10 minutes, it could be two minutes.

But what you can do when you get to be with yourself, following yourself in a short period of time, to me, it almost feels like endless space. You know, it's. It's two minutes can feel like 20 if we get the muscle practice of, you know, slowing down to be with ourselves.

Which is what I, you know, hear in your invitation of really asking that question.

Nikisha:

Yeah, yeah. And it's important. It allows us to reclaim self. Yeah. Give so much of ourselves.

Barbara:

Well, I think people talk so much about, and particularly for women, about self care, and I think a lot of the examples you're giving, I used to hate when people would say, like, oh, just self care, blah, blah. It felt like one more thing to do.

I was failing at, you know, and even still, like, I can't find time to do the massage or the this or the that or whatever it is. And I think the ability to be with myself now, to slow down, to follow myself, that is self care.

You know, it doesn't even have to cost anything, and I don't even have to go anywhere. It really is having that moment to say, yes, no. Here's what she's calling for from the inside, right?

And in my experience of life and for your listeners, I experienced Nikki totally differently than this. She's the most present podcast host I think I've had. But in my experience in life, you know, that.

That drive, that going out of my body, that all of that kind of spin thing, that was the norm, right? And so to allow that slowing down and being present, I think is a radical act for most of us.

And that's, again, I say for you, I can feel your presence. Like, I feel that you said it to me at the beginning. It's your norm.

I can feel that in a way that is highly unusual for most of us popping through the world. Right? And so I feel like it's an invitation for the rest of us to see what that's like, see what that journey is. See, you know, oh, my God.

Because I think there's a part of the little kid, trauma survivor, right, who's like, if I do that, bad things will Happen if I do that, you know, really in the DNA piece and there's a retraining in. And again, what I'm discovering and what enough has been teaching me is, no, when I do that, things really go quite much better. Beautifully. Lovely.

Nikisha:

Yeah, they do. Sometimes. Sometimes my normalcy of being at peace within, there's discomfort for me.

People don't realize that because, one, I will always get my voices calming and I will always think, is it too calm? Is it going to put them to sleep? Like, all the things. Right. Because I don't hear what everyone else hears.

Barbara:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikisha:

And sometimes I will change it up because of that thought. But then there's moments I have to go, no, Nikisha, this is who you are.

And it wasn't always because my family will tell you I'm loud, because when I get very excited, my tone increases, my volume increase. But it's not that I'm upset, upset. It's just that I'm like, extra happy about something.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

And everyone doesn't get that side of me because when I'm asking questions, I'm really curious. That doesn't give you an increased tone. That gives you. I'm curious. So I'm like, all ears. Yeah, no mouth, all ears. I'm in the story with you. Right.

And I'm learning this about myself and I'm accepting it and I'm enjoying it. And I'm like, no, just consistently be who you are. Because it's what someone needs. That's why they're here.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

And that's it. But we all question what we have. Yeah, we all do is like human nature. It's part of, I guess, our DNA. It's part of what we know.

Because before us, genetically, there were people surviving that we don't have to do all that today. So.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

Right.

Barbara:

So I'm going to ask you another.

Nikisha:

Question I want to get to. Before. Let's talk about the power of saying small no's. And this is something, as women, we're learning how to do more.

Sometimes I think we take it to the extreme, and I want. I want to hear your take on it. Why do you think boundary setting feels so hard for women?

And how can we start practicing unapologetic boundaries today, but not to the place of extreme? How can we have a boundary?

Or how can we say, this is not for us and be totally okay with that, rather than talking about, you cut everyone off and these people are your family and all the things like, how do we find that beautiful middle where I can have My boundary. Like, you're not gonna. Your words won't knock me off my seat, but at the same time, I could be around with you and hear you and understand you.

Barbara:

Yeah. And for me, I'll say there's a. There's like a two parallel path experience that I've had.

Like, the boundaries have come with the increased sense of self, you know, they have lived in parallel in that way. Because it is difficult to draw a boundary when I don't even know myself. Right. And so in the beginning, I allowed myself a total playground.

And to your point about extreme, I did go extreme, but I allowed myself to go extreme so I could find the middle again. Because how do I know where that boundary is unless I kick up against it? Right?

So there was a big period of time where I just withdrew because I'm discovering myself. But it's almost like the caterpillar that goes internal and becomes a gelatinous mass truly becomes a pile of goo to discover the butterfly aspect.

Like, I reserve the right to do that, but I find that the more I discover myself in that way, the more I am able to be exposed in a wide variety of situations and still tend to myself. Right. But the.

They come hand in hand because, you know, and I give in the book some examples, like there are certain no's that are easy to say in some ways once you develop the muscle, like something that truly crosses your value set or boundaries or those kinds of things. But the small nos were the ones I was having difficulty with. Like, you know, a friend has a ticket to an event and invites you to go.

Well, if you're free, you should go, was what my mindset was not. Okay, I am free. That's a free moment I have. What are the many ways I could spend that free moment?

And is this the most right one for me, given what I know right now? You know, very different sorts in those regards.

But if it wasn't, let's say, you know, gosh, no, I actually want to be at home wrapped up with tea in a book or binge watching a show. If that's what mostly appealed to me, then the small no is the practice. And those were the things I had less practice with. Right.

So to be able to say thanks so much for inviting me, but not a fit for me, Right. And without having to say, because I have this conflict.

Because at the beginning, when I started saying small nos and friendship and relationship circles, people are like, oh, do you have a conflict? Oh, do you? Are you doing something else? Oh, blah, blah, blah, right?

Like, they're asking you, you know, and so, you know, to even have that mustard saying, no, you know, I'm just going to be with myself. Nope. I just want to take it easy. Nope. You know, whatever it is. So that is a less socially comfortable one, you know, historically for many of us.

And so. But.

But that, to your point about what's too extreme, I feel like that is always refining, you know, it's always refining because the world is dynamic. Things are always changing. We. Where I am right now in this moment is different than where I was last week, is different than where I'll be next week.

And so, you know, to allow all of that. But also the sense of self is changing.

So the more I honor who I am, get to live in my skin, delight in, you know, unapologetically being myself in all the spaces, the more I'm clear about what's a resonant chord and what's not. And sometimes I'm not. And sometimes I make a choice and I'm like, eh, might not have been the best. That's okay, too.

Nikisha:

Right.

Barbara:

It's not about some perfect script, because I don't think there is one, but it is about increasingly discovering myself for me. And the more I discover myself, the more I can know what's right, what's not right, what fits, what doesn't fit in any given moment.

Nikisha:

So true. It was interesting when you spoke about the small note. I had a moment yesterday where someone invited me to something.

My brain interpreted like, I do not want to go to this. And when I wrote the no, there was a because. And I was like, why does the because have to exist in this?

Why can't I just be like, no, have a great time and let me know how it went.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

And then, by the way, let's just.

Barbara:

Capture that phrase that Nikisha just said. That's a beautiful phrase. Right. Usable anytime. No, but have a great time. Wish you well.

Nikisha:

Yeah. Let me know how you enjoyed it. Yeah. But I knew it wasn't for me. And I was like, I don't need to give a reason why it's not for me.

I don't need to push my thoughts of why I wouldn't go on it. I was like, that's for me. That was a little selfish. I was like, I don't need all of that. Yeah. All I had to say was no, but thanks for inviting me.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Let me know how you enjoyed it. Yeah. Was better than giving the no, because I don't want to do that.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

Yeah. Right.

Barbara:

And Again, I think, to me, it's about authenticity. Right. You know, even for me, when I'm at my highest and best, I do wish others well, regardless of what my choice has been.

I want them to have the best time they could possibly have, whether I'm there or not. And so that is almost a more authentic ring than the little kid. Like, no, I can't stand being there.

That one's a little more reactive than the, I'm honoring my choices. You're honoring your choices. You know, that's the most important part. It is.

And I think as you begin to experiment with this, at least for me, you know, people don't always like it either. And so that was an exercise in being okay with that.

You know, I had a close friend who got very, very upset because I had just free volunteered to support an event a couple times, and there was another one coming up, and I had been out of town for work, literally was getting back in town. It was that night.

And then I was, you know, off to the races the next day, and I just was already tired, you know, and we were days out, and she hadn't asked me at all, and I wasn't even sure. I wasn't even sure if it was going on. You know, I just remembered that she had said one was coming up.

So she had reached out and said, you know, listen, I'm looking forward to the event, and I haven't decided if I want you doing this or this. And I just had a moment. I was like, wait a minute, hang on a sec. You know, love what you're thinking about for the event, but not a fit for me to go.

And I didn't explain the whole tired and thing like that, because I had been in the practice of not needing to do that. I could have. It's a fine option.

But she later called me and kind of yelled at me like, I don't know who you think you are, treating me this way, and da, da, da, da. You know, and it was really educational about our friendship. And again, we've moved past, through and past that, but it had nothing to do with me.

To your point earlier, this had to do with her upset about her expectations and what she thought and what she wanted and what it meant for me to not be a yes to that event. That's what it was about. It had nothing to do with my choices, but I had to be comfortable with the.

You're yelling at me right now, and, you know, this isn't the fit for me. I'm gonna be hanging up the phone now, you know, And. But I mean. And I didn't have a. You know, this is somebody I've known for a long time.

I didn't know if that would work itself out or not. But that was part of. Again, having this sense of enough. Like, it's okay if it doesn't.

If this person is not meant to be intimately in my life right now, that's okay. Because the higher value, the higher calling is this increasing sense of rightness for myself.

Nikisha:

Got you. Got you.

Barbara:

And to that point, when I am, I can serve more. You know, I think we often think, well, that's so selfish. You're just taking care of yourself. I'm like, yep, I am.

Nikisha:

Or you can give them a full cup.

Barbara:

Yeah, for sure. And. And I think that's an ongoing practice many of us have as women is. What is it to fill up that cup, you know? But when women.

You can feel when women are giving from that full cup, it is so different than when they're not. You're receiving the same gifts, activities, things, but the space around it is so qualitatively different.

Nikisha:

You show up differently, period. You show up differently. Your words are different. There's so much mannerism that cheap in it.

I usually can see it because most of the times when you know it's not from a full cup, there's a high vibration, but it's a. Like, it. It pulls more energy than give energy.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

Yeah.

Barbara:

It's like.

Nikisha:

And I'm like, oh, my God, you are killing me right now.

Barbara:

But, but, but I love what you just said. There's more that's pulling than giving. That is so true. You can feel that drain.

Nikisha:

And I'm just like, you need to bring it down because you're vibrating high. You're like, oh, and what is this? Yes, commentate. Like, I'm like, let me help you.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

That's why I know when I'm really calm, because my calmness would put people in calmness, and I don't mean to do it. There's people I've been around that I got really weird with my energy. I'm like, you just drained me. And I didn't even do anything yet.

And I was like, what's happening?

Barbara:

How'd that happen?

Nikisha:

Yes. And I was like, whoa. And I'm like, I have to just remove myself. Yeah. And it's not all people. There are.

Barbara:

Yes.

Nikisha:

People that have had that experience. Sounds like this is a very interesting dynamic.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Experience it and be like, I didn't know this even existed. But when you're aware of it, you can feel it. You can feel your people. You can love your people from a full cup. And it doesn't matter who they are.

Barbara:

No, it does not.

Nikisha:

Yeah. Yeah.

Barbara:

And. And to your. To your point, somebody gave me advice years ago that I've, you know, used for myself and with other people too.

But you just described it, which is, you know, when you're in these interactions with people and you walk away, you know, does your energy feel expanded? Does it feel, you know, uplifted? Does it feel centered and grounded? Or, you know, do you feel less than for some reason?

Like, they can be the most important person in the room. But if I walk away feeling less than about myself, it's usually not about me.

It's usually about something in that dynamic that isn't as obvious from the words, but it was real clear in the energy. If you could just tune into what that was.

And that's one of the things that I've learned as far as who I surround myself with and when and all those kinds of things.

Not to be ultra protective, but, you know, when I need to be uplifted, I choose who I'm with and who I call versus other situations where it's like, I really literally, with some humans, will block off my energy. Like, I will be there, it will look like we're interacting, but I will not allow an exchange for that very reason.

And I don't know the logic of it, but I feel like I don't have to figure it out. I just know, right?

Nikisha:

Here's the question for you, because my experience now is I don't usually have to worry about those boundaries anymore because they're not attracted to me. Those people don't even want to be around me because I'm just too positive.

And I realize I don't have to do as much work because the repelling happens. And my people attract to me like magnets, and I attract to the hem. And I just love on them because they're freaking amazing.

But the people who may be a repellent, like, it just doesn't. It doesn't feel like it happens a lot, doesn't really happen.

Barbara:

And Mikisha, I think you're writing enough 2.0, because I hear you and I'm not yet in that space. I will say that. And to your point, though, you know, compared to a handful of years ago, do I have a lot of upsetting people enter my life?

Absolutely not. You know, it is nothing that it's not usual, but I'M still not in that space of, you know, that real energy resonance where there's almost like.

What I sense for you as you're talking is there's almost like this force field around you, and it repels and attract in an ongoing way with a huge engine. I'm not yet there. You know, I have had experience of it, I have touched it. I, I know that that's there, but it's not a way of being for me yet.

Nikisha:

Okay, got it, Got it. Because that's the thing. Because people will ask me and I just know, like, I don't. And I'm okay with it.

Never been a. I want, I want them to all, like. I don't want no one to all like me. I have come. Really. Okay. It's okay not to be liked. Because if you don't like me, there's something else about that.

That's something about you. And what don't you like? And if you don't like it, is it because you want some of it? I'm happy to give it.

But you only can receive it if you choose to. And that only takes your time and your awareness. And I have to let people be.

And when that moment happens, it's not like I don't receive them because I didn't know they didn't like me, but I receive them in the right time that it's meant to be.

Barbara:

So I think that's a vision. I think it's a vision for people.

I mean, I really do, as you're talking about it, because again, you know, I, I, you know, there's this concept of the internal locus of control and external locus of control, you know, external locus of control.

As I'm scanning outside to see what everybody's thinking in order to decide who I am, what I want, what I need, internal locus of control means it starts here. I'm, I'm tuning in, looking in and discovering what's there in order to radiate that out.

And I think if you go back in my career and my life and entrepreneurship, if you go back 10 years, it was full external locus of control. And I think I've continued to move and the Enough Book and that Enough Journey has moved that locus of control deeply inside.

But it's not all the time. Right. And so I think that's, you know, how I'm hearing the distinction. Because for me, perfectly.

Yeah, for me, what I'm doing is catching myself when I don't. Right. So it's not in a place of like, that just doesn't happen for me. It's like, oops, there you went. It's kind of like with a block party.

Oh, there you went again, honey. You know, and that's part of the kind. Little. Come on back in. That's okay. You know, you made a little. Little blip there. We're getting it right.

You know, that's kind of the. The internal voice of Enough. You know, journeying with me in that regard. But I think that's. It's all on a continuum almost. Right.

Till I would imagine there's a place that I may arrive at which is more where you are, which is that space of pure radiance, but not there yet.

Nikisha:

Yes. And you're right, because every. All of us transition, and that's a transition that I went through, and I had a lot of material to help me transition.

Barbara:

So my bloody pocket.

Nikisha:

Yes, my happy pocket full of money was one of those transition. Letting go by Hawkins was another one. Because I didn't know about frequency. I just knew I am. I desired something different.

So when I started to transition into that, my coaching certification from my life coach school, these were all big pillars that helped with the transformation. I couldn't do it by myself. I don't believe we're meant to do things on our own. Yeah. So those were the transition. The transitions.

And they all spoke a similar language.

Barbara:

Yeah.

Nikisha:

Frequency. So I dialed into that station and I was like, I like this station. Yeah. Yeah. This gives me a little bit more peace in my life.

Barbara:

I love that.

Nikisha:

And then I practiced. Yeah, that's it. Right. That's what we all do. And the awareness is number one. Yeah, I got that.

Barbara, it's been really good having you on the iconic CEO podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your gift of seeing my presence. It's one of the things I love, and it's.

It brings immense joy to my heart. And thank you for allowing me to. To see through you, because deep in your lotus of internal. That is me.

Don't have the words, but you're giving me the words. I'm like, well, what is this? I want to learn more about this.

Barbara:

Right.

Nikisha:

So thank you for your wisdom.

Thank you for sharing this all with our listeners, because there are people out here going through specific things, and these messages help them transition into who they want to be and finding their peace as well.

Barbara:

Well, I. I consider it a great honor to have been here and been present. And to me, it's like the best aspect of going to church. So you know for your listeners.

I hope that as you have Nakisha in your ears, that's what you allow in because it's allowable.

Nikisha:

Thank you. Thank you.

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