The primary focus of this podcast episode is the profound exploration of soul care, as discussed by our guest, Kevin Taylor. Throughout our dialogue, we delve into the significance of recognizing one’s limits and the necessity of intentional pauses in life, particularly amidst the demands of ministry and leadership. Kevin poignantly articulates that soul care is not merely a luxury but rather an essential fuel for sustaining both personal well-being and effective service to others. He shares his own experiences with health challenges, illustrating how forced pauses can lead to deeper communion with God and a greater understanding of our purpose. Through thoughtful insights and practical applications, this episode aims to encourage listeners to prioritize their spiritual health and embrace the power of intentional reflection in their daily lives.

Takeaways:

• In today's Back Channel with Foth, we delve into the significance of sensitivity to the Holy Spirit when communicating with others.
• We discuss the importance of understanding when to speak or remain silent, guided by spiritual insistence.
• The conversation emphasizes that soul care is essential, serving as fuel for our spiritual lives rather than a luxury.
• We explore the three V's of communication: verbal, vocal, and visual, highlighting their impact on effective interactions.
• The episode touches on the necessity of confession and community support in healing and overcoming struggles in life.
• We reflect on personal experiences of forced pauses in life and how they can lead to spiritual growth and deeper connection with God.

Greetings, and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to be here today with our friend of the podcast, Dick Foth, on another session of Backchannel with Foeth.

And then we're going to jump into our interview with Kevin Taylor on Daily Rebellion.

Dick, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks a bunch.

I know people can't see your face, but I can see it.

And I'm just saying, folks, it's a good face.

It's okay.

Appreciate it.

Dick.

We were just in D.C. a few weeks ago, and my wife and Dick both like Brussels sprouts.

So she was.

She was lamenting that Dick was not there to eat Brussels sprouts with her because this.

This face would not eat them with her.

So, anyway, burnt and flavored.

Oh, they were straight up.

That's it.

But you both like them.

But I just.

I said it's just more for her.

It was just more for her.

So.

All right, two questions for you, Dick.

Not about Brussels sprouts.

All right, so here's the first question.

When it comes to sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, when you feel like you need to share something with somebody, how have you learned when to speak or wait for more confirmation?

It's a really interesting question because I had to pause and say, okay, when.

When does that happen?

In the last year or 10 years or whatever.

And I think for me, depending on what it is, it's whether I sense the insistence of the spirit, if it keeps.

If he keeps, you know, coming, niggling, if you will.

Sure.

And.

And I feel like, you know, I really need to do this.

And usually we don't move on it because we feel, well, it'll be dumb.

I'm calling them out of the blue or whatever it is and are going to talk to them, and they're going to think I'm dumb.

And what if it's not right?

But I think most folks are grateful when somebody comes to them and said whatever it is because.

Because you've thought of them.

When we were doing a church plant years ago near the University of Illinois, there's a little town south of us in Illinois called Mattoon.

One day, driving through Mattoon, and outside the Baptist church, First Baptist Church, they had a sign that says, don't worry about what people think of you.

They rarely do.

So if I'm moved by the spirit of God to actually go and say something to someone, whatever it is, for, because we're friends or because I sense I should do it, they know that you have come to mind.

They know.

Or that they have come to Your mind.

And I think that in and of itself is a gift.

Yeah, for sure.

Dick.

The second question they tied with it was how can you share what you feel the Holy Spirit is impressing you without coming off as overbearing or manipulative?

You know, it's interesting when it, when it comes to communication, there's this thing and again you can look it up, you know, just go online, check it out.

But there are these.

It's called the three V's of communication.

Verbal, vocal and visual.

Now, I'm a person that think, that thinks that words matter.

And it's because I have so many of them because I was a stutterer from age 5 to age 28.

Right.

But what's interesting is this.

In the studies that have been done research, words are 7% of communication.

That freaked me out.

But words are 7%.

Tone is 38%.

Wow.

Body language is 55%.

Watch, watch people on television.

Watch how they sit back, arms crossed or they lean in or whatever it is.

Watch people in a congregation.

Recently, our new younger pastor here in Colorado and I did a thing side by side.

It wasn't he preaching or I preaching.

It was side by side having a conversation about the text.

And the thing that we noticed, or I noticed at least, was that during that 25, 35 minute thing, how still it was in the congregation and somebody came to me and said I was sitting toward the back and people were leaning in because it was a conversation, they were wanting to hear that back and forth piece.

So I think that sharing what we feel the spirit is saying without coming off overbearing or manipulative.

If you are going with an open heart and a good spirit, people will not feel dumped on or backed into a corner or that sort of thing.

And oftentimes, you know, if I share something with somebody, I'll say, you know, I think this is the spirit.

I think the Lord put this in my heart.

But you know, it might not.

But anyway, so no good word.

And that gives the ability to not be overbearing and not manipulative.

Well, and it might just me being chicken hearted.

I don't think so.

I don't think people can tell by the tone.

Yeah, I didn't.

That makes it make 38% of what we communicates tone and, and the importance of, of that.

Specifically in the Rush world we live in.

Specifically in the Rush world we live in.

So Dick, always enjoy our time with Back Channel with folks.

We're going to go ahead and jump into our interview with Kevin Taylor from Daily Rebellion.

Well, there's no time better than now to get started, so here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to have a new friend with us on the podcast.

Kevin Taylor.

Welcome to the podcast, Aaron.

Thanks for having me.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Really excited for this time together.

Yeah.

You're in Wisconsin.

Today I'm in almost heaven.

Well, this isn't West Virginia.

This is Springfield.

So this is the queen city of the Ozarks.

And looking forward to having a conversation.

Kevin, for someone who's not yet got to meet you, will you share a little bit about yourself, the things you.

You would value people to know?

And before we jump into our conversation.

Sure.

My wife Jolene and I pastor Journey Church.

We've been here for.

Actually in October, it'll be 30 years.

Wow.

Somebody sometimes asked me, the church is 90 years old.

Okay.

So every now and then I'll say that to people and, and they.

Their response will be, so did you start the church?

And I think, okay.

In the backup.

Not bad.

But it's been a pleasure.

It's been really the joy of our life to be at Journey in Wisconsin and a great team.

Our church is in five locations and we have a campus in Lithuania.

So it's just been a beautiful journey, no pun intended there, but just a great.

Jolene has found herself on the world missions board.

She just actually rotated off, but just a big heart for missions and for the world.

And the church has become that, that, that church.

So it's, it's beautiful to pastor it.

Yeah.

And it's.

I've had the opportunity to interact with you and your wife a few times and love your heart for, for people and love your heart for the world.

And, and yeah, I'm great, excited to spend some time today talking about Daily Rebellion and love the catchy title for sure.

So, so let's start this.

So what, what prompted you to write this book?

Actually, you mentioned the title because that was not the original title.

Okay.

It was press pause.

And I said that with a few people just to say, hey, just help me.

Just give me your thoughts on it.

And a couple people came back and said, super boring title, Kevin.

So I said, okay, I'm going to take that advice and come up with the second advice, Daily Rebellion, and went on Amazon and found out there was not another book on Amazon that title.

There were other press pause.

So I thought, okay, that was probably good advice.

Yeah.

So I went to a silent prayer retreat about a dozen years ago, and that really was the impetus for me, me doing what I'm doing today, just writing quarterly soul care guides for our team.

But it really came out of that.

But honestly, it was probably a few years before that that I found myself kind of drifting.

Ministry was great and metrics were fine and people liked us and it was all of that, but I really found myself doing work and ministry out of my own energy.

Somebody said I didn't make this up, but doing the work of the Lord without really experiencing the Lord of the work.

And I would find myself spiritually exhausted.

I.

One day.

I'm not sure this is the best way to start a podcast, but I was at such a.

Such a low point, honestly, in my life, and nobody really knew it, that I pulled into my garage one one afternoon and I put the garage door down behind me and just.

The thought just flickered.

It was just a flicker, you know, I wonder how long this takes.

And I instantly knew where the source of that voice was, that it was the enemy of my soul.

You know, I remember sitting there with my hands on the steering wheel in my garage, looking at the front, front wall at 10 and 2, like you're supposed to, with.

And tears just rolling down my cheeks to say, God, this isn't.

It's not supposed to be like this.

Yeah.

And that, I think, combined with the silent prayer retreat where God really spoke to me, that first silent prayer retreat, which I found super odd in some ways because you're not supposed to talk, but people were walking really slow, monk like, and their eyes were cast down.

They weren' other.

That's part of the instructions for the retreat.

And I thought, you know, I don't know, when in Rome, just, you know, do what everybody else is doing.

And though it was a little odd, God spoke to me in a way that was uncommon.

And out of that, I realized I need to care for my soul in a way that is uncommon.

Yeah.

So that's what write the book, Kevin.

Thanks for your authenticity.

I'm going to go back just a little bit.

You're sitting in a garage, your hands are on 10 and 2.

What were.

Because somebody listening.

And that's going to resonate with maybe not exactly that situation in a garage, but they're at a place where they're, as you said, a flicker, an attack from the enemy.

What were your next steps from there, if you don't mind sharing?

I just think I identified the spiritual exhaustion that I was dealing with, you know, where you're not sure you want to show up the next day.

And I think that my next step was just to recognize that first of all and then to what are the steps out of that?

I don't think they're necessarily dramatic where all of a sudden you have to put a 10 point plan together with simply spending more time with Jesus.

That was part of it where God says, can you just stay a little bit longer?

I think part of the abiding with Christ and remaining with Christ, which you write about in the book a little bit, that that's what he's asking, you know, can you can just sit with me and I'll.

I'll show up for you when in the car.

You know, I mean, obviously I, I turned the engine off at some point.

Right, right.

And it's a recognition that God was with me in the car.

Yeah.

You know, was.

He had not divorced me or abandoned me or left me.

He was there.

And I think that's what the first thing that flickered was.

Just spend some time with me.

I will show up.

And I think because that exhaustion doesn't just rush in, it drifts in.

And I think that's why it becomes so difficult, because you don't notice it all at once.

You don't notice it until it's taken over more of you and it's drifted in.

And that's why we have to pay such attention to it, because it does drift.

Yeah.

And the second part of that, I would imagine as a pastor of a church for 30 years, you'd been to conferences, retreats, you've been to other things.

Right.

And I would imagine over those and probably over your whole life, but you go to this prayer retreat and this, it's an encounter and it changes.

How did you not just walk away from that prayer retreat and say, you know what, I'm just going to go back.

You probably had a busy schedule, a lot of things to do and just not go back into the routine you came out of.

Any thoughts on that?

You know, I started to think about more than myself in that moment and realized our team that needs soul care, you know, it isn't just me.

I think God turned my attention even off of myself to all the people that I was called to lead in a week or a month or a year.

And I think that was part of the passion that started to well up inside of me was that you have other people.

In fact, I was walking down the hallway of our church after one of our.

So from the soul care before I wrote the book, I started to write soul care guides for our team.

That's really what came out of this, I just wanted to help our team be healthy.

But it started with the pastoral team.

So I just.

Three or four times a year, they would go off for the morning and they would have a guide that I'd written for them, and then they would connect with one another over lunch and kind of download it.

And after one of those mornings, I was walking down the hallway and one of our team members, who's not a pastor, came up to me and said, hey, today was soul care day for the, for the pastors.

Really not a question, but it was a statement that was, you know, he was saying something more, and I just answered, yes.

And I said, you know, it's important that they care for their souls.

Basically like that.

And his response flattened me against the wall, to be honest.

And I don't think I've ever been the same since that moment.

He said, you know, I have a soul too.

Yeah, right.

Wow.

And it was in that moment that I said, yeah.

I mean, I have to care for everybody or help everybody just be well.

And I think that that passion to help others be well just helped myself be well, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

And the desire to do it, I think, Kevin, your heart is.

And it's an honor to walk with people.

It's an honor to serve them.

When you talk about a spiritual care guide, sorry, I'm digressing in different directions, but you're bringing a lot of good things up.

What is a spiritual care guide?

Care guide.

Soul care guide.

Sorry, Soul care guide.

You talked about that.

When you write those.

What does that look like?

And then I'll, I'll get back to the, the questions I sent you.

How about that?

That's good.

Actually, there's.

At the end of the book, there's a.

There's a one hour soul care application at the end of each chapter, kind of based on that chapter.

What I've done is it's a lot of.

It's contemplation, I think, or I just set up some, some general questions for the team to say, hey, here's what I want you to ponder on.

Kind of based on, you know, a certain passage, John, chapter 15 or one of the Psalms, for instance.

But it might be, you know, examining the fruit of the spirit in your life.

So, you know, you just walk down those nine fruit and say, hey, where do you see evidence of that life?

And which ones do you just need to ask God to, you know, cultivate in a greater way in your life?

It's really not.

And I think that's the issue.

We make things so complicated.

And it's not complicated.

It's simply taking a step forward.

And so those guides are relatively simple.

They're just examining John 15, the vine, and Jesus Is that.

And what does it mean to you?

And we'll soap that together.

So scripture, observation, application, prayer.

So that's what those are.

And then opportunities to write some things that God's speaking to you.

Yeah.

Kevin, you wrote.

One of the phrases that jumped out to me was you were tired in places that sleep cannot reach.

I'd never heard that said exactly like that.

And so what does that type of tired.

What does it.

What does that look like?

It's a kind of tired that you can sleep all day.

When you wake up, you're still sleepy.

So I don't think that it's about getting more rest.

Okay.

Really about being disconnected.

I think that's what is.

I sometimes say to our team that there's difference between being worn out and being burned out.

Okay.

When they me at the end of the day, man, B.K.

I'm worn out.

And I sometimes say, are you coming back tomorrow?

And they say, yeah, come back tomorrow.

Good.

Then I'm glad you're worn out.

We want you worn out.

In some ways, I don't think I want to come back tomorrow.

That's another response that.

That's kind of burnout in some ways.

But I think that the being tired of places sleep can't reach is when scripture feels like information to you or the.

The Spotify worship playlist just feels like music and not nothing personal.

You know, when prayers just feel like they're just words that you're speaking, you know, they're not.

They're nothing relational.

I think those.

Those are the warning signs for being tired in places sleep can't reach when you're just emotionally thin.

So that's what that means, that when rest doesn't fix it, you know, only Jesus fixes it.

You know that scripture that says my.

My burdens are not heavy when you bring them to me?

You know, my burden is light.

I think.

Okay, I'm not really sure what that means today because it feels heavy.

But reps hasn't fixed it.

I think what you need isn't rest from activity.

It is rest from.

Or what you need is restoring of connection.

So that.

I think that all plays back into the phrase that I use a lot, which I've already used here.

Is it what God says?

Can you just stay with me a little bit longer?

Can you just.

I know we're done.

Here.

But can you give me.

Can you give me five more minutes?

And what he will do in those minutes to restore the rest that you need.

Great word.

So, Kevin, you recognized that you were at a place where you were tired, where in places sleep could not reach.

And with the reality of being a pastor, leader and father and husband, you know, a lot of different roles.

But is it possible that what we do is in ministry could limit us from sharing how we're really doing inside?

Because I would imagine the majority of people listening to podcast are missionaries, and so they're thinking, this is resonating with me, Kevin, But I just don't know what to do with it.

I recognize I'm in this place, but I don't know who to share this with.

I don't know how to share this with.

And is it possible that in ministry, some that can keep us from.

From sharing when we're at a place we're so exhausted that we're.

That sleep can't fix it, or we're just in a struggling place?

Could you share more about that?

Yeah, man.

I think that is a tragedy, because when I'm sitting in my garage that day at 10 and 2, right.

I thought to myself afterwards, you know, if my church ever finds out about this, you know, there was that.

That piece where I said, you never share this with anybody.

And I didn't.

For.

I didn't until I wrote the book.

Even in that.

That few paragraphs, I thought, Kevin, you know, I had asked Jolene, do you think I should.

Should I be writing this?

People are going to find out.

And I think that's a shame.

We hold back because there's just so much at stake.

We think there's so much at stake.

There's.

I mean, there's image control right at stake.

Where you go, if they knew I struggled with this as a pastor, as a leader, I think there's fear of losing credibility in those moments where, you know, will people.

Will people want to stay under my leadership?

Or there's the potential that people will misunderstand.

Will my honesty be misinterpreted?

Then I think about James.

When James says to confess to one another, I mean, we can't forgive one another, but we can't accomplish the work of forgiveness.

But he says to confess one another, that you might be healed.

And so there's a.

There's a healing property there that relationally, it doesn't happen any other way.

So I think that.

I also think there's a cost to staying silent, that silence creates a distance I think between you and others and even between you and God, there's a relational isolation, I think, that takes place that's just really not healthy because our souls are craving for.

For one another.

I read a scripture that Second Corinthians.

Paul says we were under great pressure far beyond our ability to endure it.

And that just speaks, I think, to the need that we need other people.

I mean, that isn't just polished language.

That's.

That's a heart cry, I think, for other people.

We.

And so that's why at the end of our soul care days that we have quarterly now that everybody is part of.

Even that guy that was walking down the back hallway is part of that now that at the end of those two hours or two and a half, three hours, we connect them with one another in groups of three or four in other that we can have this moment.

So it's not just you and Jesus, to be honest, it's you and one another.

So that's just part of that.

That rebellion.

Yeah.

And that's.

That.

That and rebellion takes.

Takes courage.

And I think you just, you know, share.

It takes a lot of courage.

I think in my life, when I've been in places where sleep cannot fix it, or I'm so tired that it's not going to f. Honestly, I don't.

Many times I didn't have the courage.

I didn't have the courage to speak up.

I didn't have the.

And I kept.

And I suffered in lonely silence.

I'm not proud of it.

And as you said, there's a cost for that.

And I've often thought, you know, that something that I.

It took 18 to 24 months to walk through.

If I'd have been able to share it with somebody and to.

And to share it with God, you know, I mean, it might have only been something that lasted a short amount of time, but it did seem, because I chose.

It was my choice because of insecurities in my life, and I own that responsibility, but I kept it in silence.

And, yeah, so I love.

Love the intentionality.

So you also talk that soul care is fuel rather than a luxury.

And so I think sometimes people would say, well, soul care, that's a.

That's a luxury.

I. Pastor Kevin, I don't have time for that.

But you're saying it's not a luxury, it's actually fuel.

So thoughts on it being a fuel rather than a luxury?

Yeah, well, my pushback on that would.

Be.

You just can't afford not to.

You literally can't.

I Mean, eating is the luxury.

Eating daily bread is necessity.

So there is a difference between luxury says, this is nice, and honestly, I could live without it.

But the soul care says, this is essential to my life.

It's like with your car, proper maintenance, you know, you've got to have that in order for the car to run right.

And run.

Well, we were in Europe years ago, the first time we ever rented a car in Europe.

So that's it.

That's a trip to rent a car.

And so I driven for about a week, and so the car was close to being on empty, which is how I like to roll on empty, you know, just on vapors.

And Jollyman Brother got in half.

But we were almost empty, and I stopped for the first tank of gas to fill it up, and so filled it up.

And, you know, the.

The.

The nozzle didn't really fit exactly in the hole.

Okay.

And I, you know, I thought, you know, if I.

If I'm not smarter than a gas pump, then, you know, wrong.

So I'm just navigating that and got the gas in there all good, got back in the car, started up, and you're probably way ahead of me.

I got like five minutes down the road and the car started to buck and just stop the middle of the road.

I had put, you know, gasoline in the diesel engine.

And I think the moral to that story is that you have to.

Filling up your tank is important, but more important is what you fill it with.

And so, you know, just navigating that.

You don't call oxygen a luxury.

You know, we aren't built to run on empty.

And I think that's the message here, that not built to run that way.

There's kind of a mind shift.

A mind shift there.

The luxury mindset says, I'll fill myself up when I'm overwhelmed.

And necessity viewpoint says I'll fill myself up so I won't become overwhelmed.

Wow.

I think that's the difference between daily fuel and just luxury.

You need it literally to run your life.

Otherwise you sputter.

And you.

And I think those are.

Those are accomplished through simple things.

I really do.

I think they're accomplished by five minutes of.

Of pressing pause on your life from one meeting to the next.

You know, can you five.

Can you find five minutes just to sit in silence?

Because I think silence is a big part of soul care.

Just listening.

I mean, as somebody said, right.

You have two ears and one mouth, so.

Right.

So I think that a short prayer in between, you know, this.

This meeting or the next meeting Sometimes I just go outside, which is just right here, and I'll just walk around the building.

That takes 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

Yeah, it's a big building, so it's just.

It's a little bit of a bigger walk.

But that does wonders for your soul.

It really does.

And those are moments to connect with God.

We usually think we have to add all kinds of things to our schedule, but this is about creating space, I think, within the schedule.

So that I think it's just daily fuel.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it.

What ways do you see God using pauses in the Bible?

So I wrote about some of that in the book.

There are.

I think there's some kind of a pause before creation.

Just.

Just senses that, that God is poisoning over the waters.

The Holy Spirit's hovering there.

To me, there's.

There's something of a pause there.

I think about, you know, Job's pause.

You know, he.

He had his friends come and sit with him for seven days.

And I don't know if I'm not sure who would pause that long, but I think those were significant pauses.

Sure.

Jesus pauses with the adulterous woman, you know, and bends down and writes in the dirt.

There's a pause at the Lord's table, you know, when Paul says, you know, wait, examine yourself, you know, don't rush ahead.

There's a pause.

You know, when Pontius Pilate asked Jesus who he is, and Jesus makes no reply, that's a pause to me.

There's a pause as the disciples are waiting for the Holy Spirit to come in Acts chapter two, there's just that pause.

There's a three day pause at the tomb.

You know, Jesus goes in, and that's a lengthy pause.

We're waiting to see what happens next.

I think one of the most beautiful ones, though are the selahs in Psalms and Habakkuk.

There's 70 some of those where that's a literal pause, whether musical or whatever it might be.

I mean, rests in music are as important as the notes themselves.

The rest create.

Create the, the music.

And really, I mean, Jesus is our model.

Yeah, he retreated, you know, he.

He got away from crowds, he paused.

He.

He took naps on boats.

He got up on the mountain.

I mean, I think, you know, the Son of God needed to pause for his soul then.

I mean, obviously we need to do that.

And that's why it's not a luxury.

Jesus did it, love it.

And you shared an analogy, one that I've.

I've not stolen it from you.

So I give you credit.

And the quote that rest comes only for sheep.

When the shepherd has dealt with the fear, friction, flies and famine, how does this, and how do you make an application to humans?

And so where sheep, how does the shepherd or the leaders, how do they make that place where they take away the fear, the friction, the flies and the famine?

Yeah.

And I sourced Philip Keller, who wrote a book called A Shepherd, looks at the 23rd Psalm for that particular quote.

I think the best way, first of all to read the 23rd Psalm is to read it one sentence at a time and then pause it.

So the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.

I think that we should just put the book down right there and just take a moment and pause on that.

And sentence by sentence, he makes me loud and green.

He makes me lie down in green pastures.

Just pause for a minute.

And in the book, I suggest that, you know, as you read it, even as you're reading the book, stop for a minute and just keep rushing through.

So I think those things, fear, one of the most common commands in scripture is to not, right?

So there's, there's a lack of, there's a lack of trust or trust what we need to cultivate to get rid of that fear, friction.

I think that's disunity in our day and age because it's unity is one of the fruit of relationships.

And frankly, so is disunity.

So the shepherd, the shepherd brings harmony into the flock because you're right, we are, we are for sure sheep.

And somebody said, you know, sheep aren't the brightest, brightest animals in the pen.

I don't know if that's true.

But God resolves those things with love and with humility.

I think that there's the irritations of life are the flies which we all experience.

And the shepherd applies, you know, oil to our heads in the form of godly wisdom and godly grace and peace that protects the sheep.

And then that last one's famine.

And I think that's the dryness that we find ourselves walking in this maybe spiritual barrenness where God says, hey, I'm the refresher.

So again, come to me, sit with me, listen to me, and I'll bring my, my presence and my provision to you.

Yeah, Love it.

Love it.

Kevin, the other thing you, you wrote in, in the book was about the questions.

Who am I?

Why do I matter?

Why do I matter?

And what gives my life value?

And you apply those to this daily rebellion.

Can you share more about those?

Who am I?

Why do I matter?

What gives My life value and how this, you know, how it correlates then with a daily rebellion taking time each day.

Yeah, I mean, the soul is what makes us human and not our bodies.

We don't have the capacity to create a soul.

So God is not like me in that way.

I mean, God is not.

God is not a 6 foot, 5, slightly graying, you know, 190 pound.

I'm giving myself a little credit on that one.

But there is an example of.

Hiroshi is a professor at Osaka University in Japan.

In, in the.

He created a.

An Android and he called it H8 Geminoid Hi1 which hi would send for his initials.

Okay.

And a.

It was a silicone, like silicone skin and it had actuators.

And he used AI and and all of that in order to create this, this robot of sorts.

And then he sent it actually into conferences.

And he was either in a back room or even in another location looking through its cameras and operating its arms.

And it looked like him.

It was in his image and yet he had created it.

And that began a process inside of him where he said, you know, am I really human?

And what.

How am I made and am I a machine?

And did someone create me?

And I think that's what we're talking about here, that who am I?

Why do I matter?

My father.

My parents divorced when I was five and I didn't really know my father for the course of my life.

I think I saw him five times in my whole adult life.

He passed away during the COVID year.

But I did see him one of the last times right before that.

And the doppelganger between us was striking.

He had five wives.

So his fifth wife sat in my office and she began to tell me about things about him.

And she said that he has a shelf at home.

They were in this room, he said, a shelf at home that has a lot of the same cars on his shelf that I have on my shelf.

She said, he's like the king of chocolate shakes.

And I said, oh my goodness, I am the prince of chocolate shakes.

Church.

Everybody knows that.

And so, I mean, that imago between us, but the imago DEI image of God, not only did God create and knit your soul, he knitted it in his image.

I mean, that's remarkable.

So I think that there's a press pause and each of the chapters of the book are really about things we have to press pause to accomplish.

The imago DEI helps us understand that we're not accidents you know, we're here on purpose, created with, you know, intentionality and meaning and direction.

But I think more than that, the imago helps us understand why, you know, violence and trafficking and racism and the other things are an affront, you know, to the divine image of God inside of us.

I think that's why I, I advocate.

You need to pause to think about who you are, who God made you to be.

It's for your pleasure that you recruited.

And sometimes you have to just sit in that and let that actually be fuel for you, that, wow, I'm made in the image of God.

My goodness.

Yeah, that, that's remarkable.

Yeah.

So what a blessing.

Kevin, you, I got two or three more questions for you.

So you've developed a rhythm in your life for soul care.

Could you just describe it?

How, how it, what a, a day, a week, a month looks like for you personally?

Yeah, I think there, these kind of moments are important that, you know, there doesn't have to be like a written out regimen.

Okay.

That's where we, I don't think it's wrong to have that, but I try to start my day with time with Jesus.

And again, these aren't odd or unusual or things you've never heard before.

And I think that's one of the important parts.

We can all do this.

You know, we don't have to be, have to suggest that when we open our Bibles, you know, in the morning as leaders and as pastors and missionaries, that all of a sudden like, you know, white doves fly out of the Bible pages for regular folks loving Jesus.

So I have daily morning, usually before I get out of bed, even listening to some audio Bible I do.

So scripture observation, application, prayer is part of my daily regimen where it's just a couple of chapters.

I have some gratitude moments that I think are important for soul care.

And one of the chapters in the book is about how that we really pause to be grateful not only to God, but for others.

Jolene and I just, not long ago we just used our mirror in our bathroom as a kind of a collage of gratitude.

So every day we just take a post it note, put it on the mirror, and before, you know, the week was out, we had, you know, at least 15 to 20 post it notes, things we were just grateful for.

That's also part of soul care to me.

Yeah, so there's some hacks that I do that these aren't all the time, but I've set my device, watch phone to every hour, on the hour where it will just ping.

And I might be in a meeting, I might be in my car or whatever.

But all of your waking hours, so let's just say you're awake 18 hours or 17 hours of the day.

So your watch is going to ping 17 times while you're awake.

And all those moments are again, this is part of the rebellion.

You know, the world is about productivity.

Let's check, do the checklist.

But every ping is a reminder that yes, there is a God and he loves me.

And it's 17 more times during the day that I just connect with him, even if there are 30 seconds, even if I'm in a meeting and my watch pings.

Because everybody's watch pings in meetings.

Yes.

So nobody thinks anything about that.

But to me, I would go, right, you know, God, come in this moment.

And it's, it's just moments to, that's the daily fuel.

That's not a luxury.

So I do those kinds of things usually at night, the prayer of examen, which I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's from, from ignatius in the 16th century.

And typically they practice that in the evening.

So it's just, it's working through your day and saying, where was God present?

And if you have 17 pings, it's easier.

You have to recall that that's not a bad exercise.

And then you go back through your day again and say, where didn't I sense God?

And maybe I should have.

And then the third part of the prayer of examine is just a prayer for tomorrow.

What's on the schedule tomorrow?

So God meet me in those moments.

So other things I just try to practice are listening moments.

I probably do that as much as anything.

God, I'm just going to sit here and listen for you.

And what do you have to say?

So, wow, love the, love the intentionality of it.

And, and as you said, that's the going through the day.

I, I've added, when was I in relationships with people?

When was, when was I Christ, like in that relationship and where was I not?

And then it gives me an opportunity at the, the next day to apologize, go back, circle back with people.

Because there's times, as you said, I, I, I rush through my day.

And it's been very impactful for me when I've asked, you know, and given time for the Lord to speak to my heart, for him to point out areas that I didn't necessarily treat someone with, with kindness or tenderheartedness.

And then being able to go back to them and Apologize.

And I probably would have if I didn't take that time.

I think I probably would have just skipped over it, you know, I mean, and just went on to the next day.

But that, that intentional pause has been, been super helpful.

Kevin, the one of the last.

Well, the last question before I ask you to pray for is, is you write in when the, in the book about when, when the ground shifts beneath you and there was a pause that necessarily you didn't take voluntarily.

But this something that happened in your life.

Will you share about that?

And then, then after that, I'm going to ask you to pray for us.

Sure.

About four years ago, I developed a pain in my back.

I wasn't sure what it was.

I thought it was right after I left the gym and I just thought I'd lifted something too heavy, like sometimes happens.

And I thought, you know, that'll go away.

It always does.

And so I let two or three, you know, it's when you're trying to lift a weight to impress the 24 year old who's standing next to you, you know, and then you're going, he wasn't even looking at you.

So I, I let that go for about two months just because I just figured it'd go away.

And then Jolene and I went on sabbatical for three months that year and I couldn't carry a backpack more than for about 30 minutes on my back.

It started to hurt.

And then it started.

My right arm started to hurt.

So I went back and said I got to go to the chiropractor and get this figured out.

So long story short, but the chiropractor spent about eight more weeks on me.

So it had been about six months.

I had this pain in my back and didn't go away.

And when I went to the X ray, they discovered that there was a mass in my back and it was cancer.

That was not something I ever expected to hear.

And so I had to navigate a forced pause, you know, where God says, I'm working on you in a different way way.

And I discovered some things about myself and about God in those moments that were beautiful.

First of all, that he doesn't leave me and doesn't forsake me and he has a plan for me and really probably is scanning parts of me that an MRI could never, could never detect.

There's things in me that, that, that doesn't figure out.

Only God knows.

But obviously that was a.

There was some things I needed to pause to learn during that time.

Even pausing to surrender in greater Ways, you know, God, I'm just yours.

Whatever you have in my life, whatever.

Whatever brings me closer to you.

Some people say that those.

Those kind of things shouldn't happen to good people.

But I. I think as Christ followers, we believe the opposite.

We.

We believe that the very worst possible thing happened.

The very best possible person, you know, Jesus.

Right.

Yeah.

So navigate some of that stuff.

And so it's just pausing to find some.

Some small anchors, even.

You know, even.

Even though.

Even the morning cup of tea or the walk outside began to look different to me.

I mean, every sermon, every song was different in those moments.

And God just brought me back, you know, just a greater communion with him.

And it turned out differently than a lot of people about, you know, months and months later, after chemo and immunotherapy and lost all my hair and my eyelash lashes and eyebrows and all that stuff.

And my last.

My last MRI said that cancer was in remission.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a scan.

Friday is my sixth, and it'll be three years now since that.

So I'm grateful and thankful, but sometimes.

Sometimes that's how God makes you lie down.

Yeah.

Said, hey, I'm just gonna force you down because life changed in that moment.

But God is faithful.

And so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin, how did you not.

I said I was going to not ask him to ask you a short question.

How did you not become angry and bitter?

Because, you know, you just.

You said this shouldn't happen.

You're somebody serving God.

You're.

You're leading people.

You.

You've.

You've learned life's lessons when it comes to soul care.

You're developing in that.

And then you get a diagnosis like this.

Any words of encouragement for somebody that maybe got an unexpected diagnosis or maybe they're in a season of forced pause, and they don't necessarily have a joyful spirit about it, and understandably so.

That's not criticism.

It's just.

They're in a place where they're just.

They're frustrated with God, you know, I mean, they were.

Yeah.

Any words of encouragement for them, then I'd ask you to pray.

Yeah.

First of all, I don't think I said that I didn't get angry or bitter.

I think that there's.

There's navigation.

Yeah.

Through all that, I mean, Jolene said to me, we sat down in the food court in Minneapolis and FaceTimed our kids.

When I found out I was in Minneapolis at the moment, and we told them all, there was a lot of.

I can't.

I don't remember that conversation.

It was that, you know, moving.

But Jolene suggested we were going to buy a recliner for the living room.

And I was like, why?

Why are we buying a recliner?

Am I dying?

You know, was that.

And that.

That was powerful moment.

Like, okay, you.

And I don't think there's any easy answers to that, Aaron.

Okay.

I think I tried to figure out how I might be able to help other people, which maybe that sounds, you know, a messiah complex kind of thing.

That was, you know, to say, hey, who else?

There are people here have.

Who have it worse than me for sure.

And I think that's an encouragement to anybody who's facing that, is that there are people who do have it worse than you have it.

So try to help them.

It was beautiful to have little children at our church come up to me who were wearing, you know, the rags on their heads, and they were all underneath there.

And for me to just get on the ground on my knees.

And those ones in the church lobby, they were coming up to me for a reason because I had no hair.

And just to throw my arms around them and say, hey, you're going to be okay.

You know, we'll walk through this together.

I kind of grabbed on the verse that says, what good is it to gain the whole world but lose your own?

That that's what matters here.

So that.

That's not even a great and even an easy answer to what you just asked.

But you answer.

You answered the question in the beginning.

You said, I didn't say.

I didn't get angry and bitter.

And I think that's that.

That's the.

That's the authenticity of.

Of who you are.

Kevin, will you pray for us today?

Of course, Father.

Thank you for who you are.

Thank you that you love us beyond what we could ever imagine.

Lord, thank you that you created us in your image.

Thank you that you have a plan for us.

And so, God, I pray that you would help us to discover how to care for our souls.

Really, the most important part of us, the part that is like your nature, Father.

And so, Lord, I pray that for listeners that they would lean into you, God, spend time listening to you and your voice because you are speaking.

And God, help us to listen like Samuel.

God, I pray that you would just cover these listeners with your grace and your mercy, that we would experience you in greater ways, in ways that we've never experienced you before.

God, I pray that you would help us to have that daily fuel to just open your word and to listen to what you're saying and just to spend a little bit more time with you, just to sit there a few more minutes and God, I believe you will reveal yourself in beautiful ways to us.

Thank you for your love for us.

And I thank you her in Jesus name, amen.

Amen.