Today on The Rough Draft we talk with content creator & solopreneur, Courtney Johnson. Courtney has such a fascinating methodology on creative storytelling. Her delivery mechanism is primarily social media, but she uses many types of digital marketing to grow her personal brand as a mentor and consultant. We talk about how she focuses on creating a lot of content - no matter how good or bad she thinks it is - and how this not only led to her overall success, but also generated nearly 8 million views on what she would say is objectively a bad piece of content. We get into her simple daily habits, different tools used in her workflow, and how a content creator should never leave anything in their drafts. Alright, here’s our conversation with Courtney Johnson.

Guest Bio

Courtney Johnson is an Austin-based solopreneur, social media consultant, personal brand manager for tech execs, and content creator who writes about motivation, personal brand, career, and marketing. She is the creator of the Monday Megaphone Newsletter, Level up on LinkedIn Program, and Level up on TikTok program. 

Additional Resources

• LinkedIn: courtneylynnjohnson
• Instagram: courtlynnjohnson
• TikTok: @courtney..johnson
• You can find info on Courtney’s new podcast “Slay the Gatekeeper” on her instagram
• Courtney’s Patreon
• Courtney’s Problematic Career Cheat Codes
• Courtney’s “Level Up on LinkedIn” Program
• Courtney’s “Level Up on TikTok” Program
• “The One Thing” - by Gary Keller & Jay Papasan 
• Flown

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- If you create content around

what you're obsessed with,

your audience, the right audiences

are naturally going to

gravitate towards you.

If a video performs bad, I'm like,

"Okay, that's just a data point.

It's all a data point."

The fear of putting yourself

out there can be very scary.

Because of this feedback loop,

in a year or two, you're

living your dream.

If every single person likes

what you're putting out

and you're trying to please everyone,

it's not gonna be any good.

- I'm Amanda Glaeser,

and today I'm your host

on "The Rough Draft."

In this episode, I talk

with content creator

and solopreneur, Courtney Johnson.

Courtney has such a

fascinating methodology

on creative storytelling.

Her delivery mechanism is

primarily social media,

but she uses many types

of digital marketing

to grow her personal brand

as a mentor and consultant.

We talk about how she focuses

on creating a lot of content,

no matter how good or

bad she thinks it is.

And how this not only led

to her overall success,

but also generated nearly 8 million views

on what she would say is

objectively a bad piece of content.

We get into her simple daily habits,

different tools used in her workflow,

and how a content creator

should never leave

anything in their drafts.

All right, here's my conversation

with Courtney Johnson.

(bouncy upbeat music)

Okay, so Courtney, I had so many things

I was excited to talk to you about

by way of storytelling and

creativity and productivity,

but I was watching, I

went back and re-watched

some of your TikToks last night,

and your tram posts get so much traction.

I wanna hear about your tram

and why you make that content.

- Yeah, so I have a crazy house.

It's actually not that crazy.

It's kind of a normal house,

but it's on, like, this cliff mountain.

So it's only accessible by a tram.

This is what it's, like, living in a house

that's only accessible by tram.

I'm finally answering all

of y'all's tram questions.

"Courtney, why is there

a tram at your house?"

Guys, I don't know, I

didn't build the house.

"That's not a tram, that's a funicular."

I know it's a funicular, but

tram house just sounds cooler.

Next question, where

do I get my deliveries?

On all of the instructions stuff,

I just tell people to put

deliveries on the tram.

Yes, a lot of people get confused.

And lastly, is it only

my tram or do I share it?

The tram is only for my house.

I am solely responsible for it.

And yes, there is security

and I can lock it, luckily.

I've been obsessed with this house

since I was, like, in high school,

like, it was on my vision board.

- This exact house.

- Yeah, when I was, like,

yeah, 'cause it was a Airbnb.

- Oh.

- When Airbnb launched

in, like, 2008, so I was a teenager.

- No way!

- Being like,

"Oh my gosh, I gotta go here one day."

And yeah, I bought the house crazy enough,

but honestly, the house, I'm

like, this is an investment,

because this is a content investment.

And I did know that buying

that particular house

over buying another house

would be good for content and it did work.

- So tell me a little bit

about what you do on the tram,

because I know it takes

three minutes to get down,

three minutes to get back up.

- I actually habit stack a

lot of things in my life.

So I habit stack my

meditation on the tram.

Because I have to go up and

down at least once a day,

and so I know I'll at least

have six minutes of meditation.

That's, like, the smallest amount, right?

The least thing I can do.

It's the same, like, in the car.

I, if I'm driving, I'm

gonna listen to an audiobook

at least one leg of the

trip of wherever I'm going.

So even that's just,

like, coming home from the grocery store,

that's at least 10 minutes

that I'm reading, right?

It's the habit stacking.

- Okay, so tell me about habit stacking

and why that's important to your process.

Why do you meditate for six minutes a day

and read 10 minutes out

of a book every day?

- Yeah, I think when it comes to habits,

a lot of people try to go overboard

where, let's say you

wanna start working out.

You think you have to go to the gym

for an hour every single day.

You're never gonna be

successful doing that.

Instead, what you can do

is do a two minute

YouTube mini workout video

in between a meeting, right?

Like, that is the thing

that's actually accessible.

So with my daily habits,

I have what's called a non-negotiable.

So I have to do everything

for at least 30 seconds,

that way there is no way to fail.

Like, you can only succeed doing that,

and of course you can build on that,

but there's no zero days,

no days where I don't accomplish those,

because the things are so easy

and I haven't made it this

overwhelming thing for myself.

- And so what are some

of those non-negotiables?

- Meditation, going on

a walk, I have a dog,

so I literally have to go on a walk.

Like, she will go crazy if not.

So that's, again, forces me to do it.

A mini workout, I'm talking two minutes.

A mini, like, stretch or

yoga, again, two minutes.

Anything more is a plus.

And journaling, writing.

- Okay, so it's a normal day.

You've gotten all of your

daily non-negotiables done.

What does the rest of the

day look like for you,

maybe on a normal workday?

- Usually in the morning,

I create content.

A lot of times my content ideas

kind of come when I'm

journaling or free writing.

So I get ready for the day,

create content right after,

and I try to batch as much as I can.

So I have a rule that if I'm gonna make,

like, one TikTok video,

I might as well make two.

Even if the second one is bad,

I'm at least gonna have that in my drafts.

And again, going back

to not setting these unrealistic

expectations for myself,

if I make a bad, I make

one video I'm proud of,

I post it, I do another bad

video, instead of deleting it,

I'm gonna put it in my drafts.

Two weeks in the future,

maybe I'll look back at that

and be like, "Hey, wait,

this was actually good."

Like, where my mind was at the

time, I thought it was bad,

but this is a unique idea.

Like, I can go with this.

But I think so often, we'll

throw away those things

without even considering

that they may be good

or somebody might find value in it.

And then after that, I go

downtown to my coworking space,

usually do some calls, work

on some brand partnerships,

work on my courses,

and then I usually go

to, like, a yoga class

or hang out with friends or something

and go home and yeah, that's my day.

- What I think is

interesting about that is,

you know, a lot of times as creators,

sometimes we get so caught up in,

"I want it to be really good.

I want it to be interesting.

I want people to like

it and engage with it."

How do you get over that?

Like, what do you, how

do you think through

putting yourself out there?

Because you are really your brand,

and so you are the face

of all of your advice,

all of your content.

How do you think through that

and get over that kind of hump of,

"Ugh, I don't wanna put myself

out there, it might be bad."

- There's a lot.

First, you just have to

see all of your content

as an experiment.

Everything is a little science experiment,

every piece of content you're putting out.

And if you overthink it, a lot of times

that limits the amount of

volume you can put out.

So you're not gonna get good results,

because you're not seeing patterns.

Like, if you want to get good results,

like, in your content, you

have to put out a large volume,

go back, look at what patterns you saw,

whether that's your format, the topics,

like, how you're presenting yourself,

maybe even where you are.

And then it becomes very easy

to recreate and recreate.

But again, the fear of

putting yourself out there

can be very scary.

And I think a big part of that

is because we have these

expectations for ourselves

or how we should show up,

this fear around what other

people will think of us.

But it's important if you feel called

to create content that it's,

to know that it's your responsibility.

Like, not only is, yeah, this

is this thing you want to do

and it's important, but

it is your responsibility,

because by putting out your

art or making your music

or publishing your book or whatever,

it's not only sharing your information

with the world, which is great,

but also giving other people

permission to do that as well.

So the more we can all, like,

support each other in that,

and the more you can surround yourself

with people that are

creating content or art

or whatever their medium might be,

the easier it's gonna

be for you to do it too,

that's normalized.

- Yeah, and I think,

I think the way that

I've kind of gotten over

my own fear of posting anything

is by seeing your content

or somebody else's content,

especially where they address that.

Like, where we just call it out

and you call it the cringe mountain.

Tell us about the cringe mountain,

because it's one of my favorite things

to think through when I'm

creating my own content.

- I love the concept

of the cringe mountain.

I have to say, I did not create this.

A lot of people will tag me.

I'm like, I didn't make this,

I saw it on Twitter once

and I cannot find the original creator.

But you have a mountain with

two valleys on either side,

and you have to climb and climb

and climb up the mountain.

But as you climb up,

there's gonna be people

that are in the base of

the mountain being like,

"Where does she think she's going?

What does he think he's doing?

Who does she think she is?"

You're gonna feel really uncomfortable,

because you're doing it in public,

you're doing it to where

everybody can see you,

but once you get over the mountain,

you're in the valley where everyone else

who has conquered the cringe mountain is.

And the truth is, none of those people

are going to discourage you.

Like, if you post your

very first YouTube video,

David Dobrik's not gonna

comment and be like,

"Whoa, this sucks.

Like, man, like, your lighting is awful."

No, if he saw your YouTube video,

he'd be like, "Ah, keep going.

That's how I started too, amazing," right?

Or if you start a new podcast

and you mess up some stuff, like,

Joe Rogan's not gonna be

like, "That podcast sucks."

He's gonna be like, "Oh, keep going.

I'm on my 5,000th podcast," right?

So anyone in the land of

cool who's got over it

is not going to discourage you.

It's only the people that are too afraid

to even embark on the mountain.

- The people who have been,

you know, just in my own journey

that have been the most supportive,

have been the people,

yeah, who've gotten over it

and who are, who have kind of embraced

that vulnerability of, you know,

any type of self-expression is vulnerable,

because it's like, "Hey, this is who I am

and I'm putting it out there."

And so, especially when

you're the face of your brand,

it's just that much more,

you know, vulnerable.

It's like, "This is me."

And one of the other things you talk about

is your engagement with trolls.

- Yeah.

- Tell me,

tell me about that.

- Trolls, trolls are tools,

trolls are tools.

You can leverage the

trolls in your content.

If you get people arguing

in your comments section,

or if a lot of people disagree

with what you're saying,

your video is going to take off,

your content's gonna take off.

If every single person likes

what you're putting out

and you're trying to please everyone,

it's not gonna be any good.

Like, any good piece of art

that has ever been created,

it has had polarization.

Like, polarization is the tension

that makes something good.

So yeah, you can use the trolls,

like, don't be afraid

of them, invite them in.

If you want your video to perform well,

there's gonna be trolls.

And trolls is a sign of

like, "Oh yeah, I made it.

Like, that's a huge milestone,

I got my first troll.

Like, yes," because nobody

relevant lacks trolls.

Like, every, again, person

that's on the other side

of the cringe mountain

has a ton of trolls,

and that's a badge of honor.

- Yeah, that's such a good

way to think about it,

as a badge of honor and a tool to get,

you know, to get the algorithm

to notice you too, right?

Like, "Oh, something's

happening over here."

- Exactly.

- So you have a ton of

content on LinkedIn,

on TikTok, Instagram.

You have courses that you teach

that show people how to be

successful content creators.

What's kind of your favorite

part of all of that?

What's your favorite channel?

- My favorite part is the writing.

So LinkedIn tends to

be my favorite channel.

I'm a writer by trade,

and my first, the first place I'm gonna go

to put out an idea is writing.

Like, I'll write

something in my Notes app,

and it's fun to take that writing

and turn that into a video

or turn that into something else.

But the base, like, the core of it,

the writing is my favorite part.

And I also really like LinkedIn,

because it is just the

easiest place to grow.

Everybody on LinkedIn is boring.

So if you can have, like, a

single iota of personality,

you're gonna succeed on

LinkedIn, whatever your goal is,

whether that's, like, to get a new job

or to get more clients

or to sell your product

or to educate somebody

on some issue, like, LinkedIn

is just the easiest place to do it.

I like the other platforms

too, but LinkedIn is easy

and it's, like, the

shortest route to your goal.

- I think I've noticed that too, is like,

there's just less people there.

And so you can kind of rise to the top,

and especially if you're looking to,

you know, monetize whatever

it is you're doing,

you wanna get more clients,

you wanna sell something,

you wanna get a job.

That's where those people

are is on LinkedIn.

And that's usually why they're engaging

with that channel versus, you

know, an Instagram or TikTok

where people are just

looking to be entertained.

- Exactly, like, there

are more content consumers

than content creators on

LinkedIn, which is really rare.

And then people are

already going to LinkedIn

for business decisions.

- Right.

- I do a lot of social media

and marketing consulting,

and I've never got a client from TikTok

or Instagram or anything,

all from LinkedIn.

So, huge, huge opportunity.

Even if you're not in a

traditional, like, business space,

I still think you should be on LinkedIn.

- So you've gotten, you know,

like, more business from LinkedIn,

but you still create a

lot of content on TikTok.

What's the kind of benefit

to creating all of that

TikTok content as well?

- It reaches more people.

I have a much bigger audience on TikTok,

and I do really enjoy creating videos.

It's a little bit of a different audience.

It's more younger people

that are looking to me

for business advice, marketing advice.

And I really enjoy getting to,

like, influence people's decision-making,

because content is how

we make decisions, right?

If you are going to, you

know, start a business,

you're going to Google,

"How do I start a business,"

read through some content,

some blogs, watch some YouTube,

and make your decisions this way.

Like, that is huge.

The fact that we can impact

other people's decisions.

And that's just, like, one example.

Maybe the example is, like,

"What should I eat for dinner?"

Or maybe it's even something

that's like, "Who should

I vote for?", whatever.

Whatever you care about, that

is influenced by content.

And TikTok is a huge place

to have influence right now.

And the word influence and influencer

is, like, thrown around as silly.

Like, no, you are impacting

other people's decision-making.

That is, like, world-changing.

- That's how I, like, how we met.

How I found you was through TikTok

and I came across your cheat codes.

I love them

and I think everybody should

go and watch those videos.

- So I have a series on TikTok

called Problematic Career Cheat Codes.

And I wanted to share the things

that I felt were not talked

about in normal career spaces.

Like, this is the advice

that you're never gonna read in a book

or Google career tips and

find it on the first page.

Like, these are things

that you kind of have to

go through it to learn.

And there are also things that kind of

shocked me or surprised me.

I'm like, why did I not know this?

Why did I not learn this in college?

And so I wanted to share

that with other people,

so they, especially young

people starting their career,

didn't have to go

through the same mistakes

or things that happened in order

for me to figure out, like,

"Oh, aha, actually what

they're telling you

isn't always right, this

is how you should act,

this is how you should dress.

This is how to, you know, lead people.

This is how to make people

like you in your office.

All that stuff."

- It's interesting too

that you call them

problematic cheat codes.

I think there's something

really smart there,

because it's, you're kind of putting this,

like, negative connotation on it, right?

Which is very kind of hooky

and gets people's attention.

Is that intentional?

- It is intentional.

Some of them are a little bit problematic

and things that I,

some are things that I have

not implemented myself,

but I see other people do,

and I see people have an

advantage by doing them.

And so even if it's something

that maybe I'm not gonna implement myself,

I still want to share that information,

because I want people to know

that other people are doing this,

people to decide for themselves

whether they want to do that or not,

but I want the information

to be out there.

So there is parts that are problematic.

Majority of the tips are not problematic.

It's baiting the, click

bait, baiting the viewers.

- I think there's something,

yeah, just in general,

when we're consuming content, you know,

I wanna consume something different.

I don't want the same tip

telling me the same thing

over and over again.

I don't want one more video

telling me how to make a

chicken thigh, you know?

(pair laughing)

So your personal brand

revolves around educating

other people, would you say?

Doing that through your content,

through your videos or your writing,

is that how you would describe

kind of what your insight is

or what you kind of bring to the table?

- Yeah, I always look

at it through the lens

of, like, creating value.

How can I create value?

You can do that in a few ways.

You can educate, entertain,

inform, all of that.

I've chosen the educate route,

and not, a piece of

content is not necessarily

more or less valuable

depending on what you choose,

but it starts to become very apparent

of, "Why am I watching this person?

I'm inspired by them,

every time I see their

videos, I'm inspired."

Or, "I'm entertained,

they're really funny,

this is a great comedian."

Or "I'm informed, I feel very

informed about what's going on

in my industry or in

the news," or whatever.

I wanna be the educational route.

But like we were talking about earlier,

a lot of the education I put on

is around the importance of

personal brand, which is huge.

And even through the career cheat codes,

the biggest through line

is just your personal

brand is so important.

It is the most important,

because your personal brand is almost like

this insurance that you have.

You get laid off, you lose a client,

your business doesn't work out.

If you have a strong personal

brand and a strong network,

you're always gonna have

another opportunity.

You're never gonna be left in the dust.

You're always going to have something.

It is, like, the ultimate security

and the biggest asset

that you possess yourself.

- How do you find your personal brand?

Like, you've obviously done

a lot of trial and error.

How does one decide

or lean into that niche

or that personal brand?

- So I actually don't believe in niches.

I think the best thing to do

is create content around

what you're obsessed with.

That's all.

If you create content around

what you're obsessed with,

your audience, the right audiences

are naturally going to

gravitate towards you.

So yes, there is some planning of,

"I wanna talk about

this, I have this goal,

so I'm gonna lean into this topic,"

but really if you're just talking about

what you're obsessed with,

you're going to have a

successful personal brand

and it creates a feedback loop.

So you're putting out all the

things you're obsessed with.

Maybe you're obsessed with

running, graphic design,

email marketing, Taylor Swift,

and plants and gardening.

Put out content around all of that.

You're gonna see very clear patterns

in how your audience responds to that.

Maybe your audience

actually does not care

about graphic design,

but they really care about gardening.

And that's something that's

just a side hobby for you.

You would've never thought

that's how you provide value,

but your audience wants

more and more of it.

So you're doing more and more of it,

then you're finding ways to monetize it.

And because of this feedback

loop, in a year or two,

you're living your dream

just by putting out the things

that you're obsessed with

and following the feedback

loop of how you provide value,

seeing what value your audience

sees, making more of that.

And it can bring you to your purpose.

- You do such a great job of leaning into

what your things are, what

people will respond to.

You duplicate content

across different channels

and, you know, get the most

out of an idea that works.

How do you decide what

content people like,

like, what do you measure,

how do you do that?

What does that look like day to day?

- A big indicator for me is questions.

If somebody's asking questions,

if somebody wants to go deeper,

engagement, views, all

of that, yeah, it matters

and you can see trends in that,

but that's not necessarily

what's going to,

that's not the best indicator.

A lot of times views or likes

is just a vanity metric.

But a real metric is somebody

texting you the next day

and saying, "Hey, I saw

your video about gardening.

I really wanna start a backyard garden.

Do you have any tips?"

That was completely off the video,

but that's somebody having questions

or somebody in your video

asking questions of,

"Wow, can you go deeper into this?"

Or, "I actually don't know

how to start my seeds.

Can you help me with that?"

And that means people

are starting to see you

as an expert in your topic

when they start asking

specific questions to you

and wanting to learn more.

Again, this is from the

education side of things.

I don't think this is necessarily

related to, like, inspirational,

entertaining types of content,

but for educational content,

you wanna be seen as a thought leader.

And the more questions you get asked,

that's, like, immediate green

flag for the content type.

- With that in mind,

do you then create content

where you're kind of hoping,

like, do you shape your content

in a way that you're

looking for those questions

or they just come up organically?

- Yeah, I let them just

come up organically,

because a lot of times we're not conscious

to what's interesting about us,

and we're not conscious

to how valuable our own knowledge is.

We kind of think everybody knows it.

We're almost numb to our knowledge.

So it's hard to position it,

it's hard to tee up questions.

It's hard to even have certain angles,

because we don't know.

Again, the questions create

another feedback loop,

because you're putting out content.

People are asking questions

that you would've never thought of.

You would've never thought

they're even relevant,

that your audience would

even care about that.

That's what happened with

my career cheat codes.

I put out this random video,

I would've never expected

people to find value in my career tips,

because I'm like, "Oh, there's

career tips everywhere.

Why would they need mine?", you know?

- You and I have worked together

doing some kind of one-on-one training,

teaching me how to use LinkedIn as a tool.

Just like any other

platform, it's its own beast.

It's got an algorithm, it

rewards you for certain things,

it, you know, penalizes

you for other things.

And so it's important

to know how to use it.

And so somehow we got

on the topic of movies

and I was talking about

how much I love when movies

use color as symbolism

of to, you know, display

different things or emotions

or times in people's life.

And I thought that was obvious

that production companies were doing that,

that directors were purposefully,

you know, in the movie "Her",

that's a really good example of one,

and that everybody saw it, but they don't.

Like, I was totally blind to it.

- Yeah.

- How do people find what that thing is

that they're blind to?

Because I would've never made that content

if you hadn't pointed out, you know,

that my eyes light up when

I talk about film reviews.

Like, I just never would've

even thought about it.

How do you get to that place?

- For me, it happened through volume,

just throwing out a million tests.

Like, everything is an at bat.

So if even a tiny idea came

up or I was doing something

or thinking about something

or reading something,

and even if I'm like,

"This is so irrelevant,"

I'm like, "I gotta test it anyways."

Like, testing tons of

different types of content.

The volume is so important.

The reason why I've, like,

blown up on TikTok so fast

is because I had a library

of, like, 500 LinkedIn posts

and I could go back and see

all of those LinkedIn posts,

which were the top performing,

what were the most interesting,

what were the best,

and put that on TikTok.

And now that I've been

posting on TikTok for a while,

I can see the data

and see, "All right, what's

the most interesting,

what questions am I getting?"

Like, it, again, it

creates a feedback loop

that, like, informs,

but it only starts with a ton

of volume and a ton of tests.

- And you gotta get over the

cringe mountain to do it.

- You gotta get over the

cringe mountain, yes.

- But you also have to create

enough space in your day,

enough time to create a lot of content.

And it's not something, at least for me,

I don't know that, you know,

is instant necessarily.

Sometimes you can do, you know,

a quick one and done one take,

but creating a lot of

content takes a lot of time.

How do you create all of your content?

Because, like you said, you have a lot.

- Yeah, so I think a lot of people

think that creating

content takes a long time,

but creating content

that you think is good

takes a long time.

If I asked you to make a TikTok

in 30 seconds, you could do it.

You just would be like,

"This isn't any good."

It might be good to

somebody else, it might.

Maybe the quick tip right off your head

could be good, right?

It's not necessarily in the

time, it's the amount of time

that we overthink and put into stuff.

Of course you do need to create space

so you're not always feeling pressure,

because we come up with the

best ideas when we're relaxed.

So repurposing content is huge.

I repurpose all my content all the time.

Like, it's not about necessarily coming up

with, like, 100 things to stay

unless you're in the testing zone,

but figuring out how to say one thing

100 different ways and seeing what sticks.

So I repurpose a ton of my content,

whether that's literally

just downloading the video

and reposting the exact same thing.

Or maybe, you know, taking a LinkedIn post

and reading it as a script

or maybe taking a TikTok

and just shortening it and reposting that.

But reposting content is

the best way to free up time

and mental space and really

get the longevity of it.

- What are some other tools that you use

to get into that head space?

To one, have the courage

to post a lot of content

and whether or not you think it's good.

And two, just, you

know, the world is busy,

there's a lot of distractions

at any given time.

And to create the content, like you said,

you have to come up with the idea,

you have to take the time to

do it, even if it's quick.

How do you create that space in your day?

- I highly recommend the

book "The ONE Thing."

It is fantastic.

That was really my catalyst

of starting to create that space,

and literally overnight when I read it

and the next day I was creating content

and on this TikTok journey,

which was, has been a huge

part of my personal brand.

So that's a great tool

and essentially it's a book

that centers around a question

of what is the one thing I

basically have to do every day

or need to focus on

that will make everything

else easier or unnecessary?

So by nature of this question,

you're making the rest of your day easier.

So when I came down to that question,

when I first did the book,

it was post on LinkedIn,

that was the thing that was going to make

the rest of my day easier.

Why, because I didn't have

to do outbound anymore.

I knew if I posted on LinkedIn every day,

I wouldn't have to go looking for clients.

They would come to me.

I knew that it wouldn't take as long

to post on other platforms,

because I had this,

like, library of content.

And similar to TikTok,

I'm like, "I'm gonna get more students,

I'm gonna get more, like, coaching clients

from TikTok if I post every day."

So again, whatever, your creation,

if you feel called to creation

or drawn to storytelling in whatever way,

I promise you prioritizing that

is going to make other

things in your life easier.

But if you put those other things first,

it's going to almost make

all of the space go out.

So yeah, I mean it's kind of

just rearranging and prioritizing.

And again, giving yourself

permission to do it badly.

Because every, like, you

have 10 minutes in the day

where you're walking in

the hallway, you can do it.

You're gonna think it's bad though.

That's the hurdle.

It's not the time.

- What's the worst video or

the worst piece of content

that you put out that was

actually the most successful?

- My highest viewed post of all time.

It's, like, 7 million views.

- Really?

- Yeah.

- You thought it was terrible,

you thought it was terrible

before you posted?

- I thought it was bad.

It was a three or four second clip

that I think I was just taking

to, like, send to a friend

or something on the tram.

I felt insecure because

my hair wasn't done.

I wasn't looking good,

it was bad lighting.

I put audio over it and it didn't work.

So I just put a robot voice and said.

- POV, you randomly decided to buy a house

that's only accessible by tram.

(tram grinding)

(keys chiming)

- It was a bad, it's a bad angle.

It's a bad piece of content

and it got 7 million views.

- Wow.

- If I would've

kept that in the drafts,

and it took three seconds to

make, literally three seconds,

if I would've kept that in the drafts,

I would've missed out

on all of this growth.

Again, it's the self-critical

part of ourselves.

We have to be like, "All

right, lemme put it out,"

and maybe it's gonna flop.

Maybe you're gonna put it

out and it's gonna flop.

I've had plenty of flops,

but if you find that one that

hits, it's like, rocket ship.

- So how do you look at the flops then?

Do you look at those as failure

or what, how do you kind

of put those in line

of all of the other

content that you've done?

- Well, I don't let myself

look at any flop individually.

If a video performs bad,

I'm like, "Okay, that's

just a data point."

It's all a data point.

And at the end of the month

or at the end of 10 videos,

then I can go back and

see what the patterns are,

because it's gonna become very clear,

"Oh, my message isn't bad.

I'm not bad, I'm not dumb," whatever.

But I notice that in these

three videos, I'm in my kitchen.

"And actually that's so weird.

People I guess don't like the kitchen.

And it's really dark.

Maybe that's why.

Maybe the lighting

just makes it hard for

people to see my face.

Interesting, I'll think about that."

But I have a lot of clients come to me

and they've only posted five posts ever.

And they're like, "Ugh, they did bad."

I'm like, "Okay, well you have to post 500

to really see, like, if they did bad,"

like, if you think a

piece of content did bad,

measure it against the

other low performing

pieces of content and

then you're gonna see why.

And it's never about you,

it's never your idea.

Because you could post a video

with an idea or a script that bombs

and post another idea with the same video,

same script that does great.

And it could be something as simple as

your audio is weird or your

hook wasn't very engaging

to that specific audience, you know?

Or maybe, like, your hashtags didn't work.

- Yeah or, like, the

time of day you posted,

right?

- Exactly.

It's not about you.

- Yeah, there's so much we can't control

when it comes to the content

that we put out there

that, you know, what

eyes even get to see it

much less how they react to it.

- That's why repurposing is so good too,

because you can repurpose

a bad piece of content

and it could perform great.

You could repurpose a amazing

performing piece of content.

It could bomb the second time,

like, you really don't know.

But it's, again, a way to double,

at least double your experiments

and your at bats by repurposing

all of your content.

And people aren't gonna remember it,

they're not gonna see it.

- Yeah, true, right?

How many videos have I watched?

And I could not tell

you that I've seen it.

Yeah, and I'm not really

an angry commenter either,

so it's like,

there's not a lot of

stuff I would take time

to even think about enough

to say anything much less

think anything negative about.

- Yeah.

But if it's a piece of

content we found value from,

we don't mind consuming it again.

Like, you, I'm sure

you've seen the same films

many times and you learn

something new every time.

Or maybe if you really

like a YouTube video,

you'll watch it again or listen

to the same podcast twice,

because there's so much information,

you wanna get it again, right?

Behavior change requires repetition.

And again, our content,

like, the goal of content

is to inspire behavior

change in other people.

So the more repetition we

actually have on an idea,

the more likely they're going

to change that behavior.

Whether it's, "You should

actually use this tool

instead of that tool,"

or, "You should plant

your seeds this way,"

or whatever it may be.

Repetition is an important part of that.

So what videos are in your drafts now

that you haven't posted?

(Courtney laughs)

- I have quite a few

videos in my drafts, a lot,

a lot of videos that are

me responding to questions,

like, answering somebody's questions,

and then during my draft,

because I'm like, this is

kind of a basic question,

or, "Is my answer inspiring

enough or important enough?"

So yeah, mostly question reply videos.

- Okay, so even, but even what,

I guess what I'm trying to get at

is even you who posts a ton of content,

even you have videos in your drafts

where you're like, "Maybe not."

- Yes, exactly.

(Amanda laughing)

But I try to force myself

to post once a day.

So I have to go back to those drafts

or I have to repurpose,

like, I make it a priority,

but yeah, I feel cringe all the time.

Like, all the time.

My cringe mountain

right now is going live.

So I've been challenging

myself to go live more,

because I feel so cringe about it.

Because I have to--

- Interesting.

- I have to talk for, like, an hour.

- I was gonna say, what

feels cringe about live?

- Because I'm talking to myself.

Well, at first, you go a

whole five or 10 minutes

where nobody is there,

but you have to look

like you're entertaining,

so people join it.

So I'm just talking to myself.

Yeah, okay, hey, like, usually

I try to pick some topic,

like 10 tips, and I'm saying these tips,

but no one is on it.

And then people will get on it

and then you're answering their questions

while you're talking, while

you're looking at your notes.

And it's just a lot at once.

And I start talking really

fast and get nervous.

So yeah.

- I've never

thought about that before.

Yeah, when you start a

live, like, who's watching?

Who's there?

- Nobody, and they show

a preview of your live.

So if you're just waiting,

nobody's gonna join it.

So you have to be talking to yourself.

- That is wild.

So, like.

- It's uncomfy.

- Like, one or five people join,

you're just like, "Oh, thank goodness."

- And then, like, the

one person will leave,

then you're like, "Okay, I guess

I'll talk to myself again."

It's so cringey.

It's, but I'm challenging

myself to get over it.

- I don't watch a ton of lives,

but the few that I have, you

know, kind of ventured into,

anytime that I ask a question

or leave a comment, I feel cringe.

Like, that's my cringe mountain

is even just leaving a comment

or asking a question on

a stranger's content,

to me just feels, I don't know, so weird.

- Yeah, it is weird,

because, yeah, I feel

weird doing that too,

'cause I feel like, "Oh,

this is, like, fan behavior,"

where, like, if somebody posts a video,

I'm like, "Oh, I'm encouraging them

and boosting up the post.

I'm gonna comment to, like, boost this,

because I really like it."

But I feel weird commenting

on people's lives too.

- Yeah, but then when people,

you know, comment on my post,

I'm like, "Oh, I got a comment."

- Yeah, me too, I'm like,

"Please comment, please comment.

Ask me your questions, please.

Like, I need something to answer.

I'm just, like, staring,

like, standing here by

myself doing nothing."

- Yeah, it's like when you're, you know,

just, like, out and about

maybe at Target or something,

and you see somebody with,

like, a really cute outfit

and really cute shoes

and you wanna tell them,

but you're not quite brave enough,

'cause you'll feel like you look silly,

but if somebody comes and tells you

that you have cute boots on,

you're like, "Oh my

God, thank you so much.

Made my whole day."

- Exactly.

- It's so funny.

- This is why I think a lot of,

like, salespeople are

really good at content,

at least, like, in our B2B SaaS world,

salespeople are great at content,

because they have rejection all the time.

They're always being rejected.

It is normalized for them.

And getting comfortable with

rejection is really important,

'cause you're gonna be rejected.

People aren't gonna like it.

People are gonna, whatever, that's fine.

It's almost like developing a muscle

where you're like, "Oh,

that's not about me.

That's actually about you.

Like, it's fine, it's cool."

- Yeah, it's just a data point.

- It's a data point.

- Yeah, I love that.

- It's a data point and

it's their responsibility.

Like, it's their task on how,

it's their business what

they think about you.

It's not your business, like,

that's going on in their head.

It's, distance yourself from it.

- Yeah, I feel like we could

open a whole nother door

to just talking about boundaries.

- I know.

- In general.

- Boundaries, exactly, boundaries.

- So one of the things

we haven't touched on yet

is you do all of this

yourself, essentially.

You don't have a staff.

You're a solopreneur, not an entrepreneur.

What's a solopreneur?

- I love the word solopreneur,

because it presents a different option

from what we're used to.

I think everyone thinks,

"All right, I either have

to have a full-time job

or be an entrepreneur and start a company

and manage all these people

and be responsible for all this stuff."

And those are not the only two options.

There are so many options and

so many things in between.

That's why I really like

the word solopreneur,

because it's essentially

me creating my own income

and my own life for me

where I don't necessarily

have to have a product or again,

be responsible for people,

because I don't really

like managing people

and I like flying solo.

It eliminates a lot of problems.

Yes, there is a smaller,

there's less potential.

I think if you start a huge enterprise,

you, there's more upper limits,

but not even really, like,

maybe as a solopreneur, you're

never gonna be a billionaire,

but, like, as somebody who maybe starts

and exits a huge tech company,

but okay, like, if that's the

only upper limit, that's fine,

but it's just an easier,

simpler way to go about it,

that yeah, eliminates a lot of problems

and also really puts everything

on your personal brand, which is great.

Like, it's again, monetizing

your personal brand.

- Yeah, so how do you

stay motivated to do that?

Because I think one of the

things that is the hardest

is maybe I have a bunch of great ideas,

there's a lot of cool

things I wanna share.

I'm not worried about cringe mountain,

but how, like, just staying focused

and motivated can that in and of itself,

right, can slow us down.

How do you tackle that?

- Yeah, that can be really hard.

I first, making content

creation a non-negotiable.

Like, I have to post

every day on something,

even if it's bad, like,

it is a non-negotiable.

I will literally post an Instagram Story

saying, "I don't know what to post today."

And like, boom, I did it, like,

as a minimum viable product.

The smallest, tiniest thing,

have to do it every day.

That's helpful,

because again, some

days are gonna show up,

it's not gonna be good,

but at least you're creating that habit

and once that habit is in place,

it's much harder to not

do it than to do it.

So that's been helpful.

I also have another tool,

it's called Flown, I think

it's flown.io, I'm not sure,

but it's, like, virtual coworking

where you go to a Zoom

call, you set an intention

and you kind of watch everybody

else work as you work.

And it could be for anything,

for on your computer or content creation.

Even some people go in, they're like,

"I'm gonna do my dishes."

And having other people

around you that are working

is really, really helpful.

So that's another,

I actually just started to

implement it a few weeks ago,

but that's another non-negotiable

I'm bringing in my day of,

can I do at least one of those a day

or maybe, like, two of

those a week or something?

So it's been helpful.

- And so it's just, like, an hour long,

is your camera on?

- Your camera has to be

on camera, it's required.

- Wow.

- Yeah, there's a couple

ones you could do 45 minute,

an hour, two hours, four hours.

And there's industry specific ones.

So some are general, then some are, like,

only for people that are writing books.

So you're writing your book

as you're around 10

people on the Zoom call

that are also writing your book.

And it just, like, switches

your brain into this go mode.

It also really teaches you,

like, the value of an hour.

You're like, "Wow, like, I got

so much done in this time."

I also think too, like, if I'm

gonna take on a new project,

do I wanna commit a whole

Flown a week to that project?

And that's helpful to contextualize it,

because a lot of times saying,

like, an hour or two hours,

it's gonna take this or

that to do it is not real.

It's not, like, tangible.

- So along with Flown,

this tool that you use,

how, is it just you, do

you have other people

that you employ that you

bring on from time to time

to help you create all of this content?

How do you, just the sheer volume

of, you know, all of the

content that you put out

that represents your brand is, it's large.

- The volume is really not that big.

It's all repurposed.

Like, the volume that

you see, it looks like,

"Wow, Courtney's creating

five Instagram posts a day

and all these TikToks

and all these Stories.

Like, how does she do it?"

I really just make one a day.

Most of it's repurposed.

I hire people from time to time.

I'm not, I hope I never have

to hire a full-time person,

but I have some contractors

and some tools that just help me repurpose

across different platforms.

So I really don't touch YouTube.

I have somebody that just

repurposes my content to YouTube.

I really don't touch Instagram Reels.

I have somebody that

repurposes that for me.

And then there's some,

again, some tools too

where I can schedule that

make it a lot easier.

And where do you find people who can,

you know, schedule things

for you in Instagram

and or, yeah, just take care

of some of those little tasks for you?

- Yeah, Upwork is great for

that, like, fantastic tool.

LinkedIn is really good as well.

- Interesting.

- And then I've had people

just cold outreach me

that I've worked with a few times saying,

"I really like your content.

I want to learn a little bit

more about what you're doing.

Can I, you know, you

can hire me to do this."

And I'm like, "Okay," so yeah.

But Upwork is probably the go-to.

- But there's also another, I guess,

good reason to actually

read all of your messages

too that you get on LinkedIn, right?

Because I'm sure, like, I get quite a few

and I don't have the

same following, but yeah.

Do you read all of your messages

and all of your comments that you get?

- I do, but I'm starting to

become a little too much,

because I find myself doing that

as almost a thing where I'm

trying to be productive,

but I'm not really,

like, it's not productive

to go in and read every comment

and it's not productive to go through

my spam Instagram message folder.

But yeah, it's something that

I, it's not a productive task,

but I feel like it is in the moment,

even though I know it's not.

So it's something I'm trying to get over

and, like, work to not do.

It's like checking your email

or your Slack all the time,

or even scrolling through LinkedIn.

I think this is a reason

why LinkedIn works so well

is because scrolling through LinkedIn

is a way to feel productive at work

when it's, like, the afternoon,

you're like, "I'm doing

something work-related,"

but it's not really.

- I'm doing that three o'clock.

- Three o'clock, you're like,

"Let's see what's going on on LinkedIn."

- Yeah.

- Well, go,

go take up space on LinkedIn,

because everyone's

scrolling at three o'clock

to try to look productive at the office.

- Interesting, is that true though?

Is that real?

Like, there are certain times of day

where LinkedIn kind of,

like, flares up the usage?

- (laughs) Yeah, but, yes,

but LinkedIn is so global

that it's really geography.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- So three o'clock in the United States.

- Three o'clock in the US.

- Is not the same as...

- Yes, exactly.

Yeah, there's a billion

people on LinkedIn now,

so that's, like, huge, all over the world.

But I post everything in the morning,

because I also feel like

that's a kind of a morning task too.

You, like, are a little bit

afraid to tackle your inbox,

so you're just gonna check LinkedIn first.

But yes, check your LinkedIn messages.

There's always, you know,

and a lot of people think

LinkedIn messages are,

it's only recruiters in there or whatever,

but it could be someone

that wants to interview you for something.

It could be a small side

project you take on.

It could be somebody,

maybe a college student

wanting some advice

or even somebody that

potentially wants to work

for the company that you're

at and wants a referral.

Like, there's so many opportunities

that can come out of it.

So yeah, check your messages.

- So we've talked a lot about LinkedIn,

about TikTok, Instagram,

so these are channels that

you use to post your content,

but another thing that you do a lot of

is you create these courses

that you have people sign up for.

And just in general,

what I think is really interesting

about your solopreneurship is

you have this personal brand

where you create educational

content on making content,

and then you just look at

a lot of different ways

to tell people about that.

Tell me about that kind of mentality

around not just doing TikTok

or LinkedIn or courses,

but a little bit of everything.

- Yeah, I wanna have

multiple streams of income,

so I'm not reliant on one thing,

because I've been laid off.

I've also been a freelancer

that has had one huge client.

That, you know, contract goes down

and you, multiple times

where I relied too much on one thing.

So I, in monetizing my knowledge

around social media and

marketing and content

and all of that, I try to

find different streams,

so I'm not focused only on one thing.

So I have a paid Patreon, I

have a mentorship program.

And then yeah, I have my courses on Maven,

which is also a really good tool.

They're actually here in Austin as well.

And it's a great live teaching platform,

so it's not an asynchronous course,

it's, like, you're going

through with small groups

and it just, the results that

come out of it are much bigger

because there's that, again,

similar to the stuff on Flown,

you're seeing other people

do the same thing as you're doing it.

And the motivation that comes

from it is really great,

because when it comes to

something like social media,

the cringe mountain is so big

that you almost have to have that support

or you're just not gonna do it.

And I would be putting out stuff

that's, like, not helping people.

- Yeah, I think what's so

interesting about the course

and then taking the class

because it's not async

is that yeah, you meet people

and then you can get over it together.

There's something really powerful

in the community part of it.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- So would you say that the community

that you've been able to

create around these different courses

around all of the people

that you've taught,

people that reach out

to you in the comments

or maybe text you on the side

or email you on the side, is that,

is that what kind of keeps you going?

Does that kinda lead to

kind of growing your passion

and what you're doing

with this, like, brand,

teaching people about

their personal brands?

- Yeah, what keeps me going

is seeing the results.

Like, seeing somebody reach out and say,

"Oh, I got a job because of you,"

or, "I got my first

client because of you."

Or maybe someone that runs a brand account

and they're like, we're, you know,

we're seeing more traction,

because we're implementing this stuff

on our Instagram or TikTok or whatever.

And seeing other people's

results is what keeps me going,

because I'm like, "Okay,

I'm having an impact,

this is important.

Like, I need to keep

doing what I'm doing."

And I'm really passionate about it too.

It's very fun and I am obsessed with it.

Like, it is a fun thing.

And again, I think if you

follow your obsession,

it's hard to not lose as

long as you keep going.

- Ooh, so then what's hard

about your day to day then?

If you're doing what you're

passionate about all the time,

what's the part that you're

like, "Oh man, you know,

I gotta do this today?"

- I hate to say it publicly,

but (laughs)

the hardest part is client work,

because I'm still doing client work

and I'm not to the point yet

where I can release those projects

and only focus on my own content.

So the thing that I'm like,

"Eh, I don't really like this,"

is making other people's content,

making, it's not that I don't like it,

it's definitely been a fun part

and a very important part of my journey,

but I don't wanna do

social media management

of other people's stuff forever,

because it's almost like

writing for somebody else,

creating art for somebody else.

Or even for a brand,

it's like creating

something through a voice

that's not even, like, a real human.

So that can be draining,

especially since I'm, like,

using my creative energy

on something else.

So I'd, like, to do less of that

and that's kind of what I dread.

Sorry, clients, love you guys.

- So as you're managing

other people's brands,

what is it that they're

doing wrong, just in general?

What do kind of B2B, B2C companies,

what are they not implementing

that you think would make

them more successful?

- Yeah, the main reason

why most organizations

just suck on social media

is there's not a ton of creative freedom

for the marketing team.

And I think we have this battle of

maybe, like, a CRO or

maybe the head of marketing

or whatever, battling

with the team of marketing

being like, "No, I

actually really understand

the culture of what I'm putting out."

Like with this, you guys

understand the culture of podcasts

and you understand what goes into it.

Same as social,

you have to really understand

the culture of social,

but that's really hard

to explain to someone

that's leading the marketing team

that maybe isn't super involved in that.

So I think there's way

too much overplanning,

overstrategizing and not

enough, like, art in it,

like, actual creative, fun ideas.

That's number one.

Number two, there's not enough people.

Most brands only feed all of their content

through a non-human entity.

Like, it is their logo and their branding,

which is so important.

It is so important.

But if they want their

customers to connect,

they have to incorporate people.

Maybe that is doing some

sort of content series

with your team, with your

founder, CEO, whoever,

doing some sort of thought leadership,

having employee takeovers of the page.

Just having people on the page

is what is going to want

to make people follow,

and too much buttoned up, on brand,

like, having to be that all the time.

Nobody wants to follow that.

Nobody is excited for your next webinar.

What they are excited for

is becoming a better version of themselves

and what your webinar can help them do.

Oh, you can help them learn

to use the product in this way

that impresses their boss

or actually saves them

three hours of work a week?

Like, that's how you need

to be positioning stuff.

And then again, coming in from

personal brands and people,

don't just promote this, like, random logo

of a webinar you're doing, but

who's the person behind it?

Who are you gonna be learning from?

Why are they cool?

Why do you wanna, like, hear from them?

When you can have a

human-focused social media,

it's always gonna perform well,

but being too brand-focused

actually doesn't work.

- Yeah, I think that's really cool too,

the just kind of the, like,

circular nature of that, right?

So if employees or just people in general

have a strong personal brand

and then they can lend

that to the, you know,

the company's brand,

then they can, you know,

essentially, you know, what's that word?

- Like, symbiotic?

- Yeah, symbiotic.

- Symbiotic, yes.

A symbiotic relationship.

Well, this is a great example of a great,

a social strategy is creating

a podcast with humans,

like, actual people in your organization

that your audience can get to know

and really, like, find value in.

And then having people like me

and other guests on the podcast is great.

Like, this is a human-focused

social media strategy

that you can obviously

distribute this content.

It's way, it's infinitely

more entertaining

and valuable than being like,

"Here's our newest product feature."

That's great, but it's really

hard to get people to care.

It's hard.

- Yeah, yeah.

- It's hard.

- So evidence of that kind of success then

is when somebody reaches out to you

and says, "Hey, I got a job."

Or asks a question about,

"Hey, how would I do this?

How would I approach this

situation with my boss?"

How does, we kind of

touched on this already,

just, like, that that means

your content was successful

and that helps drive your passion.

But how does, as cheesy as it sounds,

like, how does that make you feel

when you find out your content has worked

and it's achieved its goal?

- At first, it made me feel almost bad,

because I couldn't, you know,

like, if somebody's like,

"Oh, you look great

today," and you're like,

"Oh, well, I got this shirt

for $10 on the sale rack."

Like, you're almost putting down yourself.

- I totally do that.

- Me too.

So I would actually play it down

and I felt insecure about it.

I'm like, well, you did it yourself.

Like, I didn't really help

you because you could've like,

and I realized that I

wasn't allowing myself

to, like, take a compliment.

So yeah, it made me feel bad

and then I had to get over that

and now I feel empowered.

It used to scare me.

And which is important to think about,

because a lot of times these

wins that happen in our life,

or with content creation, you go viral,

something great happens, whatever,

it can feel scary where you shut down.

The amount of people I've

talked to that are like,

"I went viral once,

scared the shit outta me,

totally deleted my account."

So yeah, started off

feeling insecure about it,

but now I'm feeling more

confident and really happy.

And again, it's so encouraging,

because it makes me want to keep going.

- And so how do you respond

now instead of saying,

"Oh my gosh, I got this

shirt for only $10."

What's the equivalent now?

- Yeah, just gratitude.

I say, like, "Thank you.

Not just thank you for telling me that,

but thank you for your encouragement."

Like, I let them know,

"Thank you for being

here and supporting me."

Again, it's a symbiotic relationship.

Yeah, just with gratitude.

- I love that.

Okay, well, thank you again

for coming on one of

our inaugural episodes

of "The Rough Draft."

We were so excited to have you.

I think that was such a fun

conversation that we had.

- Yeah, this was great, thank

you so much for having me.

- Yeah, we're gonna put

all of the information

about the tools and the

things that you mentioned

in the show notes, and then

also you have a podcast

coming out this month as well.

Tell me about it.

- So I have a podcast called

"Slay the Gatekeeper."

It comes out sometime in February

and it's all about ungatekeeping

the cheat codes of life.

So we have career cheat

codes, marketing cheat codes,

personal brand cheat codes,

and then some cheat codes

about some other topics.

It's gonna be a lot of fun,

but we're kind of cutting the fluff,

getting right to tactical wins,

like tactical things

that you can implement

in your life right now

that are gonna make a big change.

So I'm really excited about that project.

- Okay, and where can people reach you?

Where can they find you,

find out about the podcast,

your Patreon, all of that good stuff?

- Yeah, you can find me on

Instagram, courtlynnjohnson,

or on TikTok @courtney..johnson

and all of my info, all my

links, everything is there.

- Awesome, well, thanks

again for joining us

and thanks for such a fun chat.

- Thank you, Amanda.

(gentle upbeat music)

- All right, that's it for today's episode

of "The Rough Draft."

To learn more about our guest

and to find links and resources

related to the conversation,

check out rev.com/podcast.

That's rev.com/podcast.

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