In this episode, Tom Lawson interviews Philip Britton, chair of the HMC, exploring the role of independent schools, collaboration, and the future of education. Discover insights on leadership, community impact, and the importance of belonging within the sector.

Welcome back to Series 3 of the HMC podcast.

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Through this podcast series, we hope

to bring you inspiration during these

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turbulent times in education, providing

a service for HMC members and raising

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awareness with a wider audience.

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Do please get in touch with

ideas, questions, or comments

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by email to [email protected].

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We're covering an eclectic

range this series.

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We've had lots of practical ideas

on how to make partnerships work for

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you, talked intergenerational service,

and we'll cover safety in rugby.

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I hope we can be relaxed, conversational,

occasionally controversial, and perhaps

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even mildly humorous, providing some

bite-sized relaxation as you avoid

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writing your speech day soliloquy or

whenever you listen to your podcasts.

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All views expressed by my

guests or me are our own.

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Son of the 21st century, born of

Heaven, genius among geniuses, respected

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father, are just some of the titles

appended to Kim Jong Un, but such

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superlatives are not needed for our

supreme leader, Philip Britton, my guest.

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So, Comrade Chairman,

welcome to the podcast

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Philip: Th-thank you very

much and welcome to you

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Tom: And what's it like

being chair of the HMC?

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Philip: I, it is a huge pleasure to

engage with so many different colleagues

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ac- across so many different schools.

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Look I've been a member of HMC for

18 years now and I thought I knew and

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engaged with the organization well.

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But being chair elect and now chair ha-

has given me such a broader canvas on

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which to see all the so many different

facets of our organization and so

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many different schools serving their

communities in so many different ways

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Tom: And has anything

surprised you about, HMC?

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Philip: I, I think the uh, the

pleasurable realization i-is that breadth.

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uh, v-very often we all view the

HMC through o-our own lens of the

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type of school and perhaps even

the type of division we work in.

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But the breadth of our, our

reach in communities across

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the uh, the UK and beyond.

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I would s-say the other thing i-is

understanding better the e-enormous

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body of work done by colleagues

in head office on our behalf.

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I think that, that's something that

until you get behind the curtain and

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see what is being done for us uh,

it's difficult to fully appreciate

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a-al- all of the work that takes place

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Tom: The Market Harborough

Politburo is not something that

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most people really know about.

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What happens in the kinda

Leicestershire Kremlin?

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Philip: Well, I think look the HMC

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is a, a membership organization, isn't it?

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And I think one of our great strengths

is trying to understand what members

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wish to, to have done on their behalf.

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A- and indeed sometimes direct members to

things that they ought to be thinking of

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even if they hadn't thought about them.

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A- and that was something

that needed to be done.

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I think what we see in in Market

Harborough is uh, obviously

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the team of people we bump into

at our divisional meetings.

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But also the enormous body of work

that is needed to have the professional

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development courses and the conferences

and all of that infrastructure run for us.

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And I think I've seen that particularly

at the conferences I've attended

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that are for deputy heads a- and

for other parts of our schools.

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Because in my time in HMC that, that

has been a huge burgeoning area.

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You're a lo- long gone are the days

where this was a club for heads.

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It is a genuine service for our

schools, and all of the activity that

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goes into that is, is wonderful to see

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Tom: Well, certainly I only visited

the office in Market Harborough

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for the first time this academic

year, and I f- I've, I felt the

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office was sort of extraordinarily

efficient and very warm actually.

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So that was a great pleasure being there.

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talking about the deputy head, HMC

conference and so on, I also remember

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that stage in my career as being warm.

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You talked about 18 years.

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Tell us a little bit about your

journey as an HMC member and what

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divisions and places it's taken you to.

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Philip: Yeah.

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So th-thank you.

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I have been always a

member in the Northwest.

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My, my 18 years are all at Bolton School,

although in two different roles there.

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One, one within the boys

division and one now o-overseeing

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the whole of our foundation.

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And if we just start with that divisional

structure, I think it has enormous

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strengths i-i-in uh, u-understanding

the context we're all working in.

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Uh, I-in, in providing collegiality,

being able to pick up the phone

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to colleagues li-likely to be

at least in the same context.

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So, so the divisions are

certainly a strength.

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I think there is a weakness.

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There is a weakness that

inevitably around any of those

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tables we will be occasionally

in competition with one another.

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A-and I think that we can lift the

dialogue beyond that competition

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to collaboration i-is great.

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I'm a joiner in.

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From my early days I was part of what was

once the Public Affairs and PR Committee.

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That then became the Communications

Committee, which I chaired for many years.

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And either being chair or secretary of

the division or through communications

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I've been around board and council

for the best part o-of a decade

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seeing those structures e-e-e-evolve.

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And I use the word evolve there.

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There, there is revolution.

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You touched on political allusions there.

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Our association is so much more fit

for purpose i-in supporting our schools

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tha-than it was a dozen years ago.

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And I think that is so

vital in these modern times

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Tom: I would uh, uh, in advance of

our Desert Island Discs section, I

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would recommend a book that I uh,

used to recommend Oxbridge economics

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and business type candidates,

management type candidates called

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"Co-opetition" by Nail, Buff and Dixit.

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And it points out that firms

in the same industry are often

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in quite tough competition, but

also they need to cooperate.

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So for us, we need to have, for

us all to benefit, a great fixture

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program that works with integrity and

mutual support, and in so many ways.

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And I'm, I'm very grateful to the

colleagues in the South East Division.

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Even though there is quite ruthless

competition, we're a supportive division.

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And do you think the code of

conduct is going to help HMC

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sort of get that, um, sense of

collegiality across all divisions?

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Philip: I think i-it is e-essential,

and I also think it's really

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essential that members think

through what HMC actually is.

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I think it's really important we hear the

quiet voice as well as those who have very

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strongly he-held views because a members

organization must reflect its members.

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A-and I think how we engage i-in divisions

and how we deliberate is really hugely

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important as a as an evolving area.

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Sometimes I hear people refer

to HMC at divisional meetings

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as if it were not them.

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In fact, several times I've attended a

divisional meeting and said to people,

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"Who the hell do you think HMC is?"

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You know, you are HMC, and the head office

staff, and our CEO, Simon, driving that

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work along, and the board and the council.

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All of these things are HMC.

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There, there isn't a, a-an operator

behind the scenes or something off stage.

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It, It is our collective

effort that goes into that.

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And I would encourage members

to, to join in, i-in that regard.

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A-and the code of conduct piece

i-is, I think, far more than that.

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It, It is uh, about how we feel a

sense of belonging i-in what is our

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organization because clearly the

old metrics of how big your sixth

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form was or how good your A-level

results were are, are all proxies for

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Or even being charitable.

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They are all proxies for something else.

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Uh, In times gone by a size of sixth

form was a sense of financial stability.

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Perhaps in times gone by, being charitable

was a sense of doing the right thing.

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And now we need to kick all of that

over and ask ourselves, "Just a moment.

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What is it to be one of us?

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Uh, What is it to be-belong

to our association?

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What sort of behaviors with one

another uh, and expressing to the

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outside world does that involve?"

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And for me, th-this piece around code of

conduct and belonging needs to take as

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long as it takes for us to work out what

on earth we are uh, how we wish to behave

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with one another, and how we're going

to charge together against the headwinds

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to make our sector all it can be.

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Tom: Well, I'm glad you say that because

I think it is a real opportunity, and

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I think too many members feel that

the boat has sailed and we've gone

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into a era of ruthless competition

and I don't think in the long run

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that's good for us or our sector.

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so in the Desert Island Discs section,

what would be your one book you'd

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take to help you as chair of HMC?

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Philip: Well, well, ob-obviously I'd

like to suggest The Madness of Crowds.

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Uh, B-b-because and if people have

uh, have not read that book I, I, I

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think it, it helps us uh, u-understand

our schools a-and our organization

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a-and the wider world so, so well.

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The sense that very often one, one can

be in discussion with an individual

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a-a-and have a rational, sensible, clear

discussion, whether that be a parent, a

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colleague or s- or a fellow member of HMC.

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A-a-and yet wh-when such gather together

in different groups the smallest i-i-input

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from some can create the magnified output.

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I think uh, if colleagues have not

read that, that book, albeit in a very

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different context it will tell them such

a lot about what they need to know about

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why their common room at school is as

it is why parents behave as they are,

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a-and for that matter, why a divisional

meeting and conference does what it does

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Tom: Well, I'm gonna read it straight

after we've recorded this podcast.

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It sounds extremely useful.

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Speaker: Just a quick

message while you're here.

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My name's Simon and I run The

Bonjour Agency, the company

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behind the HMC Podcast.

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Now, you might be listening to this

episode thinking it could be good to have

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a podcast for your own school marketing.

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More and more parents are listening

to podcasts than ever before,

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and it's a great way to share the

human side of your school so that

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people feel more connected to it.

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To find out more, just

visit thebonjouragency.com

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and listen to other examples

from schools such as Downe

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House, Mount Kelly, and Whitgift.

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But for now, let's get

back into this episode.

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Tom: I don't know whether you've thought

of song titles or even styles of music

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or tempo that might reflect the HMC.

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I suggest with your chairmanship,

"You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" is

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the rock standard we might go for.

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Have you any, any ideas about h- what

music would go with your chairmanship?

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Philip: You know, I, I think th-that,

that when I was dwelling on that

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question, I think to reflect the

whole range of HMC i-in, in a musical

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uh, p-piece is so dif-dif-difficult.

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But it is a lovely thought piece, isn't

it, that members might like to just do for

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themselves as they listen to this podcast.

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You know, are they the sort of m-member

that is the loudly sounding organ with

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its full 32-foot stop going, but perhaps

not all that gentle on the upper flutes?

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Or are they the more modern rock band

trying to fit a traditional school

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into a modern marketing uh, piece?

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I think it's a lovely whimsical

piece and perhaps should be an

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icebreaker at all divisional meetings.

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You know, if members to…

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w-w-were to say what

type of music are you?

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What I would wish to to be is i-it…

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and I couldn't name a particular

piece but is something uh, that,

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that gives a sense of purpose.

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B-because if I, I have been nothing

else, what I've been trying to do i-is

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to be i-inclusive to be a-acknowledging

of headwinds but to be hopeful.

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And so hope is what I would

capture i-in a musical piece

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Tom: Well, I think sometimes

that's all we have is hope.

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But maybe all we should have is love.

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And, you know, it's a bit of

a Bohemian Rhapsody, isn't it?

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With me providing the falsetto

comedy moments and a whole range

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of eclectic musical styles mixed

into an iconic piece of music.

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What's your favorite thing about the HMC?

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Philip: W- without

doubt my, my colleagues.

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No, no question.

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What I have gained most from membership

over 18 years, and as I say i- if I, if

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some of those listening to us are not

those who are inclined to join in o- one

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thing I'd just like to say to everyone

is w- when that opportunity comes to

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join a committee or to be secretary

of the division, d- don't imagine

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that's just something you must groan

and put on a show and do reluctantly.

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Uh, Throw yourself in and join in.

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Be- because the more different

types of group that we have you,

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you're, you're part of, the more

different people you will meet.

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A- and the joy that I, I've taken

from uh, informal connections with

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colleagues formally working with

colleagues, i- it is just a l- a

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lovely piece of our organization.

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A- and people say, don't they,

that being a head is a lonely job

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and your friendships within school

must be very different to that.

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Perhaps they were when you were a deputy

and certainly when you were a teacher.

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But where I have found real

friendship, real collegiality, a-

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and frankly, some really talented,

interesting people to talk to.

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You know, we are an amazing group of folk.

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A- and to meet one another and get

beyond the how are you and how big

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is your school and how are you doing,

a- answers which we never answer we

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never answer those questions honestly.

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We're, We're always all doing

well, our school is fine and

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all no- nothing to see here.

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Once you get beyond that

flimflam, there are some really

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interesting people to get to know.

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A- and that is the joy

that I've taken from HMC.

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Tom: Well, I agree, and I think

at first it was interesting.

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I was enthusiastic sort of collegiate

person at the deputy heads conference

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of the HMC, and I found everyone

there incredibly supportive.

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And when I started at the very

f- of my headship and going to

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the conference, I thought, "Oh,

it's not quite so supportive.

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People are s- still in that kind of

marketing mode of saying their school is

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brilliant and everything is going well."

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And I think over time, I've

made good friends and I've got

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beneath that carapace, and it,

it's been really wonderful.

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And, And the more I think folk

understand that, you know, it's just

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a defensive mechanism when people

say everything's great, but actually

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what we can use that collegiality for

is to share our vulnerabilities, if

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you like, and enjoy those friendships

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Philip: No I think that,

that is hugely wise advice.

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I've been involved a lot in the

induction courses HMC runs for heads

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who are about to start, just started,

and most recently the one for heads

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three years or so in-into the role.

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And I think another thing that those of us

who've been around a while could usefully

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un-understand is that a new generation

is arriving and is leading our schools,

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and they do come from a different place.

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In some cases a d- a different

generation, bringing a whole

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different set of attitudes around

what it is to to, to collaborate.

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A-and yeah you, you will know

a-as I do that our organization

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genuinely is transformed

whilst we have been part of it.

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And the sense that that there

are some colleagues you couldn't

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possibly speak to 'cause they're

from seriously important schools.

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I-if I was to be, if I was to be honest,

what I really hope is that how I look

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at conference now i-is not how some of

the people who were 18-year-old seasoned

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heads that I saw when I was brand new.

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Uh, I, I really do look at myself in

the mirror and hope beyond hope that is

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not how I behave, and it doesn't feel

e-e-exclusive and that there is a group

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who always talk to one another, but

that there is so much more e-engagement.

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I, I really hope that's true.

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I-if it isn't, let's bring

ourselves up short and do better

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Tom: Well, I think, Philip, you've

explained really well why HMC is

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a valuable members organization.

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Um, what's the public purpose of the HMC?

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Philip: I think it is to provide a voice

for our schools and a place where our

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schools can Represent themselves publicly.

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and th-this is a hugely important,

again, live discussion, isn't it?

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H-how do we wish our

schools to be seen publicly?

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What messages do we want the

public to hear about our schools?

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And how do we wish to collaborate with

other associations i- in order to do that?

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And so there in the very recent example

is members are in a whole load, a

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whole spectrum of positions on whether

HMC alongside ISC did or did not do

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a good job a- around the political

piece leading up to the last election

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a- and There, there are members who

feel that more should have been done.

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Sometimes can't articulate

as clearly as would be useful

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what that more would have been.

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Uh, Th- there are those who think

that the strategy to see i- if there

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was a, an after election moment i-

in order to discuss impact uh, would

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exist and keep relationships open.

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The rigorous lens uh, you know, 2020

hindsight shows us that there was

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not that post-election moment for

parleying, but there could have been.

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And I'm not quite sure those

who argue that there never was

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going to be actually knew that.

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Clearly the 2020 hindsight makes

them really certain that is true.

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I think the, the live discussion amongst

members, whether they would rather…

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The way I put it is uh, would members

rather be part of Les Mis manning the

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barricades or, or part of Hamilton

in the room where it happened?

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Perhaps that takes us back

to our musical illusions.

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For me, I was always part of the

in the room where it happens.

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And that was what we were trying

to achieve, still are trying to

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achieve through public affairs.

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Uh, What happened to the people on

the barricades is it all sounded

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good, but they ended up being shot.

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Uh, not, Not perhaps an elegant

illusion, but it wasn't a, there

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wasn't a happy ending to Les Mis.

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And I think we need to keep some skin

in the game in publicly representing

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the value of independent schools.

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But the live discussion and the

discussion that I hope those listening

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to the podcast might, might might

just mull over in their heads is

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what do we want that messaging to be?

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That's what we've been

discussing in divisions all year.

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What do we want people

to know about our sector?

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I would go for its diversity, where

we are a hugely diverse sector.

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I would go for that our schools really

matter to our local communities.

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Where they are beginning to

close, beginning to change,

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beginning to be smaller.

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That doesn't just impact the school

and the parents and the pupils.

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It, it impacts the local community,

and that is important and a

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message we must drill home.

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The ability for us to be a lens

and mirror through which to view

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state education, hugely important.

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We have a civic role to hold state

education to account by providing

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an alternative and independent view.

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And we walk on an international

stage, which isn't about the

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minutiae of the discussions had in

divisions just now about what the

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international division is or is not.

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It is the brutal reality that our very

best independent schools in the UK stand

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alongside the very best independent

schools internationally, which lifts

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us above the plane of, provincial,

parochial national politics to say that

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independence in education is crucial.

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And that is why we must- uh, the way

I would stand on the barricades is let

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us not be talking private education.

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We are independent, and what

our voice must be i- is why

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independence is important for

society not just for our schools

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Tom: Well, that's stirring

stuff, Comrade Chairman.

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And, you know, I think it's pointless

re-legislating what we could have done.

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I suspect if we had been in the room with

Jacobins as aristos, you still got your

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head chopped off, to continue the analogy.

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It's very difficult thing to

do, but the question now is

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how we move forward, isn't it?

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And what we do to make sure that

the public impact to the HMC and the

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policy impact is as great as possible.

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So, before I ask you your luxury

item to close out the episode, is

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there anything else you'd like our

listeners to, to know before I close up?

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Philip: I think I, I just take a moment to

re- return to the wider service that HMC,

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I think, is now providing our schools.

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Because now and again I worry that

some members o- understandably in busy

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lives haven't quite u- understood.

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It's a version of joining in, isn't it?

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But i- if you're he- heads of six,

futures people, deputy heads across

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all the different functions, if you're

in a single-sex school, if you're in a

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boarding school there, there are networks

for all of those functions a- and other.

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And if your colleagues in school are

not connected wi- with those tho- those

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networks then uh, we, you are missing out.

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They are missing out and your school

is missing out because that is where

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that collegiality is happening if

they don't attend the conferences

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for those particular groups.

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One of the things I'm really pleased

about at the moment is the e-

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educational research, the impact research

group that is beginning to burgeon.

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That is an example of how our schools,

being independent, can be nable ni-

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nimble mo- move through education for the

advantage of all and make a difference.

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And if if colleagues perhaps

are, and I understand why, hugely

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focused on the everyday a- and the

existential it really is true that

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we will ha- be, have independent

schools in five and 10 years' time.

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And what they look like and what

their contribution to society is

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about what we do now through those

networks in developing our messaging.

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So, so if I have a plea a-

at all, it, it is join in.

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Please join in with your

association because it is not

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something that does things to you.

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Uh, It is not just something

that provides you with a service.

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It is somewhere where we can

all join together to be better

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than we could be on our own.

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Tom: Well, join in, join

up, stronger together.

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Philip, thank you for your service

to heads of HMC, and thank you

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so much for sparing the time.

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And as an HMC member, thank you for

all you do to support our community.

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your luxury item

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Philip: Oh w- would, my, my, my luxury

item may not sound all that luxury.

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My, my joy i- is the outdoors, the hills.

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What I would take is a really high

quality tent, which would of course

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would be useful to me o- on a desert

island but will be useful to me too

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in, in getting out and about, a- and

enjoying life beyond our schools, which

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is another thing that, that I hope all

of our members will much mu- much enjoy

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Tom: Well, I hope you enjoy nature

over the summer holiday and get that

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headspace that you so thoroughly deserve.

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So thank you to Philip, and

thank you all for listening.

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My thanks to Katie Williams and all

at HMC who put it together, and my

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producer Simon from the Bonjour Agency.

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That's the "Cheerfulness in Challenging

Times" episode done and dusted.

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I've been your host, Tom Lawson.

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Sayonara for now

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Philip: Thank you