00:00 Introduction and Super Bowl Recap

01:06 Addressing Listener Questions on Sin and Evil

02:01 The Role of Suffering in Christian Life

06:45 Leviticus: Offerings and Gratitude

08:52 Consecration of Aaron and His Sons

12:46 God's Holiness and Approval of Sacrifices

13:42 New Testament Insights: Matthew 25

13:57 Interpreting Jesus' Words

14:26 Interpreting Scripture in Context

14:47 Commands Taken at Face Value

15:20 Understanding Jesus' Teachings

16:33 The Art and Science of Hermeneutics

18:38 Recommended Reading for Biblical Interpretation

19:59 Interpreting Matthew 25

23:08 Eternal Conscious Torment vs. Annihilationism

27:31 Concluding Thoughts and Prayer

Find out more about Compass Bible Church.

Learn more about our Bible Reading Plan.

Questions or Comments? Email us podcast@compassntx.org

Hey folks.

2

Welcome back to another edition

of the Daily Bible Podcast.

3

Hello.

4

We are back on Monday, so

kicking off another week, and

5

we are, we're into February.

6

February's here upon us.

7

I know a lot of people said January

feels like the longest month of the year.

8

It didn't feel like that

to me, at least this year.

9

It went by pretty quickly.

10

And now here we are.

11

Trucking along with the newly

crowned Super Bowl champions Pass.

12

Rod, who won the game again last night?

13

The San Diego Supercharger baby.

14

Come on.

15

Yeah.

16

Come on guys.

17

Yeah they're, they don't exist anymore.

18

They're the Los Angeles Chargers now.

19

Oh, oops.

20

So, and they're not in

the Super Bowl Oh, Butler.

21

You know.

22

Hey, either the Patriots or the Seahawks,

congratulations on winning the game.

23

They're always in the Super Bowl.

24

Is that, what's his face again?

25

Is that still that, that guy, well see.

26

Tom Brady retired.

27

He's now an announcer.

28

And he, I bet he misses it.

29

He owns part of the Las Vegas Raiders,

just to confuse things even more.

30

Oh, that's, that's unfortunate.

31

Yeah.

32

But there's this young superstar

quarterback for the Patriots now, and he's

33

going up against this guy that named Sam.

34

Anyways, we'll see.

35

We'll see who wins.

36

Yeah.

37

Yeah, that sounds fun.

38

I mean, you know, now that you're

listening to this on Monday, but yeah.

39

Anyways, follow up.

40

Question from more questions yesterday.

41

Yes.

42

So this was a two part email.

43

The first one had to do with

the fact that God doesn't see.

44

Our weight rather all sin equally.

45

And we talked about that.

46

We say that God does in fact

weight them in a more complex way.

47

He takes heart and mat and mind.

48

He considers a whole host of things

and things that we can't even see.

49

Secondly he wants to clarify.

50

That God allows evil for a greater good.

51

Now, this is one argument that typically

falls under the category of the Odyssey,

52

which means a justification for God.

53

We're trying to say and it's the question

that plagues a lot of Christians, why

54

does God allow evil in the first place?

55

And Christians have

attempted to answer that.

56

Impartially for sure.

57

'cause we don't have God's access.

58

But we do try to answer that.

59

And one of the ways that we talk

about that is, well, God will permit

60

evil only to the degree that it

is necessary for a greater good.

61

Can you clarify that?

62

Talk about anything that you want to

add on top of that to make that clearer?

63

Yeah, I mean that, I feel

like John Piper's kind of

64

built a ministry on this idea.

65

He speaks a lot about God's providence

and providence over suffering providence

66

over evil, and how God works things out

towards the good for those who love him.

67

And, I think our defense and.

68

Foundation of it really has

to go back to that verse.

69

We have to go back to Romans 8

28 and say if this is true, then

70

what you're saying has to be true.

71

If it is true that God's working all

things together for the good of the

72

one who loves him, then that means

even the things that are evil that

73

take place in our lives, even the

sins that are perpetuated against us.

74

Are things that happen for our

good, for our Christ-likeness.

75

And so that, that's a component of it.

76

I think that the thing that causes us

to wrestle even more is when we have

77

to ask the question, okay, but what

about the atrocious evils in the world?

78

What about the horrible things that are

unspeakable even for us to bring up in a

79

context like this on a podcast like this?

80

What about that is, is that still, is

God still behind that for good and.

81

I think we have to say yes with

the caveat that we may never

82

understand why this side of eternity

as in prior to our death, right?

83

Yeah.

84

It's, this is a tricky

situation to talk about.

85

'cause when we say good, we're

often defining it in terms that are

86

relative to our human experience.

87

We say, oh, it's the sky is blue today.

88

The sun's out.

89

That's good.

90

We like that.

91

Mm-hmm.

92

Mm-hmm.

93

Um, we used good in such a generic

and generalized way that it

94

almost becomes unhelpful because

it's not specific and clear.

95

So I guess I would say, I think

we're both on the same page.

96

We would say that whatever God permits

to happen, because he's in sovereign

97

control of all things, every molecule in

the universe, known and unknown elements.

98

They're all under his

sovereign control and purposes.

99

Nothing happens outside of his

direct control and supervision.

100

So if that's true, then we have to

say that even evil is under God's

101

control, and yet God chooses not to

intervene to stop all evil, right?

102

People have said before,

well, why doesn't God do that?

103

If he's all powerful and he's all

these things, why doesn't he do that?

104

And part of the answer to that is that

God has an agenda, he's got a plan, and

105

he's got a plan of redemption where he's

still in the business of saving people.

106

Mm-hmm.

107

And I think that's gonna be the

biggest reason that he delays.

108

If God were to cease all evil today,

right now, there would be no podcast.

109

All of us would be obliterated.

110

We'd be gone.

111

Yeah.

112

There'd be no one left for

God to save because everybody

113

would get their just desserts.

114

And of course, that's not heaven.

115

And that's something else.

116

And I think even arguably on the

tails of that if God were to put an

117

end to all evil now and not destroy

us, I think it would empty the

118

churches and I think it would empty,

I think it would do the opposite

119

of what maybe we think it would do.

120

I think it would cause

people to reject him.

121

En mass more so than

they do even right now.

122

I think one of the reasons why we

crave God and why we crave eternity

123

is because we know what evil is.

124

We don't know good without or we don't

know evil without good and so when we

125

experience evil, it within those that

are saved and redeemed causes us to

126

long to be with him, to long to be with

Christ more and to desire that more.

127

If there was never any suffering,

never any pain, never any sickness,

128

never any disease, we would have

really no desire to leave where

129

we are now to go and be with him.

130

We would have no desire to.

131

Depart the fallen for the unfall

to the redeem, the fix, the new.

132

And so I think there's a measure to which

God permits even the suffering that we

133

go through to cultivate a deeper hunger

for our being with him in the long term.

134

Yeah.

135

And part of this is.

136

Again, when we start talking about

this, we start in our minds building up

137

cases for, okay what would be sufficient

good to warrant the necessary evil?

138

And we don't know.

139

That's the short answer.

140

If something atrocious were to happen

to you, you would not do yourself well.

141

To say, well, what good

is God gonna do from this?

142

Mm-hmm.

143

It's better to say God will do good,

and I don't know what that's gonna look

144

like that that might be for my life,

that might be for someone else's life.

145

That might be for my great,

great, great grandkid's life.

146

I don't know.

147

Yeah.

148

I just know that God has promised that he

will do good and it will bring him glory.

149

That's true for all evil, period.

150

Yeah.

151

Now good again, has to be defined when we

start talking about good for the believer,

152

good for those who are outside of Christ,

that requires a slightly different

153

argument, but I still say that God has a.

154

A morally sufficient reason

to allow evil to exist.

155

Yeah.

156

You have to believe that.

157

Otherwise you believe God's bad.

158

Yeah.

159

And if he can control the

end from the beginning, that

160

means he's just slacking off.

161

He's not paying attention.

162

So we would necessarily

believe God controls all human

163

activity, including evil.

164

That God permits evil because he has a

sufficient worthy and good cause to let

165

it persist because he can guarantee, just

like Joseph says at the end of Genesis

166

chapter 50, what people mean for evil.

167

God will intend for good.

168

He can take one act and have two ends in

view, the human end and the divine end.

169

And guess what?

170

The divine end is always better.

171

Yeah, that's a great question.

172

It is.

173

There's another one that's

related but separate.

174

Okay.

175

And maybe I'll, you know what,

I'll tell you what, I'll ask this

176

when we get to Matthew today.

177

Okay.

178

So let, when we get there, remind me.

179

Cool.

180

Alright.

181

Leviticus seven, eight, and nine.

182

As we get into Leviticus seven, we're

gonna read more about, okay, we're

183

talking about guild offerings priest

portions of things, what they're

184

allowed to eat, what they, how they

were to engage with the worshipers.

185

Sometimes there's.

186

Peace offerings, Thanksgiving offerings.

187

One of the takeaways from

here is that, that struck me

188

this time reading it is just.

189

We should be a thankful people.

190

God ordained an entire category of

offerings to be brought to him just to

191

experience, just to, for the worshiper

to express their gratitude to the Lord.

192

That's something that's noteworthy for us.

193

I mean, we just talked about what's

good and looking outside and seeing the

194

sunshine or having a, just a good day.

195

Sometimes at the end of the

day, you just look back on it.

196

You're like, Lord, this

was a really good day.

197

Are we recognizing what we should be?

198

Are we worshiping him by

giving him gratitude and.

199

Our, giving him our gratitude

in offering him thanks.

200

This was a category of offerings

that he desired from his people.

201

I want you to come and express

your Thanksgiving to me by bringing

202

me an offering and a sacrifice.

203

We should be doing that as well.

204

Yeah.

205

You'll notice that some of the

ways that God has them approach

206

him, there's, there's a guilt

offering that you're reading about

207

in the first part of chapter seven.

208

Then you're reading about.

209

Peace offering.

210

There's some shades of nuance and

distinctions here, but I think it's

211

helpful just for us to step back as

Christians and say, man there's a lot

212

of reasons God gave them to come to him.

213

Yeah.

214

Guilt offering number one.

215

You're always gonna be guilty of some sin.

216

Yeah.

217

You're probably guilty right now of

something that you're not even aware of.

218

See yesterday's podcast.

219

You should always be coming to

the Lord and offering, at the

220

very minimum the sacrifice of your

time, your energy, your praise.

221

That's what we read about

in the New Testament.

222

No, we should be the kind of people

that are constantly going to God.

223

All of these obstacles or all of these

insertions that God puts into their

224

life is meant to draw them to himself.

225

God is jealous for the relationship

of his people to the point where

226

he's saying, look, basically,

anytime you wanna slaughter an

227

animal, you gotta come to me anytime.

228

You wanna take to, you know, butcher

an animal to render the meat.

229

By the way, give me the

fat, but you can come to me.

230

God is.

231

Highly interested in making himself

the center of their life experience

232

and not just on the periphery to

the point where the temple itself

233

sat in the middle of the people.

234

It was not on the edges.

235

It was not somewhere where

people couldn't touch him.

236

He was in the center.

237

And I think that's meant to communicate

to us how much God desires to not just be

238

a part of our lives in appendage, but to

be the very center and lifeblood of it.

239

Yeah, chapter eight, we get

the setting apart of the

240

consecration of Aaron and his sons.

241

And so this is an important scene

here because before Aaron and his

242

sons can operate as the priest

that God was ordaining them to

243

be, they needed to be set apart.

244

They needed to be made wholly consecrated.

245

We talked about the end of chapter eight,

I believe last year, the seven days of

246

ordination where they couldn't leave the

tabernacle for seven days consecutively

247

while all this was taking place.

248

But all this tells us

that this is intentional.

249

This was not something that was.

250

That was just accidental

or just happenstance?

251

There was a lot of thought that

went into making sure that these

252

men were prepared for the work

that God was calling them to do.

253

In the New Testament, we pick

up on the role of the pastor.

254

And there's not a one for one correlation

between the priest and the pastor, but

255

there's still the level of intentionality

that we should have that the New

256

Testament tells us to be careful, lest

we lay hands on someone too Hastily.

257

The New Testament gives us a

list of qualifications for the

258

man that's to fulfill the role

of the office of a pastor.

259

I guess a question though based on

this pastor Rod, have you heard the

260

phrase, God doesn't call the equipped,

but he equips the called Yes, I have.

261

Do you agree with that sentiment

or hook, line and sinker or, my,

262

my point being maybe he's taking

Aaron, he's consecrating Aaron.

263

Could he have taken anybody

and consecrated anybody?

264

Is is.

265

Or is this, I mean, he didn't, he chose

Aaron in his sovereignty, but was there

266

was something and even today is when

we look at what God does with pastors

267

and other people, is he just taking

anybody and he's gonna equip that person?

268

Or is he taking somebody that has

the natural gifts and abilities

269

and saying, yeah, well this

person makes sense in this role.

270

I think it's hard to draw a straight

line on that and say it's always gonna

271

be this and always gonna be that.

272

Sure.

273

It's in part because God is God

and he does what he does and I.

274

I don't know.

275

I do think there is something

to the fact that God chose

276

what is weak to shame the wise.

277

Yeah.

278

And that would include a lot of pastors.

279

Not to say that we're weak necessarily,

although I think in a lot of ways we are.

280

Yeah.

281

We're aware of our weakness.

282

He picks people that Moses

was a Sta a stammering.

283

Stuttering man.

284

Right.

285

Who didn't wanna lead.

286

He said some send somebody else.

287

Yeah.

288

Which gives me the impression that maybe

Moses wasn't initially good at it, but

289

he became good at it by the grace of God.

290

And he was the most meek man to

walk the planet, that kind of thing.

291

So.

292

I think there's truth in it, but like all

truth statements, I mean, they could be

293

endlessly qualified in different ways.

294

I think generally speaking, I'd say.

295

Okay.

296

Yeah, I think I agree with that.

297

Would you say the same?

298

Yeah, I think so.

299

I, the Apostle Paul, even we think of

Paul as this great powerful figure and yet

300

in Corinthians he says, man, I was with

you in weakness and fear and trembling.

301

Right?

302

And there's even some thought that

he wasn't the best public order,

303

that he was better at kind of behind

the scenes and writing the letters

304

in, in the one-on-one situation.

305

So, yeah, you're right.

306

I think there is something about the

weakness that God delights to be glorified

307

through equipping those that you would

look at and go, really, that guy, and I

308

think that's true in my life for sure.

309

Well, after they're consecrated,

they're going to inaugurate the

310

whole sacrificial system here.

311

The first sacrifices are offered,

which I wonder if the knees

312

were weak and the hands are

trembling at this point with them.

313

Verse seven, mom, spaghetti.

314

Yeah.

315

Moses.

316

Nice.

317

Moses said to Aaron, draw near to the

altar and offer your sin offering and

318

the burnt offering, and make atonement

for yourself and for the people.

319

And bring the offering of the

people and make atonement for them.

320

As the Lord commanded you gotta

just think Aaron and his sons

321

are looking at each other going,

well, it's been a good run.

322

It's been a good run.

323

Hopefully we do this right and.

324

What's cool is they do, and it's

not as though they, they have

325

to wonder, did we do it right?

326

Because God shows up in a big way to

give his acceptance of this and to

327

show his acceptance of this before the

people so that the people would know.

328

It's kinda like the New Testament when

we talk about some of the miracles.

329

Validating the message and the messenger,

I think is the same thing here.

330

God is gonna show up in a powerful

way with this display of glory

331

here, so that the people understand,

okay, we need to do this.

332

We need to obey this.

333

God is the one that's behind this.

334

Yeah.

335

I love the fact that.

336

Well, this is a verse that we

get in Hebrew chapter 12, that

337

the God is a consuming fire.

338

This is meant to evoke something

about the purity of God.

339

This is something that

showcases his holiness.

340

He's not like us, as in fact, if he were

to draw near to us, he would consume us

341

because he's holy, hence the sacrifices.

342

And so at the bottom of chapter nine,

what you're meant to see is something

343

that helps you recognize and feel.

344

This is why we fear God.

345

It's not that God is coming

down to just to hammer us on

346

the head, but that he is holy.

347

He is distinct.

348

He is set apart.

349

He is perfectly pure and righteous.

350

And this is actually his approval.

351

This is not him being upset.

352

This is him showing approval of

the sacrifices that were offered,

353

and even that is still a bit.

354

Fear inducing and a healthy fear.

355

I trust it's not a servile fear.

356

It's not a fear of like, I'm hiding in the

closet because it's intruders in my home.

357

This is a fear of a holy,

a inspiring kind of God.

358

Alright, let's get over

to the New Testament.

359

Matthew Chapter 25.

360

We're gonna be in 31 through 46.

361

Did you wanna ask your.

362

Follow up question I did because

I think it does on the front end.

363

It does play a role in the way that you

interpret Matthew, even some of the things

364

that we're gonna talk about right now.

365

Yeah.

366

Okay.

367

So, the question is, um, I'm gonna

try to simplify it 'cause this is

368

actually like three paragraphs.

369

I don't wanna read three paragraphs.

370

Should anything, here's a

good way to summarize it.

371

Should anything.

372

Ever be taken at face value?

373

Absolutely.

374

From the words of Jesus in particular,

Jesus says, don't call someone rabbi.

375

And yet we call people

a teacher all the time.

376

Right.

377

And so the clarifying question is,

should everything always be confirmed

378

by some other text in the scripture?

379

Or should is are we free to take

anything at face value when we read it?

380

Yeah.

381

Yeah.

382

I think.

383

W we're talking about

interpreting within context here.

384

Yeah.

385

In in a lot of ways.

386

And I think we always have

to interpret within context.

387

Does that rule out us ever

finding something that we're

388

gonna take at face value?

389

No.

390

I would say no.

391

Absolutely not.

392

I think there are commands that are

given in scripture that we can just.

393

Take the command and say, yes, this is

the command and this is what we should do.

394

And we're gonna take this at face value.

395

For example, when Paul says in First

Thessalonians chapter four, this is

396

the will of God, your sanctification,

that you abstain from sexual immorality

397

that we can take at face value and

say, okay, that's what Paul meant.

398

It meant it then to that audience.

399

It means it now to our audience as well.

400

But when we're dealing still there,

it's important to say, okay, but to get

401

there we have to look at the context.

402

We have to say, are there context clues

that give us any understanding that

403

there could be something else that's

being intended here by what he's saying.

404

And the situation back with

Jesus, and don't call me Rabbi.

405

I think we were pointing to

it at that point as well.

406

Man, when you look at the context

there, he's confronting the Pharisees

407

pride and their desire to be recognized

and their desire to have the best

408

seats and so forth and so on.

409

And this is an overflow of that pride.

410

And so thereby we can look at that and

contextually understand, man there's

411

something more going on here than Jesus

just simply being concerned with a title.

412

And that's where we can go further on.

413

New Testament say, well, the

apostles call themselves apostles

414

or elders or so forth and so on.

415

So there has to be more to it as well.

416

And I think when we look at the context,

we can draw the connection and say, okay,

417

Jesus is condemning the pridefulness.

418

And man if in my heart my, it's about

pride that I say, I want you to call me

419

Pastor PJ because I like being a pastor

and I like the pride that comes with that.

420

Amen.

421

It's a problem.

422

It Right.

423

Just like it was back

then for the Pharisees.

424

But the problem is not in the title,

the problem is in the heart behind

425

the one who is being, is requesting

the title, if I can put it that way.

426

So his initial response to

that was there's That's true.

427

Yes.

428

But it doesn't nullify the command.

429

If anything it explains why it's there.

430

Right.

431

It doesn't change the

facts that it is there.

432

And so his concern then is, well, maybe.

433

Maybe what appears to be

absolute isn't absolute.

434

And my short answer in email

was, well, this is the art

435

and science of hermeneutics.

436

Yeah.

437

Biblical hermeneutics is,

is both, it is scientific.

438

There is a, these rules to follow,

but there's also an art to doing

439

it well where you're trying to put

pieces together and the most faithful

440

and God honoring way possible.

441

And part of what we do here,

as you just mentioned, is that

442

you're gonna do best, okay here's

a principle that you should know.

443

It's called the analogy of scripture.

444

This principle means that scripture

is the best interpreter of scripture.

445

Yep.

446

You find scriptures that help put

the pieces together to help you

447

make sense of what's being said.

448

And so we have the privilege and

the riches of having Genesis to

449

Revelation where we can cross reference

and start making some inferences

450

about what scripture's intending to

communicate based on what we see.

451

Mm-hmm.

452

So in Jesus' day when he said Matthew

23 live in front of his studio

453

audience, did they think he meant that?

454

I have to guess.

455

No.

456

Because it's not very far after where

they start using terms like apostle.

457

Right.

458

I have to think they didn't

understand it that way.

459

Right.

460

So I might understand it that way,

but that's because I'm not there.

461

I don't understand the context.

462

There's elements of this that are

foreign to me because I'm reading

463

it in 2026 and I have a lot less

I have less senses in the game.

464

I don't know the customs

as, uh, what's his name?

465

The guy who wrote the book about, uh.

466

This, this, the modern self.

467

Carl Truman, he says, and I'm not

sure if he's quoting somebody else,

468

the past is a foreign country.

469

Which means you have to do a lot

of legwork to make sure that you're

470

understanding the past appropriately.

471

Yeah.

472

Yeah.

473

And in a similar sense, when we

read our Bibles, there's a lot,

474

there's 2000 years of history here.

475

Yep.

476

We have to do the legwork of saying,

okay, what's being said here?

477

What does it mean?

478

And why do I think that?

479

I don't wanna just say, well, what

does it say to me as we've said

480

before, what does it mean to me?

481

I have to say, what did it mean to them?

482

Right.

483

What's the, what literary devices are

being employed here and know Jesus uses

484

a lot of the same literary devices.

485

He uses hyperbole.

486

Right.

487

Cut off your right hand.

488

Right.

489

Gouge out your right eye.

490

Yeah, I was thinking about that too.

491

You're not doing that.

492

I mean, I haven't done that.

493

Right.

494

None of us are doing that.

495

Actually, people did do it though.

496

They read the Bible wrong.

497

We don't do that because Jesus is

using hyperbole to make a point.

498

All that to say, great question, but

this is the, this is why scripture

499

requires your lifelong study and mastery.

500

It's gonna take time to say,

okay, I have confidence that

501

I'm reading this the right way.

502

Yeah.

503

Any books that you might recommend

if somebody wanted to gain some more

504

of those principles of the analogy

of scripture, things like that.

505

I'm going through one of my boys

right now called Hall, how to read

506

Scripture for all that it's worth.

507

Okay.

508

It's in the fourth edition.

509

And that one was really helpful.

510

Yep.

511

How to, I think that's what it is.

512

Is that, am I getting the title right?

513

How to read scripture?

514

Oh, it sounds like, yeah.

515

Yeah, that sounds familiar.

516

For all that it's worth it's, bye.

517

I am pulling it up right now.

518

Gordon fee.

519

I was thinking that and now

I'm sure of that Gordon Fee.

520

It's a short treatise

on reading the Bible.

521

Well, yeah, and it's accessible.

522

I don't think you're gonna

struggle with that one.

523

Another one I'm currently

working my way through.

524

I haven't finished it yet, but

I have enjoyed it, even though

525

I don't always agree with it.

526

Lemme just say that is misreading

scripture with western eyes,

527

removing cultural blinders to

better understand the Bible.

528

That one's also been fun.

529

It's challenged me in some ways.

530

Again, I don't agree with everything

I'm reading there, but I've enjoyed it.

531

For the very fact that it's causing me

to think about the things that I take

532

for granted when I approach to scripture.

533

So those are two books

that I would recommend.

534

Do you have any that you would add?

535

I would add Basic Bible Interpretation

by Roy Zuck is another one.

536

Oh yeah.

537

Yeah.

538

That's a bigger one though.

539

It's a little bit not.

540

That's a big one.

541

Not Dauntingly though.

542

I was ed by I in my, my bookshelf.

543

I was daunted.

544

Well, you, you're daunted by.

545

Books that I'm, I guess I'm not

daunted No, well, you're not daunted

546

by books that I'm daunted by.

547

Everybody's daunted

anything over 200 pages.

548

Yeah.

549

So that one would, yeah.

550

Might be a little bit more academic,

but I found that one helpful.

551

I remember going through

it in seminary as well.

552

So, yeah.

553

Well, let's get to this reading

that we have with us in Matthew 25.

554

I think it's fascinating because the

default might be to read this and think,

555

okay, this is the end, this is everything

is done and you're gonna go to Heaven and

556

you're gonna go to hell friend the end.

557

But I, I, it's the doors, bro.

558

Thanks, man.

559

I think we have to look at this and

say, this can't be the great white

560

judgment, the great white throne,

because of what's taking place here.

561

What's taking place here is he's

dividing people that are going to end

562

up in eternity and people that are

going to end up in hell well, I should

563

say in eternal life, and those that are

gonna end up in eternal damnation and.

564

He's doing this in chapter

25 at the Great White Throne.

565

There are no believers.

566

So the final, final judgment that we

read about there, I believe Revelation

567

19 there's no believers present, so

I don't think that's what this is.

568

And so some commentators will

suggest and I'm contextually.

569

Speaking of context here because of what

he's been dealing with here, that this may

570

be the return right before the millennial

kingdom, that this is separating those

571

that are going to enter in the millennial

kingdom from those that aren't gonna

572

enter in the, to the millennial kingdom.

573

And that that's why there's

the two groups that are present

574

here in the rest of Matthew 25.

575

I mean, I think that makes sense.

576

Rather than this being believer,

just a broad category believer,

577

unbeliever division, do you

have any thoughts on that?

578

Amen.

579

That's a good thought.

580

What's also fascinating in this is what

defines this is he says, you're gonna

581

enter in because when I was in need

you came to help my help basically.

582

And to those that are going to

enter into judgment, he's gonna

583

say, you're gonna go to judgment.

584

Because when I was in

need, you ignored me.

585

And that's fascinating.

586

And I wrote down kind of next to this

in my Bible when Jesus said to Paul,

587

Paul, why are you persecuting me?

588

In that connection, that

identification with his people there.

589

And I think we see Jesus here

condemning and then giving a

590

blessing to those based on how they

treated those that were in need.

591

And it's almost as though he's

identifying with his people again,

592

the way that he does with Paul when

he says, why are you persecuting me?

593

This is so interesting because you

might at the quick read say, oh man,

594

I guess I better get to doing some

good works here because this is what.

595

Makes a Christian, and I would

say caution, because this

596

is what a Christian does.

597

This is not what makes

you become a Christian.

598

This is how Christians act, right?

599

There's compassion, there's care and

notice the connection to his body.

600

There is a genuine connection.

601

He says as you did it to one of the least

of these my brothers, you did it to me.

602

Now a Christian.

603

Acts for those people because

he cares she cares about them.

604

She has compassion.

605

She does that.

606

And yet the Lord says, actually that,

that was me, that you did that too.

607

I love that.

608

And I appreciate that because it

reframes the way that we see this.

609

This is not, Hey, you better get to

work, do this, or You're not a Christian.

610

Yeah.

611

This is, no, they care.

612

They're moved with compassion for

these people who are downcast, who are

613

oppressed, who are in prison perhaps.

614

And it's such a big deal

and it's so evident.

615

It's so characteristic of his people

that he can say again in verse 46.

616

This is another scary passage for

those who don't do this, those

617

who don't have compassion and love

for their brothers and sisters.

618

He says, these will go away

into eternal punishment, but

619

the righteous into eternal life.

620

And you'll see the parallel there.

621

You probably heard it in my voice.

622

Eternal punishment or eternal life.

623

We believe that there's.

624

And this has been a relevant

conversation lately.

625

Maybe you wanna touch briefly on

this eternal conscious torment is the

626

traditional view, or at least it's

called, that it's afforded that title.

627

And I think that's fair.

628

The traditional view is that people

either spend eternity with God in heaven

629

and purity and in joy and gladness,

or there is eternal conscious torment.

630

All three of those words are

vastly important to how we

631

understand the next life.

632

Can you briefly just talk about that,

remind us of what this conversation's

633

about and why it's important?

634

Yeah, the, and I think this is a

verse that I think is a key verse

635

in support of ECT, eternal conscious

torment because of the line of

636

eternal punishment or eternal life.

637

Those that argue against it sometimes are

called conditionalists or annihilationists

638

depending on the camp that you're with.

639

And they will argue that there is

a, an end to one suffering in hell.

640

They're not arguing that hell doesn't

exist and that's a misrepresentation,

641

but they're arguing that at some

point the soul has satisfied the

642

wrath of God against their sin,

and they will then be annihilated,

643

they'll be taken out of existence.

644

And in some more recently have argued

that even that ceasing to exist is in

645

and of itself a form of hell, which

I can't get there because if you

646

lose consciousness, I don't think.

647

And that's why conscious

torment is part of this.

648

I don't think losing consciousness

is punishment for sin.

649

And so our position, our view

is that sin is the wrath of God

650

will never be satisfied on our

sin if we've rejected Christ.

651

And the argument that, well then how

can God's justice ever be satisfied?

652

I don't think we see in scripture

where it's ever promised

653

that it will be satisfied.

654

I think in hell the justice of

God is continually being satisfied

655

as his wrath is poured out.

656

In that Romans chapter nine

is working towards ultimately

657

a display of his glory, so.

658

The eternal conscious torment, the

fact that hell is unending just as

659

eternal life is unending, I think

is the argument that fits the tenor

660

of scripture most faithfully there.

661

And yeah, that's under attack

today, and yet I think the

662

scripture stands for itself.

663

One of the things that I found helpful

in thinking through these things, I

664

think there's there's a lot of people

that you might trust and respect who

665

host people on their podcasts and their

YouTube forums and things like that

666

where they can sound really good and

they can make a good case for why they

667

think that the conditional immortality

is, in fact, the response to this verse

668

is, well, it is eternal punishment.

669

It's eternal and it's a fact, it's

a punishment that endures forever.

670

The question is, what kind of

punishment is it, to your point?

671

So, I think there's people out

there that can give you some

672

one-liners and some zingers.

673

Here's something for you

to think about though, if.

674

We are, if you're wrong, about conditional

immortality and annihilationism

675

and you're telling people, look,

hey, God's gonna destroy you.

676

You know, if you don't accept Christ,

if you don't repent and trust him

677

you're just not gonna have forever.

678

And maybe they say, well, okay, I

can deal with that to not exist.

679

I'm okay with that.

680

I know for some people

that's not a, that's not fun.

681

It's not a good idea, but for a lot of

people they would say, well, that's fine.

682

That's, it's essentially

what atheism teaches.

683

When you die, there's nothing.

684

And if that's the end game for me

after all the life that I've lived,

685

and perhaps I suffer after a little

bit and then I get annihilated or

686

I just die at the end of my life.

687

Okay, I can tolerate that.

688

Let's suppose that.

689

You teach that, and then when

someone dies, it's actually

690

eternal conscious orant.

691

Mm-hmm.

692

Mm-hmm.

693

They've been misled now and they've

downplayed the consequence to

694

the degree that they've wagered

their soul on, on the lie.

695

You know, wouldn't that sound

just like the devil to do that?

696

Like, Hey, don't sweat it.

697

Mm-hmm.

698

Just trust that you'll perish.

699

You'll be annihilated.

700

The counter that they'll say is, well,

now you're making God sound like an ogre.

701

And he's mean and cruel,

and he's all these things.

702

Or he, or maybe you're mischaracterizing.

703

God and I guess I understand

that that's a possibility.

704

But I think it's a better bet if

we're talking about bets here.

705

And I know we're not doing that,

but it's a, it's better to say,

706

I'm gonna, I'm gonna lean on what

church history has largely affirmed.

707

Mm-hmm.

708

There are some camps, there are some

people, some smart people that will

709

say, well, I don't believe that.

710

Okay.

711

All right.

712

You don't have to.

713

But the bulk of church

history is on this side.

714

Yep.

715

And so.

716

Even if you personally struggle with

this, I think it's helpful for you to

717

know that a lot of Christians in your

heritage, those who make up church

718

history, have sided with this as

uncomfortable and as painful it is.

719

Now, just think about that.

720

People don't gravitate toward this

and say, I love this doctrine.

721

This is my favorite doctrine.

722

I love eternal God.

723

No one says that, right?

724

We do it because we think

scripture teaches it.

725

Right?

726

And if the best and brightest minds

about church's history have landed

727

here I think it's safe to say

that's probably a good place to be.

728

That's a safe place to start and to

camp if you have any doubts about that.

729

I would agree, man.

730

I can't amen that more.

731

Yeah.

732

Amen.

733

Hey, let's pray and they'll

be done with this episode.

734

God, thanks for your word and for

the shoulders of the giants, of those

735

in church history that have gone

before us, that we stand upon as we

736

seek to interpret it and understand

it as best as we possibly can.

737

And we thank you for its

clarity in so many ways.

738

Pray that you'd help

us to be good students.

739

Good Bereans of your word, that

we wouldn't just let our eyes.

740

Pass over the page and

think, okay, we're done.

741

And move on.

742

But help us to internalize these

things, to wrestle with these things

743

and to draw the right conclusions.

744

Even help us, Lord, with the, as

we were talking about, the art of

745

interpretation and what that looks like.

746

And so I pray that we would do this

well because we want to know you better.

747

We pray this in Jesus' name.

748

Amen.

749

Keep bringing those Bibles to you, y'all,

and tune in again tomorrow for another

750

edition of the Daily Bible Podcast.

751

See you then.

752

Bye.

753

Edward: Thank you for listening to another

episode of the Daily Bible Podcast.

754

We’re grateful you chose to

spend time with us today.

755

This podcast is a ministry of

Compass Bible Church in North Texas.

756

You can learn more about our

church at compassntx.org.

757

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we’d appreciate it if you’d consider

758

leaving a review, rating the show,

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759

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760

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