Shownotes
Season 7 Episode 170
In this episode, Wendy Green engages in a deep and meaningful conversation with Dr. Janet Steinkamp about the challenges of estranged relationships with adult children.
Wendy and Janet both share there personal experiences, emphasizing the importance of self-reflection, adapting communication styles, and nurturing trust and grace in rebuilding relationships. The discussion touches upon the emotional complexities, the stages of grief, and the impact of family dynamics on estrangement.
Guest bio
Dr. Janet Steinkamp is an educator, teacher-trainer, communication expert, estrangement consultant, researcher and mom.
In 2019, Dr. Steinkamp began her own journey through a family estrangement when her adult daughter decided to cut ties. Her family lost contact with her daughter for nearly two years. It took months of courageous self-reflection, sometimes painful self-accountability, determination and grace to understand how her communication and expectations contributed to her daughter’s estrangement. When asked how she got started on her journey of growth and transformation, she quickly points out that the first step was to recognize the only person she could change was herself.
Episode Overview
The discussion focuses on the challenges of understanding and navigating estrangement, as well as the importance of self-improvement and adapting to different communication styles.
Janet introduces the DISC assessment tool as a means of understanding and improving parent-child communication, emphasizing the significance of self-reflection and investing in self-discovery.
The impact of grief on communication and the vulnerability it creates, as well as the stages of grief and their influence on parents' behavior, are explored.
The episode touches on family dynamics, research findings on estrangement, and so much more, creating a multifaceted exploration of the topic.
Takeaways
- Self-reflection and investing in self-discovery are pivotal to rebuilding estranged relationships
- Understanding different communication styles, such as those identified by the DISC assessment tool, can help improve parent-child communication.
- Embracing change, adapting to different communication styles, and showing grace and trust are paramount in rebuilding and maintaining relationships.
Links
Visit whenouradultchildrenwalkaway.com for resources and support services offered by Janet Steinkamp.
Email Dr. Steinkamp at janet@jesteinkamp.com
Become a Boomer Believer to talk monthly with one of our amazing guests.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Spotify Ad Analytics - https://www.spotify.com/us/legal/ad-analytics-privacy-policy/
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcripts
Hello, and welcome to Hey Boomer. My name is Wendy Greene, and I am your host for Hey Boomer. I love that new music, so soothing. So I hope you guys like it. Anyway at Hey Boomer we are changing the conversation about getting older. We are redefining it as not declining, but seeing it as a time for Exploration and self expression and learning. And with that in mind, Get ready to embark with me on an incredible journey by becoming a Boomer believer. So what is in it for you to be a Boomer believer? Well, first of all, you're gonna get to join me once a month To talk to one of my podcast guests and ask them all the questions that you wanted to ask and you were sitting there waiting for me to ask, and oops, Maybe I didn't get to them.
Wendy Green [:So you can join with a guest once a month. You can also join our Boomer Banter once a month where we get together as a Community, and we talk about all kinds of interesting and inspiring things. We do exercises, group work, And we learn and grow and build a sense of community and support in that. You're also going to get to sport a new Hey Boomer designer Baseball cap, which is also fun. You'll get a shout out on the podcast that you have become a member of the Boomer Believer Tribe, And you will also get a shout out on your birthday because you are worth celebrating. So mark your calendars. The inaugural Boomer Believer event is going to be on January 30th at 6:30 EST, And we will feature a captivating conversation with Dean King, the author of The Feud, The real story of the Hatfields and McCoys. So that should be fun and interesting.
Wendy Green [:Come with your questions. Join us as a Boomer believer. It's just $25 a month for all of that, and you can join by going to buy me a coffee.com/heyboomer0413. Sign up now. It's gonna be great. Okay. We're talking today, Like we've been doing this week, this month, we've been talking about family dynamics and today we're talking about estrangement. Recent research Has shown that about 27% of people in the United States are estranged from at least 1 family member.
Wendy Green [:27% translates to about 67,000,000 people in the United States. That's a staggering number, And it may be a low number. We'll see. I don't know. In the episode with doctor Joshua Coleman, He shared his story of being estranged from his adult daughter. So it happens in all types of families, Well educated, moderately educated, high income, low income, all races, it happens. And people rarely talk about estrangement because there's a sense of shame and guilt and confusion, and I don't know why this is happening to me, and what did I do, and all of that, so people don't wanna talk about it. But in today's episode, Both doctor Janet Steinkamp and myself will share a little bit about our personal stories.
Wendy Green [:So my story completely caught me off guard. My son and I I have always been very close, and I had really no idea that there were Issues that he was struggling with and hadn't talked to me about. So I was completely surprised Over Thanksgiving, when my son and I had a huge falling out, and he brought up the threat That if I did not change my ways, I would not be invited to his house. Like, seriously. First of all, who does that to their parent? And and second of all, like, really? You're you're saying that to me? Oh my god. I'm your mom. I was shocked, And I didn't understand, and I couldn't really talk to him because he was so angry at that point that it was better for me to just leave And let everything calm down. And over time, it did seem to calm down.
Wendy Green [:We we talked on the phone a few times, never really brought up What had happened just having nice conversations. And then, about a week ago, I went back up to his house to celebrate my granddaughter's sweet 16 birthday, and I thought we had a great time. We laughed and we ate and the whole family was involved and I didn't feel any tension at all. And I came home like, Yes. That was great. Things really went well until about 2 days later, I got a text from him that said I had done something wrong again. It didn't it didn't he didn't even say what it was. It just said, I'm warning you, mom.
Wendy Green [:I was like, oh my god. What did I do? Of course, it upset me. My stomach was upset. I was feeling all anxious. I was, like, beyond Confused, and fortunately this time we were able to have a more calm conversation about what he was trying to get me to understand, and I am grateful for that. It Was not comfortable. It was not something that I necessarily even agreed with, but I understood his point of view. And and so I am really trying hard to make some of the changes that he wants me to make so that He feels comfortable that I am not imposing my my opinions or whatever on his family.
Wendy Green [:And I hope that we never get to the point of a complete estrangement, but it is Feeling like walking on eggshells a little bit right now. So with that story and with Janet Here. Hello. Mhmm. Let me do a quick introduction of you, Janet, and then let's dive in because We got stuff to talk about.
Janet Steinkamp [:Perfect. Perfect.
Wendy Green [:So, as I said, you know, it's about 27 of the people in the US is what the findings show. Could be more. But I'm hopeful that what we learned from doctor Steinkamp Today will be helpful to all of us, whether you're experience experiencing estrangement now, or maybe you might in the future, Or you know someone who is. But doctor Steinkamp is an educator, a teacher trainer, communication expert, Estrangement consultant, a researcher, and a mom. In conjunction with several professional roles, She spent her career of 25 plus years working with people to develop effective individual and group communication skills And establish healthy relationships. In 2019, doctor Steinkamp began her own journey through a Family estrangement when her adult daughter decided to cut ties. Her family lost contact with her daughter for nearly 2 years. It took months of courageous self reflection, sometimes painful self accountability, Determination and grace to understand how her communication and expectations contributed to her daughter's estrangement.
Wendy Green [:When asked how she got started on her journey of growth and transformation, she quickly points out that the first step was to recognize that the only person she could change was herself. To assist as you navigate your estrangement circumstances, Doctor Steinkamp created the When Our Adult Children Walk Away website, and I'm gonna share that link later, Where people, particularly parents, can find resources and support services. Oh, boy. Alright. So do you wanna start by giving us a little background on your story?
Janet Steinkamp [:Sure. I'd I'd be glad to share. 1st, I want to say thank you for having me. This is such an important topic for so many people, And really, it's difficult to find reliable resources, so I appreciate this. Yes. So my experience with estrangement did begin in about 2019. If my daughter Brianna were here, she would say it started for her in her early twenties. So she's 31 now.
Janet Steinkamp [:So that means her estrangement journey really began over 10 years ago. Our experiences are very different in estrangement between parents and adult children. So it really, There's so many complicating factors. The fact is I was a helicopter mom. I was way deep engaged in her life. Didn't really give her time or room to make mistakes or have opinions. In fact, I didn't even give her space to clean her room. You know, I just kind of took over everything.
Janet Steinkamp [:And what I've learned since then in her own therapy is that she's been diagnosed as attention deficit. So I was so involved, I didn't even recognize the symptoms. I didn't give her time. I didn't give her space. So As she grew up and started to try to disengage and put me in my new parent role, I really fought that. I really fought it. She chose a partner who, pretty obvious to us as her parents, was not a good match, Very different life trajectory, different values, and, he really didn't want us in her life. And so If you, listen to Josh Coleman and look at the Cult of One, that was really our experience.
Janet Steinkamp [:But it would be easy for me to say that was the problem. But, actually, the it was my parenting that opened us up to estrangement. Had she met him and we had a healthier relationship, I think she may have had, the grounding to be able to avoid some of the difficulties that she that she experienced. Who knows? I mean, I I can only, look at that and and make an educated guess. Doesn't mean she didn't make mistakes. She did. Her expectations were, I thought, kind of over the top. And if she were here, she would chuckle if she heard me say that.
Wendy Green [:Her expectations of you or the boys?
Janet Steinkamp [:Oh, of us, of life. You know, what she was entitled to. She was raised in a pretty Easy lifestyle. So she got accustomed to things, you know, being available to her easily. Mhmm. And now, you know, she's 31 and she's trying to rebuild her life, 10 years of that. So so here we are. She now lives with us with her twin, 6 year olds.
Janet Steinkamp [:And, it is still eggshells. It's not as Brittle. Things aren't the cracks aren't quite as loud. And we've created some trust. I call it a social bank account where we have some basic bus, trust deposits made. So when we do make mistakes, we can forgive each other, and It's not as risky. We don't. We're not on that edge of estrangement, the final, complete estrangement.
Wendy Green [:So you said she it started for you in 2019. It had been going on for her for 10 years. Did you have any awareness that She was struggling with this?
Janet Steinkamp [:Oh, sure. Oh, you can. When I look back, sure. She was very vocal. She wrote us letters. She she would say to me I mean, I can chuckle now. It wasn't it's not funny. I she would say to me, mom, not everything is about you, Starting when she was about 17.
Janet Steinkamp [:Mom, not everything is about you. And I would laugh it off and say, well, really, in this instance, it is kind of about me. And that works when they're young. And to some extent it's true. As she matured and grew, I did not change my parenting style.
Wendy Green [:Mhmm.
Janet Steinkamp [:So she's 25 in saying that, and I'm still not hearing her. Mhmm. I'm still not listening. And, she gave us lots of chances. Yeah. She did.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. I think I think you know, I I hear this and I've said it myself. It's like I was a good parent. I don't understand. You know? How can you Push me away. I don't understand. Like, how do we even begin this journey of Trying to understand when we're feeling like we were a good parent. We're being misunderstood.
Wendy Green [:There's something messed up here.
Janet Steinkamp [:Right. You know, often we hear the word rejection from parents. I'm suddenly being rejected. My role is being usurped by someone else or, I'm kind of getting pushed to the back of the room and my voice doesn't matter as much anymore. And really, if you look at parenting, Our goal is to to raise independent adults. Mhmm. And there is a cost to us, and that means Our voice isn't as loud. And if we're lucky, we can find a way to at least still be heard and not, Not be alienated because we're not adjusting.
Janet Steinkamp [:I call it, partner parents. So instead of being The predominant decision maker or influence, we step back and become their partner in life. Yeah. That's tough. We That's tough. Yeah. Go ahead.
Wendy Green [:No. It is tough. It is tough because we have been so used to being The parent in charge. You know? And and I know that, you know, there are times that my mother, Who's 93? He gives me advice on I'm 70, and I'm like, I got this. You know? I've been doing I've been doing this a long time. But I think It kinda comes naturally, you know, and we it is a big change. So you have a tool that you think helps with this communication. Can you give me some more information on that?
Janet Steinkamp [:Sure. I use the The Wiley, it's a particular, developer, marketer, owner, the DISC.
Wendy Green [:So, DISC, d I s
Janet Steinkamp [:See. Exactly. It's an acronym. It's in the the letters really represent the 4 different communication styles that we identify, when we have someone take the DISC assessment, we get, some results from that That tell us your primary communication style. And then from there, we can really dig into it and look at what your strengths are, What your style is, how you might be perceived by someone else, and how you might take in information from other people So you can understand where the disconnects may be, where things align. And it's really very powerful. It's not the only tool. There are plenty of different assessments out there.
Janet Steinkamp [:It's the tool that I've chosen and I have found to be really, really helpful.
Wendy Green [:So can you tell me what the letters stand for?
Janet Steinkamp [:Sure. So the d is dominance. It's an unfair unfortunate word because it sounds pretty overpowering. I happen to be a d. I'm a strong d, and I can be pretty overpowering. So, that that's a fact. So d. I is influence.
Janet Steinkamp [:So the influencer tends to be more of the cheerleader, more kind of, Animated. They might be the head you know, the person with a great story when the meeting's getting started or at the Thanksgiving table. S is steadiness. The steady person really is focused on maintaining consistency. They're going to be quiet. They're going to speak more slowly. They're going to want time to absorb and really process information And be very, very invested in keeping the relationship alive. They don't like disruption.
Janet Steinkamp [:So you just as an example, if you take a D and you take someone who's got an S style, you can see where that there may be some disconnects there just right off the bat. Sure. Yeah. And then the C is conscientious. So the conscientious person in their communication style It's really, really focused on accuracy, data, answers to their questions. They wanna know why, when, Who, how, and it's very difficult for them to get past, and really listen to the other person until they have that information. So again, you can see if there was somebody with sort of, an I style who's more animated, life of the party, talking with somebody with a c style who really wants the information, you're gonna have a disconnect because 1 person's going really fast and and trying to be, heard and related to, and the other person is really wanting data. Now give me the facts.
Janet Steinkamp [:Give me the facts. What did I say? When did it happen? Why was that a problem? And really Those data points may not be important to that other person. So it's really helpful, and that's just the tip of the iceberg with the DISC. What we want to do is when we learn our own style and we learn more about the 4 different general styles, We can start understanding what our child's style might be and then looking at ways where we may be Overwhelming them or not, they're not feeling listened to because they want the data and we don't want, we don't want, we don't wanna talk about that. We wanna talk about our feelings. Yeah. So, it just really helps give context. None of it is bad.
Janet Steinkamp [:No. No style is more important or more valuable or better. We all have strengths and we also have Challenges in our style. So I could go on for the with this for hours. I love the disc. Yeah.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. Philip, who's listening, says he's a huge advocate of the DISC too. So Wonderful. Yeah. So, You know, we talked about at the very beginning that the only person you can change is yourself. So Your child your adult child comes to you and says, look. You need to stop doing x, y, and z, or I'm not gonna Let you into the house. I'm not gonna let you talk to my kids.
Wendy Green [:I'm not gonna let you whatever.
Janet Steinkamp [:That's right.
Wendy Green [:We're shocked. We're, you know, hurt. We're what how how do we start Even I mean, if if they won't even talk to us, let's say, how do we even start to know what it is that we need to change?
Janet Steinkamp [:Right. Right. So, I would say in my own experience, I started there. I don't understand what I've done wrong. If you would only listen to me, life would be so much easier for me. And as I really Sat down and had some frank conversations with myself. I don't think I was being quite transparent with myself. If if I really looked at it, there were some things I knew probably were pretty irritating and actually disrespectful.
Janet Steinkamp [:You know, I'm criticizing her partner to her. And it's not that I was wrong in what I in my opinion, It said it wasn't my place to say it. It wasn't my place to she wasn't asking for my opinion.
Wendy Green [:Oh, I know.
Janet Steinkamp [:And so it's the the translation of that is disrespect, and that wasn't my intention at all. My intention was try to save her. Right. And so the more I let myself sort of Get comfortable with those things. I realized there were things I wanted to change regardless if whether those were the things she would point at Because I didn't like them about myself. I didn't I didn't want that to be how I came across to her. Her her relationship wouldn't survive that. You know, her partner wasn't going to tolerate that.
Janet Steinkamp [:So I think there's a lot of, self reflection. Sounds so easy. It's not. It's one of the most difficult things. And especially with the d style, that does not come naturally to me. I don't really, Frankly, I gotta get my work done. And if other people don't like it, I still gotta get my do my work done. You know? I don't slow down for much.
Janet Steinkamp [:But I've learned that the s style is probably my greatest advocate and friend. Because if I watch someone with an s style And meter myself to them, to how they're interacting with people. I learn a lot. I learn a lot about How I'm not what I'm not hearing, what I'm not seeing. So again, I think that this can really help us with that. So on a practical point to your question, if I when I hear your story about your son, this might be a time if I can use you as an example. Sure. If you're okay with that.
Janet Steinkamp [:This might be a time to say to him, you know, I, I want to, I want to take a minute and learn more about my own communication style because I hear you. I hear it's not working for you. The last thing I want is to cause trouble. So I'm gonna take a minute and do a little bit of work. And, you know, it might make it might take me a few weeks. You know, you may not hear from me as often. I'm right here. I'm not mad.
Janet Steinkamp [:I'm not angry. It's just that I gotta work on myself for a few weeks, really get a hold of what's going on here. And then I do some self work. You know, I might start with, some books on tape. That's my own thing, I like to walk and listen. I hear things better if I'm in motion.
Wendy Green [:Podcasts.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yes. We call that a kinetic learner. You learn better if you can absorb things while you're moving. So take a few weeks. And my guess is that's going to earn you some trust with him. It's gonna earn you some credibility with him because you're listening, you're taking responsibility for yourself And and you're really gonna invest your time and energy in in discovering more about yourself. And then at the end, you take the disc in there somewhere, Get some a couple hours of interpretation of the results. There are lots of good podcasts about the DISC, Videos, and and then when you circle back, you you might be in a spot where you can process with him.
Janet Steinkamp [:Maybe he would take the disc, and he could have a conversation.
Wendy Green [:Maybe. Yeah. That could be helpful.
Janet Steinkamp [:Take the bull by the horns. Take the bull by your horns.
Wendy Green [:It's scary. It is scary
Janet Steinkamp [:to do.
Wendy Green [:Right? It's scary because I don't want him to get angry again and whatever. But, yeah, it's a good suggestion. On your on your website, when when adult children walk away, you have some really good Video recordings on there or audio recordings on there. And, one of them, I think you talk about, You know, that that we're gonna have to do these things, and you just said it again, but our children are gonna have to start developing a trust in us again. Right. So I guess I have 2 questions around this. First of all, I get it that it's my responsibility to make Some of the changes myself and to do some self reflection.
Janet Steinkamp [:Mhmm.
Wendy Green [:Part of that question is, do they have any responsibility in Making the change or giving us the opportunity to make the change. And and then, like you said, you know, the walking on eggshells, How do you do you ever get past that and feel like Yeah. You know, you're not gonna step in the hole and make a mistake again?
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. Those eggshells, they're brittle. They are brutal, and they're brittle, and they're loud. Well, there, there are a couple of things in what you've just asked. So the first is how to develop that trust. And yes, I would say they do have a ability to give us time and space to get on board, to get with the program, to make the changes they're asking us to make. Now They have a choice. They can say yes or no.
Janet Steinkamp [:The good news for us as parents is that the research demonstrates over and over again, Our adult children do not want to be estranged. They're they're not happy to be estranged. They may be relieved. The preference is to be connected. It's a natural part of our biology. Our, our fundamental Character drives to be connected to other people and to our families. So we've got that going for us. We are still more powerful than we understand.
Janet Steinkamp [:And, it's been my experience that when adult children Recognize that their parents are genuinely now it's, it has to be genuine.
Wendy Green [:Mhmm.
Janet Steinkamp [:Invested in, in starting to understand What kind of changes we need to make, they do give us space. They do give us room and they do give us grace And we have to be smart enough to take it. It's tough. Wendy, that is brutal. It's brutal.
Wendy Green [:It's brutal. It is. I'm here.
Janet Steinkamp [:So, yeah, a cup one of the things that I did was for myself, I would get up every morning. And once I got through those first 3 stages of grief, the disbelief, which you're describing, the anger, And the despair, and I could start accepting my new circumstances. I would get up every morning and I would, and I would picture in my head If my daughter came to my front door, knocked on the front door, I opened it, said good morning, and she said good morning, can I come in? I would ask myself, what's my decision? Because I get to decide that. What is my decision today? And I base that on my readiness. Am I ready to be successful in the changes she's asking me to make? There were a lot of mornings I would say, yeah, no, I couldn't because the risk was too great. I wasn't ready. So I would, in that instance, I would imagine myself, You know, let's step outside and have a cup of coffee in the sunshine and just chat. And then off we would go to have our days.
Janet Steinkamp [:On the days when I started feeling like I'd made the changes and really grown into the person I thought I needed to be for her, I would invite her in, and it took months to get there. Months. Months.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. That's interesting. I've been trying to reframe it in my mind, in 2 ways. 1, to say, well, you know, I don't have to parent anymore. That's not my job anymore, so I don't need to share my advice, my wisdom, my whatever I think I have To improve them, you know, they don't need that from me. Mhmm. And the other thing is, I believe that all They my children really need from me at this point is you're okay.
Janet Steinkamp [:That's okay.
Wendy Green [:Trust you. I respect you. You're okay. And and that's a halt. They don't want my advice, Which I guess makes me a little sad because I turned to my parents for advice, but it is what it is these days. Is that right? Is that what you see?
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. And your advice is probably really good. They would listen, right, if they would just listen. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So asking questions, that's that's your best friend. A question mark is your best friend.
Janet Steinkamp [:Stick with with, You know, what, how can I be of help? Is there anything I can do today to make your load a little lighter? I'd stay away from why. Why questions typically lead to guilt.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. For defense. Yeah.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yep. Or to to defense. Exactly. And I love what you said about, you know, I trust you. I have confidence in you. And I want you to have confidence in yourself. You're gr you're great. Yeah.
Janet Steinkamp [:You're gonna make mistakes. And very few mistakes can't be prepared, You know? Yeah. Even if you make a mistake, what's the greatest what's the greatest risk here? And if you stick in that in that corner, You're more likely for them to feel validated, encouraged, supported, loved. Do you believe in them? And then we have to zip it. That's what my grandson says to me. Mimi, me, zip it. At 6
Wendy Green [:years old.
Janet Steinkamp [:I know. And then I call my 91 year old mom. We're very fortunate to have our moms. And I, you know, You're not going to believe what just happened. That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that she very patiently listens and then talks about Room a cube or whatever she's doing with her day. I don't know. She's a great role model, but yeah.
Wendy Green [:See, and that's the thing also, I think, is the listening, the active listening. And when we're feeling attacked, the last thing we wanna do is, so, so what I hear you saying is that you don't like that I give you advice.
Janet Steinkamp [:No. It was like, what? No. It's not genuine. It's not sincere. They see right through it. Yeah. Actually, I want, I wanted to say this. I do have this new 7 part series coming out on grief, estranged my grief, my model.
Janet Steinkamp [:And and I really think, Wendy, in those first three stages of grief, we're not at our best. You know, the the disbelief, which is really what you're describing, that first stage of grief. You're recognizing your vulnerability, The vulnerability of your relationship, that's a big, big change. Then we move into anger, despair, and we We swirl around in that just minute by minute. And our emotional regulation is at its worst. We're weakest. We're most likely to snap. We're not able to really disengage and and be that rational mature adult parent.
Janet Steinkamp [:It's not our best time. So so it's important for us to recognize how grief impacts our communication and our Vulnerability to making things worse. You know, the bargaining, the pleading, the begging, the questions, the Threats, the anger, the, you know, the tit for tat kind of back and forth that we get into. We we check into our own child. You know? We we're not at our best. So, I just wanna encourage you because I do hear you in that first stage. Mhmm. And, it it's really powerful to think about it that way, I think.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. Yeah. And and I was listening to some of your series. I think that's really well done. There's a there's a comment here from Steve, that made me think of another question. Steve says, they may not wanna hear your advice, but they'll hear it and maybe use it later in life. So my question, and this is based on just anecdotal evidence. We as moms are more emotionally involved, and and our kids may find it easier to say to us, Back off, then they find it with dads.
Wendy Green [:Do you think that's true, or is that just my impression? Mhmm. Well,
Janet Steinkamp [:first, I think my husband would say he's more emotionally involved than I am. He's a strong I, He's a relator, and I'm a d. So I'm much more I move faster. That doesn't but I but your point is good. We tend to have a more, Primary role in the nurturing and relation relational aspect of the family as as moms. I would say, In general, we tend to let the people we have the most faith in that we know are at the the, what, Least risk of leaving, we tend to let them have it more because we're more confident they're not gonna walk away. Does that make sense? So I'm much more likely to Say nasty things to my mom because she's not going anywhere. You know? She's dedicated to me till the day either one of us dies.
Janet Steinkamp [:So it's not that I'm proud of the things I say or that I wanna be mean to her. It's just that that's the safest relationship to let my stuff out. Mhmm. The people that are I love and care about that are More likely to say, I don't need to take this. I'm out of here. Mhmm. That's probably not where I'm going to reveal my most deep Fears and insecurities.
Wendy Green [:Mhmm.
Janet Steinkamp [:So, yeah, I think just by nature of our family dynamics, moms are more likely to get it. Dads are actually more likely to be estranged. That's what the research shows.
Wendy Green [:Interesting. Okay.
Janet Steinkamp [:Whether that's by the dad's choice or the adult child, The the dads are more likely to be estranged and for longer periods of time.
Wendy Green [:That's interesting because When I think about my family, I mean, there's no way we would have spoken back to our father. Mhmm. Mhmm. No no problem with telling mom.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. The consequences. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Right?
Wendy Green [:Yeah. Yep. So, what about when we live far away from our Adult children. And, you know, in some ways, it's easier for them to keep that distance and and harder for us to try and establish that caring relationship. So any suggestions for Having having building bridges when they're far away.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. I think of that as a geo estrangement. You know, we use our geography, And and some of that is natural and normal. I mean, there was a 4 year period of time I didn't see my brother. We talked. We weren't estranged. We had busy separate lives, and that was okay. You know what? I don't know that either one of us felt that was a bad thing.
Janet Steinkamp [:Now, he so why do I say that? Because he wouldn't necessarily have known that. I could have hidden behind that, Been furious with him about something, and he never would have known we were estranged. It's just the job, the, the geography. And families do tend to move apart these days. It's much more likely that people will relocate, And and we do have busy lives. So again, to me, that's that's an a great opportunity for healthy communication. Okay. We're we're we're separating.
Janet Steinkamp [:So, you know, what's gonna be realistic? Can we call you once a week? Can we, have a A family happy hour on Friday nights. Can we, you know, how can we stay connected? So you actually sort some of that out on the front end. And that protects parents in to some degree because I can text my children in a day If I'm having a boring day, don't have a lot going on, and I miss my kids, I can text them 10, 12 times in a day. You know, it's insane if you're the one getting the facts. I know, make it stop. So I finally got to the point I could, I Said to them, I must be driving you crazy when I think about this. And they just laughed and looked at each other and kind of rolled their eyes. And the response was, I thought, pretty brilliant.
Janet Steinkamp [:Mom, you can text us all you want, but don't expect a reply. You, You, you know, there might be a text in all of that that we can reply to. You might get a thumbs up, But just don't keep your expectations realistic. It's not that you can't text us. And of course then I know I need to back down on my texts because It's not reasonable. If you're working, you've gotta do too much. Yeah.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. And and I think one of the challenges today too is that Everybody has a cell phone. You know? Yes. That Absa. I don't know about your 6 year olds, but all the teens that are in my family have cell phones. And so it used to be we would call my grandparents. Everybody would get on the phone. Mhmm.
Wendy Green [:Mhmm. You know? Now Yeah. You call each one individually. So I like your idea of, hey. Let's do a family Zoom, let's say, and 5 minutes. I mean, it doesn't have to be a long time just to check-in.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yep. Yep. See, if you are a visual person, Here we have like 5 basic learning styles, you know, audio, the hearing, seeing, touching, You know that so if you're someone who really needs to see people, that a FaceTime 5, 10 minutes is a huge, Huge thing for you. If you need to hear their voice, a phone call might work. Some people like to write letters. They're much more, you Now there's the kinetic aspect. You're seeing the words on the paper. It's much more personal for some people.
Janet Steinkamp [:Now you might get an email back. It may not be a handwritten note.
Wendy Green [:But the nice thing about that, Janet, though, is that they have time to think about it and process it. Right? You're not Confronting them, so to say. Yeah.
Janet Steinkamp [:You know, what I learned about writing letters is to take a picture. Because once it's gone and they have it, They can refer to it, and I can't see it anymore, so I don't know what they're talking about. So I learned after writing letters to take pictures of them.
Wendy Green [:That's a really good idea. Joanne, I see what you're saying. We can take that offline, but good luck with all of what you're going through right now. Yeah. So this, I wanna tell people how they can find you, Janet, because I think what you're offering is super important, and, You're very caring in the way that you know, the conversations I've had with you have been really I felt heard and cared for, so I appreciate that. Janet's website is when our adult children walk away .com. She does have resources on there, including the, audio series that she's setting up that I think Was really helpful for me. I appreciated that it was there.
Wendy Green [:Good. Yeah. And you can also email Janet at janet@jesteinkamp, which is s t e I n camp.com All this will be in the show notes too. So Well I would encourage you as you're going through anything like this to reach out to Janet. Check out her website and, Have a conversation. Are there are there 2 or 3 takeaways you'd like to leave with us before we end the show?
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. First of all, you're not alone. You are not alone. I think if the research were done again today and people were feeling, Not so, vulnerable, we would find out that the percentage of people with estranged relationships is much higher than 27%. It's just so much more common, not any less painful or scary. It's just more common. So you're we really aren't alone in this. And then I would I would actually extend an invitation because I have not found yet the best way to get people together To talk about this, I hosted some book clubs in 2023.
Janet Steinkamp [:They were not all that popular. I love book but not everybody does. So I'd be very interested in getting some feedback from people about what would be most helpful. You know, an open mic night, Coffee club. You know, what would it be to get people together? And then I'd be more than happy that you don't have to pay me to talk about this disc. There's a way to sign up for some time with me that's there's no cost, and then we can talk more about what might be helpful to you As individuals and for your family. So I'm not, I'm not out to make a lot of money. I mean, I have to pay my bills, but, Yeah.
Janet Steinkamp [:I mean, I just think this is really important work.
Wendy Green [:It is, and and I so appreciate what you're doing and what you just offered. I think that's beautiful. So, And I appreciate all the comments and questions that came in on the on the chat, and Janet and I will look at that When the show is over, if there's anybody that needs an individual answer, we will get back to you. I also hope that You guys will consider becoming a Boomer believer by going to buy me a coffee dot com / heyboomer 0413, and have the opportunity to speak with one of our guests over Zoom Every month. We're going to finish this series on estrangement talking about friends. So we all have had that experience where we've had a good friend for a long time, and then all of a sudden, things start drifting away Or things change, and you start to feel like it's a toxic relationship. It's not good for you anymore. But there's a sense of loss, kind of that grief that Janet was talking about.
Wendy Green [:When someone's been a friend for a while, there is a sense of loss when they're suddenly gone from your life. So next week, we're going to be talking to Margie Zabel Fisher, Who I found, when she published an article titled how to prevent being estranged from a friend. She's a regular contributor to many online publications, and I think you will find that, that episode very, very Interesting and helpful also. So continue to embrace this time of your life with Exploration, self expression, and fulfillment, and self care. So the Hey Boomer Show is produced by me, Wendy Greene, and the music was written by and performed by Griffin Hanrato, who is a student at the North Carolina University School of the Arts and my grandson. So I love that. Thank you so much, Janet.
Janet Steinkamp [:Thank you for having me.
Wendy Green [:Yeah. And good luck on your continuing journey.
Janet Steinkamp [:Yeah. Thank you.
