Ever wondered what it’s like to be a woman in the building and construction industry? As more and more women enter the trades, it’s being proved that this isn’t just men’s work - in fact, women are bringing unique perspectives and strengths that are only improving the worksite. 

This week’s episode is hosted by some incredible woman in building: Beth from Beth Builds, Molly (Matt’s first year apprentice) and Helena, now in her third year working for Hamish. We hear their journeys into the trade, their outlook on the industry and challenges in celebrating women in trade.

Meet the Hosts

It’s an interesting mix of backgrounds and experiences that contribute to this conversation. Beth, previously a mature age apprentice, now runs her own business, Beth Builds. Molly, after a brief foray into a university degree, discovered her passion for construction and is currently in her first year as an apprentice. Helena transitioned from a hospitality background to the construction scene, embracing the active and dynamic environment as a third-year apprentice. These women, with diverse paths leading to the same industry, are carving out spaces for themselves while smashing stereotypes.

We hear their interesting perspectives on and experiences in:

• The complexity of diversity in the industry
• Navigating the culture of male-dominated worksites
• Encouraging uncomfortable conversations
• Building unlikely friendships
• Practical advice on women's workwear

Women are undeniably making their mark in the trades, and by standing firm and excelling in their roles, they challenge and change the industry landscape—celebrated not as tokens, but as capable, competent colleagues.

LINKS:

Connect with us on Instagram:  @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram:  @sanctumhomes

Website:   www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt: 

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website:  www.carlandconstructions.com/

Beth: Everyone. Hi, shall I do a quick intro? Yeah, I think so. Well, hello, my name is Beth. And I'm from Beth builds and I've been on this podcast once before, and we're doing a special podcast today to celebrate women in trade. And we've got two other cool cats coming on the podcast who can introduce themselves.

Molly: Yes. Well, I'm Molly. Um, first year apprentice for Matt Carland constructions.

Helena: Hi, I'm Helena from Sanctum homes and I'm a third year apprentice.

Beth: Cool. Cool. All right. So basically you're a third year apprentice and you work with Hamish and Molly. You are a first year apprentice and you work with Matt. Yeah, cool.

So, you finished school and then what happened, Molly?

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I'd like it or not, but it was free, and I was gonna learn useful shit. So, had nothing to lose, and then did that. Yeah, the only girl in that class and a lot of companies called up looking for apprentices and specifically would request a girl because Really? Yeah, everyone's looking for that diversity hire at the moment.

Well, that's interesting. Yeah, um, so I tried out a couple of places before I found Matt, and How many places did you do trials at? Uh, I tried out like just two other, I did work experience days for two other companies, but I don't know, there just wasn't good vibes.

Molly: None of the people weren't as like, they weren't that friendly, and they were sort of building lower quality homes, like not passive at all. And at the time I didn't really consider passive, like I didn't even know what it was. So then like, I was trying out a lot of different people because I knew I sort of had my pick of the litter with trading shortage at the minute plus people wanting a girl.

So yeah, then I met Matt and Had like one meeting with him. He was just like I'm going to be completely honest, we want you. And I was like, okay. And um, just yeah, after seeing how they build their houses, how it's very like forward, I don't know, like how we should be building our houses.

Beth: Like above industry standard.

Yes, yes. Full net's going into it. Yeah, now I get what you, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

Like, some of the old blokes you find on site. Yeah. And yeah, did a trial day and all the boys were super friendly and just really nice and chatty, nice, normal boys.

Beth: You, you're not a mature age apprentice, is that right? No, no, I'm 20.

Molly: Yeah, okay. So yeah, Josh Cutler.

Beth: That's sweet. So that means like, you know, you get straight into your traits.

You'll be able to have more time, obviously, really.

Molly: Yeah.

Beth: Um, and what about you, Helena? So are you, when do you turn fourth year? It must be soon.

Helena: June. Yeah, I'm pretty

Beth: excited. You're almost fourth year. Yeah.

Helena: Yeah.

Beth: So tell us about how you Yeah, got to where you are. Did you call off a million people? Was your sort of journey the same as Molly's?

And I was like, I clearly want to be in a train because I really like an active environment where it's like changing all the time. What made

Beth: you do a Venn diagram?

Helena: Was that your idea? It was like one of my friend's idea. It was like, make a telly and make a diagram so that like you can kind of work out where you'll fall in it.

Beth: That's like what a career advisor would do, really. Yeah.

Beth: You know, I'm telling everyone how old you are and how old you were when you started

Helena: I'm at 35 now I was 31 when I started?

Beth: 31, 32, yeah, so you came into your apprenticeship already with like quite a bit of life experience and like, you know, what, 13 kind of years of being in a working environment after high school really.

Helena: Yeah, it was a pretty debilitating financial change to be honest, living out of home already. And having like a certain lifestyle that wasn't going to be financially supported through my full time job anymore.

Beth: yeah, yeah. Well, that's cool that like as a third year, almost fourth year that you already feel like confident enough in your skill set to go out and start doing cash. So that's pretty cool.

Helena: Yeah. Yeah. And it's fun and just finding people that trust me to do it. I've done a lot of practice like at my sister's place with all her home renovations,

Yeah. So I was like, it doesn't matter if I make a mistake there, . Exactly. I'll still be around to fix it. .

Beth: That's the best, that's the best part. Also, I guess maybe you came to trade a bit. I, I was also a mature age apprentice when I did my apprenticeship. So obviously you came to trade a bit later on. Um, 'cause. Yeah, you probably didn't realize it was a viable choice when you finished school straight away.

Beth: I wouldn't mind going back and just maybe asking Molly another question about like, I think it's really interesting how you said you did the pre app, but this is blowing my mind. This sentence that you said before you did a pre app and then. There were so many employers that are looking for a diversity hire that you felt like you had the pick of the litter, which is a cool term.

So that's really interesting that you had that kind of moment.

Molly: Yeah, I think it was definitely very. sort of rare occurrence. I think timing also just worked out so well for me because like there is definitely the apprenticeship shortage going on at the moment mixed in with yeah like people are starting to realize that girls are like just as capable if not more than the young blokes they're hiring and they're starting to realize that.

Beth: how did it make you feel when you Like, did you feel like, oh, that's awesome that I get to choose who I want to work with? Or did it make you feel like, oh, how did you react to it? Were you like, oh, this is sick. Everyone wants me. Or were you like, oh, they only want me because I'm a girl. How did that play out in your head?

Yeah, that was, uh, the, the two people I tried out. That was like their mindset about it. But yeah, I was just pretty happy that I was able to have a choice. Because, you know, you're spending the next four years of your life with these people, five days a week, you want it to be. With good people you get along with, so being able to make that decision and yeah, basically be given a decision instead of trying to get what I can, was definitely very grateful for that.

Beth: I think that's actually just so cool. I mean, I haven't heard anything like that before, so that makes me really happy. What about you? Um, when you were looking for an apprenticeship, did you have a similar experience or was it a bit more tricky?

So I called him up first and was like, Hey, I'm looking for an apprenticeship. He was like, I just hired someone, but this guy, Hamish, he's looking for someone. And so, yeah, then I just called Hamish and got something straight away. And I was like, wow, that was way easier than I thought it was going to be. So not a lot of effort.

Beth: All that, all that sort of networking, um, networking stuff. That pays off because, yep, you're talking about Kaia from Hooters. So he's obviously friends with, um, Hamish. Everyone talks to each other in the industry. So, yeah. Oh, awesome. And then when you had the, when you had your, um, first kind of trial and stuff, did you have a trial before you started?

Yeah. And they were like, they were like, Please just leave whenever you need to and just go to the McDonald's on the road.

Beth: Have you had, have either of you had moments where you have been on a site where, I mean, I know both of you work for good people, so, but like, have either of you been on sites where you're like, Oh, there's no running water or there's, you know, like the toilet, you can't use it. No toilet paper, anything?

Molly: No, not for me. I've been fortunate in that area, like, no, it's been pretty good.

Beth: Yeah. I think what you guys are, I feel like you don't have enough horror stories. I've got plenty of horror stories.

Helena: What are your horror stories?

Beth: I've had many, uh, like no site toilet at all. on site or site toilet but no like running water like a port a potty but water not connected so you can't can't wash your hands and like if you've got your period like you need to be able to wash your hands and well anyone should be able to wash their hands anyway but more so um you know if you're someone that gets your period yeah just like things like that and i've had i've said to like My boss at the time, like, Oh, I'm heading off.

Helena: I kind of love it, though. Like I had like really bad period pain, like one day right before TAFE and I'd been up like all night. And I just got into tape and I was like, there were like three male teachers all standing in a circle and I was like, they're like, Oh, how are you doing? And I was like, Oh man, I've just, I'm done a period pain.

I'm really going to try and stick it out. And all of them just like split up and just like almost running opposite directions. They were just, if you need to go home, just go home. It's fine. It's fine. I

Beth: just squirm and freak out. Hey, it's so funny. I often like I say this. I tell to my apprentice, I've got an apprentice as well, um, who is a girl, second year, Ruby.

But I mean, you know, I think society is definitely getting a lot better. Like, you know, all the toilets and I mean, like I was in a, um, call the other day that was about like having these, um, kind of like period packs to put in there. Oh yeah, I

Molly: saw that one.

Beth: Yeah, I think, yeah, there's been a few of them.

Like period packs to put in the, in the toilets and stuff. So it's definitely, it's definitely getting a lot better. But even just like little things like, you know, sometimes you do have. Such bad period pain, they actually can't work. Yeah. Yeah. And it's different, different for everyone. I've had times where like I haven't realized I was getting it and I'm wearing light colored shorts like when I used to work on the tools and I'm like, well, I gotta go home.

Molly: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So how old were you when you started your apprenticeship? I was

Beth: 23.

Molly: Yeah. Did you try uni before then? Like it obviously wasn't an immediate option for you. Yeah,

Beth: I tried millions of other things before that. Yeah, so I used to work in, I worked in retail. So I did that and I did like a little stint at uni. I did like tourism and events, um, but I didn't finish it. I think I did like a cert in it when it was supposed to be a diploma.

So yeah, I kind of had a bit of a roundabout way of getting to mine, but I mean, My dad's a builder as well. So, you know, I was, I was lucky in that sense. Actually, I, I don't like saying I was lucky. I went to an international women's day event about two years ago. I was actually a guest speaker on a panel that they had there.

You were actually the best student, right? Yes. You're also a woman, but you might've been the best student, but you're sitting here going, you know, they wanted to have a diversity higher and I've got to have the peak of the leader, which is great, but you know, it's kind of doing a bit of the same thing. So I always do that and say.

But, um, my personal experience, which is, I want to know if you guys are the same is. I find like, I'll always discount my own abilities. It'll take me to do something 20 times before I say, Oh, yeah, I can do that. Whereas if I feel like this is a mass generalization. So not everyone's the same, but a lot of times.

Molly: Yeah, definitely.

Beth: Um,

Molly: yeah, even just small things. I've done like a couple tasks at one job, and then I'll just be like, Oh, they'll be like, Oh yeah, you did this, um, at whatever job. Like, yeah, you've done this before. And I'm like, Oh, can you, can you just show me again? So I just need to make sure that I know every step.

Just don't fuck it up again. Because like yeah, it takes me a bit to get self-confident in my ability, I think. Yeah, definitely. Compared to, I guess the like young, 17-year-old first year boys that are in my position, .

Beth: Right. If we could all have this, the confidence that 17 to 18-year-old boys have, imagine what we could achieve.

Yeah. I mean, it'd be incredible. , what about you? Do you, do you have the same experience?

The men around me, like, I think we're a little bit predisposed to do and I'm like, I feel so like I'm enjoying work now a lot more because of it and I feel a lot more confident because of it as well. So I wish I'd kind of started doing it, you know, two years ago from the start

Beth: So so that's maybe something interesting for like if there's any other women that Uh, in our industry who listen to this podcast, like often, I know I get DMS from people, um, on my Instagram and they'll be like, Oh, Beth, like, when do you start to feel?

Was it just because you were doing the positive self talk? Or when do you think you started to feel? Like, and I'm not saying you think you're an expert, but like, I think that's impressive to, you know, like, when do you think you started to feel like you. You know, knew what you were up to.

Helena: My therapist was basically like, you are so nice to the people around you.

Why are you so horrible to yourself? And she was like, just be nicer to yourself. And I was like, uh, yeah, I guess I should try that like a couple of months ago. Now it's working. Yeah. So recommend it. Recommending therapy. Yeah.

Like, I think that's kind of one of those buzz kind of words at the moment, but it still does ring very true. I did this imposter syndrome, um, test. For this other, I mean like this future builder thing, which anyway, they had Julie, the psychologist that sometimes comes on this podcast on there and she was talking about it.

And I did the test and I came out with like 76 percent or something, which is quite high. And I was like, Oh, yeah, wow. And this, this, the thing they were saying to kind of battle against it was exactly what you said. The positive, positive talk and like speaking to yourself, how you would speak to a mate or perhaps a work colleague.

And that took about like 12 months. And then like I was lucky, like I chose a good working environment. And the boys were like, just carry what you can and that's enough, but there are plenty of people that are not in that environment that are like, if I can do it, you should be able to do it. But our bodies are way more petite, like they're smaller.

Our muscles are not designed to carry the same amount of strength. And like we get stronger throughout our apprenticeships and like working, carrying and moving everything. But most of the time you should never expect yourself. To be able to carry what the guys can, because it's not worth hurting your body doing that.

And I worked for this one builder and agreed on like an hourly rate before I started and stuff. And then I was working there for about two weeks. Anyway, afterwards, they weren't paying my invoice and I was like, Oh, like what's happening? Why isn't the invoice being paid? And they were like, Oh, we're not going to pay you that rate because you're a girl and you can't work to the same capacity as the men on site.

For example, For every four lengths of timber that they're carrying on their shoulders, you're only carrying two. Pathetic.

Molly: So rude.

Beth: This is only like maybe, what, like six years ago that this happened. Yeah. Five, six years ago.

Helena: It probably still happens on plenty of worksites now as well, actually.

Helena: I'm very aware of my bubble. Yeah.

Beth: But I think like, Molly, have you noticed your strength increase in the last like six months? Yeah. When I

Molly: first kept like, yeah, the first probably like three months, I was just so sore every single day. Like, cause you're just using so many muscles I wasn't using before at all.

Like even yeah. Like, my wrists were so sore from just drilling, and like, yeah, now I like, go and pick up a circ saw, which I thought was really heavy, found heavy at the start of my apprenticeship, but now it's, yeah, no, it's, I've gotten stronger, and yeah, that's, the boys, that's something the boys always like, they didn't make me feel like, oh, yeah, I'm a girl, so it's a bit weaker.

They'd always be like, well, you're starting off, of course, like, that's going to be heavy, or like, you'll get stronger as you go on. I was always reminded of that. So it was never, yeah, had that factor in my head as much.

They are so heavy. I remember when I first started, I couldn't lift it. You know, like when you're like nailing noggins or something up overhead or like between buttons and like you can't lift the nail gun and hold the block at the same time. It's like you need two hands on the nail gun. So clamps baby.

I'm all about the clamps. It's like the first thing I said to Rubes, I was like, girlfriend, do you need a set of clamps? A big set of clamps because these are going to be your best friend.

Helena: I love clamps. Clamps are the best thing ever.

Beth: Why would you struggle when you can use clamps? But I think that's a cool thing that women also do bring to the industry is like, you can, you know, we've got a different way of thinking about things and maybe analyzing things from different angles and stuff.

Yeah, exactly What do we reckon about like maybe what's been your proudest moment about being in the industry and then what's been like the toughest moment?

Helena: I would say mine almost collide like the amount of people that just like walk up to me and they're like, Oh, what do you do? And I'm like, I'm a carpenter and they're like, Oh my god, congratulations!

And I'm like, it's nice, but at the same time I'm like, does it need to be a surprise? Yeah.

Beth: It's kind of, that's kind of like a bit of a double edged sword, I reckon, because I have this whole thing where I'm like, you know what, I get sick to death of being like The poster person for women in trade or like, you know, like, well, it's not my job.

Helena: good but bad. And like feeling like, I think as well, because at this point in time, there aren't as many of us in the trade industry as women. I feel like we have more opportunities to kind of branch out and get what we want out of a workplace rather than feeling limited and like people wouldn't want to hire you before for being a woman.

And now, like most people that are, um, building houses or doing rentals, like, they're so excited and they feel more comfortable having a woman on site. So it's beneficial to the builder and for us as well.

Like, cause yeah, if you're like someone who lives by themselves, and you need like, I don't know, just some jobs done, you'd feel a lot more comfortable having a woman come and do it all for you. And just like, it's also, I feel like sometimes, yeah, for a rental or something, we could be, women are a little bit more approachable when it comes to discussing stuff with a client. I don't know if they're on site. It's just like how I see it a little bit. I don't know.

Beth: Yeah, I definitely agree. Like, I think like for me, transitioning from being like on the tools to like having a business, being a business owner, and then, you know, like being the one that does deal with the clients. I, I think definitely there are jobs that I have done or am doing now where being a woman has given me an edge, a hundred percent.

I'm the same. Um, but you know, it's good to kind of just own it sometimes and go, well, yeah, if that means that I can get my foot in the door that way. And then I can prove that I am Doing a great job and then other people can see it, then it's worth it. But it definitely, like you have so many opportunities, you know, like, I don't know if you want to go out and have your own business later, but you know, you could have like.

An all girls crew or something like that would be, I would love to have all girls

Helena: take all

Beth: the, all

Helena: the women that have just graduated

you'll get to work with Ruby. She's a great time.

Helena: Yeah. I've seen her on Instagram. She looks good.

Beth: She's a real character. Are there any other girls in, in either of your teams or no?

Helena: We've just hired one. It was my friend's little sister. So I'm very

Beth: excited. How good is that? And, and how good that like you, you'll get to sort of like watch her working in what you've seen so far with like her signing up period and stuff.

Is there any differences between, you know, what three and a half or three years ago when you started? Is there anything that you're seeing happen with her that you didn't get? That you're like, Oh, the industry is getting better and better.

That's like. Uh, I was very lucky that I have got to do a lot of like really fun stuff through my apprenticeship, but she is just, she seems so strong and so confident. Like, it's so nice. Like, I just, I wasn't sure like at first how much I was going to enjoy having another woman on site. Like, I like having, like, I've got lots of women in my life and I'm so used to just working with men.

But then having another woman, it's like, so enjoyable because you just have more things you can kind of relate to and talk about.

Molly: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things, like, cause I, my part time job was like catering and it was all women. It was like girls my age and mums. And like, yeah, the biggest thing I noticed was like the social shift.

Beth: with

Molly: girls.

You

Beth: just, I

Beth: know. You're missing them. It sounds like you're missing out the mateship, the mateship kind of thing, which I can definitely relate to. Like I used to work in retail, so yeah, it's standing around talking

Molly: all day. Yeah. Like, yeah. Talk like just talking shit with the girls. Yeah, I definitely get that sometimes with the boys.

Sometimes. But um, it's good and it's, yeah, there's pros and cons like this. I, like, when there's days where I'm just like, I don't want anyone to fucking talk to me. Like, and I can just be in my own world. I definitely can get that.

And like, a lot of my friends, you know, might have kids or be doing like different things to me. And like, I'm not personally doing that. So I think like, in my past. When I'm looking for new friends or when I've made new friends or connections with people, they've all been through

Molly: work. So

Beth: it's like all my really close friends are people that I used to work in, in, in fashion retail with.

And now, When I'm at work working on the tools, it's like your best mates, like some 50 year old, you know, talking about football and playing cricket or I don't know, telling you some weird stories. So it's definitely like, yeah. How do you kind of make friends when you're in an industry where they're not really people that you'd normally be friends

Molly: with?

And it's one of the Like the social aspect, that shift, was not something I expected at all.

Beth: It's something you wouldn't think about when you, if you're new, you know, someone that's listening that's, that wants to maybe do an apprenticeship, it's probably not something that's at the top of your list.

You're probably more thinking about, oh, am I going to get bullied? Am I going to be stigmatised? Yeah, that was all the shit I was thinking

Molly: about, not making friends. Like I was thinking about whether or not, yeah. Cop some like workplace harassment. That was a good one. Not whether or not someone talked to me at lunch.

Beth: I love that that's like, you haven't copped any workplace harassment. Like, I think that's amazing. I have.

I expected like at least the whole workplace to just be like, dudes just saying inappropriate stuff and like. Most of the time I either don't even notice if they are and like one of the boys around me will just be like, I'm so sorry. I'm so embarrassed for them. I'm going to have words to them for you. I love that.

Beth:Men should be calling this shit out. That's amazing. Yes,

Helena: 100%. Um, it's so good, but yeah, I totally, I totally agree. Like when I entered the industry, I thought it was going to be way more social and chatty. Then it turned out to be and it was like a huge adjustment that I just hadn't anticipated.

That's a cool thing about Instagram though. Like, um, I almost like, I don't get, I don't get jealous. I get like excited. Like, you know, obviously talking to you too and then like seeing what Ruby's experiences and stuff like I get so pumped up and excited that how different it is from when, you know, I didn't even do my apprenticeship that long ago, like, you know, so I mean, it's exciting to see the difference, but at the same time, it's like, it still has so much more to change.

And then, you know, you just make connections from there.

Helena: Yeah, definitely. And I think sometimes like, Asking for advice on tools or equipment or even work wear, like work clothing. It is such a different experience for men than it is for women. Cause we're like a different size, we're a different fit. And like, what works for them?

Like, I Just split so many pads with my ass. I was going through like a pair of pads every two or three months and I was like, this is so unaffordable and like embarrassing to do on the work side. You

Beth: know, I've seen a few boys split their pads at work. So you're not the only one.

Helena: Yeah. So I started buying like my pads, like two sizes too big.So then I can bend and move in them.

Helena: Uh, I've been buying the souk ones though, so you can, like, you adjust them at the back so they go in around your waist but fit around your butt.

Beth: You know what, Molly? I reckon, I reckon I might have some stuff I could send you.

This is not really good for our podcast, but But I reckon, I reckon I could give you some, um, shorts and pants that would fit you quite nicely.

Beth: Yeah, stuff that's ill fitting, and do you know what though, I mean, I don't know if I'm the only one that's a little bit vain, maybe, but like, I don't want to walk around, Looking like shit every day because like you said, you have to wear this outfit every day.

So at least like you feel you, I feel like I perform better in every aspect of my life. If I feel good externally, maybe that's just me, but exactly. Yeah. That's so funny. I love it how it's like every workwear shop you go into there's a tiny one meter section which is the accurate representation of the one percent and the one meter in the shop of women in the industry.

So no hairy situations for you guys you haven't really got any like what's been probably like the hardest thing you reckon the friendships or? I

I was sort of just waiting for someone to make a dig, and, like, or waiting for someone to just, like, give me shit, and stuff like that. Um Isn't

Beth: that fact, like Like, I think men listening should hear that and hear that women doing their job, going to work or going to trade school every day, waiting for someone to make them feel like shit.

Like that's, for them, we can imagine because we do it, but like, you know, for men, try imagining feeling like you're waiting for someone to do something wrong the whole time in a pretty crap way.

Helena: You sound a bit disappointed, almost.

Beth: Well, I can give you a couple of stories if you want.

Helena: Yeah, someone, someone listening is going to need some bad stories to relate to. They can't just have all the good stuff. Yeah, I was thinking, I don't really

Molly: have any hardships to bring to the table. Like, it's sort of, um,

Beth: No, but do you know what? That's really positive. That's, you know, then that means like maybe.

Beth: know, you should do it.

Molly: Yeah. Like I've definitely heard some other horror stories going on at the moment.

Like it's still happening, obviously. Like my tape has been. I've been constantly reached out by them. Often they've been like, oh, we checked on like monthly basically, because like I'm a woman in this field saying like, we just want to know that you're not. Um, experiencing, yeah, harassment or like, anything, um, like, yeah, we had, we had to kick out a bloke from TAFE the other week because of stuff he was, like, saying about women and stuff like that, and, um, so yeah, it's awesome that they, um, like, it's shit that's still happening, but it's awesome that, um, Boys who are being like that are facing the consequences, finally, and it's being called out.

Um, and those resources have been there for me from the get go, which is just, yeah, awesome. But I just haven't hated them, which is

Beth: great. But

Molly: they,

And then it ended up that, like, they were saying disgusting stuff about me when I wasn't in the room as well. And then like. somebody else actually from the class told the teacher what was happening and then it was like this huge investigation that I had to go through and it's, it's good that that stuff doesn't happen now.

Well, you know, I'm sure it still is, but as often,

Molly: I think that also your story shows the level of resilience like women in trades have compared to these. Young blokes who are sort of just walking into it.

Helena: Not to say though, they don't also get bullied and experience their fair share of like bad experiences as well.

It definitely

Beth: does. Yeah, my apprentice is telling me about other kids at her trade school whose boss was like, Oh, don't bother giving me your trade school fees because I'm not gonna pay it. And I was like, what?

Helena: Yeah, I had a kid that was like up a ladder and his boss came and pulled his feet out from under him as a joke and was like, haha, like, yeah, just watch yourself.

And like, yeah, like so many horror stories from TAFE with the guys actually.

Beth: That's ridiculous. And

Beth: Really? Because there's not enough, or?

Helena: Yeah, I think, like, they don't seem to be as sought after for apprenticeships, like, particularly the younger kids. Yeah. Like, it seems to me that a lot of builders are looking for an older apprentice, maybe not necessarily, like, 30, but, like, more 20s than, like, a 16 or 19 year old.

Beth: Yeah, I've never had a young apprentice, I've only ever had mature age, so.

Molly: Yeah, the life experience, it does make a difference, like, just even a little bit. I think, yeah, just a, you're in a different sort of spot in life, you're a lot more reliable, and more, yeah, I guess, more likely to be more committed to that five days a week sort of thing.

Beth: Yeah, we actually give a shit. So, that's two other chippies that are loving it and want to keep being chippies. Do you want to be chippies or builders?

Beth: One thing at a time. You don't, you don't want to become a builder? I don't know. Hopefully I

Molly: would like to but, you know, I'm definitely more of just one thing at a time sort of person.

Beth:Yeah. Helena, why don't you want to be a builder?

Helena: I've done a lot of management, general managing and stuff in my time, and I don't like the responsibility, like, I'm the kind of person who kind of Cares so much about the people around me that I don't stop thinking about it. I can never take holidays. I really like holidays.So I'd rather just like work for someone and be happy and enjoy myself.

Beth: Yeah.

Helena: Stay on those stresses.

Helena: I do have a random question though. So like, what do you guys do with your hair? Because I find, like, since I started this, my hair has been, like, matted. Dry. With, like, sawdust. Sawdust. So dry. Yeah. So dry. And, like, I just struggle not, like, having to wash my hair every day or having mats. Like, it is a nightmare having long hair.

Molly: It is, yeah. I always claw clip. Well, not today, but I always use my claw clip. But then. Sometimes it's like, Oh, but then if I want to put a cap on, it gets in the way. The fun protection

Beth: kills

Molly: it. And then the

Even if you're not actually doing stuff with concrete dust, but like, even if you've got like a slab on the, you're working on a concrete slab and you sweep all the sawdust and you know, it just gets in your hair. But I wet, I was, I wet my hair every night.

Helena: Yeah, I think that you just have to, but in winter it's so horrible.

Like my hair takes like four hours to dry in winter.

Beth: See, I don't have that problem. I

Helena: got limp

Beth: in hair.

Helena: I go, I go with, I started doing like weird hair bubbles. I find they make my hair, like, less, like, matted, and it seems to get slightly less dusty, but I do agree, like, wearing, like, a big hat most of the time, which I don't do, but should do, I reckon will probably help.

Beth: Yeah, it keeps it covered from the, um, from the dust as well, but then you can still wear earmuffs with a cap like this, too.

Beth: Funny. What about any other last minute questions?

What haven't we talked about that you thought you wanted to talk about? Or is there anything you want, burning things you want to say?

Helena: I found the shoes, I'm still trying every pair of shoes to decide which pair of shoes I like the best. I've tried blue steel.

Molly: Are they good? Because I've, I've heard from some blokes, blue steel is the best, gotta have

Beth: it.

So you don't roll the old ankle with the slip ons. But slip ons are nice if you're coming in and out.

Helena: I just find they're heavy, the blue steels, like. I like them, but they're like quite a heavy boot. So I've just bought a pair from like England that it's steel cap boots that I'm really excited to try.

Cause they're like, they've got some mesh. So like a summertime still cap boots, nice and breathable. They look quite stylish. I'll send you a photo later. Um, so I'm excited to try those and see how they go. Cause yeah, some guy talked me into a pair of red backs and I've just absolutely hated them, but like spent so much money on them.

I've just worn them anyway,

Beth: boots that are still made in Australia. I think two red backs.

Beth: Right, well, hopefully Matt and Hamish aren't trying to get any sponsorships from Redbath. They

Helena: won't be getting them out.

Not for women, not a good shoe for women, you know. That's all I'm saying.

Beth: Cool. Alright, so the general consensus is Happy, happy chippies, good working environment, all good. Definitely a viable job for women in industry.

Helena: Yeah. Come join us.

Beth: Yeah. I reckon, I reckon, um, there should be a little, um, we need like a little girls, a little, well, I mean, just a general mixer event.

You guys should come to the next SBA event or something. And I'll bring Ruby and everyone can catch up. Yeah, all right. I reckon that's um, I reckon we've probably been chatting on and off for a while and I reckon surely we've got Surely we've got

Beth: Yeah, I reckon there needs to be some more like Mixes or something, but then they're also kind of lame those things

Helena: Yeah, it is nice though to meet more women in the industry and talk about experiences, I think particularly when it comes to like menstrual stuff as well because I think that's It's one of the hardest things to navigate, particularly because, like, most of the time men have no idea how you're feeling.

And they don't know how to approach

Molly: the subject, they get so bloody, yeah, like you said, squirmy. It's just like, it's just, it's normal mate, just grow up.

Beth: What do you wish, what do you wish that other people, like men that you worked with, would do that they don't do? Well, it's not like,

Would I, do I say like, oh yeah, that sucks, or do I just? Because they're scared to say the wrong thing. Yeah, yeah. But I'm definitely not that type of person. I prefer someone to say the wrong thing and like, have a conversation about stuff. Because I'm, yeah, blokes definitely, I think blokes can get scared to say stuff sometimes in case it's the wrong thing.

But I definitely would prefer people to say the wrong thing so then we can, you know, have a conversation about it. I hate the sort of Cancel culture and like jumping down people's throat whenever they say something it's like something wrong because like you need to be able to learn and like 100

Beth: percent yeah

Molly: So yeah that's And I

Beth: reckon, I reckon it's kind of like, um, it's, it's the same as like it being like too, too far the other way.

I swear like a sailor. So it's like, I hate that stuff. Or like, you know, like someone will like make a comment and then they'll be like, Oh, we can't talk about that because there's a girl here. And I'm like. You shouldn't be fucking talking about that whether there's a girl here or not. You just shouldn't talk like that regardless.

So don't blame me for the fact that you're saying shit you shouldn't be saying.

Helena: But yeah, I think even just saying like, um, like what do you need? Like if you say like, you know, like I've got really bad cramps, what do you need? It's like, can I do anything for you or do you just want to be heard? And like, or like, cause a lot of the time, sometimes.

Beth: Yeah, and you're not telling people because you're saying that you want special treatment. You're telling people so that they're aware. Like, like, I always say the same thing about my moods or the team's moods. I'm like, if, if you guys, if everyone's just open about how they're feeling, like saying, Oh, hey, I'm just saying, you know, I've got really bad period cramps today.

So I'm probably going to be like a bit slower or a bit like, you know. You just want someone to acknowledge, uh, okay, so that then you don't feel shit about how you might be working or like, Oh, Hey, I'm in a really grumpy mood this morning. I'm just letting everyone know. I just need to get that out of the way.

Like sometimes

Helena: nothing personal.

Uncomfortable about it. The more you talk about it, the less weird it is.

Helena: Yeah, and the better it makes you feel as well. Just got to normalise it.

Beth: Yeah, I love that. Well, maybe that's a good spot to, uh, to finish on a good note. Everyone get comfortable with, uh, talking about uncomfortable things. All right, guys, what do to wrap this up? Molly, you're in charge.

Molly: Um, what am I supposed to do? I think I just press stop recording. Is that all? Yeah. Are we done recording? I reckon. Yep, alright.