Happy almost Halloween, scouts! On this episode, we’re joined by the wonderful Emily Edwards, host of the Fuckbois of Literature podcast, a podcast about the toxic characters you encounter in all your favorite books! (Apparently, Amy March is not a fuckboi (?!)) We also chat about the delightful Grady Hendrix, horror writer and author of Horrorstor and My Best Friend’s Exorcism, two books that will make you laugh, cry, and gasp in horror, sometimes at the same time! We also discuss our experiences with supernatural phenomena, why Edgar Allan Poe was a real son of a gun to be married to, and, of course, Dear David, one of Twitter’s most important—and scariest!—contributions to social discourse.

[PERK ALERT] Sign up for our newsletter and get access to our free tool: The HPS Guide to Picking Your Publishing Path. This nifty tool aims to help you gear up for the frontier between traditional and indie publishing, and deciding which of the two is right for you. Get it right here: https://mailchi.mp/da9486666cc5/hps-guide-publishing-path

Check Emily's Fuckbois of Literature Podcast at: https://www.fuckboisoflit.com/episodes

And on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/fuckboisoflit

Our website: hybridpubscout.com/episode-51-grady-hendrix-fuckbois-of-literature

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You.

Welcome to the hybrid club Scout podcast with me, Emily

einerlander and me. Corinne kalafke, hello. We're mapping

the frontier between traditional and indie publishing today.

We're delighted to be joined by Emily Edwards, longtime writer,

producer and host of comedy podcast about books fuck boys of

literature, on which she discusses toxic people from your

favorite novels. She barely graduated with a degree in

writing literature and publishing, but is still making

a go of it. In addition to the podcast, she also is a freelance

writer and is shopping around a mystery novel. Welcome Emily,

welcome. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited. Yeah,

thank you for joining us for our favorite episode of the year,

too. Yeah, Halloween is always the one we look forward to, even

when we got, you know, into mostly interviews or like, no,

Halloween is for us. Yeah, Halloween is for fun.

I know there's always so much build up to Halloween. It's more

important than, like, the actual, like, December holidays

that people celebrate. I'm like, Halloween is universal,

especially amongst English nerds. For some reason it is

just like, it's everything, and it makes me so happy. Yeah, it's

a, it's a, just let me have this situation right now. Exactly.

Yeah, true.

Like, I'm super, super busy right now, but I was with work,

but I was like, I'm doing 31 for 31 this year, and I don't care.

I need something fun.

Yeah, oh, I'm wearing my shining earrings.

Etsy. We just did an episode on the shining. It was, oh yeah. I

didn't get, I didn't listen to that one. Yeah, fine. It's

mostly me going, what? Oh my god, what? Oh my god, the entire

time.

Did you see? Dr sleep, no, I'm a chicken. Okay, don't see dr

sleep. I'm absolutely the most scaredy pants person in the

world, so I just don't watch our movies. I apologize. Yeah, no,

that's okay. We don't judge. Cool.

Yeah, I'm

actually wearing Ouija board earrings. Oh my god, that I got

Yeah, for my birthday yesterday, but yeah, which was not

actually, yet I was like, Wait, that's

no.

I did have that moment of sheer terror that I forgot your

birthday though, even though I know I didn't. So thank you for

that. You're welcome

always

so Emily, can you talk a little bit just like, tell us what your

definition of fuck boy is that you have discovered over time,

because it has morphed completely, you know, like, I

started with the sort of like Lady blogosphere, you know,

definition of like guy you don't want to date and that because I

am not hip, I didn't know that, like, fuck boy was a term that,

like, was really popular in African American Vernacular

English prior to, like, it being co opted by the white lady blog

sphere. So I was like, oh, wait a second. Like, let's go back

and completely redefine this. So over time, like a fuck boy of

literature has really gotten to sort of be defined as, like,

it's a melding of the two. So, like, the initial term was,

like, just a really crappy guy that you don't want anything to

do with, and then it turned into, like a guy you don't want

to date. And so it's like those things kind of melded, and then

you have to take into like consideration all this sort of,

like societal

power structures that are involved. So it's like, usually

it's like a guy who was born into massive privilege who,

like, has a major chip on his shoulder, he looks down on

everybody, and he's a really crappy romantic partner. I think

that those are, like the big, sort of, like four touchstones

of what makes a fuckboy in literature. And let me tell you,

they're everywhere. They really are. They really are. I was

like, looking at today's book that I read and going, there,

there's one, and then there's another one, but in a different

way. And this one is certainly a parade. It's a cavalcade of fuck

boys of literature. And like, you know, I people get asked me

all the time, like, when are you going to do fuck boys from like,

Latin American literature or African literature? And I'm just

kind of like, not my place. I'm going to talk about the Western

canon. Yeah, that seems like a whole thing. Yeah. Easy.

Don't want to do. I mean, you already, like, said that fuck

boy was, you know, I just assume now, if I see a new piece of

slang on the internet that it's probably been appropriated.

I'm just kind of like, maybe I should just talk like the total

nerd I am. I just never was. That's what's really inside of

me so hard to like. I still apologize to people. I'm just,

like, I didn't know I should have done more research. I'm

really sorry. Like, I'm the whitest woman that's ever walked

the planet. I'm from Connecticut, like, I really

should have done research before. I'd named my podcast

this. Like, sincere apologies. Like I really should have done

some googling before.

Yeah, it's okay. I mean, I'm not, you know, it's not my place

to be resolved. Obviously, several guests of color as well,

and they're just kind of like, as long as you know now it's

okay.

You have some, there's, there's some fuck ladies of literature

on your podcast too, though, yeah, oh yeah. It is a gender

neutral term. It is just like anybody who plays with power

machinations in order to, like, get ahead and spite people is

generally like part of the fuck boy canon. So are we? Is Amy

March a fuck boy. I personally I'm an Amy March apologist. I

love, yeah, like, with Corrine. Hate saying I'm not gonna, no,

it's fine. It's totally fine. Like, I oh my gosh, I get into

like, tips with people all the time. They're like, What do you

mean? Jane Eyre, and I'm like, I'm sorry.

I have very unpopular literature opinions. But you know, you

have, like, I read lady oddly secret Daisy Buchanan from Great

Gatsby. She's a total fuck boy. There's lady fuck boys all over

the place. Miss Havisham was the episode. What

actually ends up happening, though, is that usually my

guests and I will talk about the lady fuck boys. And then they're

like, but we actually love her, like, I'm sorry, like, she's a

total fuck boy, but you gotta give it to her, right? And then

usually it's like, it's the author who's the fuck boy.

Generally, yeah,

well, I would venture to say that this author that we're

talking about today is not, not, not a fuck boy. He seems like

someone I'd want to hang out with. Oh yeah, definitely, yeah,

definitely. But the Korean what are we talking about? Go ahead.

No, no. Go ahead. I was gonna say because, like, we are gonna

have to touch upon a different writer, you know, much older

writer, definitely, fuck boy.

Oh yeah. And I've got another one to throw in there too that I

founded my research. Do you

want to introduce our topic? Corinne, sure, yeah. Just read

his bio. I assume you mean, well, yeah. And I mean, at least

say the name. Oh, yeah. Okay.

So we're going to be talking about prolific, I would say

horror writer Grady Hendrix, so he writes fiction and he writes

nonfiction. I'm sorry, I'm like, reading this bio, and it's like,

funny, so it says it doesn't, you know, I'm just gonna read it

because it's, it is, it's like, two pages, but you know what?

Yeah, it goes back to our roots. I'll just read, I won't, yeah,

where we just read? Like, article.

Those were the days. All right. Back to that. Let's keep I don't

have any more interviews on the docket. Let's just start talking

done with with professionalism by all of my listeners,

all of our listeners, bang with a lady who hosts a podcast

called fuck boys of literature. Yeah, I think it's gonna be

called hybrid pub Scout goes to hell.

I don't know, like Corinne, you and I can have a brainstorming

session. Yeah? No, I like that. I like that.

All right. So, okay. Grady Hendrix writes fiction, also

called lies, and he writes nonfiction, which people

sometimes accidentally pay him for. He is the author of horror

store, the only novel about a haunted Scandinavian furniture

store you'll ever need. It has been an obvious

All right.

It has been translated into 14 languages and is being turned

into a movie from the people who made quality films like 1917 and

Black Swan. Foolishly, they are paying Grady to write it. He is

busy inserting a whole lot of tutus into it right now. That's

exciting, all right.

I don't remember a ballet from that book, but, oh, wow. We'll

see what happens if anyone can do it. I'm sure he can his novel

my best friend's exorcism, about demonic possession, friendship,

exorcism and the 80s is basically beaches meets The

Exorcist, and it caused the Wall Street Journal to call him,

quote, a national treasure, and received rave reviews from

everyone from carcass to Southern Living. Surprisingly,

this is still not enough.

For him to earn his mother's love,

Southern Living, yes, Southern. He's from South Carolina, so I

think, like, he's right, like, so, yeah, he's probably, like,

a, you know, hometown cried kind of guy, all right? And you still

like him. I do regardless. Yeah, you know, you despite the fact

that he's from the south or very Korean, was traumatized by the

South I was I'm from Connecticut. I get it. Yeah,

all right, refusing to stop trying to prove himself to his

family. He also wrote paperbacks from hell, a history of the

horror paperback boom in the 70s and 80s. It is so popular it won

a Stoker award. And while you may not know what that is. Trust

me when I say that it's a big, big deal that gets Grady 20% off

all purchases at the Franklin

All right. His next novel was we sold our souls, a heavy metal

take on the Faust legend, which hit bookstores in 2018 and got

selected as one of the best books of 2018 by Library Journal

the Chicago Public Library, and finally, his mom, it's

also

one of locusts recommended novels of 2018 and earned him an

article in the LA Review of Books that makes him sound like

some kind of smart person or something. He's not, all right.

His latest novel is the New York Times bestseller, The Southern

book Club's guide to slaying vampires, which is being turned

into a TV series by Amazon right now because they own everything.

Isn't that true? All right, in a surprise twist, this book is

actually about a Southern Vampire getting clubbed to death

with books by the band Slayer. Grady Hendrix used to be a

journalist, which means that he was completely irrelevant and

could be killed and turned into food at any time. He he is one

of the founders of the New York Asian Film Festival, but he is

not response responsible for the bad parts of it. He is also not

Asian. For years, I have something I'm going to throw in

something right now because I was doing research on him. He

has a podcast that he started in May. Oh, cool. And he's doing a

whole series on vampires. And there's an episode about Chinese

vampires, which, like I was, I taught in China for a year in a

college, and they were all learning, like English

literature, and they were reading Dracula, and I was

sitting with my like small group, one of the girls goes, we

don't have vampires like that here. And I was like, Well, what

are your vampires here? Like she goes, they hold their arms out

and they jump, jump, jump.

What are you talking about? And apparently it's this, like,

zombie, vampire hybrid that like can't bend its arm, but its neck

gets really low. Anyway. I'm gonna totally listen to his

episode about it. I don't all I know is they jump, jump, jump.

All right. For years, he was a regular film critic for the New

York Sun, but then it

went out of business. He has written for Playboy magazine,

slate, the village, voice, the New York Post, film, comment and

variety. He has a hard time making up his mind. There is a

science fiction book called occupy space that he is the

author of, and also a fantasy book called Satan loves you,

which he wrote as well, along with his BFF from high school,

Katie crouch. He's the co author of the YA series, the Magnolia

League. He co authored Dirt Candy, a cookbook, the first

graphic novel cookbook in America with his wife and Ryan

Dunleavy lady. It's now in its seventh printing, which means

that at least 24 people have bought his fiction has appeared

in strange horizon pseudo pod and the anthology, the mad

scientist guide to world domination. He is very, very

beautiful, but if you ever meet him, please do not let this make

you uncomfortable. He does not judge. The New Yorker once ran a

short profile of him, and this means that when the time comes

and they are lining people up for the space arcs, he will be

guaranteed a seat ahead of you the end. So that's a great buy.

I wish,

God, I wish every author had that much of a sense of humor

about themselves, like you know, that would make my job a lot

easier. But whatever, apparently also, like he in every book, I

don't, I don't remember this. Maybe I don't know if you have

the book with you, Corinne

in the dedication or acknowledgement, he like, kills

his wife or something. Oh, let me see you said something like,

my wife, Amanda, demands to be killed in every book.

Oh, yeah, because it says, it says, For Amanda, who knows the

reasons why? Asterisk, asterisk. And then at the bottom, it says,

But if she doesn't, I would suggest she have her attorney

consoled, both protective orders filed against her the criminal

complaint, which outlines these reasons in great detail, and

maybe also her conscience, because disclosing the

whereabouts of the bodies will finally bring some kind of

closure for my family.

That's awesome.

Oh, my

God.

She was on an episode of Iron Chef. I literally was obsessed

with her restaurant and the cookbook because I saw her like

Battle Morimoto on an episode of Iron Chef.

I was like, Wait, they're married. That's so cool.

That is very cool. What a world, what a world. Yeah, I was

listening. I don't want to steal the because it's about my best

friend's exorcism, but I don't want to steal this story from

you that I like texted you about before this. Steal it. Yeah, he

wrote the first draft of my best friend's exorcism and was like,

super proud of himself and gave it to her. And she was like,

okay, cool. We'll talk about this later. And then they, like,

got on the subway, and she was like, so I actually it's really

cliche, and I don't think it's very good. He, like, freaked the

fuck out, like, jump, like, left the train. It was like, I'm

getting on the next one

credit. How is it? How is it? Though it's yeah, like I said in

my Instagram review, I give it five out of five pentagrams. It

was really good, really good. It was like, I mean, so it's

basically, it's, I mean, it's true. In his bio, it is like,

beaches meets The Exorcist, where it follows these, like,

high school girls who are best friends, and then one of them

gets possessed, and the other one tries to, like, strike, you

know, like,

not strike, the demon out. What is the word? Thank you, yes.

Cast the demon out of her with the help of, like, an exorcist

who's not really qualified to be an exorcist. But anyway, who is,

who is exactly, that's a good question.

So, but he had no he writes, I will say also, he writes, like,

girls very well, yeah, you know, like, he Yeah. Like, I was kind

of like, because you know how it is when you're reading or a

novel, or any book by a guy and there's a female character, and

you're like, how's this gonna go? You know, so many times it

does not go very well, but he does it really well, really

well. So I was impressed by that. And it's just yeah, like,

I was telling Emily before this again, made me cry. The end of

it like did, and not because I was scared of the exorcism, but

because it's beaches, but it's happened before, because

exactly, and it was very, yeah, it was very much about like, the

strength and the power of, like, female friendship, which is

something very near and dear to my heart. So I felt like that

was a really that was really great, that he sort of, like,

emphasized that so much in the book. And, I mean, the book was

about like, two best friends or whatever, so yeah, but it was, I

don't want to, like, give too much away about it, but, yeah,

it was just, it was fun and it was spooky. It was definitely

more, I mean, it was expect, I guess it's not a YA novel. So it

were a book, so it wouldn't be like Christopher pikish, but

that's kind of like what I was expecting when I started it. But

it's much scarier. I feel like it's much more graphic. It's

much more gruesome,

like stuff happens in that did not happen. Christopher Pike,

books I read,

but, but, yeah, I like recommended wholeheartedly. I'm

so glad I read it. I feel like I need a break from all these,

like, super serious books about current events and everything

right now. And this was, like, filled that space perfectly. So,

yeah, unqualified recommendation. I love it. I

loved it. Yeah, there you go.

He

after his wife told him it sucked. She gave him, like his

her high school diaries, oh, my God.

Like, this is how girls think.

So you can thank her for that. I think, oh my gosh, that's crazy.

Wow, that's cool. I have to admit, the only book of his that

I've read, it was his debut, which was horror store. And, you

know, when it came out, and it was in that format where it

looked exactly like an Ikea catalog. That was just like, I

love the actual like formatting of books and like how people

design books, too. And you know, it's just like, so mind blowing

to me six years ago when it came out that they someone had the

guts and specifically cork, which totally makes sense, like,

to have the just fuck with people's idea of what a book

should look like. So much. And I apologize I should have asked if

I can curse, because really saying fuck boy over.

Yeah, we interviewed Ian dosher, who wrote the the

Shakespeare Star Wars books, the forced death awakened and all

that stuff. And he did it with cork books. And apparently he

just, like, pitched it to them one day, like, out of nowhere,

like, didn't know them, just, like, was like, You know what? I

think would be really fun. They were like, that does sound

really fun? You're right. Oh my gosh. It's like, they just, they

just sound like they hear something that sounds fun. And

go, Okay, let's do it. So cool, cool. I mean, I don't, you know,

aside from the fact that I want to be part of it, I don't know a

whole lot about the publishing industry. And, like, how,

basically, small, smallish imprints get away with stuff

like that. Mm, hmm.

I think that for that one, the George George Lucas's people

came in, like, and gave them money. Yeah, that's a good

point. That's a good point. Yeah, how the other ones do,

though? Because that's expensive. What

do you think of horror stories? Again, like, I'm chicken, so it

scared the living bejesus out of me. And like, you know, I put

myself through college working retail, so I was, you know, it

was so incredibly realistic in every single character and

character type that was there. Because, like, you don't think

of those people as archetypes of stories, but you think, but once

you see like see them in that sort of setting, there are

obviously archetypes of people that you meet when you're

working crappy retail jobs. And it was, I just thought it was

the most ingeniously delightfully terrifying book I'd

ever read.

It was, and it was certainly redolent to fuck. Oh god, yeah.

Oh god, yeah. I mean, you know, it's just because they had this

wonderful

sort of setup in the beginning where there's a character named

Matt who's working in this giant IKEA knockoff. And Matt is, he's

so down on working there, which is like everybody when you work

retail. And he, you know, he makes all these references that

are so familiar now, you know, five years later that, like,

people use of like, oh, this is prison. Oh, this is just like

the corporate overlords are driving you and, like, the first

time I read it, I didn't pick up on any of that that, you know,

this was all going to tie into the haunted bits that are

happening towards them. You know, at the end, because you

get 50% of the way through the book, and then there's a massive

twist, and then it starts getting scary as hell. And so,

you know, it's really, it's foreboding, you know, it's very

like creepy up until about 50% of the way through, and then

it's terrifying. And, like, you don't really, and the first time

I read it, I didn't notice all the threads that he wove

through. And of course, now that I reread it for this show, you

know, five or six years after I read it for the first time, I

was like, oh, god damn, you're just so talented. Like, how dare

you be this funny and be this good at breadcrumbs and be that

talented of a writer, because also, it's hard to write horror,

it is really hard to write horror. And I was like, goddamn

talent.

So it was Matt. Matt also, like,

is is very fuck boyish in a very familiar way, like, like guys

you've dated kind of Yeah, because, like, you know, there's

the archetypes of the people in the store, and they're all like

walking stereotypes, which is really hard to pull off without

making them seem like walking stereotypes. And, you know, and

Matt is doing anything he can to get Trinity, the cute Asian

girl, like, into bed with him. He is just like lying through

his teeth in order to, like, win over the hot girl that everybody

in the who works in the store wants to be with. And it's just

like watching his mats, like machinations and the lies and

his backing up and then reframing things so other people

don't think worse of him, and he's always trying to save face.

And I'm like, oh, especially when you work in large stores,

there's always that guy, like, it's just so wonderfully crafted

of dealing with, like, the high school esque, you know,

personality pushes in a store that's staffed entirely by

adults, you know, And to pull out those sorts of that

pettiness that never leaves you is so just brilliant, especially

in, like, a horror story, you know, sort of background,

because you always think about horror movies, and it's always

like people in high school, or they're young, and they're

college aged, and they're always making stupid decisions, and

then you just, Like, balk when you see like grown adults doing

the exact same thing, and you realize you don't actually ever

grow up. That is actually the key of horror. You never do. You

never do. Oh, poor Ruthann

got the worst spoiler alert.

Ruth Ann got done wrong, and when she was like, Snoopy is

waiting at home on the couch, I was like, fuck you. Fuck you.

You. Grady. Her speech that she gives the main character, Amy.

When Amy is just like, I'm above everything. I hate working here,

like everything is horrible. Like, even though, like my

Italian dad always said to me, when you're hungry, there is no

bad bread. Like no job is beneath you. And Amy's like, I

need to pay my bills. And then Ruth Ann is like, listen, here

you little bitch. Like,

also very familiar, so familiar. There's always that person too.

There's always like, the older woman who's like, you're you

think you're great, don't you?

Wait, just wait.

Yeah, I was just so impressed. And then Matt, like, the bit

where he's, like, trying to impress Amy with how smart he,

like, he's not attracted to her, but he still needs to impress

her, kind of thing. And when he starts talking about the

panopticon, that's like, what set me off? Because, like, I had

a boyfriend who, like, used that to impress me one day, like he's

like, let me explain to you, like Foucault's like, critique

the panopticon. Oh, my God, I'm just like, Jesus Christ. Why I'm

I'm having, like, every early 2000s

liberal arts education can be summed up by the the theories of

Foucault and Derrida. And I'm always just like, Thanks guys,

like

any guy who pulls that out and like casual conversation, I'm

always just like, Ah, yes, you. I see you. Congratulations. I

too happy.

Yeah,

I also like that. But what I did, okay, I do have to give

Grady Hendrix, some good credit on that tip where, like

how he tied in the villains. Like Outlook to it, because I

was recently reading Angela Davis, because I'm pretentious

too,

but she the our prisons obsolete, and she was talking

about, like, the birth of the penitentiary. And she was

talking about how it started from almost like this novelist

point of view, where it's like, this is a redeeming procedure,

like, you go to prison to become a better like, very

you said you haven't read Dostoevsky, right? Or, like,

okay, so like, crime and punishment. Like, spoiler alert,

he gets, I'm shocked at the end, and so he's in jail, or, like,

he's in prison at a work camp. And it just kind of like

explores how he's been, like, spiritually reborn inside of the

work camp. And it's like, this is what people used to think

prison did. I mean, I think the entire concept of this is going

off out into left field, but I'm pretty sure, I feel like the

entire concept of incarceration is forcing a narrative on

someone, you know, it's like this Christian, you know,

Western Christian concept of like, we're going to force you

into redemption, and we're going to force you into sort of like,

a narrative arc where you're going to pay and then be reborn,

and it's just like, No, it's just torture,

yeah, and that's literally, like, what the root of the

message of this book becomes, whereas, like, we we have this

like, evil character who's going to fix everyone, and really, he

just ends up, like, torturing all of them to death.

Oh yeah. I mean, it's so deeply rooted in American Gothic

literature that I didn't quite realize again, like the first

time that I read it, and I was a very bad student, so I didn't

read anything that was assigned to me. And so to just sort of

like, go back now with the education that I'm forcing on

myself while I do this podcast, and just to realize how deeply

seated it is. You know, Grady Hendrix, his work is actually

in, like, historical gothic literature, like is, it's

actually very surprising.

What were you do? You have any like examples in particular that

you saw, I think my immediate recollection is actually Edgar

Allan Poe's mask of the Red Death.

Good old Poe,

the fuck boy in the prison scenario here, like, was

Foucault, though, because I heard someone told me like he

was a pedophile. And I was like, really? And I looked it up, and

apparently, in France, there was some kind of Harper's letter

that a bunch of authors did, including Simone de Beauvoir and

John Paul Sartre signed it as well, and it was about how

having sex with minors is a

liberative process for both parties. Yeah, yeah, no, I knew

that about them, and that's one of the reasons why I don't

really. I always smile and nod when people suggested you

Simone, I'm just like, I don't want to touch that right now.

No,

thank you. I mean, yeah, something to be said for Edgar

Allan Poe, who also married a girl who was 13. Oh, yeah, did

you? Did you look into that whole thing? Because I heard

about it on a different podcast. Like, way more details about it.

I didn't go into massive, massive detail. I mean, like,

his biography is just basically his wife, who was barely 13 and

also consumptive, and he had a massive drinking problem. So put

that all in a cocktail shaker and you get just like massive,

massive abuse. Also, he was massive.

Never particularly well off, and incredibly resentful of his well

off adopted parents who cut him off. It's just like every single

soap opera detail that you could throw into someone's life in

order to make them just like miserable.

I think that he was, I can't remember. It was on a on a

podcast called it's by women, women suspense authors,

unlikable female characters, is the name of it. And, yeah, and

so they were talking about how, like, he knew her when she was a

baby,

and basically, like, bought her from they were technically

impoverished, yeah, yeah. They were, like, removed cousins. Oh

yeah, okay. Cool guy, yeah. I'm just so glad we have a, you

know, funny wife guy writing the horror novels now, seriously,

yeah, that's much better. So like, they're going into Grady

Hendrix, because he's also very active on Twitter. And so, like,

we have to remember, you know, that he didn't exactly have a

normal childhood, if you want to remember that creepy ass story

he told on Twitter a couple months ago.

Do tell. Do tell. Oh, my God. So he, this is how, like, I

realized he was on Twitter because he's not, like, one of

my most favorite authors. So I wasn't like, I need to follow

him. And then, you know, I saw the Twitter feed going around,

and I was like, Oh, I know that name, this explains everything.

And so like, he and his family grew up in like, a relatively,

like new build house, and one day he went down stairs to go

sneak something from the refrigerator when he was a

little kid, and he saw a person eating out of the refrigerator

when he, like, in the middle of the night, and he was like, What

the shit? Because when you're a little kid, like, how else do

you react? Like, that's the scariest thing as an adult. I'm

35 years old, that is the scariest thing I have ever heard

of in my life. And so he told his parents,

and they were like, No, that's not real. You must have just

been thinking it up. Guess what? Parents don't ever say that to a

little kid. Don't ever say that to a little kid. It's a fucking

horror trope.

Okay, it is okay. So now that you say it's a horror trope, I

am going to assume that this is a real story, because I am just

like, could have been made up. I don't know. I'm gonna assume.

Ah, see, I'm, see, this is the fun part about doing this over

zoom, because I normally don't do it with video, and I can see

your faces now. And I'm just

like, I don't know it happened. So like, like, the story

continuing. It was just like, he is positive that there's a

person, like, living in his house and his parents don't

believe him. And then one day, he's saying, there's a funk

coming from his air conditioning deck. And this is the grossest

thing, and everybody can extrapolate where this is going,

but that's okay. And so he's saying, like, there's a funk

coming from the air conditioning unit. Like, what's going on? All

of a sudden there are maggots falling out of his air

conditioning duct, I know. And then he's just like, clearly,

something is wrong here. Fingers crossed. It's just a raccoon.

Mom and Dad go up there, like, go and check it out. And then it

turns out that the guy who was living in his house died in the

air conditioning unit. And like, that was the funk that, like,

was emanating throughout the house. PS, he had also seen eyes

watching him through the air conditioning duct for many

months leading up to this

terrible storytelling skills. But still, that was great. Also,

no, you hear about that kind of stuff all the time and like, it

always ends with and then they the police went up in the attic,

and there was a there was a sleeping bag in the bag of shit,

no, no, or, like a lot, there's a secret crawl space underneath

my bedroom. Like, no, no, yeah, yeah. There's a reason. There's

a shitload of boxes on the door to the crawl space in my closet.

Oh,

my Yeah. So I'm just like, okay, no wonder you're a horror

writer. That makes sense. Yeah? One thing leads to another.

Yeah, yeah. As as the Italians say, uh, say, No, a Baro e

buenovado.

If it's not true, it's still a good story.

I never heard I said it wrong. That's wonderful. Yeah,

I love Twitter. I love Twitter's horror stories so much. That's

something Corrine and I like to send each other when we find

that that is true, that is true. Corinne was obsessed with Dear

David for a long time. Really.

That is, what is that? Oh, oh, well,

I'm trying to remember, I put a link in the in the doc. I was

gonna say, thank you for doing that, because it's been long as

long time since I I think that you are especially scared of it

because the cat, the cat factor like, oh, yeah, that's true.

There's a lot of cat action. There is a lot of cat action.

And I remember, at the time I lived alone too, and that also

did not go, yeah, sit well with me. So see, I grew up, I feel, I

tell everybody I grew up in a haunted house, like my house had

legit ghosts. So yeah, you know, I'm an absolute weirdo. I

totally believe in ghosts, like I but same I will take ghosts

over corporeal, actual, creepy humans, like any day of the

week. Yeah, same, those can't hurt you. They can't do

anything. Well, they can make you hurt yourself. But that

doesn't

that's neither here nor there.

My ghosts never came after me, like they were just really

interested in the computer, and they would, like, lurk behind me

while I was, like, writing papers and stuff, and my mom and

I see them. You can feel them, you know when you can feel

someone looking at you, yeah.

Did you ever see anything like my house was laid out in a very

funny way, because it was like a 1920s like, farmhouse,

yeah.

So actually, like, two houses that I lived in when I was a kid

were haunted. The house that I lived in most of the time was in

Connecticut, and that one, when you walked into the back door,

you could see out of the corner of your eye like the living

room, and you would always see someone walk through the living

room, like every time you walked into the house, you would just

see movement into the living room, and then, like when I

walked up the stairs, I could always see an orb move into my

brother's room. Whoa. I don't think I could cope. I don't

think I could cope with that. You're like, scared of horror

movies, and I love them, and then I've never seen a ghost,

but you're like, whatever. It's just the orb, the floating orb

that looks in my watch out room, just another day with the orb.

Don't walk upstairs too fast. You might hit the orb. Well, the

second house that I grew up, that I lived in when I was kid,

that was a haunted actually, the ghost used to steal things. Oh,

that's that. Isn't that like Poltergeist, yeah. And

especially because they used to steal knives. Oh, wow, that's

worrying, yeah. And then you just go, guys, like, I need

that. Like, I'm doing something here. And you turn around and

turn back, and it would be back where you left it. Oh, wow. So

they were just kind of like, it was

like living with Puck, you know what I mean, like,

trickster gods,

lots of tiptoeing, yeah, exactly.

Yeah. One of my best friends who lived in California near, like,

Yosemite, she swears that she also grew up in a super haunted

house. And, like, it was the kind of thing where it was, like

malicious haunting, where it was like things would fly off the

shelves and like, cupboards would slam and like, really,

like, the shit you see in the movies and stuff like that, so,

and I completely believe her, but yeah, it's just really, it's

not, yeah, that happened to my mom. She was living in an

apartment on Long Island, yeah, and like, she was having a

dinner party, and, like, the bowl of salad just lifted up off

the counter, moved over two feet and smashed to the ground. And

she was like, Okay. Like,

holy guys. Like, immediately move. She stayed there for

years. Oh, wow, good for her. Yeah, I guess it's like,

whenever I see those movies and that, you know, you're always

like, Get out of there, go move somewhere else. I'm like, Yeah,

that's expenses,

security, deposit. What are you going to tell people?

Break your leaves that couch can't leave. It's too big for

the doorway. What are you going to do? You

just reason with them?

Can you just be nice? Exactly? Yeah, but you can't. Can't

always send them back. Like, you can't teach a ghost your job?

Yeah, that's true. Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh man, it's so funny,

because, like, I am just not into horror as a genre at all.

Like, I believe in ghosts. I totally understand, like,

witchcraft and like wanting to be close, you know, commune with

nature and stuff like that. I just can't do the scary. I just

can't do scary.

Yeah, I don't know what it is, because I was, I was a huge

scaredy cat as a kid, like, scared of everything, and I grew

up, and then suddenly I just couldn't get enough of it. Yeah,

and I've heard that happening to other people before, so there's

got to be some psychological reason for it. I feel like I was

the same way. And I think a lot of the reason that horror movies

appeal to me also is because I was raised Catholic. So I'm

like, even though I'm also terrified, of, like, I've seen

the exorcist once, I am never watching it again. Like I

thought when I was 20 and I had to sleep the light on for like,

a month.

So I'm not putting myself through that again. But like,

anything that is about demon possession or about the devil,

even though I'm not Catholic anymore, it's just like, it's

too much and I can't handle it. But like all the other shit, I'm

like, that's fine, zombies, serial killers, yes, yes, yes.

Like, give me more. That's fine. But I was raised Catholic too,

and I feel like one of the reasons why, like, I like, weird

stuff is because Catholic, Catholicism is a deeply creepy

religion, oh yeah, so weird. And so it's like, it's witchy as all

get out. And so, like, I'm more comfortable with talking about,

like, Oh yeah, you know that guy's head got chopped off, and

then he walked around with it for a little while. Like, did

that. There was a whole bunch of them. I just did a whole like,

Patreon thing on it today, and I was just like, No, conveniently,

it was thinking about people who walked around carrying their own

separate heads just in time. But like you do, miraculously weird

religion and so, like, and it's all witchy is all get out so,

like, I am okay with weird. But for some reason, if there's

like, like, I watched the descent once, and like, no, no,

no, that was that scary, scariest thing I've ever seen in

my life. Like I was never going to ever go spelunking, ever.

It's not a good movie for a not horror movie person. That's

like, that is when I tell you to steer clear.

See, but I thought the Exorcist was hilarious, really? Yeah, I

think it's been washy, is it? Maybe, if I wash it again now, I

handle it. I think you it might, it might close some loops for

Yeah, because I'm further away from, like, my Catholicism now

than I was, yeah, it's like, and also, just like, being totally

spoiled as, like a modern movie consumer, like, the effects are

just laughable, like, you know, just, yeah, same thing kind of

with the shining, but the shining is slightly different,

because that's a little more human, yeah, yeah, yeah,

especially the book, yes. Lee, yeah, yeah. Um, did you read The

Exorcist? No, I haven't read the exorcist book, but I read the

shine. It was one of my favorites when I was younger. I

read it around the same time I watched the movie. I was like,

oh, there's a book of this too. I'm gonna read the book.

And

I don't know it was very similar, but it was a lot more

like it was, you know, the he was, he was a priest, yeah?

Like, he believed everything he was writing, yeah, yeah, right,

yeah, it was really important to him, so lots of detail, pretty

scary, yeah. And I gotta tell you my reading The Exorcist

story, yeah, that I always tell is like I was reading it during

Christmas break, and I fell asleep in my mom's bed. One

more, yeah, I know, right. And, and there was, I woke up to the

bed shaking. Oh, that's right, he told me. And I like, I just,

you know, I guess that was when I came out of my scaredy cat

phase. Because all I thought was, Are you fucking kidding me

right now?

And my mom, because I'm from California, and my mom, comes to

the door, and she goes earthquake, like, get out of

fucking bed. I was

like, Oh no.

Oh good.

I'm not being targeted. Natural phenomenon for

reading this book. Demons aren't mad at me for it. Well, I was

listening to that podcast you sent me with Grady Hendricks on

it, the wired one earlier, and he was saying how, like, The

Exorcist is scary, because, yeah, like, he believes in all

those things. Like he believes in God, he believes in the

devil, he believes that there are, like, demons that possess

you. And that's like, why it's so scary. And it's just like,

who wrote it? Not Grady Hendrix, yeah, William, sorry, William, I

was gonna find that one a little bit difficult. Yeah. No, no, no

Hendricks card carrying.

But he was also saying, like, that's why so many of the modern

exorcism movies are way less scary. Is because you can tell

the people making them are like, Oh, well, this is bullshit. I

don't believe in that's a really good point, you know? Yeah. So,

yeah, yeah. So, anyway, I just thought that was interesting. He

was also talking on that panel, or whatever it was,

group, group discussion. Yeah. Paul Trembley, who is a really

good horror author, who is one of my favorites. I don't know if

you've read either of his books. Emily, nope. Sorry. They're

scary and they're good horror writing, which is not always the

easiest thing to know, it's really hard. And that's actually

something that I was realizing, like, Oh, I was reading stamping

Stephen King for the first time. Because

everybody, you know, after I did my episode on the shining

everybody was like, did you read this one? Did you read this one?

And I was like, No, I have not. But also, like, Stephen King is

hit or miss, because, like, it's really hard to write. And I

would say that, like, a lot of the ones that people were

telling me to read were actually more like fantasy novels or like

mystery suspense with like, a slight sci fi or horror twinge

to it, and not necessarily, like straight up, what I would define

as, like straight up horror. Yeah,

it's a Yeah.

It's, it's hard to differentiate. And that's one of

those ongoing arguments with fans, is, like, is it horror, or

is it suspense? Oh, you're just calling it suspense for clout.

Or, like, that's not really horror, that's a thriller. Like,

how dare you it's just this very like hairpin argument. It's

really annoying. Speaking of two people who do a podcast about

publishing, that is the hardest part about pitching your goddamn

book. Oh, especially you with the mystery like that must not.

It's a cozy No, like it's just mystery.

Oh, in that case, no, I simplified it for myself. I'm

not that smart,

smart enough to know not to do that? Yeah, exactly

No. It's just a straight up detective novel. It is a cozy

mystery. I like a ring what's the what's the gimmick? She's a

1950s girl, detective. Oh,

my mom was I'm always scared when I say something about my

mom, because, like, she sends me letters

but I grew up with her reading like, cozy after cozy after cozy

after cozy. And

I would often like, we'd get home from the library and I'd

like look through her stack and hold one up and be like, you

read this already.

That's okay. They're great.

She likes the

erlene Fowler, who did the quilts once was I met her, and

she wears purple cowboy boots. Oh, cool.

I bet Grady Hendrix wears purple cowboy boots. Probably does real

smart looking. Yep, I do have to say, though, like you, I feel

like you have to be from certain parts of the country to write

really convincing horror, and South Carolina is one of them.

Yes, for sure, yeah, yeah. I think I feel like the South in

particular is like a hotbed for this stuff, and it breathes, it

just like comes from its pores, you know, like, yeah, I have a

friend from Alabama, and he and I were talking about it, and I

was like, I love Southern Gothic, like I am a Yankee,

through and through. And Southern Gothic is one of my

favorite genres of literature, because there's so much guilt in

the south, and it's a different kind of guilt that you get from

Yankees, and it's just the way that Southern writers write

about their because Gothic, Gothic literature isn't scary.

It's about feelings. It's about the oppressive feelings that you

have about whatever's happening. And usually in the south, it's

about slavery. And it's just this really brilliant way that

they genre of literature that they have to tackling their

history and the things that the country puts on them. And that's

one of the reasons why I actually love Poe so much, is

because, like, he does have that north south divide really well.

Because, like, he's from Baltimore, which, like, when

you're a Yankee, you totally consider the south. And then,

like, he had spent so much time in Boston, where he must have

been treated like absolute crap, because Yankees are like that.

We totally are. And so like to watch Poe in his very short sort

of career that he had grapple with the money, the

southernness, the northernness, the brokeness, the, you know,

his alcoholism and stuff like that. He's just this really,

truly dynamic writer that I think, like encompasses America

more than a lot of other writers that we actually have.

Oh, wow, yeah, interesting. Then all of the all of the ugly

parts. Oh yeah, no, it yeah,

all the ugliest parts, like wrapped up into one. Oh, is

Dirksen, like one of those hashtag problematic faves, like

not a good person, but you know, he died early enough that

hopefully he didn't do too much damage to people. Yeah,

something thought, Well, I mean, not until his wife died. She

died at like 25 so she spent like over half her life married

to him. Whoa, if you can find that episode of of unlike, well,

female characters, they read a poem she wrote, and it is fucked

up.

I should have looked it up. But, like, it's, it's really cool.

It's like, whoa. She's talking about dying.

So

creepy. I mean, like, if you read Annabelle Lee, like knowing

what you know about him, and you're just like, Oh, wow. You

all really needed some major post 1970s therapy, and you just

were never going to get it. It's heartbreaking, really. Yeah, and

meds, honestly, oh yeah, no lie, and

someone to keep him away from alcohol. Because, like,

apparently he was like, a really fun dude when he wasn't

drinking. Except, yeah, oh yeah, apparently he was super kind

like and really normal. But the second he had like one drink in

him, like everybody wrote that he just, like, turned into an

absolute raping monster. That's.

Heartbreaking. Yeah, that's really sad. Yeah, yeah.

Somebody, I heard someone else talking about how he died, like,

he died face down in a gutter. But like, there was some,

there was some practice where they they would, like, take

people off the street during elections and, like, force them

to, like, go and vote and re vote. And it was like a voter

fraud thing. And someone theorized that that was what

happened to him.

He got, just got, like, the shit beat out of him, and these

people making him vote repeatedly. Yeah, I heard

recently someone like, was, like, positing that it was a mob

hit. Oh, yeah. So yeah, it's a weird death. It's a totally

creepy death. Like, it's a totally weird death. And like,

he died, did he die in Boston or Baltimore? I don't remember.

I don't it's like, I have computers sitting in front of

me. I can tell you. I mean, you could look it up, I guess.

Yeah. But like, I know in Boston because I lived there for a

little while, there's a big Oh, he died in Baltimore, but he was

born in Boston, um, oh, and so, like, um, there's a big plaque,

actually, like, on the building where he lived and was born. And

it's like, a girl and Poe was here, and it was right by my

college.

Just like, hey every time,

sorry about your face, exactly, go with it. Poor Edgar,

oh, man. I also feel like the kind of the the base of horror

that is, like, built on by everyone else. I am, like,

making up this theory right on the spot, but all of the fun

horror authors that I know of now, you know, like great

Hendrix, Paul Trembley, like who are generally, like cool people,

their work is derivative of all these other people. And so when

we look back in history at like, po and Mary Shelley and fucking

HP lovers, oh god, I've got so much the other day for talking

about terrible writer, terrible writer, terrible person, but I

mean, came up with these crazy ideas. And so there's all of

these people who, like, were extremely tortured, who came up

with the stuff, and now everyone else is like, yay. We're having

fun with your stuff.

Sorry about your brain. Yeah, I have such an easier time with

people being like, listen, Edgar Allan Poe was, like, afflicted

by demons of varying kinds. But like, HB Lovecraft was a

conscious racist. You know what I mean? Like, and he embarrassed

people

continuously. You know, I feel very like Hannah Gadsby, of like

that was a decision.

He chose to believe and write those things. Edgar, Allan Poe,

mental illness, addiction issues, all sorts of abandonment

issues. Totally get it. None of that. He chose

HP, Lovecraft. He chose that. I'm sorry. He went like he lost

his mind because he was so racist, like he was so scared of

not white people, that he lost his mind.

IRL,

okay, it seems familiar now. Like,

Well, that's true, but oh my god, he could have just been

scared of not white people, like, yeah, and it's not even a

Oh. He was a product of his time, because, like, other

people in literary circles were like, yeah, he's really crazy.

Yeah, when people in like, the late 1800s think you're racist,

you're real goddamn racist, yeah, yeah, that's pretty bad.

Yeah. And I know that I don't know if you read, sorry, go

ahead, I was gonna say I don't know if you read urban fantasy,

but NK Jemisin, new book is the city we became, yeah, has, like,

has all the Lovecraftian monsters, and they're all

racist.

All of the Lovecraft characters and monsters are white

supremacy. Do that. I don't know why you would pull from him. You

know what I mean Exactly? That's my own personal feelings, and I

know I'm not part of like, the horror community. So everybody's

always like, you can't critique it if you're not part of the

community. And I'm just like, Wait, people got people got mad

at you for saying, God,

oh my god. So what's the angriest like, or the angriest

comments you've gotten like from which episode that you've done?

David Foster Wallace, oh yeah, that makes sense. That was gonna

be my guess. Yeah. Also weirdly Franny and Zoe by Jay zelinger,

oh yeah. I mean, is that weird?

Wait, did you not get it for Holden Caulfield, either? I

mean, I can.

Little bit for Holden Caulfield, but I'm actually, like, it's

actually because my episode on Holden Caulfield is actually

incredibly sympathetic towards him, and people do not like

that, yeah, because, like, if you you can read it, that Holden

was a victim of sexual abuse, and so, like, there's bread, oh,

yeah, you can't get there's bread crumbs there. And so,

like, you know, and also, it's written in the 1950s so he's

never going to come out and say, like, you know, tech Julie, that

this is what happened, but there's breadcrumbs there. And

so that's how my friend and I read it and we discussed it, and

people get very mad that you want to give him any compassion,

but weirdly, framing and Zoe gets a lot of hate mail because

my friend and I, who discussed it, he's a huge JD Salinger fan.

We're both atheists. And so everybody was like, this is such

a an incredibly religious book. How can you even remotely

understand it or like, like it if you're an atheist, and I'm

just like, okay, it is yeah, sorry,

yeah, people can like things, yeah, it's okay, yeah.

I mean, I might judge people for it, but that's their business.

If you want to have a constructive conversation about

something, I'm more than happy to have that conversation with

you. It's just like. You can't just be like, but like,

the disc, screen grab the YouTube comments and actually

keep them in a folder on my

on my desk is the folder called discourse.

Like I keep threatening to do a dramatic reading of all my

hateful YouTube comments. You can do that. Some of them are

really good. Do that for your Patreon.

Do we're the top tier of your Patreon 20 years, but it's gonna

be really fun.

We did that. We did acting last time with the

with the Shakespeare thing with, Oh, he did make Trump.

Yeah, I'm gonna put you on mute for just a second, because I

totally swallowed my water, wrong? Oh, no, guys, hold on.

Oh, man, Corinne, did you find the Dear David stuff? Oh, I did,

yes. Do you want me to read that? Sorry, I kind of do. Emily

doesn't know about it. We're gonna bless your timeline, yeah.

Do you want me to read all the tweets? Or, like, just read the

article. What do you think? Well, just use it to, like,

remind yourself, okay, like, just tell us the story of the

scary, scary. Yeah. Well, Emily, you're gonna have to, you're

gonna have to help me, because I know it was, like, a couple

years ago, so I for sure don't remember everything. So it's

just like, this guy who was

a an illustrator, Adam Ellis, yeah, I don't know. Is he in is

he in San Francisco? I thought he was in New York. It's

probably New York. Everybody thinks so. Yeah.

So he had this dream about Dear David, which, I don't know why

he called it that, but that's fine. Where, like, if you have a

nightmare and you he had like a little girl in his dream come up

to him, be like, he's gonna come in and talk to you. And you can

ask him two questions, but if you ask him a third question,

you die.

And so he asked him three questions, and so the rest of

the Twitter thread is basically like, here are my cats standing

at the door, staring at the door. They do this at midnight

every night. And he had video, yeah, yeah. And he had, like,

he had like, one thing where a chair was moving, and then he

had, like, at the end, he has pictures of it, basically, I'll

send it to you. It's so scary,

yeah, they'll post it. Yeah, it's great, but lots of good cat

content, yeah, that's true. That feels very bothered like I

don't, yeah, yeah. I think image I loved, by the way, talk about

scary movie that I freaking word The Babadook. That's the

Babadook here. So are there any other scary movies that you

adored, just that one, just that one, probably, off the top of my

head, that's an adorable ending

than it is, like the scary creature that's living, you

know, and like the horrors of being a single mom and like, you

know, dealing with the fact that You have these terrible emotions

towards your kid, and, you know, it's a lot more complicated than

just like critter lurking in your your basement, right? Oh,

I mean, hereditary is about grief too. Yeah,

nope,

yeah,

yeah. We were kind of, when I was doing looking around stuff

about Grady Hendrix. I He was part of, I believe, the American

Institute of Psychical Research. I don't know if you know about

those

they, I believe they started in English with the spiritual or in

England with the spiritualist. That's cool. And so.

He was a librarian for them, and he just knows everything about

demons. So we current and I watched, we virtual watch

Satanic Panic together.

It was great. Yeah, it was, but it has couple demons in it. And

then, like, I found this article, and he's just talking

about, oh, he's like, Oh, Paymon is like, really cool, this and

this, and then he's like, as a sale is awesome, and

naming all of these demons. And I'm like, he's so cool.

Be his friend. Imagine being a librarian,

awesome Institute. I love that demons are consistent

characters. Like, they're, they're, there's like, a set

number of them, and they're just like, Yep, it's that particular

demon in this story. They never like, yeah. They're like

elements, like, you know, it's just like, hydrogen, zazel, you

know, it's just, right, right? Well, and then sometimes they

call them archangels, you know, yeah, yeah. So it's it, I don't

know. I want to learn more. It's fascinating. Yeah, well, in my

best friend's exorcism, the demon that possesses one of the

friends is named Andres, I think, and there's, like, this

whole backstory about him, and, like, what his place in hell

was. And, you know, it's all this, like, very, it's funny,

because it's such, like, biblical language, of like, it's

just so, like,

extravagant and ridiculous, and just like you were the, oh, God,

I wish I could find that. I'm gonna put you guys, speak, talk

to yourselves. I'm gonna find the passage because it was

really funny. Is the perfect way to describe it? It is you have

to build this world that, if you're an atheist like me, you

don't think exists, and yeah, much canon that you have to

build into it. And it's just like, that's an incredible

amount of work in order to do that,

yeah? And just like, cultural knowledge, broader cultural

knowledge, to, like, learn anything about, you know,

ceremonial magic or something, you have to learn all about

Cabal, yeah? And it's like, Okay, let me just go do that

real quick. Yeah, I mean, like, I noticed when I was going back

and reading po for this too. It's just like, his scary

stories are super short. They're like, there's not, like, a whole

lot there, you know, they're just sketches by modern you

know, definition of like, there's not really a huge plot

arc, and like, there's not usually a whole lot of character

change. It's just like a very brief scene of something spooky

and like, you know, I don't think people get, you can't get

away with that anymore. Like, I mean, you can with short film.

That's true.

Actually, I would, I would, I would push back a little bit on

that and say that that is one of the ideal forms of horror. Is,

like extremely short form horror, because it leaves so

much to your imagination.

Um, there's this one that I'm thinking of, and this is the

perfect example, because they would take a short horror film

that people, you know, enter into

competitions, and then people will try to extend them into

movies, and they're terrible. Usually, there was the lights

out. Was one where they basically somebody standing in a

hallway, and every time they turn the light back on, the

thing is, like, closer to my husband, try to make a whole

movie. Yeah, then they made a whole movie, and it's like, you

don't need to make a whole movie because it's scary.

So yeah, and I would say one of the best places to find really

scary stuff is Reddit that now, like, yeah, and those are all

pretty short. I mean, a lot of them, yeah, come into these

multi, multi series stuff. But we, yeah, one of our episodes,

our Halloween episodes, was, like, about creepypasta,

yeah. People just love the short form, yeah, like, when they have

those Reddit threads of, like, creepy shit my kid has said, and

I'm always just like, Oh, those are nope,

no, can't do it.

But also, like, Hollywood is passionately remaking, like

other cultures, horror movies, which I find fascinating.

I mean, yeah, I remember, like, the Japanese like J horror was

really big, like 20, yeah.

But now they're doing, like, a lot of, like, Mexican horror

movies and like that is super cool to me. Not gonna watch

them. Love the concept.

I don't know about this. So I'm, uh, clearly, like, I have a

shutter subscription, I would know, but I should know better.

So,

okay, I found, I found to Andres, this thing here. Okay,

so Andres is the 63rd entity in the lesser Key of Solomon, a

Grand Marquis of hell and commander of 30 legions of

demons known as the sower of discord and bringer of ruin. Is

that amazing? Anyway, I put that on a diamonds in the lesser Key

of Solomon too. Yeah,

sower of discord, so we're of discord and ruin. Just imagine

like scattering bird seed. Yeah?

Yeah,

yeah. Well, I mean, it's been an hour, yeah.

Should we wrap it totally Emily, do you want to, do you want to,

like, plug things? Oh, sure, yeah. I'm Emily Edwards. I'm the

host of fuck boys elite. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram

and most major platforms. At fuck boys of lit, that's B, O, i

s, or@fuckboysoflit.com

if you want to find my personal musings and ridiculousness, it's

ms, Emily Edwards. So Ms, Emily Edwards and I lurk on Twitter

basically all day. So it's almost like texting me if you

reply, maybe I'm always there.

Emily and Corinne. How can we keep in contact with you and

your work?

You can find us online, hybrid pubscout.com,

Facebook, hybrid pub Scout, Twitter at hybrid pub scout and

Instagram at hybrid pub Scout, pod and yeah on all podcast

platforms as well.

Thank you, Emily, yeah, thank you. This was so much fun,

and thanks for giving a rip about books. You.

You.