Shownotes
Madison is best known for being a college town and the state capital of Wisconsin.
It's usually characterized by raucous crowds at Camp Randall, its lakes, reveling on State Street, and the picturesque backdrops of photo-ops like the Capitol Building, the Monona Terrace, the Union Terrace, and Bascom Hill.
But, few know that Madison was the setting for a string of unsolved murders not too long ago.
"The Mad City Murders" or "Capital City Killings" spanned fourteen bloody years from 1968 to 1982.
Mike and Jeff take a deep dive into the string of murders and speculate who might be responsible and what set off the phenomenon.
Sources:
Mad City: The True Story of the Campus Murders That America Forgot by Michael Arntfield
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- FBI - Serial Murder
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- How Lead Caused America's Violent Crime Epidemic
- Wisconsin Homicides Up Over Last Decade
- Evidence lost in at least 4 Dane County cold cases | Local News | captimes.com
- Portage County officials rule Janet Raasch's 1984 death accidental
- Kelly Nolan family offers new reward in unsolved murder case
- What to know about Diane Olkwitz, Terri Lee Erdmann cold case murders
- Wisconsin’s Capital City Killings
- Stabbed, beaten, garroted and two gloves shoved down her throat: University murder is 'solved' 50 years on as expert suggests there were more victims
Wisconsin Rapids native, Jeff Finup is the mind behind Badgerland Legends, which explores Wisconsin's mysteries and fascinating history, a post at a time. Legends, lore, history, cryptids ,and more from the Badger State. Find his work on Instagram and Facebook.
Mike Huberty, hailing from the town of Big Bend, near Milwaukee, is the owner of American Ghost Walks, a haunted history tour company with locations in Maine, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and started in our very own Badger State of Wisconsin - with tours in Lake Geneva, Milwaukee, Madison, Waukesha, Bayfield, and the Wisconsin Dells. Find out more at AmericanGhostWalks.Com.
Transcripts
Wisconsin, a paranormal paradise with lake
Speaker:monsters, dogmen, haunted hotels, famous ghosts, and
Speaker:deadly killers. It's a lot more than just America's
Speaker:dairyman. It's time for a deep dive into the weird,
Speaker:wonderful, and terrifying that's lying just below the surface of
Speaker:reality. From American Ghost Walks and Badgerland
Speaker:legends, this is the Wisconsin Legends podcast.
Speaker:It's not only a place seated along a picturesque isthmus and
Speaker:circumscribed by 4 lakes when viewed on a map from above, But also
Speaker:a place shunted squarely in the mouth of madness once you're actually on the
Speaker:ground. As time and space battle it out, Madison is a city
Speaker:surrounded by reality on all sides yet still defined by a certain
Speaker:surrealism. It is, in fact, less a physical place
Speaker:as much as an idea or metaphysical construct of that same place.
Speaker:It's an abstraction of America and the requisite American dream while at
Speaker:the same time, curiously enough, serving as the state capital.
Speaker:Bureaucracy, fantasy, and a conceptual anarchy all occupy the same
Speaker:real estate that was an unlikely urban center to begin with,
Speaker:19th century swampland in both the literal and figurative sense
Speaker:bought for a song by a federal judge in 18/29. The capital
Speaker:city was thus, in some sense, Always destined to be the
Speaker:mad city and then some. That's
Speaker:from Mad City, the True Story of the Campus Murderers That America
Speaker:Forgot By Michael Hartfield. I am Mike Huberty
Speaker:from American Ghost Walks, and I'm here with Jeff Finnop of
Speaker:Badgerland Legends. Now after you read that, Mike, I'm happy I live in the
Speaker:suburbs. Right. Then I and, you know, and I'm right on the east
Speaker:side here. So I guess I I'm in the the center of the
Speaker:conceptual anarchy. Well, today on Wisconsin Legends podcast,
Speaker:we're gonna talk about a series of murders
Speaker:That happened here in Dane County and Madison specifically
Speaker:starting in the late 19 sixties that I didn't even know about
Speaker:till a few years ago. Well, the thing about Madison is it's
Speaker:known to be a safe city. Right. Kind of has a small town
Speaker:vibe. It's a college place. But what not a lot of people
Speaker:realize is that it's a very transient city.
Speaker:Everybody I know here didn't grow up here, And it seems like
Speaker:everybody that grew up in Madison, they usually go off to bigger
Speaker:places. It's an interesting mix. And you have so many students that come in for
Speaker:a few years at a time too. You got people coming in for school. You
Speaker:have people that work in the tech sector like Epic. They'll be in and they'll
Speaker:be out within 10 years. Doesn't seem like a lot of people plant roots
Speaker:here, and that might be behind some of this.
Speaker:It definitely might Be one of the reasons that people do not think about
Speaker:the capital city killings probably as much as they would in another place,
Speaker:even though they're easily the most famous series of
Speaker:unsolved murders here in Madison. And it's one of
Speaker:the you don't wanna say greatest hits of of true
Speaker:crime, But it's made greatest shames because it is
Speaker:this string of unsolved murders that happened in the small towns of
Speaker:Madison. So when you compare it To other cities and the clearance rate
Speaker:of the murders, it's really bad on the batting average. Yeah.
Speaker:And with a name like capital city killings Or mad city murders? You
Speaker:think it would get a lot more national attention? Well, we're doing our best to
Speaker:help with that today. Alright. We're gonna get it on the map. Between
Speaker:1968 and 1984, the University of Wisconsin in Madison
Speaker:was a site of a series of brutal murders that left 8 young women
Speaker:dead. The killer was never caught and the crimes remain unsolved.
Speaker:Let's talk about the first victim, Christine Rothschild.
Speaker:She enters university in 1967 after graduating with honors
Speaker:in Chicago, Illinois. On a dreary May evening in
Speaker:1968, A male student discovers her body
Speaker:hidden behind some shrubbery outside of Sterling Hall, a
Speaker:mathematics building located on North Charter Street.
Speaker:Sterling Hall would later become famous in 1970 because it
Speaker:was the site of the Sterling Hall bombing, the New Year's
Speaker:gang that bombed it and killed somebody when they were trying to
Speaker:protest Vietnam War. Mhmm. That's its own Wisconsin legends.
Speaker:The Chicago Tribune, Chicago, Illinois, 29th May
Speaker:1968. This is their story about Christine Rothschild. She had been stabbed
Speaker:14 times And a piece of cloth was knotted around her
Speaker:neck. Her leather gloves had been placed in her mouth, apparently, to
Speaker:prevent her from crying out, officials said. A resident of the dormitory
Speaker:reported seeing miss Rothschild at 6 AM in the dorm, and
Speaker:2 students said that they thought they saw her near Sterling Hall at about 10
Speaker:AM. The coroner said an autopsy showed that miss Rothschild had eaten
Speaker:a large breakfast before she was killed. Police were making queries at
Speaker:restaurants to determine whether she was seen in a restaurant before her death. It
Speaker:is believed that she could not have eaten the breakfast in the dormitory.
Speaker:Among the clues And this is in the newspaper. They spell
Speaker:clues c l e w s. I've seen, historical
Speaker:spellings of clues as c l e w s. So I don't know when that
Speaker:changed, But that's interesting. Right. This is just 1968 in the
Speaker:tribute. Among the clues in the hands of the police are a number
Speaker:of knives and surgical blades found near the body.
Speaker:These have been sent to FBI laboratories to determine whether one of them was the
Speaker:fatal weapon. A meeting involving university, city, and county officials
Speaker:is scheduled for 3:30 PM tomorrow to discuss a recent upsurge
Speaker:in crime on the hilly, heavily wooded edges of the campus.
Speaker:40 coeds have been attacked since last September, most in recent
Speaker:weeks. Now this article, it goes into the Christine Rothschild murder,
Speaker:and that's interesting to the people of Chicago because
Speaker:Christine Rothschild is from a wealthy Chicago family. She is
Speaker:a a beautiful girl. She was a model in, You know, Sears
Speaker:catalogs stuff? She's not necessarily famous, but she's considered one of the upper
Speaker:class of Chicago. Sure. In fact, Her parents thought of
Speaker:the University of Wisconsin as the safe choice for her. Compared to what
Speaker:we know about Chicago, at least in modern day, it seems like Madison is
Speaker:Just eons more safe than Chicago. Or she wants to
Speaker:go to college in New York City, like these big cities.
Speaker:Mhmm. Her parents like, well, you'll be much safer In Madison,
Speaker:this quiet college state capital Wisconsin town.
Speaker:Yeah. And that's where she gets murdered. The tribunes interested in her death, Chicago Tribune.
Speaker:They normally wouldn't just cover a murder in Madison. You know, it would have
Speaker:to be something related to the people of Chicago and a wealthy Chicago family. Interestingly
Speaker:enough, while Today, we connect the Capitol City killings with
Speaker:other murders that happened in Madison. Back in 1968,
Speaker:the Chicago Tribune is trying to connect it The 3 other murders
Speaker:that happened in southeast Wisconsin and Chicago. And and they say, could this be
Speaker:connected, this Rothschild murder? Because It seems
Speaker:like the murderer had picked the daughter of a wealthy Chicago family.
Speaker:Could it be connected to these others? And here are some of the others. And
Speaker:I'd never heard about these Murders before because I only heard about
Speaker:stuff that happened in Madison. This is a famous murder that happened in Chicago, and
Speaker:they were wondering if it could be connected. Percy killing the 40 year file.
Speaker:This is by Chuck Goldie, WLS News. So this is written on the
Speaker:40th anniversary of this murder. Sharon Percy Rockefeller
Speaker:still tries to comprehend the nightmare she was awakened by on the morning of September
Speaker:8, 1966. Inside her family's sprawling mansion
Speaker:perched above the beach on Lake Michigan, her twin sister, Valerie, lay
Speaker:dying. It wasn't possible. I didn't know what people were talking about, said
Speaker:Sharon. The last time I saw her was midnight, and I had returned her raincoat
Speaker:to a closet which belonged to her in her bedroom, and she was already asleep.
Speaker:I said good night, Val, and she murmured good night. I mean, she heard me
Speaker:and then around 5 o'clock, the tragedy happened. Tragedy began when someone
Speaker:used a glass cutter on the Percy backdoor and found his way
Speaker:to Valerie's 2nd floor room. She was stabbed and beaten to death. 21
Speaker:year old Valerie Gian Percy had graduated from Cornell that summer and was
Speaker:2 days away From postgraduate studies at John Hopkins University.
Speaker:In the days leading up to her murder, she was campaigning alongside her father. Her
Speaker:father was running for senator. So this is a wealthy Chicago family as
Speaker:well as her father's campaigning in 1966 to be the senator
Speaker:from Illinois. Val was going downtown all summer, so she was riding the
Speaker:l, That's the elevated train in downtown Chicago. She was walking to the
Speaker:office and she without campaigning, Sharon said. Chuck Percy had already made his
Speaker:fortune as the head of Bell and Howell Corporation, had run unsuccessfully for
Speaker:Illinois governor and was beginning a career in national politics. The
Speaker:murder of his daughter put the campaign on hold. But when several weeks
Speaker:passed without an arrest or even a solid suspect, Percy resumed campaigning.
Speaker:At stake was a highly coveted senate seat about to be snatched from the incumbent
Speaker:Democrat Paul Douglas. Percy won the election and went on to serve
Speaker:in the senate until his defeat in 1984. Was it
Speaker:burglary? Heck no. This person went there to kill Valerie Percy,
Speaker:and that's my belief 40 years ago and that's my belief today 40 years later,
Speaker:said Joseph d Leonardi. Joe de
Speaker:Leonardi knows murder. The former Chicago police superintendent was
Speaker:an area 6 homicide cop in 1966 Called into the Percy case
Speaker:when Kenilworth realized the murder was more than it could handle. She was found
Speaker:Sunday at 5 AM. We got there Monday morning. It was 24 hours old.
Speaker:We get to the crime scene. There was none. No crime scene. The room where
Speaker:she was murdered was completely renovated. You cannot conduct a homicide
Speaker:investigation like this, Said Dee Leonardi. Why
Speaker:was it renovated? Right. Why had they cleaned up the
Speaker:crime scene before the police even got there? Yeah. Issues
Speaker:with evidence and crime scenes, that's going to come up
Speaker:again It's gonna be a theme here. In this podcast. Now
Speaker:is the next murder that the tribune is saying it might be linked to Christine
Speaker:Rothschild's murder. 4th November 1966 is the
Speaker:capital times of Madison. 3rd Milwaukee area girl is
Speaker:found brutally slain. The body of an attractive 20 year old
Speaker:woman stabbed a 106 times was found
Speaker:Thursday at Suburban Menomonee Falls in the plant she was employed as
Speaker:receptionist. Waukesha County authorities said the body of Diane Olkowitz
Speaker:was discovered around 5:30 PM in the rear of a 1 story building housing the
Speaker:Kenworth Manufacturing Company and the Wilson Welding Company.
Speaker:Milwaukee police were called into the case because the slang was similar to those of
Speaker:2 Milwaukee girls stabbed to death in the last 2 months.
Speaker:Still unsolved at the deaths of Cheryl Thompson, nineteen, killed in
Speaker:October 17th, and Julia Beckwith, 10, killed in the September
Speaker:4th. These crimes were later solved. Killer Michael Lee Harrington
Speaker:admitted to them. But coroner James Welch, who said miss Olkowitz had been
Speaker:stabbed a 106 times, So there were 18 stab wounds in her head.
Speaker:Officials said the weapon was an extremely sharp stiletto type knife. They
Speaker:said it did not appear she had been molested sexually by the slayer Who apparently
Speaker:struck without warning. So that's case number 2 in 1966.
Speaker:Case number 3, Capital Times, Madison, Wisconsin, February
Speaker:15, 1967. Crime Lab seeks clues to the slaying of
Speaker:a Kenosha teen. The state crime laboratory moved in today to help find new clues
Speaker:in the slaying of Mary Ellen Kaltenberg, seventeen, The 5th
Speaker:girl in Southeastern Wisconsin to be stabbed in the last 6 months. The
Speaker:Tremper High School junior, whose frozen body was found in a junked hearse
Speaker:Monday in an auto scrap yard, Had been stabbed 12 times in the neck,
Speaker:chest, forehead, and back with a blade type weapon, Kenosha County coroner
Speaker:Edward Wauvero said Tuesday night. He said 2 chest wounds pierce
Speaker:her heart. He said her autopsy showed death was due to internal bleeding by
Speaker:stabbing, and the autopsy had been delayed because of the body's frozen condition.
Speaker:The crime lab would take samples and make further tests in the body today. Her
Speaker:brother said, he cried like a baby when they told me sis was dead. A
Speaker:report that the girl would likely have a closed casket brought new tears, he said.
Speaker:I cried and I cried when they told me that they might not show her,
Speaker:he said. I can't get a last look, And I liked her. She's still in
Speaker:the city of Kenosha cold case website. The city of Kenosha has her own cold
Speaker:cases. Maryann Kellenberg left home at approximately 8:30 PM on
Speaker:February 9th 19 7 to go to the drugstore. On February 13th, her body
Speaker:was discovered in a junk vehicle. She was 17 years old and died as a
Speaker:result of multiple stab wounds. So they still have a cold case website that's
Speaker:got her murder in there. Okay. This is 1967
Speaker:February. So we already have those five Women in southeastern
Speaker:Wisconsin who've been stabbed and murdered. So they're all murdered
Speaker:in the same manner? All yeah. All stabbed to death And
Speaker:not everyone was moved from the site and or hidden, but
Speaker:they all stabbed head, chest. Yeah.
Speaker:They say a stabbing, especially a 106 stab wounds,
Speaker:would be a crime of passion. That's a serious like, that's not just
Speaker:going there, you wanna hurt somebody. That's you're making sure they're dead, and then
Speaker:you're going crazy. And then some. Yeah. The frenzy.
Speaker:April 24, 1967. This is from the Winona Daily News, Winona,
Speaker:Minnesota. Bodies of 2 Milwaukee women found in field. The
Speaker:bodies of 2 women who'd been missing since April 15th were found tied and
Speaker:riddled with stab wounds Sunday in a field in suburban New Berlin.
Speaker:Waukesha County district attorney Roger Murphy said the bodies of miss
Speaker:Cheryl Ann Packard, 22, of rural Milwaukee, and miss Sharon Malone,
Speaker:25, of rural Heartland, had been in the field a few days. He said the
Speaker:women were probably slain elsewhere and their bodies were dumped in the field later. We
Speaker:got a lot of things going, Murphy said when asked if police had any leads,
Speaker:But nothing we can reveal. No weapon has been found, and police had no one
Speaker:in custody. Murphy and New Berlin police sergeant Jack Bukowski said the
Speaker:women reached stabbed about 5 times in the chest. Miss Packard was also
Speaker:stabbed once in the abdomen and miss Malone 3 times in the neck, they said.
Speaker:The women were last seen alive and together at a cocktail lounge in suburban Brookfield,
Speaker:About 6 miles northeast of the place, their bodies were found. Police said one of
Speaker:the women's undergarments were missing. Both were wearing skirts and blouses. The bodies were
Speaker:found by policemen behind a row of dead trees. They had their hands tied behind
Speaker:their backs with binder twine. Both apparently had been gagged, although miss
Speaker:Malone's had worked loose and was found near her body. A statewide alert had been
Speaker:issued for the women last week after relatives had reported them missing. Miss
Speaker:Malone's stalled car was found several blocks east of the cocktail lounge where they were
Speaker:last seen. These murders are still unsolved as well. By the
Speaker:time we get to May of 1968, where
Speaker:Christine Rothschild body is found outside of Hall here at the
Speaker:campus, University of Wisconsin. Young women in
Speaker:Southeast Wisconsin, Northern Illinois
Speaker:are being Brutally stabbed and left.
Speaker:I feel like if this happened today and we had the series
Speaker:of 5 women left for dead in a field, 1
Speaker:a month. I mean Outrage. Yeah. What are the police doing?
Speaker:Yeah. You know, when I watch a horror movie like Halloween or Scream or
Speaker:something, and You're watching a movie and you think like, oh, man.
Speaker:5 or 6 people got killed in this film. Like, that no way. They'd
Speaker:catch the killer before that would happen in real life. There's no way they could
Speaker:just cut their way through a town like that. Serial killers can't work like
Speaker:that. Certainly did in Wisconsin here in the late 19
Speaker:sixties. Yeah. I kinda wanted to bring up those cases because when
Speaker:you talk about the capital city killings, they just talk about the bodies that were
Speaker:piling up in Dane County over a course of, you know, 14 years,
Speaker:16 years. However, these bodies were piling up all over the
Speaker:area. Long before. Yeah. And they were already trying to
Speaker:make connections in the late 19 sixties Beyond this.
Speaker:I just thought that was interesting and also kind of scary,
Speaker:the amount of, like, really violent murder.
Speaker:Not the kind of murder where somebody got themselves
Speaker:into trouble by going to the wrong place, dealing with the wrong
Speaker:people, Owning the wrong people money. Drug deal going bad or some kind of gang
Speaker:related. These were targeted. It was all
Speaker:younger women. You said the youngest was 10. Yes. Was,
Speaker:like, college student. Right. 2 women in their mid twenties. So it
Speaker:seemed very targeted to a specific group and all done
Speaker:by stabbing. So it seems like there might be a natural connection.
Speaker:Right. Even if there's not a connection to these murders, the fact that people
Speaker:were Getting away that these are all unsolved murders that happen within the space
Speaker:of a couple of years, and it's the bodies just they just start piling
Speaker:up. The senator's daughter is murdered and the in
Speaker:her own home, and the crime is never solved. Yeah. With all
Speaker:the political sway And all the pressure to find this senator
Speaker:or senate candidate at the time's daughter and still couldn't get
Speaker:it done. Still not enough protection to protect these other women who
Speaker:Maybe aren't wealthy, but they certainly were brutalized. So over the years,
Speaker:more young women were abducted and murdered. Their bodies found in various locations, and the
Speaker:exact cause of death Was often difficult to determine because they're found later.
Speaker:And this is the next one people connect in the capital city
Speaker:killings. Deborah Bennett, twenty. Her body has been
Speaker:set on fire and left in a ditch a few miles from Cross Plains, which
Speaker:is a, you know, a small town Yeah. Right outside of that. Ten
Speaker:miles out of Madison. Wisconsin State Journal, July 27,
Speaker:1976. Murder victim was last seen alive on July 10th.
Speaker:Deborah j Bennett, the 20 year old woman whose badly burned body was found
Speaker:last Wednesday in a country ditch near Cross Plains, was last live on
Speaker:Saturday, July 10th at 7:15 PM, walking barefoot on the west side
Speaker:of the 1400 block of Lost Gordon Avenue, the Dane County Sheriff's
Speaker:Department said today. They said she was wearing a blue denim jacket and carrying a
Speaker:brown purse with a shoulder strap. Authorities say they still have no idea who may
Speaker:have killed the woman who wasn't positively identified until last Friday
Speaker:Through teeth and a fractured collarbone, she suffered when she was 8 years old.
Speaker:Bennett had been arrested last month by Madison Police as a suspect In
Speaker:a Williamson Street apartment burglary, but she was not convicted.
Speaker:A 30 member intra county major crime investigating squad
Speaker:is handling the case. No one's ever arrested in Deborah
Speaker:Bennett's murder. Julianne Hall, eighteen. After being bludgeoned to
Speaker:death in 1978, Her body was found buried near Waunakee.
Speaker:This is a Wisconsin State Journal. 24th June 1978. Body is
Speaker:identified as library worker. City and county investigators using
Speaker:dental records late Thursday identified the woman whose nude body was found the day
Speaker:before in a shallow grave along Woodland Road Just off of Highway
Speaker:12 west of Waunakee, the woman, Julianne Hall of Woodview
Speaker:Court, was a native of Fenimore and had worked since May 1st the library
Speaker:assistant in the archive section of the Wisconsin Historical Society. Dane County
Speaker:coroner Clyde Chamberlain Friday morning said investigators will continue the
Speaker:investigation And, quote, assume that a crime had been committed,
Speaker:unquote. He said the death was caused by blows to the head with a blunt
Speaker:instrument, and the nude body also had numerous scratches and bruises. Tests are being
Speaker:conducted today to determine whether she had been molested. She's
Speaker:interesting because she's the daughter of Don and Betty Hall who in
Speaker:March 1975 Won $300,000 in the
Speaker:Illinois state lottery. The couple was divorced between 6 8 months ago
Speaker:according to a Grant County court spokesman. Don Hall is in Fennimore,
Speaker:and Betty Hall now lives at a trailer court on Highway 12 outside
Speaker:Baraboo. So the curse of the lottery strikes
Speaker:again. They get rich, And then, unfortunately,
Speaker:it destroys their family. Ensues. Police late Wednesday asked
Speaker:the media to publish and broadcast a description of the body. Chamberlain said about 40
Speaker:telephone tips about the missing woman were received. Major crime unit investigators are still
Speaker:seeking information about miss Hall who reportedly went drinking with some friends
Speaker:on Friday night. So that one also continues to
Speaker:go unsolved until the next Julie is killed less than
Speaker:a a year later. Julie Speerschneider, twenty. She
Speaker:disappeared 1979 after looking to hitch a ride from an east side club.
Speaker:Where is Julie Speerschneider? Manitowoc Herald Times, 5th
Speaker:June 1979. They fear the worst, that she was
Speaker:kidnapped, maybe raped, and then murdered. But the friends of Julie
Speaker:Speerschneider, a 20 year old Madison woman missing for 10 weeks, have
Speaker:united in an extraordinary effort, which they vow to continue until they find
Speaker:her dead or alive. We're searching for something we hope we don't find. That's
Speaker:the hardest part, said Jack Smith 31. The former owner of the
Speaker:downtown gourmet restaurant where Julie and a number of her friends work,
Speaker:Smith speaks for the group of about 10 people working with Julie's parents and the
Speaker:police In an effort to find out what happened to her. When somebody close to
Speaker:you dies, you can deal with your grief, Smith said. Not knowing, we're denied even
Speaker:that, Said Bridget Fairley, 21. She and Renee Guzman, 20, and
Speaker:Patty Lou, 20, were perhaps Julie's closest friends over the past few
Speaker:years. The 4 of them graduated from Memorial High School here in January,
Speaker:a semester ahead of schedule. They traveled together, worked together as waitresses,
Speaker:and often socialized together. In fact, it was Patty who last heard from
Speaker:Julie at about 8:30 PM on Tuesday, March 27th. It was a dark
Speaker:foggy night, dank and cold. Julie called Patty's apartment,
Speaker:said she was at a downtown par, and asked if she could come over to
Speaker:watch television that evening, but she never showed up. The general theory
Speaker:agreed upon by Julie's friends, parents, and the police is that something happened to her
Speaker:as she hitchhiked the 8 blocks to Patti's apartment. She was a free
Speaker:spirit, said Renee. She wouldn't have teased or come onto a guy who picked her
Speaker:up hitchhiking, but she could easily have said something that would've made him angry.
Speaker:The group has been in contact with a number of psychics. Their versions of what
Speaker:may have happened are widely varied, but the friends have found enough consistency to
Speaker:believe She is now buried in a shallow grave in a rural
Speaker:area northeast of Madison. Julie Speerschneider's body,
Speaker:then a skeleton, was found in 1981 in the town of
Speaker:Dunn near the Yahara River. Just about a year after that,
Speaker:Susan LeMahieu, 24. Her body is found in the UW Arboretum.
Speaker:She had been missing for 4 months. Four dead and police waiting for a
Speaker:break. This is now the newspapers are connecting the
Speaker:murders. Wisconsin State Journal, 2nd May 1981, the
Speaker:mildly retarded, physically handicapped woman was described as a, quote,
Speaker:street person, unquote, who had also hung out in the King and Main Street areas
Speaker:in a long state in Williamson streets. She had been reported missing from her home
Speaker:at Allen Hall, December 15, 1979. We had a couple of
Speaker:suspects, remembers UW police and security lieutenant Gary Moore, but both were
Speaker:cleared. We came up with absolutely nothing. However, Go back to the
Speaker:Capital Times in September 6, 1979. This is 3 months
Speaker:before her disappearance. Susan LaMayhew makes a newspaper.
Speaker:Man charged in threat. Percy Lee Love, 40, who
Speaker:was charged last April with battering a Madison woman, Was charged in criminal court
Speaker:today with threatening to kill her if she testified against him. According to the
Speaker:complaint filed against Love today, he stopped Susan LeMahieu in a tavern
Speaker:parking lot August 24th and told her he would kill her or have someone
Speaker:else do it if she persisted in testifying in the battery case. The
Speaker:charge of threatening to injure a witness carries a maximum penalty of 5 years in
Speaker:prison and a $10,000 fine. The earlier battery charge stems
Speaker:from an incident last April 12th In which he allegedly beat up
Speaker:LeMay. So here's somebody who is
Speaker:a, well, street person, As I said, she's living in a
Speaker:place called Allen Hall, which is a place for people with mental
Speaker:challenges. And, she disappears in December
Speaker:1979, which doesn't come back. Her body is, you know, later
Speaker:found in May. But Percy Love,
Speaker:3 months before she disappeared, goes to court for threatening to kill her.
Speaker:He said, I will kill you or have somebody else do it. 3 months later,
Speaker:she winds up dead. Percy Love is not prosecuted for the
Speaker:murder. No one is well So she never made the witness stand. And
Speaker:She well, she's not the kind of person that when people die, other
Speaker:people care about too much. Unfortunately. But you can see
Speaker:that They're starting to make that connection in 1981.
Speaker:Yeah. They're seeing the body stack up.
Speaker:4 dead and police waiting for a break. So the 4 women, The Julies
Speaker:and Deborah Ann Hall are, you know, are murdered
Speaker:1 1 every year, and nobody can do anything about it.
Speaker:This continues. Shirley Stewart. This is from Wisconsin State
Speaker:Journal, July 2, 2012. So this is a look back. Unsolved
Speaker:murders haunt campus. Shirley Stewart, 17, disappeared in
Speaker:January 1980 after leaving the Dean Clinic and was found in July 1981
Speaker:in a forest north of Madison. Detectives suspected that the same predator
Speaker:killed the 5 women. Shirley Stewart is the next person in the
Speaker:capital city killing. Coming on to almost a
Speaker:year later, Donna Mraz, nineteen. She stabbed to death near Camp
Speaker:Randall Stadium in 1982 while on her way home from her waitress job at a
Speaker:State Street restaurant. Here's the Wisconsin State Journal article.
Speaker:Few leads in murder, July 3, 1982. Investigators have
Speaker:asked a 22 year old University of Wisconsin Madison student from
Speaker:Milwaukee to undergo hypnosis in hopes that he may remember
Speaker:more about Fatal stabbing early Friday of a woman on a concrete
Speaker:walkway north of Camp Randall. Donna Mraz, 23, of Van
Speaker:Nuys Avenue, Who stabbed about midnight died of multiple stab
Speaker:wounds 2 hours later at the university hospital. Dane County deputy coroner Don
Speaker:Scullin said miss Mraz received the stab wound to the heart. He said
Speaker:other results of an autopsy conducted Friday were not available. Now according to his
Speaker:roommates, the UW student walked to his apartment window and saw miss
Speaker:Mraz fall. You ran outside and saw that she'd been stabbed. A deep wound in
Speaker:her left arm stretched from shoulder to elbow and penetrated nearly to the
Speaker:bone, And the student also saw dampness caused by blood in her chest. The
Speaker:student ran back inside and called for an ambulance. He and another man returned to
Speaker:the woman and put a blanket around her. He heard her gagging and tried to
Speaker:resuscitate her. Moore said Friday afternoon that investigators
Speaker:had absolutely nothing about a suspect. We had somebody that saw a
Speaker:shadow around the stadium, but absolutely no description, he said. The use of
Speaker:hypnosis in criminal cases is controversial throughout the country And
Speaker:is the major issue in a first degree murder appeal pending before the Wisconsin
Speaker:Supreme Court. In that case, Ralph Armstrong is seeking reversal of
Speaker:his conviction Because a key witness was hypnotized before identifying
Speaker:with a police lineup. Critics contend hypnosis can irrevocably
Speaker:taint the memory of a witness Who may be unable to distinguish later between
Speaker:actual memory and the recollections created during hypnosis.
Speaker:Donna Mraz's murder Killed right in front of Camp Randall
Speaker:Stadium. Somebody hears it, comes out, sees a
Speaker:shadow, doesn't see anything. Madison police have nothing.
Speaker:So that we're gonna hip we're gonna hypnotize. It just seems
Speaker:like almost out of, like, a seventies sitcom. Right. Here's what'll
Speaker:help you. We're gonna hypnotize you so you can see the killer. If we
Speaker:think that's in effect and I hate to say this Because I I have
Speaker:a lot of respect for what the difficult job the police officers have.
Speaker:But it's made even more difficult because Things are
Speaker:out of control in this month in 1982. This is the same newspaper as this
Speaker:hypnosis article about Donna Mraz. Two more attacks mark
Speaker:outbreak of assaults. They have a list of these going through June.
Speaker:June 26th, a 28 year old Sun Prairie woman was raped in her car in
Speaker:a parking lot of Francis and Lake streets by a man wearing a dark ski
Speaker:mask pulled down over his nose. The assailant held a knife to her throat during
Speaker:the assault. June 25th, a 28 year old east side woman escaped an
Speaker:assailant who grabbed her from the bushes in James Madison Park by kicking in the
Speaker:groin. June 24th, a 19 year old woman was cut on the leg, and her
Speaker:jaw was chipped by a man who attacked and slashed her at Demetrio Field near
Speaker:Packers Avenue. June 21st, A 20 year old teacher was sexually
Speaker:assaulted as she walked along railroad tracks near the 29100 block of Saint Paul
Speaker:Avenue on the east side. June 17th, A 79 year old woman
Speaker:was sexually assaulted and robbed by a man who crawled into her east side home
Speaker:through a small window. June 11th, a 22 year old woman was sexually assaulted in
Speaker:a Williamson Street apartment by a man who Who threatened to kill her because of
Speaker:her connection with a motorcycle club. June 8th, a 27 year old woman was grabbed
Speaker:by a man and raped in the city's near east side. June 6th, An 18
Speaker:year old gasoline station clerk was grabbed and sexually assaulted as she was closing the
Speaker:station. This is June of 1982. Yeah.
Speaker:This is crime run amok. Chaos. It's just I mean, it's really it's
Speaker:terrifying what was going on in June 1982.
Speaker:Donna Mraz is murdered. Everybody else was attacked, assaulted,
Speaker:stabbed. People were fighting off attackers, And then
Speaker:Donna Mraz just was the unlucky one. And none of these
Speaker:are solved.
Speaker:Couple years later, we come to the the last of the people. Think of the
Speaker:capital city killings. Janet Rasch, twenty. Her body was
Speaker:found partially burnt in 1985 near a highway 100 miles north of
Speaker:Madison after being reported missing for over a month. This is from the
Speaker:Stevens Point Journal, 12th January 1985. An unhealed
Speaker:wound. The Portage County sheriff's department has had little to say about the death
Speaker:Except that it's being treated as a murder and that investigation continues. The reason for
Speaker:that is simple. Investigators don't have any solid evidence. They've expended hundreds
Speaker:of frustrating hours in the case, But their hopes now hinge on a detailed autopsy
Speaker:report from the state crime laboratory. Even that report may fall short, and we
Speaker:are faced with the unsettling prospect of living with the festering wound of Janet
Speaker:Rache's unsolved death. The theory is that this young woman died by strangulation,
Speaker:but it remains a theory because her body was so terribly decomposed by the time
Speaker:it was found. Her body was partially clad when found, and authorities believe that she
Speaker:was sexually assaulted. But, again, the lack of solid clues makes that only
Speaker:speculation. Highway 54 will take you a lot of places, but it isn't a
Speaker:major state commuter route load with transient travelers, so there's a good chance
Speaker:that Janet Rache's killer or killers is still among us.
Speaker:However, October 2022, Portage County sheriff's
Speaker:department finally closes the case. Not with the murder though,
Speaker:But they've decided it was accidental. The story was she
Speaker:was camping while she was hitchhiking, and in the night, her sleeping bag
Speaker:caught fire. She ran to the highway for help, but she died
Speaker:from her wounds before she could find any assistance. So she was partially
Speaker:clothed because The fire had burned some of the clothes
Speaker:off her body. Mhmm. She died away from the
Speaker:campsite, so that's why they took so long to find her.
Speaker:And by the time they found her decomposed remains, they couldn't figure out
Speaker:what happened to her. But she was hitchhiking somewhere,
Speaker:Probably couldn't catch a ride, decided to camp.
Speaker:Sleeping bag caught fire. Had a bad luck, you know, set a fire, got too
Speaker:close to fire, or Or a spark came flying off it in the night. She's
Speaker:sleeping. She wakes up, and her body's on fire. Sure. So that case is
Speaker:eventually cross that one off the list. That's where I'm from, Right around
Speaker:there. So I was wondering, like, if there was connection, but So you're clearly that
Speaker:was You're finally not a suspect anymore, Jack. That's right. I was baby then,
Speaker:so it'd been tough for me. That's a good alibi. But that story to me
Speaker:though is just such a it's good that's closure for the family because, I mean,
Speaker:they're writing about Janet Rache's story in the Stevens Point Journal for
Speaker:Couple of decades, and it's really a a tragedy. And this is Portage County is
Speaker:not a place where a lot of murders happen. No. So it has a violent,
Speaker:but they think sexual assault and murder, which Is it weird to think because
Speaker:this is happening in the early eighties? This kind of crime is
Speaker:it's happening all the time. In defense of the fine people of
Speaker:Stevens Point, growing up in Wisconsin Rapids, Madison is the
Speaker:big city to my parents to this day. They think, oh, Madison's
Speaker:such a big city. Growing up in a a town of
Speaker:20,000 Sure. It might be, but compared to the likes of
Speaker:nearby Milwaukee or Chicago, it Still has kind of that small
Speaker:town feel to it. I'm glad they were able to put some closure to it.
Speaker:And it Yeah. This she had a scary end, Obviously,
Speaker:on fire, but it wasn't somebody wasn't brutalizing
Speaker:her. She didn't have to deal with human cruelty at the end of her life,
Speaker:and that seems like At least a a small blessing if
Speaker:you can see If there is 1. Blessing in that terrible story. Those are the
Speaker:classic kinda capital city killings.
Speaker:Talk about a couple of killings that happened afterwards 20 years afterwards in
Speaker:2000 That kinda changed a lot of things in Madison.
Speaker:The first one was Britney Zimmerman in April of 2008.
Speaker:Mhmm. And I remember this one Because she was
Speaker:stabbed to death in her West Doty Street apartment, April 2, 2008. Yeah.
Speaker:That's right downtown. Yeah. Right by the bus station. She
Speaker:had called 911 and was on the phone with the
Speaker:operator while the guy was attacking, while he's breaking in.
Speaker:Mhmm. Became disconnected, and the operator didn't
Speaker:call back. So it changed how 911 works
Speaker:In Madison. So the call was dropped. No one ever called her
Speaker:back. It's a sad stabbing death unsolved for a long
Speaker:time. Billboards all over Madison for a decade saying if you have
Speaker:any information, you know, her family on the news. They got rid of the bus
Speaker:station downtown Because they thought that the killer was a transient.
Speaker:They thought got a bus station. Come and go. I'd taken that bus to La
Speaker:Crosse. I'd taken that bus to Minneapolis. I'd go to that bus a 1000000 times,
Speaker:and now we don't have a bus station in Madison. 15 years later, there is
Speaker:no bus station in Madison. And they thought he got off and then got back
Speaker:on. And how are you ever gonna find that Yeah. Eventually,
Speaker:someone a guy was already in jail. David Rall plead guilty
Speaker:after 14 years At the end of 2022. And what was he in for?
Speaker:Do we know? He was already in for a violent crime. Yeah. But then
Speaker:they were able to link him The being in Madison, and he admitted to,
Speaker:like, somebody else, and then they got him for it. And now I don't know
Speaker:if he's sentenced yet. This just happened At the end of
Speaker:2022 that he plead guilty. Okay. When we're recording March
Speaker:year 2023, I do not believe he has been sentenced to the rest of his
Speaker:life. I assume he's not going anywhere. He's not gonna be able to kill anybody
Speaker:else. Yeah. But that was another thing. So Janet Rash, Assault in
Speaker:2022. Britney Zimmerman, assault in 2022. Kelly Nolan,
Speaker:UW Whitewater student living in downtown Madison who disappeared after a night out
Speaker:drinking And her murdered body left in Oregon, Wisconsin. It's Capital
Speaker:Times May 11, 2008. Questions abound, but cops say
Speaker:little. The first question when Kelly Nolan didn't come home June 23rd was
Speaker:simple. What happened to her? The answer 2 weeks later was heartbreaking
Speaker:Noland's body was found July 9th in a wooded area in the town of Dunn,
Speaker:10 miles south of downtown Madison. 10 months later, police still don't know
Speaker:who put her there While a cause of death and motive for the crime have
Speaker:never been released by authorities. There was a second body found in Dunn.
Speaker:Yeah. That seems to be a popular dump spot. Apparently.
Speaker:People in the town of Dunne, may I recommend some closed circuit TV cameras or
Speaker:something so we can find these guys. Since the death of Nolan, a 22 year
Speaker:old UW Whitewater student who disappeared at departing at State Street, Madison
Speaker:residents have seen 2 more tragic killings of young people in which the questions
Speaker:far outnumber the answers. Police have not identified any suspects or motive in these
Speaker:crimes. The January 28th fatal daytime stabbing of 31 year old Joel Marino
Speaker:in his home and the killing of Britney Zimmerman, who we just talked about, the
Speaker:21 year old UW Madison student April 2nd, Raising possible concerns
Speaker:about whether police are holding back too much information about their cases and about the
Speaker:progress in solving them. When killers run the loose, Law enforcement has
Speaker:responsibility to maximize the information that it gives out to the public, said Jack
Speaker:Levin, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University in Boston and
Speaker:author of Books on Homicide, who was consulted for police, prosecutors, and
Speaker:defense attorneys in murder trials. Otherwise, the public can't take precautions, Levin
Speaker:added. And if police investigators would simply take a look at cases of murder that
Speaker:have been solved, Thanks to the involvement of members of the public, they might think
Speaker:twice before they conceal evidence. Madison police chief Noble Ray
Speaker:said detectives are holding back only what they must to make sure the cases can
Speaker:be solved with some Key details known only to investigators to help them weed
Speaker:out false confessors and trip up the guilty. He also said investigators were
Speaker:working very hard on the cases, Which are more difficult to solve because they're
Speaker:all believed to be random attacks by strangers with no ties to the victims. And
Speaker:he stressed that more was going on behind the scenes Then people
Speaker:realize, but Kelly Nolan's still unsolved. Yeah. No one knows
Speaker:who killed her. Their investigation, How did the police
Speaker:search? What did they do? They did think these crimes were connected. They were looking.
Speaker:January 4, 1982, detectives have wish list
Speaker:too. So this is kind of a New Year's story in the Wisconsin State Journal
Speaker:in 1982 before Donna Mraz died. Like everyone else,
Speaker:Madison area detectives have their own holiday wish list. On the list of
Speaker:sticky cases they would like to see resolved during the new year are crimes ranging
Speaker:from homicides to armed robberies to thefts. And at the top of the list are
Speaker:the unsolved murders of 7 women. That's the capital
Speaker:city killings you're talking about in January 4, 1982. So 41 years ago, it
Speaker:makes the New Year's newspaper. If they think it's a serial killer
Speaker:When you think about a serial killer, Jeff, like and we've
Speaker:talked about lots of serial killers on this show. Seems to be a popular. That
Speaker:unfortunately, Wisconsin, we have a bunch. But when you think about a serial killer, what
Speaker:comes to mind? If we asked AI art to do a picture of
Speaker:a serial killer, what do you think it would show A
Speaker:late twenties, early thirties man, usually white,
Speaker:a sullen look. Like a dommer type. Yeah. Like a dommer
Speaker:type. A loner isolated. Somebody who's
Speaker:uncomfortable around other people. Somebody when they talked about Ed Gein, they're like, well,
Speaker:Ed was always a little bit off. Yeah. That's what we think. And and Ed
Speaker:is actually not in the pantheon of serial killers. He's more of a grave
Speaker:robber who, a couple older ladies pissed them off, so they met their
Speaker:end, mister Gein. Right. But we picture those weird Yeah.
Speaker:The reclusive From the movies. Outcasts, the leatherface,
Speaker:or or even in real life, The hillside strangler
Speaker:or the Boston strangler or Richard Ramirez
Speaker:kind of psycho. Right. Yeah. Right. Richard Mears got, he's got the
Speaker:pentagram on his hand. Yeah. The son of Sam is a
Speaker:loner, kind of not a lot of friends. Well, the FBI on their
Speaker:website, They have a myths about serial killers section.
Speaker:Let's debunk all these myths about serial killers myths. Yeah. With with the FBI.
Speaker:Myth, serial killers are all dysfunctional loners. No, Mike. That's
Speaker:just you. The the majority of serial killers are not reclusive, social
Speaker:misfits who live alone. They are not monsters and may not appear strange. Many
Speaker:serial killers hide in plain sight within their communities. Serial murderers often
Speaker:have families and homes, are gainfully employed, and appear to be normal members of the
Speaker:community. That's Like the torso killer in New York City who was
Speaker:killing people. He had a job and friends. Because many
Speaker:serial murderers can blend in so effortlessly, They are oftentimes overlooked
Speaker:by law enforcement and the public. Myth. Serial killers are all
Speaker:white males. Contrary to popular belief, Serial killers span
Speaker:all racial groups. They are white, African American, Hispanic, and Asian
Speaker:serial killer. The racial diversification of serial killers Generally
Speaker:mirrors that of the overall US population. Diversity is our strength. I
Speaker:was gonna say that. Even serial killers. That's where we have equity is in serial
Speaker:killers. Well, remember those guys in Washington DC, the snipers?
Speaker:Yeah. And they were Black guys. It was an older guy
Speaker:and he kind of had Svengali ed This younger guy come along
Speaker:with him and sniping people. Mhmm.
Speaker:Terrifying, random, murderous attacks.
Speaker:Long range, Unsuspecting. You could be anywhere and just
Speaker:killed out of nowhere. So that's not the white male
Speaker:loner kinda deal. Myth. Serial killers are only motivated
Speaker:by sex. We think there's gonna be assault involved
Speaker:or they get their jollies. Guys like Dahmer did, but not all of
Speaker:them. All serial murders are not sexually based. There are many
Speaker:other motivations for serial murders including anger, thrill, financial
Speaker:gain, And attention seeking. Financial gain is something that people don't
Speaker:talk about enough. Yeah. I guess with the Murdoch murders
Speaker:Yeah. Where he killed his nanny or his kid's nanny. Right. To
Speaker:cash in on her? To get him out of a tough spot? Well, the life
Speaker:insurance policy that Life insurance policy. Yeah. H h homes, we hire people,
Speaker:take out insurance policies on them, Then murder them and collect the insurance.
Speaker:Serial killing for financial gain.
Speaker:Myth. All serial murderers travel and operate interstate.
Speaker:Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation.
Speaker:They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor
Speaker:point. Residents, employment, residents of a relative, Jeffrey
Speaker:Dahmer's grandmother's house. Mhmm. Serial murderers will, at
Speaker:times, Spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone when their confidence has grown
Speaker:through experience to avoid detection. Very few serial murderers
Speaker:travel interstate to kill. Myth.
Speaker:Serial killers cannot stop killing. It has been widely believed that
Speaker:once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however,
Speaker:some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In
Speaker:those instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders' lives that inhibit
Speaker:them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation
Speaker:in family activities, sexual substitution, or other diversions.
Speaker:Think about the Golden State Killer. Mhmm. He has all those horrible
Speaker:crimes and then stops. When he
Speaker:realizes that DNA evidence can be a thing Yeah. He
Speaker:stops. And they find him 25 years later.
Speaker:Oh, discarded DNA of all things. Right. But felt like his compulsion
Speaker:made him do it. And I think that trope might come from where Dahmer,
Speaker:one of the most famous serial killers, also Wisconsin, spiraled out
Speaker:of control towards the end of his killing spree Because he could
Speaker:not he could not stop the compulsion to kill. Right. He went
Speaker:from every once in a while to then those last couple of months,
Speaker:He's just going after people constantly. Yeah. Myth. All serial
Speaker:killers are insane or are evil geniuses. Another
Speaker:myth that exists is that serial killers have either a debilitating mental condition,
Speaker:psychotic, like, I mean, Richard Ramirez. Mhmm. Or they're extremely clever and
Speaker:intelligent, like the zodiac. Yeah. As a group,
Speaker:serial killers suffer from a variety of personality disorders, including psychopathy,
Speaker:antisocial personality disorder, and others. Most, however, are not
Speaker:adjudicated as insane under the law. So they're not psychotic.
Speaker:They're not having a break from reality. The
Speaker:media has created a number of fictional serial killer geniuses,
Speaker:Anthony Hopkins Yeah. That's Hannibal Lecter, Who outsmart law
Speaker:enforcement at every turn. Like other populations, however, serial killers
Speaker:range in intelligence from borderline to above average level.
Speaker:Myth. Serial killers want to get caught. Offenders committing a
Speaker:crime for the 1st time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each
Speaker:new offense, eventually Seeding with few mistakes are problem. While most serial
Speaker:killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still
Speaker:very steep. They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose
Speaker:of the victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing the
Speaker:body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved.
Speaker:As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become
Speaker:empowered, feeling they will never be identified. As the series continues,
Speaker:the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. And this often causes
Speaker:them to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It
Speaker:is not that serial killers want to get caught. They feel like they can't
Speaker:get caught. Yeah. Perfect example, at least in a
Speaker:fictional sense, is Dexter. He continued his spree
Speaker:and used his methods of disposal, but ended up getting kinda
Speaker:sloppy towards the end. Right. Desperate, sloppy,
Speaker:cocky, but this idea that that they're tortured, this goes back
Speaker:to if they are insane. You're not gonna find that in the
Speaker:diagnostic and statistical manual of Yeah. American Psychological
Speaker:Association. Insane the legal term, Whether you
Speaker:are of sound enough mind to have committed the crime or
Speaker:not. Like, whether you know the difference between right and wrong. You You know, it's
Speaker:why Ed Gein went to a mental hospital and didn't
Speaker:go into prison. Mhmm. Because they said he didn't know they didn't seem
Speaker:right and wrong, While Dahmer went to prison because he knew what he was
Speaker:doing. He didn't wanna He knew what he was doing was wrong, and he
Speaker:had to pay for Right. He was drinking to numb his feelings of
Speaker:knowing what he was doing was wrong.
Speaker:But when you talk about, was it a serial killer? Did Madison
Speaker:Police think they were dealing with that? Well,
Speaker:yes. By the mid eighties, after Donna
Speaker:Mraz's murder, they thought that these women
Speaker:were victims of one of the most infamous Serial killers of 19
Speaker:eighties. Henry Lee Lucas. And they
Speaker:Netflix made a great documentary about him called The Confession Killer,
Speaker:because he confessed to hundreds of murders. He's the inspiration
Speaker:behind the movie Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer. Michael Rooker
Speaker:is Terrify when I think about that movie, which
Speaker:I I saw in my teens I haven't seen it. It's based on
Speaker:Henry and his Partner Otis Toole going around, and it it's
Speaker:just probably the closest thing to Henry Ford to Basilica that's come out lately is
Speaker:the Dahmer mini Yeah. They kinda go into those uncomfortable
Speaker:performances and create those moods. And Henry
Speaker:Portrait of a Serial Killer really does that well. And Michael
Speaker:Rooker is so disturbing in that film, like, when I see him with pictures of
Speaker:fans and he's everything, oh, Michael Rooker is a great guy. I was like, no,
Speaker:he's not. He is evil. And I know he's great, good human being,
Speaker:all those kind of things, but that performance is scarring. But Henry Lee Lucas,
Speaker:once he starts confessing to
Speaker:different kinds of murders around the country. He starts telling this
Speaker:to these Texas policemen. The policemen are like, okay. Let's
Speaker:go and see if we can solve these other murders that happened around the country.
Speaker:And then every police department, the unsolved cases that may have
Speaker:been in the area where Henry Lee Lucas could have been in it sometime
Speaker:or him and Otis as they were traveling. They thought, well, let's see if he
Speaker:can know some things about the crime, and let's see if we
Speaker:can pin him on Henry Lucas and he'll admit to it. Wisconsin State
Speaker:Journal, January 27, 1984, killer to be queried in Texas on state deaths.
Speaker:Julie, Sue, Deborah, Barbara, Julie, Donna, and
Speaker:Christine. Each was found murdered, most abducted.
Speaker:All of their cases remain unsolved. Local detectives may get
Speaker:a crack solving some of these tough Dane cases on March 13th when they
Speaker:are scheduled to question mass killer, Henry Lee Lucas, in Texas.
Speaker:County and city detectives are in the long line of investigators from across the
Speaker:nation who wanna question Lucas in hopes of finding solutions to their baffling
Speaker:murder cases. Authorities believe Lucas, 47, and Elwood
Speaker:Toole, 36, who faces arson murder charges in Jacksonville,
Speaker:Florida, may have committed as many as 200 murders.
Speaker:Lucas has told police he is responsible for killing as many as 165
Speaker:women In treks across the country, sometimes with Toole. Lucas and
Speaker:Toole have been placed in the Dane County area in 1971,
Speaker:1976, and August of 1982. They've also been linked to the
Speaker:slang of Menomonee Falls woman, Joyce Gardner, 54, in May
Speaker:of 1981. Dane County sheriff Jerome Lack Said
Speaker:arrangements have been made with Texas Rangers to question Lucas on March 13th about some
Speaker:of the Madison area cases. It definitely appears he was in the vicinity of
Speaker:at least 1, if not more of the Homicide cases we're working on with female
Speaker:victims, Lack said. It would be irresponsible not to interview him and try to
Speaker:refresh his memory. Let's fast forward 5 months. Capital Times,
Speaker:June 16, 1984. Evidence strong, Lucas killed 4 women
Speaker:here by Marv Balousek. He's written a number of
Speaker:these. Yeah. We have a book right here on the counter. 101 Wisconsin
Speaker:Unsolved Mysteries by Marv Balousek. So Yep. So he's been on the beat for
Speaker:murder in Wisconsin in A long time. Detectives hope to
Speaker:interview Addis Elwood Toole, a sidekick of mass killer Henry Lee
Speaker:Lucas, to try to link the pair to unsolved Dane County murders of as many
Speaker:as 5 women. Sheriff Jerome Lackey said Friday, investigators are
Speaker:convinced that Lucas abducted and murdered Julianne Hall, eighteen, whose
Speaker:body was found June 21, 1978 In a remote wooded area along
Speaker:Woodland Road near Highway 12 west of Waunakee, she'd been missing 5
Speaker:days. The basis for this determination is that mister Lucas provided the
Speaker:investigators With significant details involving the crime scene and victim that only
Speaker:the perpetrator, in our judgment, could have known, he said. Lucas, who has admitted
Speaker:more than three 150 murders nationwide was
Speaker:interviewed for 9 hours earlier this week at Georgetown, Texas where he's imprisoned
Speaker:by Dane County detective David Kokam's, Madison police detective Mary
Speaker:Ottoson and university police detective Herb Hansen. The videotaped interviews were
Speaker:analyzed Thursday by investigators. Like you said, there's strong evidence to indicate that
Speaker:Lucas is involved with the deaths of Susan LeMahieu, Julie Speerschneider,
Speaker:and Deborah Bennett, and, Quote, some evidence unquote, that he also killed
Speaker:Shirley Stewart. Lucas, along with his lover and companion Otis Toole,
Speaker:36, have told of roaming the country killing along the way. Toole, who is now
Speaker:serving time in Florida for murder, is believed to be traveling with Lucas at the
Speaker:time of the Hall murder. Authorities say they will now begin making arrangements to travel
Speaker:to Florida to interview Toole. It is not known for certain what brought Lucas and
Speaker:Toole to Wisconsin, but according to sheriff's lieutenant George Miller, Lucas is believed
Speaker:to have traveled through Madison while on his way to visit relatives another state.
Speaker:This is 1984 where he's admitting to all of these
Speaker:murders. And And he's probably having a fun time with it. He was getting cigarettes.
Speaker:He's getting Kentucky Fried Chicken. He's getting Coca Cola. Getting
Speaker:attention. He's getting constant attention for months. You see that in the
Speaker:documentary, the confession killer. Just state after
Speaker:state. People come in and they try to solve these murders
Speaker:using Henry Lee Lucas, and he is their Huckleberry.
Speaker:Mhmm. 300 he's 47 years old. 350 murders. That's
Speaker:I mean That's a pretty high body count. Remember when Wilt Chamberlain said he had
Speaker:sex in his autobiography? He's like he had sex 20,000 women. Yeah. Somebody
Speaker:did the math, and it was like, he would had that, like, 4 times a
Speaker:day or whatever, like, every league game. And it was just like some kind of
Speaker:number that was astronomical. Henry Lee Lucas would have to kill something like once a
Speaker:week. In the end So it's less than credible. Yes. He eventually
Speaker:recants most of his confession, which is why
Speaker:The Henry Lee Lucas connection to the capital city killings starts drying up
Speaker:in the newspapers by the ladies. It's not mentioned anymore. By the time we get
Speaker:to 1990, Wisconsin State Journal once again is doing their New Year's
Speaker:crime roundup. A brief glimmer of hope for clearing these cases
Speaker:came in 1984 when mass killer, Henry Lee Lucas, confessed Killing Hall
Speaker:and Speerschneider. But Lucas later recanted his confessions
Speaker:to more than 600 murders.
Speaker:Wow. Claiming he was trying to avoid the death
Speaker:penalty.
Speaker:Alright. So it's not Henry Lucas. What's another kind
Speaker:of of killer? They're the kind of killers that the quote from the
Speaker:beginning of the show was by this guy named Michael
Speaker:Artfield, who wrote this Mad City book. And his
Speaker:theory is that certain people come to cities at
Speaker:certain times because they think of it as a hunting ground. It's like
Speaker:Devil in the White City. Right. They take advantage of the
Speaker:opportunity that a city of chaos can provide.
Speaker:Place specific killers. Again from the Mad City
Speaker:book. Before the clinical and forensic literature on
Speaker:psychopaths, which was later to come and ultimately verify what the annals of crime
Speaker:had already shown, A more anecdotal history confirmed that
Speaker:perceptively safe cities caught up in great migrations and
Speaker:celebrations tend to simultaneously invite Ian and ignore
Speaker:homicidal threats at a rate rarely seen in more perceptively
Speaker:perilous lookouts. Consider by way of comparison,
Speaker:the World's Fair of 18/93 in Christine Rothschild's hometown
Speaker:of Chicago. It was ostensibly a celebration of the 400th
Speaker:anniversary of Columbus discovering America. It also ended up being
Speaker:what likely remains the single greatest protected bloodbath On
Speaker:American soil at the hands of an American citizen, the devil in the white
Speaker:city. Perceptively safe cities caught up in great migrations and
Speaker:celebrations tend to simultaneously invite in and ignore
Speaker:homicidal threats at a rate rarely seen in more perceptively
Speaker:perilous locale. New York, Detroit, Chicago,
Speaker:Milwaukee. That's perceptively perilous locale. What's a
Speaker:perceptively safe city? Madison. Madison. Today, if
Speaker:I had to walk home right right now, if I had to walk home the
Speaker:3 quarters of a mile of my house, I'd be like, okay. I wouldn't worry
Speaker:about it. Even going back a 100 years,
Speaker:Madison hasn't always necessarily been as safe as
Speaker:we kind of Dream it to be as Money Magazine's number one
Speaker:place to live. The 19 twenties during the time
Speaker:of prohibition, a specific Corner in Madison's
Speaker:downtown was called Madison's death corner. And
Speaker:you won't find it on any map, in our time anyway, But the intersection
Speaker:of Murray Street and Desmond Court was once called
Speaker:Madison's death corner. Between the years 1912
Speaker:and 1928, it was a site of 6 murders. The intersection is now
Speaker:occupied by the medical complex 1 South Park It was once
Speaker:part of Madison's Greenbush neighborhood, also known as Little Italy.
Speaker:The neighborhood centered around Regent Street, which is known for tailgating on a
Speaker:Saturday Or many of Madison's medical complexes, but
Speaker:it once held low income housing and was considered the slum of
Speaker:Madison. The National Prohibition Act of 1919 Only
Speaker:exacerbated the problems, turning the neighborhood into the epicenter of
Speaker:bootlegging activity. Death Corners deceased include
Speaker:Madison's 1st law enforcement officer to die on the line of duty, Herbert
Speaker:Drudger. Along with Drudger, Greenbush's queen of
Speaker:bootlegging, Jenny Giusto, their father, Carl Giusto, were killed
Speaker:in the area. Vestiges of days gone by held on in name only,
Speaker:Greenbush Bar and Greenbush Bakery. Little Italian
Speaker:store, Faboni's, has since closed and moved to nearby Monona.
Speaker:So that section of the city is only kinda held together by
Speaker:Greenbush Bar. Greenbush Bakery has since moved down Regent
Speaker:Street, but that's the last little part of what was
Speaker:once little Italy. Yeah. But the Italian workmen's club is right. The
Speaker:Italian that's right that well, that's right by Greenbush Bar, right above it. I put
Speaker:it's hard there. I barbed one time. If you are looking for The best pizza
Speaker:in Madison? Fight me. It is at Greenbush Bar.
Speaker:It's a little dive bar with the best pizza. At
Speaker:the time in the 19 twenties too, Madison
Speaker:had the most murders per capita
Speaker:Wow. Of any city in the United States. Little old Madison. This perceptively
Speaker:safe city. So when you talk about death corners, Its
Speaker:nickname and murders per capita.
Speaker:Madison was a rough place a 100 years ago. And so what we think
Speaker:of like, oh, safe, small, no problems. Yeah.
Speaker:Plenty of gangland killings at that corner. We'll blame it on Chicago.
Speaker:Right. We always do. Yeah. We That's the classic Wisconsin way. Well, we
Speaker:wouldn't have any problems if it were for all those fibs coming up. That's right.
Speaker:There's already kind of reputation in Madison. There's also a
Speaker:famous unsolved killing from even earlier than that, isn't it? Mhmm. So on the
Speaker:evening of September 5, 1911, Magdalen Lemberger
Speaker:put her 4 children to bed. All was quiet in their green bush
Speaker:Madison home. Again, we got green bush. The next morning, the Lembergers
Speaker:awoke to find their 7 year old daughter. Annie was missing. Citizens and
Speaker:dozens searched buildings, dumpsters, boxcars, and even
Speaker:storm sewers for any sign of Annie. 4 days later, a cement
Speaker:worker found Annie's naked body floating in Brittingham Bay.
Speaker:The prime suspect was John Dogskin Johnson.
Speaker:That's an all time name right there. Oh, man. He was a serial child
Speaker:molester who lived only a block from Annie. Dog skin
Speaker:Johnson was brought into custody, but But he denied any
Speaker:involvement. Johnson eventually confessed while an angry
Speaker:mob formed outside of the jail. Johnson was sentenced and sent to
Speaker:Waupun. Upon arrival, Johnson lobbied that the confession was
Speaker:coerced and that he feared for his life if he was released to the mob.
Speaker:He took the confession so he could be commuted to Lipan for
Speaker:his safety. But then when he arrived there, he's like, no. That's not true. I
Speaker:was just afraid for my life because of the angry mom. But a decade later,
Speaker:a judge would agree to Johnson's appeal. His attorney was able to enter
Speaker:a new piece of evidence, a key witness. A friend of Lemberger's,
Speaker:May Sorenson, testified that Annie's father, Martin Lemberger, Struck
Speaker:her in a fit of rage. This piece of evidence was divulged to her by
Speaker:the Lemberger's son, Helios. Johnson's conviction was overturned, and
Speaker:Lemberger was arrested for manslaughter. But the statute of limitations
Speaker:had to run out. So Martin Lemberger before there's no statute of limitations on
Speaker:murder. Isn't that crazy? So Martin Lemberger was never tried for the death
Speaker:of his daughter. In 1933, a new piece of technology was debuted,
Speaker:and Lemberger's Johnson and missus Sorensen agreed to submit to a
Speaker:polygraph. So Sorensen failed and she admitted that she was
Speaker:offered $500 to introduce the testimony. To this day,
Speaker:it's unclear who abducted and killed Annie Lemberger.
Speaker:Was it dog skinned Johnson? Was it her father? Or was there another
Speaker:culprit in this one slum of green bush? It's a tragedy too
Speaker:because all these unsolved murders of men, innocent
Speaker:girls. Mhmm. No one's been brought to justice. Yeah. Dog skin Johnson,
Speaker:he gets away. Dad gets people keep on getting away with
Speaker:murder. Mhmm. By the time we get to 1968 and Christine
Speaker:Rothschild murder. Madison is a is a pretty wild place at the
Speaker:end of the sixties. Mhmm. This is from 1968, a wild time in
Speaker:Madison by, Stu Levitan is in the Isthmus, August 24,
Speaker:2008. In 1968, Madison was in fiscal and
Speaker:political disarray. There was chaos and destruction on campus. A large
Speaker:segment of the industrial east side was on strike, and city workers waged
Speaker:sick leave job actions. The bus system teetered on the edge of
Speaker:failure. Crime spiked. Some Madison men died Vietnam,
Speaker:while others, along with some Madison women, waged their war at
Speaker:home. Now that's the famous documentary called The War at
Speaker:Home. The War at Home talks about Berkeley campus and the protests
Speaker:against the war, And then Madison is featured in the protest against the war. That's
Speaker:Paul Soglin's first time on film. You mean UW
Speaker:Madison Berkeley East Hampers. Right. And Paul
Speaker:Steiger, who eventually be mayor of Madison for, like, 25 years total in 3 different
Speaker:decades. He's a student activist. And so he's featured in this war
Speaker:at home film about these demonstrations that were happening against the
Speaker:Vietnam War, which would get More and more intense,
Speaker:eventually, to where we talked about Sterling Hall, Christine Rothschild's body
Speaker:was found in front of was bombed Because there was an
Speaker:office inside of Sterling Hall where they
Speaker:said they were doing some kind of military research.
Speaker:Mhmm. And it wasn't even, you know, like that, but the protesters thought
Speaker:they'd get back at them. So I'm saying So the protests were
Speaker:so intense, people were setting up for blowing things up. And the Red Gym,
Speaker:you know, there also was a bomb there before the bomb at
Speaker:Sterling Hall. That one didn't go as successfully, whereas it didn't
Speaker:really blow anything up. But they also tried to bomb the red gem, the armory.
Speaker:Their war at home. It really was a war at home in the streets of
Speaker:Madison in 1968.
Speaker:Michael Artfield is a Canadian criminologist. He decides
Speaker:in 2016 to start working on this book,
Speaker:Mad City, about the campus city killing. And it's because
Speaker:At his university he was working at in Canada, he had, as a
Speaker:class, was taking on these criminology students, and they were starting to look at cold
Speaker:case and starting to follow-up on them. He thought it was interesting that no one
Speaker:had really been talking about these ones in Madison. And the students were really
Speaker:interested in them because It was kids their age who'd
Speaker:been murdered, and that's why they kinda wanted to follow-up on it. So that's why
Speaker:eventually he'd write this Mad City book, but then he does write an
Speaker:an article talking about UW Madison during the Vietnam era. This is
Speaker:from madison.com, March 14, 2018, and this is originally
Speaker:printed on a website called The Conversation. At least 3 serial killers
Speaker:stalked UW Madison during its Vietnam protest era, says criminologist
Speaker:Michael Arntfield. Gateway crimes From peeping and prowling to
Speaker:stalking lecture halls and dorm rooms, all went unrecognized and were
Speaker:allowed to escalate amid a larger culture war where the campus
Speaker:police And even the encompassing Madison City police were effectively told
Speaker:to stand down and disengage. Again, a familiar refrain today.
Speaker:Over the years, some murder cases remain unsolved, but they are not forgotten.
Speaker:In criminology, we refer to episodes such as the 14 year u
Speaker:w phenomenon From 1968 to 1982 as a place
Speaker:specific crime. It's a concept still only in its adolescence that
Speaker:finally recognizes that violent offenders are more and logistically
Speaker:oriented than previously thought. The concept describes how they proactively
Speaker:and discriminately select cities and even places within those cities,
Speaker:such as polarized college campuses to carry out and just as quickly bury
Speaker:their crimes within a bigger haystack of mayhem, angst, and misguided
Speaker:aggression. It explains how and why specific physical environments not
Speaker:only impart some ritual or symbolic significance for the killers, but also how they
Speaker:exploit police apathy and public disenfranchisement in those same select
Speaker:locales. It's how and why, as we've confirmed with the Murder Accountability
Speaker:Project, nearly 15% of all unsolved Stranglings committed in the
Speaker:United States between 2003 and 2015 have occurred in
Speaker:the same 12 mile stretch in Chicago. When I wrote Mad City as
Speaker:a visiting scholar at Vanderbilt University in the winter of 2016, it was
Speaker:an otherwise untold story of how divisive campus politics And
Speaker:university administrators, addled by gelatinous vertebrae, enabled the
Speaker:murders of students, staff, and local Madison residents by
Speaker:psychopaths hiding in plain sight. And he thinks
Speaker:he solved the murder of Christine Rostrop.
Speaker:This is from an An article in the Daily Mirror about Mike Arnfield. Mike
Speaker:Arnfield has written book Mad City, which looks at the murder of Christine as well
Speaker:as series of killings in the city. It also explains the lifelong quest by
Speaker:Christine's best friend, Linda Tomazewski, to bring her killer to
Speaker:justice. Christine's killer's m o was going to universities and
Speaker:blending in as a medical researcher. He never finished his research and kept on going
Speaker:to different universities. The murder has an alarming similarity to one which occurred at his
Speaker:alma mater a year prior to this, and we know he was there. When Christine
Speaker:was a student at UW, she She became aware that someone was stalking her,
Speaker:laying it away outside her window, and making mysterious phone calls. Niels
Speaker:Bjorn Jorgensen would often be in the memorial reading room where Christine would be
Speaker:there. She apparently told Linda, her best friend, that she felt he was
Speaker:stalking her and she was doing all she could to avoid encountering him such as
Speaker:not going out and locking her doors and windows. Linda told police what she
Speaker:knew. And despite investigations, almost 50 years after Christine's murder, no
Speaker:one's been arrested. Nils, Who she has long believed was Christine's killer
Speaker:now is dead. Mike Arnfield adds, one of the most distressing anecdotes
Speaker:is that Christine realized she was being stalked. There was evidence that he'd been in
Speaker:a room. There was a break in where nothing was stolen. And when she reported
Speaker:this, the advice was to get a whistle So that if he does attack, she
Speaker:can call for help. She was dead within a week. No, man. He
Speaker:was named by Christine on the final day of her life as a stalker. There
Speaker:were no drag marks where her body was found suggesting she had gone there willingly.
Speaker:This guy later, that same day, pulled a gun at his work. She could easily
Speaker:have been coerced to that spot with a gun. He then leaves town within 72
Speaker:hours abandoning all his possessions and later refuses to take a
Speaker:polygraph. Mike Arnfield claims Nils would have had access to a
Speaker:scalpel because of his role as a medical researcher. Obviously, remember, surgical
Speaker:tools were found near the site. And he said one of Neil's fellow researchers later
Speaker:made a statement that he'd seen him at the hospital Cleaning a scalpel with a
Speaker:method that remove all DNA and fingerprints. Linda, her best
Speaker:friend, dedicated her life to finding Christine's killer, and police
Speaker:Did once listen to her and tried to track him down, but simply lacked the
Speaker:resources. We'll talk more about that in a second. Her murderer was also
Speaker:falsely linked, Mike believes, to a serial killer. After failing to get justice
Speaker:through police, Linda worked in the remaining years to alert anyone to Niels'
Speaker:whereabouts, particularly when he was close to universities. Without Linda,
Speaker:Mike believes, there would have been more murder to his hands. He added, she really
Speaker:was a saboteur. There would have been many more killings and she really screwed up
Speaker:his plans. And he warns that without more focus on unsolved cases, we could all
Speaker:be heading for more problems. They talk about Niels
Speaker:in the Capital Times in 1968.
Speaker:Ex UW surgeon sought for quiz and coed slang. Capital
Speaker:Times, September 17, 1968 by Irvin Keenan. Hunt
Speaker:in Detroit, New York, Dane County sheriff's officers, and Madison police have
Speaker:turned up what authorities call their hottest tip yet in the Christine Rothschild
Speaker:murder case, Which occurred at the University of Wisconsin campus last May 26th.
Speaker:Sought for questioning is a former surgeon who was dismissed from university hospitals on
Speaker:July 1st. The search for the surgeon has turned to Detroit. 3 officers from
Speaker:Madison were dispatched there Monday. Sheriff Franz Haas has disclosed this morning
Speaker:that he had been touched with the trio this morning, But they had been unable
Speaker:to locate the physician. They reported they had learned possibly he left Detroit
Speaker:for New York City, and he advised the trio to continue the search to New
Speaker:York if necessary in order to question the man. Play specific?
Speaker:Well, this is September 1968. April
Speaker:1968, doctor Martin Luther King is assassinated. We already talked
Speaker:about that Madison had riots because of it. Then obviously,
Speaker:compounded by the Vietnam protest, Detroit And New
Speaker:York had legendary riots after the assassination of doctor
Speaker:Martin Luther King. So if someone is looking for a place
Speaker:Where they can cause trouble, hurt people,
Speaker:and the police are distracted. Detroit and New York City are right
Speaker:up the alley of play specific game. By September
Speaker:21, 1968, Madison detectives gave up on
Speaker:Jorgensen. Detectives and quiz doctor and coed murder,
Speaker:Wisconsin State Journal. A former Madison Hospital employee questioned in
Speaker:New York Thursday by Madison investigators about the May 26th slaying of
Speaker:Rosschild apparently has been, quote, checked out, unquote.
Speaker:The investigators are on their way home. University of Wisconsin police chief
Speaker:Ralph Hanson Said that he heard nothing Friday from the 3 investigators.
Speaker:I can only assume that the man has been checked out and our men are
Speaker:on the way with no more leads to follow out there, he said. The 43
Speaker:year old man who had worked for about 3 months before July 1st at university
Speaker:hospitals was questioned because of reports that he'd been in Anne Emery dormitory area
Speaker:of Langdon Street, May 26th, About 4 AM the time miss
Speaker:Rothschild was last seen alive. He was never a suspect linked to the crime, chief
Speaker:Hansen said. Well, when Mike Arnfield checked on how that
Speaker:Investigation went on Thursday. Jorgensen said that he wasn't feeling well and
Speaker:he'd come into the station on Friday to be questioned by the investigators. Then
Speaker:he never showed up. They went back to his apartment, and he didn't
Speaker:answer the door when they went to follow-up. Then they went home. Wow.
Speaker:Seems highly suspicious. Right. He
Speaker:doesn't show. He doesn't show feel well. Yeah. We'll do the questions, and then when
Speaker:they he's like, oh, come in tomorrow. Okay. He's a doctor. Right? He's not
Speaker:just gonna leave us. Yeah. He's gone. Checks out there.
Speaker:Linda hunts him down for years, tries to find out where she eventually moves to
Speaker:Dallas and Texas, Finds out that he might be in Las Vegas. So then she
Speaker:goes to Las Vegas to find him. His mom dies, eventually moves back to California,
Speaker:and she's kind of tracking him down. She's sending him kinda postcards,
Speaker:Keeping track and letting him know that she And she's on no. And
Speaker:then he eventually just gets too old and dies. Do they think that
Speaker:she thwarted all of his efforts? Well, that's what Michael Arment
Speaker:feels. That because he knew he was being watched Mhmm.
Speaker:That he couldn't really get away with anything anymore. Wow. That's a crazy
Speaker:story. Yeah. You know, also, I mean, he's from, like, the California area,
Speaker:so Hollywood. His mother writes a book About a
Speaker:doctor that kidnaps a woman and kills her. Linda ends up
Speaker:reading the book because it's never really published. It's like only vanity published
Speaker:later on. It almost looks like a confession that she knew her son
Speaker:was a who's a doctor. Yeah. Seems like that. To the murder
Speaker:of women. Wow. That's a If not, that's quite the coincidence.
Speaker:Right. So the Mad City book, it's all written in that kind of
Speaker:hard boiled style, like when I was reading the quotes from it. But it's a
Speaker:worthwhile read because it's interesting to think about these places that
Speaker:you've been that are written about in a true crime fashion. Yep. Just
Speaker:when you're talking about them, talking about Wanakea, I'm thinking I drive down that all
Speaker:the time. I Right. I had my family photos probably in the field where that
Speaker:lady was found Right off of Woodland Drive. And it's terrifying
Speaker:and but Mad City's worth the read if you're from the area and interested in
Speaker:it because it it really it's Really about this woman's hunt for doctor
Speaker:Jorgensen less than connecting these different crimes.
Speaker:Mike Unfield did the legwork. Feels like they Got the
Speaker:perp and then this lady's kind of crusade to
Speaker:Yeah. She had known Christine Rothschild for just a few months
Speaker:Mhmm. Was her good friend, And she was one of the first people that
Speaker:called after her death, obviously, because would she have any
Speaker:clues? Yeah. And she just couldn't believe it because it wasn't just A rant wasn't
Speaker:a car accident. It wasn't even a crime of passion. It was just a
Speaker:stalk murder. Leave a body. It was stabbed 14 times.
Speaker:Gloves shoved in her mouth so she couldn't scream out, and she disconnected the Jorgensen.
Speaker:You said earlier in that news article, Artfield thought that at
Speaker:least Three killers were on loose during that era? Right.
Speaker:Because it would have been, first of all, the southeast Wisconsin killings Correct. What's
Speaker:going on? Chicago and Then you get into Christine Rothschild. Mhmm. You
Speaker:get Deborah Bennett. And then after that, you have
Speaker:Julie Speerscheidder, Deborah Hall, Susan LeMahieu. Yeah. I mean, Susan
Speaker:LeMahieu might have been connected to the guy that threatened the killer, obviously. But then
Speaker:you have several murders in a row that could have been the same person over
Speaker:time. Because Jorgensen was already out by the middle of 1968. July 1st,
Speaker:he's done. He chased them off. Yeah. So then you have several different
Speaker:active killers in this area. The
Speaker:police end their investigation into Jorgensen After he just doesn't
Speaker:show up. Well, okay. Must not be guilty. Might as well come home. These
Speaker:guys, they couldn't have just stuck around New York for a while, like have a
Speaker:piece of pizza. Have a street dog. Give it to something. Go to the Statue
Speaker:of Liberty and then come back to the guy's house. That's not the first time
Speaker:that police kinda screwed up capital city killings. Capital times.
Speaker:Evidence lost in at least 4 Dane County cold cases. The Capitol
Speaker:Times investigation with the handling of evidence in so called cold case homicides
Speaker:was prompted by a tip from a former sheriff's office employee who alleged
Speaker:that evidence room staffers in the 19 eighties were ordered to destroy evidence in a
Speaker:variety of cases, including such major crimes as sex assaults, Vehicular
Speaker:homicides and murders. Inquiries by the Capital Times to the sheriff's
Speaker:office concerning evidence in the unsolved murder cases of 4 young women dating
Speaker:from 1976 to 1981 prompted an internal review
Speaker:within the agency. The probe revealed that the cases of Shirley Stewart,
Speaker:whose body was found in a wooded area in the title Westport 1980, a year
Speaker:after she went missing, Julie Speerschneider, who was missing for 2 years before her
Speaker:skeletal remains were discovered at the time of Dunne, Nearly all evidence had
Speaker:been destroyed. And sheriff's officials had also found key evidence in another case,
Speaker:the 1968 murder of Christine Rothschild had simply
Speaker:been lost. Wondering why these things
Speaker:aren't solved, well, they're not, paying attention to the evidence. The
Speaker:Capital Times initial source who requested anonymity out of concern that blowing the
Speaker:whistle might compromise their job says that sometime in the mid to late eighties,
Speaker:A supervisor in the evidence room ordered a major purge to relieve
Speaker:overcrowding the facility. Of course, the sheriff, in a recent interview,
Speaker:denied that such a widespread purge occurred, But former evidence technician,
Speaker:Lew Molnar, who retired in 1990, he says, oh, yeah. It
Speaker:happened. Yes. So sheriff Moe might even not been there at the time.
Speaker:Crime in the 19 sixties, why was it so difficult? What
Speaker:was going on? We look at the, the average amount of Wisconsin
Speaker:murders in the sixties. 68.4
Speaker:was the average amount per year in the whole state of Wisconsin. I mean,
Speaker:you think about gangland fights, You think about murders over money,
Speaker:and then you think if there's 68 murders happening in a year, and then in
Speaker:Southeast Wisconsin, we have Christine Rothschild, we have those 4 women found near
Speaker:Milwaukee. 10% of those murders are like serial killer
Speaker:murders in the 19 sixties. Yeah. And crime starts
Speaker:going Way high after that, and it continues
Speaker:for 2 decades. By the 19 seventies, murders go up to a 129.5
Speaker:average per year. 19 eighties, a 146.5. And I
Speaker:remember growing up, you'd see on the Milwaukee news, like, every 3 days there'd be
Speaker:a murder. And we talked about that in the Dahmer episode, That there was an
Speaker:epidemic of murders and violent crime in the late
Speaker:eighties, early nineties in Milwaukee. By the nineties, The average goes up
Speaker:to 212.8 murders per
Speaker:year. So from did you say 68 was the first figure? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:Triples in 30 years, and then it starts going down again. By the zeros, it's
Speaker:a 169.7. By the 2000 tens, it rises up a little
Speaker:bit, a 179.5. Why was the
Speaker:jump? You know, what's the reason violent crime might have gone
Speaker:down? We were talking before today that
Speaker:If you had 5 or 6 women
Speaker:brutally murdered, left for dead, bodies found in a ditch
Speaker:Unsolved. Within a few month period now, we would be
Speaker:we'll have the pitchforks out or we'll have guns sitting on our door. Neighborhood watch
Speaker:and Right. You know, don't leave your house after sundown and, you know, be on
Speaker:every social media platform. Those are horror movie statistics.
Speaker:Definitely. And then homicides jumped up, and then they
Speaker:start falling. May of 2001, these
Speaker:researchers, John j Donahue and Steven Levitt, they're economists.
Speaker:They're not criminologists or anything like that. They've got a theory on
Speaker:why they think that Crime has gone down so
Speaker:significantly from the eighties nineties to the 2000 tens and after
Speaker:that. And this is from the Quarterly Journal of Economics, May of
Speaker:2001. The impact of legalized abortion on crime,
Speaker:John j Donahue and Steven Levitt. Steven Levitt became famous for the book called
Speaker:Freakonomics. Mhmm. A number of anecdotal empirical facts
Speaker:support the existence and magnitude of the crime reducing impact of abortion.
Speaker:1st, we see a broad consistency with the timing of legalization of abortion and its
Speaker:secret drop in crime. For example, the peak ages for violent crime are
Speaker:roughly 18 to 24, And crime starts turning down around 1992,
Speaker:roughly the time at which the 1st cohort born following Roe versus Wade would hit
Speaker:its criminal prime. Second, as we later demonstrate, The states
Speaker:that legalized abortion in 1970 saw drops in crime before the
Speaker:other 45 states and the Columbia, which did not allow abortions to the
Speaker:Supreme Court decision in 73. Our more formal analysis shows that
Speaker:higher rates in the states of abortion in 19 seventies, early eighties are strongly
Speaker:linked to lower crime over the period of 1985 to 1997. This
Speaker:finding is true after controlled for a variety of factors and influence such as level
Speaker:of incarceration, number of police, and measures of state's economic well-being.
Speaker:The estimated magnitude of the impact of legalized abortion on crime is large.
Speaker:According to our estimates, states with high rates of abortion have experienced roughly
Speaker:a 30% drop in crime relative to the low abortion region
Speaker:since 1985. While one must be cautious in extrapolating
Speaker:our results out of a sample, The estimates suggest that legalized
Speaker:abortion can account for almost half the observed decline in crime in
Speaker:the United States between 1991 and 1997.
Speaker:That was one theory. Why was it so like, it
Speaker:jumps and then it drops because the criminals didn't
Speaker:get a chance to be alive. The second and this comes in the in
Speaker:the mid 2000. This is Jessica Reyes, and this is from the National Bureau on
Speaker:Economic Research in May 2007. The impact of
Speaker:childhood lead exposure on crime. Do you remember you were a
Speaker:kid and you could still buy unleaded and regular
Speaker:gasoline? I don't remember that, but I remember
Speaker:seeing the signs for unleaded and how it was so
Speaker:prominently. Right. So you have unleaded now you have,
Speaker:like, 3 different kinds of, you know You have 3 different grades, but they're all
Speaker:unleaded. Right. Yeah. It seems like it would go without Saying
Speaker:now that any gas pump you drive up to is gonna be unleaded. Right. You
Speaker:can't buy regular gas. Exactly. When I was kid in the early eighties,
Speaker:They still had unleaded and regular. And the idea is that lead
Speaker:exposure might have done it. So Jessica Reyes writes, There are
Speaker:substantial reasons to expect that a person's lead exposure as a child could affect the
Speaker:likelihood that he might commit a crime as an adult. Childhood lead exposure
Speaker:increases the likelihood of behavioral and cognitive traits such as
Speaker:impulsivity, aggressivity, and low IQ that are strongly associated with
Speaker:criminal behavior. Under the 1970 Clean Air Act, Lead was almost entirely removed
Speaker:from gasoline between 1975 and 85. Children exposed to
Speaker:significant lead in the early seventies may have been more likely to grow up to
Speaker:be impulsive or aggressive adults who committed crimes in the late eighties and early nineties.
Speaker:On the other hand, children born in the eighties who experienced dramatically
Speaker:lower lead exposure after the phase out of lead from gasoline may have
Speaker:been much less likely to commit crimes when they become adults in the late nineties
Speaker:and early 2000. As each cohort approaches adulthood, the sharp declines in lead exposure that
Speaker:occurred declines in lead exposure that occurred between 1975 and 85
Speaker:would be revealed in the behavior as adults. By the year 2020, all
Speaker:adults in their twenties and thirties will have grown up without any direct exposure to
Speaker:gasoline lead in childhood, and their crime rates should be correspondingly
Speaker:lower. Xi constructed a panel of state year observations by linking crime rates
Speaker:in a state in a given year had childhood lead exposure in that state 20
Speaker:or 30 years earlier. The link between lead and crime is thus
Speaker:identified off of the variation of lead exposure in crime over time within the
Speaker:state. Some states got rid of leaded gasoline earlier
Speaker:and so she shows that the crime rate had dropped
Speaker:Before states that had much like the in the states with abortion,
Speaker:the crime rate dropped lower faster than the states who had
Speaker:Taking more time with the lead gasoline. Lead exposure is measured
Speaker:both as lead in gasoline and lead in the air. And these lead exposure measures
Speaker:are tested against individual level blood data on children's level okay.
Speaker:The elasticity of violent crime with respect to childhood lead exposure is
Speaker:estimated to be 0.8. This implies That between
Speaker:1992 and 2002, the phase out of lead from gasoline was responsible
Speaker:for approximately a 56% decline in violent crime.
Speaker:That's significant. Right. So we have 2 studies looking at the
Speaker:statistics of crime and 2 huge things that happened In the
Speaker:US in the 19 seventies, number 1, legalization abortion, number 2, the
Speaker:unleading of gasoline. Mhmm. And what they're using
Speaker:is that state data To show the difference. The show That
Speaker:there is a a correlative trend. They're saying, well, here's one of the
Speaker:reasons that we think it's this, it's because states that changed earlier, Crime dropped
Speaker:faster. Mhmm. We should assume today that crime should keep
Speaker:going down and down and down. We can only hope
Speaker:so. Right? Right. Except this
Speaker:is from Wisconsin Public Radio, Tuesday, March 8,
Speaker:2022. 2021 is the highest number of
Speaker:murders in Wisconsin on record. Wisconsin had
Speaker:315 homicides in 2021. That's a
Speaker:70% increase from 2019.
Speaker:University of Wisconsin Milwaukee criminology professor Theodore Lentz Said
Speaker:he's not surprised violence increased in 2020, 2021.
Speaker:He said people feel like their needs aren't being met and they lack confidence in
Speaker:public safety, which are precursors violence. We kinda had the
Speaker:perfect storm, Lance said. We had the COVID nineteen pandemic, and when you
Speaker:couple that with the massive amount of social unrest that we had, the protests,
Speaker:and additional incidents with police shootings that kinda just kept the spark
Speaker:thriving. Violent crime in the United States peaked in the nineties.
Speaker:Criminologists aren't exactly sure where the crime wave of the 19 nineties slowed
Speaker:even though these economists seem like they have an idea.
Speaker:But criminologists also don't know what will make this spike in
Speaker:homicides go down. Let's say. We talked
Speaker:about the big jump in the seventies to the nineties and
Speaker:then went down big. And now in the past couple of
Speaker:years, it's gone bigger than ever. If
Speaker:we're saying place specific killings, once
Speaker:again, these moments of unrest might
Speaker:offer opportunities to predators. So what
Speaker:I hope is that police have learned the lessons
Speaker:in the past 50 years Since the murder of Christine Rothschild
Speaker:that hopefully, when these kind of things happen again, these guys won't
Speaker:get away with a bunch. Yeah. We can only hope so. Capital city
Speaker:killings, which I had not realized were linked to much
Speaker:more And just the murders around Madison. So if you guys would like to
Speaker:see some of these places that we talked about and the legends in
Speaker:person, you can find more At my haunted history tour
Speaker:company, American Ghost Walks. And if you wanna have a
Speaker:lot of fun on Instagram and Facebook and get news stories almost every
Speaker:single day. Magiland Legends on Instagram and Facebook.
Speaker:I live in Madison, so it is often a topic of
Speaker:my my legends. So stay safe out there, stay weird, and And we'll
Speaker:talk to you next time on Wisconsin Legends
