Have trouble taking time off from your business? 

Well, you’re not alone. A lot of entrepreneurs do. 

Today, we’re not gonna tell you you have to take time off (you already know you should). 

Instead, we’re digging into *why* it's so challenging to take time off. 

And we’ve got some thoughts, like… 

• How we define downtime/time off from the business (it’s not the “laptop lifestyle”)
• How to squash the guilt ridden “entrepreneur martyr thoughts” (like, “I didn’t work hard enough to take time off!”) 
• How we should stop thinking of “downtime” as a reward and more of an essential ingredient to our business’s success 

Head over to iwannacollaborate.com and let us know what you took away from this conversation.

Music credit: The Funkster by Sweet Spot

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Hello and welcome back to the Eavesdrop on this podcast.

I'm Jessica.

I'm Susan.

And today we are going to bring a topic to the table, a very, I think,

timely seeing as we're at the end of June, getting into the thick of summer.

We're gonna talk about this concept of downtime.

And now hear me out.

I know.

it's funny when you get these like seasonal kind of like trendy

topics and it's like, oh my God, I'm so tired of hearing about this.

Like everyone is saying the same thing.

So I wanna dig into, and I think this would be fun for us, Susan, to

talk about this concept of downtime, but here's the asterisk, we're not

gonna talk about like downtime is getting massages and downtime is like

getting a facial or a pedicure, like.

I, I think we all know we need to be taking downtime.

So I think it'd be a fun conversation for us to talk about, like, what does

downtime really look like and why aren't more of us as entrepreneurs taking it?

What do you think?

I so wanna come out of the gate swinging on that one.

I would challenge the whole notion that you just suggested here.

Oh.

Shocking.

I know, right?

So you know, this whole notion that we know.

And I'm gonna come in with a grenade flying right over

ahead and saying, I called bs.

No, you don't because if you knew you wouldn't be doing well, do what?

What, what?

What are you

saying?

People

don't know?

Knew the importance of, of taking time.

Oh, I know.

I know.

Downtime is really good for me and my business and my family.

And we hear that often, right?

Mm-hmm.

And Oh, I know, I know.

And it's like, Well, if you knew you would be doing it because you would

appreciate the actual outcomes of that downtime and how they benefit your

interpersonal personal, professional, and performance in your business.

I mean, the, the improved outcomes are measurable.

This isn't hyperbole.

This is, oh, be nice.

when people hear the concept of downtime, do you think that they

think it's one thing and therefore like, it's like, oh, downtime is going to get

a pedicure and I have time for that.

Like what do you, what do you think people perceive downtime is then?

Yeah, downtime in that scenario, I already can see it.

You're in the pedicure mere chair with your phone, your

tablet, or your Apple watch on.

it has to be radically down, different time, not halfway, but

all the way, at least in my world.

so when myself or my clients, I would truly say unplug, go radical on it.

Grab all the possible potential benefits.

And make them real, make them measurable, and more importantly, really be hyper

aware of when you come back from it and have that be the statement of what you

know, not what you think you know, or you, you are able to recall because everybody's

talking about it and everybody's, you know, repeating you to each other.

Oh yeah, I'm taking down time.

Oh yeah, I'm going, well, you know, how many people have we seen on

boats with their stupid laptops?

Or

I feel like you're talking to me.

It's like I go on a trip and it's like, why's your laptop with you?

I don't know.

Yeah, right.

And didn't I do a happy dance when you were in Mexico and you're like, oh, oh my

gosh, that.

Was like my worst.

Okay.

So years ago I had a nightmare that I went on an international trip.

this is not actual real, but I went on an international trip and it was

like an eight hour flight and I dreamt that I forgot my laptop and I was

like, I'm not gonna get any work done.

And then when I went to Mexico, so I went to Mexico because my

husband earned this sales award.

So his company flew us down there and I was like, great, I can't really take time

off because I've got other stuff going on.

It was a last minute kind of trip because he quickly won the award.

We get down there and for whatever reason, my adapter.

Doesn't work, my plug does not work.

Like nothing I bring with me works to charge my computer.

And my computer is such that my battery, like within two hours of

doing work, it's like it's dead.

So I'm like, I go to the front desk and I'm like, um, do you buy any

chance to have an Apple charger?

And they look at me, they're like, Just a charger.

They're like, no,

lost it, baby.

But they provide desperate behavior.

This is what I'm speaking to, is that a lot.

Look you, you are no different than the rest of us crazies.

That 1% who started their own business from the ground up.

Or lucky enough, you inherited it, one or the other and you

know, it's go, go, go, go, go.

Especially for us Americans, my European clients and listeners, you folks are

a little more chilled on this stuff.

We Americans we're bad.

Woo child.

We are.

Well, I was gonna say, you know, I think I'm such a.

Perfect example.

You know, why the hell not?

I'll just be totally honest.

Like I, it is so hard for me to like, take actual time

off.

But that's, you're making my point for me is that how many times

have we talked with our clients?

Now look, unlike that other person on the podcast here, dear listener, I

actually do leave my electronics behind.

And I'll leave it in the car.

I put the phone in the trunk, I'll close the door to the office and I

don't come back to it till Monday.

you know, if you need to get ahold of me, if there's an earthly emergency,

trust me, short of smoke signals, you're gonna find a way to get ahold of me.

So everything else is relative, right?

But it's important for us to really have that quality time away from.

And I mean all in, not halfway.

It's kind of like this idea that multitasking.

You can go multitasking and Well, I'll be the

first one to tell you.

That does not work.

That's it does

not.

when we first started this business, Jess, we were like, all, all, all, one more.

No, actually three more.

All, all, all in.

And honey, we were, we were going what, 24 7, 365, and three years in.

We felt it.

I mean, Charles, we felt it.

Well, and I think what's interesting is that there's like two

things that I think we can talk about as it relates to taking time off.

It's even like the, the.

I don't know if permission is the right word, but it's like the, I'm planning

to take time off and take actual time off and unplug and maybe that

looks different for different people.

And then there's like the seeing the benefits on the other side.

So I think even just the beginning stage of like, okay.

Okay.

Can I To take time

off?

Yeah.

I think there's another column.

What this whole worthiness or, well

see that's what I was, that's what I was gonna get into.

Yes.

I feel like there's.

As with anything, it's like, okay, so conceptually, Take

time off, just have downtime.

Well, that sounds on the surface so straightforward and so simple,

and yet it's so layered because you just, you, you nailed it.

It's like, okay, so there's the financial component, right?

So some people are in financial situations that you know, such that they cannot,

there's cultural, so American society, broadly speaking, and then there's like

the subcultures underneath that umbrella.

And then there's even like, How women and how women, for example, perceive

like, you know, the, have I earned this, the worthiness around it.

Maybe that's not restricted to gender, but I'm using that as an example cuz I,

well, just speaking from my perspective.

but yeah, let's dig into that whole worthiness thing.

The worthiness is deep, right?

Because, well, I, I, I think we need to bring in, um, belief systems and such

because those individuals that I've worked with, In the past 27 years, in one form or

another with small business, when there's a social or religious, demand upon them,

they'll comply and they'll, walk away from the business, for example, on a Sunday

or Friday Shabbat, those are two readily quick examples on the religious component.

But there's also, this social thing of where.

Oh, I haven't worked hard enough and I can't do it.

I'm gonna miss out.

You know, there's the, you know, the fomo, right?

The fear of missing out.

I'm gonna miss out on an opportunity.

I can't do that.

I'm not, I, I asked the family to gimme a chance to start this, and

I wanna be worthy of that trust and investment and me being able to do this.

And if I don't work 24 7 365, then I'm gonna blow it.

And it's quite frankly everything the opposite of that.

You know, the 24 7, 365, just like multitasking doesn't work.

So to that point, you asked a really good question, well, what does that look like?

on its surface.

It's like well just take time off.

And I think we were just unpacking, it's like, yes, but there's all the feelings

around the concept of taking time off.

And I think for a lot of people taking time off means, there's quite.

Space and time and I'm left to my own thoughts.

And there are certain things that maybe, like, I'm speaking somewhat like

of a personal experience here, but I think a lot of people probably do this.

It's the filling of time, the maintaining of busyness.

not busyness, not that's not leading anywhere, but like

the, the doing of things.

Because I think it's like, well, if I take time off, there's

the guilt, there's the fomo.

There's the stuff I've been avoiding not thinking about, like there's

a lot of, I, I saw it somewhere.

I forget who posted this.

It's not what you're

doing here though, Jess, is you're actually showing what a lot

of folks do in small businesses.

Yeah, we, yeah, went into a negotiation with the self.

Negotiating.

Right.

If I take time off, I won't feel guilty.

If I take time off, I'll be worthy.

I'm worthy of this time, so dang it, I'm doing it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's, it's almost like this is something where I've had to.

Put a significant amount of time and effort in to earn as opposed

to it being something that is like, well of course this is part of the

process rather than the reward.

I think it's the reward.

Yeah.

Scenario that's really a challenge for, for many

entrepreneurs.

Well, I think it because it's a qui pro quo.

If I do this, I'll get that.

If I work my back end.

Off I have earned time off.

That can work for w2, but that will never, ever, ever, ever, ever work.

One more ever for a business owner, solopreneur, entrepreneur.

It just doesn't work.

So

how then should we.

Be approaching it as opposed to the equation of like, okay, I put

X amount of effort and time in and therefore the reward is time off.

How should we then be approaching this concept of downtime and, time

off?

Well, if you had to frame it in a negotiating, if I take time off on

providing creativity and opportunity for my business, following that framework.

Oh, I see, I see, I see.

Yeah.

So as, as opposed to it being like that is something

off to the side that will never do anything for my business.

It is not going to do anything for me.

You're saying it's part of And

baked in.

Yeah.

You can't help but come back revived.

Creative, hungry to get back to it.

inspired, rested.

You know, so when the employee asks you the 10th thousandth question for

the day, you don't pop like a firework.

You know, you, you just go with the roll, right?

It doesn't bother you because you're revived.

You feel better.

You, you want to be there.

You're not required to be there, that's the fruit you get to really harvest.

As a result of taking that downtime.

It's interesting.

Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if I can find this.

There was, someone shared this with me.

It was like a breakdown of how super creative people in our

culture how much time they spend.

Doing creative thing.

Now I'm not equating creative time to, to downtime, but it was really

cool to see a breakdown of how they ended up spending their days.

but in essence what you saw was these were individuals, I'm talking like Mozarts May

Angelou, like really great contributors and thinkers, like they were not.

Working, working, working, working, working all the time.

It was

you, you just can't, look, the really hyper creative can, I don't

ever say, I think we're speaking in general terms here, folks.

Of course.

Yeah, of course.

Um, so I don't wanna say, no, you can't, you know, that doesn't mean, no, not ever.

But on general I think we're both in agreement here with the, the

realization, if I ran a car engine at full bore on the, you were just a

Munich on the, what do you call it?

Oh, the Audubon Aon, okay.

I'm in a fast car and I'm going as fast as humanly.

Possible within reasonable bounds.

Um, and, um,

no, it's the autobahn.

You're supposed to go as fast as you possibly can in those areas,

and they, they demand that of you, by the way, but here's the thing.

I didn't manage the oil.

I didn't manage enough fuel in the tank, so what am I gonna do?

I'm blow that engine and.

Knucklehead as a result, right?

Because it was just a simple gas station stop and a quick check

of the oil, but or the coolant.

Either way, we are the equivalent of that if we're not designed.

Quite frankly, evolutionarily speaking, we have not evolved with

this current lifestyle that we enjoy.

In our human evolution, we're just not.

Um, we're not designed to go 24 7 365 somewhere, but think we know that,

that's what I'm saying at the top of it.

I'm like, I think we, we appreciate that.

And it's like you, you scroll Instagram and you see, I see this all the time.

Yeah.

It's like you know how you have to charge your computer battery?

Like you are like, like I see that stuff all the time.

And that's why

I, I, because the outcome of the downtime is not celebrated.

Okay.

Okay, so

let's take into that.

So when I suggested just a moment ago, yeah.

But we know the outcomes of the downtime.

You come back creative.

How many times have you and I taken a wonderful break and we come back

with three different programs and a new speech or a sales presentation.

Mm-hmm.

And we're stoked.

I mean, it's just like we just reached a whole new level.

Creativity, monetarily, individually, collectively.

I mean, how many, the position here is everybody should take down time.

We all know we should take down time.

We all ed, certain say, yes, we should do that.

But are we?

Mm-hmm.

And I would pretend no, we're not.

And we're not even experts at it.

We know it because, quote unquote, because we hear it as conversation points.

Yeah.

You're gonna take some downtime, so on and so forth.

or it makes like a cute, like quote, like a social media quote.

You know it like, that's what I'm

sayings, way to get me pissed off.

Do that.

But what I'm talking here about is, yeah, but.

It's not just quote unquote feelings.

These are actual measurable outcomes.

When you have down quality, downtime, and I'm talking unplug, go somewhere.

Go for a walk on the beach, go for a walk with your loved one.

Go for a walk with an animal, your pet.

So it's like partially first.

Trying to get more concrete with like, what does downtime look like for you?

And I think that's gonna be very subjective and look

different for everyone.

Like my default is all or nothing.

So for me Instead of being like, okay, so I'm gonna take that full

week off, I'm like, ugh, I can't, like that's that's right now is

not, it's like too big for me.

So instead it's like, okay.

How could I bake that in on a daily basis?

Yeah, I, I'm a huge believer in steady Eddie steps.

So yes, if you're gonna do this, try on Saturday, shutting your phone

off and hiding it, and you can go get it someday or put it away Friday

night once you leave the office.

that's how I became totally agnostic to my cell phone.

it was measurable baby steps and I think, you know, we're

behavior modifying here, right?

And we, we could go down a real deep analytical, rabbit

hole here, but we shunned.

question is really how do I create many.

Shifts that are really not threatening, really.

I can welcome it.

that is a quick one.

If you wanna take a bigger bite out of it, it's really Okay.

What habit drives you batty?

Well, for some it's, I've worked for six months and I haven't had a day off.

Well, nobody likes a martyr, by the way.

PS just, if you know you're saying that, stop it.

Nobody likes a modern, so in that moment, I would say to the person that said that,

I wonder if you could have had two real nice days off in those three month blocks.

You know?

So it really is individualistic.

It's do you wanna take on many steps or big steps?

That is the binary component to that.

I usually ask that, are you ready to take a small step or

a big step into doing this?

I have found, dear listener, the small steps work best.

Those are the ones that really stick.

They're not threatening, they're not overwhelming.

the benefits of it are quickly realized.

and here's how I usually help folks with that jazz is we'll commit to,

you know, just unplug for a day.

I mean no electronics for one day over the weekend.

And then, you know, when I connect back up with our clients, I'll just ask

him, okay, what was the experience you had when you came back to your tablet,

your laptop, your desktop, anything?

What was the experience like?

And it really is telling, it's like seeing things in black and

white and going at all color.

You know, it's really that stark of a again, broad strokes here, but

for the most part, that's a truism.

the folks that have come back and said, you know, I wanna do

radical, Well, that's usually where we build in at least a five days.

Did break during any given quarter.

What we'll do is we'll do a Monday and a Friday, so.

To get them accustomed to that because the go, go go-getters, they're gonna feel

their nervous system go into overdrive.

And that energy is really genuinely overwhelming.

And.

It's unsettling, quite honestly.

Well, and I, I think what you're pointing to, which is, so, you

know, if we take it a step beyond just this concept of downtime, you know,

so much of what we do with our clients and so much of how we approach business

ownership is having self-awareness and awareness of like, okay, so

what is it that you do wanna do?

Awareness of how you tackle challenging things and new things.

What I'm trying to get at, again, I'm speaking generally here.

So like for me, cuz I'm an all or nothing person, you'll be like,

okay, so let's not go for the, like, let's take five full days off.

Let's try like baby steps, right?

So, and I think some pe you know, you have to judge it and have awareness of

your personality and how you approach new things and how you try new things

that are really going to challenge you.

Yeah.

I live for the sum is better than none.

Borderline pragmatic.

but I can be very spur of the moment.

I am a genuine quick start.

If anybody understands coldy, I am a quick start to the extreme.

So, you know, I do like to shift things up and change things up, but

for those clients that are not wired that way, that's really jarring.

That's overwhelming and hard.

So to your point, you have to make it your path, but understand, They don't know it.

And that's the thing I really wanna impress upon everyone listening is that

when you hear a lot of folks collectively say, oh, I know, I know, I know.

Just simply ask, how do you know that, you know, what informs that conviction in that

statement, how do you know that, you know?

And when I've positioned that to folks, it really makes them pause, thankfully.

And they, they go into, well, wait a second.

How do I know that?

I know.

And that's, that's what we're challenging here.

I think Jess mean you just,

yeah.

Well, I think it's such a nice thing to say.

Right.

And downtime.

That's an exam.

This is just an example of it.

Like there's so many of these like kind of things that, like

we know as entrepreneurs, we know we need to take time off.

We know we need to take downtime, but I think it's been, it's been fun to

sort of dig into the like, I mean, it's always the question I love.

It's like, okay, so why aren't we though?

What's, why aren't we doing it if we know we're supposed to?

we do, because in our business, just for the, you know,

dear listener, we meet with clients for the first three weeks of the

month what do we do in the last week?

Well, we're still working.

We're

just not on Yeah, very much work Zoom calls, but we're

permitting and welcoming creativity.

We're shifting those behaviors, right?

So the demand on us is not necessarily client delivering services directly

to our, you know, good clients.

What it is, is, We're actually going into creative mode as

to how can we do this better?

Where will we, that's all creative energy.

That's a big shift.

Well, and I think

it's, I think really what you're getting at here is like the

way that we have interpreted taking downtime and how we approach it is

seeing it not as a separate from, but as a, this is a part of how we should

structure our time on a monthly.

Kind of weekly basis.

So I'm curious, that's like how, what it looks like in the business, but

like how do you foster downtime, which then in turn nurtures creativity?

What's that look like for you?

To me, I do something radically different.

well, I've said it a thousand times so far in our conversation here

today about unplugging, right?

So for me it is definitely putting down.

The cell phone.

but there's also, you know, homemaking, I love cooking and not so much baking.

because I am such a quick start, I love a little dash of that.

And then a little pinch of this baking requires, it's a science, right?

So I am challenging myself, which is occupying my brain

into a different activity.

So, challenge myself to bake a little bit more, have fun with it.

something that I, railed against before because I do love cooking.

but I, I've also had fun discovering baking from scratch

so you're thinking about something different.

Totally.

Okay.

And it's funny you say that cuz I think I have similar activities, but something

recently that I've appreciated in a way that I didn't before was Going out

with people and hanging out with people who are not entrepreneurs themselves.

Yes.

Because we can't talk shop, we can't go into like, you know,

into talking about business.

It's like some of my friends have like, I feel like they

don't even know what I really do.

but it's nice to have conversations.

delicious.

I think it's just delightfully fun because dad and I have had that experience

with our friends in show business.

We're not in show business, but we love them.

And you know, when we get together with them, we don't talk about, Hey,

how did that go producing X, Y, and Z?

We literally it.

We could care less.

We wanted to know, Hey, how was your summer?

Oh, your break.

Right?

So you're having conversations about things that are not, so it

it, I think it interrupts that loop of feeling like it's all you're

thinking about and all you're doing.

Mm-hmm.

And then naturally with any of those activities, whether it's baking,

cooking, or just being around people who aren't doing what you're doing,

what about your gardening?

I think that is a huge diver.

Oh, well I was

just giving a different example of like, okay.

So, you know, I think gardening is, it's one of those where I.

I don't know anything about anything and like you just think it's like

popping a plant in the soil, but there's so much more to creating

like soil that nurtures life.

So it's challenging in that way and then it just gives you a different

sense of like, okay, I'm adding this into my routine thoughtfully.

When we think of, we go back to the intention and sort of wrap up.

It's like I think people perceive downtime as like, I gotta take

like two weeks off and I gotta go do this crazy, crazy ass trip.

It's like, well actually no.

And I think we were just touch touching on it.

I think we see just tangibly the little moments where we do take

downtime, how it's benefiting us.

And I also,

I think what we're uncovering here too, Jess, in our conversation is that.

Downtime is not sitting on a lounge chair next to the pool,

sweating and reading a book and getting a good sun tanner burning.

Right.

it's just downtime away from what you do day to day.

And that to me it makes for an interesting person.

Oh yes.

Yeah.

You know, I love that.

I think that's a great

place to end it.

Yeah.

Fun fleshing that out.

I know it's, it's like I, if I see one more person on Facebook

say, we should take downtime, I'm like, okay, there's so much more.

I'm glad we unpacked that today.

It felt good.

It was necessary and fun.

So thank you dear listener.

catches next time.

We'll see you on the next episode.