What does it take to stay completely focused when you’re driving more than 200 miles an hour?

For Katherine Legge, the surprising answer is that the race car may be one of the places where her mind feels clearest. In this episode, Katherine takes us inside the physical and mental demands of professional racing.

I had a chance to talk with Katherine shortly before she became the first woman to attempt racing in the Indianapolis 500 and Coca-Cola 600 on the same day, joining an incredibly small group of drivers to attempt “the Double.” We talk about the differences between NASCAR and IndyCar, the role of women in motor sports, and the way that the e.l.f. sponsorship has changed things for her as a driver.

• Why “Why not?” became Katherine’s answer to taking the risk (07:02)
• What racing two completely different cars actually feels like (09:23)
• Why speed brings Katherine an unusual sense of focus (14:27)
• How one bold career move put her on the motorsports map (27:02)
• How Katherine hopes to open doors for the next generation (43:58)

There’s plenty here for racing fans, but Katherine’s perspective reaches well beyond motorsports. It’s about preparation, trusting yourself under pressure, and saying yes when the opportunity in front of you may never come again.

Katherine’s career is a reminder that progress rarely happens in a straight line. There are great moments, awful moments and a lot of getting back up in between. Subscribe to Things No One Tells You for more conversations like this, and if you’re enjoying the show, a rating or review helps others find it, too.

You can watch this interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/FVZpfQI7ZDQ

For a full transcript and more, check out our blog post: https://www.lindsaycz.com/show-notes/katherine-legge-53

Check out more from Katherine Legge on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/katherineracing

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[00:00:08] Katherine: It's been such a rollercoaster, like great times, terrible times, great times. Yeah. Like, it's life. It's just, it's- It knocks you down, you get back up, and then you have other great moments, and you have other awful moments, and that's what living's all about

[00:00:25] Welcome to this episode of Things No One Tells You. This one is really exciting because we are talking about women in sports, which I love. My episode today is with IndyCar driver and NASCAR driver Katherine Legge. Katherine is a trailblazer, but she is very quick to give credit and pay respect to those that have come before her in motorsports, and there have not been that many, but there certainly have been those that have helped pave the way.

[00:01:22] Everything she does requires an exorbitant amount of talent, but also, like, mental toughness. And here's what. Coming into this year, Katherine embarked on doing the double, which meant that she was going to race the Indy 500, which is the biggest race in IndyCar, and then she was going to that very day hop in a helicopter to get to a plane to get to another helicopter to get to the racetrack in Charlotte, North Carolina, to race in the Coca-Cola 600.

[00:02:12] Ended up finishing 31st in Charlotte. But Katherine talks in this episode not just about that day, but just about her journey as a race car driver. And she really has a bright future ahead. She's super versatile in the world of motorsports, meaning, like, she can really drive so many different types of things.

[00:02:52] She's amazing. I hope you guys love this episode as much as I loved recording it. So what goes through your mind at this point when you have the Indy 500 right around the corner? What's it like?

[00:03:14] Right? Like car setup, watching old races, looking at the rules, because I'm not full-time in any series. So I have to refresh my memory and think about all of the different minutiae that go along with just driving the race car. Driving the race car part is easy. So I hope I've thought of all the things that I need to think of.

[00:04:02] And so being me, I always stick my two cents in. But,

[00:04:08] Katherine: I let them ...

[00:04:12] Katherine: I do, but I don't. I love logistics. Like, it fascinates me, like putting-

[00:04:18] Katherine: Yeah.

[00:04:19] Katherine: It's like a puzzle. So I'm just interested in it, and I think it's a really fun project, right, to be part of.

[00:04:34] Lindsay: To make it all be able to happen.

[00:04:53] Lindsay: So, and you're talking about the double.

[00:04:56] Lindsay: You are now the sixth driver to attempt the double, meaning you're gonna race in the Indy 500. And then you're going to get on that air travel and go to the Coca-Cola 600. What is most exciting about that to you?

[00:05:19] I hope that means completing both races. To be able to say you've done Indy, this is my fifth time doing the Indy 500. To be able to get the opportunity to do Indy is no mean feat in itself, right? Like, it doesn't escape me how lucky I am and how blessed I am to be able to say I'm doing the Indy 500, first and foremost.

[00:06:01] I'm gonna go with, like, 300, 350, something like that. Yeah. In the world. Yes. Right?

[00:06:06] Katherine: I don't know. We'll Google it later. But then,t o be able to do Charlotte, same deal. To be able to do both on the same day, I'll be the sixth person to ever attempt it. Only one person's completed it all, and that's Tony Stewart.

[00:06:22] Katherine: Was it 2001? Oof.

[00:06:26] Katherine: 25 years ago. No. I read a couple of articles that he had been quoted in about it, and I reached out, and he's gonna be in Indy doing TV stuff. So I'm gonna go and be like, "Excuse me, Mr. Stewart." I spoke to Kyle, though.

[00:06:58] Lindsay: Why was it so important to you to do it?

[00:07:05] And I keep going back to it, I don't have a good answer for it. I just think, "Why not?" Like, is it one of the greatest feats in racing? Yeah, it's really cool, right? Like, it's a challenge on so many different fronts, physically, mentally, logistically. It's a test of the equipment, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:07:47] Lindsay: So versatile,

[00:08:05] Lindsay: So what is it like getting ready for that?

[00:08:12] Katherine: I think it's just organized. You know, just having calm peace of mind knowing that everything's handled and taken care of, which means organized, and that you've got lists. We've got so many different things that we need to take care of, that I feel like as long as we're ticking them off, it's okay.

[00:09:03] Lindsay: Wish you were multitasking.

[00:09:05] Lindsay: Do you- can you put into comparison what it is like for people that will never be inside of a race car, since you know so closely what it's like in both worlds, to go from an IndyCar in it, in the race, to a stock car?

[00:09:29] You've got downforce. It's heavy. It's fast. It's direct. It's- It's abusive in a different way. Like, you are laying down. It's very much like... I don't know how to describe it. It's very refined. It's very, like, a solid feeling.

[00:10:02] Because of the downforce, you can't get right up behind somebody without losing air, and the car washes out. So you have to time runs on people to overtake them, and it's more you have to think about strategy a little bit more. You've got a deploy on the hybrid that you can use to try and get a little bit of extra power.

[00:10:44] Lindsay: And to do 1,100 miles, you've gotta be physically, like, in the best shape possible.

[00:10:52] Katherine: Right? Like- I think so. I spoke to Kyle about it, and he said that physically he didn't struggle with it at all. So I think as long as I've got the nutrition dialed in, I've got electrolytes, I'm gonna get an IV on the plane. I... We're thinking about eating baby food during the 600-mile race 'cause it's the only thing that you can, like, squeeze into your mouth.

[00:11:34] So I'm gonna probably have around a 4,000 to 5,000 calorie deficit day.

[00:11:41] Katherine: Right, which is kinda crazy to think about. But if you think about it like that, and then all the fluids that you lose. So you have to make sure you're hydrated, and you've got all the electrolytes and everything else. So we'll see.

[00:12:05] Lindsay: But I like that. So your strategy is you will get an IV on the plane from Indianapolis to Charlotte. Yeah. And then you will get down, and it's just back to business once you hit the ground there.

[00:12:16] Lindsay: Back to Indy, what is it like driving around that racetrack when you are starting the Indy 500 and just understanding that it is a different type of experience with a lot of tradition that goes on?

[00:12:35] It's unique. It's obviously the largest sporting event in the world in terms of attendance.

[00:13:08] It's just the h- the people and the having fun, and it's like I- it's almost palpable. And so when you get ready to start the race, you've got all the pageantry. You've got the flyover. You've got Back Home Again Indiana being sung, and the, and then somebody super famous like Kelly Clarkson sings the anthem.

[00:13:53] And the amount of turbulence you get coming off the other cars, the further back you are, it is wild. Really? Like, your car is moving around. You can't do anything about it. It's just being blown around. Your head's being blown around.

[00:14:07] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. It's a bizarre, very bizarre feeling.

[00:14:27] Lindsay: When you feel your mind start to go to other places, what is the tool that gets you back to your focus zone?

[00:14:38] Like, you're not driving at 230 miles an hour thinking, "Ooh, I really fancy doing barbecue chicken tonight."

[00:14:47] Katherine: No, never.

[00:14:51] Katherine: You would be?

[00:14:56] Katherine: I do. I have ADHD.

[00:15:00] Lindsay: I wonder if-

[00:15:02] Lindsay: Yeah, that's.

[00:15:04] Lindsay: Yeah ...

[00:15:06] Lindsay: You've harnessed ...

[00:15:24] If I'm not under those constraints, then I am bouncing around all over the place.

[00:15:35] Katherine: Oh, crikey. I mean, it would be life-changing; it would change the face of motorsport, I think. It would change my life. It would be a dream come true.

[00:16:01] Lindsay: No, you say that.

[00:16:07] Lindsay: Really? Yeah. Because you'd have to stay to celebrate, or because you'd need to soak up the moment?

[00:16:18] Lindsay: Oh, God, no. And you said it, I mean, it would be life-changing. Yeah. Every driver says that. For you, if thinking about that, something down the road potentially, what do you think that would look like?

[00:16:59] Like, if you look at Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt and Al Unser, and, like, you think of that list of names, like wouldn't it, to have your face on the Borg-Warner trophy would be something incredibly special.

[00:17:18] Katherine: Whoosh.

[00:17:22] Lindsay: I have some rapid fire. These are things that are on our minds, okay? Okay. What do you eat on race day?

[00:17:40] So, you have to have something incredibly sort of simple, so as not to mess your stomach up. Or I do, because my stomach gets messed up easily. So if you've been carb loading for a couple of days before, it's, make sure you have some protein; make sure you have some energy in the, like, carb world.

[00:18:28] Like car sickness. Yeah. So I'm gonna have to wait a period of time before I eat on the plane, but then also make sure I eat in advance of getting it, and little and often, which is difficult because I'm gonna be in the car. So we're talking about the goo packets and the gummies and stuff like that, that have been tried and tested, and we're also gonna try on Friday in the IndyCar practice just to make sure it doesn't make me sick.

[00:19:06] Lindsay: How do you train for such a grueling challenge?

[00:19:13] Lindsay: Always.

[00:19:14] Lindsay: The CrossFit that you said,

[00:19:30] I used to run a lot. I don't; I've stopped running quite as much, because I think I was running off all my muscle. So, I do less cardio now, and the cardio I do is shorter, higher-intensity stuff. I'm hoping that doesn't hurt me on this endurance journey. But, yeah, I'm always active.

[00:20:06] Lindsay: What's it like in your CrossFit community group? People know what you do.

[00:20:10] Lindsay: What is that like?

[00:20:17] It's, they ask me how my weekend's gone, and sometimes if it hasn't gone well, they'll just leave me alone. But it's, yeah, it just feels normal. I don't know any difference.

[00:20:33] Katherine: I don't need to go because you get so dehydrated, like you use all the liquids that you have.

[00:21:02] Lindsay: Things that you can't live without, whether it's in your sports life, everyday life, or otherwise.

[00:21:09] Lindsay: Oh.

[00:21:14] Lindsay: Barley.

[00:21:27] Lindsay: Aw.

[00:21:29] Katherine: Sometimes she does, yeah. It's the last couple of Indy 500s she's come with me. This time she did not, and it would've been hard anyway to navigate what we did with her over the course of going backwards and forwards, and somebody would be responsible for her, and then I'd worry.

[00:22:00] Lindsay: She's got a separate fam.

[00:22:03] Lindsay: What does she bring to your life?

[00:22:17] Katherine: Oh, I think anybody who has pets knows the kinda peace and calm that they bring, right? She's my partner in crime, adventure buddy.

[00:22:47] They, you can't argue with them about how to load a dishwasher.

[00:22:55] Katherine: Not really.

[00:23:01] Katherine: I had a friend who had a relationship-breaking argument about how to load a dishwasher, so that's my go-to thing now.

[00:23:11] Lindsay: I get it. You know a lot about dogs. Yeah. Like, you could be

[00:23:16] Lindsay: Professional animal-

[00:23:33] So she is impeccably trained because I had an abundance of time and treats.

[00:23:44] Katherine: Yeah, for sure, yeah.

[00:23:47] Katherine: I ran over something and hit a wall at 180 miles an hour, and the car crashed, like, into me. And so- the pedals were here, the steering wheel was here. I was, like, crushed; everything. They had to cut me out. Helicoptered me to a medical, to a military hospital

[00:24:05] Katherine: Yeah, I remember waking up butt naked on the metal medical table, coming out of the helicopter thinking, "Oh, God, I wish they'd just put me to sleep again."

[00:24:22] Lindsay: And then what goes through your mind? Did you- how long did it take for you to think about getting back in a race car?

[00:24:35] Are my legs gonna be strong enough? Will I be able to train? When will I be able to train? I wanted to do Le Mans that year.

[00:25:07] And they were like, "No, you're in a wheelchair. What are you doing?" And so I lifted myself out of the wheelchair into the Ferrari Challenge car, and I drove it, and I was like, "Okay, I still got it." Like, I'm not scared of it. We're good. We can do this. And then that gave me the motivation to do all the rehab and come back, you know?

[00:25:27] Katherine: It was during.

[00:25:31] Katherine: Lonely. It was... I'm very independent, and it was infuriating. My parents- so my dad was in France at the time, which is where I broke them. And so he helped get me to rehab, and then my fiancé at the time got me back to the States, and then my parents both came over to look after me because they had to take it in turns.

[00:25:58] Lindsay: Wow.

[00:26:00] Lindsay: And hence the time that you really spent with

[00:26:03] Lindsay: With your dog. We bonded. Training your dog.

[00:26:12] Katherine: Oh, when I was a little kid, I wanted to do something crazy like be a fighter pilot or an economist and work on the trading floor and do something adrenaline-based.

[00:26:43] But it also didn't occur to me that I couldn't be either, so I just kind of kept trying.

[00:26:54] Katherine: Yep, and taking every opportunity that comes.

[00:27:02] Katherine: Oh, 100%, meeting Kevin Kalkhoven and his family. So, Kevin Kalkhoven, who owned the IndyCar series back then and, a- and a team, was in England buying Cosworth from Ford. They were like the sporty version of Ford back then. They were the, I don't know, Lexus to the Toyota kinda deal. And, he sold his company for billions of dollars, and he was this really high-powered businessman buying this big company.

[00:27:53] Lindsay: What was your plan?

[00:28:06] I don't know. I don't know if I had a plan. I was, like, 20 years old, and, yeah, I was very shy, and so it took every ounce of gumption that I had to go to those offices. And I was like, "Okay, I'll wait for him." 'Cause I was thinking, "He's gonna be in and out of meetings, and he's gonna be coming out to get lunch or whatever.

[00:28:40] Lindsay: To just kind of, like, take care of your-

[00:28:53] Lindsay: Do you remember what you were wearing?

[00:29:19] And they said, "Dad..." Kirsty said, "Dad, you should really just meet her for five minutes." And so he came in, and he met me, and I was like, "I r- I really want to race in America. I've been doing this. I'll make you proud. Like, please tell me what to do. Follow that." 'Cause

[00:29:35] Katherine: In Europe. Yeah. 'Cause I'm British.

[00:29:37] Katherine: And, and he was like, "Yeah, okay, crazy English lady." And I gave him my resume, and I left, and I cried on the way home, and I called my dad, 'cause you could use cell phones in the car back then, right? And I was like, "I don't think that's gonna work." And it was kind of my last-ditch attempt at trying to make a thing of racing.

[00:30:00] Lindsay: UK.

[00:30:28] And they said, "Hey, can you be in Phoenix on Tuesday? Because Kevin Kalkhoven wants us to test you."

[00:30:37] Katherine: So I called my dad again, and I was like, "Hey, so I'm gonna need a plane fare to Phoenix." And, so he lent me the money to-

[00:30:51] Katherine: I don't remember. I don't remember it being anything... My dad's so chill and, like, level. He'll be like, "Right, right, okay, yeah. Oh, how much is a plane ticket?" Kind of a deal, like, not like, "Oh my God, this is amazing." Just very level and matter-of-fact. And so I go to Phoenix, and I do a good job, and the team sends a report to Kevin saying, "She's good," like, "We should give her a chance."

[00:31:41] I was the first woman to win a major open-wheel race in North America. I have a star on Long Beach Boulevard there now. And that kind of was the springboard to... I won another three races that year, finished on the podium, like, five times, and finished third in the championship, and got the opportunity to drive the F1 car at the end of that year and then do a shootout for the Champ Car ride, which I won for the following year.

[00:32:16] Lindsay: So in terms of a thing no one tells you, what is a thing no one tells you that you've experienced?

[00:32:29] And if you don't put yourself out there, nothing will happen. You have to create your own opportunities. I mean, there's a lot of luck in this world, but you have to also be in the right place at the right time and create those opportunities. And as soon as you get comfortable again, then they start to dry up.

[00:32:55] Lindsay: Oh, that's good. When you won Long Beach, what was that moment like?

[00:33:15] It was, like, validation and relief and all of the things, right?

[00:33:27] Katherine: It's been such a rollercoaster. Like, great times, terrible times, great times.

[00:33:32] Katherine: It's life. It's just, it's- It knocks you down, you get back up, and then you have other great moments, and you have other awful moments, and that's what living's all about.

[00:34:04] And then when I showed up there, I saw with my own eyes, like you said the word palpable before, the excitement, like, around you and watching, like... Oh, I'm not gonna cry. But, like, the girls. Do you know what I mean?

[00:34:20] Lindsay: The solidarity ... the solidarity, like, you could feel it.

[00:34:22] Lindsay: It was, and it wasn't just within the e.l.f., you know, created garage that they had as the activation.

[00:34:45] Lindsay: Yeah

[00:35:03] So I think the fact that- there was like this energy that just kept snowballing down the mountain of, you know, we- our engine blew up unfortunately like 10 laps into the race, so I was out pretty early, and the crowd was on their feet for like 10 minutes. I,

[00:35:21] Katherine: It was incredible. And like it just sets off this whole thing where they feel like they have a sister in me.

[00:35:58] And still, I don't wanna speak for every woman or every female race car driver. Yeah. But it definitely felt like they were, for the first time, recognized that they were there because most of the time it's a man's sport and they're advertised to by male-oriented companies.

[00:36:18] I think that's a big difference.

[00:36:34] Lindsay: So, it's like they were celebrating. It's like they're, it's like being seen.

[00:36:56] Because it was... And I remember, and I said to one of the girls, "Oh, have you met Katherine before?" "No." Like- none of... Do you know what I mean? Like, they, they- just were there because they were so, and they were taking pictures of the makeup.

[00:37:09] Lindsay: that you had on top of the garage. Yeah. And then when you got out of the race, as you said, I mean, I remember you, like, fist pumping, but then that, you could hear it and feel it.

[00:37:19] Lindsay: Yeah.

[00:37:30] Lindsay: Yeah, and you're still pushing that wave and moving that forward.

[00:37:34] Lindsay: There aren't a lot of women, though, behind you- nope

[00:37:43] Katherine: I think, you know, everybody says the landscape's changing. In the world, there are more women CEOs; there are more women presidents or prime ministers or whatever you are, depending on wherever you are. But in racing it's got worse, right?

[00:38:20] Nobody is doing super well in the Xfinity Series on the NASCAR side or the Indy Lights series over here. There was one, and she went back to Europe. So I think we're probably four or five years out at minimum until the next Danica, Katherine, Sarah, whoever. That's not long at all. Yeah, and it's honestly disappointing because you would think that there'd be more and more as it became more accessible.

[00:38:52] And then that morphed into the F1 Academy when the Formula 1 organization took it on, and that's an all-women series. And so it kind- They sucked all the oxygen out of the air. They took any of the young, promising female drivers over to do that, with the claim that it would make...

[00:39:42] What has, in all reality, happened so far, and I hope it changes, is that they created this, like, rah-rah championship for women that you can only do for a couple of years at a time and then you have to move on, and it's got age restrictions and everything else. So it's not like a women's sport. It's like a stepping stone that kind of, in my opinion, halts your progress or, like, pulls it back a little bit because- Jamie, who won the W Series two years in a row, I believe.

[00:40:43] It's a reflection on the system that has created this. You know, like, "Oh, there, pat on the head. "You can be a, you can be our PR rep for, you know, representing women because we're all about diversity." It's not real. It's not like they're putting money in them doing F3, F2, F1.

[00:41:09] Katherine: If you look at it, to be the best, you have to beat the best. I mean, that's self-explanatory. But if you look at it over history, you had Janet Guthrie, Lyn St. James, Sarah Fisher, Danica, me, Simona.

[00:41:45] But I also think that it's kind of stunted their growth, and it's created this big gap in top-level motorsports that is now completely void of women. There is not any. There are a few sports cars. There's Lilou Wadoux. There's the Iron Dames, and then there's Jamie. And, like, the fact that I can name them, on the one hand, of the women drivers that I respect at the top level, is disgusting, right?

[00:42:48] Lindsay: What do you think the solution is? I mean, especially when, you know, girls and women can look up, and they can see you doing two series in one weekend. Yeah. Doing all this, so versatile in the different types of racing. How would you fix it?

[00:43:09] You want to believe that you can make it to Formula 1, so I understand why they do it. They're also, you know, the access to all these people at Formula 1 weekends is a good enough reason to as well, to prove you're the, that you're the best at something. I honestly don't fault them at all, and I support…

[00:43:58] Maybe they don't want to. Maybe they don't like IndyCar or NASCAR. I don't know. But We're kind of taking things into our own hands a little bit over here in North America, and that is Lyn St. James, who has always been obviously very supportive of lots of women in racing. She's creating programs and systems to help these young girls navigate the racing landscape.

[00:44:56] Do it this way instead."

[00:45:07] Katherine: Well.

[00:45:08] Katherine: We have one already, and we have a couple in mind. We have one that we're working with in the NASCAR kind of arena, in that she's doing ARCA, she's doing Trans-Am, she's doing a bunch of Sprint Car stuff.

[00:45:46] Lindsay: Yeah.

[00:45:55] Lindsay: It's a sisterhood though. You're creating a sisterhood, for real.

[00:46:07] Because I also don't claim to speak for women in racing, because I would never want to take their uniqueness away from them. Like, Laney can do it her way-

[00:46:26] 'Cause I remember coming up, I was compared to Sarah and Danica and all the things. I'm like, "We're drivers. You don't compare me to Jenson Button or Lewis Hamilton, unfortunately." Right,

[00:46:39] Katherine: So I wanna, I want to walk that tightrope that is being sexist in a different way. Because, you know- you've gotta- it's just, it's such a hard thing to dance around because you want to be supportive of them.

[00:47:13] Lindsay: I mean, if they say that.

[00:47:18] Lindsay: but you help male drivers also

[00:47:20] Lindsay: No, you're right, 'cause you're a good person. Well, okay. Lastly, what is your favorite moment on the racetrack? After all these years, what is the thing that still lights you up when you're-

[00:47:44] You're like, "I have the coolest job in the world. This is pretty awesome." And it's just a reminder before you get into the nitty-gritty of the weekend. '

[00:47:55] Katherine: It's just, like, "This is so cool." Before you're worried about understeer or pit stops or whatever else it is, like trying to dial the car in, how much hybrid you're gonna use, whatever it is.

[00:48:13] Lindsay: I love how Katherine is just so obsessed with her dog, Barley. And, you know, watching Katherine that day racing in the Indy 500 and then going to the Coca-Cola 600, the same thing happened.

[00:49:01] So if you liked this episode, which I hope you did, I hope that you will like, subscribe, rate, review, and as we always say, share the episode with a friend. For our team here at TNOTY Producer Ashley, Editor Sam, Brand Manager Sarah we wanna say thank you for watching, for listening. Send us your ideas.