Photographers, gallery co-curators, and dads Richard Colon and Quajay Donnell join host Emily Hessney Lynch for a conversation about photography, Rochester, community, and fatherhood. In the first half of the show, we discuss how photographing different parts of Rochester helped them get to know the city, their goals of prioritizing community over competition and uplifting underrepresented artists with Behind the Glass Gallery, and how normal it's become to meet people from the internet IRL.

During the second half of our conversation, we explore their different experiences of fatherhood during different decades of their lives, how other dads just *get it*, and how sometimes you just have to bounce in the bounce house, even in your 40s.

For more, check out:

• Behind the Glass Gallery Instagram
• Quajay's Instagram
• Richard's Instagram
• Behind the Glass Gallery podcast
• Emily's Instagram

This is a production of the Lunchador Podcast Network. Our logo was created by Tenderchomps Art.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Murphys Rank The World

Meghan, Skye and Tim know you have a lot of choices in life. That's why they're undertaking the herculean task of ranking the world! Join the siblings Murphy as they rank everything from sandwiches to cryptids in their neverending quest to help you find the best. Find it where you get your podcasts!

We were setting up for a gallery and I look over and one of the twins is like jumping out of his car seat full bore. He's about to go out and Rob is like, "yo! yo! your son!" And then Richard turns and he's about to react.

And so he sees Richard about to react to catch him and then loses it. He's like, "I don't want Richard." Like, you know, he can't talk, but he's like, don't get near me. But he was also like taking a full on jump.

So that understanding like, or, "hey, man, I gotta take the kids home. Like, I'm gonna cut out of here early." There's no judgment.

Hello and welcome to It's a Lot, a podcast about things that are a lot. On this show, we have honest conversations about the highs and lows of social media, parenthood and more. When it comes to complex topics, online discourse can lack nuance and empathy.

That's why we're leaning into deep conversations, making space for conflicting, messy feelings and keeping it real about how we feel. We could all use a little more of that sometimes.

I'm your host, Emily Hessney Lynch, and today I'm excited to be talking to TWO guests for the first time ever, Richard Colon and Quajay Donnell. Richard and Quajay have a lot in common. They're both photographers, Rochesterians, curators of behind the Glass gallery, podcasters, and dads.

So I'm really looking forward to talking about all the ways those things intersect. You can follow Richard, Quajay, and Behind the Glass on Instagram, I'll put those links in the show notes. and make sure to listen to Behind the Glass podcast as well. And stop by the gallery in person! It's located in the Merc on Main in downtown Rochester. Super excited to dive in, guys. Richard, Quajay, welcome to the show.

Wow, that's a really good introduction.

That was a great introduction, man.

I love it.

We don't even do that for our artists like that. Damn.

How does it feel to be on the other side of the mic tonight, guys?

It's pretty weird.

Yeah. And to be honest, same studio, different.

Seats, but still feel at home here. So I'm excited.

Well, for starters, I'd love to just hear about how you both got into photography and what kind of stuff you like to shoot.

Writing was my first love. Photography came soon after, so I've been taking photographs as long as I can remember.

You know, became the family historian, if you will, documentation person and, you know, worked at a newspaper for a number of years when I was 16. And that kind of really allowed me to get really deep into photography.

And photography has always been one of those things that I've kind of done and then gone away from and done again. And, you know, this is the. The era that I'm in right now is like, I'm back into it for the last, like, six or seven years.

And I love to kind of document things that are important to me and my family in Rochester. So that could be public art, that could be community spaces, that could be folks, you know, enjoying themselves in Rochester. So that's me.

Love it.

Myself, I didn't really get into photography until my adult life. My father was about 30 years into Kodak, you know, in city of Rochester, and, and I never really tapped into it.

When he came home with different things, he would bring home cameras, bring home different types of merch and really cool stuff that I didn't really know about until I got older and I started really getting into tech and technology. And it wasn't until I started getting really into cell phones, smartphones, and just them having the best camera.

And so it just turned into my love of just documenting stuff on the go. Whether street art, whether it's, you know, street photography, bodegas, a lot of things in the city of Rochester.

I love documenting that people I felt that online didn't really didn't know about or didn't venture to. And it was during COVID during that time where Quajay and I built up a friendship online, where we started liking each other's pictures.

I think it was through Twitter and we really.

RIP Twitter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, God. RIP. We really vibed. I know, Emily, you missed Twitter too. Yeah, the old Twitter. But, yeah, it was the days.

And yeah, so we, you know, vied with a lot of the stuff we were sharing, whether we're street art or just, you know, just regular street scenes of just what I was documenting.

And we built up that love for being able to showcase that and spread that awareness of Rochester has a lot of great scenes, a lot of great, vibrant street art that we felt a lot of people needed to see.

I love that Twitter community we all had just a few years ago before it all went down the drain.

Oh, geez. Rochester Twitter.

Can you both talk a little bit about how it helped you get to know Rochester to go out and do this photography? like, what role did it play in that journey?

I think the difference between me and Richard here is, you know, he's born and raised, and so the way he sees Rochester is a little bit different. But for me, it allowed me to just get out and explore community, you know. So I've been in Rochester for this, probably year 18, I think. And it was only supposed to be a few years. And those first few years, first probably seven years I was in Rochester. A lot of times when I wanted to do something, I left town.

So I'd go back down to New York City. I'd go to D.C. i'd go to, you know, just back home to Connecticut. And that's where I was finding the things that I was comfortable and familiar with.

And then one day I opened my eyes in Rochester. I was like, "oh, wow, this is a really cool coffee shop." Or, "wow, look at that art on the side of a building." And that art took me somewhere else and, you know, got involved with or at least started to follow WALL\THERAPY and other local artists. And that took me to different areas of Rochester. And it, to me, it was more than just the High Falls and Kodak Tower, Highland park, those things that I think folks often, you know, associate with Rochester. And it started taking me into neighborhoods and seeing people and seeing community and getting to know. Getting to know folks.

So that's how photography really introduced me to Rochester. But then the photo community, right? So as you share photos and people are engaged with it, you know, obviously we talked about the old Twitter, but that was, you know, a huge piece of that network.

And originally where you would connect with someone on Twitter, and then now you're at Ugly Duck having a cup of coffee with someone, or, you know, you're on a photo walk, or then, you know, Instagram, the same thing. People having these conversations and building community.

And what's crazy is you, you brought up something that I was gonna actually just tie into as well.

Because I think what's special about the community we have here, the art community, is that it's ever changing and evolving. And I feel like since COVID it grew so fast. And as it grew, I believe, you know, myself and Quajay grew with it.

So with that came with building up, you know, relationships, building up a community of people that we were around, that we wanted to you know, document with or document of or go and that they had going on. So because of that, it just grew even bigger. And we just wanted to, in a way, snowball that effect and keep it going.

And I think that's where we came into, you know, spoiler alert. The behind the Glass gallery, you know, where we wanted to start. You know what, let's, let's find a stage, a place where we can now showcase other people. Because there's people in Rochester...just like we felt there was photography or scenes in Rochester that we felt that people needed to see, we also felt there were people in Rochester that were important in the community, in the art space that we felt they needed to see as well. And so that's where behind the Glass came into fruition.

Because, you know, we wanted that space where it wasn't my work, wasn't Quajay's work, it was actually people that were underrepresented, that never had a chance to be in a gallery or they have minimum exposure to a gallery. Maybe they were in a space one time before.

We just wanted to give them that space to, you know, be presented for a, you know, for a whole month, have a first Friday reception and then also, just like we're doing right now, talk to them in a podcast network. Shout out to the Lunchador Podcast Network.

We wanted to actually use that space to other platform to actually give them that voice as well, for them to talk about, you know, why they do what we're doing and you know, why, you know, what they're bringing to the gallery and you know, how they feel about being part of a reception and the whole nine yards. You know, we wanted to give them that whole red carpet treatment.

That's really cool. I feel like you both do such a valuable service for the community just for the love of the photography and just the love of the community itself too, both the documenting and the bringing people together in the gallery. It's really cool.

Thank you.

You set me up with a nice transition there, Richard. So I wanted to hear more about the gallery. Can you talk a little more about like how you choose the artists you feature and maybe any favorite shows in the past?

Well, favorite shows in the past, we'd have folks blow us up about that one. I think what's cool about the gallery is it was not supposed to be what it is today. It was supposed to be a, a one month display of work.

And, you know, Richard went in with this idea and then it became, well, we could do this, you know, every month and we'll bring in three artists because originally, like he was talking about, we just wanted to showcase all of our favorite people, all of our favorite photographers and visual artists in some way and like kind of a group show, everyone puts up a piece.

And we found that, hey, there's this opportunity for us to come into this space and really make it our own and, you know, bring people out every month. And the beginning of behind the Glass had come off the tail end of, you know, Richard had a solo show, I had his solo show.

And it was our first time ever presenting our work in that way. And there was this really cool feeling that we wanted to share with other people, to have that same cool feeling of you can, you can share your work, you can print your work out, you know, something that, you know, obviously in a, in a digital world, a lot of people are not printing as much as they used to. So printing out your work, you know, whether they're doing it analog or digital, and you know, display it on, on a wall.

And Richard, you know, had this idea, let's, let's go in and do this space behind a Glass, like the name came out of because it was in a space behind glass. And so we're like, what if we call it Behind the Glass Gallery?

And I would say, you know, in terms of like, favorite show, it's always to me, the anniversary shows, when we bring everyone back into the space and then alum from the previous year come out too. And you know, everyone's kind of in that, that space and sharing community.

There's always like some really cool moments where, you know, a parent or grandparent or someone sees their, sees art on the wall for the first time that they didn't know that this person created in this way.

You know, they, you know, are taken off from their, their workday to come out and surprise them or people, you know, coming into town for, for this moment for, for them. Those are always cool.

But I think that that anniversary show is always, always a fun experience because it, it's like a class reunion of sorts and family reunion and everyone is, is coming out to support, you know, all of the work that, you know, it's gone into that space.

It's also definitely a callback to what we originally were going to do, which was have a bunch of people in one space at one time. And we're able to do that. We're, we, you know, we did our second one this past January.

We're going to be doing our third one this year trying to plan something big for that One, but it's been going great and the support on those event. In those events have been great. Had. I think we. We had our first podcast live showing there, which was really great. Our last reception.

So really looking forward to this year and I'm trying to figure out a way where we could showcase the people from all three, you know, past are all two years in this most recent third year.

That's amazing. I know people think Rochester is such a small world and everyone knows everyone. Do you feel like you're going to run out of people to feature, or is that not the case at all?

Every time I think we think we're going to run out of someone else or a dozen people pop up or someone says, "hey, this person just moved to town or they just moved back home to Rochester and they're, you know, looking for someone to hang out with to, you know, show their pictures or go on a photo walk" or, "hey, follow them. "And then now you're in. In the world with, you know, someone else or, you know, we... We just did a photo walk a couple weeks back and it was one of our first photo walks in a while. And there were probably half a dozen people that I'd never met in person. So it was kind of cool to. To meet them and then to see their work.

And every time we have an opening, there's probably two or three people that come to the opening that, you know, is a visual artist or a photographer in some way. And we lean heavily into photography because that's, you know, kind of the community that we've had.

But we've had a bunch of visual artists as well, so painters and mixed media and things like that. So there's always someone and it feels like there's. Everyone has like, you know, this side hustle. Everyone has like this secret life.

They're like, "oh, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm a social worker during the day, but check this out. Look what I do, you know, in my. The evening hours," you're like, whoa. Or, hey, you know, this is. These are the photographs I take. And you're like, "whoa, how?!" You know, this is crazy.

And there are so many people that you see their work and you're like, man, they've had to, you know, had their work in somewhere before. And they're like, no, this is the first time I've ever shown it.

Right?

Whoa, this is crazy. Like, you know, and continuing to give people that. That experience. But I think the cool thing about it too is that it, it doesn't come with some sort of prerequisite, right? Like, you don't have to have this expansive, you know, resume, and you have to have, you know, know all of these different, you know, you shown here.

And you have to frame this way. It's. It's very loose intentionally because we don't want to, you know, hold people to that. Like, you have to do this.

You have to, you know, these are the works that we want you to show. And it has to be framed and matted this way. Like, it takes away from, I guess, the rawness of. Of the space.

And I think what helps us is that because we are building on the foundation of community over competition. Like, a lot of. I feel like we're never really going to run out of people because the people that have been in the space are usually the ones that come to us or just DM us and be like, "hey, we have this person," or, "I know this person. Have you seen this person? Have you checked out them? They just started." So we get all these different, you know, DMs.

And plus, you know, we are very active on social media as well. We're always sharing other people's work, and we're always checking out other people.

And we added Rob Bell to our curation team, which was great this past year. So, you know, he also has been a great addition to be able to help us find and. And other artists that we would want to feature. And it's been a great collaboration of just trying to build up that community foundation.

And I think one of the main things that we do, and, you know, not to say that other, you know, curators in the Rochester area don't do this, but we actually show up, you know, when these artists have events, you know, when they have their solo shows or, you know, when there's something going on, we go in there, we network, we introduce ourselves, we actually try and make sure that we're seen so that people know that they can, you know, be comfortable with us, but also can come visit our receptions and, you know, get to know us and get to know our space as well.

And then we keep showing love after, right? So after the alum has been in our space. I mean, I think of all of the alum that have had their own solo work after, or they've, you know, for sure being published in magazines or they're, you know, doing, you know, Runway work or whatever they're doing, you know, we're showing up for them and saying, hey, like, let's reshare your story, or you're having a solo Show. Even if we can't stay for the entire opening, like, we want to make a point to be there.

You know, again, that the phrase community over competition, like it's, you know, continuously building that community up so that, you know, folks feel the love endlessly.

That's why we call them alumni, you know, behind the Glass alumni, because we feel like they're still part of the network, they're still part of behind the Glass. And a lot of times we see them at the receptions supporting the new artists. And it's a great community. We love it. And in terms of like, trying to figure. I mean, we're also trying to find new ways to in a way, branch out behind the Glass for the future.

So there's other things that we have, like, in the works. But. But I mean, for example, we want to showcase some artists from a place, a place that's not Rochester, I should say.

That's all I will say that are doing great things in their community and we thought it would be a great platform for them to showcase their work. So that's another idea we have for the next year. But we're excited for what we've been doing and we're hopefully going to keep it rolling.

That's a cool idea. I think Rochester can get a little insular sometimes. I love branching out and weaving into other cities and places. And I just love the whole ethos you guys have going with this. It seems so inclusive and welcoming. It's not like, 'too cool for school. You can't be part of the group.' Like, you're actually open to everyone.

For sure. For sure.

Oh, my God. It's a long time.

I know! It's so long ago. So, like, how is your relationship with Rochester changed or any changes to the city that you think are amazing or maybe disappointing?

Oh, disappointing, Yeah.

I remember vaguely remember. But I also remember because I think it was my week was very close to, like, things shutting down or it was something.

Yeah. But I remember being very intentional with support each other. Like, I remember that being a thing like support, you know, your community. I'd rather, you know, be married in Rochester. I know that was one of them. Or I'd rather, you know, make memes or visit, you know, different things in Rochester.

So that I think that support and love has never really changed to me, and I think more so now is, like, me trying to continue to push people towards that. Like, that whole... We can all live and breathe in the community and how can we, you know, lift each other up and how can we support, you know, each other? How can we support businesses? How can we support the community? I don't think there's been any, like, major disappointments.

I think, you know, sometimes that, you know, there can be tit for tat and, you know, Rochester is too small for tit for tat. Right. Like, you.

You can't just go around burning bridges because at some point you're going to cross again and probably quicker than you expect because the community is so small. So I think it's so important to really support each other. And I think if I remember that week, it was very much be supportive of each other.

I think I just recalled two disappointments. Myself and behind the Glass were both nominated for City Magazine Best of. I was Best of Photographer. I... I did not win that one.

And behind the Glass did not win Best Podcast, unfortunately. So I would say that's probably a disappointment. I'm joking. Yeah, I was waiting for you to put that on. Thank you. I was trying to recall what my.

I've never been nominated at the same time. Yeah, we never. Oh, so it was never any hard feelings if we fist fight. Yeah. I was nominated in different. Different years.

Yeah, you were as Best Photographer, so it would have been weird if we were because I would have used the behind the Glass social media to promote me.

You would? You would!

You don't have the password.

I really don't. I don't.

So I think mine was focused on small businesses. I think, if I can recall, I know I did mention I did go to the Red Wings a lot. One of the main things that I touch on in terms of, you know, when I was during COVID I was trying to get out more, and when I was documenting a lot, it was involving maybe going to, you know, Dogtown to get, like, a garbage plate, which is the best garbage thing in Rochester. They're the only ones that do a half dog plate because I could never eat a full one.

It's just the perfect size.

It is.

Why do you need the.

I don't understand why everyone doesn't... Like that should be a

Right? Should be half.

All right. But anyway, it's still good.

But, yeah, no, so. And you know, again, Red Wings is a big thing. I love. I love going to those games a lot. I grew up, you know, going to the Silver Stadium back over when I was growing up with my dad. And I actually, you know, when my dad health was declining, I was able to go to a game with him and I shot a picture of the Kodak building there.

And that building portrait became the COVID of City Magazine. So there's a lot of things in terms of what's been happening since. It's crazy because Covid really was the tipping point to a lot of things.

I feel like, again, you know, the art scene grew, but also I think in terms of us as people, as artists, you know, Quajay and I, we grew. And again, I think I said this earlier, we actually grew with the changes of the art scene. And I think that's probably the best positive thing that I know that has happened the last five years. There's been a lot of art galleries opening up. First Friday network has been really big.

This podcast network has branched off to be amazing and big as well. Put a little sound on there, please. There we go. So, yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of growth in that.

And I think the best thing to keep that going is to just still build on community.

And I think if people just keep showing up for other people, keep supporting other people, and actually keep on putting people on the map, you know, I think behind the glass, you know, the artists that we have here, they are kind of like positive Ponzi schemers.

You know, they're actually got people under them that they're like, hey, I have these people that, you know, we should probably start looking into or we should go support this person. They have this, the solo show happening. I think we just need to keep that rolling and keep it going.

Yeah. I love all that mutual support, uplifting your community.

At the same time, I want to say that and agree and also circle back to the best of Rochester and be a little bit of a hit hater for a minute. That is just... I'm so over it. It's a popularity contest, and the same people win every year. Like, can't we just move on?

We're looking at all the best food about town

the best podcast wins, as it should, year after year!

Wow. Okay.

No hate to City and all the wonderful people there or the deserving winners! But that's...that's my hot take, I think.

There's never a way in in terms of that. And we'll say this and we'll move on, I'm sure. But I think in terms of that, there's no real way to make everybody happy.

So it's hard because, honestly, there was a thing with... Quajay and I talk about it every, every year, that there should be subcategories for Best Photographer, because everybody does different things.

You know, I do great street photography, I feel, and the other people that were nominated with me, you know, they did great landscape, they did great wedding photography. And what was the other one? I can't remember.

Oh, portrait, you know, so they all had different things in their little area that they did, and if they were just branched out to different categories, you know, it would have been even better. But that's it.

We're done.

Well, you guys do such a nice job uplifting people who might not get the spotlight on them. And I feel like it's the same old people in the spotlight, you know, that's my only beef. We'll move right on, though.

So I'm curious about how your relationship with Instagram and other social media might have changed over the years. Like, we talked about the death of Twitter briefly, and Instagram's obviously changed a lot. So how are you using it these days and how has it changed?

It's changed so much. Definitely. Twitter was really great, because I feel like, in terms of Twitter, you can just blast out as much as you can, because it really was like a spewing machine, and you had people that were in your little pocket of Twitter that, you know, vibe with you, that, you know, actually communicated with you, that actually you built up your own little network of people, and. And that's where it became, you know, Roc Twitter. You know, they had meetups, they had all these different things, and it was great.

And then, you know, as we all know, things started deteriorating, and, you know, Twitter changed. And, you know, and people still call it Twitter, I still call it Twitter, I don't call it X. But I think what's. What helped with that transition is that people started using other apps, right?

And I think Instagram, because it's so heavily focused on photography and photos, I mean, mostly it's easily accessible for people to, you know, document and share certain things that are going on and wherever they have in their space, you know, and what they're doing. So Twitter finding out things in the moment instantly became Now, Instagram stories where people were sharing stuff instantly as well.

So if there was an event or something that we had going on, we could show it in a story and people would get that information there easily and, you know, readily available. So I think, again, you know, we grew with that, and so we relied heavily on it. And I think it's, it's a great platform, but it's also meta, right?

And meta slash, Facebook is. Yeah, it's, it's its own thing in a way. It's. And it's hard because then, you know, we find other alternatives that aren't in that avenue of meta.

So we, you know, we have Bluesky. We had Mastodon at one point, and we all tried those things. I still tried Bluesky, you know, and I still have a, you know, community of people that I, you know, that love my work as well, and I share other people's work on there also. But feel like Instagram still has the hub of being able to have it to be accessible to finding new artists and being able to promote them as well.

You know, I took a break from social media, but then Quajay didn't, so I had to, like, go through him to find new artists at that time when I was still trying to curate.

And it's difficult because besides knowing people in person, you know, social media is the hub that we need to, you know, find new artists to communicate with them, to see their body of work, to, you know, see their character and what they're posting and whatnot. Because that's another thing, too.

We try and, you know, embody when we're looking for artists we want to see, you know, if they're posting something, stuff that, you know, embodies what a, you know, positive character for other people to follow. So it's hard, you know, but we. We have to lean on it, unfortunately. And hopefully, you know, we can eventually find other means to do that.

I think this is why we network. This is why we go in person to first Friday events.

This is why we are always checking up on other artists outside of Instagram so that we can build up that relationship and not rely heavily on it. But again, there's times where we need to, and we just got to do it.

I agree. I mean, I think the Twitter was an ability to just, like, blast stuff out. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like, you just get the stuff out, you know, like, it was just, you know, you could live tweet, you know, an award show, you could live tweet the debate. You can live tweet Anything happening. And then you could also throw in "here are some photos that are happening in real time." where I think Instagram is great. And then they, you know, but right now, it's very heavily on reels, right?

And so, like, you know, photography, still photography, it doesn't get as many, it doesn't get as many eyes as it once did. And so I don't want to make a reel. I want to show a still photograph because that's, that's who I am.

And so. And then, you know, changing the grid a little bit from, you know, the squares to the portrait, you know, kind of, you know, change things up a little bit, too. So then that's a thing, like, aesthetically where you're like. Like, I don't like the way that looks. And so, you know, it's. It's just an interesting, an interesting place. And there is, you know, I think the cool thing about photography. And, you know, Richard and I share photos, and we share them with other people, too.

And some photos that have never even seen the light of day in terms of, like, mass consumption, because there are still those moments where you're like, yeah, I want to show. This is, this is just for me, or this is just a moment.

Or maybe I want to present this photograph in a physical space, but I don't want everyone to already know what the photo looks like in a digital world. I want them to be able to walk in and be surprised by a photo. But, I mean, social media is a way that. I've met tons of people.

I mean, you think about social media back in the day, you tell your mom you're gonna meet somebody for coffee that you met on the Internet. That doesn't really fly. But now it's normal. I'm gonna meet this person, or you've met the person online, and then when you meet them in person.

I think the same with you and I, Emily. The first time we met in person, we had already, you know, been connected on social media and was like, oh, you're Emily. You're Quajay. Oh, okay.

So it's like this second meeting of. Of a person.

So you can't really discount, you know, what social media is meant, especially in that rip Roc Twitter, and nothing's really replaced that.

You know, some people have gone over to this network, some people have gone over to that network, but it's not the same, you know, and every so often, I'll peek in and look at what's happening there, and, like, oh, I really miss being here. But there's. It's nothing to, to see.

It is amazing how much the Internet friendships matter and are so real. Like, I think I met all of you in this room through, through the Internet first, and now here we are years and years later.

Yeah, but like I said, like, full circle. Fifteen years ago you said, I'm meeting someone up the Internet. And you know, Chris Hansen was there, right? Like, it was not cool.

But, you know, now it's like, yeah, I'm meeting someone at Ugly Duck. Like, and I met them from the Internet. And you're like, okay.

Totally normal.

Yeah, totally, totally okay.

Totally normal. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're going to talk about parenthood more after the break. But before that, I know both of you don't really share your kids online very much. I'd love to hear about how you decided to take that approach.

For me... So I did share my kids online for a while, mostly on Facebook because that was more of a family network and, you know, people that I knew but, you know, not to be. I guess the best way to say it is.

As my profile raised, it became more important for me to not show the faces of my children, especially the fry guy, because, you know, he, someone could walk up to him and say, I know your dad because they've seen his face. And it could, it could be, you know, very innocent. Or it could be weird, right?

Someone could be, you know, trolling in real time, in real life, see him and approach him for, for conversation.

And, you know, so it's, it became a safety thing as that profile kind of, especially on Instagram, where I don't know every single person who follows me. Like, there are times where, you know, you get new follows and you're not even paying attention sometimes, you know, it's kind of lost in the notification. So to me, it was very important to not share their names in some cases where even definitely not share their faces.

A lot of times like, "oh man, the twins look cool. I wish I could see their face." And they're like, yeah, well, you can see them in real life.

Or I can send you a picture on the side if, if, if, you know, we're, we're at that point. Or you can see em in real life when, you know, I'm out and about. But it, to me, it was more of a safety and privacy thing.

I do share probably more family stuff still on Facebook, but not faces. Or it's a very obscure, you know, side profile where, you know, you can kind of start making them out, but you won't be able to identify them in the lineup kind of thing.

Definitely a safety issue, for sure. I think that is definitely the number one reason why. I think also I kind of wanted to use the platform for showcasing my work and my art as a, as a forefront. And I think that's always been the model of what I do and I, what I document. And I already don't document people in my photography.

I always make sure that when I'm, you know, doing street photography, I don't have any, anybody in those scenes. And so it was very rare, unless it's a story that I'll share a person or something like that.

And I think I felt like it was important to, you know, safeguard, you know, the same reason why Quajay said is I would hate for someone to come up to one of my, you know, children and be like, "hey, you know, give this to your dad," or "tell your dad I said hi" or stuff like that. Those awkward conversations that they shouldn't need to have at such an early age is something I would. I was definitely trying to avoid. So, yeah, definitely. That's number one reason why.

I appreciate the parents who have paved the way before me. Because, Quajay, your approach definitely shaped my own thinking. And we talked about it after my son was born, and it was super helpful.

So there are times and everyone, you know, to each their own, right? But there are times where I see a public profile and I see the face of a child, and I'm like, that's, you know, and you see how many followers they have, and you're like, I can share this, this photo. Like, I can share this photo to my stories of your child. And also, like, I can DM it to someone. You can DM it to. Like, it's, it's.

The Internet is a weird. I mean, we just talked about meeting each other on Internet, but, you know, we consent to that. Where, you know, a one and a half year old.

Exactly.

A 16 year old. You know, my, you know, they don't necessarily consent in that way.

I'm not saying they have to, like, sign some form to say, "yes, dad, please take my photo." But it's a real conversation. And it, you know, my wife and I had had that conversation several times. Like, well, you know, "you shared a lot of pictures of the fry guy's face. Like, I don't want you to share as much." especially as, again, you know, the friend count changed, and it was like, "do you, like, you know that person?"

Like, oh, yeah, I know him from the Internet, but I don't know them, know them to to the point that, you know, I think of when I announced my wife, me and my wife were having twins. I mean, she was seven months pregnant when I said that. And then like a month later, it was like, the twins are here. And people are like, whoa.

That you just announced it? Well, I didn't announce it in real time! Like, you know, it's. There are also, like Richard says, there are things that, you know is still private.

Right. You know, I've seen photographs of Richard's kids. Like, I've seen his kids in real life. He's seen pictures of, you know, the twins. He's been to the house, you know, and so there are still things that you want to be private in a public world.

I feel like people forget that you're allowed to keep something private. That's an important thing to remember.

I'm not a politician, okay. Like, my life, I work in HR. Like, it's cool. Like, I don't need to share everything.

Well, let's take a quick break and we'll get into parenting even more after our break. So let's talk a little bit more about your journey as parents.

I'm curious how old your kids are, what they're into. Like, what is life looking like as dads right now?

It's a, it's a fun ride. So it's funny because I think people know about the twins and a fry guy. And occasionally people will remember I have a daughter, but most people don't remember that I have a much older son who's 27.

I didn't even know that!

Look at that. Spoiler alert.

I've known you for so long!

Yeah, so I have a 27 year old, you know, firstborn. So I was 20 when he was born, so, a very young dad. I don't know anything about being a dad, but there he was. so 27 year old.

And then I have a 22 year old daughter and then the 16, 17 year old and then the one and a half. So five kids. And in total. And when we talk about the span. Right. So 27 and 1 and a half is as quite the distance.

So huge.

Yeah, it's a huge distance. Like I have friends now who are grandparents and they have kids, you know, grandkids that are one and a half. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm, I think I'm okay as a dad. Maybe I'll do that again instead of being a grandfather. So I enjoy, I've enjoyed the journey. It's been quite the journey.

So I think of you know being a dad 27 years ago versus being a dad again for the, you know, the double duty a year ago. Just things have changed. Like, you know, I remember when he was born, I called people on the telephone and said, my son is born. I took the role.

Yeah, yeah, it was a rotary phone, right. I had to call an operator and say connect me to extension 559. And then I took a photo and then I took the film down to Walgreens.

I had to wait an hour or so and then I had these photos. And then anybody who wanted to see the photo of my son, I said, here, there he is, I'm going to show you and I'm gonna bring it to you.

And you walked uphill to school both ways?

Yeah, I did. I actually did. look up Waterbury, CT and how many hills are in Waterbury!

Oh my God.

Definitely hills. But anyway, so it was interesting because that was different. When my daughter was born, digital cameras started to really pop up. I remember my mom gave me a digital camera so a lot of her first photos were digital. But by the time the Fry guy was born, he was born. I took a photo and sent out a group text. When the twins were born, it was the same thing. It was like "they're here!" and off it went. And just interesting to navigate that, that space with them.

You know, as a dad, you know, I had a kind of an ongoing like tradition every year for you know, their birthday, they can go to Toys R Us. RIP Toys R Us. now, you know, the Fry guy has been sending me stuff that he wants from you know, different websites. "Hey, you can order this from Amazon. Hey dad, you can order this from this website."

And it's like a circle of JC Penney's catalog!

Yeah, it's like weird. I used to, yeah, the, the catalog would come and you'd circle it and you try to like, you know, you're like Ralphie and Christmas Story and you're trying to like convince your parents to get these things by setting up hence where now he's just like sending me text messages. So it's been a, it's been a fun journey to be you know, at those, you know, in my 20s, a father. in my 30s, a father and then now in my 40s, almost 50 as a, as a father as. Yeah, it's been fun. And I've learned like I've learned at each of those, those, those, those points.

I have with my ex-wife, I actually have a 13 year old daughter, 11 year old son and a 4 year old son and it's been quite a journey, I should say, especially right now getting into realm of, you know, teenagers and trying not to compare how I was when I was a teenager versus now because I feel like in the age that we're in now, you know, they're, they're just rapidly more advanced in terms of information and knowledge because of media consumption. You know, whether it's, you know, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, you know, it's at a rapid, more, you know, it's at a rapid pace.

And so, you know, they're, they're learning a lot more things that we didn't learn until we were older. Being a parent and having my, my, my kids. You know, I should say that, you know, when before my wife and I divorced, we co-parented for a little bit and you know, we build up a great friendship together doing that. You know, we were in the same household and we were able to, you know, develop, you know, great habits with our children.

And then eventually, you know, I did move out, but we still tried to build that bridge to make sure that at the end of the day between both of us, we were able to support them and do what's best for them. And so, you know, they're, you know, there's always constant communication with new developments.

You know, when I do have them and I try and you know, implement a lot of different conversations that I know I have to like in a way differentiate because of the time difference that I don't have with them. I have them every, every other weekend, but also two days a week throughout the week.

So it's a little bit less than what you know, you know, my ex-wife has. But you know, I try and make sure when I have that time that I implement as much as I can. I have routines, I have, you know, plans of things that we're going to do and whatnot. And I have constant communication with them. You know, I want to know about the times that I'm not there and I want to continue to build that relationship with them.

But at the same time I think what was important was that because everything was amicable between my, you know, my ex-wife and I and we decided to be at the space where we're at now where we're separated and then eventually divorce.

That the mindset we had was to make sure that the relationship that we have with the kids is still going to be healthy for them to grow up in a, in a loving space, even though that, you know, we both live separately in different areas.

I love that you guys navigated that with so much grace. It sounds like it can't have been easy.

It took a lot of work.

Yeah.

And it's, you know, I miss my children. You know, I wish I can have them all the time because of the, you know, after the death of my father, you know, sometimes it's really hard because there's times where I would, you know, confide in my ex wife and she would let me, you know, grab my kids, you know, earlier. But it's. It's been difficult and it's sometimes. And I am very fortunate that I'm able to have that relationship.

But I know for sure that it's not common for a lot of people. You know, a lot of people go through, you know, different hardships and it's very difficult. There's, you know, different mindsets in terms of things.

But, you know, and. And we have our disagreements sometimes with. With things, you know, my ex wife and I. But, you know, we also are able to, in a way, put that aside sometimes to be able to say, okay, but what's the best interest for the kids? And then hopefully, the pride goes away and we're able to, you know, navigate that together as adults. But it's, it's been a hard journey, but I'm very fortunate to be able to.

I feel like because of the path we had in front of us, the path that we both created as co parents, that we were able to build healthy relationships for all the kids so that there's minimal impact to us being separate from each other.

It sounds like for both of you, you've learned a lot on your journey so far. Um, I'm curious. You both have large age gaps, Quajay, of course, larger than Richard's oldest and youngest.

But when you had your youngest, each of you, did you feel like you were totally ready to go because you've done it before, or was it so daunting to start over?

Yeah, you have a huge.

Yeah, I mean, the 15 to 1 was. 15 to 0 really was. Was a big gap. And I remember, you know, going into the hospital and I was like, "tell me everything."

And they're like, "well, what do you mean? You're like, you're a parent?" And I was like, "yeah, but these are babies." Like, I know how to parent someone who can do things by themselves.

Right?

And they're like, "but you have nieces and nephews." And I'm like, "yeah, but I give them back to their parents." Like, I don't.

Like, "what do you mean? Like, how do you burp a baby? I. I forgot how to change a diaper." I know how to change it.

But, like, you know, there's a move that you have to make so that you don't get peed on. Right? Like, so there's things that you just. It's not muscle memory. You forget some of those things. And I remember being surprised that they even let me leave the hospital. They're like, "dude, what? why are you asking?"

They'll send anyone home with a baby!

Sometimes it's like, one night.

Yeah. They're like, "see ya!" Yeah, you give up. You deliver a baby early in the morning. They're like, you're out of here tomorrow.

After you put them in that car seat. And you're like, "are they good?!"

Right, Right.

We say, I think we stayed an extra day because we had the twins and some other stuff. But, you know, it was. It was interesting to be back in that. That point again.

And I think the difference between being a father for the first time at 20 and being a father at in my 40s, like, I realized how much sleep was important in my 40s. In my 20s, man, I can go on a bender, right? And be up for, you know, 36 hours, no problem.

Now it's like, I. I need at least six hours, and they don't have to be consecutive, but I need. I need it to. To tie some naps together. So that's. That's been fun, but also, like, things have changed, you know, like how you. Different car seats have changed. Different. You know, I remember, you know, you sterilize the nipple, baby nipples and pacifiers by putting them on the stove with water.

Like, I'm not saying I went out to a well and. And got the water, but there were things that. That were different. And they were like, no, no, there's a machine that does that.

I was like, oh, yeah, well, this is how you do formula. No, no, there's a thing that can help you with that. Oh, well, this is how you. No, no, there's something else for that. And I'm like, are you kidding?

Like, you know, there's an app for this, and you can, you know, track how many times they're eating and they're eating versus this. And I'm like, I used to just write it down in a scrap piece of paper and hope that I remembered the next time they woke up. So that's been fun.

But also, seeing the Fry guy become a big brother has been really exciting, too, to just see that. That growth for him and his, you know, his care for. For those. Those two guys and, you know, just that. That connection as well.

That's really cool.

It's funny you mentioned stuff being different because with my four year old, when he was two, I remember that my wife at the time, we, she came home with this like, little. Yeah, he was sick. He had a cold or something. I can't remember what it was, but he was coming in a fever. And she had something like.

That one is like a little headband. And then on her phone, it was tracking the temperature. Like every so often I was like, yo, that's so wild.

Like, we would have to like put alarms and then go like, right, shove a thermometer up there and just, you know, keep track of that in a notebook. But yeah, no, it's.

That's not the way I remember.

So many people, like get the owlet sock thing that like measures their heartbeat, pulse and all that and sends you a push notification if they're like not breathing and stuff. I'm like, no, that's too much.

Yeah, I remember, you know, there were blankets and bumpers and pillows, right? And then they were like, no, they don't need any of that stuff. You don't put any of it in there. I'm like, what happened to comfort?

Although it's fine. They're. They can, you know, self regulate. And I'm like, they don't, they can't have a pillow. Like, what's going on here?

Don't put any, you know, don't put a coat on them in the car seat. You put a blanket over them.

I'm like, what?

We always put a coat. Like, why do I have this snowsuit then? And they're like, no, no, you can't use that. And here's to hold them and rock.

Not at the whole rocker.

Yeah, it's very interesting. But then having twins, I didn't realize one, how many people are a twin. Richard's a twin. I also didn't realize how many.

My younger brothers are twins.

And his youngest brother.

Whoa.

I didn't realize how many things were available for twins. They were like, you know, these different strollers, different, you know, buggies, different, you know, all this stuff.

Like Richard and his dad, you know, got the boys a stroller that we love and it does all of these functions. And anybody, anytime someone asks me, that's a really cool stroller. I'm like, check out what it does. And I, like, start spinning things around. And you could do this and you could. And I'm like, why am I so excited about a stroller for twins?

But it's, it's these cool things that Christopher had, you know, one stroller that had a car seat in it, and then he had it, like those umbrella strollers or whatever that, you know. And I'm like, look how fast this comes down. I click this one button. Boom. Look at that. Look, it fits in my trunk. And, and you start getting excited about things that as a newer parent, that you're like, "why am I excited about this?"

What's funny is also to add a little side note. The twin connection we have, I have with Quajay as well. Him having twins, me, myself having a twin sister. My little brothers are twins, too.

During the time where we became friends, when I was with my then wife, we would venture to Connecticut a lot. And she's from Danbury, Connecticut, and he's from Waterbury, and they're literally. Literally, like 40 minutes away.

30, 40 minutes. Yeah.

And so there will be time. I think there was a time one time I was like, "hey, I'm going to Connecticut for the weekend We're going Danbury."

"Oh, wow. I'm from Waterbury."

And so there was never a time we were there together at the same time in Connecticut. But it's just funny that, you know, those towns are so close to each other. And I would go there once a month because, you know, my wife's family lived up there, and so we would go up there every month and one weekend and just spend the weekend. But, yeah, so twins.

What's crazy is, is that seeing Quajay bring the twins to the gallery and all that, I try and, like, remember and tell myself that, like, I don't. I can't recall being how I was. I mean, I don't think anyone can recall when they were younger. Right.

But I can't recall ever thinking that, you know, when I have my children now, that, like, having two of them at the same time, how difficult it would be.

Anytime anything challenging is happening with my one year old, I'm like, how does Quajay do it?!

Yeah.

How do people have twins?!

Interestingly enough, I think having twins, and, I mean, I'm only a year and a half into this thing, but I think having twins is a little bit easier than when you have kids that are a couple years apart. So, like, my brother has, you know, three, and they're all, you know, 18 months or so apart. I watched them one time, and I was like, "I'm all set."

I can't watch the three of them because they were at different levels, different things going on where the twins, you know, everyone that gave me advice was Keep them on the same schedule, you know, do these things. And people often ask, oh, wow, it's cute you guys dress the twins alike.

Yeah, it's out of necessity, mostly, for sure, because you get up, you pick one outfit, off you go, you make them meals. They're starting to have little different personalities in terms of what they like, what they don't like, but it's. It's fun.

But then it's also fun to bring them to a space, like, to bring them to the gallery or photo walk or whatever. And Richard's a twin, so there is, like. I think they pick up on that vibe, you know, I've taken them out to see some murals in action.

And one of the artists, Fran, she's a twin, and she talks about being a twin. And so they see her, and I'm like, Fran, she's a twin. Like, you're okay with her? Like, there's a twin connection. Yeah, it's a. It's a fun thing.

And then him talking about, you know, remembering, oh, me and my sister did this. Like, do you. Do they do that? You know, are they. What's their connection like? And him understanding that, too.

My mother used to say that when we were both in timeout, that I would push her off a timeout and make noise and then run to my corner. She would come and see her out, and then she would get in trouble.

Yeah, they do smart.

Which is smart.

And Quajay, are yours identical or fraternal?

They're fraternal.

Okay.

Yeah. I was. I was afraid that the whole identical thing, I was like, oh, man, I can't tell kids apart. And then when they were born, I was like, man, they look really similar. I thought they said fraternal. And so they had these hats in the hospital. I said A and B, and they. They wore those hats for a couple days.

And for a while, I was like, okay, he goes on a left, he goes on a right. And still that's. That's how I set them up. Even though they look different, they have different personalities, and it was just a way to get into that rhythm. But, yeah, I was terrified that I would just mix them up.

It seems like you guys have a great friendship, of course, you two. And it seems hard for men to find dad friends, in my observations, at least. like, I have mom friends that help me get through motherhood. Can you, like, talk a little bit about any dad friendships you have and, like, how you find them, what it's like to be friends with other dads?

Yeah, I think the cool thing about being a friend with, you know, Richard. But then also, Rob Bell's a dad. There's so many dads that are in our network, and then there's also not dads, which are cool, too, like, to be able to balance that out. But when Richard says, you know, he's got the kids this weekend, I know what that means.

Like, I am not going to press them to, like, oh, man, come on, you got to come out. Come and do this thing. If I'm going to say, come out. Like, hey, do you want to go. Go, like, meet at a park?

Like, do you want to go do something that involves the kids? As opposed to, like, I know, like, so if someone says, hey, is Richard available? You know, if Richard's available next weekend? Like, I know his, his schedule, right? So I'm like, oh, no, it's this day. Richard's not. Or, you know, being able to balance and him, you know, understanding that, too.

Rob understanding that, too. But, you know, you're trying to balance the children. You're trying to balance your extracurricular. You also got to work. You got to do other things.

So being able to find that. That time. I think the beauty of us finding the time to come and talk with you today is a miracle in itself. But you also put it on our.

Like, you put it out there early enough that we were able to, okay, this is a date that works. But it's cool when you have, you know, friends that. That understand that. And then you can also say stuff, right?

Like, we've confided in each other on, "hey, you know, what do you think about this thing? Or what's going on with that?" As, as parents or, man, it's crazy that our kids got a, you know, do this thing, or when his daughter was coming to, you know, school district that I'm in, you know, he'd asked about the school. Like, "hey, what do you know about the school? Like, is that what was, you know, Fry guy's experience there?"

And it's like, "oh, he had a great experience. And, you know, blah, blah, blah." So, you know, I think that's. That's fun to, to do.

And, you know, he went, like I said when we had the twins, and he's like, I want to get you guys something. And, you know, we're expecting, like, you know, maybe a bib and some socks. And he's like, no, I want to get you guys the stroller.

Like, tell me what stroller you want, because I want to be able to help. And that was something that we Were, you know, super thankful for because, you know, he didn't have to, to do that.

But you know, that dad connection or hey, bring the, bring the kids. Like, you know, you're going to do something bring the kids, or I'm going to bring the kids or I got to cut out early because, you know, it's my night and I'm going to go pick up the kids or I'm going to go do this thing.

So, yeah, I think what's great is that because, you know, Quajay, myself and you know, Rob Bell, as a curation team, we're able to like, fill in the gaps in a way because we know our schedules, because we know the, the load of things we need to do or have to do outside of our gallery responsibilities. And at the forefront of that is our families. You know, we love supporting artists, we love being able to show, show up for other artists.

But at the end of the day, we, you know, know that family comes first and we know that that's the main energy we tap into to be able to get by every day.

So as long as we are able to, you know, step in when we can, or, you know, if there's a time where I need to dip out the gallery and, you know, Quajay knows that, you know, maybe my mom's sick and I have to go on a flight the next day or, you know, I. I have the children and I can't be at the G. We all know, and we built that friendship of people that have family and that have these responsibilities that we know that if we can, you know, lend a hand, lend a, lend a voice, you know, some type of support in any way that, you know, it'll benefit each other and we'll have this ever going circle of support and community, friendship or even.

When a kid spaz out, right? Like, you know, there's no judgment, right?

So, you know, we were setting up for a gallery and I look over and one of the twins is like jumping out of his car seat like full bore. He's about to go out and Rob is like, "yo! yo! your son!" And then, you know, Richard turns and he's about to like, react.

And so he sees Richard about to react to catch him and then loses it. He's like, "I don't want Richard," like, kind of like, you know, he can't talk, but he's like, "don't get near me!"

But he was also like taking a full, full on jump. So that understanding, like, or, "hey, man, and I gotta take the kids home, like I'm gonna cut out of here early."

You know, I bought them to the opening, but I'm gonna leave, you know, 40 minutes early or whatever. That's, you know, just you. You have that connection and you understand, you know, why that's important.

And I think for both of us and Rob, as well, as part of the beyond the Glass team, you know, what we do is to model to our children how important it is to support those that are around you and to also chase your dreams, right? Chase things that you're passionate about. And so anytime, you know, I. I'm out doing something, I know that that's taken away from the kids.

So I want to make sure the thing that I'm doing is important, but can also model to them why, you know, dad did that thing, you know, when he goes.

When they go back and do a Google search on dad and they see that, you know, he was doing all these things, you know, what's that story that they get to, to see?

Then you do an excellent job of that because, you know, every time he brings Chris to the gallery, those receptions, he comes around and just like a person to network, he'll go around and say hi to everybody.

He does network really well.

He networks great.

He's great at it. Sometimes a little too good.

I mean, I think some of those difficult conversations, you know, there are. My children are some of them, obviously, at certain ages where, you know, they see what's happening in the world. And so having those conversations, but then even having those conversations with the twins, like, I have those. I say things to them like, you know, I want you to be a good person. I want you to take care of each other.

I want you to, you know, to change the world in whatever way you decide you're going to change it. All of these things, you know, I think I remember, you know, the first, however many years of Fry Guy's life. You know, Obama was president.

Like, he was president when he was born. He was president you know, through many birthdays, and all of a sudden, he wasn't president, and things were changing. And so we had this.

This conversation because he was hearing things, you know, whether it was on a school bus or out, you know, when we were out in public or something. And so being able to have, you know, hard conversations about different people's views.

And, you know, sometimes, yes, people are entitled to their views, but sometimes you can not. Sometimes you can disagree and sometimes it's just wrong. It's just not right. And how do you tell someone that?

And you know, in a way that, you know, they can hear it and if they don't hear it, like, you've done your, your part. So I think, you know, a lot of those things are important or going to school and, you know, they're telling me that they're having a lockdown drill.

What's this mean? Like, so we're going to talk through, you know, why it's important or what I need you to do in those situations.

Because that's different than when I was in school. We didn't have. That wasn't going on.

You know, people are pulling a fire alarm and we'd get outside and we all laugh and joke, you know, not, you know, here we're having an active shooter drill or, you know, just the chaos of being a parent and navigating the world and trying to be responsible and pay your bills and then navigate this. And then you, you pop on the Internet and something wild is happening. You turn on the news and, you know, it's, it's a lot.

And so being able to have those conversations with your kids and being able to be truth for an answer, I think is, is super important too. And not fry guy's old enough to know. Like, I'm not going to sugarcoat some of the things, and I think that's, that's important too.

But also, again, for those one and a half year olds as they grow, I want them to know that you need to do what you need to do, whether you understand you're looking at me and then you throw a block in my head because maybe you didn't understand, but those are the little seeds that I want to plant now that I think are important.

I think one of the main things, you know, just, you know, all of what Quajay said, for sure, I agree with, I think to add on to that, because I always. And you did touch on this a little bit. It's just always having conversations and asking questions.

You know, that's what I always try and do because I have the disadvantage of not having them full time, that there's a lot of times where I'm asking them questions about what's going on.

And sometimes it's hard to navigate because they are probably feeling like they're bombarded with a lot, you know, but just making sure I give them that space, you know, making sure that I keep reminding them to advocate for what's right. If they feel like something is. Is not fair to them, even if it's from, you know, us as parents, I want to hear it.

I would want, you know, them to say the same to their mom. And I just feel that it's important for them to have a voice, you know, and I make sure that, you know, as they start getting older, as they start getting, you know, more inquisitive with what's going on in social media, with the political climate, you know, if they're gonna laugh at a Trump meme, I want them to understand, you know, why Trump is the way he is during this climate. Right.

And I want them to ask me questions on how I feel about it, and I want to know how they feel about it, and just trying to make sure that, you know, they. They feel like it's a safe space to talk about it. You know, I want them to find out stuff from me and not from their best friends.

And I want them to have insight whenever stuff comes up outside of, you know, our conversations with those people so that they can, again, advocate for themselves and, you know, they are able to be ready when those instances happen.

I think, you know, if a child is growing up in the iPad age and whatnot, and, you know, social media, you know, as they, you know, get older and, you know, and they start evolving into these, you know, young adults, it's important that, you know, we try and, in a way, find ways to fill in those gaps. And it's hard, you know, we're gonna. We're gonna fail as parents.

We're gonna.

We're gonna, you know, not hit that mark sometimes. But it's important to keep trying and to keep aiming for that and to be consistent. And I think that's what I try and model.

I try and keep that consistency with them. They know a routine. They know I'm going to ask them about something.

They know that if something happens when I'm not with them and their mother tells me that they know that I'm going to ask them about it and that I'm going to probably have a difficult conversation with them about it. But I think it's important for them to, you know, know that those difficult conversations are not, you know, to, to, in a way, derail their mental stability, but to help them grow as young adult into young adults and to help grow the relationship that I have with them.

I love that you both really prioritize having those conversations even if they're hard and making space to hear their opinions and help them grow. That's really great.

I mean, growing up, the hardest conversation my stepdad had with me was like the birds and bees and. But now everything is available, right? So, like, there's no. I had to go and get a book out of the library to find something out. I couldn't just get on the Internet and have it in two seconds.

And I think, you know, Richard said, in that digital age, as a parent, you're trying to get ahead of what they're able to consume themselves within seconds. And how can you get to them and give them the information that, you know, someone else isn't going to give them immediately?

That makes sense. to close, I'd love to hear, on a lighter note, some joyful parts of being a dad.

the laughter. Yeah, I love just different things, different days, you know, the, the times that we can joke and that's always so fun, you know, having, you know, the twins, but also, you know, my, my older children as well. Like, we've always had this, let's go out and do something, you know, let's go to mini golf or let's go to, you know, these.

I was, I was at a birthday party a couple weeks ago at a bounce house. Or not a bounce house, but a bounce park, trampoline park, whatever. My legs still hurt from it, but I was like, "I gotta get on a trampoline and I gotta bounce, you know, at least a couple times, like to, you know, be involved." But just that laughter and also sharing things with the kids, you know, not being, you know, people often say to me, "oh, man, it's crazy, you bought all three kids out?!" And I'm like, "well, I'm their dad, so."

Right.

I, I mean, I'm not babysitting. Right. These are my children, but I also want them to see the world and to see the world that I enjoy as well.

You know, I'm going to take them to strong, but also want to go to mag. Right. Like, so being able to balance out those, those things. But yeah, it's just the, the joy of every day is something new and, and fun.

Shout out to the twins. Being on the MAG today.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No faces, no faces, no faces.

You know what they were, though.

I think for me all also just making sure. I feel like, you know, just like I've been saying, it's like, like a dead horse today, but just trying to evolve with, you know, them as they grow. And I think because, you know, they see what I do in the community, and they see what I do in terms of photography I've been trying to implement, bringing them more into, you know, where I document and where, you know, I. I, you know, take pictures. A lot of times I'll drive around when I'm on my own, and I'll just get lost in Rochester and I'll start taking pictures.

And they now enjoy like, "hey, can we just go in the car and just drive around?"

Yeah.

And that's probably where we have the. The most of our conversations, where I'm able to talk to them. And, you know, I also developed extra day where I do take them individually so that they have their own space for just myself, and it's not just the other siblings there as well, but during those times as well. Also, I'm also taking them out, finding different places the, you know, to photograph and to explore.

And I think that's important for them because then they can, you know, when they're not with me, say, "hey, I remember that, you know, my dad took me there," or I went and visited that. Or they can, you know, my daughter now, I saw her taking pictures with her cell phone, which was really great.

And I was just like, "oh, try not to cry." She's like, "can I take a picture of that?" And I'm looking in the back, and I see her taking, like, a picture of the sunset.

And I'm like, oh, wow, that's how it starts.

Yeah. The fry guy's become a, he's a really good spotter. But Richard's daughter, so a couple years ago, she did program at the yards, and I remember they'd asked me to come in. We did a. Like, a quick walk around to the murals, and I'm talking about why it's cool to take pictures. And she says, "oh, yeah, my dad takes pictures."

I'm like, "oh, yeah? Who's your, your dad takes pictures?"

"Yeah, he. I don't know why. He just takes these pictures of stuff." And I'm like, "oh, wow. What's he, who's your dad?"

"Richard Colon?" I was like, "oh, I know your dad. Your dad's so cool." And then she was like, "he's all right." It was great. roasted! And then it was like, I was like, "hey, I met your daughter today." He said, "what'd she say about me?" I was like, "oh, check out this picture." He's like, "oh, man, she's wearing that silly hoodie?!"

Yeah, but it was so funny. It was just like. I instantly became uncool because I knew her dad.

Ouch.

Like, so involved, so cool about like, oh, man, look at. What's this mural? What's that mural? And then I was like, oh, I know your dad. Your dad's so cool. And she's like, "oh."

And I was like, I shouldn't have said I knew your dad.

Same cool points.

That's too funny.

No longer there.

I love that laughter is, like, such a key piece of it for both of you. Like the toddler giggles make my life. And I, I'm gonna be so gobsmacked when he starts roasting me someday. Can't even picture it.

Thank you guys for coming on the show. It was really fun to chat about dad life and beyond.

This was fun.

I like what you did there.

And beyond, yo! dad life and beyond!

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador podcast network.