I'd love to hear your thoughts, feedback and insights on what could improve The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast in this short poll - it takes 2 minutes, and as a thank you, we'll send you a little gift!

Does thinking about money make something in your body tighten? Your chest pound and throat close?

Maybe you avoid opening your banking app for weeks. Maybe you know something needs to change but every system you've tried has lasted about three days. Maybe you've spent money you didn't mean to spend, not because you're irresponsible, but because in that moment it was the only thing that made you feel okay.

You are not bad with money.

You just haven't had a system built for your brain.

This week on The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast I'm joined by Esther Bangura, neurodivergent financial educator, ADHD and money coach, and host of the Neurodivergent Money Management podcast. After years of debt, stress spending, and burnout, Esther paid off £18,000 and bought her own home. Instead of following conventional financial advice, she used systems that actually worked with her ADHD brain; and now she helps other high-earning neurodivergent women do the same.

For so many of us, spending isn't really about the thing we're buying, it's about control, relief, and finding calm for a nervous system caught in overwhelm.

In this episode, we explore:

• Esther's realisation of her spending habits and gaining a sense of control
• Why her own ADHD diagnosis transformed the way she supports her clients
• Why the same money systems doesn't work for everyone, and how to find what actually works for you
• How to understand your spending patterns and energy levels and use that data to build a strategy that sticks
• How burnout and financial stress affected Esther's fertility and her experience of miscarriage
• What needs to change in financial education for neurodivergent people
• Practical tips for ADHD business owners managing their finances

This episode is for every woman who has ever felt shame around money or avoided the conversation because it felt too exposing. Esther brings warmth, honesty and genuine practical wisdom to a topic that our community doesn't talk about anywhere near enough.

Financial peace is possible for our brains and this episode shows you what that can look like.

Support and information on topics raised in today's episode:

The Miscarriage Association Website

The Miscarriage Association helpline and support services

StepChange Debt Charity

Timestamps:

• 00:01 - Introduction to ADHD Women's Wellbeing
• 01:12 - Navigating Financial Challenges as a Neurodivergent Individual
• 10:59 - Understanding ADHD and Financial Management
• 21:41 - Exploring Financial Challenges of Neurodivergent Women
• 35:13 - Navigating Transitions: Understanding Yourself and Your Finances
• 40:06 - Navigating Burnout and Self-Employment
• 44:42 - Navigating Neurodivergent Business Strategies

This week’s episode is sponsored by Understood.org, the leading nonprofit dedicated to empowering the millions of people with learning and thinking differences, like ADHD and dyslexia. Their podcast, AHA Aha! Shared candid stories about ADHD realisations, including the unexpected, emotional and even funny ways ADHD symptoms can surface!

The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Live Event Recording is here!

My first-ever ADHD Women's Wellbeing Live event sold out, and now the full experience is available to you wherever you are, whenever it feels right.

Alongside three neuro-affirming experts, we spent four hours exploring the questions that matter most to late-diagnosed women. Get lifetime access here!

Inside the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Live Recording, you'll find:

• Kate Moryoussef on post-diagnosis growth and her gentle framework for what comes next
• Dr Hannah Cullen on the neuroscience of ADHD and why your brain works the way it does
• Hannah Miller on reconnecting with purpose through a neurodivergent lens
• Adele Wimsett myth-busting on hormones, HRT, progesterone and perimenopause

Understand yourself more deeply, feel less alone, and finally access the expert knowledge you deserve. Because every woman with ADHD deserves access to the knowledge, expertise and understanding that for too long simply hasn't been available to us.

To get lifetime access for £44, click here.

Links and Resources:

• Find my popular ADHD workshops and resources on my website [here].
• Follow the podcast on Instagram: @adhd_womenswellbeing_pod

Kate Moryoussef is a women's ADHD lifestyle and wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity and clarity.

Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Hi everyone.

Welcome back to another episode of the ADHD Women's Work well Being podcast.

And today I.

Well as always, I am Kate Moore Youssef.

I feel like I don't need to say that anymore, but I like to just in case you are a new listener and you've never heard this podcast before.

I've been hosting the podcast for four years and I never am not passionate and interested in the conversations that we have.

And today really is no different because we're going to be talking about finances and money and we have an expert here with us today.

Her name is Esther Bangora and she is a neurodivergent financial educator, educator, ADHD and money coach and also the host of the neurodivergent Money Management podcast.

I love that when it just says what it does on the tin.

And after years of debt, stress, spending and burnout, esther paid off £18,000 and bought her home by building systems that worked with her ADHD brain.

She now helps other high earning neurodivergent professionals reduce financial overwhelm, interrupt emotional spending and build calm, sustainable money routines.

Sounds exactly like what so many of us need right now.

So Esther, welcome to the podcast.

Hi Kate, thank you so much for having me.

I'm really happy to be here today with you.

Well, it's a delight to have you because this conversation is, is always there, you know, like it doesn't matter how much we try with, I would say with spending, with finances, with executive functioning.

To have someone who understands this so uniquely through our neuro divergent lens is so powerful because it helps reduce that shame, take away all the criticism and just allow us to just step into different systems and, and I guess ways of working that are finally according to our brain and our nervous system.

So maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background.

What led you here?

Obviously you've gone through this kind of journey yourself.

Give us a little snapshot.

Where do I start?

It's like such a story, but I'll keep it short and simple.

So, like, growing up, I never really had really good examples of financial management.

My mom is a massive avoider.

So what I learned from her was how to spend money.

I never really had examples of how to manage money or how decisions were made around money.

So when I started earning money, I just did exactly that, which was to spend.

So I got into a lot of debt.

I stress spend, spent.

And I didn't really have any system to my finances.

Even though, you know, I'd been working since the age of 16.

I knew how to earn money.

I knew how to make an income.

In my career, between my 20s and 30s, I would get promoted.

Every three years, I would get promotion.

So I knew that I didn't have an income issue.

I knew that I had a financial management issue.

And it wasn't until I decided to go part time.

And I didn't plan it, didn't think it through.

I just thought, right, I'm going part time to study.

And I didn't realize how much I was spending.

I didn't realize how much my bills were or how much debt I had.

And my salary got cut in 50%.

And that was my wake up call because I realized, oh my gosh, Esther, like, this is how much you spend.

This is how much your bills actually are.

This is how much debt you've been just kind of like, you know, paying off one month and then building it back up again, clearing it again another month.

And so that became my rude awakening.

And what that did is it made me realize that it didn't matter how much I earned.

What mattered was how I managed my finances.

So that was the start of my curiosity into financial management.

But even then, I didn't have my diagnosis.

At the time, I knew I had dyslexia and I knew I had dyspraxia.

So that made a little bit of sense.

And I was reading financial books, I joined programs, I worked with mentors and watch YouTube videos.

But it was such a struggle.

And although I got the systems and the methods that they were teaching, I just found it hard.

I found it hard to stick to a budget.

I found it hard to remember bills.

I found it hard to even make a phone call to my bank about a misdirect debit or whatever the case may be.

And I used to give myself a really hard time with those things.

And interestingly, I didn't have my ADHD diagnosis at the time.

But what I did was I tapped into my new divergent strength, which is just problem solving and really just not giving up, because I really was passionate about improving my relationship with money.

So that thing in me of don't give up at this.

Yes, it's hard.

Yes, it's not working.

Yes, you don't know what the solution is, but keep at it.

And that drive really made me to create my own systems.

So I struggled with finding a budget template that would work.

You know, I went through tons of budgeting templates, I tested all sorts of apps and I just struggled with it.

I just couldn't find the one that landed.

Now, I know that actually there is no perfect budget template out there.

And actually every budget template that is on Etsy or online or even financial coaches create, it's based on a particular objective that they have.

And all of our brains are different.

So some people might want to have, you know, simple categories and that will work for them.

Others, they want every detail.

They want to be able to track in their budget.

They want a dashboard.

So I thought, I have to have a budget because I need to plan how I'm going to spend my money.

I can't find one out there.

I'm just going to create my own.

And I created my own budget template.

Initially, it was by hand.

I literally just bought a four book in Wilco when they were around then, and I got myself a pencil because I knew I would need to rub out, you know, mistakes and whatnot.

And I got a calculator and I budgeted for the first six months just on pen and paper.

Once I decided that, okay, this is something that can work long term, I then put that into a spreadsheet.

So even back then, although it was a challenge trying to adopt neurotypical ways of financial management, I worked hard to make it my own.

I worked hard to make it work for me, to simplify some of the processes.

So that led me to pay off £18,000 worth of debt.

I was a major stress spender.

I still am a stress spender, by the way, but I have it contained now and I have a system around it and a little bit of more control.

But I realized that if I was stressed at work, if I were stressed with family members, if I was just having a bad day, not feeling good about myself.

Lauren, behold.

I'm heading down to Brent Cross.

I live in London, so Brent Cross, we have a shopping mall there.

And I will head out to Brent Cross and I would easily spend 300 pound.

You know on what you ask on diffusers from John Lewis, because diffusers just made me feel calm.

Diffusers had a way of regulating me and.

But I realized that there was a pattern.

And so over time, what I did was I started to pay attention to what caused me to spend on the days where I would feel stressed, on the days where I'd feel burnt out.

And I said, okay, fair enough.

When you feel stressed, you want to spend, don't spend £300 in John Lewis, just spend 100.

So I gave myself a limit, which is what I call a container.

I gave myself 100 pound limit.

And then I thought, okay, just spend 50, you know, you don't need 100, just spend 50.

So I would find cheaper diffusers to spend money on.

But eventually what I realized was in that moment, it didn't really matter what I bought, what I purchased.

I just needed a relief to help calm my nervous system, to feel safe.

Because what I realized is when I was stressed, I felt like I was out of control with whatever it was that was going on.

But by me spending money, I felt a sense of control.

I felt like I was getting my power back.

So now when I have those moments, really all that does it for me is buying a new stationary pen or, you know, heading over to the chicken and chip shop or the fish and chip shop and buying fish and chips.

So I've been able to kind of contain it.

And usually that doesn't happen all the time because I realize what I need in that moment.

So understanding that, okay, you know, you have the urge to go and spend, but what is it that you really need, Esther?

Are you just tired?

You just need a nap?

Do you need to go for a walk?

Do you need to switch off?

So fast forward, I decide to go back to uni and I lost my initial dyslexia dyspraxia report from my assessment.

And so my uni sent me for additional testing and.

But they kind of sent me for the full works and I didn't even realize, but I should have picked it up because when they sent me the pre assessment paperwork, it was so stressful.

It took me over an hour and a half to complete the paperwork.

And I remember emailing back the gentleman saying, you didn't pre warn me about how long this form was going to take.

It was really stressful because it brought all the memories back of my childhood, of how I, I learn, how I process information, how I carry out tasks.

And then I realized, gosh, it's such a struggle for me and like, why do I do things the way I do them?

To me, I did things the hard way.

To me, I'm sure there's an easier way to do it, but it was the only way I could do it in order to get the thing done.

And so I went for my assessment and then I was diagnosed with ADHD and it just made absolute sense.

Like it just was such a relief for me because I had words, I had language, somebody understood me from across the table, like it all made sense and the dots connected.

And so I kind of went back and I looked at, okay, just go back and just look at how you've done things.

And I realized actually I've always done things in a new, divergent way.

I've always done it with my ADHD brain.

And so after that I decided to really lean into that.

I realized that burnt out and stress led to a lot of my bad financial decisions, a lot of my debt and stress spending.

And so I decided that actually this is an area that I want a niche in because I did financial coaching before as well.

But I was, I was coaching more in a neurotypical way.

But even with my coaching I realized that it was very neurodivergent, friendly, designed.

So even after becoming a certified ADHD coach and kind of bringing my finance experience and neurodivergent lived experience together, yeah, I realized I didn't have to change much.

You'd been doing it intuitively yourself, haven't you?

It's really interesting because this common thread I'm listening to, to your story is this like nuggets of awareness and you're obviously using your mum as like a bit of a mirror back and you can see similar traits and thinking, actually I don't want to be like that, I want to break the cycle.

And you're getting these like penny dropping moments.

And so many of us can either make a decision to lean into that and yes, it's uncomfortable, and then seek help and support or change things or many of us just see it and then carry on with those patterns.

And you clearly was like, no, I'm not going to do it like that.

I'm going to try this, I'm going to do that.

There was a lot of intuition there and it's fascinating to hear that you could spot those cycles, the stress bending.

You then figured out there was triggers.

You figured out that there was probably sort of dopamine seeking or comfort or sensory or just like you say that your nervous system just wanting to feel kind of like safe and calm and Back in control because we can swap little dopamine hits when we understand what's going on.

It's like, okay, I'm looking for a dopamine hit.

Does it have to be £200?

Or like you say, can we go for a walk, can I go for a coffee?

And that might be, you know, the thing, or do I need to go and have a bath?

Or something like that.

And the way it's sort of fed back into your, like debt management, money management, and really understanding that you knew how to make money, it was the management side and that, you know, so many of us who are neurodivergent either, you know, work for ourselves self employed entrepreneurs.

And the ideas are not limited.

We have the ideas in abundance.

It's very often, okay, well, how do I manage my money and the finances and it's the spreadsheets.

And I very much relate to what you were saying that sometimes I get so bamboozled by all the tech and the software.

But if I have a piece of paper and I can do it in the way that my brain wants to do it and use a calculator and very basic and simple, I'm like, yeah, get this.

Why is everyone making it so complicated?

Like, why, Like, I don't get it.

Like, I understand numbers, I understand how to add things up on a calculator, but why is it if you give me an Excel spreadsheet or like a scary software, that's it, I, I tell myself I can't do this.

Do you find this like in your kind of community and the people that you support, how, how can we simplify all of this so none of this feels like it's way beyond us.

Yeah.

So I love that you said that because for the person who is avoiding avoiding, I always say the time will come, you know, everybody will have an opportunity to kind of be like, right, this is the time that I change how I am with money.

And it's usually at that time that people come to me and it can take some people a while.

I have a client that I'm working with now where we first engaged two years ago, but she wasn't ready then, but when she was ready, she knew exactly where to go and the support that she needed.

And, and so in terms of like the spreadsheets, you know, every ADHD brain is different.

So for some people, keep it simple.

Stupid really works especially to get started.

You know, for the ADHD person who actually likes spreadsheets and they're good with spreadsheets.

Yeah, go for it.

I have a client that I work with where she loves spreadsheet.

In our first call, she like showed me all these spreadsheets that she created and it was like, okay, that's great, you're a spreadsheet person.

So how can we simplify this?

How can we make it work for you?

So that on the days where you have low capacity, when you've not had a good night's sleep because your young ones kept you awake, you've had a busy day at work.

And also on the days that you just don't care, because some days we care, some days we don't care.

And so it's really important to know what is it that you like, what is it that you're interested in?

What are the tools, you know, that engage your brain that give you that dopamine that you can lean and, and work with?

I find that like things like having a budget.

Yes, we have to have a budget.

It doesn't have to be a spreadsheet, it doesn't have to be an app.

But for some people that can work just having an A4 piece of paper, you know, a post it note could be your budget.

If you have a simplified finance where you know your expenses are not that many, like if you're a student living at home, you're not really paying council tax and electric bills.

So your budgeting template can be simple.

Post it.

You know, giant post it notes might work for you where you have one for each category and something visual that when you wake up in the morning, you know, you can see it.

So different things work for different people.

When it comes to savings, for some people, once they've set up the automation, that's kind of all they need where they know that, okay, I'm building my emergency fund, or I'm building for my house to deposit, I'm going on holiday end of the year, I'm building for that.

And actually I need to have this amount going into them each month by this time to achieve that.

And so you don't necessarily need a spreadsheet for that.

If you automate it and you organize it in a way that you know, right, my holiday savings is sitting in that account, my emergency fund is sitting in this account and my house deposit is sitting in that account.

And every month when I get paid on the day or the day after, it's automated, like, yeah.

So I think there's ways that we can really simplify what we do and how we manage our finances.

So, you know those light bulb moments we often talk about so much on this podcast and in this community where you suddenly just realize it's like, oh, my goodness.

Whether it's a child that's been diagnosed and you see that in yourself, oh, my goodness, I'm NeuroDivergent, or that's ADHD, or that is my autism showing up.

There's a podcast entirely dedicated to those moments, and I think you're gonna really love it.

It's called ADHD AHA.

It's hosted by Laura Key from Understood.org and I've been listening to a few of the recent episodes of adhd.

Aha.

And what really stands out to me is how candid and relatable it is.

So the host, Laura, speaks to people from all, all different walks of life about the exact moment they realized their brain worked differently and how that shifted everything.

And what I love about the podcast is how it reflects the emotional complexity of ADHD in women, especially for those of us diagnosed later on in life, where there's often grief and relief and recognition and so many pieces falling into place at once.

It's a real sort of moment that we'll never forget, really.

It's deeply validating, often quite moving.

It reminds you that your experiences make sense and even if no one has explained them before.

So to listen, search for ADHD Aha.

In your podcast app.

That's ADHD Aha.

Spelled A H A. I really hope you find it as interesting as I did.

And now back to today's episode.

Just to know that you have, like an app that you say can do all that hard work for you.

It's all automated.

That in itself, like your nervous system can calm and you feel like safe around money.

Because, yes, money is everywhere and it's a massive conversation, but it's also an energy.

And it's very much like how we see money, how we speak about money, how we want money to work for us.

And that is a lot of sort of reconditioning and deconditioning.

Is that something that you work with people as well?

Like, really helping with their mindset and their belief systems around money?

Yeah, 100%, because financial well being impacts our housing stability, it impacts our employment, our health, and our independence.

So it's something that we can't get away with.

I love that you mentioned about, like, the apps.

They have gotten better.

So we're seeing a huge improvement.

Especially with the challenger banks like Monzo and Stalin, they're getting better.

I find that the traditional banks are still lagging.

You know, they still have a way to go when it comes to mindset, it does play a big role.

Self awareness is really important when it comes to managing our finances.

I always say regulate or understand the patterns before you strategize and implement.

So usually when I work with people, they kind of want to, like, get into the practical stuff and I have to, like, slow it down for them and say, look, if we're able to first understand the patterns, understand what's going on underneath the spending, that's data that you can use to help now build the strategy.

Otherwise, we're building a strategy, but what are we basing it basing it on?

So things like understanding their spending patterns, understanding their energy levels, what drains you, what boosts your energy, what time of the day are you up, are you down?

Because all of those link to when we spend money, when we're most likely to spend money.

Is it after work, is it on a Friday, is it after school, when you're picking the kids up?

These patterns are what's going to help us to build a simple system.

So I did a money survey.

This was last year.

So last year I was doing some market research and it was actually after my ADHD diagnosis when everything just kind of made sense.

And I said to myself, am I the only one, like, am I the only neo divergent that has had challenges with money?

And are my challenges as a result of me being a new divergent as opposed to me being bad with money?

So I put out a survey on LinkedIn.

I really only wanted 50 people to respond, but I asked for 100 because you always have to with these surveys.

I asked for a hundred and I received 100 responses less than 24 hours.

And when I was looking at the feedback and the survey that was coming in, I said to myself, I'm going to leave this survey open for a little bit longer because I feel like people really do want to share their challenges and their goals.

And so I left the survey open for about a week.

And in total I've had 360, 68 people complete that survey.

And the results in the survey are shocking.

So the participants were all 18 plus.

New divergence all around UK.

And some of the key outputs or the key challenges that came out of that was that 80% overspend when they're stressed.

77% Struggle with planning ahead financially.

So that's where executive dysfunction comes in.

76 Struggle to budget or to track their spending.

73% Experience fear of shame around money.

And there was only 4% that said that they didn't experience financial challenges.

But it just goes to show how much new divergence are struggling in the area of finance.

And in connection to that, in connection to income and workplace, 60, about 61% said that they could be earning more if they had better support.

And 11 cited discrimination or bullying that led to limiting in their income.

And 11% reported that they didn't have flexibility in their work arrangements.

And so there's a direct correlation between the jobs we do, the environments we're in and the support that we have that impact our finances, impact our career progression, it impacts the jobs that we get in.

Interestingly, in my report, 83% were women.

So that just goes to show that more and more women are being diagnosed later in life.

43% Reported being on the autism spectrum and 41% reported ADHD.

Interestingly, each person had more than one neurotype, so they were combined.

So somebody may have dyslexia, also have adhd, dyspraxia, also have autism.

The income range varied.

So, you know, 22% and between 25 to 35K, 9.7% and 75K and above.

But the challenges were the same.

And, you know, for me it's while some coaching clients on a personal level and whilst they are getting the support that they need to overcome challenges on a personal level, there is so much systemic change that needs to happen within the workplace, within the education system.

Thankfully, they have introduced financial education in primary schools, but it's not mandatory at the moment.

But I think it should be, and I think it should also be in, in, in secondary schools and in colleges and universities, because those who are now in college are going to miss out on that education.

So there's a lot that needs to be done systemically and that's why I have the podcast, is to kind of echo the voices of the 368 people in my survey, to also echo the voices of people that I work with, one to one that most often carry a lot of shame, a lot of guilt, they feel like they're behind, they blame themselves, they think there's something wrong with them.

So, yeah, if that.

I hope I answered your question because I kind of went on there on a tangent.

No, no, no.

First of all, it was so important to hear those statistics because we need to hear this.

Because first of all, I mean, from an anecdotal perspective of so many of the women I work with, this matches perfectly.

This is what I hear as well.

And I think you use the word systemic so well because it really is, you know, like you say, as Women, we didn't have this awareness about our neurodivergence.

So we never knew, we never understood.

So what's the alternative?

Shift?

Shame, embarrassment, internalization.

None of this, These conversations have been normalized.

So the more we talk about it and get it out there, the better.

So women can kind of go, oh, so maybe it's not just me being stupid or maybe it's not me like having no clue about money.

There's an underlying issue going on here that maybe I can explore and also understanding that this is not our fault, you know, if we weren't taught this, if we weren't model this again systemic.

So we're going to see this through the generations.

We do know in neurodivergence that we are more likely to have, whether it's a family breakdown, earning, earning loss or you know, business disruption, financial issues, addiction.

So many multi layered complex issues come with undiagnosed neurodivergence that's never been explained.

Which just leads to sort of like a self narrative of we're just broken or we just, there's something wrong with us and we can't, you know, we can't get fixed or there's just something that we, that's part of our family and that's just the way things are.

We don't do things that way.

And it's breaking all these narratives down and then re rebuilding, you know, new foundations.

And I hope that the women who are listening to this now look for that support and get that help.

Because no one is past, you know, understanding and learning.

You know, I'm 45 and still some of the things I'm learning, I'm just like, oh my God, I should really know this.

Like really like it's embarrassing.

But no one taught it to me.

I'm literally having to learn this.

And now because I have my own business and I'm not a man and I'm not round a table full of men.

I have to literally ask the questions and put myself out there to say I'm really sorry for being stupid.

I still say these words or can I ask a stupid question?

But why is it this or why can't I do that?

That.

What does that mean?

But it's really frustrating because you know, my husband, he knows all the answers.

He sits around the table with other men and they hear, they, they talk about it all and they get answers.

So we as women should be getting the answers as well.

So I think, I think, you know, the more empowerment we get with all of this, it feeds back into our well being.

Because if we are focusing on all the different other areas of our life, but from a financial perspective, we're still kind of shaming ourselves and repressing and not fully being out there authentically, then there is going to be a part of us that you know, is feeling quite sort of like suppressed or.

Yeah, there's underlying trauma there.

I definitely think there's such a thing as financial trauma.

Yes, 100%.

So if someone's listening to this right now, how can they get help?

What do you do?

What other services are out there and where should we start?

You know, if there's a woman out there that who wants to maybe start her own business is like, you know what?

I'm neuro.

I found out I'm neurodivergent later on in life and I really don't want to work anymore under these conditions.

I want to start my own business, but the fear of the finances is stopping me.

Where, where should someone start?

Gosh, that feels so close to home, Kate.

Because.

Yeah, so I would say that like there are charities available.

So you have step change.

There are charities available.

If you feel like you're in crisis point, do reach out.

I know that sometimes avoiding it and leaving it for longer, but do reach out because thank God, since COVID a lot of the organizations, a lot of the creditors now have to engage with us.

They have to offer payment plans, they have to offer debt repayment plans.

They have to kind of be more supportive.

Whereas before it was like you're late and that's it, you're penalized.

Now they kind of have to engage.

So there's a lot more support available.

I always say to my clients, if they feel comfortable, let them know that you're new divergent.

Let them know you know your neurotype.

That I struggle with understanding things written down.

That's why I have to call because sometimes they'll force you to send an email or they'll force you to go online.

So just saying to them, I'm calling because I can't understand or I find it difficult to process the text and I prefer to talk to someone so there's letting them know that you need support and what type of support.

There are charities out there.

There are financial coaches.

I think if you are a neurodivergent, do find somebody that understands your neurotype, especially if you're ADHD and it might mean you working with an ADHD coach and a financial coach or find someone like me who can combines the two together and has lived Experience, I would say somebody who.

So I actually just resigned from my job.

So I resigned.

Bittersweet.

And this is actually one of the messages that I want to come out of today's podcast is I really want to home in on, on women, understanding that if we don't address burnt out, if we don't address stress, that it can lead to burnout.

So because I am late diagnosed, I highly mask in my job.

So my work, no matter what career I'm in, when I was in corporate, it's the area that I hyper focus in.

Like I go in and I want to do an amazing job, I want to smash it like everyone else.

But I have all these challenges, right?

So it means that I go into work at 7 o'.

Clock.

Officially I'm not supposed to be there till nine, but I know I need to get a head start.

I need to read these board papers, I need to prepare for the meetings and it's quiet and I can do it now.

And it meant that I would work late, work weekends.

And so that buildup of stress, although I couldn't see it physically, it was having an impact on my health.

And that impact led to, to high prolactin levels.

And prolactin is a stress hormone that we all carry.

You know, when you're rushing in the morning to go to work, catch the train or you're getting the kids ready, our prolactin level goes high, but it's supposed to come back down.

Mine was constantly high.

In the thousand range, the average is about 300 to 400.

And so the years of masking, the years of undermining how much stress I was putting my body under and ignoring that led to hyperlactin, that led to miscarriages, that led to fertility issues.

And I'm open to talk about these because I really want women to pay attention to their well being.

This is why I love your podcast so much, because it really emphasizes on that.

And so I had a miscarriage in, in August.

I'm so sorry.

In September.

Sorry.

And that was my next rude awakening that I couldn't carry on with highly masking at work.

And I decided to, to resign and take a step back.

So for that new divergent who is like, I need to step back and I want to go into business, I would say like, let it be your choice.

It has to be a choice that you can make and only you will know the right time to make that choice.

And when the right time comes, I would definitely say you have to give yourself a moment to transition.

Because my ADHD is, is very much on productivity.

I find value in being productive, in doing things and getting things done.

And so whilst I resigned to take things easy and to rest, it's a struggle for me even now because I'm having to define, well, what does rest mean?

Yeah, to me, rest is being in my bed under the duvet with a cup of tea and my laptop on my lap, working.

That's rest to me.

And so like when I'm stressed and my husband, like just go and rest, he knows he's going to come in that bedroom and there's a laptop or an iPad on my lap.

And so what I would say is just plan for that transition because you're easily going to want to step into your business as you do in your job, right.

The thing that was causing you the stress, the thing where you are highly masking.

So just know that there's a transition phase and you might see patterns repeat itself and just be aware of it, Be observant.

What I did is that I actually said to myself, okay, for the first two weeks of no longer having that schedule, I'm just not going to have a schedule.

I'm literally just going to see what feels natural, like what's my natural waking up time, you know, what are the times of the day that I prefer to do tasks.

And for two, three weeks I just didn't have a calendar.

And then I learned some things about myself.

I realized that, okay, I'm a six o', clock, get up in the morning person, I'm gonna have my cup of coffee and do my devotion person.

And I realize actually my first meeting needs to be like after 10, because those first three hours of the day is when I can hyperpoint, focus and get things done.

So there's really understanding yourself, get to know this new version of yourself, understand the patterns and then strategize around finance.

I would say get your finances in order, right?

So what that looks like is having a place where you keep all of your financial documents.

When you want to find something, you know where to go.

And it's easy to find because sometimes what makes the decision harder is when physically it's chaotic, right?

You don't know where your insurance documents are.

You don't know where your last three months bank statement is.

So just getting your financial house in order, having one place for your documents, knowing where to find it.

And then I would also say review your expenses, review and see where, where is my money going?

Where am I spending?

And create a baseline of how much do I actually need to live on to be able to survive and build this business?

You know, have.

Have a baseline.

If you're able to save in advance for that, that makes the transition easier.

For some people, they don't have that transition.

And so there is the pressure of you resigned from your corporate job and you're starting a business, and now you have to make that money happen.

And what I would say, say is, you know, for some people, it's doing the thing that you're good at and that interests you, and then selling those services.

For other people, it could be doing the thing that's going to bring in the income.

Thankfully, I had the support of my husband, so it made the transition a lot smoother.

But I still have the pressure on myself, you know, to get so many coaching clients in, you know, in this month.

But I have to remind myself, why did I resign and why am I doing my business?

I'm doing it for health.

I'm doing it to slow down.

And it's something that I'm learning every day.

And I'm building it in my own way, right?

I get to focus on the areas that I love and enjoy in my business, the things that I don't like doing.

I can pay someone else to do that.

And thankfully, so the story does end on a good note.

Since I resigned, my prolactin levels have been gone in the normal range, and I had irregular bleeding for two months.

And this as well was the thing that made me say, okay, something has to change.

I had irregular bleeding for two months.

And that was because after the miscarriage, I returned to work, and it was as if I was never away.

I just went right back straight into it.

And even my manager was saying, esther, I'm so sorry that we couldn't do a phase return for you.

I'm so sorry that you've come into all of this work.

And after Christmas, I was dreading going back.

And I bled for two, two months.

And that was my body telling me, I can't no longer keep this stress going.

Something has to give.

And so as much as my workplace, you know, my manager really tried, they really, really tried to make adjustments, but it was too late for me.

And the analogy that I. I gave was that I felt like I was on the treadmill.

I'm going 100 miles per hour, I'm thirsty, I'm dehydrated, and there's all these people around me saying, esther, drink.

Has some water, drink.

But I'm 100 miles an hour on this.

And I just felt like I needed to just come off the treadmill, take a breather and then hydrate myself.

And so that's kind of essentially what I've done is I've just taken myself out because I, even though they offered adjustments, it was always with a caveat.

We don't know how long this will remain for.

We might have to move you to another project that might increase your stress.

And I'm glad that they were honest with me.

Essentially they were saying, look, we're not promising that we'll take the stress away.

So I needed to decide for myself is that the environment that I wanted to remain in.

So I hope someone listening, you know, if your health is in a bad shape, I really want you to pay attention to that because our body can only go on, it can only carry us for so long.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing.

And I know for a fact that there'll be lots of people resonating different, different scenarios and situations.

But like you say, burnout is just so prolific in our community and it's often our nervous system screaming at us that we're in a conditioning and environment that is not working for us.

And it's never about being lazy or not being productive or not doing enough.

It's just about being in the wrong environment.

You know, like you say you're super productive in the morning and then may maybe that sort of wanes off, but that doesn't work with this sort of corporate 9 to 5, being on background noise, sensory overload, not having control over our, you know, how we want to work.

And you know, just I think our nervous system 100% knows when we are, when we're not able to make decisions, we're not able to advocate for ourselves.

That in itself can feel very unsafe.

And then there's something else I wrote down here when you were talking that very much.

It's when we go off on our own and we do decide to, you know, become self employed, we have to be so considered around our self worth because living with ADHD or any form of neurodivergence and discovering this later on in life, there will definitely be stories and beliefs that we've told ourselves.

And then we, you know, we start and this, and maybe I'm going to speak for myself here, but when you start, like my pricing, my costs, what I thought I had to over give consistently and still often do reflected the self worth of the, the stories that I would tell myself and I would say, well, I can't charge for that and I need to give them that for free.

I need to prove myself, I need to make sure that people, you know, know I'm being authentic or I'm not taking advantage of people or all these different things.

And it's so, it is so part of our self worth that we can overwork and overcompensate and push ourselves and be over productive to prove ourselves.

And we're also very sort of just as sensitive as well.

So there's part of that like if we've committed to something we want to see a job through, you know, like what you said about, you know, coming to the office at point some seven, so many people overwork who are neurodivergent because we need that calm, we need that time so our brains can work in the way we want them to work.

And because, you know, from 9 o' clock onwards it's chaos, it's noisy, it's meeting, it's interruptions.

And then we think, well, we've not done a good enough job that perfectionism kicks in.

And no wonder, listening to your story, that prolactin was so high.

You know, we hear ADHD women or neurodivergent women have a much higher rate of heart, heart disease, heart issues, cardiac issues.

Because of the stress that we're under, we see autoimmune conditions, much higher gut, hormonal health, women's health issues.

It's all connected.

And so often it's connected to the burnout.

And what's contributing to the burnout is this undiagnosed neurodivergence not using our awareness.

And then I always say it's that crucial point of the diagnosis or the awareness, the work on ourselves, getting the help and the support and then making these quite often very difficult decisions around, well, is that going to work for me anymore?

Can I work in that environment or can I do those hours or can I live in that place anymore?

But yeah, I mean, thank you so much for sharing, for sharing that story because I think it's, you know, none of this is perfect and I'm sure as you're navigating this journey yourself, you know, we always know that there's ups and downs being, you know, your own boss.

And I have it every week for sure.

But I still know I would take the stress that I put myself under in this scenario working for some, someone else in a different environment.

There's just no way I could, could cope with that.

I just know that, yeah, 100%.

And I always say that I just being able to manage my own calendar Work according to my energy levels.

I can be a night owl.

So sometimes that podcast is getting recorded at three o' clock in the morning.

You know, sometimes I'm scheduling those emails to go out the next day at 4 o' clock in the morning and I get to work with how my energy flows and that's just is such an important thing.

And I think, you know, for me, started my business, I've had to look out not to have too many subscriptions looking out for that, not to oversubscribe.

And I had, you know, price challenges.

What type of clients do I want to work with?

What are the client types that I use up a lot of my energy?

I'm a neurodivergent myself and so I want to make sure that in sessions that I'm showing up and I'm resourceful for the clients that I'm working with.

And I've had to say let go of some offers with corporates because they wanted to underpay me.

And so sometimes you have to be okay with walking away because you know your worth.

And for those who are in corporate, having the right job fit is so, so important.

So a lot of my clients that are in corporate, I recommend to them that they work with a career coach.

Really plan and think about the career that you're going in and working in.

And if you're in business, I would say get a work with a business coach like, you don't have to figure this out on your own.

Join communities, link up with other new Divergent business owners and you'd be surprised.

You know, you're able to body double.

I body double with a lot of my new Divergent friend, you know, business owners.

And it's how we get things done.

We're accountable to one another.

We get to share the ups and downs with one another.

So I would say don't go on the journey alone.

Get support, be a part of a community and believe in yourself.

Yes, there are the challenges, but lean into your strengths because they are there and they are needed in this world.

Yeah.

Thank you so, so much, Esther.

You've just been so relatable and I really think that what you've said will resonate with so many people.

You know, tell us how someone wants to get in touch with you or work with you.

What's the best, best way?

So I start off with the new Divergent money survey.

I actually produced a report on that and that's available for free.

So I would recommend everyone to have a read at it just so that you know that Any challenges you're having, you're not alone.

There are other people experiencing the same.

But you can find me on LinkedIn, @Estebangura, on Instagram I am boss of my money.

That's my handle.

And I also have a website, estherbangura.com you can find out more about my coaching services.

And I have a podcast, Neo Divergent Money Management.

I release episodes every Tuesday and Thursday so you can tune in there.

Amazing.

Well, thank you so much.

I'll make sure that's all in the show notes for everyone and they can really kind of have a deep dive into into the work that you offer.

Thank you for sharing.

Esther and I. Hopefully we'll speak very soon.

Thank you so much.

And I just want to say I'm going on holiday on Friday and I'm going to be reading your book on the flight with me, so I look forward to reading it.

Well, thank you for that.

I really appreciate it.

If you've been affected by difficult topics mentioned in today's episode, please do go to the Show Notes for links to helpful resources and support.

Support.

Thank you for being here and listening to today's episode.

I just want to remind you that if you are looking for more support on your ADHD journey, there are so many resources waiting for you over@adhd womenswellbeing.co.uk so inside the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Workshop Library, you'll find practical and compassionate guidance on topics such as nervous system regulation, rejection, sensitive dysphoria, perfectionism, emotional regulation, hormones, parenting and so much more.

All designed specifically for late diagnosed neurodivergent women.

You can also explore my new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, which was published by dk, which is also available in ebook and audiobook, which is packed full of tools to help you feel calmer, more regulated and more like yourself.

And if you do crave a bit more deeper connection and ongoing support, come and join us inside the More Yourself Community.

It's a gentle space for learning, reflection and connection with other neurodivergent women.

And you'll also find the recordings from our first ever ADHD Women's Wellbeing Live event, which brought together incredible speakers and a room full of inspiring women for a truly special day.

We have recorded it all for you and it's there to buy.

So whether you're just starting your journey or looking to go deeper, there's something there for every stage.

Just head to ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk to explore everything and as always, thank you so much for being here and for being part of this community.