If you've ever wondered what it's really like to walk beside women through birth, to witness transformation in its rawest, most powerful form, then you're going to love this chat. It's for the mums who’ve felt unsure of their birth choices, those curious about home birth, or anyone who’s ever questioned the systems that hold us during pregnancy and labour.

In this episode, Dr. Renee White sits down with Oceane Campbell, midwife, mother, and author of Labor of Love, a breathtaking memoir about her journey into midwifery. With honesty, heart, and a touch of humour, Oceane shares what led her from a nomadic childhood to a career in supporting women through birth and everything she's learned along the way.

This one’s for the mamas craving connection, stories that stir your soul, and a reminder that birth can be beautiful, messy and deeply empowering all at once.

You’ll hear about:

• How Oceane’s nomadic childhood and personal experiences shaped her approach to birth and midwifery
• Her first-ever birth experience as a witness, and how it lit the spark
• The realities of birth trauma and how we can start to shift the conversation
• What it really means to be present and in tune with birthing women
• Encouragement for anyone considering midwifery as a calling

Whether you're pregnant, postpartum, or passionate about birth work, this episode will make you feel seen, heard, and gently held in the power of women's stories.

🎁 Enter the Giveaway! Head to our Instagram @fillyourcup_ and follow the instructions on the giveaway post to win a copy of Labor of Love

Resources and Links:

📲 Want to chat more about this? Connect with Renee on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

🌐 Want to learn more about Dr Renee White and explore Fill Your Cup Doula services

🍪If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

📚 Grab a copy of Oceane’s book, Labor of Love: Available at Booktopia, Dymocks, and all good bookstores

📲 Follow Oceane on Instagram: @oceane_campbell_writer

🎧 Check out her first book, The Silence Between Us, co-authored with her mother, Cécile Barral

🎧 Loved this episode? Share it with a friend who’s navigating early motherhood or dreaming of becoming a midwife. If you haven’t already, hit subscribe and leave a review so more mums can find these conversations.

Because every birth story matters. And when we speak them out loud, we make space for others to feel supported and strong too. 💛

This episode is proudly sponsored by Tassie Mums, a volunteer-powered charity supporting children and families in need across Tasmania. Learn more about their Coats for Kids 2025 campaign and how you can get involved by donating preloved items that help keep little ones warm this winter.

Website: https://tassiemums.org/

Facebook: Tassie Mums

Instagram: @tassie_mums

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to the Science of Motherhood. This episode is proudly supported by Tassie Mums. Imagine not having warm clothes in winter and it is, it's definitely cooling down here in Hobart already. I know it's like mid-April, and I tell you what, I am already putting my electric blanket on before I jump into bed.

Now this winter, they are hopefully rallying together to collect a thousand coats for disadvantaged kids across Tasmania. So from the 1st of April through to the 16th of May, your support can help ensure that every child stays cozy and warm. I have gone through our wardrobes and we have found at least four coats that do not fit my daughter anymore, and I am bundling them up and I am popping them into a garbage [00:02:00] bag. And I'm gonna take them to our local Tassie Mums, uh, drop-off location in Sandy Bay. So you can do that as well. Get your school, your business, or your club involved. It's easy to join the cause. You can donate new or gently used warm coats, jackets, vests, and rain coats.

We have got a selection of those. We even have like a, a full kind of kit that my daughter wore only once to a real kind of messy play outdoor mudslide thing, which is so it's super brightly colored. I cannot wait to pass that on to another child in need. Now there are some parameters. The items must be clean, stain free, and in excellent conditions.

Um, if you wanna get those exact locations, head over to their Instagram, which is Tassie_Mums, and you can DM them there to get the exact location of those drop off points. Or you can just click their Instagram through the, uh, in the show notes section here. So let's all get together, let's make a difference, help spread the word to other friends and families that we are gonna be supporting the coats for kids for Tassie Mums this year.

So it is going to be, uh, the book of today's guest, which is super, super cool. Like, I, I read this book and I was like, oh man, this is a topic that I could just deep dive into. It's, it, it is, it's, it's kind of biography memoir type thing, but it is, um, around midwifery and birth and, you know, essentially. The, the life and stories of this [00:05:00] gorgeous author, Oceane Campbell, who we've got on the podcast today.

If you would like to enter, um, the giveaway head over to our Instagram, which you will see the link in the show notes. But for all those playing at home, you can just head over to our Insta account, which is fill your cup all one word underscore, fillyourcup_ uh, make sure you hit a follow and then you can see in at the post it says Giveaway Giveaway.

She has just a beautiful way of writing, which I love. Like it's, it's that style where, and I I did say to her, are you gonna record the audio of this? I, I, I could hear her voice in it, like, and I hadn't even spoken to her before, like, I think. Do you know how there's just some people where you're like, yeah, this person can really write Well, that's exactly what she was, and I love the fact that it was, it was storytelling the whole [00:07:00] time.

It was about her journey, um, to becoming a midwife, her student days, you know, her becoming a mother and I guess, you know, really finding her feet in midwifery practice. What I find super interesting, and we actually talk about this in the podcast, is the fact that she completed a psychology degree before she became a midwife and I think that that has had a really big impact on her becoming an excellent midwife. I think she is very, uh, in tune with human behavior and subtle, subtle and nuanced kind of behaviors, particularly in that birthing space. So, yeah, I, I definitely picked that up along the way with the storytelling. In, in the book, in, in this discussion, we talk about home births, we talk about birth trauma.

But we also talk about, you know, the life and career of, of being a midwife and, you know. What, what advice you would give for those, considering that as a career. Um, I'm gonna stop rambling. I really want you to listen to this. I think it's amazing and if you love it, please share it with other people. Uh, hit us up with a review. We love five star reviews. It gives us great awareness and um, you know, knowledge is power. Alright, here is Oceane Campbell.

Oceane Campbell: I'm well, thank you so much for having me.

Dr Renee White: Oh, my pleasure. Now, uh, the listeners would've heard from the introduction that we are having a chat today, specifically around your book, your new book, 'cause you're already an author. Um, and for all those playing at home who can actually see Labor of Love, which can I just first say. This is such a gorgeous, like, artistry on the front, like I, I know like don't judge a book by its cover, but I'm judging because it's bloody beautiful. Like, do you have a hand in like selecting the artwork on the front? I always like to know this from authors.

Oceane Campbell: So yes and no early on in the piece, they ask you for any covers that you like, anything you don't like, any, um, imagery you have already formed in your head. But I'm someone who likes to just give jobs to the people who do them best.

Dr Renee White: Yes.

Dr Renee White: Happy to outsource.

Oceane Campbell: That's right. I did have a number of photos that I sent them that was around midwives and women. Yeah. Close. Yeah. And there were photos from my own births, but there were just images that, for me, and captured exactly what this book is about and what the midwife relationship should be like.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: And then there was a few other books that I loved the cover of, just in terms of the colors or whatever. Mm-hmm. And then amazingly, this is what magically came back. And I, like you said, thank you. I absolutely love it. It's really,

Dr Renee White: it's gorgeous.

Oceane Campbell: It's shows yeah such a beautiful dance and comfort and love and

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: Support between these two yeah.

Oceane Campbell: Sure. Um, I'm now in my forties, which is a bit wild to say, coming into my own coming of age, maybe even.

Dr Renee White: Welcome to the club.

Oceane Campbell: Thank you. You, I've had, I've had what some people say, an interesting life. Lots of, lots of change and turmoil and adventure and fun. I grew up very nomadic with my family around Australia. We were homeless, living in a tent, living in a caravan. My mum had three children. We were all born at home. Mm-hmm and I grew up hearing those stories and living a very, a very free and adventurous life, we settled in the bush, I did, um, lots of, you know, fun, wild, independent things from a very young age. Mm-hmm. And I went through school and uni. I studied psychology first, which was sort of an interesting choice because I'd always wanted to be a midwife, but at the time there was no direct entry midwifery.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

And actually this book sort of starts there because I had this, two weeks of reflection time on the Lara Pinta Trail in Central Australia and that's just a beautiful place to make big life decisions. Mm-hmm. Because the universe feels enormous and expansive and you feel connected to sort of everyone and everything. But also you are on your own on this hike, you know, you don't come across many people. Mm-hmm. Anyway, I was really, I think for the first time in many, many years, able to really just tune into [00:13:00] myself.

Mm. And ignore the chatter and the expectations and the fears around, you know, what a career should look like. And I came out of that hike, deciding to go sign up to do a Bachelor of midwifery. That was, um, about 12, 13 years ago now. I went, signed up and a few months later I was on my way and I just have not looked back since. It has been the most glorious and incredible career change, and I have just embraced it. It's a, it's a real calling, I think, to be a midwife.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: And so lots, lots has changed in my life. I, I sort of identify so strongly with this profession now.

Oceane Campbell: Oh yeah.

Dr Renee White: Done that.

Oceane Campbell: I haven't done it, but I know of it yeah.

And it took me like a day and a half to actually get back onto my phone when I got back. But the interesting thing was that when you are, and this is similar to like what you were saying, when you're out there, it's just silence like you are, I was walking with four other women. But you're so focused on where you're gonna put your foot next that we, there was a bit of conversation, but you're in your head the whole time and it's this beautiful time, as you say, for reflection and possibly to make some big life choices.

I mean, I didn't make a huge life choice. I was like, when I get back, I'm definitely getting a new tattoo, which I did on Monday. Um, I didn't, I didn't change my career, but like, I totally get it. When you say, you know, you put yourself in nature, it's something like, it is, it's medicine, I think um,

Dr Renee White: Yes, it is. I don't know about you, but I like talking about taking tech away from you. I have all of my best ideas come to me when I'm in the shower. No tech, no one around me and I just like stand there. Actually, occasionally my husband will like yell out and be like, what are you doing in there? And I'm just like

Oceane Campbell: Having great ideas leave me alone.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. I mean, there's been so many shifts, haven't there?

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: The sort of long, long, long, long ago where it was lay midwives, it was the, the mothers, the aunties in the community helping for home birth. Mm-hmm. Then, I mean, other people are much better at the, the historics of this than me, but then there was a shift which brought it into the hospital and I think a large part of that was around control and the medical establishment, which back then was old white men who wanted power and control and wanted to be right and to, to be in charge of the situation.

Private midwifery was accepted. It was a safe, um, space, and there was great collaboration between local GPs and midwives. So my mum had her first two babies in South Australia. She had a private midwife who worked with a GP and if there were two, you know, when my mum went into labor with her first, there was, um, another woman giving birth and the midwife and the GP said, oh, which you know, we'll, I'll go to one.

Dr Renee White: Yeah partners shouldn't be there. I've heard this, which like, like, I'm just like, what the heck?

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that, that was, that was the, the, the common known trend for, for a long time. And obviously that has changed.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: And then that's when we need the systems in place to transfer, to get extra help to consult with doctors to get that backup of the medical model. Mm-hmm. Um, whereas I, I, I don't think that's the way that society necessarily sees it. I think the messaging is you leave your dignity at the door.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: It's the biggest risk, you know, it's the, the scariest thing that you'll go through. It's the highest risk in your life. Mm-hmm. To you and your babies is birth, which the statistics just don't, don't support.

Dr Renee White: No, because the, I mean

Dr Renee White: is it, I'm trying to recall. It was, uh, part of, was it Hannah Darling who did the study, or like one of her, someone from her team that showed, was it her or Hazel Kele? I can't remember but one of them,

Oceane Campbell: they're both brilliant.

Dr Renee White: Yes. Both exceptional women who've um, been on the podcast, if you ha if PE people haven't listened to those, please go back and listen to those. But one of, I think one of them did that study and they showed that home births are as safe, if not safer. Uh, yes. Then, you know, being in the hospital, if you've got a quote unquote normal kind of tracking pregnancy

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: That you need the criteria for being a well and healthy person with a, a, a well and healthy, you know, pregnancy, that it is actually safer because you're avoiding unnecessary intervention.

Dr Renee White: Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I don't know about you, but as a, as a doula who was practicing in Melbourne at the time of Covid Lockdowns, now I wasn't a birth doula, but I was postpartum. So not at the complete cold face, but I was definitely, um, amongst it, shall we say. Mm-hmm. I definitely noticed a trend of, stuff the hospital, we're doing home births now. Like I just saw a huge uptick in that of women taking back control, as you say, because the policies kept changing week on week. And yes, you can have a partner, no, you can't have a partner. Yes you can, but they gotta do this and that, and da da and like, you know, jump through flaming hoops and what have you.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah, I did. I mean, firstly I experienced it myself. I was pregnant with, um. It was the bush fire, the summer, the black summer bush fires when I was in early pregnancy. Yeah. So I was like, oh, great. I'm, you know, ruining my baby by being out in this pollution and then straight into Covid

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

I remember feeling that anxiety of what if I need to transfer into the hospital? What if something happens? I, I can't be separated from my other kids for days. If, if I have a premature baby, if I have something goes slightly wrong mm-hmm. I'm still breastfeeding my toddler and covid rules will, will mean that she can't come in to see me. I haven't been separated from her for a night. I mean, I'd barely been separated for a night or two from my five-year-old at the time. Yeah. And I just thought, what, how will I be able to have my village around me if I can't have this home birth? And it, it, it was worrying, it was hard and I, I saw it play out at work so many times.

And she ended up, the mother ended up being the one to stay for the birth and it was a beautiful, fast, lovely birth. She was absolutely beaming and, and for her it meant so much to have this, you know, reclaim this power in his birth.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: But her husband missed it. Yeah. And I thought. How he also lived through that first birth trauma. Mm-hmm. He watched what his partner went through. He also had to muddle through the, the postnatal depression and the anxiety and, and everything that happened to that woman. Mm-hmm. And now he's not going to share in this moment because of bloody covid regulations.

Yeah. And that was for her third, right? Yeah. And so she had experienced some trauma with her previous two, which were in a hospital setting. And so she was like, okay, I am gonna go for the home birth. My question to you is, you know that moment, this is your [00:27:00] first kind of imprint in your brain of visualising birth, and you see this as a very, you know, physiological nor quote unquote normal birth. I'm kind of curious on, on one side you're like, okay, this is the imprint, this is what we are aiming for, for everyone. But then also were, you kind of thinking. Hold on a minute. Why isn't everyone doing this? Like this is like, this is an awesome way to birth. Like I'd love to know your thoughts. Is that something that you've kind of thought about in your brain because like you do work in a hospital setting? Yeah. Um, and I, I don't know, like in my brain I was just like, is this the moment where Oceane was just like, yeah, why aren't we all just doing this?

Oceane Campbell: I mean, yes, but I already had that in my head because of my mum's stories.

Dr Renee White: Right, right.

Dr Renee White: Yeah. That's just how we do it.

Oceane Campbell: It's lovely and there's a fire, you know, crackling in the corner and the older siblings can kind of wander in and out and like, and then you just tuck up in bed with your new baby and call it a day and like, yeah. So of course everyone would want to do that and I had this very positive image. Mm. Seeing it in real life because it, it was different and I was jaw dropped, eyes wide open. Mm-hmm. Like just, I was absolutely in awe. And I still remember that, that moment of catching this glimpse of this baby's head and this like, what is that? Like what is about to happen?

And it all happened so quickly that you're like, what, what did just happen? Can we re project?

Dr Renee White: Yeah. I just wanna rewind to put that in slowmo now. Yeah.

She had a very complicated psychosocial history, a lot of, um, yeah, a lot of factors really playing into her body and how she was going to feel with all the interventions and everything. Mm-hmm. And I really felt for her watching that all play out. Um, and then she had a vacuum birth, so ventouse or vacuum, which is the little suction cap, but then the doctor pulls on and the woman pushes and, and Anne had had a vacuum with her first, and she'd felt pressured and forced into it, and like it was [00:30:00] done without proper consent. Mm-hmm. And that it wasn't necess, you know, really necessary. And that had caused, and trauma, birth trauma. And then for this woman, this, this, you know, baby's in distress and it's not coming quick enough and she's had a previous cesarean.

She was under enormous amount of financial pressure in her life and stressful relationships. Mm-hmm. So for her to be able to drive and, and get up the next day and, and not have a cesarean wound affecting her mm-hmm was, was really important. So for her, there was a, a, a victory in her birth, but that, I mean, it taught me how different it can all be. Yeah. It taught me that what one person's trauma might not be somebody else's.

Dr Renee White: Yes. Yep.

Dr Renee White: Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: Like I, um, but it also made me realize that it is so complex mm-hmm. And that there is no right or wrong and that for this woman, you know, a ventouse was, was not going to be a trauma for her. Yeah. Other things might be Yeah. But that was actually not, and that I have to not judge what I think looks better, quote unquote. Yeah. Or what looks nicer and whatever yeah from my opinion and put that onto the women I care for.

Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really great point. Um, 'cause uh, we have spoken about birth trauma previously on the podcast, and it's such an important thing to note that what is someone else's trauma may not be you know, another person's trauma. Yeah. In the sense,

Dr Renee White: I'm one of them.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah, that's right. And I, I have actually heard you, you know, talk on your podcast about that and it's really lovely to hear. Yeah. And it's really important for other women to hear those positive stories. Yeah. So that it's not a one size fits all. This is a good birth. That's a bad birth. If you had an epi epidural, you did it wrong. If you did it drug free, you get a special award at the end. Yeah. Like none of that, you know,

Dr Renee White: that doesn't exist, ladies

Oceane Campbell: doesn't exist. But, you know, I say that to women. I, it's, you know, when they look at me with that sort of question of like, is it okay to have an epidural? Or what do you think? And it's like, it's not my body. Mm-hmm. I, I want you to make an informed decision. I want you to know what the implications of your decision are. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I want you to feel, you know, like you can do whatever feels best for you because you have to go home and mother this baby, you have to remember your birth.

Oceane Campbell: And own it in your body.

Dr Renee White: Absolutely.

Oceane Campbell: You know, there's yeah there's no right or wrong.

Dr Renee White: Yeah. Um, yeah. A hundred percent. Um, I'm curious to know, so in the book you have this amazing mentor, Val. Um, I feel like, I feel like if when people read the book, I think everyone will go, yeah that's, they'll think of their Val in their, in their brain. I always, I'm like, yeah, yeah. Got you on that one. And like, I, I, I, I don't want it to be a downer, but you talk about with Val, and this is a conversation I think you have early on in your student days, you said to her, why don't doctors trust midwives? And she mentions the book Birth Wars and I was

Oceane Campbell: That's an amazing book,

Oceane Campbell: Oh, Ellie was birthing.

Dr Renee White: Yes.

Dr Renee White: That's right.

Oceane Campbell: Couldn't get a private midwife. So you're here in the hospital and

Dr Renee White: That's right.

Oceane Campbell: I get the baby's heart rate was showing big signs of distress. And there was, yeah, lots happening. But it was that thing of, wait a minute.

Dr Renee White: Yeah. And, and I think this is one of the things that I really am in quite awe of, and I think this is, maybe this is just my, like, stream of consciousness as I was like reading. I, I have this, um, like thought process. Like you've got this psychology background, I think you are very in tune with human behavior. And I think this is what amazing like superhero qualities of like really excellent midwives. You watch and you're in awe, like you were talking about with Anne's birth, how the two midwives were sitting there just knitting and they would like raise the head. They'd be watching and you know, go back to knitting.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. So birth wars. Um, so it, it's a real thing. The, the sort of divide between midwives and doctors has existed. This book Birth Wars that we're talking about, which is a fabulous read [00:38:00] written by a journalist from memory mm-hmm and she was involved in a couple of big inquiries where there were disastrous outcomes mm-hmm and she was doing a deep dive to try and understand what the hell happened. One was definitely around a stillbirth, I can't remember the details, but it was maybe a woman with preeclampsia and she was, there was signs that things were going not right and then she was going to the hospital, but then, you know, it was not going well.

Mm. And that midwives and doctors aren't working well together, aren't accepting that they each have responsibility over a different part of a woman's care and when things are well and healthy, then that is actually the midwives remit to, to make those decisions and provide that care. And that we then need to recognise and be clinically watchful, which is like those beautiful midwives at home.

Mm-hmm. Be clinically watchful enough to know when things are starting to not go right and to get input and, and refer or, or consult with our doctor colleagues. Mm-hmm. And that is so important for both ways. And then the turf war on the other side is doctors wanting control saying, you know, we need to be there.

I remember when I started my training, there was a real, a real dialogue around that. And I think it was at a time, and this is sort of 10, 12 years ago, where there wasn't always a really respectful relationship between doctors and midwives. It absolutely existed a lot and there were midwives who spoke really highly of doctors, and doctors who spoke really highly of midwives. And there was beautiful examples of, of how it worked really well sometimes. Mm-hmm. But there was also an element of, you know, hey, this is my space, butt out of it. Yeah. And vice versa. And then, and then doctors not trusting midwives in return and it does come down to trust. I think that's, that's one of the things that [00:41:00] I personally learned over the course of, of writing this book.

But just, you know, my, my 10, 12 years as a midwife, that, and I noticed that changing that when I was junior, you could sense the, the mistrust. Mm-hmm. And you felt like your toes were being stepped on because you hadn't proven yourself. Yeah. And so you felt like doctors wouldn't trust you to do a vaginal examination even though I'd been in the room for eight hours. Yeah. And I had the relationship, the doctors would sort of come in and say, ah, I'm actually just going to do it and it's a mistrust of of me that mm-hmm. Was what I felt. Mm-hmm. But also, at the end of the day, it's actually the woman who then has a stranger coming in and maybe repeating a vaginal examination or, and it's hard because sometimes I would get things wrong.

Mm-hmm. I've noticed. There were those stories in the beginning and, and I've had stories where it's been really tense and there's been real, you know, sort of harsh disagreements and, and thankfully outside of the room, you, you, um, you know, obviously really important that you don't bring that into the woman's birthing space.

Mm-hmm. To talk through these things. I've realised how much better that is, and I don't, I don't feel like it's a turf war anymore. Yeah. I feel like, just like any professional relationship, there are moments of disagreement. There are [00:44:00] moments where there isn't the respect that I would like mm-hmm both ways. And I'm sure that some of the doctors feel like that too. And there are certainly issues that come up that are purely about doctor versus midwife stuff, but it is so much rarer. There is so much more appreciation and understanding both ways. I think and I mean, I, I think you, you might notice it as you sort of read the book, is that there is a real shift in terms of feeling like we are working together and that we are actually on the same team.

That means that if they don't want an intervention that might put their baby at a risk, do they have the fundamental right to do that? Yeah. I think another perspective is we just want a healthy, you know, a a a baby that's alive and a mother that's alive at the end of that. Mm-hmm. And when, when there is that perspective and the sort of holistic perspective, there will be a clash. Yeah. And there will be a turf war. Yeah. Because one person will say, well, if we just want a healthy, or, [00:46:00] you know, not even healthy, an alive baby and an alive mum, then yes, let's do this intervention. Let's wheel her around the corner for a cesarean mm-hmm because we can control that environment. Yeah.

Nevermind if, if she dies of an infection later or her next pregnancy has massive complications because of that cesarean, that's future. Yeah. That's a future worry won't count in this statistic that says, look at the end of, you know, by five o'clock we had a mum that was alive and a baby that was alive. And that's a real fear perspective because when you actually look at the statistics, we actually know that a cesarean birth is not actually the safest thing medically for a lot of women.

Dr Renee White: Yeah, yeah.

Oceane Campbell: Of course there are situations it is. Mm-hmm. But yes, I think there's sometimes that, that continued difference in philosophy that will mean there will always be some tension between health professionals who work in this space, and sometimes it's between two midwives or two doctors, or a midwife and a doctor. Yeah.

Oceane Campbell: such an easy one, get a known midwife, continuity of care is the gold standard. Mm-hmm. For so many different factors. Mm-hmm. It helps prevent preterm births and reduces all sorts of issues and increases all sorts of good things. So yeah, continuity of care and that, you know, lots of, um, lots of services offer that at the hospital, so it can still be a publicly funded option. Yeah. Obviously you can also access that through [00:48:00] private midwifery, but that is cost prohibitive for some, for some people. Yeah. It's a, an out-of-pocket expense. If you don't have continuity of care at your local service, write a really strongly worded letter to your local politician mm-hmm to advocate for, for it to be set up.

And then of course, that doesn't always help you in the immediate, you know, short term when you're already pregnant. Mm-hmm. But then there are other things you can do, like finding a supportive doula. Student midwives are great to have a, a familiar face and they won't be providing the clinical, you know, skill of, of a, a senior midwife but they absolutely provide incredible supportive care.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. I dunno the statistic, but it is low.

Dr Renee White: It's incredibly frustrating though. Like, knowing

Oceane Campbell: it's incredibly frustrating.

Dr Renee White: That it's the gold standard. Like, are we not doing this guys?

Oceane Campbell: I, I think it Hannah Darlin says like, if this was a pill, it would, you know, the

Dr Renee White: Oh 100 percent

Mm-hmm. And then sometimes there in some services, there's a continuity of care group practice for the really high risk. Mm-hmm. So for the triplets and the previous stillbirth at term and the really complicated medical, you know, I've had my heart replaced three times and I'm now pregnant women, which is amazing. But there's this huge gap in the middle of women who might have gestational diabetes or might have, you know, a sort of hormone, you know, thyroid issue or something that excludes them. I mean, thyroid actually, we sort of are accepting them now, but other things like that where they're then excluded from the low risk group practice. Mm-hmm. They're not unwell enough for the high risk group practice. Yeah. And they're sort of lumped together in, in mainstream care where they do see a different midwife every single time. Yeah. And [00:51:00] I mean, that's where the student midwife can, can be a great role there, but I think we, it, it would make such a big difference if we had more continuity of care.

Dr Renee White: Yeah. How does, like if someone's listening to this, how do you access a student midwife? Do you, do you kind of contact the hospital and say, Hey, this is something I would like to do?

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. So every union hospital works slightly differently. Mm-hmm. But generally at your first midwifery appointment, you can ask. Mm-hmm. And that they should know that midwife should know how to get you in contact. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes they, some hospitals literally have like a list mm-hmm. Of numbers and, and can sort of hand, they can write the woman's name down in a book and then the student midwife. Goes and looks and picks women who've got a due date that sort of works. Yeah. Sometimes it's, yeah, there's actually a student working there already in the clinic alongside a midwife or, yeah, there's all different ways, but definitely ask the, the midwife at, at your first appointment.

Oceane Campbell: I mean, if you're passionate about it, then do it. Yeah. It is hard. It is not like any other degree in terms of the clinical hours, the the being on call. So arm yourself for that. Mm-hmm. That it's gonna be a wild three years of your life where nothing's gonna feel very easy. Yeah. But, but it's, I mean, read my book. Yeah. 'cause that will give you such a, you know, a, a taste of what it's like. Yeah. I recently wrote an article for The Guardian about sort of a day in the life as you midwife like, this is what my day is like, [00:53:00] if that scares the crap out of you yeah.

Mm-hmm. It's a, it's a full on degree. Yeah. There is never going to be a perfect time. It's like having a child or moving house. There's never an easy time.

Dr Renee White: You just throw yourself in the deep end and swim.

Oceane Campbell: And there is, of course, there's lots of things you can do in terms of getting support and, and making sure that your village is like armed and ready to have your back. Mm-hmm. But if it's what you wanna do, it's amazing.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah, yeah. Well, well tell her to go get my book. Yes. And then she'll be signed up by the end of the year.

Dr Renee White: Yes, absolutely. Um, okay. We are gonna jump into our rapid fire. Are you ready? Okay. Uh, first question, what is your top tip for birthing mamas?

Dr Renee White: Yeah. I love that. Actually. It's something we talk about internally and I think, um, in our doula village, but then I was talking to a, a mum that I'm gonna support and I was talking about, you know, the plan and stuff and I, and she's like, but I like, this is my first, I don't. I don't know, like, I don't know what I don't know. And I was like, exactly like, and it's not a straight road. I always, I always say it's like a game of snakes and ladders, like we've just gotta know what's happening here and then we might go down here and then we are going to use this tool and, but as long as we all know what the piece on the puzzle, you know, on the, on the board are. Yeah. And if we roll a six, what does that mean? You know, as long as we know those things, I think we're in good stead.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Oceane Campbell: Um. The things that helped me the most were prioritising and I, I was really bad at doing it at first, and then I realised I really had to do it right at the end when I sort of was getting close to birth. And I wish I'd done it sooner is to just give yourself, whenever you can, however short or long it is a little moment to just stop and appreciate this amazing thing that you are part of, that you are growing this baby. And for me, I rediscovered it going for little walks when I was on mat leave and my toddler was at preschool and I'd have these two days where I could mm-hmm have a walk along the beach and just stopping [00:58:00] and feeling my belly and feeling the movements and just kind of doing a bit like self congratulations of Yeah look at this like, I'm pregnant, I'm growing a human being. Mm-hmm and just appreciating that, enjoying it. And I know pregnancy, like I was lucky in my pregnancy that I didn't have too many of the unpleasant symptoms. Mm-hmm. But just that, that stopping and appreciating meant the world to me.

Dr Renee White: Yeah. I love that. That's so, so good. Okay, we, this last question, we borrow this one from Brene Brown who I love. What do you keep on your bedside table?

Dr Renee White: I would've loved it. I would've been like queen Oceane

Dr Renee White: Okay. I have to ask, uh, books, what's, what's on this pile? Like, what, what do you, like if you had today, the rest of today to read a book, which one would you choose?

Oceane Campbell: I, the moment I've got Geraldine Brooks, the horse on my bedside table that the friend led me and I've been wanting to read, I also have in the Dreamhouse, I think it's called on my List. Mm-hmm and what else have I got on there at the moment? I have, I, I have a, a huge collection because I've just been to the Newcastle Writers Festival.

Dr Renee White: Okay.

Oceane Campbell: And I'm such a sucker for when you hear somebody talk about a book, and then I just want it, oh, Helen Garner the season. That's mm-hmm. There. Mm-hmm. And what else have I got on there at the moment? That's all I can think of.

Dr Renee White: Okay. Love it.

Dr Renee White: I love that. I, I used to be a hard book only kind of gal, and I was like, I bought a kindle years ago or something. I thought I would, yeah. I thought I would transition to Kindle and then I was like, I can't do it. I just can't do it and then a few years ago someone sent me a, you know, pre-published book that I had to read before a podcast, and it was PDF and I was like I got a Kindle still. And I read it on the Kindle and I was like, game changer, I'm done. I'm a Kindle girl now. Like, I was like, that's it. Not doing this anymore. So yes, I always love to know what format people, uh, read their books in, but I can't. Yeah, we haven't been, I haven't gone into the audio stuff yet.

Dr Renee White: That's a good point.

Oceane Campbell: I just keep going with my audio book. Yeah. And then I have a 40 minute cycle to and from work. Mm-hmm. You know, multiple times a week. And so I just, I get through so many books and I absolutely love it.

Oceane Campbell: Yeah. So all the usual online channels, wherever you buy books, if you buy them online, so Booktopia, Dymocks whatever, you know, bookshop you like to go through. Mm-hmm. Um, check your local bookshop. Lots of, um, local bookshops have stocked them. I've, there's a bunch of signed copies throughout Sydney because I went and, and signed a whole bunch. Nice. Um, but also, yeah, all over the place and you can also follow me on the social, so Oceane Campbell writer. Mm-hmm. And there's like a link tree that has links to where you can purchase and to my publishing page through Heidi Grant, where you can also look at all the places that stock them.

Oceane Campbell: Uh, I don't have an audio version out. My first book does. Yep. So you can also get my first book, uh, the Silence Between Us, which was written by myself and my mum, Cécile Barral and this book is not an audio, but I hope that we will get the opportunity to, this is the shout out to the publishers.

But um, till next time, we will see everyone.

Oceane Campbell: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr Renee White: Thanks. If you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well.