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Our Business vs. Bullshit Quickfire Quiz Round is back! And my goodness did we miss it

BWB Extra gets to know this week's guest , Steve O'Hear a little better. Steve's Senior Vice President of Zapp, London’s premium on-demand convenience app, Founder of his very own advisory firm O'Hear & Co and an Angel Investor with Atomico. In a past life, he was also a journalist covering European tech for 10+ years at Techcrunch. So kick back and get to know more about the man who wears many hats, and wears them very well indeed.

Check out Steve O'Hear's show recommendation:

• Adapt or Die: How Netflix Took Down Blockbuster

BWB is powered by Oury Clark

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Bwb Extra, where we get to know this week's guest, Steve O'Hare a little better.

Steve is Senior Vice President of Zap London's Premium on Demand Convenience app, founder of his very own advisory firm, o' Hereon Co, and an angel investor with Atomico in a past life.

He was also a journalist covering European Tech for over 10 years at TechCrunch.

So kick back and get to know more about the man who wears many hats and wears them very well.

Indeed.

Can I ask you, um, a controversial question before we move on?

Well, it's not controversial, but a bit deeper, I guess.

Question is, you raised money and you raised money as someone with a disability, and as as my fellow Kopa, gets very upset about the inequalities between women and men and raising money.

You do.

Did you find that when you raised money?

I mean, I'm.

In my mind, I know 50% of people are women, so the stats are easy, but I actually know how many people have disabilities.

I mean, I'm dyslexic.

That's counting as a minor, you know what I mean?

It's like, and where do you put the graph and what level are we talking about?

But you know, is it, is it a thing that disability, do people with disabilities find it hard to build companies and be taken seriously or whatever?

Yeah.

No, it's a really good question.

Look, see, I'm gonna go backwards in terms, in my, in my career.

Look, I found it hard to get a freaking job.

I was unemployed for a year when I got out of university with a good degree, right?

So I, nevermind raising money for, for a friend about business.

Most mo you know, many, many people with disabilities have Barrs entry into employment, right?

So, so they can't even get off the start, of course.

So, um, but no, when I raised money for the, for the startup I did many, many minutes ago, I don't think disability really came into it because by that point I was already.

Quite a well known John in the ecosystem.

So I think I had an on unfair advantage.

But yeah, can't think of many founders that have raised venture to capital that have a, a physical disability.

That is, that is obvious that I know of.

I think, no, I think when I, when I couldn't get a job, it was a bit of a catch where you are, like, I didn't have any work experience whatsoever.

And I think most people, when they're 21, especially nowadays, Would've maybe like done a Saturday job or had to work during the holidays with the university.

Of course, of course.

Yes.

That's, I write zero track record.

Right.

And that's because when you think about most, most entry level labor is very physical.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

So that was definitely, um, definitely a broader, and then of course there is like the.

Conscious or unconscious bias.

However, I'm, I'm, I think I've always been quite astute to these issues.

So my tactics to get a job was if I was applying to a small company, I would not mention my disability whatsoever.

And then if I was applying to a big company like the bbc, I would fired up my disability.

Wow.

Opportunity.

That's great advice.

That would, that would work very well because the, the bigger companies, they, they, they, they have to, they're quite about quotas and more, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but the small company, you're right, once they meet you, and, but it's like lots of things in life.

It's not just disability, it's lots of things that people, people offer cv.

I've been there when you get 500 cvs and you're like, right, we need 10.

So it's like, so you come up with criteria, you go, okay, well this qualification lives within this distance or whatever.

Do you know what I mean?

So it's, you know.

Yeah.

That's, that's great advice.

Uh, hats off to you because I think anything, we've all gotta be fearless in life is hats on hat fine hats.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Hats.

On.

Good point.

You know, I've got my hat somewhere.

But you've gotta be fearless in life.

You know, you must be fearless.

So that's, that's not something you necessarily have, you know?

Yeah, I mean, throughout like the, probably the first 20 years of my career, I think all I really focused on was stay employed.

Like it sounds funny and people probably look at my resume now and saying, well, that's ridiculous.

I was like, just stay employed.

I think I felt the same for the first 20 years of my career.

Totally get that.

I had the opposite experience being made to work for my father.

I was just like, I need to get fucking fired, but it's not happening.

Damn nepotism.

So you are a founder.

You've just started your, your new business, but you're not just a founder, right.

You are also an angel investor in other businesses.

Yes.

So I'm guessing, you know, given your.

Interesting strategy and your, you know, expertise in comms that you must only ever invest in businesses that are strategically perfect and are going exactly the right way.

Are you the world's best angel investor?

I guess one.

Yeah.

That's what she's trying to go.

That's what she's trying to go, so, so, yeah.

So I'm part of a.

An Angel investment program run by a massive French capital firm called Opt Automato, which is the VC firm that was founded by a guy called Strom who found, who originally found his stripe.

So, so I've done about eight, eight.

Angel Investments last year on as part of the program at Automato.

So it's not my money, it's their money, but um, I go out and fi and find these, that's the best way to invest.

It's gotta be more fun.

Absolutely.

So, um, and, and I've invested in like a range of different companies and they're not, I wouldn't say from a common perspective, they're all perfect.

They're gonna have their own, um, you know, risks and their own challenges.

But yeah, I can't think that they particularly can, yeah.

Particularly controversial from that perspective.

But no, my, my sweet spot for investments is honestly at that super early stages, are they potentially great founders and is the problem, they're solving a real one, and this is crucial.

Is the problem big enough or I has a big enough market Yeah.

To be worthy of venture capital because, you know, your, your your business podcast, there are millions of amazing businesses.

That don't fit the venture capital model, right?

Yeah.

Lifestyle businesses as they, as they like to be regarded.

But you're right, it's too niche, but it it, but they're quite often very important business.

They might make a niche product, you know, they might make a product that, you know, and a small group of people really need.

But it sound, it sounds like you're a very much a kind of a passive investor.

You don't get involved in the businesses that you invest in particularly, or do you?

So I've got hands on day to day, but clearly my.

My edge, I guess as they would call it, is, you know, I have a great network having been a journalist in in the ecosystem many years, I actually did my own start in between all that and Raise went to capital myself one point.

So I've been on a bit of a founder journey and now of course to probably for the first time on this podcast, I've got my own new venture too.

So I think there's a certain amount where we can.

You know, trade kind of experience.

And I can hopefully help some of these founders not make some of the most obvious mistakes or mistakes that I've seen other companies do as a journalist or mistakes that I've, I've seen even more upfront.

But obviously they also do use me for a sounding board about PR and problems as well.

Obviously, that's one of my, one of my, one of my kind of core skills.

So, yeah, I think I, I definitely, they, they like to get me on their cap table.

Could they think I'll be useful a bit early days?

Let's see if I actually am, but yeah, but you are, you know that it is nice to have a few names that people recognize on your cap table.

It certainly greases the wheels.

Steve, what's your long-term goal?

What's the long-term goal for the new business?

It's a really, really good question.

I think definitely wanna state it and grow it.

So we're a four person team.

Got a handful of clients.

I think I wanna dig, you know, maybe double that.

In 18 months, um, and keep going, but long term sort of personal career goal.

Look, I, I, I just wanna stay interested, so I'm, I'm always doing different things and I try, as you say, various hats.

And for me it's about, um, kind of content like career contentment, which is about like staying interested, curious, learning new things, challenging myself.

And also I, I think as you get older in your career, there's so much, um, satisfaction from bringing other people on.

And seeing, like turning around you develop.

So I've really, really enjoyed it Zap having teams that report directly into me or alongside me and just seeing people at the beginning or the middle of their careers.

Oh, it's so nice seeing people develop and if you, and when they, when they develop well and they fly and you just reallys like, oh, I remember like you were so shy or whatever, you know?

No, it's fantastic.

It's amazing.

I think that as you get older, like that is, Probably the most satisfying thing is building something around you that allows other people, it sounds really cheesy, isn't it, but allows other people to flourish.

Yeah.

I think your parents may be English teachers and you might be a journalist.

You know?

That's what I'm thinking with these, uh, catchy sort of, you know, clear statements, what do you think is the most misunderstood then thing about your job that you're a PR company, I guess?

No, I think it's that, like, you know, that if comms is just about pr, it's not pr, it's just one area.

Of comms and there's so much more to it.

And yeah, that's definitely, that'll be it.

That a hundred percent be it.

And also I've made it bad for myself cuz I used to s slack off PR people as a journalist, like over and over and over and over.

And the reason why I said maybe we should keep this under the radar is like, I'm gonna get so much Dick on Twitter over this.

Can't call it like executive PR or no PR Ultra.

We we're, you know, like, you, you need, you need a good brand tile for this.

I'm not sure about this.

Comms.

Comms just amuses me that it's like, it's like, you know, shortened weird word of the actual beautiful communication.

You know, it's converse, uh, so it amuses me, but I know exactly what it means when you say it, I guess.

What do you think your biggest problem's gonna be in the next couple of years for your business?

So I don't think like strategic communications or comms, it, it's not a sustainable business in the sense of like a piece of software, right?

So in order to scale, we need to hire great people and embed our way of doing comms and our, and our approach and our thinking into every new hire.

And so I think it's gonna be a challenge to stay on, keep the product.

And our unique offering, like consistent as we grow bigger and bigger.

And also I suppose hiring generally.

I mean, people say all the time at the moment that that finding the right people is hard.

I would imagine you need very specific people, journalists.

Yeah.

Another comments forum gave me some advice this week.

They said, and they grew from a handful to 30 people and they said, actually what you wanna do is hire great junior people.

Because it's much easier to teach people how you think it should be done versus trying to un get them to unlearn different or bad ways of doing it.

And obviously it's still always be a trade off.

But I think that's a great piece of advice because they said in it is, I think in particular a price of service industry.

If you get people around you learning your approach or your particular way of doing things, then you can promote them.

There's always, you know, there's always.

Dating drugs on another level, another top levels, and then potentially stay with the firm for many, many years versus kind of other types of industries where you need to sort of hop around.

Out of all the things you've done, where, where do you think you've gone wrong the most in your career?

I think I've always been the sort of person where when I get to a certain stage of the, of the career, I've then gone, oh, actually I wanna go to another level.

Right?

But I've always waited.

To ditch that level before thinking about the next one.

And I think that comes from kind of breaking glass ceilings, probably partly is a disabled person where you think, oh my God, I never thought I'd did here.

And actually, if I could go back in time, I wouldn't change a lot.

Right?

I've loved it so far and I've paid it my way, but probably speed it up a little bit, like knowing that I can get there, if that makes sense.

Rather than having that mentality of I've already achieved more than I thought I would, or it's not really what I thought.

When you're disabled, you get set very low expectations around you.

Actually, that's something people don't really talk about.

Well, as you, as you grow up, people are, people are always sort of what in the medical or educational industries are trying to set your expectations low.

So when you have a disability is quote unquote severe as mine, most institutions you interface with, they don't even expect you to work.

Wow.

Right.

They'll, they'll jump out their seat when you tell 'em you work.

Right?

So you are surrounded by low expectations in sort of wider society.

I was really lucky my dad had.

Mad ambition for me.

I was about to say, I, you often it comes down to the parents, you know, in terms of, you know, you've got that feeling of ness and that like, you know, and you would've thought with Zoom has been, you know, the, the, the, the Covid is a, you know, hell of a thing that happened to us.

It, it should be a boon right now for leveling up.

Really shouldn't it to some extent.

Like Chap Gideon we've had on the podcast, he's deaf.

I mean, he, he was like, look, zoom was great for me.

I could have the transcription.

You know?

So you would think now more than ever is possible.

Yeah.

I mean my, my pandemic story is they helped me to suddenly have the confidence to apply for more jobs and potentially journalism because everyone had gone remote.

So that awkward conversation of mm-hmm I only need to work from home for a lot of the time, sort of didn't then, then wasn't so awkward.

Right?

Yeah.

But actually people were returning back to the office and there's lots of operators and business leaders saying, needs to be the office again.

I did it.

I get the advantages of in person collaboration, but, so I don't think they're leveling up if there was one has is really right here to stay, which is kind of sad, but I think, yeah, to, to answer the question.

If I could do any of it again, I would just do it faster.

I think part of that is that it gets, you get better at it, but it's quite hard to listen to your gut.

And your gut takes time to develop and it's your gut that would tell you, right, I'm done with this.

I'm moving on.

And as we get older, we get much better at getting that feeling.

And you, you can almost do it instantly.

Sometimes you're like, I'm done with this.

I'm done with that person, or I'm changing this.

So I think the, the moving faster was if only I could listen and develop my gut faster, but.

Yeah, I, I guess I'm saying it's inevitable, but you know.

Good answer, nonetheless.

Anyway.

What's your passion outside of business?

Yeah, no, I think we passionate music.

Massive music, geek otis max.com.

Oh, music's the bomb man.

It's, it's, it's, it's the Mac daddy.

You know, it's, uh, I, when I, you started meet people who, who don't do music, and that's why I asked the question like, what's your vice?

And, oh, is it because I need to?

Then I, I'm like, I'm not, I'm low.

Whoa.

You just like remove the ground from under my feet of existence.

And then I'm like, okay, okay, gay, you are into sport.

Like you are really into sport.

You know, it's like, you know, what's your, you're religious, you're really religious.

But yeah, my, um, my nieces made me do that thing, you know, at the end of last year, Spotify did that your year in Roundup.

Oh yeah.

Thing.

Yeah.

That's good though.

And I'd lit, like they did it on my Spotify and I'd listen to like, Was something terrible, like 72 minutes of music in the entire year.

Wow.

Oh my God.

Wow.

Cause I just listen to podcasts.

I don't listen to music.

So I like, you know, I, I couldn't share my, um, Spotify thing because, uh, probably half it with my own tracks.

So that was embarrassing.

No's.

Embarrassing.

I mean, it's, um, you know, music to me make it, I have this problem that uh, a lot of people I know stopped ma playing music cuz they didn't make it.

And so I, I find that really weird because it's like yeah, but you run Yeah.

And used to run at school, but just cuz you're not, um, Usain Bolt.

You still run around the park.

You don't go, oh, well I'm, you know, I'm really slow.

So, so here's this thing that's incredible therapy that you were pretty good at, actually.

You got it to a high proficiency.

You know, you, you spent more time on it and you're running and, and yet you give it up because you didn't become famous.

Or people didn't care.

And people didn't listen to it.

Listening to yourself is very therapeutic too, you know, memories and, but I think that was actually, that was me and the band members.

We didn't make it.

We, we stopped.

All of us almost.

Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

Is it like a depression?

Yeah, I think it's, cuz there's an emotional attachment to like the dream and the kind of, you wanna do something like that, like maybe full time and also the friendships, right?

So when a band breaks up, you know, you bond.

With, you know, with your band members.

Yeah, yeah.

It's deep.

And also all our band did it, uh, as we worked out one day we were like, didn't we partly do this to all get sex?

And we were like, yeah.

And then we were like, right, it's 10 years in, there's eight of us.

Has anyone had sex as a result of this brand?

And was the no.

And then we were like, hang on, hang on, Ben.

There was that groupie at that part.

At that gig we did.

She wouldn't leave you alone.

What happened?

Nothing.

Nothing happened.

Oh, for fuck sake.

It was fucking disappointing.

It really was.

And you thought, why are we exactly, to your point, why are we doing this?

Start, I think.

I think I've got a drug addiction or something, you know?

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Now back to the chat.

What's the best advice you've ever been given?

The best advice I was ever given was when I was still figuring out how to get into journalism.

Having not done a journalism degree, I, I managed to do a tiny bit of freelance dates and an editor at Magazine.

Said to me, he said, Steve, if you wanna become a journalist, start calling yourself one.

And then he paused and he said, besides, there are way worse writers than you making a living yard journalist.

That's great advice.

Uh, what's, what, what advice would you give to your younger self?

Speed up or, yeah, just speed up.

Speed up.

And don't let.

Other people's expectations or let it on your own.

Um, create any more dark ceilings.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

It's bit like if you want to dance, imagine no one's watching.

This is the only secret to dancing I'm aware of.

You know, you've got to be able to like somehow build a force field around you to work out who, what you wanna do.

You know, what you gonna do?

Fuck everyone else.

You know?

Uh, and you, you have this thing, you shouldn't be selfish and we're part of a community, but there are some ways that you have to really like, like block it all out, you know?

Uh, uh, uh, because it's, you know, and it's so hard to do.

Recommendations.

Any, any recommendations on the reading?

Watching, listening, we've had your music.

Any, anything else, uh, you'd recommend people check out?

I'm gonna say, If, if anyone hasn't seen a documentary on Netflix as in a documentary about Netflix, And how it had to on Netflix.

Blockbuster.

It's on Netflix.

No, I think, I think it might have be on Amazon Prime.

I'm not sure.

But there was a D, everyone always says, what's the title?

And I honestly can't remember, but there was an amazing documentary I how Netflix disrupted Blockbuster.

Oh see And I, and there was a moment in history, wasn't there when it was like, it was the same as the Yellow Pages and someone that Blockbuster don't have billion bows.

And they were like this tiny thing and they.

Like they offered.

I can't, they offered to buy one of those like hilarious things.

Two years later.

It's like, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's a great, it's a great, great story on kind of how an upstart disrupts an incumbent, but what's great about it is it's very messy, right?

It's not like simplifying the story.

Is it, is it called Adapt or Die?

Maybe?

I think it is.

Yeah, I think it might be.

Yeah.

How Netflix took down Blockbuster.

Yeah.

Adapt or Die.

Adapt or Die.

Write that down, Steve.

Sounds like you need to remember that one.

Yeah, I mean, we, we kind of skipped this obviously in a show, but I think it, I think it's an important question we've all gotta face.

Uh, what's your business doing about climate change?

I mean, I know you won't have to do much, you'll work from home, but is that something you think about at all or.

No, it's, I mean at, so at Zap, the, the sustainability team reported on into me, so it's actually an air and I, I know quite a lot about, and, and it's quite, you know, it's quite an iron, overwhelming Zap obviously have a very complicated thing to, to unravel for climate change.

Yeah, yeah.

No, absolutely.

When you're in the intersection of retail and delivery, It's massive.

And actually when you dig into sort of right food retailers, food waste is huge.

It's a huge problem.

Oh my God.

The amount of food that that supermarkets throw away.

Um, and criminal.

Yeah.

And yeah, and exactly.

Work with some charities to redistribute unsold food.

But it's still edible before it should go into, into waste, right?

So that's, that's something that's super important for any retailer in the, in the food space.

But yeah, in my, um, strategic comms firm, I don't think it's such a big issue.

We're, we're a remote first company so far, less travel.

Um, and yeah.

So, uh, so it's not something we need to worry about too much.

Okay, let's do it.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

This brings us to our absolute favorite part of the show, other than obviously all the brilliant things you said, the business versus bullshit.

Quick, far, round D, the music.

This is where we're gonna reel off a list of key terms, and you have to tell us whether you think it is business or it is bullshit.

You're only in the fence about them.

You can say this shit.

Occasionally you get one bit, maybe two bits if you're really, really lucky.

Okay, we're off.

Um, hot desking business, flexible working business going viral.

That sounds deeply horrid.

I mean, It's, yeah, it's really hard to do.

You can't do it.

You can't decide to do, it either happens or it doesn't.

So I think ass a business concept.

Yeah.

It's bullshit.

Yeah.

Uh, breakfast meetings, bullshit.

I've never, they're awful idea.

No breakfast talking her client or say I'm trying to eat my.

And you're dripping your egg down front.

I'm asleep.

I haven't had my coffee yet.

You know, I'm still wearing my dressing gown as motherfuckers want breakfast anyway, think tanks.

Bullshit.

Ding.

You stayed very well scoring.

Very, very high score we've had on these ones.

MBAs.

Ah, that's, that's mean.

That's mean.

It is though, isn't it?

Depends what de depends what you do with the nba.

Yeah.

Okay.

Don't tell anyone about it.

We're gonna start, you know, um, I think it's sounding very much like this shit.

Yeah.

This shit.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, team outings.

Oh my God, that's a hard one.

Yeah.

I wanna say personally, Bullshit.

Yeah.

Okay.

But actually, I'm told by my team that they really value afternoon days out.

She and I can see the baby.

They really value getting drunk and shagging each other when they're young.

That's what happens.

They're, they're mating.

I mean, you look at it, you, you step back and you go, it's, um, you know, they're, uh, peacocking and courting and looking for their mate.

You know what, what's that called?

Um, my, my, my team went to, my team, went to a museum.

They went to the museum.

Best place Microdosing Bullshit.

Oh, it's controversial, but it's controversial.

The actual thing, asking favors a business concept.

Well, someone rings you up, says, Annie, Annie, do me a favor.

You know, can you do me a favor in business?

You know?

Do you think that's.

Professional.

I mean, you know, say this person's not your best friend.

I mean your best friend, you'd pretty much lie to the police.

I mean, I think you, I think you have to know your leverage, right?

I've definitely call in favors and I've definitely done people favors in business.

It's a very human thing to do, but know your leverage.

No, your leverage, which means no, no, you, you can pay them back.

You've got something they want and they've got something you want kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can help.

Well, I think that's spot, cuz I remember when this came up in the podcast, it was the whole like ringing someone up and asking you to make some intro, you know, introduce a big deal to you.

You know, exactly as you say, when you don't know 'em well enough or you're like, that's a big thing to ask me.

So knowing your leverage is the kind of same thing as understand how big a thing that might be to ask.

Someone you know, and then you've got, and just that whole thing of, you know, like again, people ringing, saying, you know, if I rang you and went, hi Steve, can I just ask you a quick question?

I'm doing this thing and I'm not sure whether it's a good idea from a comm's point of view.

Do you think I should do it or not?

And you are in your head thinking, hang on a minute, that's my fucking job came me to tell you the answer.

Yeah.

Well maybe that's just me when people ring me up and say, can I ask you?

No, no, no.

I think that, no, I think that's too, but actually the worst ones, when you get people messing you and saying, I'd love to grab a half an hour coffee with you when actually that's really difficult to do.

Yeah.

For time reasons.

If they said, Hey, quick dressing, should I do X or Y?

It might take me half a second to probably give them like amazing advice if it's like a straight, you know, decision.

So it's actually also about knowing what people are able to give you.

Do you want be really s Yeah.

I do hate the people who fitted there always ask you for the coffee and it's almost like, I'll buy you a coffee.

It's like, fuck off, buy my own coffee.

Thanks.

I've got coffee in the kitchen.

Or like you, oh, why not buy lunch?

I've had that.

And then you get a shit lunch and you're just like, I remember this guy came to SL this.

Only if it's no boots.

He took me to lunch in this.

Place is slur.

I still remember he ordered a whole chicken.

I was like, I want a fucking whole chicken.

Oh my God.

Anyway, sorry.

Universal income.

I wouldn't say wash your business, but I don't know.

I don't know.

Probably bought it.

Super complicated, it turns out.

Is a conversation.

Yeah.

Way complicated.

Way complicated.

Um, working hours, I assume this is something fixed working hours.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, Your bullshit NFTs.

The thing is, I know it's much, there's a lot of bullshit in NFTs.

However, I have come across the top of businesses.

That have made a real use case out of NFTs.

Okay.

He's Mason money and he's legit.

So I wouldn't write it off entirely, but Yeah, definitely.

But you mostly write it off for a lot of use cases.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bitcoin, it's ugly, older brother.

Well, my, my big Bitcoin is down significantly.

I don't wanna say bullshit.

Yeah, okay.

Fair enough.

Yeah.

You'd, you, you'd spent it, you'd already got the yacht, had you, and you had to shrink, shrink things down to a small bungalow in Wales.

Last but not least, business plans.

Business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Need a plan.

Yeah.

I mean, I would've said probably bullshit until I had to make one and when I made one.

Super, super useful.

If you have it the right way, I wouldn't spend like, you can't, like you can't plan for every scenario.

So I think what you invest in your business plan timewise.

Probably should be relative to, to compress you with the business you're in.

The, uh, that that line, um, uh, Mr.

Wolf said it, um, some famous America politician plan beats no plan, which is like, you know, have some plan.

Any plan.

Um, that's it.

That's it.

We've done it.

I mean, we would ask you Brexit.

But, um, Brexit, is that genuine?

Yeah, let's do it.

Brexit is fucking bullshit.

That is awful.

Yeah.

Damn.

Damn.

Straight.

Damn, straight.

There we go.

I'm glad we cleared that up for the entire of the British, they hadn't worked it out already.

So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra, and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday.