Ep 11. Interview with professional nanny and children’s sleep consultant Cheryl Higgins.

Episode 11 • 26th February 2025 • Not Pasta Again • Sam Parker

Sam (: 00:16

Hey everyone, I hope you're well. It is Sam from NotPasta again, and it's been a couple of weeks which have included half term. So I really hope that you survived your half term and that in actuality you also enjoyed it. Did you take me up on my suggestion? Did you get your kids involved with any of the cooking that you were doing in the kitchen? Be it a meal or be it some baking? I would love to know how it went, what you made, and if everyone...

ate it and enjoyed it. So let me know, tell me if you did absolutely enjoy it or if it's put you off forever. I think if you listened to the last episode, you will know that for me, I have to psych myself up when it comes to getting my kids into the kitchen. I am a control freak and it just gives me the fear to hand over what is my space to allow them to create something as well. However,

it is absolutely one of the most rewarding things that you can do. They're being creative, they're being productive, they're doing something different to what they would normally do. And in most cases, it is always a success in terms of the fact that they will eat what we have made in the kitchen together. So my dream is to encourage my eldest son in particular to make something on his own once a week for us. So I'm working on that and I will give you feedback in time as to how that is going.

I just want to say thank you so much for all of the messages that I'm continually receiving. It is so lovely to know that what we're talking about resonates with so many of you. And I actually got a really lovely voice note from Sam and she's got a great recipe to share. Hi Sam, I'm loving the pod. Disclaimer, I am your friend and I am also a Thermomix enthusiast having owned one for 11 years. Still discovering amazing recipes all the time.

And as a busy mom of two and a business owner, I completely understand how that works and how we have to fit it all in and the mom girl involved in trying to get them to eat healthy stuff. And as a business owner, I'm really busy as well. So I wanted to share a recipe that I discovered only yesterday. So even after all these years of owning a thermomix, I'm still discovering fantastic recipes every single week.

And last night it was a beef ragu. This is a really brilliant recipe to try. I did the one from the Australian cookie do. Loads of veg in there. It's absolutely packed with your usual carrots, celery, onions, garlic, but it is really very, very simple prep. You just chuck it all in, throw it on to cook while you're doing other things. And it's really, really versatile.

So we had it with mash last night and steamed veg, but tonight I will be doing it with pasta for the kids. I'll probably, if I'm feeling virtuous enough, I'll have mine with courgette. So yeah, you could even do the roast potatoes. So it's kind of the gift that keeps on giving. It makes a huge bowl of it. So I would probably say about eight portions in there.

Really cost effective. I probably only use three quarters of the beef that it's suggested in the recipe, but yeah, delicious. Real winter warmer, cost effective, packed with veg, minimal prep. Go for it. It's absolutely delish. So Sam, thank you for that recipe. It's a really good one. I absolutely love that you spiralize the vegetables a little bit of a different way and a quirky way to put some vegetables onto the table.

and to encourage the children to eat them as well. So if any of you have got any fabulous recipes that have worked for you that you want to share, then please do again, share them with me. Okay, so moving on to today's episode, I am really excited to have my good friend Cheryl with me. She has lots of strings to her bow in that she is a professional nanny, a baby and children's sleep consultant, a parenting guru, and a reflux and colic specialist.

So I really do think she's well-placed to talk about the challenges that we might face when it comes to feeding our children and also involving them in the kitchen. And I'm really hopeful, and I'm sure she will, but that she will offer some insight on how we can overcome this. So Cheryl, hello, welcome. Good morning. How are you? Lovely to see you. I'm good, thank you. Yes, not too bad at all. Hopefully I can offer some pearls of wisdom.

Yes, I'm sure you can. So I think the first part that I want to start at is just generally thinking about children, food and their behaviour. So given what you do, what impact does all of that have on each other? OK, so I think there's definitely a correlation between children's behaviour and what they've eaten. We probably have all heard of that expression hangry.

And that's definitely a thing, especially in younger children, but in older children and even adults as well. I know I can be like that if I haven't eaten in my sugar levels up and down or whatever. And I think it definitely impacts children and obviously children are less able to control those emotions. So we can see some big behavior as a result of them just being hungry basically.

But then that's also influenced by what they've eaten as well. So if they've had a lot of sugary foods and things like that, you're going to see those crashes. You're probably going to see a lot more negative behavior. So it all kind of goes hand in hand with that.

So when you talk about those, like hangry, I always used to reference it with my ex-husband, quite frankly, because I would always say, you're hangry. But it is true, you can identify that in children as well. So in terms of some of the foods, obviously you've referenced sugary as a sort of a category. What other sort of behavioral changes can you see, whether they're good or bad, depending on what you give them? So obviously a lower refined sugar diet.

Definitely and more more sort of creates a more consistent behavior if you like so you see less ups and downs Just that that general level of their mood tends to be more consistent That's kind of what I what I would say sort of regarding that really just thinking about a balanced diet less refined sugar Less fast absorbing carbs that kind of thing is always there or should I say more slow more slow release carbs? That's kind of the way you want to go on that Cheryl

I'm just going to jump in. When you say that, can you clarify what you mean slow release carbs? okay. So things like oats, brown rice, sweet potato, those kinds of things are better than perhaps things like white potatoes, white rice, et cetera. Not that there's anything wrong with those foods, but sometimes you can just see more of it. If you've got a child that is prone to those kind of dips in blood sugar and those kind of hangry levels, then thinking about those slow release carbs can be a good thing.

Yeah, so let's imagine that we're in a world where people don't really know what the hangry response would be in a child. Can you give some examples of what a child might do when they are in that state? Absolutely. And that's actually a really good point because certainly as a new parent, know, your toddler could be having massive meltdowns and that could definitely be part of the reason. But you might not know that. You might just think, they're two, you know, this is a terrible twos or whatever.

So with younger children, sort of toddler age, know, or older babies upwards, you'd be looking at outbursts for sort of no apparent reason really. So crying, screaming, possibly hitting, just negative kind of behaviour. Those are kind of extreme obviously. Generally kind of things will start off smaller and escalate to that sort of bigger tantrum level really. And then as children get older, they might just become a bit whiny.

needy, those kind of emotions might be what you see. Okay, so in a sense, what would you advise parents to do to prevent the hangry scenario, if that's one of the biggest issues? it depends on the age of the child again, because know, age children require different levels of, or how often they should eat basically and things like that.

Really a child under 18 months doesn't need snacks. So three good meals a day is all that they need. To be honest, none of us need snacks, but we live in a society, don't we, where snacks are a thing. But certainly before 18 months, just three really good balanced meals a day is definitely the way forward. Can you give an example? Three good meals quickly. What would you say? Yeah, so porridge with some berries or something like that. Breakfast would be a great way to start the day.

either with cow's milk or an alternative milk depending on preference. Lunch could be something like a jacket sweet potato with some cheese and some baked beans or something like that. That's just an easy kind of option that you could offer. And then dinner, something like salmon, brown rice and some green vegetables. That would just be a sort of a off the top of my head kind of, yeah, absolutely bog standard day that would be easy to kind of do. Yeah. Okay. So that's your under 18 months and

What would you say for other age groups? Okay, so as you're going up, snacks generally are introduced and that's obviously absolutely fine. I love a snack. I'm not going to say don't have a snack. I try not to snack, but in reality, you know, it depends, doesn't it, on how you're doing. So just briefly going back to younger babies or younger children under 18 months. If for some reason you're not sticking to their normal meal time schedule, then obviously there is a time and a place for a snack.

So I think that is important to say. not saying don't ever give your child under 18 months a snack. It's just that generally it's best to those three meals. Past 18 months often children will like a snack in the middle of the morning and sometimes in the middle of the afternoon. And again, it's just thinking about what... So the meals themselves would stay fairly similar. There's absolutely no reason why any of us couldn't eat those three meals in a day. But it's just thinking about what you're going to offer for those snacks really that's the important thing. And obviously the easy option is something from a packet.

you know, from the supermarket, isn't it? Because people are working, they're busy and so on and so forth. But there are much better choices because those kind of snacks are generally really high in sugar, full of additives and so on and so forth that are all going to add to what we've just been talking about with behaviour, lapses in concentration at school and so on and so forth. Okay, so you said something really interesting and I just want you to clarify it. I think it was a normal meal time.

schedule or something like that. yes. What do you mean? Okay so that's very personal really to each and every family and varies from culture to culture but even from household to household but obviously I have a you know I've been working with babies and children for a long long time so I kind of have a way that I would do things but there's always obviously some flexibility within that to suit individual families so breakfast would usually be within an hour of waking up.

for a younger child this is because they would often have some milk first when they first wake up, breakfast within an hour. So maybe between 7.30 and 8 a.m. for breakfast for a younger child. Lunch would usually be around midday, give or take slightly. And then they might have some milk mid afternoon, which is why they then wouldn't obviously need a snack. And then they would have their dinner somewhere between 4 and 5 p.m. usually with more milk before bed. So that would be for a younger child under 18 months.

Obviously then as they get a little older, those windows can become a bit longer. A, because there's often snaps in between and B, because they are a little bit older and able to wait a little bit longer for their meals. But to be honest, for most children, that's probably younger children under maybe, I don't know, primary school age, that's probably fairly similar. Dinner might just get a little bit later if you decide to make it more of a family event. I think it's really interesting though, because we talk about consistency and routine in so many ways in our lives as adults.

and we can kind of forget that it will have an impact on our kids if we change it. establishing that kind of like dinner time is 5.30, they're kind of expecting it, their bodies are expecting it. Absolutely, the same as us, you know yourself, don't you? However much, I mean, I am a creature of habit and I do like routine. Children actually respond really, really well to routine. So even if we, some of us as adults don't particularly like routine and structure.

For children, it creates security, stability. They like knowing what's coming next. It makes them feel happy. It makes them feel good. And that obviously goes with mealtimes as well. And at the end of the day, do, whether we like routine or not, all of us have quite a lot of routine in our lives, don't we? We all get up in the morning and brush our teeth. Generally, we have breakfast, we have lunch, know, blah, blah, and so on and so forth. I think, yeah, routine is, routine with children, in my opinion, is...

is key for those reasons that I've just said. Okay and I think one of the things I want to ask you and I don't know if this is something that you do experience but because you nanny you obviously go into people's homes and see their eating regime and then you're in your own space with maybe the same children and you do your own regime so

The comparison, what are some of the things you see that you go, oh, maybe that could be different. Do you know what I mean? How's it different what you do versus a parent? So I think, obviously for me, going in as a nanny is very different to your child going to a child mind or a nursery or so on where your child needs to conform to generally what's going on in that environment. So part of my job is going in, observing or speaking to the parents about how they do things as a family.

and fitting in with that. That said, of course, I will do things slightly differently to how a family will do something. And I think one of the things that nearly all parents say to me that I work with is that the children always eat loads more for me or different things for me than they do for their parents. Why is that? example. It's true. It's so true. And it's the same with behavior and everything in general.

A, I've been doing what I do for a long time. You for about 30 years I've been doing this job. So I am, I would like to probably class myself as an expert in looking after children. You know, I've done lots of training and I've, you know, practically been working with children for so long that I do know what I'm doing. So I think there is an element of that. Whereas when you're a parent, it's a new job, isn't it? You you've not done it before. So I think.

There's definitely, you you're learning on the job. That's what I'm trying to say. So I think there's definitely an element of that. Whereas I've seen all these things so many times before that I can preempt what's going to happen quite often. So I think I'm able to probably navigate those situations a bit better. Can you give us? as well. Cheryl. Can I give you an example? Yeah. Yeah. OK. If your child has eaten something a week or two weeks ago, absolutely fine. Or they've been eating it for ages even maybe. And then suddenly.

I don't like this or just refusing to eat it all over. Often you can tell because the plate sits in front of them and not a lot's happening, whereas previously they may have tucked in heartily. The first thing I would do is if they were younger child, I'd help them by loading up their spoon and fork. So sometimes they just need a bit of encouragement. They might be feeling a bit tired. So there might be other factors involved. They usually are. Tiredness is often a thing. Could even be hangry.

So a little bit of assistance can go a long way. Something else I like to do is use distraction. So talking about things, put some music on in the background, ask them what they would like, what music they would like, what should we chat about. So kind of just distracting them from the food whilst kind of gently encouraging them to get on with it. So not making it into a big deal, but kind of doing it that sort of way. Go on.

Pretty much what's standing out for me as I listen to you is as a parent, I think we have emotion involved. That was going to be my next thing. Okay, so yeah, that's a big, that's a big part of it. So I was literally going to go on and say that because obviously I'm a parent as well. So I've got, you know, both, both things to go off. As a parent, you are emotionally involved, invested with these children and you know, it's a real thing. As a mum, there are these invisible things called heartstrings.

and they get pulled a lot by your children. It makes it very difficult to be as, to hold as firm a boundary as when you're looking after somebody else's children. However, I think because I knew this as a parent, because I had already worked as a nanny for quite a long time and worked with children and things for quite a long time, I knew, even though my heart was saying one thing, I was able to usually stay that bit sort of firmer.

in my boundaries because I knew the consequences. And children, you know, they know what's going on. They're not silly. And if they see a little way through, they will play on that every time after that's happened once, then that will become the new president and they will continue to kind of see the chink in your armour.

try and get away with it. You know, we're talking here that the parents emotionally invested, you're one step removed. You've talked about distraction. You've talked about putting food on a fork or a spoon for a younger child. What else can we do to dial down the emotion and make them eat their food? So a good way to start is I would say at dinner time in the evening,

serve something or some things on their plate that you know they are going to eat. This is when you're starting trying to kind of change those boundaries and perhaps the reactions that you've been having from your child towards food. So making sure there's some things at dinner time in the evening on their plates that they're going to eat because you're putting your child to bed for the night fairly soon after dinner and

we're all worried about them being hungry overnight, aren't we? So you don't want them to be hungry overnight. So I always say at dinnertime, putting some things on their plate that you know they're going to eat, accompanied by some things that you are not so sure that they're going to try, is a good place to start. This is when you're trying to change the boundaries around food and so on. So then maybe at lunchtime and at breakfast time, possibly if you want to.

I'd suggest trying more foods that are a little bit more adventurous for them that you're not sure how they're going to respond because then you know you've still got dinner time to get in that good meal. So we have got, again, just as strategies, put something on their plate that you know they're going to eat, distract them, load things. One of the things I found really helped my youngest was to get them involved with the choice of what was going to be eaten. What do you think about that kind of thing?

Yeah, I'm absolutely all for that. think getting children involved in the kitchen, often if they've been involved in the making of something, they immediately want to try it because they've been involved in the making. yeah, I'm all for that. From a really young age, I love involving children in cooking. So that's definitely a big positive because I think they are way more inclined to try something if they've been involved in cooking. Yeah.

And the other thing I did with him was I tried to take the focus away from the food by relating it to something else. So a map and going to a country and do you know what I mean? Great idea. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, that's a really nice idea as well. And that almost goes in line with not distraction, but it's along those lines, you know, so you're not making it all about the food because it can very quickly become an issue.

And I think for children, especially younger children, they don't have a lot of control over things in their life as young children. And I think the things that they can control quite easily are food and sleep. So therefore, it's an easy thing for them to latch onto to try and control. So if we can take away, like you say, the stress or the focus of food, if that is the issue, then that's definitely a great idea for sure. Perfect.

The other thing I going to say is that if you putting foods on children's plates, if you know they're probably not going to eat them, it's still giving them exposure to those foods. It's desensitizing. So they're getting used to having those foods on their plate. They're tolerating them being there. They might touch them. They might lick them eventually, you know, and they're looking at them. So there is a lot to be said for that as well, even if they don't eat them. And it's quite frustrating just having them there.

And something else I also do with children who are sort of fussy eaters or having difficulties with food and stuff like that is I offer them a no thank you bowl. So putting a little bowl by their plate and rather than them having a tantrum or flipping their plate when they're little and things like that because they don't want those foods on their plate or touching the foods that they do like perhaps, they can put them in the no thank you bowl. That way we're still giving them the exposure to the food.

and the desensitizing that's starting to happen without there being any kind of big, hopefully big emotions. I love the no thank you balls. know it's nice, isn't it? Yeah, because, what it's saying to me is that I wish I'd known you when my children were younger. Because the other thing- I hear that a lot. Because the other thing you do when you're a parent and a child refuses to eat carrot three times on the chart, you're just like, I'll forget carrot. And you don't-

you take it away from them ever trying it again because I didn't think to keep showing it. exactly. as I've just said, it's all about exposing them to these foods. So not forcing them to eat them, but by exposing them to them, you're helping to desensitize to them and eventually they probably will try them. So it can take children quite a lot of tries of something, quite a lot.

You know, quite a lot of times they're trying something to decide that they do actually like it. You know? Quite a lot. Quite a lot. I'm going to be pinpoint, make you pinpoint. That's quite vague. It is quite vague. you know, 20 times, 15 times possibly, you know, I don't think there's a set number, but I'm certainly not talking about two or three times. You know, it's something could be something completely new to them. And I think, I think as parents, we can be guilty of, can't, I can't deal with that situation again. So I'm just going to remove it.

Absolutely, because we're all busy, we're tired, you know, all those things that we feel as parents. And when, you know, you're parenting, it's 24-7. That's the other thing about being a nanny and being a parent. When you're a parent, it's 24-7. And, you know, none of us are perfect, so boundaries do go out the window sometimes. And even though you're like, I'm going to leave those carrots there and they are going to have them on their plate, you know, it's very easy to just think, it just be easier not to put them on there tonight.

Cheryl, guess what I'd also like to ask you is understand a little bit more how we can get the older children to start having a better interest in food, because I hear you saying introduce new foods at lunchtime and breakfast, but they're at school, so we can't do that. So how do we go about, some of us who've got teenagers or, you know, 10 plus, let's say, just to give it a bit of an age bracket, how are we going to get them better involved, better interested? We are going to involve them. OK.

We're going to involve them. We're going to give them an opinion if you like. It's okay for anybody, but teenagers, children, whatever, not to like everything. That's okay. We don't expect them to like everything. But what we're asking is that they try new things. So it's having that conversation with your child, you know, about trying things and also educating them, obviously, on the benefits of a balanced, varied diet.

how eating different kind of vegetables and fruits can benefit them and the reasons that you know that that could be you can get them to research it maybe in a fun way. Yeah so just basically involving them in what they would like to eat, what they'd like to be offered, asking them to meet you halfway to compromise because life's all about compromises. yep okay Monday night we're going to have I don't know what it might be.

because I know you love that and you've asked for that. But with it, I'd like to put some broccoli, carrot, salad, whatever it might be, and I'd like you to try it. Is that a deal? So kind of trying to strike a deal. That's the kind of way that I would go with that age group. But you can still very much do the... So you're still very much doing the exposure thing, basically. You're not forcing them to eat things that they don't like, but you're encouraging them.

to be part of that meal and to tolerate having those things on their plate. Okay, I like that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so then what would you say to us as parents? What shouldn't we be doing? You shouldn't be going on and on and on about eating their food and you know, like the things that we all do probably. If you don't eat that, you're not having any of whatever it might be that's for putting or in the cupboard that they might want later or you know, those kinds of things. We shouldn't be doing that.

And we should be taking that focus away from the food and making it about the social time of the meal rather than the food in question. We shouldn't be getting stressed. We shouldn't be getting annoyed. I know. Much easier said than done when you've slaved over a lovely meal. But those are the things that we have to try and avoid. Okay. Okay. It's hard. It's really hard. Hard in the moment. hard. Yeah. Really, really hard in the moment. And I think...

it's something that you, so therefore as a parent, that's something that you have to practice yourself. But don't be afraid to hold your boundary as well, that's the other thing. So it's interesting, you said, you know, and we've all been guilt, well, I've been guilty of it, I can't say we've I'm sure most parents. You you can't have pudding unless, you know, so. Yeah, so with younger children, I quite often, much younger children, you know, when babies first start having foods, I put it all on a plate together.

You know those little plates you can get with the sections? So I'll put the yoghurt in one section, some strawberries, then there might be some cucumber, there might be some, I don't know, bolognese or you know, and some pasta or something, all in a little section plate. So there is no hierarchy within the food. So we're not treating sweet foods as a treat. And as a reward. As a reward for eating your savoury foods. And for the children that I have done that with from a really, really young age,

Generally, they'll often eat the yogurt first because it's there, but then they might leave the strawberries and go for the cucumber or the pasta or do you know what mean? So it does, I think that really, really works. I love that. Absolutely no hierarchy. such a brilliant sort of idea. All of us could do with a bit of that in our lives probably. I mean, I'm a complete sugar addict. am. I try.

try not to have loads of sugar, but I have, know, for transparency, I will go through phases where I'll eat lots and lots of sugar because I love it. So I think I certainly would benefit from having that, maybe having that option rather than seeing, because I do see sweet foods definitely as a reward, even though I know what I'm telling you now. So I think introducing that from a young age is a good thing. So again, I'm at that point where I've got two teenagers and I still get with one of them in particular, like will not eat everything on his plate.

I would say in my opinion doesn't eat enough, but then is automatically ready to eat a biscuit or whatever. Do I just let him? Obviously I can't tell you to let him or not let him, that is your decision as a parent. That's the important thing to say to your children. know, anybody that I'm speaking to or working to in working with, it's your children's, so it's your decision as to whether you do that. Personally, I would say no. I'd say that's fine. You don't have to eat your dinner, but if you don't, then there's nothing else.

until the next meal. That's what I would say. And I think if you stick with that from a younger age, it's easier. But if you stick with that, then they learn to understand that boundary and that's where it is. But it is hard with all the children. How do you stop them going in the cupboard to get something? It's quite difficult. Yeah, completely. And I mean, I remember as a child, and maybe I shouldn't say this out loud, but sneaking. Sneaking.

Sneaking down to my dad worked for Mars. We had the best gosh, the best chocolate cupboards just sneaking down and eating chocolate even though I'd probably not eat some dinner, but I think the overriding thing that's coming out for me from what you're saying is consistency Always that is my favorite word. I Use it all the time not just to do with food at all but in all aspects of parenting and I get bored of hearing myself sometimes saying it but it's all about

being consistent. If you are consistent, the more consistent you are, the easier things will be because your children know where your boundaries are, what's expected, what's okay, blah, blah. And they honestly respond really well to it because they just know. They just know how things are. And you don't tend to see this erratic behavior around food or anything else because they know the boundaries. So everything tends to be much more of an even keel.

Obviously you're a sleep specialist as well. Talk to us if there is any correlation between food and sleep. So again, there can be. Generally, again, would be more related to having the wrong sort of food at the wrong type of day. And by wrong, I mean things that could negatively impact sleep, which again would be those kind of...

fast burning carbs and refined sugars, those are the things that I'd avoid later in the day. And I would focus more on sort of protein rich foods and slow release carbs later on in the day. So that's kind of the only real thing I would say in terms of what you might think about. Does it matter what time they eat or things like that? Not, especially again with babies, it can.

Obviously I work with babies with colic and reflux but also work with babies with allergies and intolerances and digestive issues and stuff like that. when you're talking about that age group, a baby's or a child's digestive system isn't fully completely formed until they're three years old or until they've got all their teeth. That's how we know that a child's digestive system is fully formed. So when they're little, I always say to people, if you're going to introduce, when you're introducing a new food to their diet,

introduce it earlier in the day, not later in the day, because then it's had time to, you know, transit through their system, or you're likely to see any kind of adverse digestive reactions before bedtime, before nighttime. And so that's obviously for much younger children. Then once you get kind of past that that kind of phase, it's more about avoiding lots of sugary food before bed and, yeah, and focusing on filling them up really at dinnertime with

good quality protein and those slow release carbs. I'm sort of jumping about, but I've just had a thought about something else that we've also talked about in the sense that I talked about some research that I found whereby about two thirds, I think it was, of families are making multiple meals. So different things for different children. What are your thoughts on that? I think you probably know what I'm going to say by the way the conversation's been going. I personally just would not entertain that.

It's just something that I would not do. Equally, I wouldn't serve something that I knew one of the children, one of the members of the family, really did not like, unless I was accompanying it by some things that I knew that they did like, as I discussed about putting things on their plate that they like alongside something that maybe they don't. So it's kind of planning your meals around who's going to be eating them and making sure that there's a balance of things that everybody likes, obviously with some things that maybe...

they're not so keen on or they haven't tried for a long time, perhaps or ever. Yeah, so I think, I personally think if you go down that route of offering separate meals to everybody, you're just creating a real problem for yourself, you know, you're constantly, and for that child as an adult as well, that sometimes we do need to eat things that aren't our favorite or, you know, in certain situations and stuff like that. You know, you're almost,

embracing the fussy eater, if you like, and making it more of a thing than rather than trying to move away from that. I'm loving this. I could keep on talking to you, but. another thing to talk about though on that quickly. Is that all right? Yeah, definitely. OK, so I think the other mistake that people make when children are younger is giving them too much choice. Now, I say that because it's choice for a young child is massively overwhelming.

So if you say to, I don't know, a two, three year old, what would you like for dinner? They're probably going to say chocolate spread sandwiches or fish fingers or I don't know, whatever it might be that you don't want them to have that day. And then the likelihood is you'll make whatever they want. And they'll be like, I didn't want that. And have, you know, have a drama about it. So what I, but, but I am a big fan of giving children a controlled choice. So for the right age group. So.

A younger child, a much younger child, you'd only give a choice of two options, but you're still giving them some input into what they're having. So would you like chicken and broccoli or would you like chilli with some rice today, you know, for your dinner? So two things, two options and they get to choose. I mean, I think it's really interesting you say that younger children find choice overwhelming. I would argue that actually, you know, my 14 year old.

still would be the same. 100%. But don't we all? How indecisive are most of us? If I said to you, what do you want for dinner tonight? It's the worst question, isn't it? We know that question, you know, we all hate it. I I regularly ask my husband or if my son's here or whatever, I regularly ask what do you want? Because I don't want to decide what we're going to have again, you know, and I'm sure every mother in the land or, you know, feels like that. Yeah.

So I think you're right. That definitely giving two choices, you're still giving a choice, but you're making it manageable. So that's quite a nice thing to do. So you're involving them in the process, but you're not overwhelming them and opening yourself up for possible. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Amazing. right. We've got to move on because obviously I know you as well because you own a Thermomix. I do. Tell me why you got one.

I, this is quite a funny story really. So I worked, when I was working as a nanny in my very first placement from college, I was only about 16, 17. And the family I worked for, the dad was Swedish and they had this machine in their kitchen. And I thought, what is that? So anyway, I remember her making soups and sauces and things in it. And obviously it was a much older thermomix because this is going back over 30 years. And I never really thought about it again. And then somebody I know.

Well on on Facebook I was seeing these posts about so it Nick got me very curious. I I love a gadget I love anything that makes my life easier. I am also a bit impulsive So I kept looking at this thing, but obviously it's a big investment So I kept looking I was what I would call a lurker for about a year I think and kept looking kept looking and then eventually had a demo and so on and and was just blown away by

by the Thermomix and what it could do. I literally mind blowing when you first see it. I think the first sort of few times you see it. Then I still thought about it a little bit because I was like, can I afford it? And so we might probably a lot of people are. There was a point where I just thought, do you know what? I want it. That's it. And I am, I, when I decided on something like that, I'm quite, you know, decisive. So there we go. Nearly two years ago now I got my Thermomix. And yeah. How has it, how has it changed your world? I think for me it's the speed at which it does things.

that would take me forever, like chopping and you know, those kind of things and being able to make food that easily that would before have been like a real pain. So like a risotto, for example, you know, none of this standing over, stirring it, pouring in the stock gradually, all that malarkey. I love eating risotto, but I would mostly save it for when I went to a restaurant because I couldn't bother to cook it. And also I love cooking from scratch and it's just made that so much easier.

to do all the time rather than the majority of the time. Because there's no need to eat processed food because I can make everything myself so easily. And you use the word gadget. Is it a gadget or would you describe it differently now? Totally differently. It's not a gadget at all because two years down the line and I still use it multiple times every day. Whereas every other gadget that I've bought, bread makers, active fries,

You know, the list, air fryer even, all those things, I either hardly ever use now, or I discarded long ago because I got bored of those. Whereas the Thermomix is, you know, with 90,000 recipes or whatever on Cookie Do, you're never going to get bored. And it also helps with that inspiration as well. You know, when you're lacking what we were just talking about, lacking an inspiration of what to cook. And your children that you look after, do you ever get them to use it?

I do. They absolutely love it. They absolutely love it. So again, obviously you're involving them in the cooking process, which is brilliant. So I love cooking with children and actually when I cook with really young children, obviously very, very young, I wouldn't use the Thermomix, but even from about two, I have them up on the counter with me. And, you know, we talk about, don't touch this or we don't do whatever and those kinds of things.

But they love pressing the button, they love pouring things in, they love seeing what's happening. know, sometimes you don't need the measuring cup in and they can look through. And if it's, you know, making a dough or something like that. Yeah. And it's just really positive. And children of this generation are used to technology. So they know, they know what to do. Like they, you know, they know to click green button for next and, know, turn the dial and stuff. It's, it's, it's sort of almost second nature to them. So yeah, definitely. I use it all the time with children. It's like a little robot to them, isn't it?

Okay, so I guess because you're working with children, you've just been talking about how you get them involved. Just sort of stepping back from that, if you could pick two or three things that you make in the Thermomix, which ones stand out for you as, you know, kids loving? Okay, so the first one I'm going to say is the bacon and tomato spaghetti. And it's a fun thing to make.

because the spaghetti wells through there, you put the spaghetti through the hole in the mixing bowl and the children absolutely love watching that. But it just goes down really well every time. It's nutritious, it's healthy and you can serve veg or salad or whatever with it if you want to as well. The second is the banana and oatmeal energy bars which were really good, much healthier alternative to a shop-bought, you know, processed packaged snack. So it's always good to have some of those in. And then the third one has probably got to be the good old chunky bolognese.

Because who doesn't like a bolognese? I'm yet to meet a child that isn't keen on bolognese. So that's just always one that I go back to time and time again. It's interesting because I rave about that recipe because of the texture. I like it because it means that they're eating a textured meat dish.

Yeah, absolutely. It was the first thing I made in my thermomix because I knew what it was supposed to look like. It's a bolognese. Everyone's made a bolognese. felt familiar. exactly. Yeah, definitely. And with that, you can also chuck in other hidden veggies as well, which I'm sure you probably do, but...

I'm a great fan of doing that and you can actually do that with tomato and bacon pasta as well. anything that you can do that with children to get in those extra, especially if you've got a fussy eater is always good. I can do every vegetable. I can hide every vegetable apart from a mushroom. It doesn't matter what I put it in. There is a radar for a mushroom. Yeah. And I think it darkens the colour quite a lot when you put a mushroom in, doesn't it?

in anything. Yeah, and the older they get, the more wise they get to these things. exactly. All right, two questions I always ask every guest. First one, if you had to describe a thermomix to an alien or somebody who had absolutely no idea what it was and in a simple way, what would you say? I think I'd say it's like the king, it's like the big boy of the kitchen appliances. Yeah.

and that it will change your life in the kitchen, basically. That's kind of it in a nutshell, isn't it? I think that's, yeah, that's kind of how I would describe it. And I'd like to say, I would not want to be without.

my thermics, that's the other thing I'd say to people. It's changed my life that much that I would never want to be without one. You'd be gutted if you came downstairs. my goodness, yes, I would and it had gone. Okay, and then just a nice sort of overriding question. If time, energy, all those things weren't a part of your world, what would be your dream meal to make for you and your partner? Absolutely, well we both really like seafood.

I don't cook masses of it, you know, I cook prawns and things like that, but to cook something amazing with seafood, yeah, that probably would be kind of one of my dreams, you know, like lobster Thermidor or something that I just wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't do at home, but yeah, we both love seafood. that would be something that I definitely would like to achieve one day. I want to say a absolutely massive, massive, massive thank you. You have...

given us so much insight into lots of different things that I think we're probably aware of, but just to hear it, like don't give food a hierarchy, controlled choice, emotion, just try and step back away from it as a parent. Don't hide foods from children. They need to see it about 15, 20, maybe more times before that they absolutely know that they don't know it. So absolutely amazing. I am guessing that we are going to get lots of questions, lots of feedback because

You've touched a nerve. think the people who are listening to this are experiencing this day in, day out. So I think I would love to get you back in the future so that we can have some of those questions re-answered, maybe explore things in a little bit more detail in certain areas. So I hope that you would be up for that. Of course I would. I'd love to come back. Amazing. And the one thing I would like you to just share with everyone is how can people get in touch with you if they need to about any of the things that you do? Please tell everyone.

Okay, so my business is called Sue's Baby. It's just one word exactly as you would expect it to be spelled and you can find me online and across all the socials. Amazing. I will add those into the show notes. So if anyone would like that confirmation, then just check the show notes.

So again, just thank you so much. I really enjoyed that. Amazing. what an amazing episode. Absolutely loved that chat with Cheryl and I really hope you did enjoy it too. So please do take me up on sending me any questions, any comments, and I will get Cheryl back. But also don't forget that we've got the Facebook group that you can go and get some extra support in there. And my inbox is always open at notpastraagainathotmail.com.

So yeah, like I said, please look after yourselves, have a good couple of weeks, come back and listen to the next episode because it's all about ensuring that we're not feeling overwhelmed and that we can together flourish rather than flounder when it comes to putting food on the table.

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