Hi there! I'm chatting with Ida Radovanovic from Playground in this week's episode.

Ida called her business a Playground to keep reminding herself how she wanted to see work.

After 12+ years of career at a corporation, Ida is now proudly a solopreneur. She blends gamification, accountability buddies and research-based productivity tips to help people work on what is meaningful to them and spark closeness. It's an unusual, but powerful mix vs. procrastination.

If you are tired of procrastination games ;) and want a more creative way to get stuff done, feel free to connect with Ida and say hi.

Ida shares her top 4 tips for overcoming procrastination:

1. If you don't know where to start, start with something small and specific. Something that you can clearly mark off as complete.
2. Use a planning system. Ida recommends WOOP and Backwards goal planning.
3. Try to work with less perfectionism and be kind to yourself. "80% done is good enough!"
4. Remind yourself that you are part of a community or get yourself an accountability buddy.

Ida has Tip number 5 for you to download here.

Procrastinating with your podcast 😬?

The next 3-month Anti-Procrastination Playground Programme starts: Oct 31st at 18.00 GMT. Learn more HERE. 

40€ OFF for you lucky listeners! CODE: PLAYMORE  Sign-up HERE.

Ida's website

Ida Instagram

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Rachael Botfield: 00:00:08

Hi, and welcome to podcasting one on one with Rachel.

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:12

This podcast is for busy female entrepreneurs who run their own

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:15

businesses and want to start a podcast or who may already have a podcast.

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:20

I want to share practical information and tips on how you can get your podcast

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:25

started and managing it along the way.

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:27

I'll also be interviewing other female podcast hosts to give you

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:30

real insight into what it's like.

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:32

Have

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:40

Hi,

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:44

and welcome to this week's episode today I have with me Ida and she is

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:50

from the, the founder of Playground.

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:54

Ida blends gamification, accountability buddies, and research based productivity

Rachael Botfield: 00:00:59

tips to help people work on what is meaningful to them and spark closeness.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:03

And it's unusual, but power, powerful mix versus procrastination.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:08

Welcome, Ida.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:09

It's really, really great to have you here on the podcast.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:11

How are you?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:13

Hi, Rachael.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:14

Yeah, that was a lot of big words for my playground.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:21

Yes, I am the founder of this unusual platform for anti procrastination.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:29

And I called it a playground because I want to remind myself and maybe you as

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:34

well, what is really important and how we can do our business in a different way.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:39

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:40

I like that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:01:41

I like the, I like it saying playground.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:43

Yes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:44

You know, like, how can we play more with what?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:46

What we are creating, because of course we care a lot about what we make.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:49

And sometimes in the creating process, we can get a little bit rigid and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:55

perfectionistic, but if we go back to it this is something I think that most

Ida Radovanovic: 00:01:59

of us choose and that we care about.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:01

So how can we have that a little bit of a different mindset

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:04

towards it, that not take it so seriously and enjoy the process?

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:09

Yeah, sometimes it can be, it can feel like a painful

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:13

process if we're especially trying to do something that we might not necessarily

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:17

want to get started for whatever reason.

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:20

So how did you come to get into being a solo business owner?

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:25

You know, I see that you were in you have a corporate background.

Rachael Botfield: 00:02:29

What made you make the shift into, you know, a solo business owner?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:35

Well I was in a corporate world for like 12 years,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:38

but it was always in my mind thinking of what, what I really want to be

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:43

doing, like what is really meaningful.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:45

To me and you know, especially during Corona, I think when we were stuck

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:50

and when we were thinking about that a lot, what we really care

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:53

about this is when this became more obvious or I can be totally honest.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:02:58

It's not that at this time I had this idea and I was like, okay, let's do it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:02

No.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:03

I have quit my job just before Corona and wanted to be a social entrepreneur.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:09

So I wanted to create have a business that also supports, you know,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:12

the planet and the people and is profitable in tourism, but since we

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:17

got locked, that was not possible.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:21

I was back

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:25

at the drawing board.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:26

But I definitely knew that my next step was something.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:31

That I was really going to create from my heart.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:34

And I was in the situation of being in a new situation, being alone.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:40

And so, how can you surpass that and start creating and take those risks?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:46

And then, okay, start, but also continue.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:48

So, that mix of, like, creating something.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:51

Meaningful than leaning on someone else and also kind of not taking yourself

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:57

too seriously while you're doing it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:03:59

Those are all the elements of how I wish the world would be more

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:03

like and this is why I'm also making my playground so we can.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:08

together do all of that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:04:11

So who are the main kinds of people that you're helping

Rachael Botfield: 00:04:14

with the work that you're doing?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:16

Well, I help people usually solopreneurs or maybe somebody

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:21

who wants to work on their side hustle.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:24

Or maybe somebody on a passion project.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:27

So it doesn't necessarily have to be related to, you know, like a

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:32

monetary thing, but maybe you would just really like to start creating

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:37

a podcast and you're postponing it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:41

And now you arrive and you get connected with somebody

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:45

who is in a similar situation.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:47

So this is your accountability buddy.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:49

And then you're in this together and you enter a system that I created.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:53

So for three months you are progressing week by week, committing what you will do.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:04:59

So it's very specific, very simple.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:02

And you're also playing games.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:04

So and maybe now you wonder what, how do games come in,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:09

come into this whole equation.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:11

It's not like the Super Mario and points and all of this because some of my

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:15

friends thought this is what happens.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:17

No.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:19

These are more like conversation and get to know your games so that you actually

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:23

talk about your what you are creating or maybe what you are not creating.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:28

Via a game, so that you relax, you're you know, a little bit more of an authentic

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:32

self, you get new ideas being in a let's say framework where you're playing versus

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:38

like delivering and tasks really helps.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:41

To keep us to start and to keep us going and to connect us to the other

Ida Radovanovic: 00:05:45

person who is in the similar situation.

Rachael Botfield: 00:05:48

Yeah, I think that's important, isn't it?

Rachael Botfield: 00:05:50

Having, I do like having an accountability person there.

Rachael Botfield: 00:05:54

I think it does, it does work.

Rachael Botfield: 00:05:55

I, I feel that's something that helps me as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:05:58

I attend some accountability sessions where we just kind of sit on zoom, but we

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:02

all have a thing that we need to get done.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:04

And, and, you know, we, we do that thing in that hour.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:06

So I, I.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:07

I really like that method of working.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:10

So obviously since I met you and heard about you and got to know

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:13

you a little bit more about being anti procrastination, I thought it

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:16

would make a really great episode.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:18

That's why we're here.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:19

For all of you that haven't started your podcast yet, and maybe

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:23

procrastinating on certain tasks to get it finished or to even start it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:27

So I wanted either to come along and.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:30

a little bit about what she does.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:32

And also she's going to be giving us some tips and advice around what you

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:37

can do to, for some, so how you can move forward with your, your podcast

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:42

project, whatever that may be, however, whatever state is in currently.

Rachael Botfield: 00:06:47

So what would be your first kind of tip Ida?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:06:52

I have so many, but I tried to downsize so that you get

Ida Radovanovic: 00:06:58

something specific that you can, you know, take away from, from this episode.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:03

Although I just spoke to Rachel and I said that I will talk about the four,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:07

but then we will put a secret little link for an extra tip inside the notes.

Rachael Botfield: 00:07:11

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:07:12

So we can, you can look out for that in the show notes on the

Rachael Botfield: 00:07:15

website and on your podcast apps.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:19

Because, you know, of course you will listen through

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:21

all the tips, maybe you will know some of them, but more importantly

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:25

it is that you action something out.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:26

So if nothing from the listening, you can action the one, the secret

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:30

little link one middle of the notes.

Rachael Botfield: 00:07:33

And that's what you want to do to beat that

Rachael Botfield: 00:07:35

procrastination is follow through and do that actionable thing.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:39

Yes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:40

We get out of our heads, you know?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:42

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:42

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:43

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:44

So, so I do want to give you something pragmatic and something that you can use.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:48

So I was thinking about these four tips.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:51

So the first one being if you are starting something or, you know, if you're in this

Ida Radovanovic: 00:07:57

situation, Oh, I just can't seem to start.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:01

And maybe it is that you would.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:03

You want to start your podcast, maybe you're back from holidays and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:07

you need to restart your projects.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:10

Or maybe you are a business owner and then you have a podcast, but

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:14

you now need to start promoting it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:17

So we are all starting something, right?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:20

And so the, the first tip would be to start with something really

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:24

small and also very specific.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:28

So, again, I'm going to give an example because I think those work really well.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:33

So instead of being like, oh, I should really come up with

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:37

some kind of content strategy.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:40

Something really small would be, I'm going to spend five minutes

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:46

brainstorming ideas for content.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:50

So the small thing should really be something that you can't say no to.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:53

I mean, everybody has five minutes, right?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:54

Yep.

Rachael Botfield: 00:08:56

Yep, absolutely.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:08:58

And then also make it very specific so that you can,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:01

you know, be honest with yourself.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:02

Did I do this or I didn't do this?

Rachael Botfield: 00:09:05

So you've got your item, you can tick off and

Rachael Botfield: 00:09:07

say, right, I have done that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:09:09

In that five minutes,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:11

exactly, because, you know, the counter example would be

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:14

like, Oh, I'm going to do a research.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:16

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:17

But what, where, when, how long, you know, so just be pick something small that you

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:23

won't procrastinate and make it specific.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:26

So that's the first step.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:28

Then the second one that I also see people have often is that we have so many things

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:34

that on our to do lists, or maybe we have a lot of ideas that we are excited about.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:40

This is also a great situation to have but then again, we don't begin.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:45

So what we can do there is to use a planning system.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:50

Maybe you already have.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:51

Something that you like.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:54

What I use on my playground, and what I personally also use when I'm working, and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:09:58

I work alone are two different things.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:01

So one is called a woop.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:04

I don't know if you've heard of it, Rachel, before.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:06

No, no, I've

Rachael Botfield: 00:10:07

not heard of that one.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:09

Yes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:10

So apart from having, I like to say a very cool name, like whoop whoop,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:13

you know, immediately like tears you on, it is a, like scientifically

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:21

scientifically proven method, which helps us move from like this wishful

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:25

thinking into actually having a plan.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:28

And it stands for WOOP.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:30

So first you think of your wish.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:33

And the best possible outcome, you know, when they tell us all, like, think about,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:37

you know, like visualize and there's all the positive stuff, that's good,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:41

but it's not enough, science tells us.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:44

So then the next step from that is also to do, to brainstorm all the obstacles.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:50

So, okay, this is really great, but you know that you do this to yourself,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:54

like the inner critic, you know, is telling you, yeah, Rachel, but

Ida Radovanovic: 00:10:57

okay, now I don't have time or like, I don't know, whatever it could be.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:01

Yeah, absolutely.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:02

So you come.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:04

Right?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:05

So you then contrast these two and make a plan.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:10

And if you want, for our listeners, maybe we can try to do a mini test

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:15

where Rachel does her first WOOP now.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:18

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:18

I'm up for that.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:20

Yes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:21

So the first step, and you guys can maybe think about your own is what kind of,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:25

so what is your wish for this podcast?

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:28

Can it be, does it need to be something really specific?

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:31

Like, Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:31

Or is it just like a general wish?

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:32

No,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:33

this is like the grandiose, this is the video.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:11:35

Like, oh, a wish, that my podcast was.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:37

Okay, so what was my wish for this podcast?

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:40

I, oh,

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:42

I would, I suppose, I just want to help, help everyone get their podcast started.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:49

So I guess my wish.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:52

For this podcast is to build a community around the podcast.

Rachael Botfield: 00:11:57

So the there's, it's helping have that tangible thing of being able

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:02

to knowing that I'm out there and giving this information to help people

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:06

move forward with their podcast.

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:07

So I'd like to kind of build a community around it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:11

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:11

I love it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:13

And now be honest with us.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:15

So what is your, like, obstacle?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:17

What is your internal obstacle that, you know, on those days when you're

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:20

not doing it, what is telling you?

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:23

My internal obstacle is that no one's going to turn up.

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:27

That's my, like, if I started, you know, a Facebook group, because I

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:31

know a lot of podcasts do that to help build community that no one

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:34

would come talk to me in there.

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:36

So that's my, I guess that's my big obstacle.

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:39

Yeah, that would be my main one of creating a community

Rachael Botfield: 00:12:42

specifically around this podcast.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:45

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:46

And then the plan would be that.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:49

Okay, and you need to think about it this way.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:51

You should think, okay, I really want to have this amazing community and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:54

to support people, but I have also this fear that nobody will show up.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:12:59

And then, now you do an if.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:01

So, if I think that nobody will show up, then, and now you come

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:05

up with some kind of an action.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:07

What could it be?

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:08

Why no one would show up or?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:10

Yeah, like what comes to my mind, it could be that

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:13

I will remind myself of all the other times when people did show up.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:17

Oh, right.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:17

Yes.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:17

You know?

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:18

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:19

Yes, that's true.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:20

Okay.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:21

I would remind myself, you know, that I've had, I've spoken to different people that

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:26

have listened to the podcast and they have told me that they really enjoy it and they

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:28

got something out of it and that if they had any other questions they'd ask me.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:32

So I guess just to remind myself of that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:35

I've had, you know, some people have said that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:13:40

So it must be helping somebody, hopefully.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:43

I'm sure you are.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:46

Oh, you know, for example, with the, because you also smiled at the

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:48

busy thing, because we are all busy.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:50

So if you feel like, oh, but I'm too busy to now be, you know, I don't know,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:54

reaching out to people, creating, like making these content strategies, then

Ida Radovanovic: 00:13:59

I can, you know, carve out a time in my calendar and actually block that too.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:05

Do X, Y, Z, you know, so it is a little bit of that kind of a process.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:10

So you can, you sit down, you go through what you would really love

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:14

this to be, what is the ideal outcome?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:17

Then you let your inner inner critique go and then you make a plan.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:20

So what you will do.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:21

So that's, for example that this really helps you.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:23

This planning system helps you with kind of a mindset to go forward.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:28

Then we have another planning system which is called backwards goal planning.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:33

And this is really cool because instead of like, okay, I should do this and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:37

this and this, you go, or you're like, I need to publish an episode.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:40

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:40

But before publishing an episode, what do I need to do?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:43

You're like, I need a speaker.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:45

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:45

But before I need a speaker, what do I need?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:47

Oh, I probably need to research speakers or find some people.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:51

Okay.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:52

But before that, and you know, you go step by step by step, which

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:54

then leads you to your first step.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:14:56

So now you have a plan on how you will.

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:01

Yeah, I like that, they're working backwards from

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:04

it, sometimes that's easy because you'll start, sometimes it's the

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:07

staring at the blank page, isn't it?

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:09

You're going, I've got to come up with the first thing, whereas if

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:13

you, if you start with the outcome that you want, then working backwards

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:16

can help, can help with that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:15:18

Yeah, that's great, I like that one.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:21

Cool.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:22

I hope, you know, like maybe these not each one will be relevant for

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:25

everyone, but maybe people can find different angles that will support them.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:29

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:30

Then a third tip that I had, you know, is if you are like, okay, I'll post,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:36

or I will publish, or I will like when, and then you're kind of not doing it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:42

This one is just a little bit more like.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:44

to try to work with less perfectionism and more kindness towards yourself.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:49

And then, you know, kindness can be like that you take a break, or like,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:53

kindness can be that you go walk in the park, or like, maybe let it sleep over.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:15:58

Because when we get short, like, okay, like I'm moving, I know I'm creating on

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:02

my website, I move the colors a little bit, this a little bit, it takes ages.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:08

But sometimes you need to kind of step back.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:11

Or the other one, which I really like is to make it a little bit like a game.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:14

You know, how can you make it more exciting?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:17

And this one is not a podcast related example, but for example, I really

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:20

procrastinate with washing dishes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:23

So, so I found a small system for myself or a game that I

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:29

and it goes different ways.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:31

But I choose a favorite song and then I am racing against my song to see how

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:37

many dishes I can wash in this one song.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:41

Oh,

Rachael Botfield: 00:16:41

that's really funny.

Rachael Botfield: 00:16:41

That's really good.

Rachael Botfield: 00:16:42

Actually.

Rachael Botfield: 00:16:42

That's a good way to make it more fun.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:45

And you know, when you zoom out, actually, you know,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:48

then like a, let's say a little bit of a philosophical thing here is then

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:51

you see that this thing that you're postponing, that's draining you, which

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:54

what we do with our tasks actually took.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:57

three minutes of a song.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:16:59

So sometimes it's good to be reminded, you know, all this energy that

Ida Radovanovic: 00:17:02

goes into worrying or spiraling or overthinking versus like do it and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:17:07

okay, that's perfect or something fun.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:17:09

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:09

Yeah, I do.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:10

I find that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:11

Well, so sometimes when my husband, this is not podcast related, but

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:14

sometimes when my husband's away a lot and I've got the kids and cooking

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:17

team, I'm really tired and I was like, Oh, I just can't be bothered.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:19

But then I think, no, I'm going to put up.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:21

I, this is when I kind of listened to podcasts as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:25

I think Whatever podcast I want to catch up on and then I

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:28

kind of get absorbed in that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:29

So even though I didn't want to do it, I think actually I've managed to listen to

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:34

a podcast episode that I really wanted to listen to and I've learned something or

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:37

I've had a laugh or something like that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:39

And then also I've cooked tea and not just gone, Oh, I'm just going to eat something

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:42

rubbish or, you know, buy something easy.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:44

So that was, I kind of do that similar thing there to cry and

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:48

egg myself on to do something.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:50

But I do also.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:52

Agree with you about taking a break sometimes or when

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:55

you do get in your own head.

Rachael Botfield: 00:17:57

When I first, when I first niched into podcasting and I had my virtually

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:03

inspiring podcast, which was I just wanted to start a podcast and I was

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:06

interviewing other virtual assistants.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:08

And I've got really in my head about like releasing the

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:11

episodes and am I doing it right?

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:13

I've not done it right before, but I want to be a podcast manager.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:16

Shouldn't I know all these kind of things and like.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:19

That really got in my head about it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:20

And I thought just in the end I was like, you know what, just, just get it

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:23

out there and see what people think.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:24

And, you know, you get, you have to just get over that little thing.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:27

And, and often that does, you know, like you've bonged it up, you've let it go

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:31

and actually makes you feel a lot better.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:33

So yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:34

Taking, taking a break or just hit and go and then go, right.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:37

I'm gonna hit go and turn my computer off and then it's all gonna be fine.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:42

, and of course it is always fine, but

Ida Radovanovic: 00:18:44

You know what they say that post a ghost on

Ida Radovanovic: 00:18:46

Instagram, I do it as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:48

I was, I had a real thing about posting on Instagram

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:50

when I first started my business.

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:52

I was kind of like, who wants to hear from me?

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:54

And what if I say something wrong and I mean, not that I say very, you know,

Rachael Botfield: 00:18:58

outrageous things or anything like that for people to be trolling me or anything,

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:02

but not that it takes much apparently.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:04

I know a lot of other people I see that are, you know, getting.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:07

trolled and, or told LinkedIn isn't a, not Facebook and things,

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:12

but that really held me back.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:14

But then I guess, cause I, I decided just to do it to just be brave,

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:18

post them in there and then started to build a community of people.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:21

Cause obviously it started out with, with zero people, you know, going into

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:25

the online space, but then you find, you start finding your tribe, finding

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:29

those people that you connect with and.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:30

then it becomes a much more friendlier place, but it's, unless you start kind

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:35

of doing it, you, you know, you're not going to get over that first hurdle.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:40

So it's trying to find a way that's going to get you over that first

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:43

hurdle of your procrastination.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:45

And then hopefully.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:19:48

And what about all those people, you know, who are

Ida Radovanovic: 00:19:50

missing out because you are waiting there and, you know, fixing like

Ida Radovanovic: 00:19:53

a tiny little editing team or, you

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:56

know?

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:56

Yeah, absolutely.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:57

That's with website as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:19:59

I think I did get, I've had mine done recently and my amazing

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:03

friend, Hannah helped me with the design and she supported me with a

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:06

copy, but my first one, I just did it myself, very rough and ready.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:11

And I just.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:12

Just hit go and I thought I'm just going to, otherwise I was

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:14

never, like you say, never going to get that information out there.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:16

It was a great place to point people to, but if you spend too

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:20

much time, yeah, can hold you back.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:22

And, you know, it is messy doing stuff, running your own business and, you

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:27

know, putting yourself out there doing podcasts or whatever your, your passion

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:30

project is, or, you know, business.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:32

It is, it does make you feel, especially it's the first time you're doing, it

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:35

does make you feel a bit vulnerable.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:36

And.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:37

you know, doing those things.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:38

So, and it only, I suppose, it only gets easier than you

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:41

get to kind of the next level.

Rachael Botfield: 00:20:43

And then you

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:44

have something new.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:46

Exactly, exactly.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:49

Yes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:49

You know, with the perfectionism, I mean.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:52

I keep, I keep reminding myself I have a playground exactly for this reason and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:20:58

I say now I like write it 80 percent is good enough and I kind of pride myself

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:03

when I can and I feel so free to publish something that's 80 percent good enough.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:09

So, you know, I think a different angle, like, yes, go out with something

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:12

that you are, Oh, it's not according to your standards, a hundred percent.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:15

So what?

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:17

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:17

But you could always be searching for that a hundred percent though, can't you?

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:20

It's like, well, there's always something that you could find wrong with it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:23

Something that doesn't look quite right.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:25

And then you just, like I say, that's when you just don't do anything about it then.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:28

So,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:29

yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:29

And sometimes it even drains you so much that now you're no longer

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:33

Want to publish it or enjoy it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:35

Like this great idea now became something that like sucked life out of you.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:39

Yeah, we don't want that.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:41

No.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:21:42

We want you to be creating

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:43

long term.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:44

Yeah, exactly.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:44

And I think that's potentially what a podcast could become if you know,

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:50

you, you're already running your own business, you're busy with clients.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:53

You've got to market yourself as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:55

And, you know, you're thinking, can I add this extra thing?

Rachael Botfield: 00:21:58

in for my business, being realistic about it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:00

But also you don't want to make this awesome idea you had for a podcast

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:05

with probably this great content.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:06

It's going to build your authority.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:08

You're going to connect more with your dream clients.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:10

It's also going to help you with your marketing.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:11

You can repurpose your podcast.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:13

So it will be, it will help you, but you don't want to turn it

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:16

into like a chain around your neck and then you don't, you know.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:19

Like you said, sucking all the joy out of your life or your business having it, you

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:23

want to make it a positive, exciting thing to do a podcast and get that started.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:28

Exactly.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:29

And I think it's a little bit like exercising as well.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:31

You know, it's not like, okay, you started doing something, you're not

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:34

going to have muscles immediately.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:36

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:37

I mean, you will have to continue going and doing the training

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:41

and that's part of the journey.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:42

So yeah, you get, you sustain your wellbeing because we are.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:48

Like whole beings.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:49

We are not just our product.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:51

We are not just our podcast.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:52

We are not, we need to be there long term.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:22:55

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:56

Yeah, absolutely.

Rachael Botfield: 00:22:57

Looking at it like the bit, you know, the, the full picture of everything

Rachael Botfield: 00:23:00

that's, that's kind of going on.

Rachael Botfield: 00:23:02

Those are great.

Rachael Botfield: 00:23:03

I had, you have one more tip.

Rachael Botfield: 00:23:05

Excellent.

Rachael Botfield: 00:23:05

Go

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:05

on.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:06

We have one more.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:06

This was three.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:07

This was three and we have that extra one.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:10

So my last one is that you know, there are just some of those days when you're

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:13

like, oh, but I don't feel like doing it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:17

So when you feel like that, or maybe you're a little bit lonely, you know?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:21

So I say on those days remind yourself how important it is to connect with others.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:28

So this could be that you're a part of a community, like what you're doing, go back

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:32

to your community, to see what others are.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:34

Posting, sharing resources, what's helping them, or or get an accountability body.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:40

Those are I have found those to be really important and they

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:44

serve kind of different purposes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:45

So I'm part of several communities, but I also have my own accountability buddy.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:50

Because with one on one interaction with the person who is there to listen

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:55

to you, but also you kind of, you know, that you will meet them in one

Ida Radovanovic: 00:23:59

week and they will ask you, did you do your thing and you, and you don't

Ida Radovanovic: 00:24:05

want to like stand them up and you want to also be accountable to yourself.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:24:09

So that really, really helps and makes a

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:12

difference.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:13

Yeah, we were saying before we hit record.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:14

I love that accountability thing.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:16

My friend Hannah, who I mentioned before, she had, she loved, she rephrased it like

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:20

accountabilibuddy, which I really love.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:23

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:24

So we so she was, I was doing her set up for success course earlier this year.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:29

And she was my accountability for getting my copy done for my website.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:34

You know, we decided on a timeframe.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:36

So that was really, and then getting that feedback as well,

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:39

I think is really valuable.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:40

So you can, you can be that for each other with, with feedback if you

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:44

want to get and it just makes it.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:48

Sometimes it's really nice to get another set of eyes on what you're doing as

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:51

well and, and getting that support.

Rachael Botfield: 00:24:53

And yeah, so that's a really great, a really great recommendation.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:24:57

Exactly because friends, of course they want to support

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:00

you and you can tell them your things, but somebody who is in a similar

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:03

situation just knows what you're.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:05

Going through, and some of us don't even necessarily have that person.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:09

So, but now when you have this, and you know what friends, they

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:12

kind of cut you slack sometimes.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:14

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:15

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:16

I didn't know that you had a billy, but how did, how did you call it, Rachel?

Rachael Botfield: 00:25:20

Accountabilibuddy.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:22

Okay, it's a little bit hard to pronounce, but yes,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:25

that, then it's just different.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:28

And you know that you're not alone in it because all the other

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:32

tips that I told you before, you know, any kind of education or.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:36

To do lists or my calendar or my Trello.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:39

I use all of them.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:40

I love all of them.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:41

But again, with those, I'm again alone.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:44

So, and it makes a difference to have somebody live there, like a

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:49

live person that listens to you.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:51

Maybe just listen, doesn't even need to give you feedback.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:55

But you can air out your thoughts, you can hear yourself and you can

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:58

commit then to the next thing.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:25:59

So,

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:00

yeah, I, I do think, agree about if, you know, being in a

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:03

similar situation to business wise as well, because you kind of, because you're

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:08

in, you just have that relatability there for somebody, like say with your

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:12

friends or your partner or anything like that, they're not in, if they don't

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:15

have the same, you know, experience as you, it's, it's, it's a bit different.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:19

So it's nice having that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:20

You know, something that's the same between you and you know, you're

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:23

both trying to achieve something and

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:26

yeah, yes, no.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:27

One friend told me when I was starting this business, he said, yeah, you

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:31

know, when you break a leg, of course you will go to the doctor, but

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:35

doctor can't really understand it.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:36

Somebody else who broke the leg that really knows what you're going through.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:39

Yeah, that's true.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:41

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:42

Yeah, that is true.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:43

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:43

Unless they broke the leg themselves, you have that.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:47

That's yeah, well, those are awesome tips.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:48

Yeah,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:26:51

they will both help you, but it will be just different

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:54

help.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:54

Yeah, differently.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:55

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:55

It's that perspective, isn't it?

Rachael Botfield: 00:26:57

Getting that perspective on, on what you're doing.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:01

Yeah.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:02

Well, those tips are really, really great.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:04

And as Ida mentioned earlier, we're going to put.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:06

So a little secret tip in there as well in the show notes, you can

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:10

click on the link and download that resource for you to help you do an

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:15

actionable thing for your business.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:17

So you can move forward in your procrastination.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:21

Also Ida has run some courses or cohorts, don't you, to help people with

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:26

their projects and procrastination.

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:28

So do you want to tell us a little bit about how you, how

Rachael Botfield: 00:27:30

that all works and how it helps?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:33

Mm hmm, sure.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:34

So, I have the anti procrastination program.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:38

It lasts for 13 weeks or 3 months, and it is for people who come with a particular

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:45

project that they want to work on, so something that you're maybe offering.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:48

Putting off, or, you know, it could be something that you really love and you

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:52

want to start, or maybe some part of your business that you're like, oh, I

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:56

really don't want to do admin, but it's also part of my business and I need

Ida Radovanovic: 00:27:59

to so then I connect people to become accountability buddies and they meet

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:05

once a week, but it's not just like that.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:08

People get connected.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:09

Each meeting is very structured, so it's actually a system.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:13

So you can, you need to specify right.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:16

down what you will do until next week.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:19

And that's, so that's always an outcome.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:21

So you know what you're doing next.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:23

And then when you come back, then you are asked, okay, did you do it?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:26

Did you not do it?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:27

What did you learn?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:28

So this is really important that we also reflect on what we, what

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:31

went well, what didn't go well.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:34

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:34

But apart from that, you know there is also this creative element of games.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:39

So that you can talk about your creation.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:41

So in the first one, for example, you talk about why is this even important for you?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:46

And this is a major procrastination tip because when you don't feel like

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:50

doing it, if you know that why, well, you know, like Rachel, you're like,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:53

but now I'm creating this community.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:55

And like, if, if I'm not doing this and all of these people, okay, I

Ida Radovanovic: 00:28:59

don't know if they will be lost, but it's certainly very helpful.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:02

Then this really helps you.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:04

to continue creating.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:06

Then in the second one, we have a game around planning.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:09

Then in the third one, we have a game around what are you good at?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:13

So how can you capitalize on your strengths?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:16

So those are the kind of things that we do in the program.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:19

And we will start in the last week of October.

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:23

So it's coming up soon, and it sounds like a great

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:27

way to move forward with that big project you've been putting off.

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:31

Ida has a little gift for you if you decide to join her

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:34

program.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:35

Yes, the little extra thing that I want to add to support you to stop

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:39

procrastinating is that I'm also including a little discount so that

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:45

you can decide today or tomorrow that if you want to start working on your

Ida Radovanovic: 00:29:51

project you even have that little extra

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:54

benefit.

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:55

Oh, that's really kind Ida.

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:56

So that's for all the listeners.

Rachael Botfield: 00:29:57

If you're interested in taking part in Ida's program, then there will be

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:01

a discount, there'll be a link and all the information you'll be able

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:04

to find in the show notes and all of where you can connect with Ida as well.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:09

And yeah, thank you so much for coming on.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:12

Do you want to just tell us quickly, where do you hang out the most,

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:14

where people can find you the most?

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:16

Well, I am mostly on Instagram, but if you prefer LinkedIn,

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:21

you can also contact me there.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:23

So on Instagram, I share a lot of tips tips like these, tips

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:27

that you can try, simple tips.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:29

So that simple and free tips.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:31

So maybe you want to do that first before joining the program.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:33

Yeah.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:34

It's totally up to you.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:35

As long as you start.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:36

Working on that thing that you're not doing.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:39

Yes, that is absolutely true.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:42

And that's brilliant.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:42

So yeah, we'll pop all your Instagram and links in the show notes, like I just said.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:46

And yeah, thanks so much for coming on and we'll see everybody soon.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:49

Bye.

Ida Radovanovic: 00:30:50

Bye.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:54

Thanks for listening to the show.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:55

If you'd like to connect with me or get in touch, then head on over to my website.

Rachael Botfield: 00:30:59

If you liked the episode, then I'd love it if you could leave me a

Rachael Botfield: 00:31:01

review in your chosen podcast app.

Rachael Botfield: 00:31:03

Your feedback is much appreciated.

Rachael Botfield: 00:31:06

See you next time.