Dear Listener, are you a sensitive, anxious man who struggles to feel confident while dating? You're not alone! In this episode, host and dating coach Josh Van Vliet shares his personal experience looking for love as a highly sensitive and, at times, insecure man. 

Spoiler alert: Josh is now happily married to his co-host, Jessica!

Jessica plumbs Josh’s dating experiences to answer the question, How do you date successfully when you're a deeply feeling, anxious man? 

Josh gets real about his experiences and struggles as a sensitive introvert who doesn’t fit society’s picture of a confident, James-Bond-like man.  He shares stories and strategies, including how proudly owning his temperament helped him find love.

Jessica and Josh also delve into dating while anxiously attached and how being a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) affects relationships. They challenge the stigma and stereotypes and offer a fresh perspective on how sensitivity and anxiety can actually be superpowers in the dating world.

This episode is a treasure trove of personal anecdotes, expert insights, and practical tips for men who feel they're too sensitive for the dating scene.

Key Takeaways

00:00 - Intro

03:52 - What is anxious attachment and high sensitivity?

09:56 - What did your dating and relationship journey look like?

11:30 - How did your anxiety, attachment styles, and sensitivity show up in your dating experience?

15:22 - How did you work with your anxiety in dating?

37:04 - Asking someone out as an anxious, highly sensitive man

52:50 - How did you keep returning to dating?

Resources and links

For full show notes with links, visit relationshipcenter.com/podcast

Dr. Elaine Aaron’s website, including self assessment for high sensitivity

Ep. 4 - How pacing can help you find love that lasts

Someone can be madly in love with you and still not be ready. They can love you in a way you have never been loved and still not join you on the bridge. And whatever their reasons you must leave. Because you never ever have to inspire anyone to meet you on the bridge. You never ever have to convince someone to do the work to be ready. There is more extraordinary love, more love that you have never seen, out here in this wide and wild universe. And there is the love that will be ready. ― Nayyirah Waheed

To get more free dating, relationship, and social anxiety advice, go to relationshipcenter.com/newsletter to sign up for – you guessed it – our newsletter!

Looking for some help finding your person? Visit relationshipcenter.com

Dating as an anxious, highly sensitive man

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Who's able to womanize and go out on lots of dates without getting too entangled. And I've just seen a really deep impact on a lot of the men who come to work with us who are sensitive and who are anxious and anxiously attached and, and really want relationship. So I just wanted to take this opportunity to talk to you, Josh, about your own experience dating.

You are an anxiously attached at times, anxious, highly sensitive man who's now. Happily married, I think. Happily

Kind of weaving in my thoughts, uh, as we go. So, you know, that was sort of a long walk to say. I, I really want to kind of honor and celebrate the experience of, of men who are more anxious or highly sensitive in the dating world. And counter a lot of the dating advice that's out there for men.

Or that we're highly sensitive. And so, uh, yeah, I'm, that's a long walk to say. I'm proud to, to, to acknowledge that I'm, I'm an anxious, highly sensitive man.

So I'm really excited to dig into it with you. Beautiful.

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One is anxious attachment. Okay, and so anxious attachment, just briefly, is when we have a tendency in relationships to fear being left or abandoned, and we sometimes,

Assume that other people are rejecting us when they're not, okay? Some classic signs of this in dating are if they're, uh, If the person you went on a date with is not responding to your text quickly, you get really, really anxious, okay?

I feel overwhelmed and anxious. There must just be something wrong with me, right, is often the place that we go to with it.

So scientists have named the trait that's, uh, underlying high sensitivity, sensory processing sensitivity. And so it's exactly what you're saying. So I'm also an HSP, you and I, we take in more information than moderately sensitive. sensitive or, or lowly sensitive person. And like you said, it's not better or worse, but it can mean that we tend to get more overwhelmed in situations, um, where a lot of the population, uh, 70 to 80 percent seem just fine.

Um, and our world is really built for lower sensitivity people. And so there can also be a lot of messages towards highly sensitive people that, that Like you're saying, something is off or strange, that they're shy, or even that they're introverted. There's actually a lot of extroverted, highly sensitive people.

So that's a little bit of an overview on high sensitivity, and I'll just add that, um, maybe contrary to what some people would assume, half of HSPs are male. And so that's going to be part of the conversation today.

Uh, and so yeah, I would just say that you have a mixed attachment style. Um, yeah, able bodied, tall. I think, I think part of why I'm Having you identify some of these identities is, you know, just to name that it seems like you had the winds of privilege at your back in some ways,

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At the same time was kind of somewhat puzzled as to how to get into relationships. I feel like several of the relationships I had, I didn't feel like I intentionally, you know, I kind of stumbled into them and they were great for that period of my life. And, but it wasn't, I think, until later in life where I was really looking for my, my life partner that I got more serious about what is dating really?

Like, I don't think I'd ever thought about like, I don't even know if I'd actually gone out on a date. I'm sure I'd, you know, gone out to dinner or, you know, whatever, like date activities, but like we are going on a date together out, you know, I'm taking you out to a restaurant or we're going for, you know with, with somebody that I didn't know well, or, you know, that kind of thing.

So it was definitely a whole like learning curve for me around that at that point in my life.

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And I didn't say anything in the moment. I just kind of like let it go. And he's like, well, that sounds like kind of an anxious response. And I'm like, what? What are you talking about? That's just like a normal response. That's how anybody would respond. Come

Uh, so that's definitely one way that it showed up.

Yeah, I can think back to a, to another relationship that I had where I was really I was really fixated on this person being the one for me. And I think in that fixation, I, you know, I think that that fixation was probably a mix of things. Some of it like a fantasy about who this person was and who we were together.

Some of it like anxiety, right? Like not wanting to be left, like so wanting it to be. it and wanting that secure, like, partner, base, like, that, that, that teammate and also, like, the anxiety that I'm not going to find that person. If this isn't it, right, this is, like, the closest I've gotten

I think it's the underlying worry, right? That kind of self judgment or, or like low self esteem. And so, you know, staying in something and I think this is true in, in multiple relationships that I was in, staying in something longer than I should have

Both anxious attachment and avoidant attachment and disorganized attachment for that matter all include a lot of fear and a lot of avoidance. Mm hmm. Uh, in addition to, in some cases, kind of running towards conflict in a, in a way that's not great.

It's going to be met with rejection on some

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And you know, I think, I had a moment of seeing, oh, I've done this at times. I've been like trying to like contort myself or like, you know, figure out how to fit myself into this relationship or what this person seems to want or what I think this person wants rather than, oh, the person that the person that I really want to be with in my heart is someone who wants to be with me.

exactly as I am,

Who's going to be like, .

you're anxious. You're highly sensitive. Awesome. I love that. I'm in. And also, you know, not just that I have some other qualities too, but, but they're not gonna, they're not going to be phased by that part of me

I, but pacing,

I wasn't fuzzy about that. It wasn't like, well, maybe we'll just date and see what happens. It was like, no, I'm looking for my life partner. And alsolet's take it slow. Who's like, I'm looking for somebody who's looking for a partnership and is willing to take it slow to start. And that was kind of the best words I had for it at the time. And I, I got very lucky when I met you because you had more, I think from your experience had more thought out, what does it look like to pace well? And kind of, we got to do that dance together and figure out what the pacing was that worked for both of us in our early relationship. So I think that made a huge difference.

But yeah, I think that's, that's kind of what's coming up first. And I'm sure there are other answers as well. It's almost hard to like pull out what are the different, uh, what are the different pieces? Cause there was so much in there that I have done over the years.

Like, I was just like, you know, being very direct about I'm anxious right now, basically. And I think even doing that, like having that level of Awareness and ability to name that even though it was uncomfortable was helpful for me, was, allowed me to like, I'm, I'm present now. I'm anxious and I'm fully present because I'm not trying to suppress or hide or, or get rid of the anxiety.

I'm just letting it be there.

And so it was helpful for me to know, oh, that look on your face is, is fear or is, is uncertainty. Yeah.

So it was really, it was soothing and calming for me, and it also allowed me to say, Oh, I know. I know how to do this.

I also heard in there. Piecing, and we'll link to the piecing episode that we recorded Which is huge in terms of, I think of pacing as, as a way to manage anxiety, actually.

In a clear way, right.

And what I hear in there is you were given a, a really like secure attachment, priming.

Yep.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm blessed to know a lot of wonderful couples. And yeah, I think having, like, having that as a guiding light, like, oh yeah, this is one of the key elements that the couples I admire have. And that's part of their magic that, that I'm looking for, is this, is the way that they're meeting each other in this, in this way.

Both are really valuable, but I think some people respond to one better than the other. And so I'm just hearing in there that ethos of having that vision and how that really led you forward into what could be.

And I think maybe coaching gave me an on ramp to that to where I can see now much more clearly like, oh yeah, this, this thing from way back then, I see how that is showing up right now in this moment and it's impacting how I engage with this relationship or how I, you know, hold back or get anxious about sharing when I'm upset about something or whatever it is.

So I think I, I, I've gotten a lot more from that that lens now, but, but I think you're absolutely right. Like knowing where I was headed, where I wanted to go was so important for me to kind of pull me forward to even be interested in doing the rest of the work around that. Yeah,

Were there any other turning points for you?

I feel like I have almost like these different parts sometimes. One that feels very confident and kind of when I'm really like in myself and this, I think I've early in life, this came out most when I was dancing and a lot of social partner dancing earlier in life. And that was a way that I just like, I felt like me. Some of the time and then I felt very anxious some of the other time. But, you know, it was one of the ways that I tapped into that sense of feeling good, feeling confident, feeling like in my body, feeling just connected with who I am.

I do not want to be a man who causes harm.

I love that part of myself. I honor that. And also, there were ways in which I overcorrected. That I went so far from, I'm going to stay so far away from doing anything that could possibly cause harm, that I wasn't even expressing interest when, you know, the other person wanted me to probably, you know, I'm sure there were moments earlier in my life where someone probably was interested in me.

And I was so overly respectful that

Uh, and so

And

but bringing it up,

I can tell this person. really like you. I think you're pretty great.

It's like, oh, I, yeah, I'm like, I want to say something, but I can't tell if this person's vibing with me. I can't tell if they like me. And so I'm just going to not, right. And so I, I know there were a number of dates that I went on that may have led to something more if I had been more, uh, clear and expressing my interest, but didn't ultimately.

And so learning to be like, hey,

And and, Expressing it directly, right? Without being like,

Yes or no is welcome, yes, no, maybe, you know, all of that's welcome, and it's important to me to let you know this. I think there's, it's sexy, it's like, it's attractive, uh, when we can do that, and, and then, you know, opens up possibilities for some wonderful experiences.

You were more deeply affected. And

You went to workshops, uh, knowing you, I'm guessing you probably talked to people about it, friends, coaches, and you were willing to be uncomfortable and to challenge that, that growing edge and to connect with your own desire. I think that, like, Like you said, that's the first step and I think a lot of men that we work with who end up in the quote unquote friend zone over and over again, they very often are dissociated from their own desires when with other people.

Like they're only able to maybe access it on their own, um, because it's so terrifying because they've seen that there are men in the world who when they connect to their desire then jump to harm. Yeah. So I love what you laid out there. It's first reconnecting with yourself and second, learning how to communicate that in a way that is, uh, empowered while also leaving space for the other person to say No,

you know, I think there were, there were dates that I had also where I was like,

And it's like, yeah.

It's like an emotion. It comes and goes, if you study Emily Nagoski's brilliant work around how desire works, dual control model, there are things that push on our brakes that kind of turn, turn it off. There are things that push on the accelerator that turn us on and that not being attracted or not Not even, maybe not even not, not being attracted, but like not wanting sex in a given moment is not also an indicator that this relationship is doomed or, you know, it's just like, okay, great.

And if we're talking about that vision that you described that you learned from Zo of, you know, your partner being able to meet you wherever you are, that's a very humanizing stance, right? And so I just, yeah, appreciate what you're saying. And I think it goes right to the heart of secure functioning and healthy relating.

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And there's like a grocery store in San Francisco that's known for lots of pickups. And you said something along the lines of like, I would never. So tell

pick people up, and that's a thing that apparently some people do. I don't think I want to do that. And that's okay. And yeah, so I, to get back to your question, there are, I think, a couple of reasons why I said so emphatically, I would never do that at a grocery store. I think one is what we were talking about a little bit earlier of like, this feeling like, I do not want to intrude on some woman's space that I do not know who's maybe just trying to get her.

I don't know if you're interested in getting picked up, you know, I and I don't say all that to say it's like a bad thing to do, right? It's just for my temperament. It was just like, not, it's not the right And I really thrived in contexts as we were talking about, either dating apps where the context is really clear, right?

We're all kind of on this app. Even being on this app sort of expresses that we're interested in something romantically most of the time. And then obviously what you're sharing your profile is even more like, you know, Here's what I'm looking for. Uh, so it's like this very clear context. That worked really well for me.

But outside of that, I think like meeting people in person and getting a chance to get to know them over time was a better context for me also, right? Whether it was dancing or going to a class together or some kind of workshop or like meeting people socially at a gathering or party, kind of who are in my community of friends, whatever it is, that there's this better way to organically build a connection, build, you know, kind of explore something that tended to work better for me.

I just was never interested in like pushing myself to get over the anxiety that would come up about approaching somebody cold at a grocery store or a bar or restaurant. It was like, that feels really uncomfortable doesn't feel worth it and Yeah, I'm just, I'm just going to put my energy other places.

Yeah.

And it was like pretty clear with that question, trying to meet somebody, trying to pick somebody up at a bar, that is so far from my preferred environment, from, that's going to bring up such a high level of anxiety for me, that I am not going to be me in that moment. And so even if I were to have met you in a bar and tried to pick you up, It probably, you probably wouldn't have recognized me, you know, uh, I probably would have been so anxious or so uncomfortable that it would have, it wouldn't, it wouldn't have been like, oh, here's a connection.

It was like, what's happening right now? This is, um, and so finding the environments for me, it was like, okay, great. I'm great one on one with people. Uh, I can, pretty well like build a connection or explore a connection with somebody on a date where we've met on an, you know, OkCupid or online, you know, whatever dating app.

And, um, that's a context that I can more reliably show up as who I am, uh, than at a bar.

That's a huge difference.

welcome.

this piece that we've been talking about throughout of, you know, being anxious, anxiously attached, or highly sensitive. That comes with stigma, and a lot of men can feel self conscious even identifying that way. I think of the men that we've worked with who feel quote unquote needy.

And how, and, and, you know, how did you, because I'm hearing the thread through your story, is that you did learn how to own. those different parts of your temperament, in a way that was self loving rather than self hating and to to operate from that place, which was something that really attracted me to you.

You know, seeing that, you know, I have similar identities, anxious, anxiously attached, highly sensitive and seeing that you could claim those in a way that was self loving told me that you could, you could love me in those places as well. So I'm just wondering about, like, is there anything more to name in terms of what allowed you to embrace those parts of yourself?

It was something else happening there. And, know, I think that's it was probably in those attractions that I felt most insecure, right? That I felt most like this part of myself. is not, I don't even know if it was true, right? I think that's part of it. Like, I don't even know if it was true for those people, but it brought up the most insecurity.

Like, oh, they, they're not going to be attracted to a guy who's anxious, right? Like I would really have to be like a cool kid to, you know, I gotta be that calm, confident James Bond. Uh, And I think it kind of goes along with what we've been talking about already of recognizing the person who I want to be with wants to be with me as I am.

And that it's true. Some people won't be attracted to that.

Because, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like I was ever certain that I was going to find my person. It wasn't like I was ever like, I have done all my healing and now it's just a matter of time before I meet the person because I'm, Perfectly healed and evolved and have no more anxiety and it's fine.

Let's go. No, you know, I'm still anxious. That hasn't changed, right? Like I still have anxiety but I think hold in those moments of worrying that Someone is not going to want to be with me because of my anxiety or my depression or my fill in the blank, you know, judgment of myself for not meeting the stereotypical definition of masculinity in America.

Holding on to the person who wants, that I want to be with, wants to be with me. And if that's not this person, good. Like, let's, I'm glad that I'm clear now, right? Like, let me be grateful for, they have demonstrated to me that they are not my person sooner rather than later so that I can go out and find my person and not, uh, not get too caught up in why I'm not their person.

And so. Yeah, I think I just want to name that because it's

Through that process just so you if you're if you're feeling that you know, you're not alone and that you know There is possibility. There is another side to that

There's just this sort of like, long standing.

And difficult things impact us really deeply. So we can go to extremes with our

You still kept getting back up.

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That through like deep, deep relationship with, with a primary partner, with, with someone that we can just know each other in such an incredible way and have each other's back and support each other and like learn together and heal together and like explore the world together that know, and it was not, I did not find it easy to stay in touch with that vision.

You know, like I said, there were moments I got knocked out and I was out for a while, right? Which I think was appropriate. I think it's totally appropriate to take breaks, to take time to heal. Yeah, I think that's part of the culture of like, we need to push through and just like get up and like not, and it's like, no, you got, you got some feelings to feel like you've got some grieving to do.

You know, I don't think I would be here where I am now if I hadn't. Taken that time even as scary as it can be

Right? Like, getting to interact with dating as a chance to, like, practice being kind. Right? I mean, that sounds so basic on some level, but like, there's so many things that come up within us that would have us not be kind. Not because we don't want to be, but because we're scared or because we're, you know, triggered or upset or, or just not, you know, paying attention.

Right? Uh, you know, opportunity to be kind. Loving, you know, whether or not you go on another date with the person in front of you what does it mean to be loving in that moment with them? at the stage of dating you're at, right?

I don't mean like, pretending like you're in a long term relationship, but like being loving on a first date, you know? Uh, what does it mean to be playful? You know, whatever the qualities are that light your heart up, whatever the things that bring you alive, but like, what an incredible opportunity if, if we want to, to practice, to, and, and to experience also the, The joy that comes with demonstrating those qualities, even and, and maybe especially when things don't turn out the way we want them to.

The way a value

Yeah. I think it's a beautiful thing and there is a partner, I believe at least, there's a partner out there who will be delighted to benefit from your particular mix of, uh, who you are and what you have to bring into a relationship. Mm hmm. Mm

well, that's all for today. You can find the show notes with links to all the resources we mentioned in the episode at RelationshipCenter. com slash podcast.

I think we, I think we stopped recording.