In part one of episode five Rory and Greg interview Tom Schlatter of Saetia, You & I, SpiritKiller, and The Assistant.

Rory starts things off by discussing the impact You & I had on his relationship with hardcore with a particular focus on his experience traveling to see their final show.

Tom talks about how punk rock influenced his career trajectory in the IT field, eventually leading him to seek meaningful work by managing technology in the public library setting. Greg and Tom discuss their experiences working in public libraries, how the current social and political climate is impacting libraries, and how punk rock and early 2000's message board culture prepared them for the 2020's culture wars.

Rory and Tom spend time discussing how they met through Alone Records, the record label their previous bands Standfast and The Assistant were affiliated with. The discussion includes how hardcore informed their response to trauma and setbacks in life.

The three also talk about the changing demographics within hardcore punk, growing older and aging in the a vegan/punk/hardcore community, and the cyclical nature of the rise and fall of popularity in sub-genres of hardcore punk. Tom discusses how the Saetia reunion shows have helped raise funds for various nonprofit organizations. Charles Cure from SpiritKiller also makes a cameo appearance in this episode.

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Before I met Tom, I went down to the last you and I show in.

Oh, yeah.

It was.

No, it was May of 99.

99.

Okay.

So there was a.

That, like, before that I found out about you and I, and I fell in love.

And so.

So some friends and I drove down to the last you and I show in a New Brunswick basement.

Crowded.

New Brunswick basement.

Insanely crowded.

That was the last Seisha played, and that was the last time I.

First and last time I've seen Seisha, to be honest.

And those three new songs are great.

I really enjoyed them.

But that was, like, such a really cool experience for me to see other folks be able to express themselves in a way that they weren't doing up here, you know, just.

Just.

And being supported, like, you know, just like folks crying and just being, like, communicating feelings in a way that people weren't doing up here in the expressive way that they were.

It was more of, like, the moshing in those things.

So, you know, that impacted me a lot.

Imprinted a lot of, like, just the capability to do that.

There was, like, not a lot of being vulnerable publicly and hardcore during that time.

And when a band did it, you notice it a lot, I thought.

Yeah, absolutely.

No, no, no.

It was very well put.

Yeah.

I mean, I tease my friends from the Albany area, but, like, I had never played Troy or Albany when we had played Rochester and Syracuse and stuff.

But, like, it was like, I teased them, like, I guess, like, Screamo never really made it up here, huh?

Like, because it's like, I would talk to people and they.

I'd be like.

Like, trying to start a band.

And I'd be like, well, I've been in this band and that band.

And they'd be like, I've never.

Never heard of any of these, you know, like.

And the large.

It was like Mashi.

Hardcore was like, a big thing up there.

And.

And.

And we.

I was like, huh?

Side of hardcore has been, like, not presented to these people at all.

And I wonder if, like, you know, it just hadn't made it up here yet.

You know what I mean?

It's similar, ish, you know, because I feel like Rochester has always been that weird section in between Buffalo and Syracuse, like, having those, like, entities.

And then Rochester became this at that time.

But even a little before that, there was, like, more of an artistic DC influence.

Yeah, okay.

You know, so there were earlier bands, like Hunger Artists, which is a very earlier hardcore band.

Now, if you go back and look at them and listen to Them you're like, oh, these folks were like swizz influenced and had that.

That inspiration and were more musical.

And then you had a band called foundation, which was similar and had that influence as well.

And then, you know, we unintentionally came along too and had that for whatever perspective and, and were messy along the way, but had, you know, we didn't need to be Buffalo, we didn't need to be Syracuse, which had those defined, you know, like influences and infrastructures.

We kind of did our own thing and we were a spot on tour for the Majority Rules and page 99s and the assistants and these bands that didn't necessarily always hit Buffalo or Syracuse or Albany.

But you know, we were a place that maybe was safer to express themselves in those way because we didn't have those other things.

But there was.

The vehicle was always like a message and community based thing.

And I love that it still exists in some manner.

And I cannot not still say something when I play a show.

Like, it's just in me to talk about what I wrote about what you felt.

So you have to say it.

You know, I mean, I think like the best type of hardcore music comes from like an authentic place, unfortunately, like really being hurt, really being sad, and really like being able to admit it to yourself first and then show it to other people.

It's not easy to do.

And like scenes like that have that type of music.

And I like feel.

Feel like in all those places you guys were mentioning, they're always like boiling under the surface a little bit, right?

Because it's hard to get up in the club where the house music is like slipknot and shit, and then be like, this is my story of real pain.

But like in someone's fucking basement where you're just like right up next to everybody, right?

Or like at the social justice center or whatever, you can just be like, yo, this is me being real amongst my friends.

And maybe some people I don't know.

And we're just all gonna have like this communal healing public freak out for a minute.

And like that to me is the best thing about it.

That's.

Yeah, that's the thing that like, again, I've said this a couple times before, I don't think on this podcast, but there's one of the.

One of the historical figures I like a lot is Carl Jung.

And there's this excerpt I've seen of him talking about how like when he traveled to Africa for the first time to, you know, see the way people were living there and And.

And from a place of appreciation, study their culture.

You know, not like, in a colonialist way, but, like, really, you know, what do these people believe and what is the utility of the belief to the believers?

He talked about how there was some sort of, like, music and dance ritual that they were doing where, like, everyone in the village just got whipped into a frenzy.

And they were dancing and Ch was drumming, and he was terrified.

And the way he.

And I'm paraphrasing what he said was, you know, I.

I knew that if I joined them, I would not go back.

And to me, that was.

That's hardcore.

Like, that's the pylon.

That's the.

You know, once you.

300 people singing along at the last Bane show or something, and they're all sweaty and it's all just this writhing mass of.

Of humanity, and they all kind of hurt in ways that are unique to them, but it's all the same.

And they're all kind of getting the same thing out of it.

So that.

That, to me, is the foundational appeal of hardcore.

It gets to that same thing that was going on in whatever village Carl Young was in in Africa.

And I think, you know, I'm thinking about what you were saying, Rory, you know, about, you know, like, not every city has this, you know, the bands with these qualities in it.

I like.

Like, there's two kinds of hardcore for me.

There's the hardcore bands where I'm like, all right, you know, Hate Breed or Terror is putting out some new songs.

I know what I'm getting.

I know how it's gonna sound.

I'm gonna love it.

There's no question in my mind.

Smash.

Yeah.

And it serves its purpose at certain points in time.

But then there's hardcore bands.

Then there's hardcore bands.

So they put out a new album.

I'm like, I don't even need to listen to it.

I'm reading the lyrics first, and I'm finding the song with the lyrics.

Or I'm like, all right, this is it.

This is speaking to something in me that is unresolved.

That's going to be the song I listen to.

I listen to first.

And sometimes Terror, I guess, maybe is that band for me, but.

And I think, you know, and I'm not.

I haven't listened to every band that ever was, but you go back far enough, and I feel like Unbroken was one of the first bands that really put it out there in a really super vulnerable way.

And I'm so grateful.

Like, I was obviously not around for Unbroken.

When they were in their heyday.

Again, they're one of those bands that I mentioned earlier is, like, playing fests now.

And I'm grateful that they are, because they were doing that at a point in time where it, like, it's kind of cool now to do it at certain places and shows.

It's not.

But they were doing it at a time where it did not seem like there was anyone else really putting themselves out there in such a vulnerable way.

So important.

They were so important.

I mean, that's going back to playing the Metro at Burning Fight Festival, like, able to see one of those shows, Unbroken shows, period.

At a time when, like, I came into hardcore and I was like, just missed them.

Never thought they would reunions were ever going to be a thing.

But then seeing them and it was like.

It was what you explained.

It was like people were allowed to be emotional.

Yeah.

And it was like they were the band that it was also.

All the tougher and hard guys were.

It was okay for them to be emotional, too, watching them.

Yeah.

Like, they had the.

They have the, like, the recipe for everybody.

I mean, I unprofit, like, life, love, regret.

Like, for me, like, as a kid, I remember, like, when we were starting, you and I, it was like, all right.

I like Indian Summer and Mineral, and I like Unbroken.

And, like, we're gonna put these two bands together and, like, that's.

That's gonna be our band.

And like.

Like, I don't know, is like, that was the influence of.

Of.

Of, like, for me.

What?

What?

Like, when you walked into that basement for the Last Human.

I show.

And I now that.

Now that you put it into context, because I remember that show people between songs, taking the mic from us and talking about stuff or talking about what the band meant to them or, like, for you, that must have been a real Carl Young experience to just be like, wait, there's, like, people in the audience who aren't in the band who are, like, getting the mic and talking now and then, like, there's, like, people crying on the.

Like.

But it's like, you know, I remember seeing pictures of Unbroken in zines and, like, you know.

Know Eric Allen's on the floor, like, crying.

And I just remember just being like, wow, that's like, there's.

There's something, like, so liberating about that moment.

You know what I mean?

And, like, yeah, like, I like when historically you can look at a moment where a band like Unbroken can even chip away the facade of even, like, the toughest dude, you know, what I mean, so they are that band, for sure.

Absolutely.

So, Tom.

Yeah.

Thank you.

First of all, thank.

Thank you for, you know, stepping into this conversation.

Something that I like to do is, you know, introduce yourself as if this is your high school reunion.

Okay.

I'm not sure if you guys do this, but if I was at a high school reunion, I probably would stay as normie as possible, just because, like, you know, I would.

You know, I would just say, like, yeah, I work at a library, and I'm married, and I got two dogs and two cats, and I would just end it there, keep it.

I would not say I play in a band.

I would not say I'm vegan.

I would not say, you know, I would not say any of these things.

Things, because that just evokes, like, conversation that you're going to do a lot of explaining that you're.

That was probably going to be exhausting.

And.

And, yeah, so I would.

I would probably stay pretty baseline.

I don't know.

And hardcore is more, like, in the mainstream now.

Veganism was more in the mainstream.

It's not weird.

Like, sobriety is not a weird thing.

It's more popular than ever.

Yes.

You see a lot of celebrities talking about sobriety now.

Even though it's, like, in.

It seems like these things are norm now, still, like, to.

You know, if I just wouldn't want to open those doors to, like, at a high school reunion, I would just be like, yeah, I bought a house in Troy, New York, and I live with my wife and my two dogs and my two cats, and I'm on my lawn.

You know, I would just keep it like that, probably.

I get that because, like, a couple jobs ago, I had it in my mind where I'm like, all right, I'm in the leadership role now.

I want people to be able to, like, project a sense of confidence onto me.

And in order to do that, I need to, like, be as blank a slate as possible.

And I wanted to try to not, like, get into the whole veganism thing, because this was, like, you know, 15 years ago, and it was slightly different, although it was becoming more mainstream.

And I just thought, like, oh, they're gonna think I'm judging them if they find out I'm vegan.

And so I just wouldn't mention it.

But then, like, you run into the problem where, like, people are making you all sorts of food, and it's like, well, that arrogant guy Greg is Never eating any of our food.

He's too good for.

I get it.

Yeah, take that strategy at the high school reunion.

But definitely not in a workplace where you guys show up five days a week.

That's hard to pull off.

So I think the one thing about working in a library was, you know, I think like, especially, you know, this is all gonna be geographically and regionally dependent, but at least where, you know, where I am in upstate New York, it was like, if you're working at a library, you're.

You're probably open to like some perspectives, you know what I mean?

And so that was.

The library was the first job where I was like, quote unquote out pretty quickly about like being vegan and about being in a band.

Because it was like, you know, I was, I was like, hey, my band's going to Europe.

Can I take two weeks off?

My boss was like, that's awesome.

You're in a man.

Wow.

You're going to Europe for two weeks.

That's great.

Like, she was just like totally stoked on it.

And like, it's been the first job where it's like, I could be open about those things.

And like now I've been at this job for like 10 years now.

And now when there's a staff meeting, there's like vegan cheesecake at the staff meeting and like stuff like that.

That, yeah, I never would have had that at like another job.

Well, we, we have that at our library too.

Like, there's a.

I'm like, not the only vegan on staff either.

I'm also not the only person who's like, heard of hardcore.

Okay.

Like, we got a guy who wears a black flag shirt sometimes.

Okay.

You know, so it, it feels like the right place for me.

But the strategy I took that I mentioned earlier was like a total mistake.

Like, now that I'm in, I like switched a couple jobs and now I'm like, you know, I'm just going to be like a fully integrated person.

I'm not going to like keep a portion of myself siloed off over there.

And then when I go to work or shows, I'm gonna like pretend like I don't have a job.

Which, you know, in some ways it can seem kind of traditional.

I mean, you're definitely right that libraries are a place that people are open to new ideas.

So there is like kind of a built in level of acceptance.

I'm curious too.

Since you jumped right into the library thing and you've been there 10 years now, my understanding is you do like it type work in a library.

What did you do before that?

Were you always in it as far as like professional gigs go when you weren't touring?

Yeah, so I, you know, I had like started playing in bands like Fairly early, like 15, 16 years old and touring and, and it was sort of like in mid, mid mid 90s I guess.

And you know, just like high school like once, once I got a taste of like playing shows and touring and stuff like that.

And it was like showing up for high school just seemed like a joke, you know, because it was like I was getting all this education from hardcore and punk.

I was getting exposure to people outside of my white middle class suburb.

So people and perspectives that just seemed like way bigger than what my high school was prioritizing.

And so like for me like high school was just such a second thought, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't really, I was doing enough to get by.

But my passion was like what was happening community wise and education wise out there.

You know, things weren't good at home.

So it's like finding this built in community and family through that as well.

And so like I just, I started like, like focusing on music like big time and not really thinking about like what am I gonna do to earn money or what am I gonna do as a career.

I had no.

And I knew and at that time too, to set the context in the 90s, it's like if you're in a hardcore band, you're not like, hey, let's try and do this as a career.

That's, that was like a huge shunned upon thing, you know what I mean?

At that point, the whole sellout yes thing was such a conversation.

Exactly.

And so like it was like, okay, like I'm gonna play in bands and I'm gonna tour and I'm gonna do all this stuff.

But like, I don't know how I, I've not put anything together for like how I would survive or feed myself.

And I was in a family where we were a working class family.

And like if I was to say like, hey, I want to go to school for music, my parents would have probably just laughed out loud and been like, yeah, and then you'll be broke for the rest of your life.

You know, like there wasn't like, if you had to have, you had to present a practical career path.

And for a lot of the people like in my like middle class suburb, they were all going to like four year schools or going to the community college which was in our town.

And then going to a four year school.

And so like I took the path of least resistance and was like, cool, I'll cruise through high school and I'll go to community for the however long I have to go.

But the priority was always like, what's the next show I'm playing?

What's the next record we're writing?

But you know, like, what tour are we going on?

Like it was like.

So I first semester at community college, I took.

They didn't have like a computer science program at that time, right?

Yeah, because it was the 90s, it was just like they didn't have that and.

But they had a basic programming course and I took that my first semester.

And it was one of these things where the class was like two hours long.

Professor would talk about a concept for like a half hour and then be like, okay, I need you to write three programs.

You have an hour and a half, bring them up when you're done.

And like 20 minutes I'd be like, okay, I'm done.

And I bring the thing up and like professor would kind of stare at me and be like.

And he'd like check over everything and be like, oh yeah, I guess you're done.

And by like, by like the fourth class of me like finishing these programs and like really fast.

He was like, why are, like why are you doing this?

Like why don't you just go to school for this at like a real school?

And I was like, because, because I, I never, I didn't know this was a thing, you know, I didn't know this was a thing I was good at.

I didn't know that this was like, I had no idea.

So like.

Yeah, so that I think getting into it was just by virtue of the fact that it just came naturally to me.

And this professor was like, hey, you're good at this, you should go do this.

And at that point in the 90s, it was like if you had a computer science degree, people were like writing you checks.

Yeah.

Because it was the 90s, so.

But being in punk rock and hardcore, it's like you had this like, I'm not gonna work for the man nine to five and give my life away.

You know, you had that mentality.

So it was like, what are your choices then?

Your choices are non profit education.

Like if I'm gonna do it, I guess I'll do it in that capacity.

And so yeah, it was always it with within education or non profit from that point.

So my question, do you remember that professor?

I do.

I don't Remember his name.

He had, like.

He was the quintessential 90s computer science professor with, like, like, crazy frizzy gray hair.

And his eyes were always like a Doc Brown.

That's exactly who I started imagining if.

Like, we did a movie about my life, it would be Christopher Lloyd playing this guy, just being like, why have you finished this so fast?

Yeah, like, yeah, it was great.

So, yeah, yeah, that was it.

Well, it's funny, cuz, like, first of all, it must be cool to you to have something so lucrative come so naturally and to be good at it.

It's only lucrative if, like, you go into the private sector.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're working for, like, a school district or nonprofit, they're like, we can't pay you that much, but you're like, I could wake up in the morning.

And I feel good.

Yeah, I feel good.

I took the same track as you.

I went to community college, and the only thing I was good at was bullshitting in English literature papers.

So I'm like, all right, I guess that's what I'm majoring in.

And, you know, my parents were, like, fine with it because they're like, hey, just get a degree, Something will happen.

So there was, like, a terrible job market and who hires English literature majors?

But it's nice to know that I at least wound up in the same field as someone who, like, had their shit together in a capacity that has some degree of transferability.

We all get those, you know, it's just.

We take different roads.

It's really.

So it's interesting, though, like, getting into it in that computer world at, like, the inception kind of inception point and really not having a roadmap.

Yeah.

And you're just kind of, like, following, like, what feels good, what moves along with allowing you to do hardcore punk and pay the bills, essentially.

You know, I think that's how a lot of us moved at that time.

Like, what job can afford me to live a life that I feel good about in the sense of allowing me to do hardcore punk?

Yeah.

Like, living, breathing and doing it for so long.

There was a lot of, like, you know, I.

I remember.

I.

So I.

I was working for a nonprofit, and then they moved to Phoenix, Arizona.

And this was before remote.

Remote work and VPNs were, like, a thing that we could do, you know, and, like, so I had to get another job.

And, like, I did get a job with a startup, but they were like, private.

Private sector.

And I worked there for Nine months before, I was like, I can't do this anymore.

The sort of, like, thing about, like, private sector was just like, man, like, these guys are just like, they.

There's no happiness to, like, what's happening here.

And I.

I remember I was making, like, good amount of money, and I was paying off, like, loans and really quickly, and I was like, yeah, it's great, because at the time I was living in New Brunswick, and it was $300 a month.

You know, it was like, so.

But like, I was like, all right, when's our next tour?

I'll work the shop until we go on tour next.

And I worked that job for nine months and was like, bam, out.

You know?

So, yeah, it was.

I had my taste of the private sector.

Right.

Immediately got, like, being in that capacity of touring and.

And still working in that field.

Did you come across anyone else that was doing kind of similar stuff?

Not.

Not really, no.

A lot of people were getting into education because it granted you, like, your summers and your holidays off and stuff.

And so I was meeting a lot of people that are doing that.

And eventually I got a job with the board of education in my town, and I had all of July and, like, half of August, and so I worked at that job for, like, five years.

And going on tour every year for, like, a month and a half, roughly.

I would do that.

I would plan it.

I finish my last day and the next day leave for tour.

And it was just like every year for that five years of going on tour.

Like, so.

Wild cycle.

Yeah, for sure.

It's just so interesting how.

I mean, growing up in hardcore and punk, we didn't talk about careers no much.

No.

You know, we talked about a lot of other things, but.

But, like, a career path to feel good about or, like, what we were doing to sustain ourselves.

It's just interesting to now think back about it.

Yeah, partially.

I'm.

I'm.

Part of me thinks, like, I didn't think that far ahead because, like, it's like, who really thinks, like, you're still gonna be around at that point or, like.

Or, you know, like, you.

You just don't even have, like, the wherewithal to.

To sort of plan that far in advance.

You know what I mean?

Like, now I'm, like, looking at my retirement account once in a while.

I have multiple friends who are like, first of all, every library director I know is like, I'm retiring at 55.

Like, no one's.

No one is making it to 65 right now.

That's no one's plan.

But I have, like, multiple friends that I consider to be within my, like, peer cohort that are like, all right, nine more years, 12 more years.

I'm like, okay, this is going to happen.

I mean, if I don't die first, I'll get old.

But the thing that you mentioned that there wasn't, like, a lot of talk about careers and career paths and what are you going to do to, like, make money, you know, if.

If you don't happen to be in, I don't know, like, Thursday or something, you know, I don't know.

They hit it for a while.

I'm not disrespecting Thursday.

Well, Tom was on a Thursday record.

I know, I know, I know.

You could probably get a lot of sweet residuals from that, right?

I mean, I get guest list, did whatever they played.

There you go.

Residual.

That's what you got to do.

No, I have a friend who's on Metal Blade, and, like, once a year he gets a check for, like, 39 cents.

And I don't even think it's worth cashing.

I would just frame it or something, but there.

There was, like, nobody around when I was 19 that was, you know, much older than 25.

Sure.

And I've noticed, you know, over the last 20, 25 years, more and more older folks are sticking around or dipping back in periodically.

And I kind of like it because I'm old now.

I have, you know, I can meet other old people who like the same kind of music.

But I think I would have benefited from that kind of relationship with the older cohort of hardcore, especially when I'm thinking about, like, careers, because I did happen to stumble into something that I do think is very rewarding and is, like, objectively beneficial to the people I serve.

But it was a struggle for a while because I felt like I had to go do something to make a certain amount of money.

And, you know, you can make money selling timeshares or cars to people that they don't really need.

But other than teaching and nursing, I, like, didn't have any idea, like, how do I do something that both scratches my itch with technology and education, but isn't tying me to a classroom, which wasn't appealing to me personally.

Sure.

It's interesting, too, because I think the.

The connection is taking so much from hardcore and punk and learning in those circles and getting us outside of spaces of the normalcy that we were in, and allowing us to hear viewpoints and witness viewpoints and communicate with others with different perspectives allowed us to Grow and want us to have a reach that was not so isolating and so career path driven.

And you know, like, for me, like, I went to community college, but same thing was like, I don't, I'm doing this because I don't know what else.

All my friends went to college.

Most of them went for education to be teachers.

Most of them aren't teachers right now in the capacity of school.

So like it was very interesting.

It's like, I'm doing this, but I don't care about this.

I'm building my life around punk and hardcore touring bands, you know.

You know, we have many of the same experience, but I never like found the thing that I really was excited about until I was in my like late 20s, randomly, you know, and I never discovered or really came across people that talked about an exciting career path in hardcore and punk.

Like, it just wasn't talked about much.

I think like, you know, coming up in the mid-90s into hardcore and punk, it's like at that point hardcore is, you know, if I, if I'm, you know, I'm sure there's some purists there that can debate this, but it's like what, minor threats, like 84, something like that.

It's like hardcore is 10 years old.

So it's like, you know, you're not really going to get this like 50 year old old head who's like, hey, like, let's take the tools.

We like.

So I feel like maybe like we're kind of, you know, there's people older than us obviously, but like we are kind of at this frontier right now where it's like there are people at shows who you know, are half my age and like, and I think when I was a kid, like 18, going to shows, if you saw somebody over 25, it was like, whoa, that guy's old, you know, like, or that person's old.

But like now it's like I stand next to an 18 year old at like a show and we both rock out to same band, you know what I mean?

And like that's new ground for me at least.

You know what I mean?

I think for the younger generation now, it's like they're not weirded out by it, you know, at least I don't think they are.

Like not the perspective is like, we don't feel that.

Yeah.

You know, which is, which is amazing.

Yes.

And for me, being in the rooms is like, I'm just happy to be here.

Yes.

I mean there's like based on, I realized like what like, how short sighted I was as an 18 year old, being like, wow, that 25 year old.

Like, that guy's all like, I was so short sighted about that.

You know what I mean?

Like, I.

So, so dumb.

You know?

Like, interesting.

So I'm, I'm.

Yeah, I feel like we are, we're kind of out of like a, a new frontier here of like, we're punks and we're getting old, you know, and, and, and we're figuring out how to do that.

Common Thread is co hosted by Greg Benoit and Rory Van Grohl, with creative support from Rob Antonucci.

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