Embracing creativity and storytelling can help us navigate through uncertain times and find hope and connection. Through writing and sharing our thoughts and experiences, we can unlock new perspectives, gain a better understanding of ourselves and the world, and contribute to a more positive future.

This is the second of a two-part conversation with writer, poet, and storyteller, Richard Wain, who’s recently released a book of poetry, Beyond the Brink is the Beginning.

Richard's writing explores the concept of "thrutopia": a vision for a better future. He’s part of a community of writers and thinkers who are committed to weaving new stories into culture and envisioning a world that future generations can be proud of.

Richard and Ben’s conversation offers a reminder of the power of art and the importance of paying attention to the beauty in the world, recognising our interconnectedness, and looking beyond ourselves to make a meaningful impact.

Links

• Other episodes of Peripheral Thinking
• Crafting a story for a world worth leaving to our children – Episode 27 (part 1 of this conversation)
• The caterpillar's poetry: a tale of transformation and creative expression – Episode 17 with Richard Wain
• The Web of Meaning – Episode 1 with Jeremy Lent
• Beyond the Brink is the Beginning – Richard’s book of poetry

Hello.

Welcome to Peripheral Thinking.

My series of conversations with, uh, artists, activists, advisors,

entrepreneurs, people all working on ideas, championing ideas on

the margins, on the periphery, because the ideas which will shape

and inform the mainstream tomorrow are hiding there on those margins.

Today in this conversation is part two of the conversation with Richard, Richard

Wain, um, who is a writer, a poet, a storyteller among many other things.

It has a, has a book out.

Um, the book is actually coming out.

We don't, we completely forgot in a bad podcasting way to say

when the book is coming out.

So I can say that now.

The book is coming out on the 17th of November, 2023.

All of the notes, um, in the, in the show notes, you'll find a link to

pre-order that, or order it or buy it, as well as of course being able

to buy it in all of the usual places.

Uh, but in this part of the conversation, um.

Which follows part one, obviously it being a part two.

So if you haven't listened to this, I'd suggest you go there first, which

is, you know, some of the story behind the book, which is in itself, um,

kind of, you know, really helpful, encouraging, important, listen.

Uh, but this, in this part of the conversation, we get into the book.

And into the writing.

And, um, Richard shares some of that, which is, uh, kind of really inspiring.

And part of the reason I, I really enjoyed this conversation is that

it was a kind of connecting of various threads behind this podcast.

Part of my own, uh, inspiration for doing this was Jeremy Lent.

And, um, his book, the Web of Meaning, has a, a great invitation

at the end of that book, um, that, you know, as the, the systems on

which we've depended for the last.

50 or 60 stroke thousand years as they crumble and Krenn people increasingly

looking around for a new story.

Uh, and that we all have an opportunity to help weave new story into culture.

And so my, this podcast is in a way my very, very small

contribute contribution to that.

And, uh, Jeremy's work and writing is also a big.

Inspiration for, uh, Richard.

So there was a nice sort of retying of various threads in that, which was part

of the reason that I really enjoyed the conversation here with Richard.

And actually his book, um, you know, asked some really important, big questions,

but also super accessible questions that might help us plot a route through

these changing times in which we live.

Yeah.

So, uh, Richard, what would be really great, uh, to kind of as a way to guide

us into the book, why don't you, um, start by, and, and the reason I'm obviously

really curious and keen about this is everything that we've been talking about,

this idea of a kind of building precipice, which, you know, I feel, you feel, you

know, is seen and responded, you know, we're seeing bubble up in, in across

our cul our culture with individuals all over, I really sort of inspired by

this idea that the kind of book, the writing, what your, the intention, what

the hope is to start helping people kind of navigate through this somewhat.

So, um, why don't you sort of, um, you know, where, where's the best place

to start to help us get into the book?

Um, I, I think we'll, uh, we'll start at the start.

That's a best place to start.

so, uh, I, the first poem in the book is, is called Introduction.

Um, and I'll read it for you now.

Feel the breeze now.

Steady and cool against your skin, your senses raised to greet the chill.

The early autumn leaves shift uneasily as if in memory of some

unspoken doubt, Dew soaked ground, a whitewashed sun, reluctant somehow

to embrace the jagged horizon.

Each step reveals the broadening sky.

Grizzled trees give way to shale as the old world falls away.

The chasm before you dives sheer into mist.

Lonely islands like driftwood on a shifting tide dance with

the waves and wisps of shadow.

There is no way down, no path to lead you back.

You are at the brink now.

You have nowhere else to turn.

Eyes drawn to the high hills, to the distant horizon.

Impossible thoughts curving light and shadow.

Your heart beats faster.

Now it beats in anticipation of what lies beyond.

You can feel the danger there in that untold wild, the hunting eyes,

the webs of cruel uncertainty.

But you feel something else too.

Something that calls you, something that knows why you are here.

Something brave, something new.

And as you reach the cliff edge, you realize that you are not alone.

There are other people stepping out from the tree line.

So many people moving as one, so different yet the same, shielding their

eyes as they step into the light, they reach the edge, look over and exchange.

Concerned, murmurings, nervous glances.

More and more step forward until the mile long curve of the escarpment edge

is hidden entirely by the gathered crowd.

All fall silent.

As one, they look out to the far away mountains.

A sense of knowing and not knowing passes between them, the knowledge of an ending.

But more than that adorning awareness that beyond that ending

beyond the brink is the beginning.

The beginning of a new world, the ending of the old standing there at the edge.

Everyone can see it.

Yeah, that's really beautiful to, um, to hear that.

And I get, you know, kinda aware, obviously as I am of the conversation

we've had up to now, but really I get that sort of clear feeling of uh, a kind

of hopelessness or the isolation of the kind of, of me, the individual in there

actually finding, uh, kind of finding home, finding hope, finding ho uh, solace

in a sense in, in the group, um, in the, in the many, uh, and the, the kind of

the, the journey that flows from there.

So I, I, I think there's a, there are a number of aspects to it.

One is the, uh, sense of isolation that I feel from, from time to time

in, in a fairly connected life.

Um, I, I can feel isolated and alone, and I know many, many people

who have similar, similar feelings.

There was a point in my life where I realized that my three people, I

would call my best friends, a number of people, my closest family members,

all of them male, uh, were all at one stage or another of dealing with,

uh, with depression of some kind.

Um, and that, that made me think, okay, so this is a little microcosm

of, of my community, a little, you know, potentially a microcosm

of, of the culture that I live in.

And everyone.

Is depressed.

Um, now of course that, you know, not everyone would identify themselves as

being depressed, but that really struck me, as, as a point of, okay, this

isolation and disconnection is a, is a, is a disease that we need to find a cure for.

And when I, when I look in somebody's eyes and, uh, and have

a conversation about anything, um, like we are having a conversation

just now, that isolation goes away.

And the, the, the, the fact that we can share the experience, the fact that we

can share a sense that we are moving somewhere together, that is immediately

a, a, a simple form of, of, of connection.

And, and I think this, that introduction for me, really just as a way of

leading from, I can be in a point of despair and disconnection, or I can

be in a point of hopeful connection and potential to move forward.

And, uh, and that, that journey, I think is something that, there's, there's

only one side of that that I want to end up on, if you see what I mean.

So the, the, the book as it, um, goes through each poem is, uh, separated

by some, some illustration, but also by a, a set of questions that,

really the, are the questions that I was asking myself through the course

of the thrutopia, um, masterclass.

But, but there are also questions that, that I think, uh, just sort

of guide, my own reflections have been guided by these questions.

And, and that was why I wanted them to be part of the, part of the book.

I think that they can be helpful questions in that they're open and they leave space

for interpretation, but they're also sort of, they have their own challenge.

So the, the first of those questions, if I step forward,

what kind of future will I find?

The idea of just, okay, so what if I take the first step towards something?

What if I take the first step towards, uh, writing a book?

What if I take the first step towards, um, I, I don't know, uh,

to being, being more careful with, uh, my, my waste, uh, uh, home?

What if I take the first, whatever it is?

What does the future look like if I, if I start to change?

That was the question that I was asking myself.

So Jeremy's work, in particular, Jeremy Lent's work in particular, uh, was,

was the, um, inspiration for the next poem in the book, which is a poem, a

poem called The Future is Already Here.

And, and the Future Is Already Here.

Is, is, is very much, uh, Jeremy's words really, and I think is entirely

a sort of synthesis of, of, of, uh, of, of his way of thinking, which, which

helped me to interpret that question.

So the future is already here.

The future you seek is already here.

It's locked to the beat of your heart when the world that we weave is unwoven,

every thread that is left plays its part in weaving a new web of meaning.

In planting the seeds of belief.

A vision that follows the dreaming, the root, and the branch and the leaf.

All patterns are interconnected, each fractal as sum of the whole,

our world in its chaos and glory.

A body at one with its soul.

Its true source of power is compassion.

The calling so gentle and clear.

A whisper of wisdom and wonder for the future that's already here.

It's, yeah, it sort of takes me back to, um, reading his

book, obviously Jeremy's book.

Um, I, we kind of mentioned in the earlier part of the conversation

of Jeremy was actually, well think probably my first, first guest and

also my motivation for doing this too.

And, uh, those words take me back to, you know, a lot of that, the, but the,

the web of meaning that you referenced in there, which is, you know, I guess, I

guess the thing with a lot of this, which is, is actually how sort of inspiring

and hopeful a lot of this work is a lot of inspire, how inspiring and hopeful,

you know, your intent, your reasoning for the creating to, for the creating

of the book and how important, you know, this general idea of, um, of kind of

story which helps people kind of, uh, navigate through to what is a, a kind

of unknown future does feel such an important, uh, contribution to be making,

I think, I think it's, um, uh, yeah, when you, when you read something like

you, you've read Sand Talk, you read Sand Talk, uh, tyson y Porter, when you,

when you read something like that, the, the eloquence and the, perspective on

connection, the perspective on what it means to be part of an interconnected

community and an interconnected world is, is so radically beyond my understanding

of, of that or where that's come from and, and my cultural kind of baggage

around, uh, around interconnection.

And I feel like that story of what we are and what we, what we are made of and

how, how we are eventually and long ago, all the same stuff, that is such a, it's

such a great story and such a hopeful story, an amazingly positive story.

And it, and, and it transcends so much.

And, and, you know, many, many people have, have tried to tell that.

And, and I think, uh, tell it in ways that are way beyond my reach

in terms of their perspective that they hold and the research that

they've done and the, just the huge amount that has gone into their work.

And I think that in this little book, I'm trying to refine some of that in

my own way so that I can reflect back on it, um, with, with my own sort

of, slightly simpler perspective.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, but again, the, the need for simplify.

'Cause, you know, the enormity of what people like Jeremy or Tyson Yo Korto are

doing, where they're taking, you know, taking these huge fucking ideas and just

sort of just sort of distilling them into sort of real simplicity and I guess, you

know, so in a sense they are, you know, in that kind of, uh, uh, that sort of

classicality, they, they are a channel, you know, and, you know, kind of uniquely

placed as channels to bring these kind of huge ideas and, and making it simpl,

making it simple, making it digestible.

It's like, it's part of, it's the art, isn't

It is.

Absolutely.

I think that's, I think that's right.

I'm curious for your, for your own thing, um, for, in terms of

kind of where, where you are.

Um, we were talking before, earlier about, um, you know, the, the being

at precipice, a kind of feeling of, of kind of precipice, you know, kind of

a long journey to an ever clarifying precipice and, um, the, how the ideas

of utopia kind of resonated, this need to articulate a route through.

I was curious, you know, how, how has your own underlying sort of thoughts,

ideas, feelings around this changed as a result of writing the book?

The main that's happened is that I have recognized that in allowing myself to

step into an imaginative space have really reduced the space for any of that.

Um, any of that feeling of, of of unease.

the, the creative pursuit of writing a book has reframed everything that

made me feel a sense of discomfort.

It hasn't removed the sense of discomfort so much has redirected it into, uh,

something that feels positive and something that feels light and something

that feels like I can get a handle on it.

it's really just fueled a journey of, um, of, of kind of growth and

discovery and, and allowed me to be a lot less harsh on myself.

And, uh, you know what I would say is, to anyone who's got any sense that writing

might be something that helps them or that they can contribute to the world,

it's just spend the time, you know, it, it's, um, it's such a freeing thing to

do and, and has helped me to be better in my business, at my family life, at, at

all of the other components of my life.

The energy that it creates for me is, uh, a transformative thing.

And, um, and I think that that, again is, is something that is

probably shared by a lot of people.

The, the, those passions that, that you have, that unlock, um, energy and,

uh, and, and that really give you a chance to, to, uh, recharge, you know.

Yeah, I mean, it's not an important question, but I am kind of curious about

what do you think, what, why is that?

What is what, what's happening there?

Why?

Why is it by investing in this sort of creative pursuit, which has maybe

been trying to find its kind of outlet in, in your life forever more,

I mean, in asking the question, the answer is, is kind of clear, but I

guess there's another point, isn't it?

The giving space to do that has kind of freed up so much for you, essentially.

Yes.

Yes.

Um, I mean, I, I love the, I love the activity of, of, of writing, but it

isn't just the activity that I love.

I love the feeling of, um, the feedback that my, that my body gives me.

I love the, the feedback of the kind of unlocking of mental, uh, processes.

So I can find myself in a a, a work context, sometimes in

a home context locked, like I can't move forward mentally.

And if I'm writing, that works its way out.

You know, people journal, people write diaries, people write, I write poetry.

And, and that, that is a, a mechanism of interpreting and

finding meaning in the world.

You know, it's, it's effectively a, a sort of sense and meaning making

exercise for me that reorders my thoughts and it, and it turns out, makes

everything else make a lot more sense.

And, and so in this, in the spirit of, um, thrutopia and what the kind of intent and

hope for that is there in terms of this sort of orientating kind of navigating,

storing our way through into this kind of new future, what are some of the other

questions which you kind of rallied around within, within the book, which were some

of the other question prompts for you?

If we go to thinking about sort of a, a connection to nature, which is

something that I think about a lot, it's a simple question, and it might

sound sound kind of trite, but do I pay attention to the beauty in the world?

I'm very aware with my homeworking, uh, kind of practices that I can sit

in a darkened room for, for eight hours at a time, staring at a screen.

And I have, uh, I'm very fortunate to have a woodland that is five

minutes walk away, less than that.

Do I appreciate that?

Do I really appreciate that?

Do I make the effort to see the moon?

Do I make the effort to see, uh, the, the, the fact that there are dippers

living by this river that is just outside my house and they're extraordinary

birds that are quite rare in this?

Do I make the effort to go and see them and notice them?

Um, so that's a simple question.

Do I pay attention to the beauty in this world?

But it redirects my occasionally hyper-focused brain into,

yeah, I should check that out.

I should go out and see if I can see a woodpecker or something, you know?

Wouldn't that be amazing?

So that's, that's a, that's one question.

Uh, you know, again, there, they're sort of big open questions,

but they're questions that I, I think are always worth repeating.

So, am I alone or am I part of something bigger?

It's so easy to feel alone in the world and, uh, you know, even with a family

and with, uh, people that I love and friends and sometimes I feel alone.

A question like that in front of me helps me to see that po potentially.

I, well, I'm, I'm not, you know, and, and I never have been.

But I think that that's a useful question sometimes to ask.

What will my grandchildren's lives be like?

it's so hard to think even five years ahead with the way that things are now.

But maybe I could imagine what my, what my grandson or my granddaughter, if

I have a grandson or a granddaughter, what, what might their experience be?

That's quite a nice way of, um, engaging with that whole what

is to what if, um, scenario.

So what, what, what is my grandchild doing in, in, uh, in 60, 70 years time?

And, and what is the world that they're in?

How does it work?

Um, you know, what, what are the changes that have happened?

And, and has it got better?

And if it did, how did it get better?

I find that quite a useful exercise.

Can I look beyond myself?

you know, I, I, going on podcasts and talking about a book that I've

written, it feels like a bit of a, uh, you know, stupid question

to, to, um, to ask in a way.

And I've really struggled with this whole thing in terms of

who cares what I've got to say?

But at the same time, I think that in so far as hope in so far as a, a

book like this might offer someone some hope then, uh, there is a, a

meaning for it beyond, beyond myself.

And can I, can I look beyond my own needs?

Can I look to a more holistic idea of what it means to be, uh, human and, and,

and to contribute to something else?

Um, so, you know, there are, there are questions, many, many questions all the

way through, and I don't don't want to sort of, um, bo bore you with them all.

Um, maybe the last one, uh, which relates back to previous discussion

that we had on this podcast is, do I have the courage to take a new path?

Am I really gonna be able to step into this idea of what a new world looks like?

Uh, or am I gonna, am I gonna go back to water flowing downhill and, and,

and seeking to stick with what I know?

I love all of those and, uh, in a, in a moment it'd be, uh, be good to, uh,

have for you to kind of pick one of the poems that we can, we can finish on.

But before we, we do that, I just kind of, the thing that I sort of like

about it, other than obviously sort of enjoying spending time thinking about

those sorts of big questions which, uh, just sort of talks to my interest

in nature, but it's so important, you know, like in a way you'd say actually.

You say, oh, you know, almost apologetically.

Oh no, these are, you know, I, these are kind of big questions, but in a sense,

you know, like particularly things around sort of climate, which I, I'm

thinking of a, a good friend of mine, he's a professor of, uh, climate science,

and he and I taught, and he was just sort of great insights on things and

talking a lot about sort of emergence and how things and how things change.

But the thing that I'm sort of struck by actually in a way is

all of these things, you know, it not being about solutions, right?

In a sense, like it not being about solutions and what I'm kind of feeling

from your writing, this kind of invitation to question, the invitation

to reflect, the invitation to again, actually on things which are in a

way sort of, you know, the only and most important things like, you know,

loneliness and being not feeling isolated.

My ability or kind of, uh, opportunity to connect, to have conversation with others.

To, to feel a kinship with others is such a kind of important thing.

And the thing which I was coming up for me, as you were talking about your

writing is, and, you know, feeling quite, uh, an inspiring thing is that in a way

it comes down to values, is the thing which is sort of coming out, is what

I'm sort of taking from this somewhat.

And, and with that, I was kind of reminded of, um, a conversation I had.

Uh, I dunno if you know Dan Burgess, he was on my podcast.

He and, uh, I actually did a.

A, a program that he run, which was a group program, which was also around

writing that, which was based on some work that they had done, he and some

other collaborators, which was about, uh, I think it's called Stories for

Life, I can't actually remember.

I need to, I'll, I'll double check exactly what it's called and put the notes

in, put it in the, in the show notes.

But it, it's sort of talking a lot, uh, to very similar ideas to the

thrutopia thing, which is the kind of dominant narratives in the culture are,

you know, ones of conquering nature, uh, you know, the good versus bad.

You know, me fighting something out there and kind of winning it.

But of course, you know, it's the, these are sort of reinforcing

the ideas of competition.

They're reinforcing the idea of conquering nature, even, you know, not in a, you

know, even oftentimes in a, you know, with what I'm sure was kind of right, you know,

right and positive intent, but actually this idea that somehow this thing needs to

be beaten, it needs to be kind of tamed.

Uh, and the work that they were doing was kind of, sort of seeding the idea

actually the, the role that story and storytellers could play, uh, given it is

the, you know, the lens through which we see the world as you've spoken to, the

role that storytellers could play to help kind of re-seed that to, to re-craft that.

And, um, he had a, a three month, um, kind of project where there was a group

of about 40 of us all, all together working on the, some of these ideas.

And I remember at the closing ceremony of that, uh, Dan sort of shared a

little bit of his, know, his, his kind of sadness and frustration and

struggle, uh, having spent, you know, 20 years as he articulated it, um,

20 odd years trying to kind of change this thing, like what, you know, what

had felt for him since, you know, for 20 years this climate emergency as he

first felt it, you know, he describes when he first kind of fell through the

kind of trap door and then there was no seeing anything else essentially.

And that being a, a kind of moment for him some 20 odd years ago.

And all of his work, all of his energy, all of his kind of life since

then has been trying to help other people see that and then change it.

And then this sort of despair and despondency, which is sort of bubbled

up when this realization that actually.

It's not changing.

All of this work is not sort of doing anything and, um, the kind of, sort of

struggle that comes with that somewhat.

But of course, in a way what he, well didn't articulate, but in a

way the thing that comes from the struggle is the sort of letting go.

But the, the story I'd shared with him afterwards was, um, around the same sort

of time I'd been on a, um, a Buddhist meditation retreat for a few weeks.

And I was listening to one of the stories that one of the main teachers

there who is this very humorous, uh, monk called Aja Suto teacher.

And he was talking about this story of, um, he, he's part of what is called the,

the Thai Forest, uh, monastery network.

There's like 300 of these, uh, monasteries all around the world.

You know, four continents, 10 countries, thousands of sort of monks and

people doing all this important work.

And he was talking about the, the guy who heads the, the network, right?

And, uh, so the Abbott.

But I was really kind of, sort of struck by this sort of story 'cause

he was talking about this Abbott and how this Abbott can deal with,

you know, what would be a constant stream of demands on his time, right?

Um, with this total ease, an un flustered and un busyness, whilst

he didn't say, but my sort of, you know, clearly no iPhone, imagine no

iPhone, no constant stream of emails.

He's, you know, no armies of support people.

Just this man, simple man in a simple Hutt in Thailand, you know, basically

marshaling this entire network.

And as a sort of just a middle of thought experiment, I put that to a

few people I know who work in business in kind of the air quotes and saying

like, can you imagine the CEO who is the top of this organization?

It spans four continents, 10 countries, you know, 300

subsidiaries, all reporting into him.

Thousands of people doing some of the most kind of emotionally taxing work

possible, yet doing it without emails, without an army of secretarial support.

You know, would you like to learn from that guy?

Which everyone says yes, obviously.

And it is like, well, actually he's a monk and he's the Abbott

of this monastery network.

But anyway, that bit aside, one of the, the principles that that whole network has

been, has been founded on, and it's a 50, 60 year old network now, are two things.

And the, the principles from the very, very beginning, the first teacher who've

handed it, the principles were personal responsibility and community awareness.

And everything from this place, personal responsibility, but community awareness.

And it, he, he kind of, uh, he, he demonstrated this story by explaining

when the, um, when the monastery in the UK was set up, the, the UK version

of it, or, uh, subsidiary, uh, to borrow the language, uh, agen Char, who

was the teacher, and this was in the 1970s, came over, uh, with two of his

sort of monks who worked with him, who were both, uh, British, uh, by birth.

And, um, they came over to sort of explore to see whether having

a monastery in the UK made sense.

And so they came over and at the end of the trip, Achar says to, uh, Aja

Tomato, who was the, the monk, yep.

I think this would be, this would be a good place to, to have a monastery.

Uh, I'd like you to stay here, uh, and set the monastery up and, um, so good luck.

You know what to do, keep in touch.

And then basically leaves in there to just set up the monastery.

And that, the reason I like that is the story that speaks to this

idea, because the idea that they're talking to and working to is personal

responsibility, but community awareness that everything starts here.

You know, pointing again to, to myself or to oneself.

Everything starts in our heart.

Everything starts here.

How I engage with the world, how I respond to the world.

This, you know, this determines our kind of values.

The extent to which, you know, the, the conversation we might have, the

flavor of that conversation, how I might respond to family, how you

might respond to the family at large.

These kind of ideas as a sort of guiding practice.

And the reason I share all of that is I shared it with Dan after he was talking

about the despair, and I was sort of saying that in a way, what he'd spent

20 years trying to do is trying to kind of, you know, from that kind of place

off a kind of fear and wanting to change things, I'm gonna try and fix things.

I'm gonna help you understand it's like this.

But of course we can't do that, whatever the intention.

All we can really do.

And it like, as I I was saying for him, actually, he's embody, embodying the

spirit of those two values of personal responsibility and community awareness.

He knows his kind of route to this work.

He knows the values by which he's responded to and he's doing the

work of bringing people together to have space to kind of sort of

think and write and explore that.

And in a way, maybe actually it's the birthing of these new values, uh,

or, or re-understanding, reengaging with some of these values, which your

questions talk to too, which is the root through, which is the kind of the, the,

the kind of thrutopia path somewhat.

Yeah, I think it's, it's not about solutions.

It's about how we show up.

And, and we have a responsibility for how we show up as individuals.

And then we have, uh, an awareness of community.

And at the moment that those two things happen, then the

solutions fall into place.

Um, and they fall into place from below.

They fall into place from a, from a, a bottom up, uh, perspective.

But they also fall into place from a top down perspective because a leader

who puts themself in that mindset, they treat the, uh, the, the systems

that they potentially have control over the levers on very, very differently.

At the point where, where that's the mindset.

So, you know, if, if there was a, if there was a single thing that I could do

right now, if there was a button I could press to change anything, it would not be

to remove, uh, 200 parts per million of, of, um, of carbon from the atmosphere.

Uh, it would be to change mindsets.

You know, if you could change as many, uh, mindsets as you could.

Then almost all the, the, the fundamental, um, motivations to destroy

the, the, the, the world that we live in would melt away immediately.

AnD then I'll kind a reminder, I, I've, I've referenced, uh, my friend

Dom, uh, the climate scientist, but we sort of talk about, in a way that work

to change mindsets happened by kind of sharing those questions, questions

like you're doing, having conversation, being in, being in community, being

in conversation, being in discussion.

That is where these things telling

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally.

And that's, that's, that's where that, that work would always

have been done in, um, you know, in, in cultures, uh, gone by.

The, the work of the, of the storyteller is to, uh, to communicate those values and

to communicate the culture across time.

You know, and, and potentially we've, we've lost that idea that

stories are culture, but, but they are, you know, and, uh, and, and I,

I think that's a beautiful thing.

So on that note, which story would you like to leave us with?

I am gonna read a poem, um, called We Share a Dream.

Share a Dream.

You know it too, my friend.

There's light beyond our common fear.

This is not the end.

We share a dream, a city full of trees, ice building on the mountain,

peaks, birdsong on the breeze.

Farms full of life and soil rich as gold.

The wealth we stand to gain if we let nature take a hold, power in our hands

and constantly renewed sun, wind, and raging river will light this world anew.

We share a dream.

You know it too, my friend.

There's light beyond our common fear.

This is not the end.

There is a fire inside you two, my friend, the common thread of our desire, a flame

that will transcend this skin and bone.

This moment held, this turning point from which we tell a tale of peace with every

voice, regenerate with every choice.

Unleash the change in every soul, take up the threads and make this

whole unraveled world a tapestry.

The beauty you were made to be.

The beauty of the grass, the tree, the birds in flight, the honeybee.

Each ecosystem like each heart beat out this rhythm from the start.

And so it will again, my friend.

We share a dream.

It's not the end.

We share a dream and we can make it true.

The answers are all known to us.

We know what we must do This is the time to find the dream again.

Let compassion rise inside us.

And with that power exclaim, we are the world.

We shall not sit and burn each precious conscious being,

it is time to take our turn.

This skin and bone, this moment held, this turning point from which we yell

a chant of peace with every voice.

Rebuild this world with every choice.

Unleash the change in every soul.

Take up the threads and make this whole miraculous unfolding dream

the purpose of your every scheme.

Reality is yours to choose If all are one, we cannot lose.

Each human being like each heart beat out this rhythm from the start.

And so it will again, my friend.

We have a dream.

It's not the end.

We will live in a world remade.

Your dream and mine will never fade.

The best of us will soon be seen, because you and I, we share a dream.

Yeah.

The thing which was sort of coming up for me there is just the, the kind

of, the importance and the opportunity of just, of the little things I.

You know, this is, you know, it's about the stitching together of the little

things, the little thing of writing the book, the little thing in your

case, the, the, the little thing of, you know, the, the sum, you know, we

are the sum of the interactions that we have, the sum of the conversations,

that we have, the, you know, the sum of all of these little things.

Uh, and that was sort of something which was really sort of feeling

as you were reading there.

Yeah, I think, uh, we all have, um, a role.

And, uh, and, and, and that's, that's all really.

It's, it's the same thing again in terms of how can we show up individually

and try and fulfill that role and not, uh, be competitive about that

or not use that for our own personal gain too much, but to step into

something that, that actually helps.

and that's hard.

You know, it's not easy to find a route to that, but, but it, it comes from,

but you point to yourself, you know?

Richard.

Where can people find your writing?

So, um, it will be available on, uh, uh, the obvious places.

So you'll be able to get hold of the book on, um, on, on Amazon, but

also on various other places online.

There, there is a website, beyondthebrinkbook.com, where you can pick

up a copy, uh, and the, the proceeds from the book are going to a couple of causes.

So there is, um, the Devon Environment Foundation, which is a local

environmental charity to, to where I live.

Um, and a pound from every book sold is going to Devon Environment Foundation.

Uh, the rest of the, the money from the book is going to the Thrutopia,

uh, Writers Association to promote the, um, the, the writing of more

of these stories that lead us, uh, to towards that future that we are

proud to leave for future generations.

Richard, thank you so much for sharing the book, for producing the

book, for writing the book, and, uh, talking to me about the book today.

Thank you Ben, for, uh, giving me the opportunity to, it's a

pleasure to, uh, to speak to you and, uh, appreciate it very much.

Thank you for listening to that two-parter.

Uh, I hope you enjoyed it.

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useful, interesting for somebody else, do please share it with them.

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You'll find everything there.

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Uh, but until next time, thank you and speak to you soon.