Shownotes
So you have created your product - but have you thought about the packaging?
It is easy to forget that packaging plays a crucial role in the customer experience and can significantly influence purchasing decisions.
This week my guest is Denisa Parker, a brand designer and founder of Kind and Ivy, a design studio that works with product-based and e-commerce businesses to help them stand out in their industry and show the value of their product through branding, packaging and website design.
Denisa joins Vicki Weinberg to discuss the importance of thoughtful packaging, particularly in relation to sustainability and brand identity. We explore how packaging should not only protect the product but also tell a story and create a memorable experience for customers. Denisa emphasizes the need for packaging to reflect the values of the brand, especially in today's market where consumers increasingly prioritise eco-friendly options. Throughout the conversation, we share practical tips for entrepreneurs looking to enhance their packaging strategy while maintaining cost-effectiveness.
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Transcripts
Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.
I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hello.
So today on the podcast, I'm speaking with Denisa Parker.
Denisa is a brand designer and the founder of Kind and Ivy, a designed studio that works with product based and ecommerce businesses to help them stand out in their industry and show the value of their product through branding, packaging and website design. So I invited Denisa onto the podcast to talk specifically about packaging.
Denisa, as you will hear, is so passionate about packaging and particularly sustainable packaging. We covered such a lot. There were some really, really good tips in this episode.
So I will say if you are listening to this on the go and packaging is something you're considering at the moment, you really might want to have a notepad or some way of taking notes in your phone or something because these are has so many great ideas on how you can really elevate your packaging and they're sprinkled throughout this episode. So, yeah, it might be one you want to take notes. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
Denise is so passionate about the subjects and yeah, there's lots and lots packed into this. So enjoy. Hi, Denise. Thank you so much for being here.
Denisa Parker:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat to you today.
Vicki Weinberg:Me too. So can we start with you? Please give an introduction to yourself and your business.
Denisa Parker:Of course. I'm Denisa Parker and I run Kind and Ivy, which is a branding and design studio where I work mainly with product based and e commerce brands.
Most of the clients I work with, they're either sustainably minded or like, ethical brands, brands that want to do something better for the world. They're trying to be kinder in some way to people or our planet.
And I sort of take my clients through the entire branding process from like brand identity, packaging design, all the way through website design, mainly on Shopify, and I help them launch or relaunch as well as when they need it.
Vicki Weinberg:That's brilliant. Thank you. So today we're going to talk specifically about packaging.
Let's start off, if it's okay, by talking about why is packaging so important to the experience for the customer? And what are some of the things we need to consider when we're thinking about packaging and I'm only talking to myself here, Denisa.
But I know when I launched my first products that for me, the packaging was almost an afterthought. And I had so many issues that came from me not spending the time and the effort that I could have done on packaging my products.
Well, so I would love to hear your thoughts about why packaging is so important and. Yeah, and what are some of those things that we need to be thinking about?
Denisa Parker:Absolutely. I do.
Like you said, I think packaging, one of these overlooked things, you know, brand founders, they spend so much time developing the product, making sure it's the absolute best it can be, the highest quality can be, and then I. I don't know, maybe they just run out of steam when they get to the packaging or designing the packaging.
They just kind of go, you know, and I feel like it's such a letdown when you spend so much time, you know, working on your product, making sure it's the best it can be, and then the packaging kind of lets it down. I don't like seeing that. And I think this is one of the biggest struggles that my clients have had in the past.
But your product packaging and your product is the biggest, the primary manifestation of your business. Right?
So you wanted to make sure that you can create that absolutely amazing experience for your customers because it is so important and so vital for their decision making process. Just like when we eat with our eyes, we shop with our eyes as well, whether we do it consciously or not.
When we look at a product and we look at the packaging, the way it looks, the way it feels, if we pick it up and we touch it, the way it feels, that creates an experience and that already, kind of already, you already form an opinion of that product before you even start using it.
So, for example, think of, you know, you walk down the aisles of a supermarket, you already kind of pick products unknowingly, perhaps based on how they look before you even, you know, have tasted them or tried them on. So that's why I think it's extremely important in creating that kind of very first impression with your customers.
So one thing that I always think that brand founders kind of miss a little bit is the way that your packaging feels and sounds is extremely important. And I feel, again, it's a little bit overlooked and it's not talked about enough.
I feel in the design space as well, is kind of the feel and sound of packaging, both like the container of your packaging as well, but also the packaging that you use to ship your products.
So the way it sounds like when you open it, you know, a cheap, very cheap, like, plastic bag, that crinkly bag sounds very different from like a smoother bag or even something like a cotton bag, they just sound completely different.
Same with, you know how when you touch a box, for example, if it's like high quality, kind of sturdier cardboard, it has this, like, velvety soft finish. Maybe it's got some embossed elements on it that feels very different from like just a regular standard, kind of a bit thin cardboard box.
So they're, they're kind of subtle details, but they do, you know, all of them together, they do create a very different experience and they do start these, like, preconceptions for customers of what the product will be like and the value of the product.
So if you have a really high quality product, and the price tag is perhaps a little bit higher as well, but your packaging isn't, that isn't matching that, then you're going to have a harder time selling your product. Or convincing. I don't like the word convincing.
Perhaps, you know, making your customers see the value of your product when the packaging doesn't quite match the value of the product that you've created.
Vicki Weinberg:That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And I'm sure I've shared on this podcast before that one of the products I sold was was a towel for children.
And it was a high quality product. Actually, it wasn't the towel, it was my swaddles, actually, was the one that this happened with.
The packaging that I chose was not sturdy enough for the box to maintain a nice shape.
So what would happen is during the shipping process, often whether that was shipping from the supplier to the warehouse or warehouse to customer, the boxes would get, the corners would crease or they would get bent out of shape slightly. And I really, really think that let them down myself, my products, because the product inside the box was of great quality.
But if a box arrives and it doesn't look pristine, and especially if you paid a higher price point, I think from a customer, you think, well, this can't be very good. It just gives a very bad impression. So I'd love to know your thoughts on the functionality of packaging as well, if that's okay.
And because I think as well as looking good, I think it obviously has a job to do in terms of presenting the product, keeping it safe. Yeah. What are your thoughts around that?
Denisa Parker:Yeah, absolutely. I think my biggest piece of advice with that would be send.
It sounds a bit, it might sound a bit weird, but send yourself an order or send, you know, one of your friends an order just so that you can see what the order ends up looking like, because you inevitably, you might discover things that you wouldn't have thought of.
So package an order as you would normally, perhaps one of your best selling items or just some items that you're unsure of in the packaging that you have and just ship it out again. You can ship it to yourself and see the condition it arrives in, see what the box on the outside looks like.
See how it's, you know, has it gotten well through transit? Do you put, do you need to put any stickers that say fragile on there? Open. Open it up and see. Does all of the filler material you have, if you.
If you use any, how has that protected anything? How does you know, the product itself?
Look, just have a really good look at everything and see if you've arranged products in a specific way in the box when you ship them.
But then when you've just opened it, you see that everything's just kind of everywhere and it's not, you know, it doesn't look the same, then perhaps something to reconsider. So that would be my biggest piece of advice, is just send yourself a little order and see.
See what it looks like when you get it, because that's what it will most likely look like when your customers get it as well. In terms of, like, more sort of functional for, like, containers as well. I would say have a.
This is where it's really important to have a good relationship with your manufacturers and the people that you source all of your packaging from and speak to them and see they're most likely experts in, in what they do, and they would be better suited than myself. I have a lot of experience with this because I've, you know, I've been doing it.
And every time I do like to get samples of the products that I design and I work on just to see.
And the same with packaging, but suppliers and manufacturer, they're definitely experts in their product, so it's always better to have a really good relationship with them because they'll know better than I would as a designer how the packaging would withstand certain, you know, if it's stacked on top, if you stack ten of your product on top of each other, that will weigh very differently if you stack 30 of it on top of each other. So these are kind of considerations that your manufacturers and your suppliers would know.
So it's important to kind of ask all of these questions to them.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much. I love that those were two really good, practical pieces of advice. Thank you so much.
And I think they're both very simple, but things that I'm sure not all of us are doing already. So thank you. I think they're really useful. So let's talk a little bit about where our products are sold, if that's okay.
So are there different things we need to consider depending on whether our product is sold online and we need to ship to customers or whether it's going to be purely on a shelf in a store? And I guess not only from a practical point of view, but from a design element as well.
Are there different things we need to think about based on those two scenarios?
Denisa Parker:I would say definitely.
Even for me as a designer, there are different things that I always consider with that generally, my clients either already sell both kind of in person and online, or are planning to at some point in the future. So I think it's always, always a good idea to plantain for both, but they definitely do have different considerations.
So, for example, when you have products that are sold online, say for example on your website, your products, they aren't competing with everyone else, they aren't competing for attention with other products, and you're able to kind of capture that attention of your customer.
You have an entire product page, for example, dedicated to your product, talking about ingredients, how it's made, all of these things, all of these supporting elements for your product. You have your branding, your photography messaging that contribute to creating this bigger experience.
And your customers can kind of get engrossed into this new brand experience and brand world.
Whereas if you sell your products in person, so if they're on the shelf or if you sell them on marketplaces like Etsy or Amazon, then your product is competing with a lot of these other brands out there. So your packaging and photography, if you're online, needs to work so much harder at capturing and like grabbing your customers attention.
So this is where product packaging becomes really, really important for it. And you need to consider, you know, when you don't just have their attention in a way, when you're online.
So when customers scroll online on Amazon or on Etsy, they're probably doing something else as well. They get distracted. I used to run in the very early days of my studio. I also used to run a handmade stationery business on Etsy.
ers I used to get were around:If they're in the supermarket, they might be distracted by people around them, their children, needing their attention, all of these things.
So your product packaging needs to work really, really hard to capture your attention and tell your customer why a product is amazing, what it does and why they should care for it. And another thing to consider is online you have an entire website page dedicated to your product. What it does, what it does.
Amazingly, your business values, ingredients, how it's manufactured, all how to use it, all of these things that you want to tell your customers about your product. You have a lot of space and a lot of real estate to do that. But when a product is on the shelf, you have a lot less space.
You have basically just the front of the packaging. Customers really pick it up, but sometimes they pick it up, but sometimes they don't pick it up.
They make a decision on what to buy or what to look at without even picking up the product. So you have that front window of the packaging. That's all you have to entice your customers to tell a story.
To tell your customers, hey, this product is for you. Here's why. Here's why. It's amazing. So you have to really consider what you're putting on the front of that packaging, the important information.
But I find that what I think is important information is sometimes different from what business owners think is important information.
They think a lot of the times that the brand logo or the brand name is important information and they want to have that really big, which is fair enough. We do always want to have some brand name or brand logo on the front of the packaging to create that brand awareness.
But unless you're a household name without something harsh, unless you're a household name or a really big brand, your brand logo isn't going to hold the same weight. So your customers are probably looking for something else on your packaging.
You know, they're not, they're not buying the brand, they're buying the promise that you're making. They're, they're buying the values, they're buying something else.
So it's always good to include things, you know, what is the promise that your product makes? It clears your skin after two uses. You have shinier hair after one wash, something like that.
And it's important to consider where, where to put that so that your customers sees it. So there's, there's just a lot, you know, there's a lot of information that you're trying to put into, like a very small space.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah. That makes sense.
And I think, I guess this comes back to something I've talked about on this podcast before, which is knowing your customer and knowing what's important to them.
So, for example, I'm thinking that if your product was vegan, for example, that would be something you might want to put on the front because that's something that's probably very important to people.
And they might be looking for that logo and having it on the back is maybe not as useful because someone may be going to a beauty counter looking for vegan skincare. Maybe that's what they're, if that's what they're searching for, that's what they have in mind.
I'm thinking unless that's on the front of the box, they're probably going to disregard the products where they don't see that clearly.
Denisa Parker:Yes, absolutely. It's so, so that's how I always start my design process, is through knowing who your customer is.
Because it is so important to know exactly what your customers like and what they need and they want to see on your packaging. Like the example you just gave with the vegan product.
If you know that your customers are looking for vegan products, vegan friendly products, putting that on the front of the packaging is important. Information is absolutely essential. The same with sustainable packaging.
If you want your customers to know that you're an eco friendly brand, sustainably minded, then you can include some of that on the front of the packaging.
Or perhaps nowadays it's a little bit easier, especially for more like consciously minded consumers, to know which packaging is recyclable or recycled. So if you're not using plastic, that is already one small way you can let your customers know that you're a bit more eco conscious as well.
So all of these things, these little triggers can create, you know, you can let your customers know these things. So, for example, if you want to communicate your luxury brand, what you can do is you can use like little emboss patterns on your packaging.
Similarly, as I've talked about texture, you can create like this, like very tactile feel for your packaging to create a certain feeling. So knowing what your customer wants to see in your packaging, that is really, really important.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, thank you. And just touching on that, I guess the other thing I was thinking about as you were speaking was gifting as well.
Because do you find, is there a difference if a product is intended? There are certain products, aren't there, that may be more intended as gifts. Maybe it's something we might not buy for ourselves.
I'm thinking, for example, if you go to lush as an example, I'm only thinking this because I went recently and I wanted to buy a gift for somebody and they had a gift boxes and they were already wrapped in wrapping paper and tied with a bow, which to me made it a really easy gift purchase because it's ready, it looks like a gift.
And I think we've probably all had the experience where we want to buy something for someone and you pick it up and maybe the box or the packaging doesn't look great and you think, I don't really want to give this to somebody because it doesn't look as nice. So is that kind of thing.
Also, we need to be considering if we have a product that's really giftable, that it is presented that way, absolutely giftable and capable.
Denisa Parker:I suppose that's something that I personally strive to do in the work that I create, is create packaging that customers want to either keep or gift or just keep on the counter. If you have a beautifully designed candle, then customers use it and then they want to keep it.
Or if it's a box of skincare packaging, especially if it's designed so that you can reuse it as well, then, you know, customers are more likely to keep it. And then it's a great marketing tool because, you know, it's always there. Customers always see it, so they're reminded of your brand.
And same as you mentioned, with gifting as well, if you keep these things in mind when you design your packaging, then it will absolutely make a difference.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you. There's a lot to consider, isn't there?
So I think hopefully we're giving people some really good thoughts on the kind of things, if they're just thinking about packaging, the kind of things to keep in mind. And there is a lot. I think it is definitely worth making the effort on your packaging if you have a great product.
So let's talk a little bit about, and we have touched on this already, but obviously the packaging has to do the job of selling the product that's inside. What are some ways we can create really memorable, standout packaging? And are there sort of some elements that make up that?
Denisa Parker:Yeah. Some of these ideas that we've talked about earlier, like the texture of a packaging can do a lot to create, you know, more memorable packaging.
So things like embossing different finishes.
So, for example, like a matte or velvety finish can give a bit more of like a luxurious feel or a premium feel, or something like a glossy finish can give it a bit more of a playful look. I think it depends on how you combine it with some of the other branding elements as well.
Something that I think can also create a really memorable experience is more unique shapes for your packaging. Of course, if you have the budget to invest in something like custom made, then you can absolutely do that.
You know, like for example wild deodorant, which is now you can see it in the supermarket as well. They have this like absolutely custom made packaging for their products.
But of course that does cost a lot of money so you don't have to go quite that far ahead. You can do simpler things. For example, the lid of your packaging can be different.
If you have like a perfume or like lots of types of skincare or like nail polish, you can consider swapping just the lid to something that's a bit more custom that no one else in your industry has and that already sets you apart.
And if you're on the shelf and all of the other nail polishes, for example, look the same and yours has a different shape that already is more memorable and that already catches your customers eyes. So you can make these little strategic decisions as well, different cutout shapes in the packaging.
If you have a box, that's also another way to kind of create a little bit of intrigue as well.
And you know, your customers can have a peek into the, what's inside the box, you know, the product itself or the other packaging that's in there as well. Or some of my favorite ways to create like memorable packaging is things they can turn into something else.
So for example, seeded paper, there's loads of brands now I've seen that do seeded paper as seeded paper labels.
So if you have like a candle brand, for example, the label itself is like seeded paper which can be then reused to plant and grow wildflowers or all sorts of things. Or again for skincare, candle brands, you can choose a container that looks good to then be kept or repurposed as a jar, as any kind of container.
If you have like small, if you sell small products, for example jewelry or anything like that, you can use like cotton bags, like those little drawstring bags, cotton or linen, whatever you can afford to invest in. And they have a really nice textural feel as well. And that can create, you know, it's a bit more memorable than just the box or tissue paper.
Or if you have products for kids perhaps like the box itself, when you open it up, you can have a little game or puzzle for the children inside these. All these kind of different creative ways of thinking of how can your product be repurposed after your customer uses it or takes the box out?
How can we reuse that? Repurpose that? It's more memorable because it's different from what other brands are doing, but it also shows your values.
If you're a sustainable brand, it shows that you're, you know, it shows this value in action because you're using your packaging as a way to be, you know, in a way that can be repurposed.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you. And I think something you touched on there that I found really interesting is the actual unboxing of the product.
So not just the packaging, how it looks on the shelf or on the store, but when you receive it and you open it up, because I think that's something that also can perhaps be overlooked. You could have beautiful external box, for example, and then everything is just thrown inside and there's some bubble wrap as an example.
But it does really make a difference, doesn't it?
When you receive a box and you open it up and everything's presented nicely, or the packaging is all recyclable, whatever it is, I think it really adds to the experience.
And I feel like, for me personally, I think the most memorable purchases I've made are the ones where actually what's on the inside of the packaging is more memorable, perhaps even than the outside.
You know that feeling when you open up a box and everything is just arranged beautifully, or it's unexpected, or there's a little message on the inside of the box or whatever it is. So I think that, yeah, the inside, I think you'll probably say, is as important as what's presented externally.
Denisa Parker:Yeah, absolutely. You said the word unexpected, and that's something that's exactly. It is these little surprise moments that make a memorable experience.
So, like you said, you open the box and you find a beautiful message on the inside.
Or instead of having your logo on that little sticker that holds the tissue paper together, perhaps you can have a brown tagline or a little message, you know, think of what would your customers want to hear or see at that specific time, and put that into beautiful messaging on that.
You know, all of these thank you cards, if you designed them beautifully, if you design them, thinking about your customers and when they want to see and kind of create layer on all of these things to create this kind of.
This very exciting experience, you know, and it creates, it creates this excitement for the customer and be like, oh, I cannot wait to, to use this product. They haven't even started using your product and they already so excited for it. And it creates all this anticipation.
And your customer already loves your product without having even used your product yet.
So you can just think of all these, you know, little things that you can do or even something else that you can do to create this low, like, surprise moment is the inside of a box. So if you have skincare packaging, whatever it is, it can be even food and beverage.
If you have a box, when your customers open the box, you can design the inside of it. This is something that I love to do for a lot of my clients is design the inside of it.
If you have a skincare brand, you can choose some, like, botanical illustrations, say these are the ingredients and this is what ingredients do, or create a beautiful pattern. Or you can use a lot of your brand elements to just kind of design the inside of that box. And it's something unexpected.
You know, your customers open it up and then they see it and like, oh, this is, you know, it creates a certain feeling when, when you open that up and it shows that you put so much care and thought into, into it.
You know, if you put so much care and thought into designing even the inside of a box, then it means that, wow, you know, this brand really does care about its product and its customers. It really puts a lot of thought and care and intention into everything that they do.
So it's a subtle thing, but it, you know, you can see that it already creates a lot of messaging and it creates a lot of thought about your, your business.
Vicki Weinberg:I love all of these ideas. Thank you. I hope everyone's writing all of these down. These are great.
And actually you mentioned brand then, and I think that's something we haven't really spoken about is how your brand aligns with your packaging.
Because I think when people talk about standing out on the shelf, for example, say, maybe in a supermarket, you can think, oh, maybe this color is good because people will spot it or whatever. It won't be different from the others. But of course, when you're designing your packaging, you already have your brand.
Unless you're designing your brand alongside your packaging. If you have a brand's identity already, what part does that play in your packaging?
Denisa Parker:So for me, I always design the branding and the packaging together because packaging is part of the branding. So for me, it's always, always made sense to design them together because the product packaging is the primary manifestation of your brand.
It is your brand, your packaging. So I always design them together.
But if you've already, for example, worked with the designer, they've chosen some fonts and some color palettes for you. And now you're thinking of your packaging, perhaps think about what you know, what feeling do you want to create for your customers?
Do you want them to feel excited when using your product? Do you want them to feel at ease? Do you want to give them inspiration? It can be all sorts of things. There isn't a right or wrong answer with this.
It's more a case of think about what you want them to feel and use those colors and fonts and layouts and all of these to create that feeling. And like you mentioned, choosing colors based on what your competitors are doing, I think that's also important.
And that's something that I always consider as well, is we look at who the competitors are and what they're doing. For example, you see in a lot of toothpaste brands, and not just because I recently want to buy some. And all of them, they're blue and reduced.
All of them, they all blue and red.
So if you're trying to stand out as a toothpaste brand, for example, you can absolutely go against that and try a different color, and that immediately would make you stand out.
Vicki Weinberg:That's really helpful. Thank you.
Denisa Parker:Does that answer the question? I feel like I have.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think the main thing that I took from that, and I hope everyone else else did, depending. So where you are in the journey of creating your product is to think about the packaging with the brand rather than as two separate things.
Because it sounds.
What I took from what you're saying is, if you think about it together and you think about the packaging being the key part of your brand, it's a lot easier than having branding and then thinking, how do I apply it to my packaging?
Denisa Parker:Absolutely.
Just to give an example, currently I'm working with a skincare brand, and part of their brand identity, who they are, their brand story is, currently they're just doing skincare, but their story is all about unwinding at the end of the day, creating these little rituals, skincare rituals, to help you relax and unwind and have slower evenings. And the name of the brand as well kind of means evening rain in French. So there's all of these.
These elements that we've tried to communicate through the branding and the packaging. So one of the ways that we're doing that is through color.
So I looked at a lot of references of, like, evenings and evening rains and all sorts of images like that. And some of the colors that have popped up are like this deep blue, deep purple.
Deep like deep dark purple that creates this kind of very relaxing feeling and it makes you feel like you can unwind and just like chill and like take a deep breath and these like very dark, peachy tones as well to make you feel very at ease and it's very relaxed. So you can think of all of these different ways to create certain feelings or to tell specific story through your, through your branding.
And you can see that all of these things that we've talked about, unwinding, relaxing, these are all part of the brand.
But the way we're communicating that comes to life in the packaging because the color, we're applying it to the packaging, of course, we're applying it to the logo and we're applying it to the website as well. But we're also applying it to the packaging so that it has. We have to consider packaging at the same time as we're designing the brand identity.
Because packaging is one of the biggest ways that your branding and your brand identity is going to come to life is through that product packaging.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you. That's a really good example. Thank you for sharing that.
Let's switch a little bit if it's okay to talk about sustainability, because I know this is something that very important to you. So let's start with talking about why is sustainability so important when it comes to packaging our products?
Denisa Parker:Well, I think the biggest reason sustainability is important is that it's now becoming a non negotiable for customers. So businesses and brands have to follow suit and they have to consider the impact that their packaging has on the planet.
It's also because packaging and single use plastic they have, they contribute enormously to pollution and to the current climate crisis that we're having.
So it's really important for business owners to consider the impact that product packaging has on the planet and to think about it quite carefully when they choose the packaging that they use.
You know, if your skincare, if your moisturizer lasts your customer three to four months, then why would the packaging, that moisturizer comes in, why would that last for 200 years?
You know, it just doesn't make sense when you think of it in that way, that the product itself lasts for however long, but the packaging lasts way, way beyond that.
So it's really important to consider what impact it has and what, you know, what your packaging is going to end up, where it's going to end up after your customer is done using the product. Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you. And you mentioned this as well, but I think it's also, isn't it about the customer perception?
Because I know that as a customer I'm really annoyed if I unwrap something and there's layers of bubble wrap or plastic and it's all going in my bin. I actually do find that really annoying because I just feel like, oh, it's no.
There's no need for it, especially now when we can recycle lots and lots of materials. I do almost feel a bit like an inconvenience to have all of these things that I have to throw away.
And on the other side of that, I absolutely love it when I have some packaging, as you mentioned earlier, that can be reused, whether it's a tin or a jar, and you can keep it and use it for something. There's something from.
I don't know if this is for everyone, but for me, there's something so satisfying about being able to keep something and use it, because there's almost always a purpose and I always feel a bit, oh, I don't need to buy something to hold my pens because I've got this lovely jar that a candle came in or whatever it is. I think that's just a really nice added thing.
Denisa Parker:Yeah, absolutely. It's. It comes down to making little strategic decisions, I guess, with your packaging. So think about.
One of the things I always like to do whenever we go through rebranding with my clients is we do an audit of their packaging, of the current packaging. I do always encourage them to use what they already have, even if it's not sustainable, even if it's plastic, even if it's single use plastic.
If you've bought it, please use it. I know it might sound a little bit counterintuitive, but please use it because you've already bought it, you've already spent money on it.
The resources used to make that product and to ship that product to you, that packaging to you have already been expended. So please use that packaging you already have.
And then when you're done with it, we can, you know, look at replacing it with a more sustainable alternative. But what we do is we audit everything that they have and we carefully think about every single item.
It might sound a bit tedious if you're doing it, you know, by yourself, but it's really so important. And you only have to do it once, really audit everything.
Every single piece of packaging, every single leaflet card, anything that you put in there, and think about it carefully and think about, do I really need this? Do I need to put five stickers on when one or two will make do?
Do I need to have three different thank you cards and business cards when I can just have one, have all of the information on there and anything that's not super, super important, maybe have a little QR code that sends them to a specific page on your website. I mean, yes, that page on the website does have a carbon footprint. I'm not saying that doesn't contribute at all to anything.
It does, but it's significantly less than having a piece of paper, a piece of, you know, thank you card printed, made, shipped to you and then shipped to the customer. So it's important to consider all of these.
So I would say audit everything, think of everything that you have and think about how you can make every swap a little bit more sustainable.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you. And I really, really like the fact you said, don't throw away everything you already have.
I would hate to think of anyone listening, thinking, oh no, I need to scrap everything and start again because as you say, you've already brought it, it's already been made. It's probably more waste to put it in the bin than it is to put it to use.
So as business owners, something we obviously have to consider is cost all of the time and keeping an eye on our margins. So I don't know whether making our packaging sustainable comes at a higher cost because I haven't looked at packaging for a long time.
But can, can you maybe share with us some ideas of sustainable packaging options that are also cost effective? Because I think for anyone, if they feel like, oh gosh, it's going to cost me more, it's going to affect my margins, that does make it harder.
So what are some ways we can do this without spending a lot more money?
Denisa Parker:I think it comes down to thinking about it again strategically, just thinking about it a bit carefully. Some sustainable packaging definitely is a lot more expensive still.
But packaging like recyclable packaging or recycled paper cardboard, they have very comparable or sometimes the exact same price as non recycled paper. I think it's, I haven't seen non recycled packaging, although I mainly look on, on, you know, companies that do provide that.
So that would be kind of the first starting point is look at recycled or recyclable packaging.
I think one thing would be to consider the actual size of the packaging that you need, specifically packaging to ship your products like those outer boxes. Think of the size that you need. Do you really need a really big box?
And I say this because, you know, I, we've seen, I can't remember the last time I ordered from Amazon, but we've, you know, all of these videos that sometimes I see these videos online of brands ordering from Amazon and they come in these massive, massive boxes when it's a tiny little product and consider the size of it. And that comes down on cost in a few ways.
One, because it's, you know, if it's a smaller box, then of course cheaper, you don't, you know, you don't have to pay for a much bigger box. You probably wouldn't have to pay for as much filler material.
Or if you can get your products to fit in there really snugly, you don't have to use any filler as well.
It cuts down on the resources needed to make that packaging because it needs less resources, smaller packaging because it's smaller, it's lighter, then it takes fewer resources to ship it to you, fewer resources to ship it to your customers. So if it is cheaper then to, you know, sorry, let me start the phrase again.
So if you've taken all these into consideration, then even if the box itself might be a little bit more expensive, say you pay five pounds more for this box that is more sustainably made, but then you cut down on all of the filler packaging, for example, then that might balance out the price of it. So it's something to consider. Something else that I like to suggest to my clients is branded tape.
And you can even get like water activated tape that doesn't use glue. Glue sometimes can be unsustainable. So water activated tape, I think no issue. Still does a really good one as well.
And it's a pretty decent price and you can use that to add, you know, sometimes branding creates that memorable experience that we've talked about to your packaging. It's more sustainable, but it doesn't cost the earth.
And you might also, you know, cut down on custom boxes, for example, if that's something that you're currently using or you're thinking of using.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
And of course, you mentioned as well, the first thing you spoke about was that maybe you can do less, so not have a thank you card, use less stickers. And I think even by reviewing, do I need all of these inserts or can I have one or whatever that also will have an impact on the costs.
Denisa Parker:Yeah, absolutely. And if I can give another example, is something we did just in terms of, you know, this balancing act as well is, I think it was last, last year.
Yes, I've worked with a brand, we did their unboxing experience as well.
So we, I designed a cotton, it was basically a cotton bag, similar to like a tote bag for them to use instead of the tissue paper and all of the wrappers, they were going to use those, like peanuts, packaging peanuts that dissolve in water, essentially, and tissue paper for their products. And instead we came up with the idea of using a cotton bag instead.
The upfront cost was a little bit higher than swapping these, but just to see what the reaction was, we thought, let's just use this, these cotton bags, just for their rebrand launch. So it was like a limited edition.
We didn't tell the customer, they didn't tell their customers that that's what they were going to get when they were going to get their product, just because we wanted to see, like, genuine reactions to them and see how the customers would perceive that. So you don't have to.
If you're thinking of doing something that's maybe a little bit more expensive or something different that you really want to do, it's really sustainable. It fits with your brand. You love doing it, but it's a little bit too expensive.
Consider doing a limited run like this, a specific launch, or if a customer orders above a certain amount, you know, a certain threshold, then you can use that packaging just to gauge the reaction that your customers have to that. The reaction, of course, was amazing. People loved it because, you know, it's, it's a cutting bag. It's something they weren't expecting, so it.
More memorable. It's something that they haven't seen their competitors do. Again, more memorable. It stands out and they. They're reusing it.
So it's great marketing because they're reusing it out and about. People see it, people look at it. It's beautifully designed, if I can say that, because I designed it, but, you know, it catches people's eyes.
It's a great marketing tool and it's definitely, you know, it was definitely more elevated than using packaging peanuts and tissue paper. It just feels more elevated. So. Sorry.
Vicki Weinberg:No, sorry. You carry on. I was just about to say how. What a great idea that was, but you guys.
Denisa Parker:So you carry on. No, I was just going to wrap up and say, consider all of these little elements. And sometimes it can be a bit of a balancing act.
It's why sometimes it helps to have a designer in your corner that knows these kinds of things.
Not every designer does packaging consultancy or looks into packaging materials, because I work with a lot of sustainable brands or brands that want to be more sustainable. I know a lot of my clients need that kind of guidance and consultancy, so I do provide that.
So not every designer does, but it's always so helpful to have a designer in your corner, or not just a designer, just a consultant in your corner that knows these things because they can help you come up with all of these clever ideas of how to have packaging that is, you know, does what you wanted to do is elevate it, is memorable, is sustainable, because sometimes it can be like a hard balancing act. It can be a little bit triangle where you're trying to catch all of the corners, but you can't.
So it helps to, you know, to have someone that you can bounce ideas off of and come up with different ideas for you.
Vicki Weinberg:Definitely. I think having support on something like this is invaluable because as we've covered in this episode, there's just so much to consider.
So your website and your socials are going to all be linked in the show notes this episode. If people are interested in working with you, they can easily use those links to find out more about what you do or perhaps reach out to you.
Thank you so much for everything you've shared. I have one final question before we end, if that's okay.
Denisa, which, what would your number one piece of advice be when it comes to packaging our products?
Denisa Parker:It's something that I've touched on a little bit. But don't underestimate the power that design has on your packaging. It's so, so important. Your packaging is more than your logo and the brand name.
It needs to tell a story to create a certain feeling for your customers, to create a connection with your customers, because that's what's going to help them make a decision whether your product is for them or not, and help them make that decision whether they want to buy it or not. So think carefully about the colors, the fonts, the layouts that you use.
You can hire a designer, absolutely, if you want to, but sometimes you just can't afford that, and that's absolutely fine. Some things that you can do if you do want to elevate your packaging or, you know, your packaging needs work, is start simple. Start with.
Start looking into colors and into color psychology and think about what do what your customers want to feel and look into creating a color palette around those colors. Same with fonts. What do you want your customers to feel?
There's so many resources online that break down different types of fonts and what they each communicate and all of that. So definitely start looking into things like that. If you're unsure or if you feel overwhelmed and you just don't know where to start.
Just start simple and work your way through every single element that's so helpful.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much again, Denisa.
Denisa Parker:Thank you. It was a pleasure talking to you. I could talk about packaging and sustainability forever.
Vicki Weinberg:It's so interesting and there's so much to cover. So. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. Thank you so much.
Denisa Parker:Of course. My pleasure.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for listening. Right to the end of this episode, do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg.com.
please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it, and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.
