Host Joseph Grech sits down with Jenn Fenwick, an accomplished leadership coach specialising in transitions. Jenn shares her journey from a corporate career to launching her own coaching business, inspired by her experiences in sports coaching and overcoming personal challenges.

Jenn delves into the core aspects of her coaching practice, highlighting her work with leaders in STEM industries. She discusses the unique challenges faced by these leaders during transitions, including international assignments, and her strategies for helping them navigate these changes effectively. Jenn emphasises the importance of reflecting on past achievements to build confidence and create a compelling vision for the future.

Tune in for an inspiring and informative conversation that offers practical advice and encouragement for anyone leading through transitions.

Hi everyone, and welcome on today's episode of Coaching in Focus.

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My name is Joseph and I'm the founder of

Become, which is a coaching qualification

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organization and Training Provider and

today I am super excited to welcome Jennn

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Fenwick, who is a friend, a colleague, an

overall awesome person who I've known for

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many years, who is an executive coach.

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Jennn and I met, I think it

must be over 10 years ago.

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It can't be.

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We have not changed at all.

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In body, in spirit, or in mind.

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Jenn: Exactly, I know, exactly.

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We've not matured.

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Joseph: And as a bit of an introduction

for those of you who might not know Jenn,

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Jenn is a brilliant executive coach.

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I know that Jenn, you call yourself

the queen of leadership transitions.

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I know, I know.

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No, I love it.

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I love it.

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And it's, it's, it kind of

encapsulates what you do, right?

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Because that's your focus.

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You support leaders, uh,

transition, uh, in their roles.

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And that's what we, what, that's what

we're going to be focusing on today.

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So maybe, shall we start with that, Jenn?

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Can you tell us a little bit more

about your background and what led

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you to focus on leadership transition?

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Jenn: A really nice process to even

reflect on it, you know, because

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we don't really stop to look,

you know, look back at a journey.

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So it's nice to think about.

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I mean, I actually started

coaching first in the sporting

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world, like many moons ago.

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I grew up in New Zealand.

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So, you know, as a, as a Kiwi

kid growing up in New Zealand,

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I played loads of sport.

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Um, first started coaching

netball, the age of 16.

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So, so coaching has been in my blood.

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Um, you know, I did organizational

psychology at uni, but I always had the

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sense of, you know, the role I could

play in helping people and teams, you

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know, realize and reach their potential.

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I loved it.

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Went to work for a wine company and then

eventually found my way into my more

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professional, more professional career.

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Um, and I was working, Corporate

career for about, I think about 15

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years in the pharmaceutical world,

the pharma and biotech companies.

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And a lot of what I was doing was

working with organizations on how

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to find the best people, you know,

how do we attract top talent?

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And I loved it, you know, to identify

people and then looking at how do we

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support their growth and development?

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How do we create career paths

for those people to retain them?

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I loved it.

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Yeah.

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And all of the roles in my

corporate career coaching was

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kind of that thread throughout.

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Um, you know, I love working with leaders

on how to again, push the boundaries,

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how to help them get clear on what those

bold next level moves were and build

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their confidence around their careers.

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And I love that.

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I guess giving even a little bit of

context about even launching my business.

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I, I had been coaching, actually, we did

a coaching course together many moons ago.

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Um, again, really to kind of push

my own boundaries and really to

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solidify that coaching experience

more in an organizational form.

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I think around that time I

found out I had breast cancer.

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So, you know, I'd had this

corporate career, um, and I loved

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it, but I had this curveball.

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It's funny because I say

curveball, but it's probably

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quite an understatement, isn't it?

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When I decided that at that moment, when

I came back from treatment to, you know,

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I was feeling really bold and courageous.

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I was riding this wave of kind of courage.

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And, uh, and when I Really

reflected on what I wanted

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my next chapter to look like.

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Everything came back to coaching.

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Ben came home from work one

day and I said, I'm quitting my

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corporate leadership career and I'm

setting up my coaching business.

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And he was like, did you open

a bottle of wine at lunchtime?

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Like what's just happened here?

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There's no wine involved in that decision.

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But, uh, you know, I decided it was just.

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One of those moments of clarity

of, you know, I'm going to do this.

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I mean, everything I love is coaching.

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How do I set up a business and do this?

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And I just went for it.

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So my previous employer, you know,

and, um, fortune 500 clinical research

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company became my first client.

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So it was awesome.

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Um, but you know, from, you

know, with your background, yes.

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Coaching is.

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Awesome.

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And so many scenarios, you know, it's

just a game changer in so many scenarios,

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but when you're setting up a coaching

business, it's tricky to market it because

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you can have it, there's so many uses.

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So in those early months of having

my business, I decided to be a little

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bit playful and I thought, you know, I

need to take the pressure off finding

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So I really started saying yes to

different things in different scenarios,

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that intersection of team who needed

me and who I loved working with.

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And then obviously that wider piece

of where can I actually really

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build a business around this?

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And it was really interesting

because, um, in the first six months,

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the number one group of leaders

that would come to me for support.

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coaching support were leaders who

were just starting, just about

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to start new leadership roles.

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Or maybe they were in those early

months of new leadership roles.

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Um, and I was hearing the

same thing I was hearing.

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I'm really excited.

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I've got this bold new role.

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I've said yes to this kind

of next level position.

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Um, but on the other hand, I'm

also wondering, have I bitten

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off more than I can chew?

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What have I failed?

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Um, All this kind of, you know, like

the very human emotional role of,

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um, and I was hearing this a lot and

I loved working with those leaders.

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I absolutely loved working with them

to kind of, you know, navigate that

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internal narrative, you know, so

really, you know, that kind of self

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leadership, that self narrative piece.

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Um, I loved working with them to kind

of break through that and set themselves

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up for success in their new roles to

really cut through that overwhelm.

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Because you and I know, you

know, when you start a new.

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role, regardless of level.

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It's like, you know, one of

the most stressful life events.

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Joseph: Yeah.

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And I feel it's also harder sometimes

when it is senior level, because

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there's less people who you can really,

you don't want to be kind of, um,

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entering a new position going, I'm

feeling like I'm not sure what to do.

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But actually a lot of us, when we're

entering new roles, irrelevant of

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level, we have that feeling, we have

that insecurity that kind of pops up.

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And

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Jenn: I think this is the area that.

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We underestimate and we don't talk

about as well is the kind of that

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psychological impact of growth and

change because starting a new role,

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you know, um, and again, at leadership

level, it's significant, you know,

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it's high challenge, you know, high

opportunity, high complexity, our internal

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narrative can all that kind of deep

rooted fears and anxieties and worries

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really start to come to the surface.

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A lot of our kind of baggage

and old stories and beliefs

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again, kind of get louder.

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Um, because actually, you know,

our brains want to kind of keep

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us in the kind of status quo.

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So it kind of, it's like, it's hard

because you already got this learning

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curve and you've got everything you're

doing externally and internally,

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your brain's throwing everything

at you to be like, Hey, let's just

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kind of stay back in that, you know,

we were comfortable back there.

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So there's a lot to navigate.

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Joseph: Yeah.

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And that's where you come in Jenn.

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I was thinking, who needs a Jenn?

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We all need a Jenn in our life.

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Tell us about, I mean, I'm getting a

bit of a feel and obviously I know you

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and we know each other, but for our

audience, who are some of the typical

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clients who you might work with?

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Jenn: So yes, in my background,

I kind of spent about 20

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years working with students.

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It's not limited to STEM.

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I get people coming external,

but a lot of it's, you know,

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pharmaceutical companies, biotech,

tech, you know, that type of company.

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But primarily now I'm working,

organizations loop me in

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to work for their leaders.

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They invest in their leaders.

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Um, I still do work with some leaders who

come and invest out of their own pocket.

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Often it may be their first

time in a strategic level role.

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I love a juicy transition.

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So when there's a big kind

of learning curve, I love it.

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When you move into your first strategic

leadership role, that's quite a

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tricky mindset shift, you know, that

way of operating that evolution of

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even your identity as a person and

a leader is a big shift, you know,

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all the way through to kind of, I've

worked with first time CEOs now.

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So I love a first time.

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I But when there's kind of a big step as

far as, you know, that evolution piece

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of who you are and how you operate.

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And

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Joseph: you know, we touched

upon this a little bit.

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I'm thinking about some of the challenges

that these individuals might bring.

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And one of them could be the sense of that

psychological fear or insecurity that they

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might, somebody might feel in such a role.

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Um, but what are some

of the other challenges?

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Jenn: Yeah, I mean, definitely.

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As you say, it's kind of that

internal narrative, the fears,

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the worries, the anxieties.

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But I mean, if you look

at Starting a new role.

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Now I work with leaders who are

maybe being internally promoted.

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That can be quite tricky because

often I'm working with leaders and

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they're still doing their old job.

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You know, so, Hey, I'm still doing

that role because we're trying to

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find my success or we're trying to

recruit someone, but actually I've

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officially started my new role.

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So you think there's, there's

a whole lot of overwhelm.

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There's a lot of moving pieces.

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I pull leaders out of the busy ness.

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And I feel like I'm a bit of a protector

of headspace, you know, to help them

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kind of cut through the noise, cut

through the overwhelm, look at what's,

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you know, the best way forward,

you know, so that can be, that's

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a really tricky thing to navigate.

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It's just the sheer level

of moving parts and newness.

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Joseph: I find this really interesting

because I'm thinking, do you find in

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some leaders also have a fear of letting

go, like letting go of their old self?

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For, you know, how they used

to view themselves in a way.

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Jenn: Definitely.

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That's one of the most

challenging as well, because

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there's, it's that evolution.

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And I think one of the pillars I look

at with leaders is that next level

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identity, because there's a real shift

on how you see yourself, how you want

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others to see the way you're operating,

you know, actually that evolution.

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to be a success in that new role.

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What is needed of you?

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Like, what is that personal evolution?

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That's really, really tricky to know,

because we get comfortable and it's

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the path of least resistance to stay

where we are and operate how we are.

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And that can really trip up leaders.

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Because if you think you're actually

needing to operate at this new level,

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you know, that can trip them up.

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And I think that's a big part of

what I focus on as well is actually

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Pulling them out to look at,

right, okay, look, this is Duke.

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Big vision, you know, this is

the compelling vision that we're

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building, you know, actually to

achieve that what's needed of

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you, like who are you as a leader?

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Who do you need to be?

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You know, what's that kind of, I

can, if I use that word evolution

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a lot, but you know, and really

being conscious about that.

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Joseph: Yeah.

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I that's so interesting, isn't it?

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Because there's also, I suppose, other

people as well, getting used to the

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leaders, perhaps even not just within the

organisation, but even family members.

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And the leader, the relationships

that they might have outside of

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work because they're changing,

they're in a process of change.

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And

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Jenn: this is why it's uncomfortable, you

know, and I think it's so critical to have

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a support crew, have a robust support crew

around you during those times, because

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it is, it's uncomfortable, it's new.

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You know, you can fall into kind of

overthinking doubt why it needs to,

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you know, why it's great to have people

around you just to keep you in check,

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you know, so absolutely, you know,

and that there are so many things.

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I think you asked, you know,

what are some of the challenges?

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I think again, you know, I work with

a lot of leaders who may be making.

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And for the last few years, we're

seeing a lot more kind of international

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assignments again, you know, I love

those, but if you think about that,

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it's not just a new role for a leader,

it's, you know, it's new culture, you

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know, there's a whole new, you know,

potentially, um, the one, even within

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that, not just the geographical culture,

but that maybe that new organized culture.

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The new office or country's culture

slash politics, the relationships when

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I, sometimes I get my leaders to just

write down, like they'll say, Jenn,

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I'm feeling completely overwhelmed.

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I'll just be like, just for a

second, like just write down

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everything that's new in this.

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And then they'll be like, ah, okay,

because there's a lot, there's a lot,

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Joseph: you know, um, Yeah, there

is this adjustment, isn't it, this,

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this change that we're going through.

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Is the, you mentioned, um, kind of,

one of the, perhaps, things that

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you might do is ask a leader to just

write everything down that is new.

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Are there some other kind of tips or some

things that you could share with us that

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can support leaders who are in a period of

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Jenn: transition?

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Yeah, I mean, yes, absolutely, writing

things, looking at everything that's new.

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But I think one of the key things

that really helps, because I

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think often it's this kind Thanks.

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You'll be excited about the role, but

then it's on one hand you can feel like

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you were excited about everything and

then you're also fearful, you know,

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excitement and fear, it's so closely

related anyway, but I think even just

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taking a step back, like, protect.

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Time and space because I think there

can be especially if you're wanting

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to prove yourself and Try to break out

of that kind of proving mentality and

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just kind of kind of come back to that

Really strong foundations and that kind

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of inner trust, you know, you will make

this work But I think having first of

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all, you know making sure that you have

time and space to to Take a step back,

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you know, through that transition for

your first kind of 90 days, first six

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months, create pockets of spaciousness.

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Um, that was why I always get

leaders right at the start to

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be like, let's, before we focus

forward, let's reflect back, like

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reflect back to launch forwards.

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Because I think what we can do

is start to focus so much on

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everything that we need to do.

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Do and learn and how far away we

are from that, that people start

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to feel anxious and worried.

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So I always get leaders at the start

to just like, let's just take a

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moment to look at how far you've come.

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Let's look at what are you proud of?

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What challenges have you overcome?

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You know, what legacy have you

left in your previous roles?

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And even five, 10 minutes

looking at all those things.

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And then I just see

leaders shoulders drop.

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They kind of just take

up a bit more space.

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And I even, I spoke to, I was

working with an HR leader earlier in

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the year, we ran through this very

short exercise, like before we got

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focused on, you know, the future.

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And she was like, do you

want this so much evidence?

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To suggest and back up the fact I

am going to make a success of this.

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Um, so I think that's, I, I would start

with just that, you know, and remembering

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why, why did you take on this role, you

know, what is it that excited you to

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kind of keep grounded in that before

you actually start to cling forward.

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Um, so I kind of do like the

reflect back ground down in that.

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In a trust confidence in your incredible

capacity to learn and grow and navigate

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what's coming and then I'll get them

to fling way into the future, right?

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So let's build that compelling

vision of the future.

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You know, like, what do we, again,

we're grounded, but what's going

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to kind of, what's exciting,

you know, what's that kind of.

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Ambition and aspiration that's

going to really, um, set a fire

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within us, you know, motivate us.

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And I think that's one thing that

people don't do enough of as well

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as they don't build that kind of

compelling vision of the future.

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And I, you know, coming from

the sporting world, we're

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really big into visualization.

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So, um, and in coaching as well,

when transformation, you know,

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like so powerful and then let's

reverse engineer it from that role.

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Yeah.

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That

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Joseph: links in actually to something

that we were talking about before we got.

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Recording the podcast knowing why we

created our businesses and why what

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we want to do with our businesses And

I guess it's the same with leaders.

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You mentioned that helping the leader

understand their why why they have

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stepped up their role What they want to

get out of this role can be also really

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powerful because there's a celebration

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Jenn: Absolutely, you know, and

we don't celebrate enough Just in

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general, and leaders are rubbish at it.

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A lot of it is actually,

okay, what's the strategy?

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Okay.

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What we're focused on.

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What's the next deliverable?

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What's the next meeting?

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What have we not done?

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How do we course correct?

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Are we firefighting?

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You know, all that stuff.

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There's just, I mean, I speak to leaders.

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I think this again, you know, you

and I know the value of coaching is

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plucking people out of the business.

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Just celebrate, like

actually, what's going well?

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What are you proud of?

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What are you shifting forward?

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And we don't stop to celebrate

or reflect on the good.

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Did

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Joseph: you know that at Become, we offer

a number of different coach training

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programs to people just like you?

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If you're new to coaching, there is a

Level 1 Diploma in Integrative Coaching.

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If you've been coaching for a while,

or perhaps you're already an ACC coach,

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then we have the Advanced Diploma.

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in Integrative Coaching, which leads all

the way to the PCC credential by the ICF.

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We also have a number of CPD

programs and certificates,

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including mentoring and supervision.

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To find out more, go to tobecome.

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org or just check the show notes.

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You know, reflecting back, I

wish I had a coach when I was

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transitioning between different roles.

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When I became a manager for the first

time, When I was, uh, at director

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level and I didn't have that and

it would have have made Such a

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difference to have somebody there

just to share my experience through

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to help me out in certain situations.

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Jenn: And I hear that so, so much,

but it's, I'm exactly the same as you.

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I think I remember moving into a role.

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I was a global director.

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And I remember thinking, Oh my

goodness, like I was so excited by this.

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I remember like the interview

process and being in my zone.

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And I was like, I just, I was like,

Oh, I really feel like I nailed that.

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Like, and then I remember

starting and then everyone was

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like, okay, what's your vision?

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What's your strategy?

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What's it, you know, how much

budget do you need allocated?

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And I remember being like, Oh

my God, I'm so out my deck.

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Thinking, oh my goodness.

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The negative thinking starts coming in.

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And so like all that stuff.

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And then the next part is you kind

of think the very fact I'm doubting

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myself, that means that I'm not

gonna make a success of this.

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You know?

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So you, the whole narrative

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Joseph: go on as rollercoaster, you

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Jenn: know?

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And that that took so much time

and so much wasted time and energy.

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And then it's funny because then when

I started coaching leaders, you know.

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Of all levels, you know, like executives

and they were saying the same things.

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Like they were like, I shouldn't

be feeling like this because

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I've got so much experience.

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You know, I'm an, I'm an executive

and I'm having these thoughts and

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fears and worries and being able

to actually say, Hey, you're not

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alone, but we don't talk about it.

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You know, because again, you starting

a new role, you're not going to tell.

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your peers, how you feel

like I'm out of my depth.

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Joseph: Yeah, exactly.

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And not everyone is as, I mean, I find

as coaches, and I'm sure you'll agree,

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we're, we're a reflective bunch of people.

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We tend to think and reflect and we're

fairly emotionally intelligent, I

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suppose, I hope, but that's sometimes

when I'm working with clients and.

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And they say, you know, they

start differentiating who they

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are from what they think they

are, from who they think they are.

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And they start noticing their

thinking patterns as just a thought.

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And they can actually disagree with it.

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I remember I was coaching somebody.

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Um, and they came in talking

about how they felt like an

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imposter, felt like a phony.

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Um, why did the organization promote me?

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They actually applied because they

wanted the organization to turn them

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down so that they would feel comfortable.

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They're like, yes, I

wasn't ready for that.

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And they got the job.

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And that's how they

engaged into that coach.

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And then they, they paused and it was

like session three and four and went,

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wait a minute, I'm thinking these things.

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But actually, are they real?

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And it's the same, that reflective process

that you said, reflecting on the past.

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And it's beautiful when

you see that, right?

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Jenn: This is the privilege that you

and I have as coaches, to see that.

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Like, one of the key pillars,

again, I work with in Leaders in

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Transition is self leadership.

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You know, and that is, you know,

managing, how important it is to

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manage yourself if you want to.

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Positively lead others, you know, like,

and, and part of that is, you know, not

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just on your kind of health and wellbeing,

but being able to catch thoughts, you

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know, challenge your own narrative,

because I love the power of storytelling.

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And I think one of the most important

stories that we tell is the one we

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tell ourselves during growth and change

that really needs to be challenged

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because, uh, again, as we've spoken

about, you know, our mind throws

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up all the kind the less positive.

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A cool example of that is I was

working with a woman and she,

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she was, you know, a global head.

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She was probably, you know, a couple

of roles off, you know, retirement.

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So she was, you know, had incredible

experience, you know, um, I knew of her

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through reputation before I got to work

with her, you know, she's just wonderful.

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But when she started this role, this

new role, when she was talking about

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it, she was like, I'm not sleeping

at night, Jenn, you know, I feel like

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I'm not speaking up and, you know,

In meetings, I'm, you know, she was

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just like, Oh, what is wrong with me?

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And, you know, and the further we

kind of explored it, she said, I

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feel like I'm worried that they're

going to find out that I'm just not

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right for this role, you know, but

even just being able to get curious

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that you and I are naturally curious.

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And this is, you know, and just

getting curious around that.

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It was when she was in, I think she was in

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first jobs in the pharmaceutical world.

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Um, and her.

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First manager had said to her, um,

you, you don't have a medical degree.

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And her, her role was quite

medical in her function.

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Um, because you don't, not

a medic by training, you're

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never going to get very far.

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If you think about it, it's

just like the least supportive

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thing you could possibly say.

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But when we talked, she was like,

it's because of that, that one

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conversation over 20 years ago.

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And she said, Jenn, do you know what,

every time I move into a new role,

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that's something that I've been carrying

and I've not been able to specify the

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moment, you know, where it all came from.

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And she was like, and so we kind

of, you know, there's, you know,

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having a conversation with her

younger self, you know, and being

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able to go back to a younger self and

being like, honestly, don't worry.

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You know, things are going to be

better than you ever imagined.

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And then it was just like, that's, Just

that release of that baggage, but that's

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the type of stuff that comes up during

growth and change and why we need to, you

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know, not believe everything we think.

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Challenge.

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Joseph: Yeah, yeah.

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I can resonate with that.

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I remember when one of my first

roles, I had similar type of feedback

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and you hold it for a long time.

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And when in the role after that,

my line manager, At the time

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promoted me pretty quickly.

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I felt like What I mean, I was so happy,

but also I was thinking oh Maybe the

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other manager wasn't right about me,

you know and you kind of start and

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that's the narrative that you build and

the power that other people can have

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particularly when you You know when

you're 19 20 21 starting in your career.

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Jenn: I think similar to this if you

think about from a societal Now we're

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brought up, everything's about external

validation, and this is a really

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tricky one to kind of unpick and key

for leaders as they progress is that,

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you know, I'm conscious being a mom

to, you know, with my kids, I, I keep

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saying, Oh, darn, you know, and I can

see them like, they love it, you know,

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they love, Oh, your poppy brings a

piece of, uh, you know, something she's

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drawn and I'm like, Oh, that's amazing.

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And I'm like, but then I've had to

keep remembering, you know, I'm,

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uh, I'm proud of how you did it.

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You know, the process to get there, you

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Joseph: know, we

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Jenn: go through school, you know, we

get marks on, even earlier in your role,

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it's about the output, you know, we're

so conditioned for external validation.

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Um, this can often be really tricky

again for leaders and transition.

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When they're moving to the

kind of more senior roles.

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Yeah.

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There's no one dedicated to be like

checking on, on you every day and

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being like pat on the back, well done.

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So you have to be self validate.

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Um, and then that kind of comes into

that, you know, self leadership piece.

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So this is just, so when you ask what

are the challenges, it's, it's complex.

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Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And

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Joseph: it's,

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Jenn: I love, I love kind

of laying everything on the

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table and I'm picking it.

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And then cutting through it, you

know, like, let's just park it.

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What we, what are we leaving behind,

you know, where are we going,

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you know, and how do we get there

in that kind of flow, you know?

483

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Joseph: Well, Jenn, I've, I've

just noticed the time and we're

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getting quite close towards the

end of our podcast episode today.

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I know, I know, I know.

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It's so lovely talking to you.

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And I am sure that our listeners We

really value this episode because I'm

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sure we can resonate, like a lot of our

lessons will also resonate with your

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clients and with ourselves, whether

we have a coach listening or a client

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listening, you can really empathize

with that feeling of transitions

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and moving it to a different role.

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So for being here.

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Oh no, thanks,

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Jenn: what a joy.

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Next time we catch up, we

have to have a gin for sure.

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Joseph: Sounds good.

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Sounds good.

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Maybe another podcast episode as well.

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Oh, I'd love it,

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Jenn: love it.

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I'll interview you.

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There we go.

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I know, right?

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Joseph: Sounds good.

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We've got a plan.

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Thank you,

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Jenn.