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Gen Z and the Future of the Church
Episode 16 • 24th September 2023 • Listening for Clues • On the Journey with Jon & Lauren
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Gen Z and the Future of the Church

We are honored to have Brother Christian Ventura, O.P. who speaks about his co-vocational call to the Dominican monastic order and the Episcopal diaconate. Christian talks about the future of the church, especially as related to the "diaconal hearts" of Gen Z.

Highlights

00:00 Gen Z and the Future of the Church

00:00 Introduction

01:21 Being a Dominican Friar

03:20 Working in Emergency Medicine

04:45 Symbolism of the Habit

06:57 Why a Deacon

08:08 The Future of the Church

11:36 Gen Z and the Church

15:12 Obstacles in the Path

17:08 Contact Information

19:00 Final Words

19:39 Thanks

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Br. Christian's Facebook page

Listening for Clues is pleased to present our new series, "Good News!" featuring weekly conversations with people who are making a difference, large or small. We want everyone to know what they are doing, why they are doing it, and how. So, our listeners and viewers can experience the good news and go out and make a difference themselves.

Listening for Clues invites you into conversations that discover clues, rather than solutions to life’s problems. Join the journey with Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch, Episcopal deacons, as we explore whatever lies ahead. Check our website Listening for Clues.

© 2023 Listening for Clues

Transcripts

Speaker:

Music

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Jon: Welcome to Good News, being

brought to you by Listening for Clues.

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Lauren: We are Lauren Welch and

Jon Shematek, deacons in the

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Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

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Jon: We sure are, and today we have a

special guest, Brother Christian Ventura.

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Brother Christian is a simple professed

Dominican friar in the Priory of St.

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Simeon and John, and a postulant

for the vocational diaconate in

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the Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.

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Previously, he has served as an

advanced EMT, that's emergency medical

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technician, and public health scientist

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he is passionate about engaging

the diaconal heart of Gen Z,

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inclusive Anglo catholicism, healing

ministry, and monastic hospitality.

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Welcome, Christian.

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Christian: Thank you so much.

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I appreciate it.

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Thank you for having me.

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Lauren: We are delighted to have you

with us today, Christian especially as a

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postulant in the Deacon Formation program

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I've waited for years to have

someone your age come and be with

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us, so I am, ecstatically happy.

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But first, tell us about

your being a Dominican friar.

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Christian: That's a great question.

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Yeah, a lot of people don't know

that monasticism still exists in

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the 21st century aside from Roman

Catholic nuns or Buddhist monks.

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And so I always appreciate it

when people inquire about, , what

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does it mean to be a friar today?

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And so there's this new...

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Monastic movement, where in just

in the past century or so, we've

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been reinvigorating how we can

live out monastic rules of life.

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And so as a Dominican, I live the rule

of life of Saint Augustine, which was...

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the rule that was given to St.

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Dominic and being a friar looks like

different things for different people.

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As a dispersed friar myself, my brothers

and sisters all live it on our own most

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of us have secular roles but yet we

have a consecrated life and so it's very

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different than either being a member of.

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The laity or being a clergy person it's

one has been set apart to consecrate their

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life, to, to prayer and contemplation.

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And particularly in the Dominican charism.

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It's to preaching, to preaching

and to dedicated to pursuing the

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truth and, and preaching the gospels

throughout all ends of the earth.

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Jon: Well, that's great.

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And that certainly is a wonderful

link to being called to be a deacon.

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In the church as well.

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Preaching is an element of that, certainly

the social justice aspect is there.

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You also, and you also

were, At one point, an EMT.

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And what was that like?

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Christian: Yeah.

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So I've worked just a little over four

and a half years as an advanced EMT.

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I worked in Boston and then in

rural Vermont for a little bit.

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When my husband was a student at

Vermont law school so we were in this

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really rural area and I was able to

take care of some pretty decently

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sick people injured by agricultural

vehicles and things like that.

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It was a really good experience for me.

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, I really enjoyed emergency

medical services.

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I enjoyed taking care of patients and

being with people when they were in

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really and I think that that was a

little bit of a foreshadow to, to what

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I would later explore was my religious

vocation and my vocation to the diaconate.

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It certainly inspired how I

think about our relationship.

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Yeah, so I definitely learned a

lot, especially working in the

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context of the COVID pandemic.

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There was a lot I had to learn there

and taking care of people for goodness.

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We were so rural that I would sometimes

need to be taking care of a patient.

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for an hour to get to the nearest hospital

and wearing a bunch of this PPE on me.

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, I like to think that that was a

foreshadow to , being accustomed to

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wearing a lot of things because wearing

a habit in the summer is something

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that you have to be accustomed to

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Jon: yeah, especially a

summer in Baltimore I'm rather

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interested in the habit too.

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I guess it has primarily a

symbolic purpose, is that right?

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Christian: Yeah, so the habit that

I'm wearing right now is the simple

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Dominican habit, and it's essentially

a tunic underneath, and then I have

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my scapular here, which has been,

has been consecrated by a bishop and

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then I have my capuche, or a cowl,

medieval cowl, sometimes they're called.

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And I'm also wearing a cincture,

which is just a leather belt.

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And my 50 decade rosary.

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Wow.

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And there's a big significance to that.

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So, so partly because the

habit was given to St.

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Dominic in a dream we believe by

the Blessed Virgin Mary herself.

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As well as the Rosary, and something

that, , you see as Dominican Friars, where

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even those that are Episcopalian, because

not a lot of Episcopalians pray the

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Rosary, or it's part of their piety, but

specifically for Dominicans , it's a big

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part of the devotion, because we believe

that it was first introduced to St.

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Dominic by the Blessed Virgin

Mary herself, specifically as

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a tool to use for world peace.

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And so, one of St.

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Dominic's favorite quotes was Instead

of taking up a sword, take up prayer.

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And we remind ourselves by, by having our

rosary on our left side, where usually

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one would carry a sword would be to, , we

should use prayer instead of violence.

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And that's a big part of the

inspiration for the habit.

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When any of the friars or sisters are

out and we're representing the Order, you

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might see us wear black, and so we wear a

black magna capa on top in addition to a

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black capuche, and that reminds us that,

, our life is consecrated, that we have to

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conduct ourselves in a way that

is appropriate to the order that's

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how in England the Dominican

Friars were coined Black Friars.

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And if you go to London today, you will

notice that there is a Black Friars

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pub, which is where an old friary was.

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Lauren: So, I'm, I'm curious

Christian where do you see

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your your vocation as a deacon?

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Christian: Yeah, that's a great question.

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, I, I was pulled to the diaconate for

for a lot of reasons, but I think

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primarily because , I was told by one

of my former mentors Deacon Natalie

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Conway, she says that I can quote

her on this, and she had said to me

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something that I'll never forget.

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She said, the Episcopal Church is now

more diaconal than it ever has been

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and I just continue to contemplate and

think about that to this day just, just

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how important about what that means.

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And also this generation is Generation

Z in particular, a lot of young folks,

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, value social justice, value reparations,

value truth and reconciliation.

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And, , I like to think that at the

core of the spirituality of Generation

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Z is a deacon's beating heart.

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And so I just think that, , right now

is, is a great time for people to discern

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calls to the diaconate, especially with,

with where the church is going and,

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and all of, , the initiatives that a

lot of great people are, are running.

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, Jon: I'm not asking you to speak

for an entire generation of people.

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You'll be speaking primarily for yourself.

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But I'm very curious, , those of us

who are in organized religion, whether

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it's the Episcopal Church or some other

form of religious expression, Christian

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or otherwise, have concerns about

how the church itself Can stay alive.

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Hmm.

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Our, our forms are a, the ancient

forms, which I'm sure you embrace

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to some great extent no longer speak

to people in our age our music may

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not speak to people in our age.

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And I guess I'm just kind of tacking

on to what you said about Gen Z having

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a diaconal heart, and that is, to me,

that's not good news, that's great news.

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What do you think the church, if there

is anything that the church needs to do?

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to engage younger people is it

something that just needs to

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evolve in a different way or, , say

goodbye to us old folks and move on?

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Christian: I'm so glad that you asked

because , In speaking with a lot of

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folks in my generation and Episcopalians

and other Christian denominations, I

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learned a lot that was surprising to me.

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And one of the biggest

surprises to me was that...

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There are a ton of queer identifying

folk that lean more towards

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an Anglo Catholic orientation.

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And I was shocked about this, but we've

begun to learn is that , a lot of queer

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folks that are, that are attracted to

Anglo Catholicism and high church worship

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is that these were sacraments that they

would have never imagined they would

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be able to be in a safe space and have.

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And so, when I got married to my

husband just two months ago June,

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July, August, just two months ago, we

had a very Catholic looking wedding.

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And mostly because...

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Him and I would have never imagined

that we would say the Nicene

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Creed at our wedding and have the

Eucharistic prayer happen in such

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a way with the beautiful language.

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And so I definitely think that there

are a ton of young folks who admire

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and appreciate the traditional

aspect of the Episcopal Church.

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And I think that , there is some worth in

retaining that component, that liturgy,

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because it does speak to a lot of people,

and I think in some cases, can actually

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be a pretty strong point of attraction,

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.

At Grace and St.

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Peter's, we're an Anglo Catholic parish

in the diocese, and we have a lot of

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young folks who are, of traditionally

marginalized, , identities, and they feel

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a space here in a very Cramerian language

type, right one, east facing mass.

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And it's beautiful.

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It's not, it certainly is, is not

always expected, but it's beautiful.

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In terms of what our church, , what the

church is called to do, , I personally

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think that The Church has a responsibility

to support people in discerning

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vocations for their baptismal ministry.

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Whether that looks like, , ordained

ministry, or whether that is

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diaconal ministry as a layperson.

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I mean, even in the laity, the laity

are called to do, , diaconal ministry,

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as all of us are think that what

that might look like is to empower

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Gen Z in what it is they already do.

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And so, you see, , that, Gen Z folks are

very vocal about what they care about.

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And are preaching, not necessarily

from their pulpit, but they're

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preaching from Twitter, now X.

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. A ton of opportunities where people

are being very vocal about what they

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care about and are dedicated to truth.

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And I think that if the church can

help in some ways speak that language

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and engage people in, in areas that

Gen Z has already almost mastered in a

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sense, , these, these online tools and

this digital evangelism , I think that,

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that there's a lot of in the recent

It's All About Love Festival, I attended

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this wonderful workshop with Reverend

Riley, which was TikTok Evangelism, and

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we had shared that , she has been able

to connect people to churches that are

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safe spaces for people, not just in the

Episcopal Church, but locally through

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other denominations too, , this is a way

that The church can give back, not just

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for our Episcopalian tradition, but also

for the entirety of the body of Christ.

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So, , I have a lot of optimism.

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I have a, I have a lot of hope.

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Jon: That's great Hope.

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And hope is supposed to be

one of the big things that the

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church offers to people, ? It is.

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You also made me think that if the

church is truly following Jesus in

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the way of love and Gen Z folks, or.

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following the way of love,

whether they're seeing it as the

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way that Jesus pointed or not.

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We're at least on a parallel path,

and we are together in that way.

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So that's that's a reassuring and

hopeful message to me, Christian.

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Thank you for that.

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Christian: Absolutely.

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, I think when, when Presiding Bishop Curry

says that if it's not about love, it's

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not about Jesus I know you mentioned the

sense of, of an organized religion, and

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I think that that's, those are key words

that I hear a lot of younger folks use

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is that, I want to experience God, but I

don't like the idea of organized religion.

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And a lot of and that's a good

point because that makes sense.

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A lot of people have been hurt by

organized religion in many ways.

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What I think that some young folks

might need to hear is what, what

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beloved community looks like.

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And that, yes, we all absolutely

can explore our own experiences with

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the divine, but having, , communal

worship together is so special

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and spectacular, and to love our

neighbors together with our neighbors

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is, is just, is a beautiful thing.

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For us to continue to create spaces as a

church for people to experience Beloved

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Community, I think is another area that

we certainly should continue to support.

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Lauren: Thank you for that, Christian

what you're bringing up for me is

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that there's so many different ways of

experiencing community and all of the

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social media platforms that some of us

older folks do not engage in, but they

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are there and what I think Gen Zers

and anyone else who is involved in that

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kind of activity are prophets of our

time because they can go anywhere and

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share the message, share evangelism,

share what love is what the ministry

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that the church is truly called to.

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Have you had, found any difficulties?

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Have you had any obstacles in your way?

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Christian: Oh, certainly.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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What I will say is that I think that I

have been very blessed to experience the

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discernment and formation experiences

that I've had in my calls my Dominican

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formation was very supportive of, my

brothers and sisters were very supportive,

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and my introduction to the Episcopal

Diocese of Maryland and my community

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discernment, and then my admission to

postulancy was All very supportive.

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Especially I definitely have to

point out that , that Bishop Ihloff,

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who, who is now retired, was a

very big part of my discernment.

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And I remember my, my husband and I once

gifted him an icon of, of a Pentecost

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because of his vocation to supporting

people in different ways and how they're

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called to the Spirit and to, , to

manifest the workings of the Holy Spirit.

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So I would say that I'm, I'm, I was very

lucky and very blessed to have such a warm

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welcoming and such a warm support here

in this diocese and also at my priory.

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But I also know that not everyone

experiences that, . I know that

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the church as an institution by

the nature of being run by humans

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is open to the flaws of humanity.

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And so, , young folks, especially

young folks that are gay or young folks

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that are , of color can experience

things like racism, bias not be taking

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seriously because of their youthfulness.

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And I think that what I would have

wanted to hear that, well, the

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youthfulness is part of your vocation.

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The youthfulness is a modality for

which you can minister through.

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And, and that was a game

changer for me, I would say.

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Jon: So Christian if people want

to find out more about some of the

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things you've done or about, dare say,

monasticism or the Dominican order or,

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or what have you or can you point us our

viewers and listeners in any direction?

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And I'll be sure to include any

links in our show notes, but are

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there, are there places you would

you would point us to learn more?

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Christian: Yeah, so I would certainly

say that , I, I always love talking

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to people about inclusive orthodoxy

or monasticism and so I'm, I'm always

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open to, , sharing my email or people

are welcome to reach out to me over

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Facebook and I'm more than happy to have

conversations one on one with people to

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help them, , or at least point them in the

right direction for whom they should be.

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In, in terms of , monasticism in general,

I think that if you search online,

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there's a lot of great resources where

people can look at different charisms

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and see what might speak to them.

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But ultimately, I think if anyone is, is

feels a call to some sort of ordered life

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is to get in touch with their spiritual

director and one that can help them.

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, listen to what the spirit is, is calling

them to you and then to help match

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those charisms to, , because I think

as part of specifically with older life

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is that some people might already be

living the charism either by virtue of

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their job or who they are as a person.

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And that's who they are.

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And it just later on becomes just

a label that's add on to who they

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already are as, as a beloved.

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Child of God.

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But yes, so I'm, I'm social media.

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I'm, I'm happy to be yeah, to reach

out to you and chat with folks.

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Jon: Great.

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So we'll, we'll put at least your

Facebook link will be in the show notes

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and people can reach you that way and

follow up if if they're interested.

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Yeah.

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Thanks for that.

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Great.

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Lauren: Christian, before we go, are

there any other words of wisdom you

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would like to leave for the future of our

church and, and our communities together?

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Christian: Yeah, I will say all

of the, the great words are from

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Dominicans have already been

said, not for, and are not for me.

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So, I'll leave you with words from St.

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Catherine of Siena.

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And St.

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Catherine of Siena, one of my favorites.

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She says be who God calls you to be

and you will set the world on fire.

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Lauren: You will set the world on fire

too and call so many people to do so.

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Thank

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Jon: you.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Thanks.

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Thanks Christian for being with us today.

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We really appreciate it.

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Christian: Thank you both.

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It was lovely.

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Lauren: And Jon and I now want

to thank all of our viewers and

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listeners that are with us today.

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We cannot do this without you, so please

take a moment to comment, like, or share

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on all your social media platforms.

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This will help us to spread the

good news even to more people.

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And again, until next time, thank you

for the gift of your time with us today.

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Until next time, peace and blessing.

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Good news is being brought to

you by Listening for Clues.

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You can find us on our

website, listeningforclues.

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com, our YouTube channel, our

Vimeo channel, and just about every

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podcast platform that there is.

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Hope to see you soon.

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