In this special episode of Queernecks, hosts Beck and Dash review the 2009 film 'Jennifer's Body'. They discuss whether the movie can be considered a queer film, exploring its themes of subversion and the treatment of gender. The podcast delves into the film's production details, highlighting contributions by director Karen Kasama and writer Diablo Cody. The hosts analyze the characters' complexities, the film's critique of patriarchy, rape culture, and the male gaze. They also discuss the transformative powers Jennifer gains and how these reflect broader feminist themes. Additionally, the episode includes a nostalgic tribute to the year 2009 and reflects on how the cultural context of the time impacted the film's reception. The hosts invite listener feedback and suggestions for future episodes.

Send us mail at mailbag@queernecks.com

Follow us on Facebook or Instagram at @Queernecks

Subscribe to out newsletter for the Queernecks ramble expansion pack: https://substack.com/@queernecks

And join our discord by joining our Ko-Fi for $2 a month: https://ko-fi.com/queernecks

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Welcome

to Queernecks, the podcast that

2

puts the Yehaw in y'all means all.

3

I'm your host, Beck,

4

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

and I'm your host.

5

Dash.

6

Welcome to today's episode.

7

well welcome to, uh, another special

episode of Queernecks everybody.

8

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Hey, y'all.

9

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Where

we, decided to review another movie.

10

' cause we had a lot of fun doing Muriel.

11

I did.

12

Anyway,

13

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Same.

14

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

this one is one, uh, we chose

15

because Beck has not seen it.

16

And, we asked y'all's input.

17

A whole lot of, you said you wanted

us to do this one Jennifer's body.

18

Would you consider this a queer film?

19

Did this feel queer to you

while you was watching it?

20

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: You know, it

did only, besides the, the kiss and the,

21

the lead up and, and things like that.

22

It did because like she subverted

so many things, you know, and like

23

she, and, she treated the boys like

they were, uh, like a menstruating.

24

Like she, she had to consume

their blood once a month or

25

she had to, you know, it was

26

awesome.

27

She was a monster.

28

And that's amazing because.

29

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Subversion

is the perfect word for this movie.

30

And so the people involved

with it, they had that in mind.

31

But I, you know, as we're going through

this, we're gonna draw a lot of parallels

32

and there's a lot of metaphors or

things that can, can be, um, illusions.

33

But this movie isn't allegory.

34

It's not telling one grand myth, right?

35

She's a specific kind of monster.

36

but she's flawed and

Needy is flawed, right?

37

Because they're kids and they're

making mistakes as they go along

38

and learn about themselves.

39

And so, one of my favorite things about

Jennifer and Needy and Chip for that

40

matter is, is that none of them are

just like the perfect paragon of virtue.

41

Makes the right decision all the time,

and it doesn't make us relate to them

42

any less or, or cheer for them any less.

43

Very similar to Muriel.

44

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

45

I agree with that.

46

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: So, uh, let's

talk production a little bit because,

47

um, both the, uh, writer and director

of this movie have a larger ouevre

48

of other things that they've done.

49

The director, Karen Kasama, is, is a

like, outspoken feminist director and

50

has also stated her affection for flawed

female protagonists, like flawed in the

51

way that male protagonists get to be.

52

And we still, you know, cheer for them.

53

And then Diablo Cody, um.

54

Is the writer.

55

She also wrote Juno.

56

She collaborated with Charlize

Theron a couple of times on

57

a couple of bizarre movies.

58

She had a, an interesting career, like

we could do a whole episode in on Diablo.

59

Cody, like she's a former sex worker,

and, and this, the dialogue that we see

60

in Jennifer's body is kind of, that was a

thing that some people really couldn't get

61

down with when the movie came out because

of how ridiculous and stylized it was.

62

Like, nobody speaks like this.

63

Well, guess what, SBI aren't real either.

64

Like, I'm so tired of people

complaining that characters on TV or

65

movies don't talk like real people.

66

They're not real people.

67

Janet, if you need a real conversation,

go find a friend and have one

68

The strange turns of phrase are so, like,

so much goes into creating Jennifer as a

69

character, and it's very important that

we do that because of what happens to her.

70

another thing production

wise, there's a, the camera.

71

So Karen Sama really

knows what she's doing.

72

She has a very specific lens and

something Jennifer's body, spent all

73

of its time kind of contending with

visually was the male gaze, in film.

74

So the camera is identified as a

character very early because the very

75

first view we get of it opens, right?

76

It's still credits and everything, and

there's a camera low on the ground and

77

we're tracking right outside of what

turns out to be, um, Jennifer's house

78

whose, whose perspective was that?

79

Was Needy.

80

So immediately we're shown,

we're instructed that the

81

camera is never the male gaze.

82

And, it's reinforced over and over again.

83

But when we're looking at Jennifer, we're,

we're looking at her through need's eyes.

84

And so when she's sexual, it's,

it's a female pleasure centered

85

kind of sexual sexuality.

86

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

87

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

I love their friendship.

88

It's so, it's such like just girlhood.

89

Um, and then also the fact that

it's called Jennifer's Body, right?

90

What a great title.

91

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I agree.

92

I thought about that a lot, about

why they named it that, you know,

93

like the, the meaning behind it.

94

And I think it's because what

she, that's what she sacrifices.

95

You know, that's the sacrificial

item, uh, in the, in the film.

96

And that begets all of the other things.

97

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah, and

it's, it's all, so many people see

98

when they look at her, she's reduced

to, um, oh, I forget the theorists.

99

There's a, there's a film studies

person, it might have been Laura

100

Moy, who said that the male gaze,

reduces women to their fuckable parts.

101

And so, like, they could have

called this movie Fuckable Parts,

102

which would've been incredible.

103

But, you know, they couldn't do that.

104

So the, the next best

thing was Jennifer's Body.

105

Just such a great, um, song.

106

Also the title of a

107

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Yeah, I saw that.

108

I read it somewhere.

109

Um, I didn't get a chance to listen to it.

110

I meant to, but time

slips away so quickly.

111

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: It's so good.

112

I, that's one of my favorite albums ever.

113

holes live through this.

114

I, it might be their first album,

the whole, that a lot of that

115

album is, is about this, right?

116

There's a song called Doll Parts.

117

Courtney Love who, man, you

wanna read about a career.

118

She had a really interesting

career when she was a baby.

119

Her father dosed her with

LSD to see what would happen.

120

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Oh wow.

121

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

122

Okay, so now I guess we can, if we, if

we have more to say about the title.

123

'cause I think there is a lot there.

124

Um, we'll just, you know, jump in with it.

125

So we open up with Needy,

it's a in media res, right?

126

When they do this structure of story, we

open just at, we talked about like the

127

Den Ma last time when we, reviewed Muriel.

128

But did you notice what

she was watching on tv?

129

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I did not.

130

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: It's

an infomercial for the Gazelle.

131

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

132

I did see that.

133

Like I remember that from

like the late eighties, early

134

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

135

Such a strong choice.

136

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

137

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Anything

could have been on that tv.

138

And they picked Tony, what's his face?

139

And and, and in particular they're

talking about, they're objectifying or

140

he's kind of objectifying himself, right?

141

He's talking about like, if when I do

this movement, I make my buns stronger.

142

And, you know, he jokes with the

woman that she can squeeze his buns

143

and then he's, they're like, no,

that would be a totally different

144

kind of television program.

145

they're sort of like directly talking

about objectifying or sexualizing

146

someone without their consent.

147

And it's awkward, like seeing that

on an infomercial, like daytime tv.

148

Your grandma is watching that happen.

149

Like what?

150

That man was crazy.

151

Viewers, if you don't know what we're

talk, why do I always call them viewers?

152

Listeners, if you don't know what

we're talking about, Google Gazelle.

153

Let me find out what his last name is.

154

Tony

155

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

I think it's Porter

156

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Tony Little,

157

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Little.

158

I

159

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: which

doesn't sound like his real name.

160

but yeah, if you don't know what we're

talking about, this was a ridiculous

161

workout machine that a lot of people had

in the mid two thousands, and this man

162

who sold it to us was a character, but

she's watching this laying on her bed.

163

We see Needy come to the

window then at that point.

164

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: that you see

165

her and that they show in one shot.

166

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah,

so that's how we know that, um,

167

it was Needy perspective we had

on the outside of the house.

168

And that kind of shot, that frame.

169

Uh, this, like, that particular

mis en scéne is gonna be reproduced

170

over and over again in this movie.

171

One of the visual themes of

Jennifer's body is, um, like

172

duality, dual perspective.

173

So like one character will be in the

foreground on the left side, another

174

character will be in the background.

175

On the right side there's a camera

technique called Split Diopter that

176

puts, that makes it so that both of

them can be in focus at the same time.

177

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: that's one

of the ways that I shoot my flowers.

178

I didn't know there was a name for it.

179

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

180

Like for film it would be like

a literal filter they, or a lens

181

they would put on the front of it.

182

but that sort of makes it

so that like we can have.

183

Multiple.

184

Our sympathies can be with

multiple people in the scene.

185

Like we can care what

happens to multiple people.

186

And that sets it up very early that both

of these girls and anybody else we meet

187

throughout the film are doing their best.

188

Right.

189

Nobody's like out to be evil except

for this specific set of douche

190

bags who put all this in motion,

191

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

The low shoulder group.

192

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: My friend

on, Facebook, I think it was Willow,

193

uh, said that they're like, uh,

like low key and actually talented.

194

So band like their music

195

Like they would've ate it

up in the, in the MySpace.

196

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah,

197

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: And so

then we start at the beginning,

198

we get some narration, which I

had a hard time keeping up with.

199

Um, but the nar, so like the narrator

is, uh, Needy, but it's Needy from

200

the fut, like the current moment.

201

So after everything has gone down,

which we find out later, means

202

she's not entirely Needy anymore.

203

She's also got a piece

of this demon in her.

204

So she's something, she's something new.

205

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

She's got a horcrux.

206

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

207

That is kind of what, um, oh,

another, uh, theme, which is,

208

is both visual and rhetorical.

209

Um, like verbal is introduced, at

the beginning in this narration.

210

'cause Needy is talking about, how nobody

escapes basically like this process.

211

And she says nobody gets off the cross.

212

Um.

213

This cross is a leitmotif that is like,

we see it over and over and over again.

214

Uh, at the beginning we're introduced

to Needy and she's in this institution

215

and she's, uh, being offered some

sort of lunch and she doesn't want it.

216

She wants toasts instead,

which I like toasts as well.

217

Um, and she kicks the orderly.

218

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

219

Does she?

220

But she's like, I'm a kicker.

221

K-I-C-K-E-R kicker.

222

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: it's written

in my chart, but they put her in this

223

awful cell, um, this solitary confinement,

and I think they leave her there because

224

she's still there at the end of the movie.

225

But there's a shadow.

226

This is a very visually striking scene

227

They built that whole thing

just for this shot so they could

228

shoot down at her on this cross.

229

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah, the

230

XI, the X was all through the film,

231

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

232

Yeah.

233

To me, it felt like cross hairs, you know,

the way that, like, being looked at by

234

someone that you don't wanna be looked at.

235

You can't, you can't get rid of it.

236

Right.

237

It's like a bullseye on you.

238

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right?

239

Well, the, they there, it shows

up several times throughout

240

the film, um, in various ways.

241

that's one of the notes that I made.

242

'cause I noticed that too.

243

First shot like

244

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

245

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: the giant X.

246

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Um, did you notice where this,

247

this fucking movie takes place,

248

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

I don't know where.

249

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Minnesota.

250

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

No, I didn't catch that.

251

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: I started

laughing because, and I've seen this

252

movie a million times, but she's in the,

the name of this facility is Leach Lake

253

something, and I was like, leach Lake.

254

That's up the road from here.

255

Yeah.

256

Devil's Kettle is in Minnesota.

257

It's a, it's a fake town, but

still they chose Minnesota, which,

258

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: is,

I know there's a, a, a devil's

259

hole like that somewhere.

260

Um, but they, eventually found

out where the water goes, like

261

in like 2016 or something.

262

That's a real thing somewhere.

263

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

264

Uh, death Valley.

265

There's something called a

Devil's Hole in Death Valley.

266

Um, I'm, maybe it's that.

267

I'm not gonna read that whole article.

268

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah,

I read about it before though.

269

Like they showed them dumbing, the

balls and everything down in there.

270

They, they couldn't figure it out until

they got some like, uh, GPS equipped

271

stuff and they followed it that way,

and that's how they figured it out.

272

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: And there

is something in Scotland called the

273

Strid, which is a sideways river.

274

and if you fall in it, you die.

275

Like you can't, the strongest swimmer in

the world can't make it back out because

276

it's a vortex that goes straight down.

277

It's like a mile.

278

At least they actually, they don't

know how deep it is because they

279

can't get their equipment back

after they try to measure it.

280

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Oh,

281

wow.

282

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: and it's, it

looks like a stream, just regular old,

283

you know, stream going through the woods.

284

But if you fall in toast,

285

uh, how do I share my screen?

286

can you see this here?

287

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah,

288

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: I don't

know if I can make it bigger so it

289

just looks like a regular stream.

290

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

291

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yep.

292

like children have gone missing in

it, like fucking whole herds of sheep.

293

and, and this, this is how

fucking gangster they are.

294

The, the, the way this would

be walled off in America,

295

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right,

296

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

there's people over here,

297

but yeah, it, it goes really, really

fast and it's so deep and it's just.

298

The, the way the water, um, carved it out

299

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

and it goes down like a mile.

300

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: at least.

301

Yeah.

302

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Wow.

303

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: You know,

it's, and it's just a sideways river,

304

and the pressure, the, the formation

of the rocks makes it so that you can't

305

come back up the, the downward force.

306

Which that is one of the creepiest

things I've ever heard of.

307

Right.

308

Nature's full of a creepy shit.

309

But that, that's up there.

310

okay.

311

, That's the first part or the,

the opening frame of this story.

312

And then we start at the beginning

where we get to know the kids in their.

313

You know, innocent state, how, how they

were before all this happened to them.

314

Needy says something interesting.

315

And when she's talking about them, she

says, we were our yearbook pictures.

316

, And then so we get her perspective

again on Jennifer, she's a cheerleader

317

and there's a, a pep rally.

318

I'm guessing that's what this is.

319

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: each other.

320

Yeah.

321

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah,

322

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Corps, so

it's something to do with the band.

323

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

you know, I, uh.

324

Did, uh, this experiment one time when I

showed this film to, um, one of my classes

325

and I asked them to describe Jennifer's

outfit, Like just from memory, like,

326

do you remember what she was wearing?

327

Like, describe it to me.

328

And everybody describes it as like

a tankini type situation, bare

329

midriff, um, lots of cleavage.

330

and, uh, that is not at all,

but what she is wearing, it's

331

actually fairly conservative.

332

She's fully covered.

333

I think it even has sleeves on it.

334

So like I realized that I did it one time.

335

I was trying to remember

it and I was Googling it.

336

Um, and if you, if you look

up like Halloween costumes,

337

that's what they look like.

338

So in our minds, we have undressed her.

339

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Oh wow, that's interesting.

340

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: But when

we we see that shot, it, it's, uh,

341

like we're clo It's just Jennifer.

342

There's background stuff happening.

343

Right.

344

She, because it's the cheerleaders

and the other Flag Corps people,

345

but she's our focal point.

346

And then we again learn that

that's Needy's perspective.

347

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

348

And that girl's,

349

your lesbian, bi,

350

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: lesbian, gay.

351

Yeah.

352

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: gay,

353

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Which is,

is the beginning of another trend in

354

this movie where so many people have

big, big feelings about Jennifer and

355

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

356

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Did that ring true for you?

357

Like, do I never had friends, so,

um, but you know what, I don't know.

358

Did, did that ring true to

you, of your high school days?

359

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: My mom liked

some of my friends and didn't like others.

360

Um, and especially the girl

that I probably would say I

361

had my first real crush on.

362

Um, mom hated her

363

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

364

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I think

she realized what was going on.

365

'cause I was writing love poetry

to my best friend, basically.

366

You know, it was totally queer and

a hundred, a hundred percent queer.

367

Um, I had a lot of guy friends

when I was in high school.

368

Um.

369

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: There's

a, a movie I watched recently,

370

it's a strange, um, Anna Kendrick

movie about a kind of interpersonal

371

violence, called Alice Darling.

372

And one of her friends is trying

to intervention her and be like,

373

you need to leave him or whatever.

374

And her defense is like, you've never

been in a serious romantic relationship.

375

And her friend says, like, that

doesn't disqualify me from being

376

able to see that you're being abused.

377

And also there's a lot of

different kinds of love.

378

And right now I'm expressing one of

them for you, and we're so quick to

379

shame or, or try to, um, delegitimize

all forms of love that aren't sexual,

380

I would consider that heteronormative.

381

You know?

382

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: because

there is romance to friendship, you

383

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

384

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Um, like

my best friend in the whole world,

385

when her dog died, I sent her flowers.

386

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

387

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

thing you do, you know?

388

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

389

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: and like

her husband, the first thing he said

390

was, I should have done that, huh?

391

Yeah, you dumb ass.

392

You should have.

393

But that's what she's got

me for, so don't worry

394

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Exactly right.

395

Like, in one breath, we'll say you

can't be everything to somebody.

396

And in the next try to sequester that

person from the people who could give

397

them the rest of what they need, so.

398

I, there was homophobia in that, but there

was something a bit larger too, because

399

Needy, it made Needy feel a certain way.

400

Like she reacted, she, she defended

herself and she defended Jennifer and she

401

was like, I can't remember what she said,

but she, she did come back with something.

402

Um,

403

sandbox love never dies.

404

That's what it was.

405

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Oh, I have that

as one of my quotes that I wrote down.

406

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: there's

so many moments that like, it's

407

just perfect writing, right?

408

It's like everybody knows

what they mean by that,

409

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

It's queer when it doesn't need

410

to be, and I love that, like

411

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: right?

412

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

was not really a plot point.

413

It was just a fact of the situation.

414

And I, I loved that.

415

I love movies where gay people

are, are in the movie and it's not

416

about them coming out or not about

them having trauma for being gay or

417

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

418

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: You know,

I, I like movies where gay people

419

just exist as gay people fully,

know, accepting themselves as queer.

420

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: So after

the pep rally or whatever it is, it

421

was a, that was a pep rally, right?

422

Why else would they be doing that?

423

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I think so

that's the only thing when we talk about

424

hegemony in my classes, I always use

the, the jock and band member dichotomy

425

to talk about how everybody knows the

order of operations in those situations.

426

And that's how that's hegemony at work.

427

and I think that that's the only time

we would have a gathering that big,

428

uh, in the middle of the high school

429

day.

430

we didn't, we don't do those kinds of pep

rallies or, or events for the math team or

431

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: right.

432

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

the, you know what I mean?

433

Like we don't have quiz bowl pep rallies.

434

Um, so it was probably a pep rally for

the football team or the basketball

435

team or something like that.

436

That's what I would assume.

437

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

It's just so interesting that

438

the movie didn't show us that

439

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

440

Well, it's not of

441

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: we

442

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

That's what the boys were doing.

443

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah, exactly.

444

it's a specific, subtle choice.

445

We keep, we're like, no,

don't care about that story.

446

We go, we follow the girls.

447

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Were you in band at all?

448

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Uh, in middle school I was.

449

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Well, when

you go in, in my high school, when

450

you were in the band, you had to go to

the football games on Friday nights,

451

um, and perform at the halftime show.

452

And I can tell you 99% of the

people in the band were not

453

there for the football game.

454

That was not that what

we were interested in.

455

Right.

456

So that, that kind of tracks that,

that's, they didn't care about the sport.

457

They were there for the cheerleader

or for the, for the band or whatever.

458

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: And we are

too, as viewers, we are there 'cause

459

we care about Needy and Jennifer.

460

So we, we follow the girls to

their lockers or Needy's locker and

461

Jennifer is, we see them interact as

themselves, like who they really are

462

before the trauma happens to them.

463

And it's kind of sweet because we've

got Needy narration over top of it.

464

And then also watching them interact.

465

It's like a nature documentary

466

because she's like, nobody knows

why Jennifer likes me and I so

467

vibed with this because this is

how I felt being friends with Jade.

468

I know nobody could figure

out why she hung out with me.

469

But she also, like, she never made me

conscious of that, and that's how I feel

470

like Needy and Jennifer like, yeah, they

kind of have a pecking order, right?

471

Jennifer's the Queen Bee and Needy is

like in her orbit, but Jennifer also

472

loves her and likes having her around,

and so she asks her to go out with her

473

that night.

474

This is the first time

she says, cross out Needy.

475

She says, boo.

476

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Another X.

477

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yep.

478

but it works, right?

479

Needy changes her mind and

decides to go out with Jennifer.

480

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Wear something cute,

481

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Wear something cute.

482

Yeah.

483

And Needy tells us that she

knows exactly what that means.

484

Like, don't look like a reject,

but don't upstage Jennifer.

485

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right?

486

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

the style, oh my God.

487

The fashion in this, that puffy jacket

that Megan Fox is wearing around, and

488

the low rise jeans, the lip gloss.

489

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I

think this is the first movie I've

490

ever seen her in, because I don't

491

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Oh

492

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: like the

transformer movies or the action

493

movies or anything like that.

494

And she's done a lot of those

and I just don't watch those.

495

So I think this is the first, like

where she's been like a main person.

496

so I was really impressed

with her performance.

497

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

498

She's good.

499

You know, and, and this was a

heavy lift because Jennifer's such

500

a character and then what happens

to her is, is so layered, so they.

501

They go and she was done wrong.

502

Right?

503

Jennifer's, this, this movie bombing

is one of the reasons, one of the

504

things that happened to her career.

505

'cause we were just awful to

women in the post nine 11 era.

506

Right?

507

Same shit that happened to Britney.

508

Same shit that happened to Lindsay.

509

On and on and on.

510

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Can you tell

me a time when we were not awful to women,

511

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: No, and,

and I didn't mean to imply that we

512

no longer treat women poorly, but it

was a certain kind of career death

513

that happened to teenage girls once

we were done with them in Hollywood.

514

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right?

515

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: I

think we do do better at that now.

516

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: you said dooo.

517

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: so yeah,

the next chapter is the Girls.

518

They're going to Melody Lane,

this incredible dive bar I

519

would spend every evening there.

520

Just, I, I loved everything.

521

This is like the womb

of this movie, right?

522

This is, or it's, it's kind

of, it's beating heart.

523

This, the, the Americana kitch everywhere.

524

These like lamp shade

flag, American flag things.

525

and, and who should march

through here, but Chris Pratt,

526

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

527

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

America's biggest tool.

528

I'm like, of course he's here.

529

Did he, he just spawns anywhere.

530

This amount of fucking patriotism

is vomited into a dive bar.

531

This is just how you get Chris Pratts.

532

He's like ants and honey.

533

and that's his only scene.

534

And he was not nobody back then.

535

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I

thought maybe he was a nobody.

536

That's why, because I expect when you,

537

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Nope.

538

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: famous

shows up in a movie, you expect them

539

to have a bigger part, you know?

540

Um, but didn't seem like a cameo to me, so

541

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: It was,

there were quite a few of them actually.

542

But the other ones, well, some of them

made more sense than others, but Yeah,

543

no, this was, ' he was already skinny so

he was already, um, parks and recreation

544

had already been on for several seasons.

545

he was, already cast in

zero, dark 30 at this point.

546

already doing that like.

547

super.

548

I love America.

549

Christianity rebrand thing.

550

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

551

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: So I just

thought that was so funny that that

552

was his one role was to show up and

be this douche this want to be cop.

553

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

554

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

And she just shames him.

555

She does kind of sexually

assault him though.

556

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

Just a little bit though.

557

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Like it,

I mean, they, we find out that it's

558

because they have been a couple, they're,

they are intimate with one another,

559

but we didn't know that at the time.

560

And so she, she touched him and

he was like, don't do that here.

561

And I was like, what just happened?

562

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I think that

was kind of a metaphor though, because

563

the, the whole movie is her grabbing the,

the patriarchy by the balls, you know,

564

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah,

565

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: and

566

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: that's true.

567

And no matter what happens, the power

dynamic is never gonna be reversed.

568

You know, he's never gonna

be in danger from her

569

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right.

570

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: in

the way that she walked into

571

her certain death, basically.

572

I mean, whether low shoulder is there

to do their weird ritual or not,

573

like Needy and, and Jennifer are not

safe going into places like that in

574

a way that the Chris Pratts of the

world would never even think about.

575

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Oh yeah.

576

The one of the scariest parts of

the whole movie is when you realize

577

she's in a van alone with five men.

578

Like you know

579

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: And, and

this is also where like the movie,

580

basically, like the engine starts to turn.

581

So they go to Melody Lane and

they're kind of, sort of pretending,

582

playing at groupies to, you know,

they love, they do like this band.

583

Jennifer thinks they're hot.

584

She loves their guide liner.

585

She loves, you know, their style.

586

She likes that they're interesting.

587

and they, they choose her for what we

find out later is gonna be this ritual.

588

There's a whole discussion about virginity

that takes place here that I found

589

really interesting among these boys.

590

because the Adam Brody character, he was

like, that's the one we need to pick.

591

Her and the other guy's like,

there's no way she's a virgin.

592

Adam Brody's, like, no, like girls like

her, like they're teases basically.

593

He's calling her a tease.

594

He's like, they, they like

signal that they're available

595

and then they don't put out,

596

and Needy overhears them.

597

Here's a, this is a,

a split diopter scene.

598

So Needy is playing, foo, no it's not

pit, uh, pinball something, ski ball.

599

Uh, and she overhears them talking about

this and she decides to turn around and

600

be like, yeah, actually she is a virgin.

601

She's like trying to

defend Jennifer's honor.

602

And that kind of seals the deal.

603

That's what gets Jennifer killed.

604

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right,

605

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Way,

purity culture, Needy feeling as

606

though she needs to defend Jennifer's

honor against these people who don't

607

even matter against the patriarchy.

608

That's what these boys represent.

609

And at that moment, this movie

became profoundly sad to me.

610

Like this is a very sad movie.

611

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah,

612

I agree.

613

I thought it was really smart that they

don't actually tell you what happens

614

to her until later in the movie.

615

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

616

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: know,

whatever happens and informed this,

617

this thing, um, the, the horrors

are left to your imagination,

618

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Right.

619

she tries.

620

She says she's gonna get Adam

Brody a shot, and she comes

621

back with these twin tower shots

because it's a nine 11 tribute.

622

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: you.

623

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: so that is

like, they didn't have to do that, right?

624

But in this bar of all places, like

they, they painted this veneer of,

625

patriotism, false commemoration.

626

They were like, we're gonna

firmly situate that here too.

627

Like they, they were

putting that pin in it.

628

And I really, really loved that because

they were basically saying like,

629

something's happened to the way we

view, women's agency under this, you

630

know, post non living American milieu.

631

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

632

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: but

EDI intercepts her and as she

633

says, those guys are losers.

634

They were, talking about whether

you were a virgin or not.

635

And Jennifer says, I'm not

even a backdoor virgin anymore.

636

Which is just the, the funniest way to

to, to say that, you know, like, not only

637

am I a virgin, I'm a nasty freak too.

638

and then that's kind of it.

639

Like she still, she, Jennifer

never did really seem fixated on

640

scoring with any of the guys on

actually sleeping with any of them.

641

She wanted to.

642

Uh, see them entertain her.

643

She wanted to experience their

show bask in their glory.

644

And she talked about, you know,

being a groupie, but that's

645

more about the performance.

646

Groupies aren't in love with people.

647

They're in, in love with

648

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: The spectacle.

649

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

650

Right.

651

when the music starts and it's a really

good song, the whole bar is into it.

652

Jennifer and Needy are standing

next to each other and Jennifer

653

takes Edy's hand, and it's just

the sweetest little scene with them

654

both just like enjoying this moment.

655

It's kind the last

moment they have together

656

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

657

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: because

something starts to happen to

658

Jennifer while this song is playing.

659

I think that it, that we are to

believe that they were casting

660

a spell on her with the music.

661

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I can see

662

that.

663

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: maybe

hypnosis, something like that.

664

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

665

'cause they imply that when

everybody's like falls in love with

666

the song after everything happens.

667

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

668

Yeah.

669

And also I think they set the fire, like

I think that that was supposed to happen.

670

while they're playing this song, an

American flag sets fire, like, or it,

671

it lights on fire and the whole bar is

a blaze before anybody can do anything

672

and they're all running around Needy.

673

And Jennifer escape out the bathroom

window, and Jennifer's still not right.

674

She's kind of, she falls to the ground.

675

She looks to me like I've

seen people be too drunk.

676

Or like when somebody suddenly

realizes they're drunker than

677

they meant to get, or somebody

who's been had their drink spiked.

678

That's kind of what this, like Megan

Fox's performance was giving me.

679

Which then like, makes it, it makes it

even more layered when this guy shows

680

up outta nowhere and, and forces a drink

down her throat, Adam Brody's character

681

and says, we need to get somewhere safe.

682

Let me get you in my van.

683

And Needy is like, what?

684

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

685

What's really interesting about that

character is that I'm also rewatching, um,

686

uh, nobody wants this right now where he

plays a rabbi, same guy with Kristen Bell.

687

And so I'm watching the same guy in

two different things, and one, he's a

688

devil guy and one, and he's a rabbi.

689

It's really interesting

the, the, what's the word

690

I'm looking for?

691

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: the, like

divergence or like the juxtaposition.

692

I don't know.

693

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: There we

694

go.

695

Yeah.

696

Yeah.

697

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Interestingly, that's a technique

698

they're gonna use in this film as well.

699

but yeah, he, he convinces, Jennifer,

who's very dazed, and he just

700

says like, come on, let me, let

me, I should get you in my van.

701

And she says, yeah, I want to get in

your super cool van and Needy watches,

702

you know, horror stricken as Jennifer

follows, this guy, he's kind of dragging

703

her by the hand and there's just an

amazing scene where, again, from need's

704

perspective, still seated on the ground.

705

the camera's down low, we're looking

into the van door, and Jennifer is

706

sitting there, kind of collapsed.

707

Her legs are kind of splayed and she

has this vacant look on her face, but

708

it's also kind of like, she almost looks

like she could be pleading for help.

709

And she's making eye contact with

Needy and it, it's just crushing.

710

And at that moment, you know,

like, whatever happens, it's bad,

711

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah, like I

said, that for me that was one of the more

712

psychologically terrifying moments of, of

the whole film because you get a girl and

713

put her with five creeps in a van, nothing

714

good is gonna happen.

715

That's American rape

culture in a nutshell, or.

716

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: but so Needy.

717

Uh, she goes home and she calls Chip.

718

And at first I was like, oh,

he's doing better than expected.

719

'cause he kind of pissed me off

when Jennifer came to pick Needy up

720

because he was doing the same thing.

721

The other person was, was like, why

are you always stealing my girlfriend?

722

But when she called him and said, the

place burnt down, people are dead,

723

Jennifer's missing, you know, he kind

of like hopped to and started, you

724

know, expressing concern and, and doing

a decent job until she said something

725

about wanting to go look for Jennifer.

726

And he said like, who cares?

727

And I was like, what?

728

Who says that?

729

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right.

730

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: And

then the, uh, Edy's doorbell

731

rings and she's home alone.

732

I loved this scene so much, Megan

Fox's performance throughout this

733

sequence where she, I mean, yeah, it's,

there's makeup, the makeup, they do a

734

great job with, uh, special effects.

735

it's a lot of practical effects actually

in the scene, which is cool because

736

in 2009, CGI wasn't that great yet.

737

So they actually just had her on the

floor devouring this chicken and Edy's

738

like that was from Boston Market.

739

just, I mean, and you would,

I mean, you just find the most

740

ridiculous shit to say sometimes

when you don't know what's going on.

741

Like, what am I looking at?

742

And, uh, the scene where she like roars

at her, she's hunched down in her high

743

heels with chicken in her hands and,

and Needy like, um, crotches down to

744

be like, what's the matter with you?

745

You covered in blood, you're acting crazy.

746

And she like roars at her.

747

I laugh every time that happens.

748

Partly, partly because

it is a little scary.

749

Like it actually did scare

me the first time I saw it.

750

I was like, good god.

751

But also like, it's just, it's

just pretty little Megan Fox

752

under there doing all this.

753

And I just love that.

754

I love, I love this whole movie for her,

you know, clearly she had a great time.

755

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

756

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Why

didn't she go to her house?

757

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I don't

758

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Like,

she didn't, she didn't go home.

759

She went to Edy's house.

760

I.

761

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Well,

there's definitely something

762

about their connection.

763

I mean, with the necklace and

764

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

765

Yeah, I thought about that too.

766

Like they're almost like

psychic for each other.

767

Remember this scene where Needy

was like, Jennifer's here.

768

Chip was like, that's so weird.

769

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: The, the

girl that I was talking about, that

770

was probably my first big crush.

771

I also had BFF necklaces with her.

772

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

773

And come to find out that necklace

actually was kind of magic

774

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

775

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: in a, in a way.

776

Um, but also, uh, Jennifer, she's hungry.

777

She needs to feed because

she's, she's come back as a,

778

a succubus, a kind of demon.

779

She could have fed on Needy, but she

didn't, which is, that's pretty cool.

780

Like there's something about like

the idea that this person is, is

781

a demon now, but the piece of her

that still loves her best friend.

782

Strong enough to, to stop this.

783

because she asks her like, are you scared?

784

And Needy says, yeah.

785

And that's what she needs.

786

Like she needs a person to be scared

to eat them, to feed off of them.

787

So instead she goes, and we find

out much later, she feeds on Ahmed.

788

Who she finds just randomly walking home.

789

so the next day, um, like we're just

at school with them and Jennifer shows

790

up looking gorgeous, like not just

gorgeous because she already was, but

791

like the way they have done, done her

makeup, they've, they've put extra

792

lip gloss on, they've got a filter

on like her, to smooth her skin out.

793

And she's got a lot of cleavage showing

794

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

and everyone around her is

795

in gray and black, she stands

796

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

Oh, that's a good point.

797

Yeah.

798

She, she stands out from the,

or she sucks up the color from

799

around her, one or the other.

800

and she's always touching herself.

801

She's always touching her hair.

802

Um, or she's fiddling with her hair.

803

She's, she's constantly

like doing something to draw

804

attention to, to herself.

805

And, um, the thing, here's a, something

that's always kind of like just made

806

me wonder about this movie, is since we

don't know very much about what their

807

friendship was like before this, the only

thing we have to go on that tells us that

808

Jennifer's acting any different is need's

reaction to her because Jennifer's being

809

like really mean and, and crass about.

810

The people dying and the tragedy

and stuff, and she's just feels too

811

good for anybody to get her down.

812

And Needy is shocked by this.

813

I, I just don't know if I felt

like Jennifer was that good of a

814

person before all of this happened.

815

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Oh, I think

that she definitely wasn't, I think

816

they gave us lots of clues to that and

817

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

818

maybe, maybe what is more reasonable

is that Jennifer would have done

819

what, what needed to be done to make

Needy feel better, that she would've

820

cared how Needy felt about things.

821

Um, ' cause that's kind of what happened

in the bar when, like when, when Needy

822

said, don't fuck with those guys.

823

They're, they're gross losers.

824

And they were talking

about your virginity.

825

Jennifer did.

826

She just dropped it immediately and

was like, oh, oh, well nevermind.

827

So.

828

Maybe Needy is kind of her moral center.

829

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

830

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: this

is also the, this is the day we're

831

introduced to Colin Gray, the emo boy.

832

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I really

like the idea that the men were afraid.

833

Like the scene where the mom

gives him the pepper spray.

834

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

835

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: That's like

the, the talk that we get, you know?

836

Um, you have to

837

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

838

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: yourself.

839

You have to watch out for boys.

840

Um, every boy will will do things

and you know, as, as girls, many

841

of us got that talk, but boys,

they don't get handed pepper spray.

842

That's, I mean, that's just not

the way, the normal of passage.

843

And so that the boys were afraid that the

boys were terrified of something feminine.

844

Um, I think was, was really interesting

because they really are afraid

845

of the feminine in a lot of ways.

846

Like Aston buy tampons and No, that's

the grossest thing they've ever

847

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Right.

848

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Um, so

they are afraid of, of the unknown,

849

of the vagina and things like that.

850

but to have them actually fear it for

their lives, I find that really, it, it

851

turned the whole thing on its ear for me.

852

I think.

853

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: you

know, the horror genre is it, it

854

does this more than any other genre

of, constructing this monstrous

855

feminine, like reversing that dynamic.

856

it's often the horror Madonna

type of, uh, thing, right?

857

It's, it's not, it's not, it's

often not in a feminist context.

858

Barbara Creed wrote a book called

The Monstrous Feminine, and there's.

859

Like, uh, the vagina, Tata, for

instance, like this is, a kind of

860

monstrous femininity that it's literally,

it literally means toothy vagina.

861

Like the, remember there's a, there's

a movie called Teeth that's about

862

this, but like the, you know, closes on

the member and then Emasculates Yeah.

863

Has teeth.

864

He grows teeth.

865

Um, and so like, they're horror

has done this before, with, in this

866

case of Jennifer's only a monster

because somebody made her one.

867

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right.

868

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Um, so

yes, she, she chooses her next victim.

869

Um, and we find out she is on a

monthly cycle, like you said, like it's

870

been a month and she's, she's sick.

871

She needs to feed again.

872

She chooses this guy, this

football player, a jock,

873

and we get to see her kill.

874

this is kind of the only full on,

like we see her do it again, but

875

it's, it's done very differently.

876

so she's seducing this guy, and it's very

weird because she's also kind of messing

877

with him, like she's bringing, he's

crying, he's upset, grieving his friend,

878

and she's like getting him all worked up.

879

But then she's like, do

you miss your friend?

880

Do you Ms.

881

Craig?

882

she can't have him get happy.

883

She needs him to be sad

or she can't feed on him.

884

So he was starting to enjoy it.

885

And she's like, no, I need you

to re, because at first I was

886

like, why is she bringing this up?

887

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

But it's not untypical for an

888

animal to play with its meal.

889

You know what I mean?

890

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Right.

891

and then all of these animals

showed up as she starts seducing

892

him, which was very cool.

893

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

894

Though I can't say I really

understood the symbolism of that.

895

I thought that was a little confusing.

896

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: I was

confused by it as well, because

897

a lot of them were prey animals.

898

so like, did you, it was like deer eating

his carcass and stuff, so I, I thought

899

maybe that was what they were doing,

like instead of predators showing up.

900

'cause it wasn't like wolves or mountain

lions coming to wait for her to kill him

901

so that they could have the leftovers.

902

It was prey.

903

Dear, don't eat meat.

904

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

905

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: So.

906

I guess I thought of them as sort

of being, of identifying with her

907

as somebody who had been prey and

is now a predator of taking power

908

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

that makes sense.

909

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: but yeah,

it was still kind of like, the scene

910

would've been fine without that,

911

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

912

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: So also in

this scene of like, where we learned

913

that it's been a month, people lo we

learned that low shoulder has gotten

914

super famous, uh, kind of because of

the tragedy, which is why I think that

915

it was part of the ritual that they,

they had caused the fire on purpose.

916

and they're donating like, what was it,

like one, one or 3% of their proceeds

917

from a song to some undisclosed.

918

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

they would keep.

919

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

which Needy brings up.

920

And I really loved this scene for her.

921

because we are reentering the narrative

of, heroism do you remember, uh,

922

after nine 11, it was like the day

of, I remember we started calling the

923

people who died in the Towers Heroes,

924

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Right.

925

I remember my biggest memory of

that time is how the American flag

926

showed up everywhere overnight.

927

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: yeah.

928

Yeah.

929

Like we, it, there was this whole

like patriot washing thing happening,

930

I just remember being like.

931

Why does it feel strange to me

that we are calling these people

932

heroes instead of victims?

933

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115:

it's a good question.

934

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115:

It's part of a narrative.

935

and so Needy starts to question

a, that's narrative of heroism.

936

Uh, about low shoulder, about

the people who died in the bar.

937

she was like, it was an accident.

938

It was a tragic accident at, at best, you

know, and people tried to shut her down.

939

The one girl who called

her Les BGAs, shut up.

940

No, they're heroes.

941

And she was like, why?

942

What did they do other than

survive, like the rest of us?

943

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I do

think it was interesting to make the

944

choice of that mean girl, the one

that said the lesbian, gay, and the,

945

and and what you're talking about.

946

Um, they made her a woman of

color, which flips the, it's

947

usually white women that are,

948

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Hmm.

949

What do you think that does?

950

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: I,

I think again, it, it, it flips

951

the role on its side, right?

952

Because it's not what we would expect.

953

Um, when we, when we think about the

hegemony of high school, often it's the,

954

the white kids who were in power there

and the white, like when we mean girls

955

was all white girls, you know what I mean?

956

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Mm-hmm.

957

Right?

958

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: girl, and

that's with Jennifer, there's even a

959

scene on the phone where it's a little

bit of a callback to the Gretchen,

960

uh, from mean girls, you know?

961

Um, so she's clearly who the mean girl is.

962

And so to have this random, who you

would usually assume to be a nice girl,

963

the, the nice young Indian girl, right?

964

That's the stereotype.

965

Um, she's the mean girl.

966

And I think that's just another

way to flip things on the side,

967

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: She's

also a mouthpiece of hegemony.

968

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: right?

969

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Um, so this

is when like Needy and Chip go and have

970

their sex scene, which is, it's sweet.

971

um, what's most interesting about this.

972

Is the way it's edited because

Needy and chip have their

973

very much a teenage sex scene.

974

Right.

975

They're under the sheets for God's sakes.

976

Right.

977

This is not male gaze.

978

they're communicating very much like

the way you do when you're first with

979

somebody, when you're first intimate

with somebody, whatever your age is.

980

but it's intercut with

Jennifer's, hunting Colin Gray,

981

which I, I, I can think of one reason why

they did that, which is to reinforce the

982

connection that Needy and Jennifer have.

983

Um, because Needy starts to experience and

then actually see what Jennifer's doing to

984

Colin Gray and what she did to the other

guy, the jock, I don't remember his name.

985

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Jonas.

986

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Right.

987

Right.

988

She sees blood dripping from the ceiling.

989

There's something in there to do

with like innocence, Jennifer, there,

990

there was a line that made me laugh

when Jennifer start first starts

991

kissing Colin and she drops his

pants and she says, nice hardware.

992

Ace.

993

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: Yeah.

994

You know, that's one of the comments that

I had that the humor is very important.

995

It really keeps you interested.

996

Um, I think that the, the humor

was a character all in its own,

997

dash_19_01-02-2026_140115: Yeah.

998

beck_20_01-02-2026_150115: yeah, I,

I thought it was funny in places.

999

That's because this is not

my genre, you know, I, it

00:43:56,211 --> 00:43:56,541

00:43:56,676 --> 00:43:58,506

the, the throwing up and, and all

00:43:58,506 --> 00:44:00,006

that kind of stuff was a bit much.

00:44:00,366 --> 00:44:03,006

Um, but I enjoyed the

movie overall, right.

00:44:03,006 --> 00:44:05,796

And I got the point that it was

trying to make, I think, and that it

00:44:05,796 --> 00:44:09,216

was not gratuitous violence that was

actually had a message there, you know?

00:44:09,636 --> 00:44:10,206

Um,

00:44:10,401 --> 00:44:11,781

the scene I warned you about.

00:44:11,781 --> 00:44:13,611

I was like, yeah, there's one

scene that's gonna upset you.

00:44:14,286 --> 00:44:16,476

yeah, yeah, it was just gross.

00:44:17,016 --> 00:44:19,056

it, it, and this thing

is, it's not my thing.

00:44:19,056 --> 00:44:22,086

So the fact that they used

humor in it really made it more

00:44:22,086 --> 00:44:23,256

comfortable for me to watch.

00:44:23,286 --> 00:44:24,516

So I appreciated that.

00:44:25,131 --> 00:44:26,661

And that's very Diablo Cody.

00:44:26,691 --> 00:44:29,631

And I think that this is, it works

better here than it did in Juno.

00:44:30,171 --> 00:44:32,001

I think this is a better

movie than Juno though.

00:44:32,391 --> 00:44:32,571

all right.

00:44:32,571 --> 00:44:35,691

So Needy like freaks out because

she has seen Jennifer do this thing.

00:44:35,691 --> 00:44:39,151

She gets in her car and she leaves,

uh, I can't remember what happens next.

00:44:39,181 --> 00:44:42,411

Oh, she, she sees her

right crossing the street.

00:44:42,631 --> 00:44:43,321

Yeah, I think so.

00:44:43,751 --> 00:44:44,291

00:44:44,291 --> 00:44:46,331

And Jennifer, she looks horrible.

00:44:46,331 --> 00:44:47,471

She's covered in blood.

00:44:47,695 --> 00:44:52,475

she jumps on her car and breaks the

windshield and then Needy speeds off.

00:44:52,595 --> 00:44:54,905

Is this when she comes home

and Jennifer's in her bed?

00:44:55,305 --> 00:44:56,325

I honestly don't know.

00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:57,900

00:44:58,260 --> 00:44:59,400

I think that this,

00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,970

Needy finally gets home from this.

00:45:02,370 --> 00:45:05,910

Yeah, it is because Jennifer talks about

being full 'cause she just ate Colin.

00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,610

so yeah, Needy.

00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:10,430

Uh, she gets home, she's,

she's tired, right?

00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:14,870

She crawls into her bed or she sits on

the couch and falls asleep for a while

00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:21,300

and then wakes up and goes to her room

and Jennifer's in her bed and she looks

00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:23,280

all healthy and happy and vibrant again.

00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:24,690

And this is when they.

00:45:25,090 --> 00:45:26,530

Make out a little bit,

00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:27,350

00:45:27,350 --> 00:45:28,555

seem like the first time.

00:45:28,705 --> 00:45:29,185

00:45:29,438 --> 00:45:34,085

I, I'm pretty sure that they said that

it was not, and Jennifer's kind of,

00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,765

I, I was experiencing this as kind

of like her almost asking for help.

00:45:39,335 --> 00:45:41,375

'cause she's in deep right?

00:45:41,405 --> 00:45:44,045

And the only person she trusts is Needy.

00:45:44,445 --> 00:45:46,515

But Needy can't save her from this.

00:45:47,415 --> 00:45:51,045

I still found myself being really

sort of like hurt and frustrated with

00:45:51,045 --> 00:45:57,175

Needy for not, um, I don't know, for

not taking Jennifer's side, I guess.

00:45:57,575 --> 00:45:59,495

And Needy isn't spared from this.

00:45:59,525 --> 00:46:02,705

So maybe that's what she gets,

you know, in a way she was

00:46:02,705 --> 00:46:04,665

kind of hurt by it as well.

00:46:05,065 --> 00:46:08,695

so, uh, and Jennifer like tells her

the full truth and she shows her, she,

00:46:08,695 --> 00:46:13,525

she stabs herself with a, a, a, what

looked like a chopstick or something,

00:46:14,065 --> 00:46:19,435

and she heals and she flat out explains

what she is, and then need's like, get

00:46:19,435 --> 00:46:22,925

out basically, Did you notice that

there were no fathers in this movie?

00:46:23,325 --> 00:46:24,430

Not until you just said that.

00:46:24,830 --> 00:46:28,160

these people, we see like three or four

00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,320

different parents, and it's all mothers.

00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,340

We never see a father.

00:46:32,090 --> 00:46:33,485

sure that's an intentional choice

00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:34,730

00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:37,550

That was not non sequitur,

but it just occurred to me.

00:46:38,183 --> 00:46:39,953

at school the next day.

00:46:39,983 --> 00:46:43,163

Chip has bought the prom tickets.

00:46:43,673 --> 00:46:44,963

Needy breaks up with him.

00:46:45,363 --> 00:46:48,043

She's doing research on the occult,

00:46:48,410 --> 00:46:50,930

has an cul section in the library.

00:46:51,330 --> 00:46:52,110

Yeah, it's not big.

00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:52,710

00:46:54,344 --> 00:46:56,024

that's a good example of like the

00:46:56,024 --> 00:47:01,034

way humor also does work because it,

that's a commentary on the way this

00:47:01,034 --> 00:47:03,374

genre is often fucking ridiculous.

00:47:03,964 --> 00:47:04,314

00:47:04,364 --> 00:47:08,264

kids are allowed to do or get away with,

00:47:08,264 --> 00:47:13,304

or have access to in this, in this genre,

or, you know, it is silly sometimes,

00:47:13,304 --> 00:47:17,325

but this is how we learn what Jennifer

is in case we didn't already know.

00:47:17,325 --> 00:47:20,535

Like if you, if you are a

student of monsters, you knew

00:47:20,535 --> 00:47:21,885

she was a succubus already.

00:47:22,215 --> 00:47:24,515

But the characters needed to learn it.

00:47:24,697 --> 00:47:26,767

And we also get some mechanics, right?

00:47:27,007 --> 00:47:30,377

Well, We learn how it's

made and how to kill it.

00:47:30,777 --> 00:47:32,997

But we also learned what

happened to Jennifer.

00:47:33,027 --> 00:47:34,167

We get the full story.

00:47:34,227 --> 00:47:36,597

This is what she tells Needy in the bed.

00:47:36,997 --> 00:47:40,447

I think that's why I was frustrated

with Needy because she, she didn't like

00:47:40,447 --> 00:47:43,597

comfort her friend after finding out

that this horrible thing happened to her.

00:47:43,657 --> 00:47:44,007

00:47:44,407 --> 00:47:46,207

that was, that was one of those

00:47:46,207 --> 00:47:51,847

imperfections that Needy is allowed

to have as a fully fledged character.

00:47:52,507 --> 00:47:56,377

And it's also one of the, it's one

of those like complex wrinkles of

00:47:56,377 --> 00:48:02,487

rape culture, the way that victims

or disempowered people can be

00:48:02,487 --> 00:48:06,627

pitted against one another or put

in position to disavow one another.

00:48:07,027 --> 00:48:12,162

I actually was thinking just this

morning on my walk about that ridiculous,

00:48:12,162 --> 00:48:14,082

Amber heard Johnny Depp trial.

00:48:14,322 --> 00:48:14,742

00:48:15,492 --> 00:48:16,302

Do you remember that?

00:48:16,612 --> 00:48:16,902

00:48:16,922 --> 00:48:18,182

My nephew was obsessed with it.

00:48:18,582 --> 00:48:20,112

were obsessed with it at my work.

00:48:20,232 --> 00:48:20,522

00:48:21,129 --> 00:48:23,439

to look back on it now and to look at

00:48:23,439 --> 00:48:27,452

every, to, to see the fuller picture

of what actually happened to her and

00:48:27,452 --> 00:48:32,462

the way that we all just hated her,

mocked her, wrecked her over the coals.

00:48:32,729 --> 00:48:36,209

it's kind of sickening to, to

look back at the ways that we just

00:48:36,209 --> 00:48:37,709

gleefully participated in those things.

00:48:37,709 --> 00:48:38,219

Sometimes

00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:38,899

00:48:39,059 --> 00:48:42,419

you know, it may also be because

00:48:42,765 --> 00:48:44,385

we have to, we are compelled to,

00:48:44,745 --> 00:48:45,895

Again, it's a spectacle.

00:48:46,305 --> 00:48:46,515

00:48:46,915 --> 00:48:47,365

Right.

00:48:47,605 --> 00:48:51,325

And, and if it's happening to

someone else for a brief moment,

00:48:51,325 --> 00:48:52,705

maybe it's not happening to you.

00:48:53,282 --> 00:48:57,812

so Needy tries to tell Chip what she's

learned about Jennifer's affliction,

00:48:58,472 --> 00:48:59,762

and he's like, you need help.

00:48:59,762 --> 00:49:00,632

I'm worried about you.

00:49:00,632 --> 00:49:01,592

Which fair?

00:49:01,682 --> 00:49:01,922

You know.

00:49:02,082 --> 00:49:02,432

00:49:02,832 --> 00:49:03,882

Good for him for saying it.

00:49:03,882 --> 00:49:04,992

You're supposed to say it.

00:49:05,502 --> 00:49:08,082

If you're worried about

somebody, you need to tell them.

00:49:08,769 --> 00:49:10,179

I thought Chip was a good egg.

00:49:10,672 --> 00:49:14,182

there's no such thing as some Hannibal

Lecter who only eats the evil, Dexter

00:49:14,182 --> 00:49:16,912

only kills serial killers or whatever.

00:49:16,942 --> 00:49:19,342

No, she's a demon.

00:49:19,342 --> 00:49:20,062

She's a succubus.

00:49:20,062 --> 00:49:23,902

She has to feed, she's

an unstoppable force.

00:49:24,125 --> 00:49:29,225

You know, eventually she's gonna run

out of people that she can make a moral

00:49:29,225 --> 00:49:31,385

argument for why they deserve to die.

00:49:31,785 --> 00:49:38,055

which is another kind of interesting

way to complicate this purity slash rape

00:49:38,055 --> 00:49:39,585

culture slash patriarchy type thing.

00:49:39,585 --> 00:49:41,445

Like the scene where she says

like, I'm not killing people.

00:49:41,445 --> 00:49:42,495

I'm killing boys.

00:49:42,495 --> 00:49:42,555

I.

00:49:42,955 --> 00:49:46,465

That's not the feminist serve, and

we hear that all the time, right?

00:49:46,515 --> 00:49:47,025

00:49:47,415 --> 00:49:50,295

But, but you know, the thing about it,

when we talk about mis injury, which

00:49:50,295 --> 00:49:53,715

would be the, the word that we would

call this, um, the fact that women

00:49:53,715 --> 00:49:55,575

supposedly hate men and things like that.

00:49:55,875 --> 00:50:00,735

Um, we, we, we compare it to the, the hate

that men have for women as if women are

00:50:00,735 --> 00:50:05,285

out here sexualizing young men and raping

them and killing them and, having child

00:50:05,285 --> 00:50:06,905

porn of them and, and things like that.

00:50:06,905 --> 00:50:08,585

Women don't do that to men.

00:50:08,975 --> 00:50:09,245

Men

00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:09,710

00:50:09,755 --> 00:50:10,145

00:50:10,145 --> 00:50:14,975

So no matter how much women say we hate

men, I, I don't think it will ever compare

00:50:14,975 --> 00:50:17,135

to the actual hatred shown towards women

00:50:17,515 --> 00:50:17,905

men.

00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:21,200

driven home by the fact that Jennifer

00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:26,640

is, showing us what this would actually

need to look like in order to be remotely

00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:33,568

comparable to misogyny like as a

device, this demonic, this whole thing.

00:50:33,928 --> 00:50:38,098

Think about all the things that had to

slot into place in this made up world.

00:50:38,308 --> 00:50:43,542

This is a fictional place and it still

had to be a waxing moon on a, like geo

00:50:43,602 --> 00:50:45,972

logic feature that nobody understands.

00:50:45,972 --> 00:50:48,912

And a, a woman they thought was a

virgin, that it wasn't actually a

00:50:48,912 --> 00:50:51,842

virgin, that they only thought was a

virgin because her friend overheard

00:50:51,842 --> 00:50:53,552

them saying that and lied to them.

00:50:53,762 --> 00:50:58,472

Like even in this fictional universe,

the odds are so low that the stakes

00:50:58,832 --> 00:51:03,422

rise for boys to the level that they

are comparable to what women risk.

00:51:03,732 --> 00:51:04,082

00:51:04,592 --> 00:51:06,632

That was really convoluted.

00:51:07,032 --> 00:51:07,877

I got where you're going.

00:51:13,222 --> 00:51:15,892

so Needy convinces Chip to, or

00:51:15,892 --> 00:51:18,472

she's trying to convince Chip

to stay home from this dance.

00:51:18,952 --> 00:51:21,172

She's gonna be at it so she can

watch Jennifer because she thinks

00:51:21,172 --> 00:51:23,452

the dance is gonna be a feeding

frenzy and she's probably right.

00:51:24,296 --> 00:51:29,546

and we cut to him at, at home and he's

like flexing in the mirror, you know,

00:51:29,546 --> 00:51:31,586

getting ready for the, for the dance.

00:51:31,856 --> 00:51:36,926

And I thought this was a really cool

and sweet scene to show us where

00:51:36,926 --> 00:51:42,116

Chip is develop developmentally,

like who he is, how he participates

00:51:42,116 --> 00:51:45,816

in this, in the thing that's being

criticized here, which is like rape

00:51:45,816 --> 00:51:48,349

culture and, the worst of patriarchy.

00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:52,729

'cause he's just kind of a skinny boy

flexing in his mirror at home and then

00:51:52,729 --> 00:51:56,959

his mom hands him a can of pink mace.

00:51:57,604 --> 00:52:01,444

It wasn't just mace it, it had it said

like Pink Lady or something on it.

00:52:01,444 --> 00:52:03,664

It was, it was very effeminate.

00:52:03,988 --> 00:52:06,058

he's like, I can take care of myself.

00:52:06,058 --> 00:52:07,798

And she's like, I don't think so.

00:52:08,198 --> 00:52:11,768

Like boys bigger than you have

been slaughtered by something.

00:52:11,828 --> 00:52:12,398

Take this.

00:52:12,398 --> 00:52:13,268

And he does.

00:52:13,668 --> 00:52:18,678

And then like as luck would have

it on his way to the dance, he is

00:52:18,678 --> 00:52:21,498

escorted there by the monster itself.

00:52:22,013 --> 00:52:22,523

00:52:22,923 --> 00:52:25,323

Oh, Jennifer chose him,

00:52:25,723 --> 00:52:26,073

right?

00:52:26,393 --> 00:52:27,443

you think it had to do with the

00:52:27,443 --> 00:52:28,913

fact that he had now had sex?

00:52:28,913 --> 00:52:32,603

Do you think that was like, because

I, I think in a lot of movies after

00:52:32,603 --> 00:52:35,093

they have sex, they're vulnerable

to the monster or whatever.

00:52:35,393 --> 00:52:35,813

As long as

00:52:35,883 --> 00:52:36,043