We're back! And, to kick off season 3, Let us introduce ourselves to you. We dive into a discussion about personal traits and their impact on our work, friendship, and journeys with self-care as Professional Helpers and now...Podcast hosts.

Don't self-care alone! Let us know about your journey!

• @beingthework on patreon
• Email us at: Beingthework@gmail.com
• DM us on instagram @beingthework
• Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts!
• Support us in our mission of building connections between helping professionals and providing quality content.

Just in case you want them, here are the books we reference.

Enneagram

• Enneagram Institute to figure out the difference between 4 and 9.
• The Essential Enneagram- David Daniels & Virginia Price
• The Road Back to You- Ian Cron & Suzanne Stabile

Mindfulness resource- Waking Up app

And...As Always remember, we aren't your helpers. What you hear and read is solely our opinion. Please seek your own professional help if you need it.

Hi, everyone.

2

Welcome back.

3

This is Being the Work.

4

I'm Ben, and I'm here with my

good friend, Blakely Adams.

5

We're starting season three.

6

Being the Work was created three years

ago, you know, it's a podcast all

7

about bringing you our journeys towards

self care, supporting each other,

8

supporting you.

9

on your journey to self care, trying to

give just more humanity to that term.

10

, . We've been through a lot and

we've grown through a lot.

11

Blakely: started planning another set

of conversations to share and realized

12

that Through this process, we've, we

have changed, we have grown, we have

13

tried new things, we've quit doing

things, and so much of it is because

14

of this process that I, at least, I'm

excited to reinvest in, in what we're

15

doing here and how it's going and, and

report back what, what this means to

16

us and what being involved with it has,

has kind of changed for me personally.

17

Ben: yeah, definitely is.

18

It's definitely like spurred on a lot

more like intentional self care for me.

19

when I look back on all the things that

have happened maybe in the last three

20

years from the pandemic to, Some near

death experiences with some family members

21

with, other traumatic experiences while

also having these conversations And the

22

interviews that we've done on my mind,

it really has been like just this, like.

23

Big opening, this vastness of,

understanding what compassion really is.

24

Blakely: Mm.

25

Ben: And especially this challenge of

self compassion I mean, it really has,

26

I feel like it's really starting to

settle in, like, why, what's the point?

27

What the point of, of expecting

yourself to not be flawed?.

28

I had a, I had a sort of breakthrough

in my therapy the other week

29

we were so close to finishing that

intro, but we, sorry, I was too excited

30

to talk about the breakthrough that

I've had in my therapy recently,

31

um, that sort of led into a

conversation about the Enneagram and.

32

How I'm understanding myself and all

that, I started therapy not too long

33

ago after a traumatic incident with,

uh, my dogs and my dogs are fine.

34

Um, they've bounced back really well

and a whole lot faster than I did.

35

but it, enforces, reinforces

just this whole idea that.

36

To do our jobs, we need to be well and,

we need to take care of ourselves and

37

it's, I don't know about you, but it's a

lot easier for me to take care of myself

38

when I know there are people out there

who really care and who are behind me.

39

So today we're going to go through

just how we understand each other.

40

We use some common language that is

popular out there, um, Enneagram,

41

Zodiac Signs, Strength Finder, uh, Myers

Briggs, all of which could be somewhat

42

problematic, but point is the common

language and the springboard to help

43

us, discuss our lived experiences.

44

know what it's like to be helping

professionals that always have huge

45

caseloads and every moment of the

day is is taxed by things that need

46

our attention from documentation and

administration and, and the people

47

that need help and are suffering

and how it's easy it is to kick

48

our own, needs, down the road.

49

I hope you can relate to some of

the things that we're going through.

50

if you have any stories,

questions, have any ideas for

51

Blakely and I to try for self care?

52

We would love to hear from you.

53

You can get a hold of us on

Instagram, at beingthework We're

54

on LinkedIn at the same handle now.

55

You can also email us

beingthework at gmail.

56

com there's a lot of professionals

out there that do this work that are

57

feeling the same ways that we are

58

We would love to be able to reach them.

59

And if you'd like to support the

podcast, please go out to iTunes or

60

any listening app that you're using

and leave us a positive review.

61

It'll really help get the word out

so we can reach those folks as well.

62

Another way that you can support

this podcast is At patrion.com/being

63

the work we've opened up.

64

To begin to get a community together.

65

so yeah, check us out there again,

that's patrion.com/being the work.

66

You can also support this podcast.

67

by going to being the work.com/support.

68

you can find that link in the show notes.

69

We bring this work to you on our free

time because we are passionate about this.

70

It would be, great to, help

us just pay for the platforms

71

that we're using for this.

72

So if you'd like to support the

show, please leave us a tip.

73

That would be amazing, amazing, amazing.

74

We care about what we're doing here,

and we just want to support you in

75

living a life that is meaningful

to you, and helping others find

76

meaning for their lives as well.

77

So, without further ado, we are so

excited to bring you this conversation....

78

About the update of where we are

in our lives of helping and trying

79

to Move forward in being the work.

80

Yeah, so, okay, , I was reading

through, the, the Suzanne Stabile,

81

Blakely: Oh yeah.

82

Ben: So I'm walking the dogs and I'm

listening to this chapter on number

83

nines and I'm like, Oh, I do that.

84

Oh, I do that too.

85

I totally do that.

86

Oh my God.

87

I remember when I did

that when I was five.

88

Like more and more, the whole

chapter, I'm just sitting there going.

89

Oh, yeah, oh, oh, ah, just

90

Blakely: Huh.

91

Ben: ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

92

then I read, and then I read

the, the chapter on the fours.

93

And I'm like, no, no, no, oh,

yeah, uh huh, yeah, that, oh,

94

but that's very much a nine.

95

it was just like, incredible, just

the amount of resonance from the

96

nine chapter versus the four chapter.

97

Blakely: Okay.

98

Ben: but the, the idea of shame, from

the four perspective, is very much a,

99

That from the nines perspective, it feels

like it's your voice isn't asked for.

100

don't provide it.

101

and so that the, I don't know that

I can trust myself kind of feel.

102

then the, and then the four,

they feel like they're completely

103

different from everyone.

104

Right.

105

But they're not hidden about it.

106

They are pursuing.

107

to be seen, and I don't do that.

108

Blakely: But that's an action.

109

Like, I don't, I don't know.

110

I don't know that I'm convinced

that the behavior is the answer.

111

Like, that doesn't mean

that you're a four.

112

But I think that the motivation

is the, is the key piece, right?

113

It what you do to get there.

114

If you're not an extrovert, but you're

a four, you're going to handle that

115

differently than if an extroverted four.

116

Ben: sure.

117

Blakely: This process that we are on

right now would indicate that you are

118

very actively seeking for people to listen

to your perspective and understand you.

119

So there's a piece sense that isn't.

120

That isn't necessarily an

artistically exuberant thing,

121

but it's still art artistry.

122

Ben: Okay, healthy nines.

123

mediators, they see value and

perspective of other people.

124

and can harmonize what seems

irreconcilable points of view.

125

Unselfish, flexible, inclusive,

seldom attach their own way of

126

seeing or doing things, learn to make

decisions based on right priority,

127

inspiring self actualized people.

128

So like, the, the

relationship with others.

129

Is no longer about like, it's there is

a desire for comfort because that's,

130

that's the nines, deadly sin or whatever.

131

Blakely: Sloth.

132

Ben: that's their, yeah, where

I've been overly dependent, dull

133

to feelings of sadness, anger.

134

so, I

135

Blakely: I read the

misidentifying fours and nines

136

the Enneagram Institute?

137

Ben: yes,

138

Blakely: Let's see what that says.

139

Ben: please, mm hmm,

140

Blakely: Some average nines think

that they are fours because they

141

have artistic talents and creative

inclinations of one kind or another.

142

As in the case of love not being the

sole domain of twos, artistic capacity

143

is not the sole province of force.

144

other types can be and often are

artists, even so the artistry of

145

fours is much more personal and self

revealing than that of the nines.

146

The art of nines often

expresses idealized mythological

147

worlds, usually the real world glossed

into something fantastic and wondrous.

148

Nines are often gifted storytellers,

in which, and they all lived

149

happily ever after, is assured.

150

There are no unhappy endings in

the nines world of make believe.

151

By contrast, the art of fours

generally more personal and realistic.

152

The expression of the fours, and deep

longing for love, wholeness, and meaning.

153

Ben: goddammit.

154

Blakely: often deal in the tragic.

155

Finding redemption in self transcendence.

156

Nine's deal in the commonplace.

157

Finding comfort in

ordinary lives and simple

158

Ben: Fuck you.

159

Okay.

160

Mm

161

Blakely: Ha ha ha!

162

Boo!

163

And I didn't rea I, I was glancing

at it, because of course I was

164

Googling it while we were talking,

165

and I saw something about the

fantastical versus the, like, idealized.

166

Or, sorry, the fantastical

versus the personal.

167

Ben: hmm.

168

Blakely: I was like, let me see what

this is, because it may be saying

169

kind of what I'm wondering about.

170

Ben: Sure.

171

Sure.

172

Blakely: The principal reason

these types may be confused is

173

they are both withdrawn types.

174

Ben: Mm hmm.

175

Yeah.

176

Blakely: from others so that

they can protect themselves time

177

to deal with their emotions.

178

Ben: Mm

179

Blakely: on the other are withdrawn.

180

Are withdrawn in the sense that they

remove their attention from people

181

or situations that threaten them,

disengaging themselves emotionally so

182

that they will not be anxious or upset.

183

Ben: Yeah.

184

Okay.

185

Blakely: That's

186

Ben: I mean, definitely,

187

Blakely: like

188

Ben: definitely, are resonating.

189

Yeah.

190

Blakely: but both do right.

191

Average to unhealthy nines, tune out

any unpleasantness by dissociating

192

from whatever upsets them.

193

This is why you only watch comedies.

194

Ben: But, that's in response to my job.

195

Which

196

Blakely: response I'm

looking at this work.

197

I'm looking at your dissertation work.

198

I'm looking at your entire

career, all of that.

199

All of that, everything that I've ever

spoken to you about, and the reason

200

that probably close friends that aren't

just hangout friends, are actual, like,

201

existential level friends, is cause

of some of that more intense stuff.

202

You're talking about

everyone's connectability.

203

So

204

Ben: because I was researching your stuff

you know, it's interesting that we're

205

going through, sort of like a check in

or even maybe a reintroducing ourselves

206

to the people that are listening.

207

But, like, You really like the question to

our guests, give us the, the bullet points

208

of the cheat sheet of who, who are you and

what's your, what's your personality like?

209

so Myers Briggs, which I'm not

really great at, you're really

210

good at Obviously, the Enneagram,

211

What's the other one?

212

Blakely: StrengthsFinder.

213

Ben: Yeah, I didn't do that

one, for today, but your INTP.

214

deep thinker, complex interconnection of

the world, quest for truth, meticulous

215

consideration of complexities, that, yeah,

that's part of like why, like, okay, so

216

like that and some of this other stuff,

like the Sagittarius Capricorn stuff, I

217

just sort of lit, made list of strengths,

like curious, interested, aspirational,

218

practical, honest, deep thinking.

219

It's like this mixture of, Reason and

emotion to me, that's way I'm kind of.

220

thinking about it,

221

Blakely: That makes sense.

222

Ben: like your ability to catch on to

that pattern of something that I'm talking

223

about, when I was reading the chapter

on, on nines, all of the behaviors.

224

did seem like a spitting image of

225

Blakely: Mm hmm.

226

Ben: but I did feel like the, the

motivation sort of was missing,

227

Blakely: Mm hmm.

228

that's what bothered me about that book

in general I hear Suzanne speak, and

229

she speaks to the motivation primarily.

230

She keeps going back

231

Ben: Mm hmm.

232

Mm

233

hmm.

234

Blakely: And then I read that book,

and there's so much there that is

235

about this, like, almost an archetype

of the behavior of the person.

236

Ben: Exactly.

237

Blakely: Some does, some soul

does not fit me from both types

238

that I've considered that.

239

It kind of loses me, and so I just

have to go back like, awareness

240

of my motivations, my awareness

of those, the instinctual things,

241

Ben: right.

242

right.

243

Blakely: rather than the habits,

244

Ben: Which I also, that's part of why I

don't like the Myers Briggs, is because

245

it's, it's like archetypal kind of

246

Blakely: very much.

247

Ben: discussion, and it's like, here, here

is your box, and I don't see it that way.

248

I'm, I'm very much we are so complex.

249

we're, we're dynamic We're

not, building blocks.

250

not legos.

251

Blakely: I'm also kind of cheating,

because my other dude best friend is

252

a nine, Which, that seems easy to say,

but, he behaves as a nine much more.

253

Ben: you're talking, um, seeks

comfort, avoids conflict, or even,

254

like, the hard, truths of life, maybe.

255

Blakely: well, and even the stuff of,

like, he's a very creative person,

256

and so much of that resides in a

lot of, like, consumption of and

257

movies and television and, things

that are in sort of that fantastical

258

world place typically happy endings.

259

Not the deep emotional stuff.

260

The, let's see.

261

Both types can be shy,

absent minded, confused, and

262

detached from the real world.

263

The difference is that the nines

are detached both from the external

264

world, And from their emotions.

265

Whereas fours withdraw from

whatever has caused them pain,

266

Ben: Oh.

267

Blakely: Nines see the world

through rose colored glasses, and

268

their view of it is comforting.

269

Whereas fours see the world from a garret

window as outsiders and are not comforted.

270

Everyone else seems to be living

a happier, more normal life.

271

Contrast the Oh.

272

Oh, they're using, like, celebrities.

273

I don't want to do that.

274

Ben: Got it.

275

Blakely: A bunch of dudes from history.

276

Like, those tell me anything about me.

277

Thanks.

278

Dead white men don't tell me about me.

279

Ben: Ha ha ha ha

280

Blakely: that's where you lost me.

281

Ben: ha

282

Blakely: I was in, and now I'm out.

283

Ben: Yeah.

284

Blakely: Uh,

285

Ben: No, okay, well, I guess it's not as

286

Blakely: and I can see you living

in place, and I don't know.

287

The only reason this is true is if we

buy into this concept of nine set types.

288

And it seems to show up

as true most of the time.

289

Ben: what seems to really resonate

with me is this beauty in pain,

290

uh, beauty and sadness, like beauty

and, uh, just the sort of tragic.

291

Blakely: And that appreciation alone

still makes me lean in the four direction.

292

Because you're, I mean, you're

anything but a Pollyanna.

293

much this is gender socialization?

294

And how much of this is generational?

295

top of, like, those cultural

elements you as a person?

296

Ben: this is sort of, it's reminding me

of our, our name, being the work, like

297

we're trying to understand ourselves and

we're trying to, figure out how we can

298

live lives that, that really work well

for us, that are, not just objectified,

299

I want to be, I want to be me.

300

And, I wanna be appreciated for me.

301

Blakely: Absolutely.

302

Ben: and I, I really appreciate

what I do and I appreciate

303

the people who do what I do.

304

of course, that we have the ability the

privilege to be helping people understand

305

themselves and, be willing to grow

and do the hard things that they need

306

to do to understand and to to change.

307

And, I mean, I had a session

yesterday that was exquisitely

308

painful and just enormously beautiful.

309

Like there's just this

precipice of that's the future.

310

This is the pain of the present right now.

311

I am so sorry that this is the truth and

that this is what you've been living with.

312

also we've got to continue to

look and I mean, you have the

313

option of going backwards.

314

I mean, it's that existential

red pill, blue pill thing, right?

315

What Are you going to live in the full

reality of who you are and what you need

316

and what you love and what you value?

317

Or are you going to go backwards and

continue to objectify yourself and expect

318

yourself to just accept and be fulfilled

by the things that aren't fulfilling?

319

And treat you poorly, And take advantage

of you and flattening yourself to 2d

320

Blakely: Mm.

321

Ben: it was painful.

322

I didn't want to be there.

323

I found myself even wanting

to intellectualize to a place

324

of just soothing myself.

325

Blakely: Mm.

326

Ben: I found myself doing that.

327

And I was like, no, no, just stop.

328

I, and I apologized.

329

I was like, no, I'm doing it.

330

Like I'm trying to give us an out.

331

I feel like we should, like,

this is really important.

332

And I just want you to

know I'm here with you.

333

Oh, lots of tears, lots of heaviness.

334

And think this is going to be very good.

335

Like I'm very excited for this.

336

And I'm also very sorry.

337

That I facilitated that pain, but I'm

not sorry that I facilitated the honesty.

338

Oh, it was beautiful.

339

And so I don't know,

340

Blakely: pain and conflict kind of fall

in the same category in that way, in

341

the way that I have to think about them.

342

Like pain with a purpose.

343

There's no reason be sorry for that.

344

is part of the process.

345

Life is suffering.

346

We have to suffer to grow.

347

Growing pains exist for a reason.

348

Feel it because it deserves to be felt.

349

The pain is a message.

350

Pain we choose has a different

kind of power than upon us.

351

pain of growing through our trauma can be

powerful enough counteract the agony of

352

enduring our trauma in the first place.

353

Ben: It's, uh, yeah, it's incredible.

354

Yeah, it really is.

355

Blakely: Well, and just simple ways

of pushing them through the pain.

356

That's just not as, it's not

the same, but it feels similar.

357

You my five year old wants to

climb trees and she scrapes her leg

358

Ben: right.

359

Blakely: to tell her that's part

of being someone who climbs trees.

360

Ben: Yeah.

361

Blakely: Wear it.

362

Ben: Yeah.

363

Blakely: You earned your scrapes.

364

Ben: That's funny.

365

/

I had a, I had a sort of breakthrough in my therapy the other week about this.

366

specific topic, which

was really interesting.

367

I don't know if you, if we should

get into this right now, but it was

368

really cool because, my therapist like

helped me sort of name different parts

369

of, of myself and my experiences.

370

And then, I don't know why, but I named

this part of me Ferdinand, like the bull.

371

Yeah.

372

And I have no idea why.

373

I've never read that book, But

it just popped into my head

374

as, as it, as we were doing it.

375

And,

376

Blakely: Well, and are you partly

talking about the division between

377

yourself in, like, counseling

spaces and personal spaces?

378

Ben: For sure.

379

Yeah.

380

Yeah.

381

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

382

Like I didn't, for whatever reason, I

didn't put two and two together that, the

383

passion and amount of empathy that I put

toward other people, and how much I care.

384

for others that I could

do that for myself.

385

I mean, it sounds incredibly

simple, but it is astonishingly,

386

astonishingly, just how little I see it

387

Blakely: the most important stuff

is very simple and not easy.

388

Ben: So simple.

389

Blakely: what is mindfulness?

390

We all know it, all it,

all teaching it, probably.

391

So simple

392

and So

393

challenging.

394

Ben: this, this process with my therapist

was really built on all of the mindfulness

395

training I did for myself rather

than trying to learn it to teach it.

396

And, yeah, I just sat with it

and, and I saw, I saw the, the

397

thousands, like, okay, so Ferdinand.

398

Was looking like a bull in my mind,

not me, but I knew him as like, very

399

recognizable, sort of like a dream.

400

Like we were doing mindfulness.

401

We were doing some EMDR and I saw

him as a very recognizable person,

402

but I didn't know exactly who he was.

403

And there was me, like we were

just sitting with each other.

404

And then it was just like this aha

connection, like holy shit, that's me.

405

Oh my god, he's sitting with

me like I sit with others.

406

this immense, just empathy, unconditional

regard, and openness and genuineness.

407

Like, you are allowed here.

408

And I go, oh my god.

409

Like, holy

410

shit.

411

Blakely: You know what I do sometimes?

412

Ben: Oh,

413

Blakely: When I'm cruising around,

I don't like to take the highways

414

all the time, and so on my GPS I'll

turn the avoid highways settings on.

415

And then I'm going somewhere and

I'm like, why does it take 45

416

minutes to go right over there?

417

And then if I just flip that setting,

418

what was 45 minutes

turns out to be like 10.

419

Because I don't have to go from point

A and B, which as the crow are a mile

420

apart, and go 15 miles around on this back

You've been back roading your whole life

421

Ben: Yeah.

422

Blakely: on just how you like

internally support yourself.

423

Ben: Yeah.

424

Blakely: Shit,

425

Ben: Yeah.

426

Yeah.

427

It was incredible.

428

Blakely: man, this never stops.

429

Ben: No.

430

Blakely: And it's right in this space.

431

It's you and me.

432

And the reason that I want to keep

pushing this out and want to keep

433

spreading it as I'm convinced is not

just you and me, that this parallel

434

process of how we keep growing finding

435

Ben: Right.

436

Blakely: the concentric circles

of like who we are and how can

437

be and what's inside of us.

438

that thing that they taught us

about, like, we only use like 10

439

percent of our brains back in the

440

Ben: Sure.

441

Sure.

442

Blakely: Like this is what they meant.

443

You drew a literal line

where there wasn't one

444

before.

445

And those things were so close together,

they just didn't have a connecting

446

Ben: But that's the funny part, right?

447

it had to be facilitated.

448

I didn't actually draw it.

449

was a part of me that naturally in that

moment, because the setting was correct,

450

the things were set to give this.

451

it naturally emerged.

452

It was not something that I chose to draw.

453

Because it wasn't even in my

consciousness, didn't even know.

454

And that's the piece that's

like, Okay, like, we are trained

455

to do all this stuff so...

456

meticulously and expertly and

all of this, we forget often

457

just the power of the unknown

458

Blakely: Yeah.

459

Ben: So I don't know.

460

I think that is the essence of being

the work, we have to slow down.

461

We have to take care of ourselves

and take care of each other

462

and look out for one another.

463

Blakely: and being the work

may be the ambitious, like the

464

ultimate self actualization point.

465

Because as we go through it, It's

continual, it's not linear, but it is

466

a process of becoming It's becoming

a part of the, discipline required

467

to care for and appreciate

and nurture myself.

468

Ben: no one else will do it.

469

Blakely: and no one else gives a

470

Ben: no, no,

471

Blakely: and this one of those things that

this is the point that again, this is how

472

we're probably different in the room is

I'll apologize for saying it, but the fact

473

of the matter is no one else gives a shit.

474

No cares as much as you do about

what's happening inside of you.

475

They can't

476

they have their own.

477

Ben: It's just impossible.

478

Blakely: It's impossible.

479

It's just not possible.

480

No one else can care as much about all

of these internal processes as you,

481

because they don't even know they exist.

482

You barely know they exist.

483

You're talking about not having this very,

like, close together point of connecting

484

that couldn't create for yourself,

485

Ben: Yeah.

486

Just,

487

Blakely: this point of facilitation.

488

Ben: yeah.

489

Back to back with this, part of me.

490

Blakely: And I have to continually point

out that Ben does not like for me to

491

say, What you need resides within you.

492

Ben wants the reaching out.

493

And I, I, and I requiring people be part

my And this is just what I'm talking

494

about, our parallel processes these

like, two sided coins and we come at

495

things from opposite directions and then

we end up in the same fucking place.

496

Ben: hmm.

497

Blakely: I don't want

someone else involved.

498

Even if I need it, and that's what's

hard for me, and you don't want

499

to, like, journey within, alone,

even when that's what's required.

500

Ben: Why do you think that is?

501

because, I mean, for me,

I have felt alone a lot.

502

that's, it's, an incredibly familiar

503

Blakely: Yeah, and that's, and me too, and

that's why it's hard for me to understand

504

the, but you're the only one that you

know you can trust with this stuff.

505

Ben: I'm the only one that I know I can

trust, but I long to not be the only one.

506

Blakely: Ooh, and that was an eight

statement I just made, I'm realizing.

507

Ben: Yeah, absolutely.

508

Blakely: you've been alone so much,

you're the only one you can trust.

509

Ben: Right.

510

Right.

511

Blakely: And, and I don't necessarily

512

Ben: I don't know which one is it.

513

Which one is it?

514

Sagittarius or Capricorn that

is, uh, high standard, stubborn,

515

aloof, and put walls up.

516

Yeah, your walls are like, it's this

perfect, happening of me, I don't know

517

why exactly, but wanting to get overthrew

under your walls, that kind of got us into

518

this dance of, are we going to be friends?

519

Blakely: right,

520

Ben: Because you don't trust people

very easy, and you, you judge quickly,

521

and like, I gotta figure out if this

person's gonna be consistent, and

522

always looking for inconsistent, and

pattern, finding, and, seeing how

523

much of the complexity really is this.

524

Is this consistent?

525

And that, INTP quest for truth?

526

and then when you find

it, you stick to it.

527

Like better, yes.

528

Like you better fucking stay

with that or else kind of thing.

529

You like, oh, it said,

uh, demands precision.

530

Blakely: mm

531

hmm,

532

oh,

533

into a semantics argument

with me, Ben, oh my gosh.

534

Ben: Right.

535

Blakely: How times have my,

like, marital arguments landed on

536

that's not the one word I used.

537

I used this other word, which

has a different meaning.

538

And I'm feeling irritated just

about it right now because I

539

choose my words on purpose.

540

Ben: hmm.

541

Right.

542

you choose them quickly, too,

which is is really mind boggling

543

to me for you, it's like.

544

You go through that process in 0.

545

3 seconds and know what

you're going to say.

546

Blakely: it's...

547

It's a, um, it's a reverse process

because I think I became aware that my

548

ways of expressing myself needed to be

precise in order for people to hear me

549

because I was a forceful kind of child.

550

I had big opinions and big ideas

and questions, huge questions.

551

And I got a lot of weird kickback for

it, what felt weird to me as a child.

552

I was also growing into a reader.

553

And, and starting to learn the

nuances between some different words.

554

And so I think I put some of that

together that if I craft my messaging

555

so that it's very particular to

what I mean, I be misunderstood.

556

If I at least can't be misunderstood.

557

Ben: Right.

558

Blakely: Then that will

diffuse so much conflict.

559

That at least I can control.

560

That's what's within my control,

is what I actually say, I'm

561

probably going to still say.

562

It's

563

Ben: Right.

564

Right.

565

I'm having a hard time finding

the connections of for this.

566

What the.

567

Whatever.

568

Cusp, Sagittarius, Capricorn, and INTP,

and maybe this isn't even the point.

569

Maybe this is just me, like,

570

Blakely: These are parts of me.

571

Ben: wanting to get intellectual here.

572

But what's the crossover

between that and 8s?

573

I mean, 8s are...

574

In your face.

575

They're passionate.

576

They want to drive forward.

577

they don't trust very easily.

578

Blakely: You know, I think the simplest

way I could describe it, if I sit as

579

an 8, I feel that Sagittarius is a 7,

580

Ben: Hmm.

581

Blakely: and Capricorn is a 9.

582

Ben: Interesting.

583

Blakely: I feel like there's a little

bit more of the responsible stuff that

584

lands with Capricorn, like a little bit

more rigidity, probably, than the, the.

585

The relaxed part of Nines, but there's

just a slower pace of Capricorn, I

586

think, of taking things in and thinking

things through and pretty particular

587

about proceeding through things.

588

Ben: Where Sagittarius more...

589

Blakely: like some of the intensity

I have definitely lands there.

590

But there's just so much, there's

more, enthusiasm and there,

591

Ben: and flexibility.

592

Flexibility, aspiration,

593

Blakely: like the idealist what could be.

594

that future oriented piece.

595

Mm hmm.

596

And so I think it's borrowing, I that

that's where the eight made sense to me.

597

Because I, I don't know if, we're

assuming that all this is true.

598

The Zodiac part made a lot of

sense to me when I realized I

599

was in between these two pieces.

600

And then, I feel like the eight

locks into that just in a nice way

601

of how it feels like I'm divided in.

602

Don't know why, I'm like afraid I'm a six,

and I think it's because it's actually

603

like the worst case scenario to me.

604

Ben: A six is the worst case scenario?

605

Blakely: I don't know if I

would cringe more at being a

606

one or a six, a six I think.

607

And it's because of, it's because of what

eights hate, which is that like, ugh, the

608

sniveling, scared person vulnerability.

609

it together.

610

are nervous about?

611

Why are you showing that to everyone?

612

Put it away.

613

Put it away.

614

Anyway.

615

Did

616

Ben: hmm.

617

Blakely: I don't know, maybe this is

just part of my journey, I feel like

618

I'm divided into two different parts.

619

And putting those together is what

I've been working at, through this time

620

that we've been talking about this.

621

Some of it

622

to

623

because I've changed

the elements of my life.

624

And some of it has been

so much on purpose.

625

Ben: it makes, it makes a lot

of sense to me because, we, we

626

started this knowing that, we do

this work and it's really easy.

627

Like we, we are professional helpers.

628

It's really easy to get lost

in helping other people.

629

It's really easy because the system,

the way that the system is, is working

630

and created it's about productivity.

631

It's about behavior.

632

It's, and it's about getting things done.

633

It's not about relationship.

634

It's not, doesn't care

about how well you are.

635

It's how much you do.

636

it's not about the quality of the work.

637

It's about how much of

the work you get done.

638

And the only work that really matters.

639

In that point of view is money and

what's related to money documentation.

640

not about did somebody really.

641

Uh, really qualitatively find courage to

get through a very hard, difficult time.

642

And now they don't have to come

see me nearly as much because

643

they finally made that connection

of what was holding them back.

644

No, it doesn't.

645

They don't like the system doesn't care.

646

And so we get taken advantage of.

647

We get objectified.

648

And because of that, our

relationships with each other

649

are not great most of the time.

650

And so supporting one another and being

with one another and, um, you know, being

651

for ourselves rather than for our clients

or for the system or anything like that,

652

it's just not, it's not made for that.

653

And so we have to turn toward

ourselves and turn toward

654

each other and be the work.

655

We got to do our own work.

656

And that's what this is.

657

This is, that's what this is all about.

658

Blakely: it's so strange to look at,

not objectively, because now I know

659

so much, but to look back at where

you start, and then where you end

660

up, there's like a 10 year span in

there that I just dove into work.

661

I, I was a student from

age five to age 25.

662

I spent 20 years collecting book

knowledge and developing into being

663

an adult on some level and never

fucking feeling like I'm an adult.

664

Let's be very clear.

665

I Never.

666

feel like a grown up.

667

And

668

Ben: me

669

Blakely: into work, but I was

actually becoming more of a grown up.

670

While I'm diving into all of this work,

I threw all of what I had into it.

671

I've spent all of my time learning

and growing and anticipating

672

how I could apply this.

673

I remember being an undergrad and

being, you know, having that grooming

674

to go on to grad school immediately

and saying to my professor, like, I

675

don't know enough about existing as

a person to go and research people.

676

Ben: hmm.

677

Blakely: I have to go be a person

for a while and figure it out.

678

And I still am not sure

that I ever did that

679

Ben: Mm.

680

Blakely: because I decided to go

and get my degree in social work.

681

I took a year of doing some

social work, learning that

682

social work is more what fit me.

683

I went and got that degree and then

I started working in child welfare

684

and it just, zoom, like it takes off.

685

And Slowly start chipping away

because you're inundated with decision

686

making inundated with responsibility.

687

That you slowly start chipping away

at what feels right in gut to do

688

what you know you have to do in the

paperwork and in the courtroom and in

689

the hospital and people's scary houses.

690

I very quickly became more

concerned with getting lice than...

691

Withholding to my comfort zone.

692

Ben: Mm

693

Blakely: I was already out of my comfort

zone, so that's just garbage pile.

694

Ben: And to safely

695

Blakely: comfort?

696

Absolutely!

697

Where to Park, How late

I could have a meeting?

698

Thinking about when changes so

that it's so dark at o'clock

699

that can't go do home visits.

700

So I need to do them earlier in

But people don't get home until the

701

evening so I am going in the dark

702

So, I'm

703

Ben: You're like, oh, next week,

the sun is setting, uh, 30 minutes

704

earlier, so we need to make sure

that we get done at a certain time,

705

Blakely: The ridiculous

706

things

707

yeah,

708

just to stay afloat, start to take

the forefront of decision making

709

and take the forefront of my,

like, actual thought processes.

710

so much we have to throw to the

wayside and throw in the background

711

and say I'll deal with it later.

712

It catches up, and it did catch up.

713

I got further and further away

from myself, so that I really

714

started to question, do I know her?

715

Ben: Right.

716

Yeah.

717

Blakely: some shit I used to know

about her that I haven't seen

718

evidence of in several years.

719

And I thought that's what I knew.

720

what I thought I knew already.

721

It's everyone else I needed to learn.

722

Ben: Exactly.

723

Blakely: It all just keeps spiraling

in on itself, and I have this strong

724

belief in the ways that things turn

over, in the in the turning of

725

the wheel of time, in the arboros,

726

Ben: Rober-os.

727

Blakely: arboros, every time I can't

say, still appreciate the imagery of.

728

Ben: Yes.

729

Blakely: and that was the

thing that was right there for

730

me, that I also couldn't see.

731

believe it, I know it, and

I still can't see it either.

732

Ben: I think that's the, a huge

thing that I've, I've maybe come

733

to like a big stepping stone or a

big developmental milestone is maybe

734

five, seven years ago, I started

to realize how much I didn't know.

735

think maybe I just started to slow

down and look around me and go, all

736

of the energy you're expending to

desperately get all of the information.

737

this is a never ending,

you will never get there.

738

And it just started to like,

naturally, Be unmotivational, I

739

realized, I just realized, oh,

you can see I got to slow down

740

Blakely: like

741

Ben: I looked around and I'm like, you

don't really like yourself that was

742

a huge thing of like, you think you

need to be an expert to like yourself.

743

Because everybody else has shown you,

and told you, you're not really that

744

valuable unless you know a lot, or you

have that license, or you can work with

745

that hard client, or whatever, unless

you have really good clinical feedback

746

to give in, in, group supervision, I

started to realize, unintentional,

747

but you have been an asshole.

748

you've objectified yourself and

everyone else along the way, and

749

this is exactly what you don't want

to do, and it's time to slow down.

750

Yeah.