We're diving into the chaotic world of "Switch," where a womanizing ad executive meets his messy demise and gets a second chance at life—this time in the body of a woman! As we chat about the film's wild ride through gender dynamics and personal growth, we can't help but crack jokes about the absurdity of it all. From the hilarious jello salad that steals the Thanksgiving spotlight to the awkward moments that come with switching genders, we explore how Steve's transformation reveals the ridiculousness of toxic masculinity. Plus, we reminisce about our own Thanksgiving mishaps and the heartwarming (and sometimes cringe-worthy) lessons learned. So grab your favorite snack, kick back, and join us for a fun-filled discussion of a film that’s as thought-provoking as it is entertaining!

As the leaves change and the air turns crisp, we’re diving into the hilariously chaotic world of holiday preparations, turkey dilemmas, and a sprinkle of nostalgia. We kick things off with a light-hearted banter about the rapid approach of Thanksgiving and the inevitable family gatherings. You know how it goes—everyone's got that one dish, and this year, it’s all about the infamous jello salad featuring those delightful circus peanuts. Yeah, you heard it right! We’re talking about a dish that smells vaguely like nail polish but brings back waves of childhood memories. We joke about the trials of navigating family dynamics while secretly wondering if Aunt Gloria will finally wear pants this year. Spoiler alert: laughs are guaranteed as we recount past Thanksgivings filled with awkward questions and questionable culinary choices. Along the way, we also reminisce about classic candies, those deliciously weird treats that define our childhoods and discuss the quirky evolution of candy companies over the years, all while keeping the mood light and full of chuckles.

As the episode progresses, we delve into the world of 1991 cinema, focusing on the film “Switch,” where we explore themes of gender identity and the hilarity that ensues when a notorious womanizer finds himself reincarnated as a woman. Our discussions highlight how this film challenges stereotypes and tackles issues of masculinity and femininity with a comedic twist. We share our thoughts on the character's journey from self-absorbed jerk to a more enlightened being, offering our listeners a chance to reflect on how far we've come—and how some things are still oddly relatable today. With plenty of quips about the absurdity of the plot and character motivations, we keep the conversation fun and engaging, ensuring that you’ll want to dig into your own Thanksgiving memories or perhaps even rewatch the film yourself!

To wrap up, we take a nostalgic turn and reflect on the cultural context of the early '90s, discussing how movies like “Switch” fit into the larger conversation about gender and relationships. We dive into the playful dynamics of our own friendship, sharing laughs over the hilariously outdated stereotypes and what they say about our society today. Whether it’s about the turkey drama at family dinners or the ridiculousness of 90s cinema, we guarantee you’ll find yourself laughing along with us and perhaps reflecting on your own experiences as we navigate this wild ride together! So grab a seat at the dinner table, pour yourself a drink, and let’s get this holiday party started!

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we dive into the quirky movie 'Switch', exploring its themes of gender identity and redemption, all while laughing at the ridiculous situations our characters find themselves in.
• We discuss how 'Switch', despite being a comedy from the early 90s, touches on serious topics like sexism and toxic masculinity, showing how far we've come in understanding gender roles.
• The film features a gender swap, leading to hilarious yet insightful moments where the lead character learns what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes, or, you know, high heels!
• We also touch on the nostalgia of 90s cinema and how it influenced our perspectives on relationships and identity, making us think about the changes in comedy and storytelling over the years.
• The characters in 'Switch' are exaggerated but serve as a reflection of societal norms back then, prompting us to consider how modern adaptations might tackle these themes differently today.
• Finally, we wrap up with some fun recommendations that resonate with the themes of 'Switch', including other films that challenge gender norms and explore identity in humorous ways.

Oh, hello there.

Hey.

Who thought we would be this far into the fall and this close to the big day?

Oh, Jesus.

Oh, Hector.

Yeah, I don't want to know what he's gonna do to those poor turkeys down there or if we're gonna have to eat them.

Well, it's your worst.

God, it's your worst fear to come to life.

Didn't you just say you were afraid that she was going to get her own bird this year?

She thinks.

She thinks she is a bird.

I swear, I've had.

I've had three customers now who have not rewound.

They are not kind.

They did not rewind.

Well, they don't get a punch on their card.

Yeah, they don't.

They.

If they rent 10, we're not giving them that 11th for free.

That's not happening.

They're getting a different kind of punch.

Okay, Cooter Jack up here to give him a punch, if you know what I mean.

Oh, well.

So, yeah, we're just around the corner from the big day.

And did you decide what you're bringing?

Because, I mean, we know that she's providing the.

The main course there, but she did ask for us to bring something.

I'm gonna bring hubby's favorite.

He's got this jello salad that he likes to make.

Oh, my God.

But it's not one weird, like Victorian era things with like tuna, hot dog, whatever.

Oh, my God.

No, but it is an acquired taste because it has circus peanuts in it.

Wait, okay, like.

Okay, you're talking about the candy or like actual circus peanuts?

The marshmallow peanuts that are orange and they actually smell a little bit like nail polish.

If you're kind of person like I.

Am, I can't even find those out here now.

We used to have a store.

We have used to have a store that sold them, but we can't find them now.

But I like those.

I mean, I'm the weirdo that knows the history because, like, apparently there are only so many companies, candy companies that make certain classic candies.

Right.

A few years back, the one that made the candy that everybody claims to have hated, the Necco wafers.

Oh, my mom loves those.

I know where those are.

I get them all the time.

The company that originally made them went out of business and it took a couple of years before the rights to the different candies were scattered to the winds and the new companies that own them started to make them.

But, yeah, I can understand not being able to find the old favorites because you have.

You have to wait for the wind to settle and to land some.

Right.

Well, Necco wafers.

It was kind of like the hostess, only the Necco wafers, when they came back, they were still Necco wafers, whereas when the hostess came back, they were not.

Right.

Yeah.

And they changed their recipes, which mean.

I miss Susie Q's.

Do you remember Susie Q's?

I don't remember Susie Q.

No way.

Okay.

But they were just, like, two pieces of cake with, like, this gargantuan amount of cream in the middle.

Like in the Hostess Cupcakes cream.

Right.

Yeah.

And it was just like, this huge amount of cream in the middle.

And when they were fresh.

Oh, my God, they were so good.

So bad for you, but so good.

I just know that nowadays, Little Debbie gives me heartburn.

Oh, I love Little Debbie.

Hubby pointed out to me that if you look at the.

This.

This is where the rich folk who go on these fad diets and, like, build muscle, tell you all the.

The tricks where you read your labels and figure out the ingredients and.

Well, Little Debbie tends to have a baking soda with aluminum zirconium in it.

I think that that's what gives me heartburn.

But also just in general, certain flavors, fruit flavors, give me heartburn if they're, like, made very poorly.

Like, lemon is one of those flavors that's really hard to get.

Tastes good.

So a lot of those lunchbox pies.

Yeah, I'll leave them because they give me heartburn, but.

Hey.

Oh, God.

Oh, no.

There's another tape.

All right.

All right, you do it.

I'm not gonna touch it.

This one's dusty.

All right, so it's kind of like cleaning off some of your relatives as you're getting ready to gather around the dinner table for this time of year and be thankful.

I mean, maybe you aren't, but you.

You gotta figure out something to be thankful for, because you're eventually gonna be asked when the rounds come at the table what you're thankful for this year.

And maybe you're just than.

I don't know.

Aunt Gloria wore pants this year.

Yeah.

It'll be really fun when I'm telling.

Telling my mom.

Yeah.

What do you think?

Before.

This year.

Yeah.

She's gonna think I'm a fruit loop.

Right.

Well, okay, let's see what we got.

Good evening, time travelers.

You've landed.

That same year, the Soviet Union dissolved, officially breaking apart into 15 independent republics and bringing the Cold War era to a close.

Meanwhile, South Africa continued its push to end apartheid, with sanctions easing and reforms accelerating toward a new political future.

Brien.

The year also brought significant losses, including the death of rock icon Freddie Mercury and the passing of jazz legend Miles Davis.

Who's Dylan o'?

Brien?

I don't think I know.

Hey, get back here with that turkey.

Your mom is going to have a fit if we don't have the bird ready for dinner.

Oh, that's horrible.

You know, I heard that if it's raining, that turkeys will just look up with their mouths open and drown.

So, I mean, if only some.

I don't think that's true, but maybe.

We should test that theory out with some people in public office.

Well, they're definitely turkeys.

All right.

Oh, all right.

Well, I smell that Aquanet, so it must be time.

Rewind through time into movie night.

From many spills to silver screen dreams.

Trapped in the past by a time machine.

Each times the door for DJ&M to explore the lore.

The past is present, and you're going to want more.

Oh, goodness.

Oh, you know, less.

Nestman eventually learned they.

They don't fly.

Oh, look, it's in the cooking section.

Probably looking for some gravy.

It probably recognizes some of its family.

Oh.

That's only a year from the last film we discussed.

In fact, I barely noticed that anything changed outside there.

So it's just a subtle difference in the climate.

But, you know, there.

There are some things that people do when they feel like they're gonna maybe leave the house and pretend to be human.

Take a look there in the.

The paper and let us know what the, you know, the outgoing social people are doing.

Wow, it's a thick paper.

It must be a Sunday.

I want the funny section.

Yeah, we all want the funny section.

Oh, look, peanuts.

Oh, okay.

So apparently what's playing is Judgment Day, the.

The Terminator 2 movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Linda Hamilton.

Gosh, how many have there been now?

There were at least four or five, I think.

Ah, well, yeah, they should have stopped it, too.

Maybe we can make him make it.

Make that happen while we're here.

Then we have Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves with Kevin Costner when he was actually hot.

And, oh, Beauty and the Beast with Paige O'.

Hara and Robbie Benson.

Robbie Benson.

And then we have a hook with Robin Williams.

He's still alive.

Oh, I love that movie.

It had Julia Roberts as Tinkerbell, you know, and.

Yeah, I didn't need to remember that part was.

Wasn't it Dame Maggie Smith?

That was in that movie as Wendy?

I do not remember.

You know what?

I. I blocked everything about that movie because I. I am not a big Peter Pan.

I don't like Peter Pan and I don't like Alice in Wonderland.

And I know.

I get.

I just know that Bob Hoskins was Captain Hook in the Robin Williams movie.

That's true.

But I, you know, I. I would say that, though, that that was probably one of the best of those that I've seen.

But.

Yeah.

And what was.

What's our last option for date night there, Matt?

Well, well, we can go with Cooter Jack to see Silence of the Lambs.

I'm sure he would love that.

We have with the Jody Foster and Anthony Hopkins.

I don't know.

I think Cooter Jack.

Well, if he had actually graduated from school, he might know enough to sue for the movie rights because that's a little true to home for him.

But that's true.

And my mom actually really liked that movie, but I think she told me not to watch it because it would affect me too much.

But I'm actually a huge Jody Foster fan.

I have not.

I have not seen it.

So I'm curious to know what her performance was like.

I know that they eventually made a sequel and somebody else was in that.

Yeah, you know, she got.

Huh.

It's.

You should.

You should watch it.

She did.

She was phenomenal in it.

I mean, there's a reason why it's still noted as one of her best films.

She's just incredible.

But of course, everybody knows about the, you know, very horrifying scene with the character in the.

The kitchen and somebody's head doesn't have the top on it anymore.

Yeah, I think I blocked that out too, thankfully.

I mean, that's kind of bringing up memories of Thanksgiving.

You.

You.

You don't know what's for dinner, and you just hope that they're going to serve something to wash it down with.

The next Chianti.

Yeah.

Yes.

Got to make the bunny noises when you say that.

You know, it's flashing.

It's flashing.

Oh, and.

And that's not Aunt Gloria, by the way.

Oh, no.

Thankfully, we're gonna let the mystery man in the VCR let us know what we're going to Actually, see, just a little heads up there, if you haven't figured this out.

We don't have a huge budget for going out to the movies here, so don't think we're going to discuss one of those box office smashes.

It's usually whatever we find in the returns because, you know, it wasn't in high demand.

But here we go.

The film you're watching today is Switch, in which Perry King plays a sexist womanizer who is killed by three of his angry former lovers in heaven.

He makes a bargain with God for redemption and agrees to return to Earth.

Once there, he must find at least one woman who loves him.

If not, Steve's soul will become the property of the devil.

But the devil hedges his bet, and Steve is reincarnated as a woman played by Ellen Barkin.

Oh, my goodness.

That's interesting.

It's a kind of a gender swap story.

And, well, saying it as somebody who's watched the movie recently, I'll say that, you know, this is kind of a different take on the gender swap because it involves a sort of a reincarnation.

But, well, let's present the elements here, because every movie, of course, starts off as a screenplay, just like the days of theater and, you know, dressing up into the characters there.

So the story begins when Steve Brooks, a sexist, womanizing ad executive, is murdered.

Murdered, I tell you, by three ex girlfriends or mistresses.

And instead of reaching the afterlife, he sent back to earth to find a woman who truly loves him.

But the devil, because, you know, the devil made you do it.

The devil, who also wants his soul, hedges his bet by having him brought back.

How did he.

Did he owe some debts?

No.

Now he's a woman.

He's inside the body of a woman.

And not in a sexy way.

That is his body now.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, go ahead.

I know.

Well, I don't know a lot of people that resembled the leading character in this before he became a woman.

But, you know, it's.

It's a delicious element here because you.

You get that teaser of what's going to happen in this movie, and you're like, oh, he's gonna get his just desserts.

Yeah.

But he kind of doesn't in a way.

I mean, this.

This was a weird movie because, you know, when he.

And he gave that.

Okay, like you said, you don't know anyone that.

That acted that way.

And the thing is, is that I swear, it was like he was an alcoholic or something.

Like he just went tripping through life manic, like manically, and basically from one woman to another.

He was a horrible womanizer.

All the women hate him.

Even the ones that weren't having sex with him, they hated him.

He treated women so badly.

Think that they made enough of a point of that.

However, I guess maybe they made a little bit of a point of that when three of them, three of his, and I don't think they were girlfriends, got together and decided to have a.

A hot tub party so that they could tie him up in the.

The thing with their bras and drown him against that.

Just, you know.

Yeah, it's like the old.

It's.

It's like the old saying, don't.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

Right.

Oh, and then didn't you love.

Okay, so there's three of them.

The one main one played by what?

Jobeth Williams.

Jobeth Williams, yes.

Right.

So.

And then there's the two side ones, which I think one was Talioni.

I think.

No, she was.

She was a secondary character later.

But there were three women, and it was almost as if each of the women had to be a stereotype, you know, because made his way around.

And not only that, but they all got together to have this little party.

And then at the end of.

Okay, said.

Then after that, after they killed him.

And of course, the one.

The one girl sitting there going, what did we do?

Oh, my God, I can't believe this happened.

And I'm like, girl, you were there holding him under the water.

What are you freaking out about now?

Get yourself together.

But as when he came back, as is Amanda, the two.

Those two, like, just went bye bye.

Like, you never really saw that.

You saw, like, them one other time, I think, and that's it.

I don't know, maybe they went to Reno or crossed the border and, you know, tried to assume an identity.

You know, little Thelma and Louise going on there.

But, you know, and this isn't even a spoiler, folks, because this happens first.

Like 15 minutes movie.

You've got to get things going.

Yeah.

And.

But I love the way that they did the Jobeth Williams thing.

But, yeah, it was.

It was.

It was crazy.

But I. I think while we were putting this together and I was researching the.

This, the.

The plot points in the script and how it all comes together, I don't think anybody's watched this movie except us, because it was all going on about, oh, he learned how to be a good person and how you know, women.

He can reconcile that women are wonderful and that he was a bad person for treating them with horrible.

I'm like, nah.

Did you see the movie?

They didn't even mention, like, how he got out of it.

They're just like, oh, and then he went to heaven again.

And I'm like, no, no, that's not how it worked.

Well, and I think that that's an important distinction to make because while this is in.

In stereotype fashion, gender.

A gender swapping story, in a way, it's also a modern take on the traditional hell or heaven argument.

Because the one thing that they do differently is before they decide where he's going to go, they tell him he's in purgatory.

He could go up or down.

And that's when they decide we're gonna give them a second chance.

So.

Right.

Oh, and then.

Did you notice that?

So they were trying to.

The, the.

When I was reading about this, the, the people were saying stuff like how God was a tribunal, like a council.

And I'm like, no, God had both male and female voice.

They, you know, but that was still like their single entity.

It was not a council of, you know, so I don't know.

I think I'm glad we watched the movie because we might know what's going on.

But, you know, Steve's normal world is basically built on white straight male privilege, you know, and not to mention, apparently he had some time of kind of charm because to make all those women hate him, they had to like him.

And even though they hated him, they were still willing to go, you know, to bed with him.

Yeah.

And this is the 90s, so you're, you know, they were still supposed to not really do that.

But there was also so much toxic masculinity.

And I think that bringing him back as a woman played that really, really well.

How much toxic masculinity there was.

And this is 90.

It's not like now to.

Whereas if, if somebody was displaying this much now we would call him on it.

To.

Whereas back then we were just like, ah, he's just being a guy.

But he basically, you know, seduces and discards women like newspapers.

He gets away with it until, well, he doesn't, you know, so waking up as Amanda forces him to, you know, basically being a life where his old behaviors, you know, aren't working for him anymore and his.

He has no power, you know, it dissolves instantly, basically leaving him, you know, trying to figure out how to cope as a woman.

Yeah.

And to, you know, I mean, he's struggling to understand the world, you know, where he dominated.

He was a white straight male and, you know, everybody cowtowed to him and now they're just like, you know, whatever, chick, shut up.

Like.

And they actually had guys trying to hit her.

Huh.

And she, thankfully, she had a good writer.

She built up F out of them, you know, deservedly so.

I think that that was the, the thing that I enjoyed the most about this movie was that because she had been a man in a past life, it was okay for her to go through life not distinct, distinguishing her actions on gender because she doesn't know any better.

But.

Right.

I may be getting ahead of myself, but there's a moment in the story where there's an encounter in a bar and somebody is basically saying, oh, you know, you're a lesbian, obviously you're here with a woman.

And which one abuse the man?

And of course, huh.

Amanda defends her friend and punches him out and she's like, it's my turn tonight.

Right, but that's the thing.

It's like even they, even in the, the.

So there's this kind of lesbian type relationship undertone.

Well, when she's trying to get the account, huh?

Right.

So she's trying to get the account from someone, I don't know, using her.

Typical male tactics that she knew from her past life.

Right.

So.

And the account that she's trying to get is from a woman who is a lesbian.

But even in that for the 90s, I, I mean, it's progressive for the 90s that it absolutely kind of went there.

But for us looking back on it now, the fact that they put in like, so who's going to be the man tonight?

Who's going to lead?

Who's going to, you know, be the aggressor or the seducer?

That whole thing was like, you could tell that it was put in by people that did not understand what the hell, you know, but at the same time, I can understand why they did it because he isn't.

Well, he, as Amanda isn't a lesbian.

He's a guy that was, you know, so I can see more that it was okay at the time to have that towards now it would be a little bit more like, I don't know.

That's kind of creepy.

And it's, it's weird though, because we, we can look on this story, the, you know, the, the elements of the story from today and think to ourselves, you know, these were things that we weren't prepared for back then.

They were sort of Informed.

And it's more quote, unquote, normal for these kind of stories to be told today.

But this was a very informative exercise in sort of headspace because unless you're somebody who is acquainted with people who've had to make choices based upon gender, you don't think that way.

And it absolutely is that.

It's like it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.

This is how you react to a situation.

And the fact that your expectations are steered based upon what's between your legs is so totally screwed up in the head.

So this movie is very informative because I think it's for anybody who hasn't seen it.

And that's of course our goal by discussing it is to encourage you to watch it.

It's going to make you think outside the box because.

Right.

All of these things happen to somebody who's not prepared and it's like it's going to be different.

I mean, honestly, he was such a womanizer too.

I would be, I was surprised that there wasn't like when he first.

Because he did start go back into his apartment, like looking down his shirt at his, you know, now boobs, cleavage.

Yeah, we'll go with that.

And, and being like, oh, wow, that's kind of interesting.

But I was surprised he wouldn't like, you know, be going in and exploring himself all over.

Right.

You know, but they never really made that jump.

So I mean, it was, it was very telling of the, the character Steve, since that he was supposedly monumentally chauvinist and sexist, that the instant that he discovered that he was inhabiting a woman's body, there were blood curdling screams heard.

And he passed out.

So of course, you know, the, the, you know, the moral of the story is, you know, be careful how you climb that ladder.

You're going to meet people on the way down.

Right.

It's.

Why should he be horrified that he's a woman now?

But of course the answer is because now the score is settled.

He has treated women so badly.

Now the shoes on the other foot, he gets to learn what his contemporaries are doing in the world.

Yeah.

And it's like he's now the thing that he has mistreated and, and I think even, I mean abused, not physically necessarily, but, you know, emotionally and, and otherwise and, and disrespected.

I think he had a, probably some, if you want to get psycho, a psychoanalysis of it, probably not only disrespected but disliked women.

That's one of the reasons he probably treated them so badly.

But now that he is a woman, he's got to confront other male spirit, sexism toward him that he once expressed toward them, not only from all these random strangers, but his, his boss, his best friend, you know, because like, his best friend was like coming on to him hot and heavy, you know, from the beginning.

And it's like, oh, wow.

And.

And then like that one guy at work, the blonde guy.

Huh?

I'm like, oh, my God, that guy.

Like, he is every Chad there is, you know.

Right.

Well, there's something to be said for this time period in our history because, you know, this movie having came out in 91, we are at a point in American history where we are about to get our first president that was raised by a single mother.

So William Jefferson Clinton.

Bill Clinton had a very strong woman in his life.

His mother raised her on her own.

You know, his father passed away.

And so now, of course, we're entering into the 90s and somebody who has had to deal with people who have opinions about women's roles is coming into, you know, a place of decision making.

And of course, he doesn't probably believe all this stereotype about women's role in society because his house was.

His household was run by a woman growing up.

So.

Right.

Yeah.

You steer your decisions based upon what.

Hits home and for what.

Whatever things happened with Bubba, you know, he was still a good president.

So it's time to talk about the man behind.

Well, in this case it was a me, the.

The person behind the camera who was in charge of storytelling, the man who was the vision behind this film, the director and Matt, who made switch from 91 with.

With Alan Barkin, Jimmy Smith.

Jimmy Smith.

Well, let's see, that would be Blake Edwards.

So he was.

That was the height of, you know, sex.

The roles for men and women were quite different, except in World War II, but that's a different story.

But he was a very influential filmmaker.

Producer.

Screenwriter.

And he directed.

Okay, get this.

He directed Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Days of Wine and roses, which was 62, and of course the Pink Panther series with Peter Sellers.

Oh.

Which, you know, is so well known.

So mostly comedies.

He did tackle some darker material and, you know, embrace some silent film inspired, you know, visual comedy in a lot of his films.

And, well, his playful style and technique and savvy just made him a pioneer in mainstream commercial cinema, which is one of the reasons why, you know, so many of his movies were big hits, because he knew how to.

He knew how to throw them out there.

Now, Switch was not a big hit, but it was, you know, it did fine for its time.

I. I think more importantly, maybe by virtue of the fact that we're talking about it, switch was an important movie for its time, and we'll get into that a little bit more.

But besides Pink Panther that Blake Edwards did, another very important movie that explored gender roles that he did was in 95.

He did Victor Victoria.

Oh.

So, you know, one might say that that was the follow up to his gender swap with Switch that we're discussing here.

Yeah.

All right, so we know it takes a boatload of talent for everyone, anyone to put together something like a movie.

And I'm just going to tell you about our leading lady in switch from 91.

Yeah.

So Amanda, which.

Okay, I will say this.

It's not a very imaginative name.

Now, I am not as fortunate as some where I don't have a lot of acquaintances or friends from all walks of life, but a time or two that I was privileged enough to know somebody that let me into their confidence that they were transgender.

Amanda is sort of a stereotypical name for.

Well, yeah, and, and, yeah, I mean.

They could have just as easily named her Kelly, but.

Well, I mean, at least they didn't name her like, Amanda Huggin Kiss or something.

Right.

This is the old.

The old joke.

But yeah, so Ellen Barkin, which I hope that that was her.

Her, you know, legal name.

I don't know that I would have chosen that, but she's an acclaimed American actress recognized for her distinctive voice, fierce screen presence, and portrayals of tough yet deeply vulnerable characters.

And if I'm not mistaken, Matt, that makes her a Taurus.

Yes.

Well, yeah, I was gonna say it's a cusp.

Taurus and Aries.

Ah.

So she was born in the Bronx.

So, you know, she can handle her own, because she's probably seen the other side of the fence there.

She studied acting at the High School of Performing Arts.

And don't, you know, folks, that's the place that they based the.

The 80s TV show fame.

And she later majored in history and drama at Hunter College.

Not sure where that is, but probably in New York.

But after training at the Actors Studio, which, you know that.

That had a TV show for a short breath of time.

Yeah, I. I believe the man who ran that has since passed on a few years back now.

But a lot of important folks on the silver screen there spent time at the Actors Studio because that's where you get feedback about your career.

You get told how to perfect your craft.

Barkin rose to prominence in films such as the Big Easy, which we'll get to in a little bit here, but that's on my list to watch because it has Dennis Quaid in it.

You know, the less crazy of the Quaid brothers.

Oh, boy.

She was also in Sea of Love and of course, Switch that we're discussing right now, and she earned a Golden Globe nomination.

Now, Island, Barkin won an Emmy for Before Women Had Wings.

With a title like that, you just curious to know what it's all about there.

And she got a Tony Award for her Broadway debut in the Normal Heart.

And, you know, those of you who are listening to us because you're of the LGBTQ persuasion, you should know that the Normal Heart is a very important story.

It's about the AIDS crisis and the.

The people in medical professions who stepped up.

They decided that they were going to be human beings and treat people as human beings rather than being afraid of something we didn't really even know how was transmitted at the time.

So unlike the Reagan.

Anyway, moving on.

Yeah, we treated them eventually.

So the Normal Heart, Ellen Barkin got her Tony Award for that, and she later captivated audience as Smurf Cody in Animal Kingdom.

I'm not entirely sure if that's animated or live action.

Yeah, no idea when name like Smurf, though, Right?

But, I mean, I'm sure there are all sorts of.

Forgive me, this is my age, as I'm showing.

It's kind of like wearing creative socks.

My.

Oops.

My age is showing.

I. I got to admit, I think there's probably a millennial out there that was named Smurf, and they have no idea why.

Oh, dear.

Yeah, I mean, it's not cute.

Like, you know, when our parents or parents and grandparents named their kids, you know, hippie names like Sunflower or Moonbee.

It'S like, hey, you know, that's better than Smurf, though.

I mean, they really blew it on that one.

Get it?

I. I bet you Someone out there has a child that everyone hates, and it's named Azrael.

Oh, Azrael is like the name of a.

Like an old.

Oh, gosh, I forget whether it's a deity or a.

It sounds like mythology.

Yeah, it's either that or a familiar.

Oh, yeah.

And.

And you folks should know about familiars because we talked about that with Elvira not too long ago.

The.

Yeah, the.

The creatures that are people's companions that, you know, those who are long lived and have maybe made a.

A pact with the devil.

They.

They've followed them throughout the years because they can change form.

But, yeah, familiars.

So speaking of familiar, top films Videlle and Barkin was in, and she's kept the lights on.

She's been in 50 films.

You know, when somebody's not playing the lead, they're always playing a supporting character that probably sticks out.

Well, as you know, she was in Diner in 82 and 86, down by law in 87, the Big Easy.

Which, you know, despite what you might think, because, you know, in the 80s we were quite chauvinist.

It's not what you think.

That's not called the Big Easy because it's about a woman who is.

The Big Easy is the nickname for New Orleans.

Okay, so.

Got it.

Okay.

Okay, so let's compare our, our Ellen cards here.

It's.

It's not quite like playing chess and having the king and the queen.

I mean, you know, we're not.

We're not comparing movies with Maggie Smith here, so there's not gonna be a lot of them.

I've seen all four, apparently, with Ellen Barkin in it.

And of course, the, the latest edition is Switch, but doing part two.

Some of my ex's tastes in entertainment.

I'm familiar with the movie Eddie and the Cruisers because apparently the, the characters in that originate from, like, Cape Cod maybe and New England, where my ex was from.

But Ellen Barkin was Eddie and the Cruisers and of course, Switch, and then another movie that I've seen with her in it, and I didn't realize was her was this boy's life, which started young Leo Naro DiCaprio.

And although it's a good movie, it's a hard watch because Robert De Niro is in it and he plays a.

A rather lousy father who treats his family poorly, let's just say.

But of the movies that I know of that she's in, I have added the Big Easy to my list because especially in his younger years, Dennis Quaid was quite easy on the Eyes.

Oh, yes.

I loved Inner Space, so I really want to see the Big Easy.

And I'm actually kind of disappointed to learn that I. Pat, I missed the opportunity here.

Way back in 07, when I was starting a new chapter of my life, they made a sequel to the Oceans movies, you know, about robbing the casino blind.

And this one was a primarily female cast.

It was called Ocean's Thirteen, and Ms. Ellen Barkin was in that.

And I am just, you know, anxious to actually watch that because I know there are a lot of brilliant leading women in that movie because it's.

Yes, you know, all female.

Well, primarily female cast doing a heist.

But knowing that Ellen Barkin is in it makes me want to see it more now, so.

All right.

It's really good.

You'll like.

I.

You'll like it.

And how about you, Mr. Matt?

How many Ellen cards you got?

Well, I have seen five, but now that you're talking about Ocean 13, I think it might be six, because.

Oh, I didn't have that on my list, but it's really good.

You forgot.

Yeah.

And then my faves, of course, are Switch and then Ocean's eleven and Oceans.

Ocean's twelve.

And so maybe swap one of those out with Ocean's thirteen, because, like I said, that was the female one.

It was so good.

It really was.

And especially having.

Oh, gosh, was it Sandra Bullock, who is the lead in that?

She's.

She's brilliant in anything, in my view.

So, yeah.

So we are at the middle of the story, the meat and the sandwich here, and that's act two.

Matt, tell us a bit about the conflict and rising action of Switch.

Well, of course, you know, Amanda's facing all sorts of obstacles adjusting to life as a woman, including workplace sexism, harassment, and the loss of the power that she had of Steve.

And it shows, not to mention that she's constantly being mistaken as a lesbian just because she.

She acts the same way that all the men around her do, but they just can't handle that.

But she's.

She's wrestling, you know, with Steve's male ego from her past life while basically being in a woman's body.

And she never had respect for.

Well, she.

He never had respect for, you know, any of the women.

And so at this point, she's basically, well, okay, so finally, Steve's body is found.

Now, can we just mention that through this, nobody, like, there's just, like, zero respect for the fact that these three women actually killed him and dumped his body in the river.

And it's like, not even a second thought about it, like in the movie at all, until they finally find the body.

The.

The only real sort of reality checks.

And it's kind of like how I often say that life is.

Is this the saying that's done in the movie, Jeffrey?

Life is the.

Is the party where you go through life and you and your friends take turns tapping the balloon up into the air to keep making sure that it doesn't pop.

So the only reality checks that really took place during this movie to keep you in touch with the idea that there's been a crime committed here and there should be people being questioned is the fact that when Amanda is coming and going from the building, the reception people there, the night manager, whatever you want to call them, because this is a New York City apartment.

There are people who are on wait lists to live in some of these buildings that are really nice.

She is told that she's not allowed to be there because she's not on some sort of a special list.

And so she tells them, you know, that she's Steve's half sister.

Sister.

Right.

And they just discovered each other a few days ago.

But then, of course, she gets the main murderous, Jobeth Williams, to help her become, you know, basically understand how the hell to become a woman, you know, and.

And live.

And the.

The hurt in high heels always was just funny falling all over the place.

But, okay, so when.

So when Jo Beth Williams took her to the place to get clothes, like, really nice clothes, and she and Steve, Amanda, made her pay for it, and she's like, that will be $46,000.

And I was like, because, like, today's money, that would be like, that will be $500,000.

Like, you know.

Well, and to your point, though, it's.

It's.

It's one of those character moments in the film that, you know, make this worth watching because Amanda, the, you know, the woman inhabited by the male pig.

Yeah.

Is the only one that knows that a crime has been committed.

And so she's making good use of that and holding it over the head of the conspirators.

And she says, she never lets me pay for anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

And not only that, but I.

She.

Okay, so after they drown him, and then he comes back to.

He's basically like, ha, you didn't really drown me.

I'm still alive.

They shoot him.

She shoots him three times, right?

And then they have to get rid of the body, so they dump it in the river, and the whole time, and then she still has the gun.

Right.

Why the hell did you keep that?

That's what you wipe your fingerprints off.

You hope that it's not, you know, apparently it wasn't traceable anyway and throw it in the frickin river so there's no evidence.

What is the matter with you anyway?

But she.

Go ahead.

This is going to be my reverse chauvinism here because if anybody was in tune with what is, you know, interesting and popular among women, they would know that anybody who considers committing a crime has already gone through the thought processes of how this was going to be done, how to create an alibi.

And as we all know, women love true crime.

So why would she have let herself or set herself up for failure?

To your point, you get rid of.

The murder weapon, Right, Exactly.

And kept it.

And not only that, but when they finally found Steve's body, she goes trekking over there to Steve's old apartment and puts it in the couch to frame Amanda.

And I'm like, what?

And so part of me was like, oh, that is really messed up.

But so we're at about the halfway mark in our show and we're going to take a brief break to, you know, have some nostalgia, some ads, some jingles from days gone by.

Probably some, you know, chauvinist commercials for booze.

Actually.

Yeah, maybe they were doing booze commercials still back then because, you know, there is always a naked woman on the bottle supposedly.

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Okay, well, we're back.

So at the same time.

So right before that, though, before that happened.

So there was a little drunken night that happened and Amanda and Walter end up sleeping in the same bed and of course she's taking his pants off before he gets in bed.

And I'm like, why on earth would you do that?

Just put him in the damn bed.

Why are you.

Why does he have to have his pants off?

I mean, that.

That's a.

That's a.

That's a gender thing, too, though.

Like, if you're out drinking with your buddy, of course you're comfortable with your own bodies.

I mean, if you're straight, you know, you're gonna hold your friend's head when they're barfing over the toilet.

So if still in the head space of being a man, there's gonna be no shame in seeing him with his pants off.

So she's just thinking, if I'm being tucked into bed, I don't want to be wearing my pants, you know?

Right.

I. I guess so.

But it just.

Anyway, spoiler alert.

Because this is.

This is something that makes the movie worth watching.

Yeah.

So I. I think that the day I. I think that they cut something there, I think there was supposed to be a little scene where the devil, like, shows up and, you know, does a little magic or something.

He puts them together.

Yeah.

So anyway, but.

Because, like, when they were going to bed, she's like, walter, get your hand off my ass.

And then.

And she.

He's like, are you sure?

Yes, Walter, I'm sure.

But the next morning, they wake up and there's no underwear.

And then.

Well.

But.

But what happens as a result of there being no underwear, Matt?

Oh, and Jimmy Smith gets out of that bed.

Well, let me tell you, when I watched this back in the day, I.

Free.

I. I paused that and took a long, hard look at it.

Because, you know, folks, one of the things that Mr. Jimmy Smits has done in his body, if you will excuse the phrasing here, body of work, was he was on a little thing called NYPD Blue, which tried to settle the score back in the day.

Because, of course, we can show off every part of the woman's body.

Not think twice about it, but we can't show you everything on a man's body because there's still shame with that.

And, well, NYPD Blue started turning the tables on that.

We got to see a little bit more of the men in the.

The prime time there.

Or not prime time, but so that.

Yeah, they.

They, they, they.

They did the deed there.

There was some.

There was some Smith.

Smith's butt there.

That was quite nice.

But.

Yes.

So they basically alluded to them doing the rumpy pumpy, and basically Amanda ends up pregnant and arrested after she knocked him out.

Right.

Walter Walter.

It's called Date.

Right, Walter?

And I'm like, wow, they're really taking it to the extreme there.

He enjoyed it.

She.

She even said I was a virgin.

And then she knocks him out.

Right.

It was.

It was a classic moment.

And it, it fits right into the film.

It's really not very dramatic, which, I mean, good.

It was until that moment, I didn't know that Jimmy Smits had been in Moonlighting.

But it, It.

It's really good.

Oh, I've got an alert here.

Segment sec.

Okay, well, that's the only one that actually worked, so maybe I'll have it figured out next time.

Okay, so Cooter needs to knock it off with that music.

It's just right.

Ridiculous.

But, hey, let me tell you about Jimmy Smits.

Yeah, go ahead and tell us about Mr. Moonlighting there.

Okay, well, that, that boy, he is.

Was an actor who has a very commanding presence.

Presence.

And some say that he even has an emotional depth for his roles in television and film.

July 9, which I think makes him a cancer.

And then, let's see, Brooklyn, New York.

And he rose to prominence as Victor Cifuentes on LA Law.

Earnings, a lot of recognition, including an Emmy award.

He continued on, of course, in NYPD Blue, as you were mentioning, also the West Wing and Sons of Anarchy.

I mean, top shows this guy has been in.

And he's very versatile with, you know, dramatic and political and humor and just a lot of good stuff.

And then, of course, he was in Switch as Walter and he basically reached a lot of audiences through another film.

You probably haven't heard of this one.

It's called Star wars, where.

And he was in the prequel trilogy where he played Bail Organa.

And.

Yeah, and then he's also stepped in.

Actually, I believe he stepped into play Leia's father in the series.

That's the Organa, because.

Yeah, Leia's family name was Organa.

She was adopted by them.

Oh, that's right.

Okay.

Duh.

I should have known that.

You lose nerd points.

I know, right?

Yes.

But anyway, so he.

He was part of the Star wars the world there.

And of course he remains very respected and influential figure in modern entertainment.

And he's also been really good in representing the Latinx community as well.

So anyway, his top films, which are.

He's done 26 films and tons of television.

But he has been.

So how many of these films did you see?

Not a ton, surprisingly.

Now, as far as, like, screen time, I think he probably had more time in, like, the West Wing, where he was a recurring character in the last season.

Basically, his character was running for the party nomination to be president after Martin Sheen or Martin Sheen's character was ending his second term as president.

But I, of course, I'm not a huge Star wars fan, but because I am married to my husband, my association, I have to watch them.

I don't just, I don't, I don't dislike them.

It's just Star wars is a different universe than Trek, obviously.

One is about an evil empire and one is about the positive potential for humanity.

But I don't know if you saw Discovery, there was an evil empire, so.

There'S an evil empire anytime we let other men speak.

But I've seen all three of the movies that Jimmy was in or all three of the Star wars movies that he was in.

And now Switch.

So I have a total of four.

Four.

So I'm pro, I'm about even with my Ellen cards with that.

Okay.

Well, I think I've seen five.

And of course, the, the Star wars movies and Switch.

And I've seen me familia, and I, I, I do want to see in the Heights, but I've just been putting it off because I know that I'll be really into it when I see it.

And sometimes you're just not in the mood to, like, just be, you know, overwhelmed by a good movie.

So anyway, so that is Mr. Jimmy Smith's who.

Yay.

Oh, I, I too, I am a Star wars fan, but I don't know.

You can, you can.

True.

You know, give me Trek and I'll probably know the trivia.

I am really into the Trek world, but with Star Wars, I really like it.

But don't quiz me, you know?

Yeah.

If it's not in the movies or the TV show, I don't know.

So we are about even with our cards here.

So.

All right, coming to the, the precipice here.

The top of the roller coaster.

The climax, the resolution.

So, you know, the, this, the chauvinist pig has been brought back to Earth after his untimely passing, and he's had to go through life as a woman trying to figure out if there's anybody on this earth who actually could stand him as a man.

Steve.

And, well, we get the answer to that when we get to the resolution.

Spoiler for a movie that's, you know, almost 30 years old here, well, it's at least 25.

But Amanda finally confronts her fate in the afterlife.

Despite her growth, she fails to meet the requirement of finding a woman who truly loves her.

But the love of a female does come from the daughter that she gives birth to.

Amanda's arc carries her from selfish womanizer to a flawed but awakened soul.

Through motherhood, her transformation explores themes of gender identity and redemption that stay with the viewers.

Switch blends broad comedy with surprising emotional weight, suggesting that personal growth often requires discomfort.

And sometimes the only way to evolve is by experiencing life from the other side.

And to the point where in the afterlife, when she is greeted by the two sides of the Almighty, given a choice of, are you going to be a woman or a man angel?

And of course, it's very apropos because having experienced both sides, she can't decide.

So she just negotiates to have some time to think about it.

All right.

Because, you know, in heaven you gotta be a gender.

Right?

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, like, you know, the other year we talked about robots on that, you know, one season Ruth Buzzy show, and robots had to have gender too, you know.

Right, Exactly.

Oh, so.

All right, that brings us to the end of the story.

Now, I, for one, though, think, and this will feed into our discussion as we, you know, round the bend here, but I think that if you were to consider the words of the Almighty in the literal sense, if she is supposed to find a woman who could stand her, who liked her, I think that she should have seen her daughter into puberty because her daughter is a child.

She's not a woman yet.

Right.

But then, then we end up getting into Stella and, you know, nobody wants to revisit that.

I, I think I, I, I was wondering about the language, whether they were saying a woman or a female.

Huh.

So I don't remember and I didn't go back and look.

So they probably said a woman because they wouldn't say female.

Yeah, that was my thought too, but I kept reading where some of them were saying female, but nothing that I read online, you know, when I was pulling stuff in for together for us, we're talking about how she got saved or the baby or that she got pregnant at all.

It was all about, oh, it was all about, you know, because she became a woman, then she had to learn, you know, the other side of things and then become a better person.

Because she became a woman.

And I'm like, no, it was because she had the baby.

That's what made her, you know, be a good person.

That's what they call coming full circle.

She now understands the perspective.

Right.

So anyway, and, and the way she was just.

And I love the way though, that, like when she got sick and they're like, you know, if you have this baby, you could, you could die.

And she's like, I don't care.

I'm having this baby.

And for that character, because the character was like, you know, well, I was going to have an abortion, but, you know, I just, I just think that maybe this is why I was here.

Well, you know, Amanda would have said, I'm going to have this baby.

Be a man about it.

Right, exactly.

But, you know, I just, just, I, I loved how the character developed, but there are so many things that were so jarringly wrong about it.

But we're looking at it from the perspective of now to.

Whereas back then, I loved this film, had lesbianism, it had gender swap, it had a woman who, you know, yes, was a man, but was still like, smacking other men and not taking, you know, men's guff.

And it was like, it was, it was a real, it was, you know, one of those movies that you put on your, your LGBT list, basically, you know, to.

Whereas now I'm sure that, you know, somebody would see it and be like, oh, that's so horrible.

It's, it's what I like to call telling, you know, yeah, it's informed.

It is leaning towards open mindedness.

And we only get to where we are by accomplishing a journey.

So this is the journey.

And I found one of the best moments in the film was when she was on a date with the powerful lesbian that runs the cosmetics company.

They're in the bar and she's trying to be truthful with her.

Amanda is.

And say that she used to be a man.

Now, from an outsider's perspective, somebody just listening in that conversation would assume that Amanda had gone through gender reassignment surgery.

So.

Right.

That takes a hold of different tone, but it's an important conversation now because now this woman who's an entrepreneur is thinking whether or not her friend is actually telling her she's had gender surgery.

Right.

But of course, she's being intellectual.

She's like, you know, I've, I've lived life as a man kind of thing, but still it's there.

You pay attention to the scene and you realize there are different layers to this conversation.

So, you know, it.

It's.

It's not your typical sitcom humor.

She's making her think, why does she act this way?

And of course, that takes place right before she sort of, you know, protects her honor when the drunk guy is making a pass at him and.

And she tells her, she said no.

And it's like, oh, you know, one of you's got to be the man.

Oh, it's my turn tonight.

Wham.

Right?

But yeah, that was interesting when she was like, sitting there going, yeah, I used to be a man.

And the.

The other character saw like, yeah, okay, you know, and I'm just like, wait a minute.

Wouldn't you kind of question that?

You know, like, if.

If the main character or the legend lesbian, you know, boss character was like, bisexual, right.

Per se, then I could see them being like, eh, whatever.

But being a lesbian and, and you're with somebody who says, well, I used to be a man.

Does that make you kind of like, stop for a minute, go, what?

That also plays into the, you know, the, the stereotype that all lesbians are very butch, you know, and they could change a tire and they all own pickup trucks and that sort of thing.

So, of course a powerful lesbian is going to believe that she had been a man because she got treated like a man would dump a woman, you know?

Right.

I only did this because I wanted your money.

Well, and the thing that, you know, the thing that sucked too, that I think kind of changed part of the film and is that the seduction scene between, you know, Ellen and.

And Lorraine, who's the actress who played that part, was actually excised after poor reactions in the test screenings.

Oh, really?

So after.

Text screen after the.

The screenings basically were like, oh, we don't like that seduction part between them.

Then they took it out.

So we don't know whether, you know, it.

It was more seductive and, you know, started to go somewhere or whether it didn't.

And because Ellen or the Amanda's character, she walks out, they're about to have sex, and she leaves.

And I'm like, that isn't.

That's not a Steve character, you know, but.

And then they tried to pass it off as like, oh, well, you're a woman now, so, you know, your feelings are going to be different or whatever.

I'm like, it's still Steve.

Come on.

He's punching people out.

You know, he's getting drunk like crazy.

Like, if it were now, I think they might have followed through more because wouldn't that be something that, you know, Steve would Be like wanting to explore.

Right.

Well, because we don't have.

We don't necessarily have to put labels on it.

Right.

But now it's lesbian.

Yeah, but if.

If, if instead of him just walking out going, I'm too creeped out by this.

It would.

It.

I. I would have liked to have seen it be like, no, I can't do this because, look, I'm only trying.

I'm only doing this to get your account.

And now that I get to know you, I really like you and I don't want to hurt you, you know, and then you can see a kind of an arc and a development there, but it's not that at all.

It's just like, eh, I'm too creeped out by this.

I'm leaving by.

Especially if he's inhabiting a woman's body, he's going to have a woman's responses.

And of course, the.

The number one trope is that, you know, women are emotional, so if they're going to explore a stereotype, they should have her, you know, become attached because.

Right.

Got intimate.

Well, or.

Or even that they're emotional and she just couldn't go through with it because she didn't want to hurt her or whatever.

But they didn't do that.

Instead, they made it homophobic.

Yeah, she, the other character was even, you know, when she was talking to.

About Jo Beth Williams, I think was like, that's because you're homophobic.

And you didn't.

And I'm like, he was in a hot tub with three other women.

With three women who are getting it on.

I don't think he's homophobic.

I think it was just bad writing.

Yeah, it was bad writing.

But to your point, I.

That actually was when my ears perked up that Jobeth Williams actually even bothered to say the word homophobic because, you know, they didn't have those conversations then.

It's like, you know, we were just getting around stepping up to tell somebody that you're a creepy bastard and you treat women like crap.

So, yeah, that's.

That's how it ends.

She has gone full circle.

She understands what it's like to be a woman now.

She finally met someone who could stand her because she came from her own flesh.

Now, aside from the leading man and lady, we had a cast of supporting members there that were actually quite of note.

And so we'll just briefly mention those.

Jobeth Williams, who plays the woman who holds the party that does Steve in, is an actress that's played many supporting roles over the years.

But I remember her most because she was in a favorite film of mine from the 90s with Ed O', Neill, who, of course, most of you will know as the dad from Married With Children, but she played the mother in the movie Dutch.

So she was a very sweet lady who was being judged by her child because now she's not with her ex, her child's father.

So that's Jobeth Williams.

And she also.

Yeah.

Oh, as I say, Sheila was the.

The name of the woman who was in charge of the cosmetics company.

So.

Okay, tell.

Tell us about the woman who played Sheila.

Well, that was actually Lorraine Bracco.

And now you may not know this, but she actually played the therapist in HBO's the Sopranos.

You probably have not heard of that, but it was with a guy named James Gandolfini.

Now, it's not Gandalf from the.

You know, Thou shall not pass.

This was.

Was more like Thou shall not.

I'm gonna shoot you.

So, yeah, but just.

Brilliant actress.

Oh, yeah, that.

That was a very sort of a Freudian show because it was essentially organized crime.

He was a garbage man who actually had money.

And, you know, her character was the person on the inside because he confided in her.

And you know, what she did with that information, you only know if you watch the Sopranos.

But somebody else who was in Switch, that kind of surprised me because, you know, I try not to read the end.

The book before starting it.

Hey, Leone was in Switch, and she was a model.

It's sort of very telling because there comes a moment in the movie where Amanda is going about life, looking up Steve's old haunts, and he goes to this photography studio where models are being, you know, captured for their moments.

And TE Leone is playing a young woman, which.

This is probably the youngest I've seen her in any role.

It was actually her first role.

First role.

So she's.

She's the woman of the month.

Month.

Because, you know, gentlemen's magazines always has the COVID girl, and she was the COVID girl for this magazine.

And anyways, Te Leone has been in so many things since, most notably, I remember her in Deep Impact, which was one of those apocalypse movies in the late 90s there, about the end of the world there.

And she played a news reporter who knew about the end of the world before it was made public.

And so she got to figure out where she wanted to be when that last moment came.

But she was also in a CBS series sort of partly inspired by Hillary Clinton's life.

Madam Secretary.

Yes.

She played the Lead in that.

And also more recently now, I haven't seen this, but I've been.

Been very intrigued too.

She's had five episodes in the Steve Martin and Martin short series, Only Murders in the Building.

So.

Okay, yeah, I remember her having her own comedy show and I watched that for a while and liked her a lot in that.

So I bet you don't know that there actually was a Star Trek connection.

Oh, yeah, I know you're all like, oh, no, it never happened.

But no, actually, so actor Perry King, who was the one that got shot, so he actually auditioned for the role of Captain James T. Kirk in Star Trek.

Okay.

We could have had a different William Shatner may not have been ever born.

I mean, wait, no, that's not right.

I'm gonna have a totally.

Death becomes her moment now because I'm going to re watch the moment where Steve is done in like.

Like Helen did on Death becomes a rewinding the soap opera.

Okay.

You could.

You could almost see Captain Kirk meet his end.

Yeah.

So, yeah, Perry King, he was almost James T. Kirk.

Oh.

And of course, you know, we talked about Jimmy Smith's Being Lays, you know, foster father and all that, but there.

There was actually sort of a.

Okay, some people call it a stretch, but it's like the Kevin Bacon game, you know, how many degrees of separation.

Jimmy Smits, in the early days of his career, starred in the soap opera Ryan's Hope way back in three.

Now, for those of you who are big Trek fans, you'll know the connection here.

But the future of Star Trek is tied to somebody who starred in Ryan's Hope.

The leading lady, Kate Mulgrew, who became Captain Janeway.

She was on the set when Jimmy Smits walked through the door for a few episodes.

Wow.

And then they split off into different universes.

I mean, honestly, I would have preferred to have had Jimmy Smits as Chakotay.

You know what?

That actually would have been great, especially since the actor who's played Chakote has kind of been not very Trek.

Like, let's just leave it at that.

I've heard some people say the word poopy.

Yeah.

Apparently he was not an easy podcast person to get along with because he wanted to be the.

You know, but I. I'm not sure they could have afford both Kate and Jimmy on the, you know, on the same budget.

Well, I don't know if Jimmy, you know, lost his underwear.

Like, he didn't switch.

Maybe his character came from a population of people who were naturists.

So, you know, when he was off duty, that was his way of unwinding.

Yeah.

Chakotay was not one of my favorite characters.

Well, it wasn't the character that was the problem.

It was difficult at the time, too, because it was very controversial.

They decided, oh, we're going to include people who haven't been represented in Star Trek before, but we're going to do it through a stereotype.

Well, and, you know, that's the thing, too, is, yes, Chakotay was a stereotype, but at least they were trying, you know, whereas, I mean, look how Trek has always been.

What.

Who was it recently that said.

So I, I.

Now I'm forgetting it.

But there was.

Yeah.

Somebody said, trek has always been woke up.

Always.

You know.

Yeah.

I mean, you could not be a television show in the 60s and be relevant without discussing social topics.

Right.

I mean, they had the first interracial kiss on television.

That's just, you know, amazing.

So, yeah, anyway.

Hey, I have a question for you.

Yes, sir?

Did you see yourself in any of these characters?

Oi.

You know, looking back at my past relationship, I think I could have been the secretary.

You know, she had a fondness for the guy she worked for, but after he passed, she had no bones about the fact that he was a, you know, steaming bag of poo.

She said, I hated him.

I'm so glad he's gone.

He was a. Yeah, yeah.

She just.

She let it all out.

Yeah.

Actually, that I could see that I would be that character, too, because I put myself in a lot of those situations.

So if they remade the story today, what adaptations do you think they would have to make?

I think, for a start.

Oh, gosh.

They would really have to play that lesbian relationship differently, huh?

Yeah, they would really have to do that.

I think, for a twist.

Not that the word switch isn't, you know, a situation compromising enough, but I think in a twist, Walter may have had a crush on Steve.

See, that.

That would be more interesting, because that was another thing is that when I was reading all.

All the stuff for this, it kept saying that she fell in love with Walter.

And I'm like, no, she didn't.

What movie did you watch?

Because this was not it.

But yeah, that or, you know, maybe Walter was bisexual or something.

I don't know.

But there would have had to been something.

And that whole part, you know, afterward where she's all like, it was state rape.

I don't know if that would really fly so much today.

But, you know.

Right.

I actually don't think that they would have Even approached it the same way where.

Yeah, that.

That.

That's a hot button.

That's the electrified third rail.

You don't touch that conversation.

So.

Especially not in a comedy movie.

That.

Right.

I mean, it would end up being consensual.

And I'm sorry.

Even though it was not unbelievable that those two would end up a couple, I. I think that if this were done today, they would have had more chemistry.

Right.

Yeah.

Because they, you know, even people who are straight, who are good friends with each other aren't so, like, rigid with each other.

It's like, you know, you.

Like I said, you held your friend's head over the toilet when they had a hard night out.

You know, maybe you helped your friend move after a bad breakup.

These two people acted just like they were co workers and occasionally hung out, not like they'd known each other forever.

Right.

Yeah, but.

So if you could change the ending, what would you do differently?

I would have had Amanda live to see her daughter get married because that one.

Right.

Well, no, that would have been a whole other element there because now she would have seen, you know, whether or not the.

The man in her daughter's life deserved her because she would have lived as a man.

Yeah.

And maybe that's actually what would have started the movie.

Instead of her having to go through life before having a child.

Maybe the modern adaptation of it would be the switch happened when she became pregnant.

Like, you know, maybe she.

Maybe she got inhabited by the spirit of her dad or something.

Right.

Well, this kept saying.

Again, it kept saying that, like, as.

As this, you know, she became more.

Spent more time as a woman, that she became better, you know, like, treated women better and became more understanding and respectful, and she didn't.

The character never, never did that.

And I think that's something that.

If either ending, you know, it would have helped if we had seen more of a transition to where in the end, even though she was, you know, probably in that nine months that she was pregnant and, like, in jail or whatever.

Right.

You know, that would have been more, you know, you, You.

We didn't see enough of that transition to respect women.

He was always the same person, you know, and just had the kid and then the.

And loved the kid, and the kid loved her, even though she died while the kid was still a baby.

But, you know, the.

There was never this.

This realization or.

Or.

Or progression.

And I think, too, that, you know, as times move on, psychology evolves as well.

So I think that if this story were to be redone for modern times, I don't think that she would have had a courtroom appearance where they questioned her to the point where she was sane or not.

I think that a modern retelling of the story would have her having to go through counseling over gender identity issues.

Well, yeah, and then.

But then I think that, too, you know, they might have actually arrested what's her name, too.

Like, you know, Joe Beth Williams.

Yeah.

Because in these days, unless it's a television show on Netflix, you know, usually they try to get the right person to, you know, have to do the time or whatever.

But.

Yeah.

Oh, and since we're naming names, the.

The.

The woman that murdered Stephen was named Margot.

And.

And I remember that because it's a very sort of affluent name.

I imagine some lady who's, you know, at the golf course.

Margot.

Well, that.

That was in Good Neighbors or if you're in Britain, the Good Life.

Okay.

The.

The rich neighbor, but played by, you know, the.

The person that I love the most, Dame Penelope.

Penelope Keith.

Okay.

Yeah.

Her character's name was Margot.

And so the whole show is always like, Margo.

Oh, I know.

I know why I remember that name.

I hate the movie now, but I've seen Christmas Vacation to Infinitum.

And yes, what's her name?

That is in Veep.

It's off the air now, but yes, Julia Louise Dreyfus.

She was the neighbor.

Margot.

That's what.

Margot.

That's why I remember the name.

Okay.

And of course, as we call them now, the neighbors were yuppies.

And so Margo.

I don't know why.

Why is the carpet all wet, Todd?

I don't know.

Margot.

Yeah, okay, because when you.

We were saying the name, that's exactly how I heard it in my head.

And I was like, where is that from?

So now you nailed it.

Yeah.

But this movie, for being 91, was holding on to the 80s with the tooth and nail because they had Jim J. Bullock playing a spiritual medium here.

Okay.

I mean, that was that day's version of what's his name?

That was Uncle Arthur.

Oh, wait, Uncle Arthur.

Paul.

Paul Lind.

Yeah.

So, yeah, Jim J. Bullock was the comic relief.

He was in it vis a vis the.

The gay spiritual medium.

And, yeah, it was just the briefest scene.

I mean, it was no longer than a cat food commercial.

But, Yeah, it was easily the funniest moment in the whole movie.

The rest of the movie was just shock value, especially her knocking the guy out bar.

But anyways, yeah, so some of the little mini miscellaneous facts there is Jobeth Williams was up for a different part in this film.

But when she read the script, she said the only part she would consider was playing Mago, and she got that part instead.

And she did a great job with it, too.

Yeah.

And as you said about Teleoni, and that's how you pronounce it, it's not tea, like iced tea.

It's Tay T. Leone.

Yes.

It was her film debut.

Yeah.

And of course, Ms. Emma Walton, you could not forget her.

She played the fur protester, which was actually another really funny part.

Do you know how many guys I had to.

So, yes, this is actually.

Was Blake Edwards stepdaughter, and she was the daughter of Julie Andrews.

Oh.

So, yeah, that.

That's actually another telling thing here.

That's why Blake Edwards is a.

Is a rememberable name, memorable name, because Blake Edwards was once married to Julie Andrews.

Yeah.

Yes.

So pretty cool, Righty?

Well, let me find my bag of tricks here.

Let's see where is.

I've got here.

Okay.

All righty.

So this is the part of the show where we tell you about other things that you might enjoy, if you like films from the early 90s, gender swaps, possibly, who done thems like Switch.

So I'll go ahead and make a recommendation first here.