Legendary radio consultant Tracy Johnson joins hosts Dave Martin and Kipper McGee to share his insights on the critical need for radio to become more provocative and emotionally engaging.

Tracy emphasizes the necessity for boldness and innovation, but addresses the challenge of balancing innovation with risk, urging stations to listen to and empower younger programmers -- and LISTEN to them!

Tracy also discusses the importance of changing our revenue models, suggesting that radio stations move away from traditional ads and explore alternative streams

He envisions the evolution of traditional radio by leveraging unique strengths and adapting to digital platforms and podcasts, providing a roadmap for staying competitive in a rapidly changing media landscape.

Additionally, Tracy introduces Radio Content Pro, a groundbreaking tool that uses AI to enhance radio programming by curating targeted content and significantly boosting audience engagement. This episode is packed with forward-thinking strategies and practical advice, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of radio and media.

See Tracy's AI Webinar HERE

Check out Radio Content Pro today!

One Minute Martinizing by David Martin

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Most stations are becoming relatively safer and

2

taking fewer chances than ever.

3

So I think radio needs to get a lot

more provocative, a lot more emotionally

4

connected and a lot more interesting.

5

VO: BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio

with a different take on all radio can be.

6

Tracy: Nobody's innovating.

7

Nobody's doing something that.

8

Everyone agrees this makes sense and

this will work, and nobody will do it.

9

VO: Now your guides through the

mediamorphosis, David Martin, and author

10

of the book, BRANDwidth on Demand,

media branding coach, Kipper McGee.

11

Dave: Tracy Johnson is a

legendary radio consultant with

12

over 30 years in the industry.

13

He's famous for his innovative

methods of boosting audiences

14

and revenue at the same time.

15

Tracy's helped numerous radio

stations achieve great success.

16

top market positions.

17

He has a knack for creating

compelling content and for

18

improving listener experiencing.

19

He has a knack for creating

compelling content and

20

improving listener experiences.

21

It's made him a go to advisor

for radio pros around the world.

22

Tracy's insights and strategies are

constantly shaping the future of

23

radio, ensuring stations stay relevant

and engaging in what is obviously

24

an ever changing media landscape.

25

Today, he's here to share something

that could change your life.

26

No, really.

27

Brandwith On Demand is proud

to welcome Tracy Johnson.

28

Kipper: Hey, Tracy.

29

Hey, Tracy.

30

Tracy: Thank you.

31

It's good.

32

It's good to be talking

with you, Dave and Kipper.

33

It's a pleasure to be on.

34

Kipper: So question, you've been doing

a lot of stuff, including, uh, all

35

the recent conventions and whatnot.

36

What are some of the key trends

you're observing in radio programming,

37

especially over the past year,

year and a half, two years.

38

How should young program director,

content manager, whatever you

39

want to call them, how should

they be adapting to those changes?

40

Tracy: That's a really

complicated question, Kipper.

41

Kipper: That's why I asked you.

42

Tracy: I'll give you my overview on it.

43

I think that radio programming has

fallen backward over the past few years.

44

Not because it has declined

in quality or approach, but

45

because it hasn't moved forward.

46

In quality and approach in Dave's very

complimentary and flattering intro,

47

talked about how I've been instrumental

in keeping radio stations relevant.

48

And I appreciate that.

49

But I don't think it's important to

make radio stations relevant today.

50

I think radio stations

are already relevant.

51

Everybody knows what to expect from them.

52

Relevant is no longer enough.

53

We have to be much more top

of mind because if you look

54

at all of the statistics, time

spent listening is going down.

55

Occasions are going down.

56

If you look at the rating services,

they are having a harder and harder

57

time recruiting a sample that will

participate with the rating system.

58

And the reason is because there are fewer

and fewer people who are using radio.

59

And I think that the reason

is because radio programming

60

has gotten more conservative.

61

By comparison to the other

media and the comparison I draw

62

is, uh, to network television.

63

Network television is just

as well produced and well

64

written as it has ever been.

65

But if you go to some of the streaming

services and watch some of the

66

original series on Apple TV or Hulu

or Netflix or Peacock or any of the

67

other services and then come back and

watch a network television, uh, series.

68

It's not very interesting anymore.

69

Yeah.

70

The networks are still competing

NBC versus ABC versus CBS are

71

competing for market share through

a rating system instead of.

72

Relevance or importance

or top of mind awareness.

73

And I think the same thing is happening

with radio programming today where

74

radio stations and broadcasters

are measuring their success and how

75

well we're doing against other radio

stations, not peeding for attention.

76

And we are competing with

so many other things.

77

It's a, we're in an attention battle for

top of mind awareness yet in doing so

78

most stations are becoming relatively

safer and taking fewer chances than ever.

79

So, uh, I think radio needs to get a lot

more provocative, a lot more emotionally

80

connected and a lot more interesting.

81

Dave: Well, Tracy, how do you see

the role of radio evolving then?

82

What's the next step for radio?

83

Tracy: Well, one of the things Kipper

mentioned is what you would say to

84

young programmers that are coming in.

85

And I, what I would say to

young programmers are be bold.

86

And I would say to legacy broadcasters.

87

Is, listen to them.

88

Listen to them and take when, when the

three of us were young programmers in our

89

twenties programming radio stations, they

kind of gave us the keys to the radio

90

station and said, go, make it sound great.

91

Kipper: Right...

92

Tracy: and we were connected with what the

audience was responding to at that time.

93

But if you get a young programmer

in place now, someone without.

94

Decades of experience and wisdom

and knowledge in the way that

95

traditional radio views such

things, nobody listens to them.

96

It's execute the format that you're

given, execute the plan that the

97

court, that the company is setting

forth, basically saying, learn to

98

do it our way and don't screw up.

99

As opposed to go create something

magical that can happen and

100

attract a new audience to it.

101

And I think that there's been

a creativity drain that is kind

102

of creating as a self fulfilling

prophecy that nobody's taking any

103

meaningful steps to be more engaging.

104

Dave: Risk averse.

105

Yeah,

106

Tracy: Risk aversion is what's

happening everywhere on radio.

107

Kipper: Yeah.

108

And sadly, I have heard the position

of program director be referred to

109

in the past week as implementer.

110

Tracy: Administrator and executor.

111

Kipper: Yeah.

112

Yeah.

113

And that is exactly what you're talking

about, which is very frightening.

114

Cause if it weren't for the crazy cats,

like the Norm WIner's at XRT and the

115

Jim Kerr's and some of those folks

all the way back, it could have been a

116

pretty, uh, it could be pretty rough.

117

Tracy: Yeah.

118

Well, if you play that out.

119

Look what happens.

120

You end up with a talent drain

because you get the truly innovative,

121

creative programmers and personalities

who get into radio because they

122

think it's going to be exciting and

they're going to make a difference.

123

They find out that they can't.

124

I'll just go start a YouTube channel.

125

Instead.

126

I'll start a podcast.

127

Instead.

128

I'll start being a video streamer instead,

because these are creative people who have

129

other opportunities and other options.

130

In many cases, they are, they're

more creatively challenging.

131

And at the same time, a lot of times

they're more lucrative financially because

132

broadcast budgets aren't getting larger.

133

They're getting smaller.

134

Kipper: Absolutely.

135

So with the rise of all of those things

from digital platforms to podcasts

136

and, everything else that's out there.

137

How do you see the

traditional role of radio?

138

Not how it's going to evolve, but

how would you like to see it evolve?

139

Tracy: I would like to see it

change the model for how radio

140

stations make their money.

141

Uh, because I, this all comes

back to how the account executives

142

go out and sell advertising.

143

And we're still selling 30 and

60 second ads to media buyers

144

who are buying traditional media.

145

And they're all speaking the same language

that we've been speaking for 50 years.

146

Here's our spreadsheet.

147

Here's what our ratings are.

148

Here's how we're doing

against the other stations.

149

Don't buy these other radio stations.

150

Buy ours instead.

151

We're good.

152

They're bad.

153

And the net effect of that at agencies

all over the world is Man, every radio

154

station comes in here and tells me how

bad all the other radio stations are.

155

It must mean that they're all bad.

156

Kipper: Yeah, I don't listen to it myself.

157

So why would I?

158

Tracy: Yeah, and there's got to be a

better story to tell than going in and

159

saying, here's how we're doing in the

ratings against other radio stations.

160

And most radio stations

still have a very large QM.

161

And in most cases, they've got a

relatively high percentage of that QM

162

that are P1s or fans of their station

that we can have an influence on.

163

We need to tell the story about

the value of that audience.

164

And I also think that there has got to

be a come a time where broadcasters are

165

proud of what radio is, which is a media.

166

That appeals mostly to a more mature

audience, 45 plus, probably even

167

55 plus, but you still have sales

departments who go into agencies and

168

basically apologize for appealing

to anyone over the age of 54.

169

We're still talking about 25-54 media

buys, and if you do the research, the

170

people over 55 control a disproportionate

amount of spending that happens in

171

North America today, and they're

the ones who love radio the most.

172

Kipper: Absolutely, and Fidelity

and Schwab don't mind reaching them.

173

Tracy: Oh, nor does Mercedes.

174

Look at the artists, the music

artists who have sold their libraries

175

over the last few years and the

hundreds of millions of dollars.

176

They're selling those libraries to

who do they appeal to 55 plus the

177

Rolling Stones can get hundreds of

dollars per ticket for a concert tour.

178

How much does a new up and coming band?

179

They can't get nearly

that amount of money.

180

As the legacy bands that are

appealing to fans with deeper

181

pockets and radio has those people.

182

We just need to tell that story

and tell that story differently.

183

Instead of telling it the way

that the ratings services have

184

positioned it to, to agencies.

185

Dave: Yeah, there hasn't been

a lot of innovation in, uh, The

186

sales department, that's for sure.

187

Tracy: No, there hasn't.

188

And I go back when I was managing my group

of stations here in San Diego, 20 years

189

ago, I pulled out of the broadcast group

here and all the stations got together and

190

said, how are we going to promote radio?

191

And I pulled out of it because.

192

We would all have these wonderful

meetings about how we're going to raise

193

the profile of the media in San Diego.

194

And then the next day, everybody was

out saying, Hey, don't buy this station

195

because they're they're no good.

196

We're good.

197

And I said, this is ridiculous.

198

We can't have a meeting one day

talking about how we're going to

199

re rising tide lifts, all boats.

200

And everybody goes out the next

day and trashes each other.

201

Dave: Good point.

202

No, it's an excellent point.

203

Tracy: And we wouldn't do that.

204

And they would not stop doing it.

205

So I just pulled out of that because

we told our story differently.

206

Dave: And we're going to talk

about younger audiences, I guess.

207

So Tracy, how can stations better

connect with a younger audience?

208

We've talked about all these

folks that are 55 and older

209

and radio does an excellent job

there, but what about the future?

210

Tracy: Well, there's very

few broadcasters who.

211

would disagree with the statement that

commercials on the radio are a problem

212

in attracting younger audiences, but

nobody's willing to do anything about it.

213

And until somebody is willing to

do something about it, we're not

214

going to get younger audiences.

215

I found in focus groups,

younger listeners.

216

Really aren't angry at radio.

217

They don't dislike radio.

218

They just have no use for it

because every time they turn it on,

219

there's commercials on all the time.

220

And then when they when

the commercials come on one

221

station, they're okay with that.

222

They're going to tune out.

223

And when they tune out,

they go to another station.

224

But every station, the markets

bow tied at exactly the same time.

225

So the impression we give them is that

every station plays too many commercials.

226

It's just all at once.

227

And after a while, it's that fatigue that

sets in and they decide radios, not for

228

me, they play way too many commercials.

229

And that is true.

230

That's logically true that radio

stations all do play too many

231

commercials, but we make it sound like

we play even more than we actually do

232

because of the way we use the radio.

233

So we got to fix that.

234

We got to fix, we got to

stop chasing Nielsen ratings.

235

Or whatever the ratings are,

raise our ratings in in Europe.

236

We gotta stop chasing those

ratings and chase fans.

237

We gotta go from how can we get

another quarter hour of listening

238

out of this meter respondent to how

can we build more fans for the brand?

239

And that's a very different

programming proposition.

240

And when we start looking at how can

we can build a larger fan base, I think

241

we have the potential of bringing some

younger people back to spending more time

242

with the radio, because again, they're

not against listening to the radio.

243

They like having the option.

244

They just.

245

We just do a lot of things that make

it hard for them to listen a lot.

246

Kipper: Indeed.

247

So looking ahead, turning the coin, what

do you think will be the most significant

248

changes and opportunities for people

in radio in the next decade or so?

249

Tracy: I think there that radio is fast

approaching a tipping point that will

250

cause radical change to how stations

operate, how they monetize their brands

251

and how they promote themselves and pro

and program themselves to an audience.

252

And I don't know exactly what that's

going to look like, but I think that

253

if you look at the big companies

who continue to cut budgets where

254

there's no more budgets to cut.

255

And they still keep finding ways that

they started cutting into the bone

256

of these radio stations years ago.

257

I don't know how they can keep coming

up and looking for another 7 percent

258

or 10 percent to take out of it.

259

They are getting down to taking

out the very heart of what radio

260

stations offer to the audience.

261

And when it gets painful enough,

A completely different approach

262

is going to have to set in.

263

And what that could lead to a renaissance

of the medium and a renaissance of some of

264

these brands, because the old traditional

models are no longer going to work.

265

There's a lot of markets in top

10 and top 15, top 20 markets.

266

Where national buys have almost completely

disappeared because there are no

267

stations in those markets who qualify

from an average quarter hour standpoint

268

to get on national buys anymore.

269

Not the average quarter hour share, the

average quarter hour rating, because

270

time spent listening and QM have dropped

to the point where it's not worth it.

271

And then there's so much

national inventory in the market.

272

Right.

273

From barter opportunities that the

rate on barter has come way down.

274

So there, there is a huge swelling

problem of declining revenues and lack of

275

innovation to, to turn that back around.

276

And when it gets painful enough,

somebody is going to do something

277

interesting and innovative, or the

are going to be a lot of stations

278

that go dark one at one or the other.

279

So what opportunities are there?

280

I think there are some really

talented programmers and

281

personalities who have amazing skills.

282

They know how to tell stories.

283

They know how to motivate audiences.

284

They know how to drive a product.

285

They have all the skills.

286

That digital platforms are

looking for and are hungry for.

287

It's just applying

those in different ways.

288

And I think there's tremendous

opportunities that are

289

out there outside of.

290

The loudspeaker that is

a broadcast transmitter.

291

It's just a matter of if the really

smart ones are looking for ways to apply

292

those skills differently and by managing

and controlling their own content.

293

Kipper: Very good.

294

Okay.

295

Dave: Excellent point.

296

We can all learn something

from Tracy Johnson.

297

What a guy.

298

Hey, Stony, you'd love to hear

from, we'd love to hear from you.

299

Send your suggestions to our

email show at brandwithondemand.

300

com or reach out to us on social

BRANDwidth on Demand plus on

301

Instagram, Facebook, and X

that's BRANDwidth, P L U S.

302

BRANDwidthPLUS.

303

Kipper: And if you're new to the

podcast, we want to say welcome.

304

We appreciate your listening and we want

to make sure you also hit that follow

305

button, wherever you get your podcasts.

306

And if you've been with us

for a while, please subscribe.

307

Feel free to tell a friend, Randwith On

Demand, wherever you get your podcasts.

308

Dave: Coming up, Tracy Johnson

explains a brand new show prep tool

309

that also helps with on air delivery,

social media posts, and a lot more.

310

Spot1: I'm a music director

at any radio station USA.

311

I do a five hour shift,

hours of production, live

312

appearances out the Yazoo.

313

And oh yeah, my PD just heard two

slow songs back to back followed

314

by three of the same artist.

315

My station sounds like a dumpster fire.

316

If you have any other music

suggestions, Scheduling software.

317

This could be you.

318

Musicmaster and your station will sound

like a well curated entertainment machine

319

and you could avoid mayhem like me.

320

Details at musicmaster.

321

com

322

VO: Exploring media

evolution in real time.

323

BRANDwidth on Demand.

324

Dave: We are talking with

broadcast innovator, Tracy Johnson.

325

Focusing this time on a brand new

tool that your station's really going

326

to want, especially if you're still

wondering how to harness the power

327

of chat, GPT, and all that AI stuff.

328

Tracy, would you please explain to us

what Radio Content Pro is all about?

329

Tracy: I got involved with Radio Content

Pro a couple of years ago when I was

330

asked by a company to help them develop

content for AI voices and AI bots.

331

And we worked on that for about six

months and we really nailed the content

332

part of it and that has developed and

turned into a team of developers who

333

created AI bots that go all over the

internet, 24 hours a day, seven days

334

a day, 365 days a year and curate.

335

Targeted content that is customized

for a variety of formats and brands.

336

There are currently seven products

in all, and two more that are coming

337

for Hispanic radio that'll be out

here in the next two or three weeks,

338

but the bots curate the content.

339

So they'll analyze everything

that's in an article or a post.

340

And then curate it in 12 to 14 different

ways for radio stations to be able to

341

use it, to benefit what they do on the

air, online, on social media, gives

342

their personalities and all their content

creators, unprecedented power to create

343

original entertainment, original content.

344

Kipper: So with all of this information

flying at me, like I'm Can you explain

345

how you break it down and make it

usable for people on the station level?

346

Tracy: No problem.

347

We've got a product that's targeted

to CHR and hot AC stations.

348

It's called a radio content pro or RCP

buzz one for rock, which we call edge.

349

Another is for Mainstream

AC, we call it Mainstream.

350

One for Christian formats,

we call RCP Spirit.

351

Another one is for Hip Hop and

Rhythmic CHR, it's RCP Hip Hop.

352

Then there is one for News

Talk that has recently come

353

out, it's RCP Info and Country.

354

And then the two new ones are going

to be two different services for

355

different versions of Hispanic radio.

356

And we have more coming.

357

We have a classic rock,

classic hits coming.

358

We've got classic R& B.

359

Urban coming as well.

360

So there's something for every format and

then inside the format prompts that are

361

able to curate that content specifically

for the brand or for the format that

362

you're in, you get some specific, uh,

content based on your personality type,

363

whether you're edgy, mainstream, or family

friendly on every single piece of content.

364

And we've just added a new bot.

365

That will personalize it even more

specifically for the individual

366

personality, where you can take

any piece of content, any tease.

367

Any news story any response, any

blog posts that is in radio content

368

pro and personalize it to get

as specific as you want with it.

369

Kipper: So if I'm doing a radio

show and I want to have it focus on

370

certain things, how do I tell it what

I want to look at and what are the

371

things I will get as the end product?

372

Tracy: The story that I'm excited

about right now just came to me this

373

morning from one of our RCP info

affiliates that's been using it for

374

about two weeks and said that what he

loves about it is the sidekick feature.

375

That's the personalized AI bot sidekick

lives in the bottom right corner

376

of every screen and you can click

on it and it opens up a dialogue.

377

You could say something like, I'm looking

to be more provocative with this content.

378

Can you give me some more phone topics

that will anger this type of listener?

379

And it'll take that

topic and it'll juice it.

380

It'll make it more provocative.

381

Or another great use for that is

if you're a good news station,

382

have you got a good news feature?

383

You're the glass is three quarters full.

384

Like if you're in a Christian format or

a mainstream AC, you can take even the

385

most negative stories that are coming

out and tell sidekick, I'm looking

386

for a positive spin on this story.

387

Find a nugget of information that

can be a good news story and tell me

388

how I can share this with my audience

to make them feel good about it.

389

I mean, it comes back in just

seconds with six, eight, 10

390

different pieces of content.

391

That the two things that I got

from this morning is one is

392

how Sidekick localizes content.

393

So if I'm in San Diego, I

could type in to Sidekick.

394

I want you to take this.

395

These topics and make them local for my

audience here, and it'll start dropping

396

in local employers and celebrities and

landmarks and businesses and neighborhoods

397

and communities and customizing the

content to your community, which is

398

really powerful This morning, aBRANDwidth.

399

RCP info personality texted me and

said, I've been using this on my talk

400

show for the last couple of weeks.

401

And what I'm doing now is

asking it to argue with me.

402

I'll tell it what my point

of view or my perspective is.

403

And I'll ask, I'll tell sidekick, tell me

all the reasons why I'm wrong about this.

404

And it brings up all the talking points,

all the provocative talking points

405

that he wants to get his audience into

when he goes on and does his talk show.

406

And he says it's the most valuable part

that he's been able to find with it.

407

And I never thought

about using it that way.

408

So I'm excited about all the different

ways that our users are starting

409

to come up with to apply Sidekick.

410

Kipper: Hey, some great stuff, Tracy.

411

Thanks for sharing it.

412

Dave: Yeah, great stuff.

413

Tracy: So now's the time if

you want to put AI to work

414

for you, Not instead of you.

415

Here's a recap.

416

Spot2: Imagine having your own prep

team working nonstop, a producer picking

417

the best content, a copywriter, making

every story hit home and a marketer

418

finding new ways to grow your audience.

419

All while a digital team keeps your feeds

fresh with posts, updates, and videos.

420

What if these pros were available

24 seven market experience?

421

Exclusive and affordable

for your radio station.

422

Power up your content before the

competition does with Radio Content Pro.

423

See the demo in action.

424

Just scroll down the show

notes or visit radiocontentpro.

425

com slash BRANDwidth on Demand

426

Dave: our thanks to Tracy Johnson.

427

He's always got some fresh and

innovative thinking going on Kipper,

428

a special BRANDwidth on Demand Link.

429

To radio content pro is in the show notes.

430

Just scroll down on your phone or

simply visit radio content pro slash

431

BRANDwidth on Demand B R A N D W I B T H.

432

Kipper: As always, we want to thank

our exec producer, Cindy Huber, and

433

associate producer, Hannah B, for booking.

434

Dave: That's a wrap, Kipper.

435

In One Minute Martinizing we'll

be talking about intention.

436

All it's important stuff.

437

What do you intend?

438

I'm Dave Martin.

439

Kipper: And I'm Kipper McGee.

440

May all your BRANDwidth be Wide!.