David Wheeler welcomes listeners back to Muck U, where they dive into the latest political developments with their guest, Wiley Nickel, a former Congressman now running for Wake County District Attorney. Wiley shares insights about his journey through politics, including the impact of gerrymandering that forced him out of Congress and his new campaign focused on public safety and justice reform. He emphasizes the importance of supporting law enforcement while pushing for independent redistricting to ensure fair elections. The hosts engage in a lively discussion about the challenges Democrats face in changing perceptions around crime and governance, with Wiley expressing confidence in his ability to connect with voters and bring about meaningful change. As they wrap up, there's a lighthearted moment about potential "Five Timers Club" jackets for repeat guests, highlighting the camaraderie and humor that define their conversations.

David Wheeler and Mo Davis welcome back Wiley Nickel, a familiar guest, to discuss his latest political endeavors, including his candidacy for Wake County District Attorney. The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted jab about Wiley’s multiple appearances on the podcast, drawing a humorous parallel to Saturday Night Live's Five Timers Club. This episode delves into Wiley's political journey, from his time as a Congressman to his recent decision to enter the race for District Attorney after initially pursuing a Senate seat. Wiley reflects on the implications of gerrymandering in North Carolina, sharing how it impacted his political career and the broader electoral landscape. He emphasizes the need for electoral reform and the importance of fair representation, highlighting the detrimental effects of partisan map drawing on democracy. The discussion touches on the current political climate in North Carolina, the challenges of campaigning, and Wiley's vision for law enforcement as a Democrat. He advocates for a strong partnership with law enforcement while addressing the concerns of criminal justice reform, making the case for why Democrats can be tough on crime without compromising their values. Throughout the episode, there’s a balance of humor and serious political discourse, making it an engaging listen for those interested in North Carolina politics and the ongoing battle for progressive values.

The episode takes a deep dive into Wiley Nickel's political aspirations, specifically his recent shift from running for a Senate seat to pursuing the role of Wake County District Attorney. David Wheeler and Mo Davis set a conversational tone, balancing humor with the gravitas of the topics discussed. Wiley shares insights about the impact of gerrymandering on his congressional seat and the broader implications for North Carolina's political landscape. He expresses his commitment to running a campaign that prioritizes public safety and law enforcement support while also emphasizing the need for criminal justice reforms. The discussion includes Wiley's views on the current political climate, his strategies for winning the election, and the importance of grassroots support. He also highlights the need for Democrats to reclaim the narrative surrounding law enforcement, asserting that they can be both supportive of police and advocates for justice reform. The episode captures the nuances of campaigning in a polarized political environment, offering listeners a glimpse into Wiley's vision for a safer, fairer Wake County. This engaging dialogue reflects the challenges and opportunities facing candidates in today's political landscape.

Wiley Nickel's return to the podcast serves as a platform for him to articulate his vision for Wake County as he runs for District Attorney. The episode opens with a jovial conversation about Wiley's frequent appearances, setting a relaxed atmosphere for the discussion. As the conversation shifts towards serious topics, Wiley discusses the detrimental effects of gerrymandering he faced during his tenure in Congress and its implications for democracy in North Carolina. He stresses the importance of fair electoral processes and how they can empower voters. The dialogue progresses into his campaign strategy, which focuses on public safety and effective law enforcement partnerships. Wiley addresses misconceptions about the Democratic stance on crime, arguing that Democrats can and should be tough on crime while also pushing for necessary reforms. Throughout the episode, he articulates a clear message of accountability and integrity, positioning himself as a candidate who can bridge the gap between law enforcement and community safety. The episode concludes with a humorous note as Wiley jokes about wanting a Muck U jacket for his repeat appearances, leaving listeners with a blend of political insight and light-hearted banter. Overall, this episode provides a comprehensive look at Wiley’s candidacy and the values he stands for as he seeks to represent Wake County.

Takeaways:

• Wiley Nickel discussed his transition from running for the Senate to the Wake County District Attorney race, highlighting the importance of public service.
• The podcast emphasized the impact of gerrymandering in North Carolina, particularly how it has shaped political dynamics and outcomes.
• David Wheeler and Mo Davis joked about the idea of a 'Five Timers Club' for Wiley, hinting at his frequent appearances on their show and building camaraderie.
• Wiley's campaign focuses on law enforcement support, aiming to reshape the narrative around Democrats being tough on crime and public safety.
• The hosts and Wiley Nickel reflected on the broader implications of gerrymandering, stressing its detrimental effects on democracy and representation.
• The discussion covered how Democrats can regain trust from the public by emphasizing their commitment to working families and social issues.

Links referenced in this episode:

• wileynickel.com
• americanmuckrakers.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• American Muckrakers

Hey folks, it's David Wheeler once again with Muck U. And I'm going to turn it over to my co host Moe Davis to introduce our guest today. Take it away, Mo.

Yeah, thanks, David. And welcome back, everybody. It's another beautiful day here in western North Carolina, not too far away from the leaf season beginning.

So we kind of missed out on that last year thanks to Hurricane Helene. But hopefully this year it's going to be a different story. But yeah, we got Wiley Nickel.

If you've been following the show, you know he's been on a couple of times before. I think it's the third time. You know, on Saturday Night Live they have the Five Timers Club.

So David, we're gonna have to maybe order some jackets or something if we keep having repeat. Yes, so exactly.

Or, or an empty beer can or something like that.

Yeah, so. Yeah, yep.

And if you're following the show, you know he was, he's been on a couple times earlier he announced early in the year he's going to run for the Senate seat. The Thom Tillis polls he came back on, did a, did a follow up on that.

And then in July after Roy Cooper got into the race, then Wiley elected to get out.

But then I guess just a couple of days ago he had another announcement and he's now running to be the district attorney for Wake county, which I guess I didn't realize.

Wake county is the most populous county in the state of North Carolina, just a few thousand people ahead of Mecklenburg, which I guess I had assumed was the biggest county. But Lauren Freeman is the current district attorney, he's not running for re election.

Looks like Wiley's got a couple of other competitors in the race. But Wally, hey, thanks for, thanks for coming back on and talking with us again.

Thanks so much, Moe. David, it's great to be with you. I'm, I am ready for that Five Timer Muckyou jacket.

So, you know, please, you know, if I, if I can, if you invite me on two more times, I expect the jacket and excited to be with you here today. You know, one of the things too, you mentioned my race for the U. S. Senate. You know, we set out with a simple mess, a simple plan.

We said I'm running for the Senate because I want to send Thom Tillis packing. So on that front, it was a mission accomplished.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's going to be a, an interesting race I saw today in, in the assembly or somewhere I was reading where I guess, you know, Roy Cooper is up in the polls and certainly has the name recognition. Watley. I think a lot of folks here in North Carolina just has no idea who he is. So who is the Republican contender?

I mean, he's, he's, you know, he's just a partisan hack, big oil lobbyist. You know, he was the head of the Republican Party here in North Carolina before he went to Washington with Trump.

So no real record of service for, for our state, you know, and you compare that with Governor Roy Cooper, you know, 16 years as our attorney general, eight years as our governor, you know, he's someone who's going to be a senator for everybody in our state.

And, you know, we got a great chance to win that race, you know, and for me getting out of the race, you know, I think one of the things that, that matters for Democrats is I think we got to be a lot tougher and winning elections is a big part of that. And I wanted to help make sure we can do everything we could to, to, to flip this Senate seat from red to blue.

And I'm, I'm proud of the campaign that Roy Cooper's running so far.

Yeah.

Hey, looking back at your, when you were serving in Congress, I was looking today at the, I mean, you got gerrymandered out of your seat and looking at the district. For folks that haven't, aren't familiar with NC13, Google it and pull up the map. It kind of wraps around the eastern side of Raleigh.

But there's no way you can really explain this map other than to achieve a specific result which was to get rid of you.

No, that's it. You know, you look at these maps that Republicans drew in North Carolina and they don't pass the smell test, they don't even pass the eye test.

You can, you can clearly see what they're designed to do and, you know, when you can draw the maps any way you want, you can pretty much guarantee the results. The worst part about it was the three seats, mine included, that Republicans gerrymandered over two years ago.

Were the difference in control of this current Congress, Hakeem Jeffries would be speaker of the House right now by 218 to 217 with, with one vote, probably mine. That would have been the difference. And Trump's, you know, big ugly bill would never have happened.

So much of the worst of what we're seeing out of Congress would have been dead on arrival. And that's, that's what gerrymandering did.

And that's why Donald Trump is, is so insistent on the getting other states all over the country to gerrymander.

I just saw last week Emanuel Cleaver, one of my good friends in Congress, representing Kansas City for quite a long time, you know, Republicans in Missouri have gerrymandered him out of his seat in Congress, turned a safe Democratic seat into a safe Republican seat. And we're all going to be worse off because of that.

But that's just one of the many that we're seeing, you know, where, where mapmakers are deciding elections rather than voters.

Yeah, it's really sad.

And I don't know where this ends because we're kind of in this tit for tat thing now where, you know, Texas redraws their maps and California redraws theirs and then Missouri. And where does this end? And how do we get back to having a, you know, a government that actually reflects the people?

Well, you know, I know, you know, what I have to first say is where we are now. And I spent years in the state Senate and Congress saying gerrymandering is wr no matter who does it. You know, we shouldn't do it.

You know, but then when they go and do a gerrymander in Texas, you know, that that has shifted five seats from blue to red immediately with the drawing of lines. You know, I felt like I had to come out and say something and, and I did.

And I said that, you know, what they're doing in California as a response to Texas is the right thing to do. Republicans are doing it. You know, Democrats should too.

And I think folks should understand just how small that universe is of competitive seats in Congress. I really, truly believe that down to less than 5% of the 435 seats in Congress, that, that really could go either way at this point.

So there are fewer and fewer of them. And if you, you knock out, you know, a few districts with gerrymandering, you make your odds so much greater to, to keep control of Congress.

And there's no prize for second place. You know, if you got 217 to 218, if you were on the wrong side of that, that number, you can't get anything done.

It's all through party line votes in the House. So it makes such a huge difference.

But I think the big point for trying to make sense of the mess and it sucks and it's a race to the bottom and it's Horrible is who's going to fix the problem. And the reality is Republicans have gerrymandered much more than Democrats.

If you count up all the seats across the country before this stuff happened in Texas a few weeks ago, Republicans have a 16 seat gerrymandering advantage nationwide. Democrats do it a little bit, Republicans do it a lot. It's worth 16 seats to them.

So if you're looking at who's going to fix the problem, Democrats are the party that has the incentive to do it. We're the ones who want independent redistricting in every state.

So every state plays by the same set of rules because it's in our interest to do that. So voters should trust Democrats to fix this issue in Congress. I had to bill the Fair Maps Act.

Democrats are going to continue pushing this in Congress. It would require every state in the country to have independent redistricting commissions.

Five Democrats, five Republicans, five unaffiliated, working together to draw fair maps. You know, Arizona and Colorado are kind of good examples of, of how that is playing out.

But we can do that with a simple majority in the House and Senate and a president willing to sign that bill into law. And you know, that's why Democrats are the party that folks should trust because just getting fair maps like that is better for us.

Yeah. And I guarantee you with, with AI now, you could probably in a matter ofseconds have 435 fair districts if you took people out of the equation.

Because, you know, this game in the system is it's not good for democracy, it's not good for the country, it's not good for the voters. But it's where we are. And like you said, it matters. You know, there's a vote today in the House.

The House has approved a continuing resolution and it was a part, pretty much a party line vote where, you know, Democrats were trying to restore funding for health care. That's going to, you know, clearly have a huge impact on North Carolina.

And like you said, if we had those extra seats, then it would have been a different story. But you know, it matters and folks need to be paying attention to it. Hey, let me ask about your race for district attorney there.

A friend of mine here in Asheville, district attorney for Buncombe county, and I've told him a number of times that, you know, it's a thankless job.

You know, the vast majority of what the district attorney does, you know, most people don't aren't aware of it, but when people do become aware of it, they're either, you know, happy or or pissed off about. About the outcome. If you've been too hard or too lenient or, you know, people, there's.

It just seems like when you see the DA's name in the paper, it's usually not in a. In a positive light. So why do this to yourself?

You know, it is a hard job, you know, but that's. That's why I'm. I'm drawn to public service. I'm a husband, a father of two kids. I care about their safety.

It's.

It's one of the big reasons why I've. I' chosen to. To, you know, pursue a career in public service. And this is an important job.

It's important for Wake county, you know, the state's largest county. There's a lot we can do to do things right in.

In Wake county and be an example for the rest of the state on how to get real good, you know, criminal justice reforms and. And to support law enforcement. That's. I think, a big part of this campaign is, is Democrats are the party for law enforcement.

We're the party that wants to stand with police to support, you know, our public safety, you know, and first responders. And what the Republican budget is. It's about defunding the police. They are taking billions and billions of dollars away from cities and counties.

And, you know, we have a chance to really take that narrative and show that we're the party that stands with law enforcement. So that's a big part of it.

And.

And for folks, you know, in North Carolina, you know, all over the state, who. Who are. Who are kind of, you know, looking at. Looking at this Wake DA race, it's very different from every other district attorney in the state.

Wake county, you know, again, largest county in the state. You know, 100,000 criminal cases come through that office every year. Talk about that if you want. But one of the things that wake.

The Wake D A has that is different from every other DA is Wake county, because we have the state capitol in Raleigh. The Wake DA is also in charge of all the investigations and prosecutions for political corruption in our state.

So, you know, tackling those cases is going to be a huge priority for me and one that really matters.

And if, you know, folks are trying to remember the Wake da, you know, nationally and around the state, our current district attorney, who is not running for reelection, tried to put Governor Josh Stein behind bars with a criminal indictment going after political speech. She. She used a close to 100-year-old statute to try to put him behind bars for a truthful Campaign ad.

It was one of the, the, you know, one of the, the reasons, if you're talking about decisions that people make in these jobs, that really matters.

So what happened with that case?

He was a clear first. It was clearly protected by the First Amendment. That, that kind of speech, the courts have said over and over and over is protected.

You can't put someone in jail because you don't like what they say and it doesn't agree with your political views and, and, and they threw it out. But, you know, if I were a district attorney, I, I certainly would never have filed that case.

Yeah, it's a complete waste of time and money. And, you know, obviously, if Stein did something wrong, you got to.

A political ad in political speech is probably not the place to start, but thank goodness she's not running again. And so how's your campaign going so far? Tell folks a little bit about yourself, refresh their memories as well as.

Let's give them a website so they can go check you out and drop some cash there.

No. Hey, I'd really appreciate any support and help in this race for Wake.

Sorry, let me, let me revise that. Sorry to interrupt you. While he not drop cash, we're going to drop a contribution legally through the website.

That's what I thought you meant.

We can't do cash in North Carolina.

No, it's, it's. Wileynickel.com is the website. You can learn a ton more about the issues that I'm focused on in this race for district attorney.

But about me, I've been a practicing attorney here in Wake county for well over a decade. I served in the North Carolina State Senate, but most people don't know when you're in the state senate, it's a job that only pays 14,000 a year.

Everyone has other jobs. They do. So up until two years ago, I was a practicing attorney.

Then I was elected to Congress flipping one of just six Republican seats from red to blue nationwide. In the last Congress, as we said earlier, my district was gerrymandered away from me. So Republican gerrymandering cut my time short in Congress.

I've got a lot of work left to do, and we got a terrific opportunity to do things that will help Wake county and the rest of the state with this race for district attorney.

So how's the race going so far? How you feeling?

It's great. We just launched this week and had a really great response, and now I'm just hitting the ground running.

Also really focused on here in Wake county and around the state. We've got a bunch of municipal elections. Those are really important.

So I'm supporting Democrats up and down the ballot in those races, you know, because getting a big turnout for these municipal elections in November is going to show the strength we need to flip our U.S. senate seat to make sure we reelect Anita Earls to our Supreme Court and help elect Democrats up and down the ballot.

Those are, you know, I think my, my big focus right now is making sure that, that, that we're in the best possible position to, to win big and get folks out to vote next year.

So one of the other things that we talk about a lot here is, you know, Democrats running tough campaigns. I think once you get through the primary, that race is pretty much over, I assume.

But on the same token, when you govern, you got to govern for all the people.

So my question for you, Wiley, is how do we change this perception, and it is perception that Democrats are weak on crime because that's clearly not the case statistically or just from a everyday standpoint. Democrats, you know, traditionally are a little bit tougher on criminals than, than Republicans are. How do we change that perception?

Well, you know, it starts with putting people into the right positions.

And, and that for me is going to be one of my top priorities, is going all over everywhere I possibly can to, to hammer that message, showing the data, showing what we need to do. One of the things, you know, in Congress, I represented urban, suburban and rural parts of North Carolina.

And you know, especially as you're getting into more rural parts of the state and, and suburban and even urban, you know, you saw a huge lack, a huge challenge for workforce for law enforcement. You've got, you know, fewer people going into the profession, you know, fewer, you know, many more, you know, positions available.

So we got to make sure that we invest, you know, if we want to have, you know, real public safety, it costs money. And we need to invest in good training.

We need to make sure, you know, we're, we're paying, giving our, our law enforcement officials, our police the respect they deserve with good pay, good benefits, good working conditions. And, and that's going to be the, the thing that I focus on as, as district attorney. You have a huge platform to make that case and drive it home.

And I think that's, that's a place where Democrats can, can win back a lot of these voters that we've lost. And frankly, we've lost a lot of voters, especially, you know, folks in the center. And we got to show that.

We got to show, put, put our money where our Mouth is and show folks that we are the party that stands with law enforcement. And I think Donald Trump is making that very easy for us. You know, he literally people who, who beat up cops on January 6th and let them out.

Unbelievable to me. And everything we're seeing with a corrupt administration in Washington shows exactly the same contempt for law enforcement.

And it's about these budgets too. Don't tell me what you think. Show me where it is in your budget.

And Donald Trump's budget is one that defunds the police and it's going to make it much harder to have good public safety in North Carolina and around the country.

Well, and one of the other things that we need to do is reinvigorate the Democratic leadership across the state. And I, I hope you will, you know, once you get your feet under you and, and you've started making things happen in wake.

Well, maybe take some of these other counties under your wing and help, help get them elect, help them elect Democrats again to some of these county within some of these, you know, non urban urban counties. Is that something you could help?

No, it's always been a big priority for me.

You know, in the last election I wasn't on the ballot because of gerrymandering, but I went all over the state, I raised over half a million dollars for, for Democrats up and down the ballot, going to continue doing that. And I think the message that you have, David, is really simple and really important here. We need to put Democrats on the ballot everywhere.

Even, even if you are listening to this and you know it is a no win race, you are in super red, super red area. You got to push that message out, you know, make people, you know, answer for, for the work they do.

If they're in a, you know, a competitive area, great. If it's a super Republican area, even better. You got to get that message out.

And I think that that's something that is going to be a part of our long term success. But just getting people to run for office and contest every race and, and talk about issues is, is one of the first steps.

And when you were in Congress, you were a member of the Blue Dog Coalition. And I'm just wondering, do you think that's, that's where the party needs to, needs to be focused?

I mean, it seems like a lot of folks are concerned that, you know, we've gotten too far astray and to the extremes and maybe back towards the middle. Is that, is that where we need to be looking?

You know, I think we need to be just doing a Better job selling our policies and talking about what we're really for. And, and it's, it's a, it's a time where I think we have a real opportunity there. You know, we are the party of working families.

I think that's the message that has gotten lost in so much of this in Washington.

And what I found in a, in a, you know, very competitive seat, I want a Republican leaning seat, you know, is I found like the biggest divide was because of gerrymandering in Congress. You had, it wasn't Democrat, Republican. It was safe seats versus competitive seats.

And the folks who are in these very safe seats, which again, you know, 90, 95% of the seats in Congress would kind of fall in that category. We really just focused on appealing to the far left or the far right to win their Democrat or Republican primaries.

And there are fewer people, you know, incentivized to really get things done and work towards the center. So, you know, we have good messages, we have good messengers, but you just hear so much from the, the, you know, the extremes.

And I think that's, that's what gerrymandering has done, you know, in, in, you know, to, to harm that ability to communicate.

But we need folks talking about what we're going to do, you know, to, to combat a president who's total working families in North Carolina and around the country. And you were talking about health care earlier in North Carolina is pretty simple.

This bill that Trump has signed into law is going to mean over 600,000 of our friends and neighbors in North Carolina are going to lose access to health care. That's a big deal and that's one that we got to continue driving home.

We're the party that supports working families and everything that Donald Trump is doing is all about supporting his billionaire buddies and CEOs at the top.

Yeah, that's one of the arguments I've been making is I'd like to see us redefine this to where it's not.

I mean, right now it tends to be, you know, either a, you know, choice between red and blue, either have an R next to your name or a D next to your name. And people vote, you know, based on their perceived interest.

I think this ought to be a contest between the rich and the rest because on one side you've got these policies that are clearly, I mean, all the data shows that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poor and the middle class is disappearing.

And we need to get that message across to folks that if you're not One of the rich, you know, if you're one of the rest, the Republican Party is not looking out for you and your family. We are.

And it seems like, you know, it's a shame that we, we've lost touch with working class folks when we truly are the party that has their interests at heart.

That's exactly right. You know, and we can talk policy after policy where that, that plays out.

But you know, one of the, that I, I've spent time talking about and, and we're going to have to in the next decade here is Social Security. That's a place where those, those same ideas play out exactly for folks in a way that they can really understand and appreciate.

You know, you've got a cap. It's, it's just over 160,000, I don't think exact number. But once, once you, you make more than that a year, you stop paying into Social Security.

You know, I had a bill in Congress that would require those making over 400,000 to start paying into Social Security. There's others that have a million. But that's a simple place where you can show where you stand with your values.

And Social Security is going to run out of money in the next decade and we're going to have to do something.

And it's what we are either going to make, you know, millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share or we're going to make people work two or three years longer before they get the benefits, the earned benefits that they've paid into all their life. That's a place where the exact stuff we're talking about is going to play out in a very real way. And we get to show folks you know where we stand.

And Republicans, I guarantee you talk to any Republican, bring them on the show, they, they are going to tell you they're not going to have an answer for you on this because they're never going to raise taxes on millionaires.

We're not, you know, I don't think anybody's arguing to soak the rich, but it's about damn time. They pay their fair share.

That's it. Exactly.

And, and what you're seeing is, is the super wealthy, you know, continue to pay much less than, you know, the, the, you know, the, the people who support them at their companies. You know, you've got a, you know, personal assistant, a secretary or receptionist at a, at a major company.

They, they pay more taxes as a percentage of their income than, than the CEOs. Over and over and over. You see that, and it's just wrong.

Hey, let me ask about a couple other legal issues.

You know, one that, you know, everybody's talking about right now is what happened with Jimmy Kimmel, you know, getting ABC electing to end his show, you know, after being pressured by Trump and the head of the fcc.

It seems like, you know, the times we're living in where we have American troops and American cities intimidating people, where we have comedians getting fired, you know, for making jokes, you know, it's hard to imagine this is America.

This is a really dangerous time.

You know, I'm encouraged, though, by voters of all, you know, who support all the political parties, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, who are as upset at what they're seeing out of Trump in Washington. The midterms give us a chance to really show where the country stands on this. He's not representing, you know, mainstream values in Washington.

And this is a chilling attack on free speech. And, you know, I think for anybody trying to make sense of it, I think what Jimmy Kimmel said wasn't the reason he was fired.

He was fired because Donald Trump pressured the parent companies and would have cost them millions, if not billions by blocking a merger if they didn't get rid of him.

And that's pretty scary because the reason that his show was canceled was because of what he said over and over, not what he said in one night, but what he said about Trump every night. And now we've lost that voice on, you know, abc.

And I think you're going to see news organizations and, you know, media companies and talk shows change the way they talk because of it, and that's really bad for democracy.

Yeah. I'm hoping Kim will sues. You may be familiar with the.

There's a case the Supreme Court decided in May of last year, National Rifle association versus Volo.

And it was a case where the nra, it was a state regulator who was putting pressure on companies, not, I think it was insurance policies that the NRA was, you know, hawking. And they were putting pressure on companies not to, to do business, you know, with the NRA in a unanimous decision.

I mean, it's rare yet The Supreme Court all to agree on an issue, but a unanimous decision written by Justice Sotomayor, in which every conservative justice agreed, said that that was a violation of the First Amendment. This indirect, you know, this threat of bad things can happen to you if you don't silence political speech. So I'm hoping Kimmel sues.

I mean, I think the Supreme Court would have a hard time tap dancing around a 90 decision that just came out for, but 15 months ago.

Yeah, no, I think like, like me and everybody else, we're just kind of holding our breath to see what he does next. I, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopeful that, you know, he continues to, to stay out there. I, I like this show a lot. I thought it was pretty funny.

Yeah.

And, you know, I can't imagine that they could ever replace him with anybody that, that would be the same.

Right.

I'm curious, too, what your take is on, you know, Trump saying he's going to designate Antifa as a, a domestic terrorism group, you know, during his last term is his director of the FBI said that, you know, Antifa really hitting the group. It's an ideology. So to me, it seems like this is more show over substance. But what's your take on this?

Yeah, I think it is. And, and that's how Trump continues to just dominate the, the news cycle every day. He eats up all the oxygen.

And, and that's the problem for Democrats is, you know, we can't get a word in edgewise because, you know, as President, he's doing 20 different things every day, and we're just struggling to keep up with it. But this is, is, is one of it, you know, is just more of the same.

You know, my, my hope is that folks will dig in more onto the policy side and see how that really affects them in their daily lives. These tariffs are horrible. You know, you go to the grocery store and you can see item after item that's, that's just gone through the roof.

So I think on all of these fronts, it's going to catch up with him. You know, this is not a president who's governing for, for all Americans.

You know, he's, he is, is someone that, that has has strayed so far from where even, you know, Republicans, you know, you know, you look back at George W. Bush and George H.W. bush and, you know, he's doing things that they would never think of doing.

So, Wiley, how do you win this race? What's important? Obviously, wileynickel.com folks can donate, but what's your strategy to separate yourself from the other two opponents?

You know, just continue to talk about the, the work that I did as a state senator, as in Congress, as an Obama staffer, and what I want to do for Wake county getting out with a positive message.

I'm going to be going all over Wake county, and I hope folks will be interested in this race and, and check us out again@wileynickel.com which is my website. But, you know, I think that politics is pretty simple.

Just put out a positive message and work real hard to talk to the voters and you're going to be successful.

So on that level, I think we're off to a great start and just excited to continue the work I started in Congress and really kind of to tie this back to what we were talking about before, too. The courts really are a place where we're seeing a lot of good work fighting back to, against Donald Trump's administration and their overreach.

Whether it's Attorney General Jeff Jackson, you know, or other, other actors in our state, this is a place where we need to make sure we're electing Democrats to stand up for our values. That's going to be a big part of my campaign as well.

Good, good, well.

And, and we all love Jeff Jackson, and I think you served with him in the Senate, and I think that's important, too, that you've got a good relationship with the Attorney General of the entire state and you guys can coordinate certain law enforcement actions and show, show this state again that Democrats are just as tough on criminals and more importantly, support law enforcement officers and the concept of actually the law in this state. Because there's, you know, a lot of people, including our president, that don't seem to believe that the law is that important anymore.

So one last question. You sound good. You look excited. You look like you're pumped and ready to move.

I think having the Roy Cooper hanging over or potentially getting in maybe made you a little tentative in the last, last podcast we had with you. But I, I, I really hope folks will go to wileynickel.com and check out Wiley's page. Background his lovely family.

Consider giving him a couple dollars for his campaign. But I've got one last question for you, Wiley, and then we'll call today the DA's.

If the DA's office had a big neon sign over the front door, which would you pick? Justice for All Or B, Play stupid games, Win Stupid prizes. Or C, we've got the receipts. Which one is it?

Justice for? All.

Right, well, I I kind of suspected that would be the one. But I was hoping you would go for the stupid game, stupid prizes because that would be fun actually to see in law.

Well, I, I am looking for that, that prize of the, of the mucky jacket when I can come.

Oh, he's going back to the mucky jacket.

All right.

We're gonna have to raise some money.

Or a T shirt. I would take a T shirt too, but you know, you don't have to go full jacket.

You know, the people that listen to the podcast don't get to, I mean, you've seen David and I and you know what high fashion individuals we are. So our, our fashion consultants are busy working on that jacket right now.

All right, Wiley, well, best of luck and we'll have you back for the fourth and maybe I'll, we'll delay your fifth until we actually raise some money to cover that T shirt. But thanks again for joining us, Wiley. That's it for this episode of Muck.

Cue.

Thanks again to my co host Colonel Mo Davis and to Congressman Wiley Nichol for joining us as he takes on the fight to be the next Wake County District attorney. Thank you also to Alicia on Wiley's staff. We'll be watching Wiley's race closely. Until next time, I'm David Wheeler, member of maga.

Starts bothering you, just turn to him and say, muck you.

This has been Muck you, co hosted by Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville and David Wheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina. Thanks to our guest today, the honorable Wiley Nichol, former member of Congress and current candidate for Wake County District Attorney.

Listen to additional episodes with Errol Musk, Anthony Scaramucci, Paul Begala, Mark McKinnon and others@AmericanMokrakers.com Please subscribe and support our work on Substack. Thanks for listening and y' all come back for the next episode of Muck.

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