Spiritual transformation isn't always peaceful—it often begins with resistance.

As you grow as a spiritual practitioner or transformational leader, you'll eventually reach moments where your old identity can no longer support who you're becoming. These pivotal transitions, often called shamanic deaths or initiatory experiences, can feel overwhelming physically, emotionally, and mentally—but they are often signs of profound personal evolution rather than indicators that something has gone wrong.

In this episode, Kelle Sparta is joined by returning guest Katherine Laurent-Shea to explore why meaningful transformation frequently brings discomfort, anxiety, procrastination, and even physical symptoms. Together they compare shamanic teachings with mindset and nervous system coaching, revealing how different traditions describe the same transformational process.

If you've ever wondered why stepping into your next level feels terrifying—even when you know it's the right path—this conversation offers practical perspective and reassurance for experienced practitioners committed to ethical leadership, discernment, and personal mastery.

What You'll Learn

• What a shamanic death really is—and what it isn't
• Why spiritual initiations often create resistance
• How identity shifts differ from mindset shifts
• Why your nervous system resists personal evolution
• The difference between intuition and fear-based resistance
• How procrastination, distraction, and anxiety can signal growth
• Practical ways to navigate major transformational thresholds
• Why experienced practitioners continue facing new initiations throughout life

References Mentioned

• The Over-Achiever's Guide to Spiritual Awakening by Kelle Sparta
• Adam and Eve and the Tree of Knowledge
• Shamanic initiation
• Healing crisis (Reiki concept)
• Nervous system regulation
• Shadow work
• Personal identity transformation

Resources Mentioned

Kelle Sparta:

https://kellesparta.com

Katherine Laurent-Shea:

https://katalystcoaching.com

Guided Vision Meditation (referenced by Katherine)

(Referenced in the episode; see Katherine's website.)

Note: The program Woo You referenced in this episode is the current name for the former Mastering Inner Healing program:

https://kellesparta.com/mastering-inner-healing/

 Hello, and welcome to Spirit Sherpa, the show that helps and encourages you on your journey to unlock your magic mojo. I'm Jules, your cohost. If you're new to this type of work, please start with episode one. If you're an intermediate, fast-forward over to episode 98, and if you're an advanced student, you can start with episode 200.

With me as always to share her insights and wisdom is a spirit doctor herself, Kelle Sparta. Hey, Kelle. How's it going? Hey, Jules. It's going great. We, as usual for this time of day in Panama, are having a thunderstorm. My dog is quaking underneath the table in front of me . So, you know, that's, that's sort of par for the course here during rainy season, so we get a thunderstorm every afternoon.

Yeah. Well, guess what. You're, you're sharing it because we literally just had a sprinkling of water, of rain come, come through. You know, it's been like the Mojave Desert over here. And so literally I was like, "Oh, it's raining. I'm so excited." My vegetables are gonna be so excited. Yeah. So- Well, it is pouring buckets here.

Uh, but it's still a, a drought technically. Um, we had 258 inches of rain last year, I think, um, which was a record, record year. The typical year is about 175 inches of rain, and you know, we're, we're way down from that. The... We were so excited yesterday because the, uh, the seasonal streams that are called, um, quebradas here, the seasonal streams are...

They've been dry all season, and, uh, we actually had a little bit of water running through them yesterday, so I was like, "Whoo, the stream is here." Very nice. Right? Yay. Yeah. So whereas last year they were, like, running really, really well all the time. They were almost never dry. So, uh, big difference from one year to the next, and both are, are supposedly abnormal, so I don't...

I still have no idea what a regular rainy season looks like . So- That, that'll be a future adventure to find out. Absolutely. I'm, I'm game to hang out and find out, you know? So- Well, speaking of adventures, we are gonna have one today. We have a returning guest with us. I'm so excited. We do. I'm excited too because she was...

She's such a trooper. She's been sick for the last week and a half, and I called her up literally six minutes before this podcast recording and said, "I meant to call you and ask you if you would do this, and I got distracted, and I ended up with... My day got away with me for me, and can you do this?" And she's like, "When?"

I said, "Six minutes." She's like, "Is it on video?" I'm like, "Yes." She's like, "I'll be there." I'm like, "I love you." So Katherine Laurent-Shea, this is her second time being on the show with us, and the last time Katherine was on the call, she and I were just getting to know each other. We had met through a Facebook group of people who were, were moving to Panama- And we were arriving within months of each other, and we went on each other's podcasts.

We had some c- communications, and now we are besties. So Catherine, thank you for coming back. I love you so much. I love you, too. I'm so excited to be here. I also have a dog under my desk right now because the thunder, like, it rumbles over our house, and the house, like, literally shakes. So when you called me, I was sitting at our dining room table because we've set it up permanently as the thunder dome, which is basically it's draped with blankets for the dogs to go under.

So I have, like, the work zone in the morning and then the thunder dome in the afternoon. And so, you know, that's... We usually set up the thunder dome in the kitchen for our dog because that's where he likes to be because it's the most insulated from the outside. Um, and so we've actually taken to setting up a table in the kitchen and draping it with, with, uh, a comforter and putting a pad underneath and, you know, setting it all up as his little comfort place.

But he, he wants to be where I am when I'm, when I'm podcasting, so he's, he's living with the cramped quarters and my feet occasionally toeing him in the butt. So As I'm like, "I'd really like to put my feet down, but no." I'm gonna be on my toes for the entire episode. So yeah, so we had a very interesting conversation, and this is why I wanted to do this episode today.

Um, I was talking with someone who was thinking about coming into my program, and she's been talking about coming into my programs for a while, like a long while. And, um, you know, this is one of those things that happens when people come in. And one thing, uh, so the thing that I hear from a lot of people, and, and this person in particular actually mentioned that too, she said, "You know, I've been outgrowing a lot of my teachers.

And, you know, I just keep outgrowing them." And I'm like, "I get it." And she said, "You know, I liked you because I wouldn't outgrow you." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'd be surprised. I'd be pleasantly surprised if you did, but, but I'd be surprised because, you know, I'm that far ahead." But still, nonetheless. Um, and so one of the things that happens when you are starting on this path is that you, you're going to go through processes, and initial processes are all about, uh, perspective shifts and being able to see the world differently and being able to, to choose your, your thoughts, right?

So thought choices and perspective shifts is sort of the first stage, and then the next stage is looking at your limiting beliefs and where those come into play. And then the next stage is looking at your assumptions about life and, and how those are impacting how you're existing in the world. At each stage, they, there are initiation points, right?

With perspective shifts, the initiation point, the f- the initiate... I can't talk. The initiation points are, they're just the act of, of getting the perspective shift. That is the initiation. When you, when you integrate a perspective shift, it changes how you see everything, and that is an, an initiation unto itself.

It's a very low-grade initiation, right? And let me define initiation. We, we did an entire podcast on this in the beginning, so go back if you, if you need more on initiations. We did a whole podcast on it. I think it was, like, episode 18 or s- somewhere in the very ear- or very early stages. And, um, what, what you need to understand is that initiation is a, is a step from one state of being to another.

It is a crossing point from which there is no return. Okay? So for instance, when you get married, you are being initiated into the state of marriage. There is no not being married again. You will never have not been married again. You can get divorced, but you will never have not been married again. Right?

These initiation points are points at which you, you can't go back. Right? So this is one of the things that n- if you, if you get a copy of my book, you'll see in the introduction it says, you know, "Stepping onto this path is like learning how to read. You can refuse to read the signs, but you will always know what they say."

Right? Once you've learned how to read, you will never be illiterate again. And so choose wisely. You know, make sure you wanna be on the path before you step onto it, because you can't unlearn it. It is a, an initiation point, right? And so as we go through the initiations, the, th- those initiations become more significant, and what you're dealing with becomes more core to the central part of your being.

Because we... The, you know, the upper tier stuff, the thoughts, the whatever, if we've got negative thoughts and stuff like that, we're okay with letting go of negative thoughts. We're like, "Yeah, I would like to get rid of this thought. This thought sucks. I don't like it. I wanna be done with it." Right? But as you get further into your process, you start looking at things that are m- more core to your being that you may have positive associations a- attached to.

So, you know, if you have a positive association attached to the fact that you are a survivor and you, you get through anything and you're doing, you know, you will keep going no matter what. Well, the assumption that you make underneath that core belief that seems to be positive, the assumption you're making underneath that core belief, is that life is hard, and you have to cer- you have to just muscle up and, and power through, and that it doesn't get easier.

Right? That's the underlying assumption to that seemingly positive belief of being a survivor, right? And so that's when things start to get a little hairy around your, the shifting of your belief structures. Because now you're taking what is a positive belief structure you have about yourself and tearing it apart in service to letting go of the assumption that is not serving you, that's underneath it.

And so when you do that, you're challenging who you believe yourself to be, and that, when you're, when you're doing initiations at that level, now it becomes what's known as a shamanic death And a shamanic death is literally the end of a personality that you have been in service to the birth of a new personality that you are becoming, right?

And so, you know, we, we refer to it as a shamanic death. And And I will let you talk eventually, Catherine, I promise, but I, I just wanna say this one more thing. She's like, "Yeah, whatever, it's fine." Um, but the, uh, so I, I watched a TikTok, uh, yesterday, and I just made a response to it today. I haven't had a chance to cross-post it.

But the, um, one of the things that they were, th- that they were talking about in this video that I watched was that they said that God said that if you eat of the fruit of the, the, uh, tree of knowledge, you will surely die. And she said, "And then Adam and Eve ate, and then they didn't die, so he lied", right?

And, you know, the, the biblical scholar who was responding to this said, "Yeah, he lied." And I'm like, "He didn't lie. It was a shamanic death. It was not a physical death." They died to their innocence. They died to their naivete. The, the, the, the people that they were no longer existed once they tasted of the fruit of knowledge, right?

And that is the quintessential shamanic death, right? Where you now cannot see the world in the way that you saw it before. You have become someone new. And so, you know, this, this actually is an ancient concept that is really probably one of the most misunderstood things in the modern-day spiritual dynamic.

And so I had someone who had been talking to me for, uh, over a year about coming into the programs. And, um, every time I talked to her, it was delay, delay, delay, delay. And so we had this conversation, and I was mentioning this to Catherine over dinner. And she, you know, I said, "You know, this just feels like a whole lot of resistance to the shamanic death", and, you know, all this response that I got of, "Oh, I had this terrible feeling of dread and awfulness, and, and I just felt so overwhelmed the minute I committed, and ah", you know, hadn't even signed up yet, had just scheduled a date to sign up, and had this response, right?

And so, um, you know, just the, the responses that came were traditionally shamanic death experience. She was like, "I was having nausea." And I, you know, nausea is a fairly common response to this sort of experience. Um, you know, people may throw up their emotions. They may get what we affectionately refer to as the shamanic shits and clear out in the other direction, right?

Um, but, but when you're having a shift at such a core level of your being, it impacts your energy, and your energy impacts your physicality. And so, you know, your body responds, sometimes violently, to these shifts. It doesn't make it bad Right? This is the other piece of this work, is that you're stepping into a space where you are, um, you're, you're having to learn to see the world as experience Rather than as good or bad.

Nothing is good or bad, it is just an experience, and how we choose to interpret it may change over time depending upon what our, our awareness and perspective is from what, in any given moment. And so when you recognize that some of the worst experiences of your life have become the best teachers of your world, then you, you s- over time you start to go, "Yeah, it's just an experience," right?

Yet wasn't a pleasant experience, but it was just an experience, right? I'm not gonna label it good or bad because I don't know yet, right? I don't know, and what I think a year from now will be different than what I think five years from now or 10 years from now or 20 years from now, and so I'm gonna j- or three lifetimes from now, right?

And so, you know, w- not labeling is, is one of the things that is helpful in that. But I brought this to Catherine at dinner, and I said, "You know, this is what's been hav- happening," and she said, "Oh, we've got this in the work that I do, too." And Catherine comes at this from a very different angle than the shamanic perspective that I take this from.

And so I really, I wanted her to come onto the call today, uh, to, onto podcast so that she could talk about it from her side about how she sees it and how she teaches it with her people. So I'm gonna hand that over to you, and, uh, and let you talk, uh, about that and say how you feel. Hmm. Thank you, Kelle. I was...

If you saw me looking down, I'm just taking, like, copious notes, right? So I'm like, "Oh, like, that's this, and this is this, and this is this," and, and what I love and, you know, one of my core beliefs is that there is one presence, one power, and we're all talking about the same thing, and we all have a unique perspective and relationship and interaction with that.

So, you know, your kind of the shamanic perspective, I'm like, "Oh, like, that's so interesting because I see it, I understand it," and this is the language that I use to describe it and, um, and understand it. And so let me just take a moment here 'cause there's just, there's so much there. So the, the kind of way that I approach it, and it's, it's very similar, is that we all have a core identity.

Uh, you know, we're, we're kind of coming from that perspective. And often it's, it's unconscious. We're not really aware of our thinking, our patterns, our beliefs, our agreements. Often we look to things outside of us for permission or reasoning about what's happening in our life, but actually we live from an inside out.

Like, the point of power for your life is within you. And so when you start to make that shift, you actually start to see that you are creating your results in life. And so the way that I approach it is we start with asking the question, and Kelle, you've heard me ask this question, what would you love?

Which is my favorite question from you It's such a good question, right? It's a good question And here's a, here's another one. What if it was easy? Yeah. That's another like, mm, bah, question, right? So what would you love? And the reason we start with that question is because love is one of the highest vibrations, right?

So often we're looking to, what does my education say? What does my past say? What does my family say? What does the economy say? But when we ask ourselves, "What would I love?" And we really, really give ourselves permission to imagine and dream and think possibility-wise, well, what would I love? Like, if I could actually be and do and have and experience and express and give and, and just have the life of my desires, what would that look like?

And so what you would love when you're tapping into that question, you're actually tapping into spirit's idea for you. And so I believe that we are cosmic beings having a human experience, and we came here to grow and to learn and to express and to have fun, and to have, like, an amazing life, and to love and live and, and just learn and have the best time ever.

And so when we tap into, what is life's idea for me? What is spirit's idea for me, right? Putting aside all of the conditions, we start to get this... And I'm getting the, the God bumps right now. I don't know if you can feel that. But the... Like, you start to really tap into what is that higher order of being for yourself.

So when people start to do that, what happens is that there's like, there's this, like, opening up. There's this kinda like, oh, this like delicious feeling, and then pretty darn quick there's this smackdown of like, "Who do you think you are? You can't do that. That's a bad idea. You know, you tried this in the past.

It's not gonna work." And so all of those voices are basically the edge of the reality that we've known. So who you would love or what you would love is calling you to that next level version of yourself. That next level version of yourself is as yet unknown. It is, is yet, it is as yet unknown. If you knew how to live that life, you would be living that life right now.

You don't know how to yet. So it's outside of your comfort zone. It's outside of your normal. It's outside of what's familiar. And so things that are normal and familiar and comfortable, often they're not healthy, they're not good, right? It's that expression, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

It's only comfortable because we're familiar with it, right? And so when something is familiar to us, our nervous system experiences it as safe, even if it's, like, really, really not at the level of fact safe at all. And so when our nervous system and our, and our thoughts and our mind and our body knows what to expect, it has a sense of like, "Oh, okay, well, I, I feel safe here," right?

"This is comfortable." So the vision is calling you outside of what's comfortable. And just like the initiation, the, the, the point is the decision, right? So the initiation is like the decision. You can kind of like walk up to the edge of that comfort zone and maybe kinda like try to look through Or dance up and then dance back and then kind of come up and then come back and come up.

And the universe is just like, "Oh my God, like, come on already. Like, the magic is on the other side. Like, get your sh- sorry, get your ass together." I don't know if this is like a swearing appropriate call. I think it absolutely does. Okay. Get your butt over. Like, oh my God, you're... Like, I'm r- I'm waiting, right?

I've got the silver platter for you. And so we, like, come up and we back off, and we come up and we back off. So it's that decision, it's that initiation where we actually cross that line into the unknown. As soon as we cross the line, our nervous system, there's gonna be a little bit of freaking out, right?

And our... You can think about your internal operating systems, so your beliefs, your habits, your, um, you know, your perceptions, all of that. It's, it's like an, an operating system on your phone. So when you wanna run an upgraded app on your phone, often you need to upgrade your phone's operating system, right?

So if you wanna run, like, version new 2.0, but you haven't upgraded your operating system, it's, like, not compatible. Not compatible. And so when you start to step into that, your operating system is going to do everything it can to bring you back to what is familiar. And so there are three common ways that it shows up.

So the first one is it's going to try to get you to delay, right? So, uh, I work with, I work with female entrepreneurs, and lots of times it's like, "Well, I'll just wait until the kids are back in school before I kinda, you know, make a decision about this," or, "I'm just gonna wait until it's perfect before I actually, like, put this offer out there," or, "Maybe I'll wait until, you know, it's like October, we're kinda getting to the holiday season.

I'll wait till January." And so your internal operating system's like, "Okay, we don't need to worry 'cause she's actually not doing anything about it, so we can just kind of, you know, sit back here." So it'll delay. The other thing it tries to do is distract, right? So it's like that squirrel brain. Like, "Oh, I'll get to it once I've done this thing over here," right?

"I've gotta take care of this thing first," or, "I need to wait until this is done over here, until I have, like, all my ducks in a row." So it'll delay us, it'll distract us. And then if we're still taking action, like we've actually decided, we're like, "Okay, I'm doing this thing. I don't know how. I know that fear is gonna be a companion," and our operating system is kind of like, "Oh, F, like she's actually serious about this.

Like she's signed up to take this course, or she's decided to put this offer out there, or she's decided to move to Panama. The other ways aren't working. We're gonna DEFCON her. So that DEFCON... Yes, and Jules is laughing, 'cause, you know, you probably experienced it. So the DEFCON is when all of the other strategies to keep you from moving forward aren't working, so it's like let's turn up the volume onto max.

And so DEFCON often shows up like, um, an- it can feel like anxiety. It can have a physical aspect, because it's trying to argue for its existence. So it can feel like sweats. It can feel like anxiety. It can feel like nausea. You know, it can feel like terror. It can feel like paralysis. And so here's the thing.

This is not a sign from the universe that you're not supposed to be doing this. That is not what it's about. This is a sign basically that you're a badass. That it's working. When it... When it's... Yeah, when it shows up. It's only showing up because you are taking action If you don't take any action or actually make a decision, it doesn't need to show up, 'cause you're staying in your comfort zone.

So if it shows up, and, and this is some of the, the rigor in the work, is to first of all realize, like, "Oh, that's what's happening," right? And we, we, we wanna have that framework prior to going into the work, because when it comes up, it's gonna feel like it's, you know, you've been hit by a two-by-four. So you can kind of cognitively know it, but until you've actually navigated it a couple of times, you haven't yet developed the, the neuroplasticity, the nervous system, you know, kind of, um, safety to be able to work through it.

So when that shows up, and I see it a lot when someone's making a decision to invest in a coaching program, um, when they're maybe gonna, like, hire their first- Or even like get on a call Totally, right? Or they're gonna, like, hire their first team member, or they're, like, opening up a new branch of their business.

And it's gonna show up, and it's gonna be terrifying. So when you know, "Oh, this is actually what's happening here," what you need to do is reach out for help. So talk to your coach, right? If you've decided to s- as an example, invest in a program, reach out to that person that you wanna work with and get some support to walk you through it, because it's actually good news that it's showing up.

It's like... And it doesn't feel like good news in the moment at all. I realize that I've been there, done that many times, right? And now I can name it, "Oh, that's defcon." It still feels like a, you know, rag- bag full of rocks hitting my head, but you know what it is. So get support. And so Kelle, that was, like, a big ol'...

I've got some notes here. Oh yeah, and then also that thing around once you've made that decision, right? It's like learning to read. You can't ever not know how to read. There's that expression that ignorance is bliss. So once you know, you cannot un-know. And if you're listening to Kelle's podcast and you're in her world, it's because there is a calling within you to be in this work.

That's true. And you know, the, there's even... I, I get this all the time with people who are coming on discovery calls. They'll even get nervous for the call. They're like, "Oh, well, you know," or, "I have to wait for the..." Yeah, Jewel, y- you wanna talk about that for a second? Oh, I to- I, I was trying to unmute while I'm coughing and laughing hysterically at everything y'all are saying, 'cause I can relate to everything.

Um, oh, I was a, I was a nervous wreck. Are you kidding? You were Kelle Sparta. I've been listening to you on a podcast. You, like, know your shit, and, and call people on their shit. And I over here, here's little old me, that's the mindset I was in, calling, you know, for a discovery call. I'm like, "Oh my God. Oh my God, I'm talking to you.

Oh my God." I was freaking out. It's... And now looking back, that's the most hilarious thing I think I've ever experienced in my life, you know, full circle here. Um, but that was funny. That was so funny. And then Catherine, when you were talking about the, um, about the, you know, postponing it, we'll do it after Christmas, after the first of the year, after this, I'm like, "Oh my God, that is my mom."

And it's like I'm the universe going, "No, you need to do this now. You don't need to wait." And she's like, "No, I'm gonna wait till that goes on sale. I'm gonna wait till this." So that, that was quite interesting. Yeah. Well, and, and I hear this a lot actually. I, I have people who will, like, not show up for a discovery call, and then they're like, "I'm so sorry.

I just got so stressed out, and I just didn't, I didn't know what to do, and I didn't know how to get there, and or I couldn't find the link." And it's like, I... If somebody doesn't show up for a call, I will send them a link on text. I will send them a link on email. I will call them. I will... If they didn't get any of those, that's because their system was shutting down so hard that the electronics were fritzing around them, right?

And that happens. I can't tell you how many times that has happened. And, you know, these are the types of things, especially as I'm starting to work with people who are further along in their journey, who are spiritual practitioners. You know, th- in the beginning stages, you're doing the perspective shift stuff.

So, so the... Yes, there's an intimidation factor. There's a fear factor that can show up in the discovery call session, in the sign-up session, all of that, but it's not nearly as intense as if you're further along in the process and you're like, "Oh, I'm dealing with the assumption and belief level," and, "Oh, I'm dealing with the, you know, changing who I believe myself to be level."

That's when things really amp up. The further along you get in the journey, the more amped up it becomes, and it's literally to the point where... And this goes back, you guys have probably, if you've been listening to the podcast from the beginning, you've heard this many times. But, um- Every time I went to Lemons Gate, whi- which Cathy ran for many years before, uh, we started working together.

Um, every time I went to Lemons Gate, I would force a check on them the day that we were leaving the previous year's event for the next year. I would force a check on, on Cathy for the next year, and she's like, "I don't even know what it's gonna be. I don't even know if we're doing it." I'm like, "I don't care.

Take my money." And she was like, "Why?" And I'm like, "I want into the energetic." She's like, "The energetic doesn't exist yet." I'm like, "Yes, it does. It, it's the eternal moment of now. The energetic exists already, so take my money. I want in," right? And so, you know, and I did that because I was operating at such a level that the initiations were hard freaking core, and the longer I had to steep in that energy, the easier the transition became, right?

And I knew that inherently. I was like, "Nope, I wanna have all year to make this transition because this is gonna kick my ass," right? "And I would like my ass to not hurt as much when I'm done," right? And so that it, it... You know, I went there to get my ass kicked. That's what I wanted, right? 'Cause I, I couldn't do it for myself at the time.

And so, you know, this is, this is the way that this process works. And, you know, when you can embrace it and be conscious about it, then the DEF CONs don't feel so DEF CON-y, right? They, they, the... You can look at it and... You know, I've been known to look at the DEF CON energy in my life and go, "We are doing this.

Get on board or get out of the way, but you need to shut up and go away now," and just talk to it, and I have done that very often in my life. And so, you know, not to say that the person who inspired this conversation is right or wrong about whatever choices she may make, um, I'm, I'm just... It was an inspiration for the conversation, and so I wanted to mention it as we went through the process because everybody's got their own journey, and they, they are on their own paths, and they do what they wanna do, right?

Um, and wherever spirit takes them is where they go. But in this, it is important to recognize that as you're stepping into a significant connection and, uh, or you're stepping into s- a process that is going to impact you in a, in a significant way, then this stuff can and will show up And I use it as an indicator that this is where progress is, not as a sign that this is gonna suck, right?

So I just... I wanted to, uh, put it into the lexicon of the podcast so that you guys would know what to expect as you get into this level of work, and I've been waiting to talk about this because, you know, I couldn't talk about this in the first part of this- the, the podcast when we were talking beginners.

I didn't wanna scare people. But, you know, as you're getting further along, this is, this is the stuff. And again, it's not about whether it's good or bad, it's just about indicating the significance of the experience. And so... And, and I think there's, there's a lot of power in understanding that it's likely to come up, right?

And so, so when we say it's likely to come up, you don't want to make an agreement or set an intention that it will come up, right? You want... There's that neutrality there. But knowing that it's actually as you're stretching, as you're growing, every time you are leveling up into a new version of you, you're gonna cro- pass a comfort zone.

So when you create this next-level version of you, it's gonna settle in. You're gonna settle into it. It's gonna become your new normal. You're actually gonna stabilize there. And then once you've stabilized, there's gonna be another download from spirit about, "Ooh, I would love this next." And so that download is to support you in your growth, right?

And then when you're stepping past that comfort zone, there's gonna be some fear. There's gonna be maybe DEFCON, maybe not, but there's gonna be when you cross that edge, it's gonna show up. So just knowing, "Oh, this is what's happening. Okay, it's, it's not a sign. Doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong. It actually means I'm doing it right."

Mm-hmm. Right? I'm not in danger. Learning how to work with your nervous system to kind of calm it so that you can actually take that step that is in your highest, your highest good. Yeah. And I'm, I'm reminded of my early Reiki classes and when they would talk about, uh, uh, healing crisis And, um, a healing crisis is basically a mini version of DEFCON.

So, you know, that's another way of thinking about it. If you're, if you're Reiki trained and you know what a Reiki, what a, what a healing crisis is, that, that's, it- it's a version of initiation DEFCON sort of energy, right? So, you know, there's lots of different language for this process. And, uh, that's because it exists and, you know, you engage it and, and it may come and kick your ass or not, you know?

But how you, how you deal with it, how you engage it, how you respond to it, it makes a huge difference about how it impacts you. So, you know, again, the knowledge that it, it could happen, I mean, it's not something to dread, it's just information. It's like, oh, you know, uh, you know, and it doesn't happen every time.

It doesn't. But when it does, by God, you know, right? And, and now you've gotta know how to deal, and, you know, knowing that it's normal and not, like, some, you know, "Wee-oo, wee-oo, danger, Will Robinson, danger" thing happening, you know? That it's not that, it's just normal. The... That helps a lot. It helps a lot So, you know, forewarned, warned is forearmed, right?

And there's your Kelleism for the day. That's a wonderful Kelleism. I'm thinking knowledge is power. I keep seeing the cartoon, you know- Sure ... co- come across. Yeah. So. So yeah, so if you guys are, are interested in learning more about how to step into this work, I mean, that's ... We do a lot of this work in the WooU program.

We don't talk about that a lot on the podcast, uh, but that is the third program in the series where we're doing a lot of self-inquiry work and a lot of, uh, finding your gifts and things like that and, and mapping out your inner psyche, all of that. And so if you're at that stage where you've, you feel like you've got a solid container and you've got your monkey mind under control and you're just ready to do that shadow work, then the WooU program might be the thing for you.

And so, you know, sign up for a discovery call and come talk to me. And, um, you know, if you love what Katherine was talking about and you feel like that's a path for you and you're a female entrepreneur, we're gonna put a link in the show notes for Katherine's program and you can, can check her out as well.

Um, and what's your, what's your website, Katherine? It's, uh, katalystcoaching.com, so katalyst with a K, like Katherine with a K. And I'll also give you a link for a free meditation download, so it's a guided visualization meditation to help you actually tap into what is your vision for your life. So it's a great starting point.

We love that. That's awesome. Yay. Thank you. Well, that's all that we have for this week, folks. Tune in next time when Kelle adds another chapter into your guide to energy, magic, and the spirit world. I'm Jules, here with Kelle and Katherine, and you have been listening to Spirit Sherpa. So long, y'all. Bye.