In this episode of Salty Talks, we embark on a voyage to Hurricane Island, a hub of marine science and leadership located 12 miles off the coast of Maine. Join in as four remarkable women who have shaped and been shaped by their experiences at Hurricane Island share their personal journeys, revealing how this unique island has fostered community-driven science, leadership, and particularly, the empowerment of women in the field of marine science. From diving into the cold Atlantic waters to developing strong bonds in a collaborative environment, their stories are a testament to the transformative power of Hurricane Island. This episode is not just about scientific exploration; it's about breaking barriers, building lasting friendships, and making waves in marine conservation. Tune in for a look at how a small island can have a big impact on personal and professional growth.

Hurricane Island U1

Corinne

Welcome back to Salty Talks. I’m Corinne, your host and communications specialist at the Aquaculture Research Institute. today's episode, focuses on Hurricane Island, a unique gem sitting 12 miles off the coast of Maine.

Joining me today via Zoom are four women who have been part of Hurricane's journey, in both past and present. We delve into their experiences, uncovering how Hurricane Island stands as an example of how nurturing environments can be instrumental in fostering personal and professional growth. This is especially true in the world of marine science, where Hurricane has proven to be a crucible for empowering women, driving forward research that resonates with both the scientific community and the local populations.

Cait

Jessie

Bailey

My name is Bailey Moritz and I am currently the lead specialist for seaweed and shellfish farming at World Wildlife Fund's US office, where we're working to try to advance and expand the seaweed farming industry across North America and Europe, where it's underdeveloped at the moment. Recognizing that there's so many both environmental, climate and community benefits that come from farming seaweed and shellfish, so have a very global facing role at the moment. But I got started in this space in Maine, where I went to college at Bowdoin. I'd always been very interested in food systems because all my family are farmers in Minnesota, and I was sort of the outlier that lived out in Seattle on the coast and fell in love with the ocean. And so when I discovered that you could farm things in the ocean, I was hooked and found my way to Hurricane Island, where they were doing. You know, not only scallop fisheries research, but also turning that into aquaculture for scallops and incorporating kelp. And from there, I just fell in love with it and continued working for commercial Kelp nursery at Atlantic Sea Farms in Maine, and went on to do some international work in Madagascar and Belize with seaweed and other invertebrate farming.

Phoebe

Corinne

I first want to take us back a decade where Cait and Phoebe were pivotal to what hurricane has become today. Their early ideas laid a foundation of immersive learning and community driven research

Cait

Phoebe

Oh, yeah. No, no. Well, and I think that it's interesting to hear what Jessie and Bailey think about this too, because I think what is also kind of unique in a tone that continues to be set on the island is that we do like field ecology, and it's pretty cool. You know, we spend a lot of our time on both. I mean, don't I would say out of all of the time that we're on hurricane, you spend maybe 80. No, I'm sorry, you spend maybe like 10 to 15% of it inside. You know, we're outside. Everything that we're doing is on a boat. It's on an aquaculture site. It's on the dock sorting spat, you know, so our work really is based in place, you know? And for us, our work is really focused in and on the ocean, and we're really kind of deeply connected to it, not only through our research, but just in the, in the life that is led kind of on hurricane. And because of that, I've developed skills around what field ecology is. I've continued to develop a lot of what people consider in quotation marks. Right? Like hard skills, like driving a boat, scuba diving. I guess those are two that I do all the time. So that's what I think about all the time. But, you know, a lot of those parts mean even just like talking to people, there are people on the island all the time, and I think that it just provides it's provided a really unique environment for developing not only research skills, but education skills, communication skills, problem solving skills. You're living in community there. So we really had to create what that community meant for us. And you know, when Bailey and Jessie were there and I mean, there were 4 or 5 year round people, 8 or 9 seasonal employees in those years, and now we have 25. It's really interesting to kind of see that in those early years, especially some of the things that we put in place have been carried through. Like Kate said, the community driven research, our commitment to field ecology, our commitment to really training ourselves and other young scientists, young educators in place based education and research, which is pretty unique and has played a massive role in my life. And the questions that I ask ecologically and and in everything that I kind of do

Corinne

As Cait and phoebe talked about their early days at hurricane, their reflections on their scientific pursuits were not confined to the lab, but rooted in community, as well as among scallops and spat bags. These women made it clear that their work on Hurricane transcended traditional research boundaries, addressing real-world questions focused on fisherman and coastal communities – a practice beyond just data and numbers, but about our ecosystem and livelihoods.

Phoebe

When you're out there and you're moving scallops around, you're moving them from place to place. You're underwater, seeing what their underwater environment is like. You're raising them on an aquaculture farm. You're seeing them through the seasons just like a fisherman. You're out there experiencing it every day. And so they're you're gathering information in a different way, and you're doing it just by kind of the way that you're living and the necessity of the work that you have to do. And so certain questions come up. You know, I'm really interested in reproductive seasons and systems in scallops. And a lot of those questions came from the aquaculture farm, you know, and thinking about what biological effects might be occurring on scallops just from growing them in an aquaculture in an aquaculture setup as compared to their wild populations, the function of doing it every day and doing it so much, you're collecting data on a very regular basis, and that allows for a lot of environment rooted questions to to rise up and, you know, same thing with my Edna. I wouldn't have gotten to do the environmental DNA work, which is sampling on aquaculture farms if I wasn't already doing this work with aquaculture. You know, I sampled on three aquaculture farms for water samples and those people or other people that are growing scallops in Penobscot Bay and willing to partner with us. You know, I wouldn't be looking at the vertical distribution of scallop signal above a wild scallop bed if I didn't know where one was because we were diving on them, you know? So a lot of the work that we've been doing has just really kind of informed how to continue to do that work and ask new questions based on the environment that you're already working in.

Cait

Add something to that. Having established relationships with fishermen or scallop farmers. I think it's also played a role in shaping those questions like, yes, we're you know, when we were on hurricane, we were out there for six months of the year, but the scallop fishery takes place in the winter. And so, like knowing scallop fishermen and having them, you know, having a trusting relationship where we can exchange information freely, I think has also been really important in helping to shape the kinds of questions. And that's where I feel really confident in saying the types of questions that we were asking as part of the Hurricane Island research program were community driven, because they were coming from the fishermen themselves and coming from the farmers themselves.

Bailey

I really resonate with a lot of that think for me, starting at Hurricane Island in the research program while I was in college, I was coming from a place where I was. I cared about science, I loved science, but I was feeling a bit jaded by academia and seeing a lot of the research my professors were doing. You know, they were gathering data and it wasn't getting published till five years later and didn't really feel like in the face of a lot of the challenges that we're facing imminently, that it was having the impact I wanted to see. And so to come to hurricane and be able to be part of research projects that were, you know, understanding scallop populations for the fishery that was actively happening so that those fishermen could have a better understanding of what was taking place under the water, and to try to look at solutions through aquaculture for communities that needed alternatives. That was just so meaningful for me. It's something I've carried with me beyond my time at hurricane is hopefully everything that I'm working on. I really try to think about who the research is going to benefit the projects we're spending money on at World Wildlife Fund, who is that going to benefit? And hopefully it's the coastal communities and the fishermen and the farmers who it really should go to benefit and. I think another great thing about Hurricane Island was, as you were saying, Phoebe, you gain all of these hard skills. You're really you're out there living in some tough conditions. We were scuba diving in some pretty intense conditions. I learned how to drive a boat out on a hurricane. I got to know fishermen, you know, not beyond just professionally, but, like, became friends and felt, like, understood. I knew their lives. I knew their families. I got to see what it looks like to live out in a more remote Maine community. I think that in my role even now, World Wildlife Fund has given me a different level of rapport. When we go out as a, you know, huge environmental nonprofit coming and saying, you know, we want to fund these types of projects, we want to do this type of work. We want to partner with you. I get a really different response once fishermen and farmers and people in the aquaculture industry learn that, you know, I've had that background and I've been on the ground doing the hands on work and it just it just gives you a different level of respect and understanding with that community to to see things from their perspective and hopefully do research that will benefit them directly. And it also instilled this value in me of framing whatever you do, like learning how to communicate that to the public, because we had to do that every day, even when we were stressed about getting our data. If somebody pulled up to the dock, we talked to them about what we were doing, and it was always really fun to see people's reactions, to see their eyes light up when they learn that scallops have eyes or that they could swim. And that was really rewarding and has also driven me to find work and to do projects that aren't just happening in a bubble, but that are getting out to the communities, getting out to people who can be impacted by them and get everyone excited about this work together.

Jessie

I think a lot of what Bailey just said, I could have said the exact same thing, and I started a hurricane as an intern as well during my college years, but it was my first real experience doing field work and contributing to research that had maybe a larger purpose. And I think that was really eye opening for me. And show me like, oh, I can have a job that pays me to scuba dive and be out on boats. Like, that's pretty cool. And that wasn't an experience I'd ever seen. I think being out with fishermen on the water all the time, and we were. Out on these lobster boats with lobstermen and scallop draggers and starting at 4 a.m. and you just you get to know them. And I think especially in our political climate these days, where things are so polarized and people assume that everyone thinks one way or others might think a different way, and once you start talking to people, you realize that we all share so many similar beliefs are really care about the environment and the landscape that we're working in. I think that connects us so much more to both place and the importance of place based work and learning, but also to each other when we can hear concerns from either side. I think that actually allows us to think about what can we do to solve a problem, or think about how can we continue to diversify a fishery or whatever that may be. And I think that's something that our work on hurricane and working closely with fishermen and coastal communities really helped cement in my mind, and something I think about and keep in the forefront of my work.

Cait

You know, the other thought kind of on that, just starting a tenure track assistant professor position at Colby, the metric for me has now changed to publishing and research productivity, and that's not ever been the measure for me working in nonprofits. And I am I'm a little worried that, like, can I translate this community based approach to research into publications? And I feel really fortunate to have landed in, like in an interdisciplinary environmental studies department where, like, that's what they value. How do we message to the rest of the disciplines at Colby the value we place on community collaborations on other types of research products beyond the published journal article? ET cetera. But it's still like something that, you know, in street research. It isn't always readily accepted to do this interdisciplinary work, but hopefully that's changing.

Corinne

The narrative of hurricane island unfolds in its scientific pursuits, but also in its grounds for women in marine science - This unique environment has been predominantly influenced and led by women. They’ve not only contributed significantly to marine science but are also paving the way for empowerment and mentorship in a field where this isn’t always the case

Phoebe

Jessie

I would also say that starting on hurricane and having Kate be my first supervisor and mentor out there, and then I guess my last year out there had Phoebe and as my, you know, boss, which is funny to say. And now it's Phoebe and Kate are great friends and incredibly close colleagues, and we continue to work together and have a lot of fun together. But having that mentorship role of other women in this field to look up to was so important to me. I think as my career development continues to have those role models, which I think sometimes in some fields, and as a woman you might not see or might not have and be like, oh, I could do this. And there is space for me in this community. I think that's so hard with any identity you hold to kind of see that representation. And hurricane definitely had that in terms of great female role models to look up for, and we just had a ton of fun doing it too. It's whenever I'm out mountain biking or skiing. I ski with a lot of guys all the time. But whenever I'm with a group of gals like, we just have more fun. There's nothing like being on a lobster boat diving, and the four of us are just getting all the work done and just having a blast while doing anything. That's a pretty special thing that happened on hurricane and continues to happen for the most part today with the current team makeup.

Bailey

I think in addition to that, you know, Hurricane Island is a fairly public facing place, and Jesse and I spent a lot of time out on the dock counting scallops doing our work there. And not only did we get to do hands on lessons with every student group that came out to the island, but think it was also important for folks from the general public who would come on their sailboat and pull up to the island, and here were these young women scientists. And for them to see that work happening out on a main island, think was impactful for people to see that when they were just coming for a day to hike around hurricane, to get exposure to that

Jessie

kind of going back to the mentorship piece, like working on the docks or going down to a lobster wharf, can be a kind of intimidating place. And having. You know, and especially as a woman, maybe even more so, being able to watch how I mean, all three of you when I first started were already there and how you interacted and showed your confidence and your knowledge and like that really carried over to me. And, you know, it gave me the confidence to have those same interactions and develop those same relationships. And I don't know if I hadn't seen that in front of me. I don't know where I would have learned that. I don't think that's something that can be taught in the classroom.

Phoebe

Lots of goofy days on boats, Corinne. That's the point. Lots of snacks, lots of M&Ms, lots of Sour Patch Kids, lots of laughing and forcing fishermen to take pictures with us.

Corinne

It was clear talking to these women that Hurricane was and is a pivotal chapter in their lives. Given three of these women no longer work at hurricane I wanted to hear how their experiences on the island echoed into their current roles, shaping their perspectives and approaches in areas of marine science

Cait

The kind of research that hurricane you know, the approach, that community based approach is like what I'm continuing to do, and I kind of see the projects I'm generating in partnership with communities sort of closer to where I live now, which is down in Phippsburg, Maine. You know, I'm thinking about them sort of as like both having a marine ecology component, but then also doing some assessment of the social dimension. And so one example of that is like we're doing oyster reef restoration. You know, because of the growing aquaculture industry, there's more spillover, there's more intertidal oyster populations. There's definitely concerns from wild shellfish harvesters about those. And also, you know, some aquaculture farmers don't necessarily want them. So like I'm definitely still taking that same approach of like partnering with farmers and local communities and whatnot. And then just we're monitoring the ecological effects of building an oyster reefs. But then we're also going to explore the social dimension of that. The other thing I've taken away from hurricane, that I really hope to do with my classes is like hurricane was all about logistics, basically making it happen. You're going to get out in the field, you're going to figure out how to do it. So my goal with my classes is like, you know, get them out in the field, get them out on boats, get them down to the wharf, like get them talking to fishermen. Because I think one of the challenges with talking about complex environmental problems, it's so easy to like, read a theory or read a journal article and be like, oh, well, yeah, that's how we should address this. But then like, forget the nuance of like the people side of it or something like that, you know? So I'm teaching an environmental capstone class this semester. So that's all senior majors. It's a requirement. And they're meant to do like a research project from start to finish. So I have them working with the town of Phippsburg, helping them rewrite its comprehensive plan and incorporate climate change adaptation. So we've gone. Into the community a bunch of times, done interviews in the community. And all of that. And then in the spring, I'll teach like fisheries management and marine communities, which is more of an ecology class. And so obviously like working in field trips, going to the main fishermen's forum for a day, like really trying to get them to like experience the main coastal communities because it is so accessible here, which I think is just an incredible opportunity.

Jessie

I'll piggy back off of Kate and especially the logistical aspect of everything. I think I do a lot of fieldwork in my current role. A lot of our research is still very much based out on the water or on the mudflats. Working with Kate on the oyster restoration project. You know, no matter how well you can plan, field work or plan and experiment on the field, it never actually goes how you think it will. And problem solving skill set is so important. And that was every hour, every day on hurricane fieldwork in general. But then the added challenge that you're 12 miles offshore and everything becomes that much more complicated for even how do you get scuba tanks to the islands for your dive day the next day? And having that ability to kind of think through that and roll with the punches and make changes on the fly and that that's part of the work we're doing, I think is a in my paid job. But also, I think just in everyday life was a really valuable skill set that came off of hurricane and learning how to work with a wide range of partners and stakeholders and communicating to anyone who showed up to the dock. Like Bailey said, whether you wanted to or not, that carried on way outside of hurricane and definitely into my role today at management.

Bailey

For me, in my role now at World Wildlife Fund, I don't get to do as much of the hands on work that I used to do, but all of our projects feed into, you know, trying to support the seaweed and shellfish farming industry to grow honestly, largely because of the work I did at hurricane. Like said before, I feel like it. It gives me a different level of understanding for a lot of the stakeholders that we're working with, particularly the fishermen and fishermen farmers. While I was at hurricane, I got to help us apply for our aquaculture leases and actually went through the leasing application. And so it's been really instructive for me to look back on that as we're now trying to help make that process easier for people wanting to get seaweed and shellfish farming leases, you know, talking with with government officials and regulators looking at how this plays out in other parts of the country, in the world, I always kind of ground myself by looking back at like, what the what I needed to put on that lease application on hurricane. How long did that take? What were the environmental safeguards that the state had in place? Things like that, that I can now communicate back to the general public and also, you know, sympathize with what folks are going through as prospective farmers trying to start seaweed and shellfish operations and repeating again, kind of what I said before. I just think having that that skill set as someone in the non. Thought world. Think I find myself to be sometimes one of the only people in the room in some of these large nonprofit settings, who's worked on the water and who's, you know, worked at a commercial seaweed company growing seed for farmers and things like that. And it gives me a different level of ability just to speak to what needs to happen, what barriers the industry is facing, and to keep certain people in mind who are sometimes forgotten.

Corinne

Each of these women has navigated their careers with purpose, drawing lessons from their time on Hurricane Island. Their experiences, diverse yet intertwined, highlight how this unique island fosters a blend of scientific rigor, communal learning, and a deep connection to the marine world and each other.

Cait

I'm so grateful for the experiences hurricane provided me. If I look back on that time of my life, it was like it was a pretty incredible experience. And now I have lifelong friends and collaborators that I'm really, really grateful for.

Jessie

Yeah, I would say hurricanes are really special place, and I think anyone who has experienced the island, whether that was from Outward Bound days or now in, you know, the Hurricane Island Center for Science and Leadership recognizes that and kind of feels the magic of the island and the community and the work we were doing all contributed to that. And these are three other women right here on this call that are now some of my closest mentors and friends and colleagues, and even outside of the research team, my closest friends in Portland, Maine, most of them are from the Hurricane Island community. And that just speaks to how it brings people together. And you live offshore on an island for six months out of the year. You get pretty close to folks. So not sure where I'd be without having spent three years of my life working on hurricane, and I'm incredibly grateful for it.

Phoebe

Yeah, I mean, I'm still there. I think hurricane has provided a lot of space for growth, which I think is hard to find for me. I've been there for eight and a half years, and I feel like I've grown a lot as a human, as a collaborator, as a scientist, as an educator, as someone who's worked in in nonprofits, which is its own kind of world of wonders, by far the best part is what everyone has already spoken to is those relationships. It's pretty special to go to a place and see, you know, Caitlin, give a talk about the work that she's doing here. Jessie on the radio talking about her work with blue crabs and green crabs. See Bailey's picture on a webinar announcement talking about global impacts of seaweed aquaculture. Like, it's just it's pretty unbelievable to just kind of think about what I guess I'm considering, kind of like the humble beginnings of hurricane in this fostering space and then just seeing really everyone's just kind of flying high or swimming deep, you know, we're marine biologists, so we might as well take a, you know, a marine tack. But yeah, it's pretty special. And it's just a deep, deep connection that gets to continue. And it's one of the best things in my life for sure.

Bailey

Yeah I miss Hurricane Island days all the time. I find myself thinking back on it really frequently, even just that, you know, I think the Mile Island is a mile by a mile and a half or something. It's a very small space that, you know, for three years I was out there for 4 or 5 months straight. And it gives you this new appreciation for a sense of place that I feel like I never fully had growing up and really haven't been able to replicate in my life since, you know, to just to go out in hurricanes rowboat every evening and at low tide and row to the shores and see the way that different seaweeds were growing in different spots based on the wave energy, like it gave me more of, like an inherent sense of understanding of the environment that I was working in. And you get to see that change day to day when you're walking the same path to your cabin at night, every single day, or going on a walk around the island every morning, you just notice things because you're forced to. You're you're especially in my job now, which I love. But it's so globally focused, often reflect on and miss being able to just look at this one place and learn lessons from that community. And so I'm really, really grateful for the years I got to spend on hurricane. It was beyond special, and I'm really glad that I'm still in touch with Phoebe, Jessie and Kate and many others from hurricane is one of my favorite things.

Corinne

I had the pleasure of visiting Hurricane Island this summer and can definitely attest to what Cait, Phoebe, Jessie, and Bailey - it’s a special place, and a reminder that science when nurtured with nature and human connection can be an impactful force.