Welcome to the show, Jay Baer! The CX expert drops in on the show to talk about his latest book, The Time to Win. He also gives his riffs on AI, his process for building a book and collecting all those great stories and examples. That and more from a leading speaker on the marketing circuit and also one of the country’s top tequila influencers. Brian gets John’s reaction to the recent Wendy’s dynamic pricing news. John’s shoots for Mars with his Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.

Key topics & chapter markers 

(01:04): Oh, Wendy’s

(09:11): Jay Baer joins the show

(20:05): Responding quickly…but not too quickly

(27:16): Being fast doesn’t always mean being free

(37:36): How AI will impact customer experiences

(44:24): Chasing tequila 

(51:45): Hopefully Unattainable Rocket ships

Background content

Surge Pricing is Coming to More Menus Near You - Wall Street Journal

Wendy’s planning Uber-style ‘surge pricing’ where burger prices fluctuate based on demand - NY Post

No, Wendy’s Says It Isn’t Planning to Introduce Surge Pricing - NPR

Verizon’s new CX leader wants to quash customer pain points - Fierce Wireless

JayBaer.com

The Time to Win

The Time to Win - Amazon

Talk Triggers - Amazon

Tequila Jay Baer

Tequila Jay Baer - Instagram

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

Hey, John.

2

Welcome back.

3

John: Hey, hey, good to see you, Brian.

4

Brian: Good to see you.

5

Uh, I heard you moved

6

John: I moved.

7

Nothing, nothing like a good

move to cleanse your heart,

8

your soul, and your house.

9

Brian: a good, uh, buyers

and sellers experience.

10

John: all things considered,

it was a relatively smooth

11

experience, but I'm tired.

12

Tired and disorganized.

13

Brian: I think everybody I've talked

to that moves says I'm not moving

14

again ever for the rest of my life.

15

Full stop.

16

John: Those words may have escaped

my lips a few times in the past week.

17

Die in this house and then

you can just set it aflame.

18

Brian: Well, I think, uh, speaking

of experiences, , we have a

19

really good show today that really

gets into, consumer experience.

20

John: Yes.

21

Brian: And, , our guest, , Jay Baer

is an expert in consumer experience

22

and CX and, um, business growth.

23

And so really excited to talk to him.

24

before we do that, I want to hop

in here and talk about some news

25

we're seeing, , on technology

relating to the consumer experience.

26

So, recently on an investor call, Wendy's.

27

The fast food chain announced plans

next year to release new technology that

28

would help facilitate dynamic pricing,

so that local stores could change menu

29

costs as they needed or wanted to.

30

News outlets jumped all over this and

started touting it as surge pricing, you

31

know, kind of like when Uber or airline

jacks up costs when demand is the highest.

32

John: they sure did.

33

Brian: Yeah, and so not surprisingly,

there's an immediate backlash

34

and concerns of price gouging.

35

Inflation, obviously, as well,

has been a serious concern for

36

people everywhere, so the timing

of this could not have been worse.

37

Jokes flew around social media

that the only time to go to

38

Wendy's would be between 2 and 4 p.

39

m.

40

And, uh, according to the New

York Post, Wendy's now ranks

41

already as the most expensive fast

food chain in the United States.

42

John: Oh,

43

Brian: After already inflating

their, um, menu costs 35 percent

44

over the last couple of years,

45

and, one more not surprising thing.

46

immediately, Wendy's tried

to clarify what it had meant.

47

They said that they would not be

implementing such type pricing with

48

this new technology or would they change

prices when demand is the highest?

49

Instead, they were saying that,

they would attempt to bring in new

50

customers by actually lowering prices

or offering specials when demand is

51

low, ultimate spin spin zone here.

52

John, So, what do you think the takeaway

is here for brands as they look to

53

improve their business through technology?

54

And, should consumers trust how brands

continue to evolve and grow, uh, their

55

businesses and as they use technology?

56

John: right.

57

Well, first of all, I think the

brand should stop using technology

58

to manufacture hype before they've

thought through how they're actually

59

going to use it, which I think

was the case here with Wendy's.

60

And there's a real corporate

communications lesson

61

to be learned in this.

62

, when you called my attention to this, I

went back and I read the original quote,

63

which was from the CEO, Kirk Tanner,

during that quarterly earnings call.

64

And he said, beginning as early as

65

enhanced features like dynamic

pricing and day part offerings.

66

Of course, everyone would

interpret, quote, dynamic pricing

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and day part offerings to mean

surge pricing's coming, right?

68

And Corporate Communications 101 would

have told them to manage that message.

69

So either, you know, their Corporate

Communications team did say, Don't say

70

it like this or the CEO ignored it.

71

I would guess or they actually

were planning to do surge pricing.

72

So what a what a mess.

73

I guess , if the intention was actually

about getting smart around offering

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day part discounts, that's great.

75

But if they were seriously considering

turning their menu into a Russian roulette

76

of pricing, I think that's stupid.

77

That whole concept is just at odds

with what I would say is the core

78

promise of any fast food restaurant,

which is predictability, right?

79

Promotions, cool.

80

Everyone does that, right?

81

Let's get people into

stores when stores are slow.

82

Brian: Yeah.

83

What they weren't doing was A system

that automatically changes the price.

84

I mean, they were definitely giving local

stores more control over the ability

85

to change price, which they already do.

86

I mean, like the cost of a hamburger at

a Wendy's in New York costs different

87

than a hamburger in South Carolina.

88

So, it's not like they're going

to be sitting in in headquarters,

89

surgically changing prices by the

minute based off the amount of cars

90

that are in the drive through line.

91

So, I don't know that they were

going full Uber on this, but,

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the look of this is brutal.

93

So, like you said, uh, this is not

a good look for their communications

94

team, which by the way, was probably

saying exactly what you were saying

95

and they probably get rid of the rules.

96

John: Yeah, that's my guess.

97

Alright, so can I pivot to another

story that I noticed that's about

98

that idea of using technologies

to improve a customer experience?

99

Brian: Sure.

100

John: Sure.

101

Alright.

102

I just saw that Verizon One of America's

favorite punching bags, just created

103

a new chief customer experience

officer role for someone named Brian

104

Higgins and recruited a Walmart

executive, Dory Butler SV as SVP of CX.

105

Now, I don't know Brian or

Dory, but congratulations

106

and good luck to them both.

107

That is a big, big and

probably thankless job.

108

So Ryan, thinking about Verizon in the

past, how, in your mind, how have they

109

traditionally positioned themselves?

110

What are they focused on?

111

Brian: Network quality.

112

John: Correct.

113

Well, these moves are intended

to make customer experience, also

114

a competitive differentiator.

115

, just like they did around network quality.

116

So, Verizon has now brought all of its

customer care teams together under one

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department, which I kind of thought

they would have done a while ago,

118

but good that they're doing it now.

119

, and they're saying that nearly 75% Of

their customer care calls are small,

120

but kind of annoying issues that came

from some sort of, you know, small

121

break in their customer experience, and

they're saying that a I will play a big

122

role in Verizon's customer care event.

123

So with all the news and the

commotion around AI these days,

124

I think this is where there's

some really interesting promise.

125

So according to, This new head of customer

experience, there are more than 10, 000

126

articles in Verizon's knowledge base

that provide informational promotions or

127

problems that a customer may be having.

128

So AI can synthesize all that info

and deliver it to the customer

129

service reps in real time.

130

and personally, I love the

idea of talking to a human who

131

understands what I'm looking for.

132

And has AI in the background,

helping them focus on being more

133

helpful, empathetic, and, expert.

134

And if they got 10, 000 articles at their

disposal, though, that's getting clearly

135

synthesized by AI, they'll be more expert.

136

Brian: Yeah.

137

Well, let me just say one

thing about AI, and I love it.

138

And that's great, but they

couldn't be doing this without AI.

139

Like AI can just make it go faster.

140

If they have those

141

John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Brian: Throwing the AI on top

of this to make it prettier and

143

put a nice little bow on it.

144

Some lipstick is great.

145

.

John: You think it's just you think it's just prettifying it

146

Brian: Well, I mean, it'll make it go

faster, but at the same time, like, why

147

couldn't they have already been using

the database of all these articles?

148

I

149

John: well because because the database

of the articles sure it's there but having

150

something really quickly figuring out

what my problem is and what's unique about

151

my problem and based on all the archives

pull the right exact information for me is

152

something I think you're asking an awful

lot of customer service rep who maybe went

153

through a, you know, Few weeks or months

of training and it's new to the job.

154

Brian: I mean, look, if you want to be a

Verizon apologist about that, that's fine.

155

It shouldn't be that difficult.

156

A lot of these things

are internal problems.

157

And so, yeah, can you get an AI to

help feed them the answers quickly?

158

Yes.

159

But you're enabling people to not do

the extra work to understand , what

160

the problems are to begin with, but

161

John: Well, yeah.

162

And I would argue that if you've talked

to, many organizations, customer service

163

reps, you realize they haven't been

properly trained and they don't have

164

all the information at the fingertips.

165

So if that means I get less frustrated

and I spend less time screaming,

166

uh, at a, at a phone tree, cool.

167

Uh, and I would have to say, I think

that's the first time anyone has

168

ever called me a Verizon apologist.

169

Brian: that is, is working towards you

trying to improve the experience is great.

170

I like that they're bringing the teams

together, which, you know, Ted, why

171

didn't that happen in 2000, but Hey.

172

You bring it in new people.

173

They're coming up with new ideas

and I'm sure there's a good reason

174

why they were separate, but,

175

John: well, you've been in corporate

America, you know, they probably

176

were together and then they got

separated and then we got pulled

177

back together and separated and

now they're back together again.

178

Brian: completely.

179

all right, well, from there,

let's go to our guests.

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John: he's gonna be so

much more interesting than

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me, the Verizon apologist.

182

Brian: Uh,

183

I'm beyond excited to introduce,

our guest for today's episode.

184

He's an expert in customer

experience and business growth.

185

He's a researcher and author,

a founder, a podcaster.

186

He's in the professional speakers

hall of fame, a top 30 global

187

guru in CX and internet marketing.

188

He's my favorite keynote at a conference.

189

You're going to love him.

190

He's relatable, he's

funny, and he makes sense.

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His past books like Utility, Hug

Your Haters, and Talk Triggers

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are companions for every marketer.

193

His latest book is called The

Time to Win, which focuses on

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businesses taking advantage of

speed of service while they can.

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And I don't want to leave this out.

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He's now a major tequila influencer.

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So let's invite in some

conversation with Jay Baer.

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Jay, we're so happy to

have you on the show today.

199

John: Hey, Jay.

200

Jay: be here.

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Hey everybody.

202

How you doing?

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Thanks for having me on the show.

204

John: Thanks for joining us

205

Brian: Yeah, I really appreciate it.

206

So, let's get into this

book, the time to win.

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You know, businesses today face

so many challenges to reach

208

and interact with customers.

209

We always talk about the amount

of noise and distractions today.

210

There's too much going

on in everybody's world.

211

You're focused on responsiveness

for businesses and the

212

need to build a Sure of it.

213

So it's so important if you don't act

quickly, you're going to miss out.

214

The value of time is, uh, incomprehensible

and, if you don't do this right, how can

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customers even trust you to do the job

216

Jay: Yeah.

217

I mean, you've probably heard the

phrase good, fast, cheap, pick any two.

218

It's pretty common business parlance.

219

You know, doesn't really work anymore

because you can decide whether

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you want to be cheap and fast.

221

Or quality and fast, but fast is non

negotiable, generally speaking, right?

222

That's one that you kind

of have to do that one.

223

And then you can pick whether

you want to be the, you know,

224

you want to be Jiffy lube, right?

225

Or you want to be, uh, you

know, the opposite, which

226

is emergency plumber, right?

227

It's going to, you know, they'll

come, they'll come Sunday night.

228

But it's going to cost you, right?

229

Speed is no longer kind of an

optional exercise for most businesses.

230

And, and look, I wrote the book just

when AI, um, as we currently think

231

about it was, was breaking and the

implications for AI on expectations

232

around response are going to be.

233

Overwhelming, right?

234

I mean, it just everything can happen so

much faster without human intervention.

235

And so the culture is going to ratchet

up even more around speed expectations.

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John: Yeah.

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And Jay, before we go too much

further, I just have to say thank

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you for writing a business book

that is consumable in an hour.

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If I have a

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Jay: it.

241

I mean, the book is only like,

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words or something, right?

243

John: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jay: to do it that way, John.

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I've written six other business books

that are like, you know, traditional size.

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And I started writing this one.

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I'm like, wait a second, hold on.

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I can't write a full length

business book that requires the

250

reader to invest five or six hours.

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What's the book about speed.

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That doesn't, it doesn't

make any sense, right?

253

It's like the exact opposite of

the advice contained in the pages.

254

Uh, so I'm like, wait a second.

255

What if.

256

I wrote a very short book that you

can read in under an hour that has

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all the meat and none of the fat.

258

And it's actually been a really

interesting lesson, like how that

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book is merchandised and sold and

everything has been much different,

260

of course, than a regular book.

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But people love it.

262

Especially at events because you know

what sucks when you go to a conference

263

and they give you like the hardcover

book from the keynote speaker and then

264

you're trying to hold a book in one hand

and like drink a Chardonnay in the other

265

hand and like shake hands with your third

hand like it's a very complicated dance.

266

So this book is so small you put

it in your shirt pocket your jacket

267

pocket your handbag whatever.

268

Uh, I will say this, however,

and I, and I, I learned this.

269

It's late and a hard way.

270

It is a very hard book to sign

because it's so small and it's soft

271

cover that it's hard for me to open

it and hold it open and sign it.

272

So that, that part has actually been

a little bit of a hassle, but other

273

than that, it's been successful

and I would do it again because you

274

know, look, I'm, I'm not ashamed to

admit that most people, including me,

275

don't actually read business books.

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Yeah.

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John: finished one.

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Jay: And they skim up and why not?

279

Because I'm guilty of this too, right?

280

In the first chapter, here's my thesis.

281

And then you repeat that thesis 11 more

chapters in a slightly different way.

282

Right.

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And that's just the nature of it.

284

Right.

285

But, but publishers trust me, cause I

worked with all the major publishers.

286

They want that book to be 225 pages or

longer because that's the standard size

287

that actual physical bookstores require.

288

You know, this, we're writing books

this length because bookstores want

289

them to be wide enough to be shelved.

290

Like, is that the tail

wagging the dog or what?

291

Brian: seriously?

292

Jay: Well, I mean, look, I, I am an

author and I love books and I read books

293

every day, but the last time I went to

a physical bookstore it's been a bit.

294

Brian: Yeah.

295

Did you have to have a rule in your head?

296

Like, you know, sell yourself on keeping

something in or did you just kind of

297

create an outline and just sparsely.

298

Jay: It's funny, uh, actually I did it

the same way, Brian, that I do all my

299

books actually, just with more rigor.

300

So I, write books in a process that

is not unique, but certainly unusual

301

compared to most business authors

in that I will write a speech.

302

I go out and do that speech 25 or

40 times and then once I have the

303

speech dialed, then I write the book

304

John: Interesting.

305

Yeah, that's

306

Jay: a couple of reasons.

307

John: That's backwards

for most people, right?

308

Jay: Absolutely backwards.

309

Uh, and I do it for a couple of reasons.

310

One, it makes the book flow better

because it's got a narrative.

311

It's got a beginning, a middle and an end.

312

The way speech has a

beginning and middle and end.

313

But the real reason I do it.

314

I am allergic to using examples

that people have heard of before.

315

So you'll never hear me talk about

Amazon or Starbucks or Apple or

316

anything like that in any book I

ever write because it's so axiomatic.

317

It's just boring, right?

318

So, what I do is as I'm working out

this material, In every speech, I

319

say, hope you enjoyed today's program.

320

If you've got any examples of a company

that is faster than you expected them

321

to be, or slower than you wanted them

to be, please, please, please, uh,

322

come see me right after I finished.

323

Cause I'm collecting

stories for my new book.

324

And so almost all the stories that

I have in almost all my books came

325

from audiences who, who saw me speak

or like, oh, I've got an example.

326

And that's why I've got all

these weird, different industries

327

from all over the world.

328

And so in this case, all

I did was the same idea.

329

I just didn't add more stuff.

330

It was like, okay, instead of one example,

instead of five examples, let's do one.

331

So essentially it's the

same format of a book.

332

I just didn't add all the extra

ornaments on a Christmas tree.

333

Brian: got it.

334

I love your examples.

335

Uh, I feel like they always

really reinforce your points

336

John: Oh, yeah.

337

The best smelling plumber in Los Angeles?

338

Jay: Yeah.

339

Mike diamond, Mike diamond

plumbers, smell good plumbers.

340

That's on every truck.

341

The funny thing about Mike diamond

plumbers is if you go to Google

342

and search Mike diamond plumbers

and look at their reviews.

343

Like all the reviews, like

he really did smell good.

344

Like it's, it is, it is hilarious.

345

They have a house cologne.

346

They literally have a house cologne,

uh, for, for their plumbers.

347

When you, when you get a job there,

they give you a little bottles.

348

Like, this is what you're going to wear.

349

John: So is that an example of

something that came from one

350

of your audience members or is

that something you experienced

351

Jay: So that particular example

came from Daniel Lemon, who co

352

authored Talk Triggers with me.

353

Daniel, uh, is an amazing thought

leader and, and has some other books

354

of his own as well and, and worked very

closely with me as my head of strategy

355

at my consulting firm for many years.

356

He lives in Los Angeles and

so he literally needed a

357

plumber, Mike Diamond plumbers.

358

And he's like, wait, the Smogon plumber.

359

And I'm writing a book

about word of mouth.

360

Amazing.

361

That, that, that example, like fell

into our lap, out of the sky, which

362

are, which sometimes are the best ones.

363

Brian: Of all the tidbits you've gotten

from like local companies and things for

364

your books, which one's your favorite?

365

Jay: Oh, geez.

366

I've never been asked that before.

367

And it's kind of

368

Brian: Like thousands of them, so I

369

John: Yeah, just just

pick from a catalog of

370

Jay: I mean, I, I would say probably

the one that I go back to the most

371

often, because I think it resonates with

people, is, is Skip's Kitchen, which is

372

the, the restaurant in Sacramento, where

when you order your meal, They fan out a

373

deck of playing cards face down in front

of you and you pick a card and if you

374

get a joker, your entire meal is free.

375

use that story a lot because it's

so easy to execute for businesses

376

and it doesn't matter whether

you're in the restaurant business or

377

you're a chiropractor or whatever.

378

People understand the power.

379

Of that technique and how and why

it generates so much goodwill and so

380

much word of mouth for that business.

381

So I tend to use that example.

382

Because people really get it.

383

They're like, Oh, that is cool.

384

Oh, I understand how I

could possibly do that, etc.

385

Brian: that's cool.

386

Jay: But I have a whole database.

387

That's how I do it.

388

So I collect all the

389

Brian: Yeah.

390

Jay: And then I tag them.

391

So I have a whole like tagging system.

392

And so we tag them by B2B versus

B2C, big company, small company.

393

Is it word of mouth?

394

Is it customer experience?

395

Is it bad customer experience?

396

Um, et cetera.

397

You're kind of what's the shtick.

398

And then is it USA?

399

Is it Canada?

400

Is it international?

401

So.

402

When I get an assignment to do an

event, like I'm doing one for Bobcat,

403

um, the heavy equipment company in two

weeks, I can go into the database and

404

say, all right, what, what material

do I already have that might be

405

most appropriate for this industry?

406

And then if I don't feel like I've got

gold, then I'll go find some stuff.

407

Brian: That's, that's great.

408

I was doing some research last night and,

my kids were like, what are you doing?

409

And I showed them the, um,

the pasta playlist on Spotify

410

Jay: Isn't that amazing?

411

John: So cool.

412

Brian: Yeah.

413

Can you, can you tell that one real fast?

414

Jay: That's a relatively new one, um, that

they haven't been doing it too long and

415

I haven't been talking about it too long.

416

The thing about pasta is when you

make it perfectly it's perfect, but

417

when you make it imperfectly it sucks.

418

And what people don't understand very

often about dried pasta is that, of

419

course, there are many different shapes.

420

You got penne, you got

spaghetti, you got rigatoni, etc.

421

And they each have different densities.

422

Consequently, you really should

change your cook time slightly

423

based on the density of the

dried pasta that you're using.

424

But nobody talks about this

and nobody writes it down.

425

And so, um, Barilla, which is either

the first or second largest provider

426

of dried pasta, I'm not certain.

427

Was doing a lot of social

media, listening as you should.

428

And they realized that people were

like, sometimes aggravated about

429

the pasta, not coming out, right.

430

Undercooked, overcooked.

431

They're like, huh, how could we fix this?

432

So they, they went to Spotify and they

created a series of custom playlists.

433

One for spaghetti, one for

rigatoni, one for penne, et cetera.

434

So the way it works is

you boil your water.

435

As soon as the water is at a

rolling boil, you hit play,

436

you put the pasta in the water.

437

And the playlist is a whole

series of kind of Italian songs in

438

keeping with the theme of pasta.

439

The second the playlist is concluded,

last song is over, you take the pasta out

440

of the water and it is perfectly cooked

for that particular shape of pasta.

441

And hundreds of thousands of people

have downloaded these playlists.

442

I just think it's, of course,

doesn't cost anything.

443

It's just a really good example

of transcending the transaction,

444

which so much good marketing

really is rooted in that principle.

445

Brian: Yeah, it's, it's a

great experiential thing.

446

Just, you know, you're cooking pasta,

you're playing the Italian music.

447

John: Yeah, that's a it's a great example.

448

Jay, we go back to my talk

about your most recent book.

449

You talk about some examples where.

450

Too fast is a problem.

451

You know, you, you, obviously you, you

make the compelling case for businesses

452

need to evolve to become faster at

delivering great experiences, but too

453

fast is not what you want if you're going

to a tattoo artist and, and, and nothing

454

Jay: yeah, yeah,

455

or an eye, or an eye surgeon, or any

number of things, or a divorce attorney.

456

Um,

457

John: And you also talk about some of

the ways companies are kind of pretending

458

to take their sweet time to deliver

a thoughtful answer to, like, a chat

459

question, right, where you get little dots

or even, you know, you hear the little,

460

if you're on the phone call, you hear the

little do do do do do, you know, like, I'm

461

thinking, uh, even though AI is spitting

it out pretty much instantaneously.

462

Yeah.

463

Jay: yeah.

464

It's interesting, the reason I wrote

this book, well the reason I write

465

all books that I write is, is, I see

what I think is a pattern or a trend

466

or an opportunity for businesses

to outperform their competition.

467

And then I researched that trend,

doing a lot of first party research,

468

which costs me a ton of money, but you

know, I'm not just going to stand on

469

a stage and tell you to do something

if I'm just, I don't have any proof.

470

So as always, I did a bunch

of research on this topic.

471

And my thesis was coming

out of the pandemic, we care

472

about time more than ever.

473

And, and that how we use time.

474

is more precious to us

than it was pre pandemic.

475

And, and all these trends that we

were talking about in the early post

476

pandemic days, great resignation,

people working from home, not wanting

477

to commute, et cetera, all this stuff.

478

I was like, this is all the same trend.

479

Like this is all the same trend, which

is we care about time more than ever.

480

You can call it whatever you want.

481

And there's different

manifestations of that trend.

482

But the trend is that we care

about time more than ever.

483

I wonder if that's actually true

or I just think it's true and I did

484

the research and it is in fact true.

485

Two thirds of customers now say

that speed is as important as price.

486

And so the reality is when I talk

about this in the book and on stage

487

when I'm asking businesses to do It's

not overhaul your entire business.

488

It's elevate speed on your

list of priorities because

489

your customers already have.

490

And if you do that, all the data show that

customers will be happier, more loyal,

491

will literally spend more money, will

tell more people about your business,

492

like all the things you're trying to

achieve, will work if you're just faster.

493

But, the point is true,

like, you can't take that.

494

Dogma because there are circumstances

where you can be too fast and we are too

495

fast What happens is it decays trust?

496

so if you if you call a Surgeon,

you're like hey, I need to have

497

this thing cut out of my shoulder.

498

You're like cool What are you

doing in the next five minutes?

499

You'd be like, wait a second, this,

500

John: Why are you free right now to

501

Jay: you are too available.

502

This concerns me, right?

503

So there's a very tight relationship

that we studied in the book, um,

504

between time expectations and trust.

505

So what you want in every business is, is

in every interaction with every customer.

506

It's like the Goldilocks

zone for responsiveness.

507

It's the perfect amount of elapsed time.

508

And we call it the right now.

509

The right now is the, like, perfect spot.

510

And it's certainly not too slow,

because people hate to wait.

511

But it's also not too fast,

because then they're like, Wait a

512

second, this is gonna be terrible.

513

So, the right now, the magic

formula, is to be slightly faster

514

than customers expect you to be.

515

So my, uh, this is not an example

that you guys have heard because

516

it's not in the book or anything is

one of my friends, uh, good friends

517

is an airline pilot for American.

518

And he's the master of this slightly

faster than customers expect.

519

When he gets something in his headset

from air traffic control that says,

520

Captain Mendler, there's a plane

behind you can't back out of the gate.

521

12 minute delay.

522

He goes on the intercom says,

Hey, welcome to America airlines

523

flight, whatever, from San Diego to.

524

to Dallas.

525

I just heard from air traffic control.

526

There's a plane behind us.

527

We can't back out just yet.

528

they're expecting a 15 minute delay.

529

So then when air traffic control gets

back to him, he says, okay, you're,

530

you're, you're, you're clear to move back.

531

And it's only been 11 minutes.

532

He gets back on the intercom and

says, okay, ladies and gentlemen, I

533

told you 15, but it's only been 11.

534

We're backing out now.

535

Can't wait to have a great flight.

536

Right.

537

And everybody's like psyched, right?

538

They still had to wait 11 minutes,

but they're fired up because it's

539

an expectations game more so than

a raw speed game in some cases.

540

John: And you talk about, that expectation

game and going back to the idea of

541

trust Obviously, speed is critical,

but there are times when there's a

542

reason for it taking a certain time

that might be longer than the customer

543

expectation, but addressing that

expectation up front saves the day.

544

Can you talk a little more about that

idea of, you know, being up front

545

about how long things are going to take

versus informing them on the back end?

546

Jay: Yeah.

547

And that's the, the, the latter is how

business has been operated for a long

548

time, which is if you miss a deadline,

you apologize afterwards, right?

549

And you sort of take the hit.

550

, now that two things are true, one,

people care about time more than ever.

551

And two, people aren't nearly as

good, especially young consumers,

552

aren't nearly as good at

accepting that because we said so.

553

Right.

554

I mean, it's just, they just

don't, they, they want to know why.

555

And partially it's the rise

of the internet, right?

556

Like information and knowledge is

all around us like air in these times

557

in a way that it wasn't in the past.

558

I was having this conversation

with my wife the other day.

559

We were watching something Grammys.

560

I can't remember exactly.

561

And, and Cher was on I

was like, how old is Cher?

562

She's like, I don't know.

563

Like, we, we really didn't know.

564

John: You've been the

same age for 40 years.

565

Jay: yeah, it looks the same for sure.

566

Uh, so I just grabbed my phone,

you know, Siri, how old is Cher?

567

Uh, and I think it's 78.

568

Hold on, let me check.

569

Hey Siri, how old is Cher?

570

We're reenacting it for the podcast.

571

77, 77.

572

and that surprised me a little bit.

573

And then I thought, you know, When we

were first married, if we wanted to

574

know how old Cher was, we would have

had to get in the car, we would have

575

to drive to the library when it's open,

we'd have to meet with a reference

576

librarian, who presumably, would

have a book of celebrities and their

577

birthdates, and that reference librarian

would help us find the piece on Cher,

578

now, that would have taken,

I don't know, two hours?

579

Brian: Yeah.

580

Jay: And no,

581

John: the right window, it would

582

Jay: yeah, and

583

no,

584

John: you would have had to wait.

585

Jay: no sane or employed person

would, would spend that kind of time.

586

And so you know what we did in those days?

587

It was a, it was a novel concept.

588

We would just say, I don't know.

589

That information is evidently unknowable.

590

And we were totally okay

591

John: again, that was good enough for us,

592

Jay: People are not okay

with I don't know anymore.

593

So if you're going to disappoint them,

or you're going to bait and switch

594

them intentionally or unintentionally,

or you're going to confuse them,

595

whatever, you just have to explain it.

596

And you have to explain it in a way

that satiates their need to know.

597

You proactively inoculate against

people's ire around time, as opposed

598

to hoping for the best on the back end.

599

Brian: uh, I can't tell you how many,

uh, parties always ended with arguments

600

around what, you know, what was the

answer to a question and you just, it's

601

great, or you thought somebody was a

genius and you just didn't know, you

602

know, that's so much easier to have

conspiracy theories back then, cause you

603

just had to be like, is that really true?

604

Right.

605

Jay: about bar bets.

606

There's no books about bar bets now.

607

I just ask my phone.

608

Brian: Right.

609

You're quick to also say that, being

fast doesn't always mean being free.

610

And so everybody, uh, knows about the

concept of, you know, the fast pass

611

from Disney, uh, you have some cool

examples about how other companies are

612

employing convenience in exchange , for

additional fees and things like that.

613

Jay: Yeah.

614

You know, and at first, when I started

thinking about this, I believed it to

615

be really a, a, a technique for solving

your own Kind of volume problems that

616

that, you know, Disney Disney parks in

particular are trying to even out the flow

617

of guests so that it's not a stampede.

618

And consequently, you do a fast pass.

619

They call it genie plus.

620

Now, at one point, it's called

lightning lane, I believe.

621

And so the idea is that you pay an extra

fee and you get to enter the park earlier.

622

Beer festivals sometimes do this, they

have an hour before a general admission

623

that costs a little bit more and you get

access to beers without a huge crowd, etc.

624

And so I always thought about that

premise in the context of physical

625

events and crowd management.

626

But then I started thinking about we

mentioned it earlier kind of the the

627

emergency plumber kind of folks right

like and it's because I had an emergency

628

plumber and I was like, well, wait a

second, you know, I needed them to come

629

out Sunday night and they're like, sure,

but we're going to charge you more.

630

And I thought, well, that's weird.

631

Why isn't there like an emergency deli?

632

Like, why isn't there?

633

You know, why?

634

Why can't you?

635

You know, if, if, if I care that much

about it, why can't I pay more to get

636

whatever I want whenever I want it?

637

And I started to, to research this and,

and in the, in the, in the big research

638

project that underpins the book, The

Time to Win, which you can get on Amazon.

639

The book's only like

9 cause it's so small.

640

and what we found was that one in

four customers will pay as much as 50

641

percent more to in four customers will

pay as much as 50 percent more to not

642

wait and, and, and for whatever reason.

643

Um, they, they procrastinated.

644

Um, they got more money than

they probably should have.

645

They just want stuff now.

646

There's a lot of reasons

why that might be the case.

647

But that is a colossal

financial opportunity.

648

And not just for emergency plumbers.

649

And so then I started to collect

other stories of people doing it.

650

And in fact, it's been great.

651

Um, as I've toured this presentation

around the world, a lot of people

652

have come up to me in the events

and be like, Oh yeah, I do that.

653

So, you know, there's like a

chiropractor in Dallas who does the

654

late night, your back's messed up.

655

I'll, you know, I'm going to

charge a double, but I can fix it.

656

There's a guy who sell, he has

a store retail store that sells,

657

um, fancy pens, like writing

instruments and stuff in New Jersey.

658

And a lot of his customers are

buying business gifts or gifts

659

for their boss, et cetera.

660

And they always seem to wait

to the last minute and like,

661

Oh, I need a gift for my boss.

662

I'm going to get a pen.

663

Oh, but his birthday's tomorrow.

664

Can you FedEx it for me?

665

And he's always passed

along the FedEx fee.

666

But I said, well, are you

charging extra for this?

667

Like instantaneous, you

know, pen, shopping.

668

He's like, no.

669

And I'm like, well, that sounds like

a fast pass that you should institute.

670

And he has now and it's,

and it's going great.

671

So almost every business can

do this, can offer a fast pass.

672

And I realize now I sold my

consulting firm a couple of years

673

ago, but man, I'm so stupid.

674

I should have been doing it the

whole time because we would have, we

675

would literally have big companies

stacked up like planes on a runway.

676

Waiting for us to work on strategic

plans for them and a big company like

677

a CVS would call me like hey Can you

do our strategic plan and we'd be like,

678

yeah But we can't start for three months

because we got other people in the queue.

679

And what I should have said is hells

Yeah, it's just gonna be an extra 20

680

percent surcharge and then you can be

next and then and then people I say Well,

681

what happens to the one that was gonna

be next we have to bump down and here's

682

how you do it We're going to charge

you 20 percent more for you to be next.

683

And then the one that you bump

down, you say, Hey, terribly, sorry.

684

we had an emergency client come in.

685

It's going to delay your project

for three weeks, but we're going

686

to give you a 10 percent rebate.

687

You okay with that?

688

Sure.

689

So you make 20, you give

back 10, you profit 10.

690

And all you're doing is

changing your sequence,

691

John: changing the order.

692

Jay: serving number 67, uh, you know,

and then you're serving number 65.

693

John: Well, thank you again, because

Brian and I were talking about this, uh,

694

a client we have yesterday and, and we

think there's a really good recommendation

695

to be made very much along these lines.

696

So we'll thank you.

697

Well, thank you again.

698

9.

699

Well spent.

700

Jay: Well, one thing I should note

on that, uh, people ask me this

701

a lot is, well, wait a second.

702

Like, what if then everybody

wants the fast pass?

703

And it's what I always say is

unless you're like an emergency

704

plumber and you know that people

are going to need critical care,

705

don't put it on the website, right?

706

This is not a thing that

you talk about publicly.

707

This is the thing you

talk about one on one.

708

Right.

709

This is the thing that you, this

is the thing that you offer on

710

the phone, not on the homepage.

711

Um, that's kind of an important

distinction in many businesses.

712

Brian: But, you know,

convenience is everything.

713

Like you said, the research even

shows that, you know, people

714

want to be able to skip the line.

715

And, um, so it's a, it's

716

Jay: Yeah.

717

Not everybody and not everybody

does, but that's okay.

718

Yeah.

719

Um, just, you know, if, if just a

handful do it's pure profit, cause

720

that's the thing we don't talk about.

721

Like if all you're doing is

changing the sequence, it

722

doesn't cost you anything more.

723

So it's literally pure profit.

724

Brian: well, I want to find that

emergency deli because definitely.

725

Jay: that too.

726

Roast beef now!

727

John: Yeah.

728

This, this, this harkens back to

our, uh, our Wendy's conversation

729

a little bit too, Brian.

730

Jay: Oh my, that thing was, they're

so, huge thing about Wendy's, and I

731

love the, I love the intro, uh, to

the show about it, because this whole

732

thing, I watched, it's like, it was like

watching a car crash in slow motion,

733

John: a predictable, uh, uh,

uh, an avoidable car crash.

734

Jay: Yeah, and Wendy's is, I

think, historically a pretty

735

nimble marketing organization.

736

Um, but this was a suicide,

not a murder, right?

737

They, they, and what happened, in my

estimation, is you had business school

738

people using business school messaging

about a consumer facing scenario.

739

And that's what killed them

because no, nobody going out for

740

a Dave's double or a baconator is,

is using dynamic pricing, right?

741

That's not all, all they're doing.

742

All they're doing is ladies night

743

Brian: Yeah.

744

Jay: on lady on ladies night.

745

Beers are two for one.

746

That's the same thing.

747

Like at two in the afternoon,

when it's slow between meals, you

748

can get 10 cents off a hamburger.

749

That's all they're doing.

750

This has been around since like, there

was a happy hour caveman special,

751

right in the, like the Neolithic era.

752

This is not new information at all.

753

It's just, they wrapped it up in all of

this like business school jargon, because

754

they were really talking to investors

and stock price, not to consumers.

755

So this was purely, uh, A

communications fail, and whoever is

756

their VP comms, that's the person who

should get the axe, not the actual

757

people who came up with the idea.

758

John: Well, we are, we are of

similar minds on that one for sure.

759

Hey, Jay, I want to switch a little bit to

that idea of outbound messaging, right?

760

Jay: Mm

761

John: On this podcast, we talk

about how brands and people

762

present themselves to the world.

763

And it does seem like it's kind of

rare, even for brands that are really

764

good at delivering a great experience,

customer experience, or a great service

765

to use that in their outbound messaging.

766

Um, I did just notice that discover card

is using Jennifer Coolidge, uh, to promote

767

24 seven access to us based service reps.

768

So, you know, the, the kind of

the knee jerk reaction to people

769

have to The world of chatbots.

770

I want to talk to somebody and I

want them to be someone I understand.

771

are there brands that you think have

done this really effectively, promoted

772

the idea of quality service or a great

experience for a sustained period of time?

773

Are there brands out

there who've done that?

774

Jay: Yes, but it's a great point

and a smart observation that a lot

775

of brands have a differentiated

experience but then don't use marketing

776

to proactively highlight it, right?

777

They, you experience the experience

and then they just sort of assume that

778

that kind of sinks in by osmosis and

then maybe you'll tell somebody about

779

it, hopefully, maybe, is not really a

strategy, that is a, that is a wish.

780

But there are some examples,

like one of the ones that I

781

talk about, is Krispy Kreme.

782

Krispy Kreme has the

hot, fresh light, right?

783

So when they're, when they're making

donuts, the light goes on, which is

784

Pavlovian in a lot of ways, right?

785

But if they're not making

donuts, the light is off, right?

786

So they're basically just telling

everybody who can see this

787

light, you know, that this is

the experience of the moment.

788

I think that's a really, really

smart way to go about it.

789

Um, in, in the Talk Triggers book, we.

790

one of the signature case studies

is, is Doubletree Hotels and their

791

famous chocolate chip cookie that

they, that they give to guests.

792

the, you know, they don't do TV

commercials like, Hey, we have cookies.

793

Cause that's weird.

794

It's not a bakery, but every Doubletree

hotel in the world that is close enough

795

to an airport to have an airport shuttle,

that airport shuttle is wrapped with

796

graphics of giant chocolate chip cookies.

797

Right there.

798

They're just kind of like reminding

you like oh, yeah, that's the hotel

799

that gives you the cookies, right?

800

They're not beating you

over the head with it.

801

And I think that's the way most brands

who do it Do it well is is that it's

802

not the star of the messaging, but

it's definitely a component and I

803

think The discover example is great.

804

You know, the whole spot is

not necessarily about, Hey, our

805

reps are in the U S but it's

definitely part of the story.

806

And I think that double or a discover

is one of the examples I use a lot

807

for a lot of different reasons.

808

I think they are excellent, excellent

marketers and always have been.

809

And of course now they're getting bought.

810

So we'll see how that

continues or doesn't.

811

John: yeah.

812

Brian and I talk probably a little

too much about the experience

813

that Chick fil A delivers.

814

Um, it's not something you ever

see in their marketing message.

815

They want to be known for great chicken.

816

Uh, man, you go in there and that

experience, once you, you know,

817

it keeps you coming back cause

you know, it's going to be, it's

818

going to be the same every time,

819

Jay: Yep.

820

Or, or pal sudden service, which is one

of the examples in the book, um, is it

821

a chain in Tennessee, 30 stores, fastest

fast food place in the country, right?

822

I mean, they're, they're seven times

faster than Taco Bell in terms of how

823

long it takes you to get your food

and drive through it's, it's called

824

the business is called sudden Service.

825

So they're kind of committing to

the bit there at that point, right?

826

If you're going to, if you, if

the business is going to be named

827

sudden service, it better be fast.

828

Uh, so sometimes you can, you can

bake it into, uh, You're positioning,

829

which I think, you know, there's

a reason why Jiffy lube is called

830

Jiffy lube, not lube, right?

831

They're, they're telling

you from the beginning

832

John: right?

833

A couple of reasons for

834

Jay: yeah, there's, yeah,

there's, there's some SEO reasons.

835

Um, there's some other reasons.

836

Yeah.

837

Uh, but, uh, but, they're telling

you what they are in the name of it,

838

which is always the best practice.

839

Brian: So let's talk a

little bit more about AI.

840

And I know you don't want to look

too far ahead, but , what do you

841

see from how AI is going to start

impacting that consumer experience?

842

Jay: Yeah, I mean, there's

so many different piece.

843

I'm actually working on

a speech about this now.

844

As we talked about earlier, first

of all, it's going to change

845

expectations around speed, right?

846

You've got companies like lemonade who can

process an insurance claim in 3 seconds.

847

If you're Allstate, you're

like, bro, what do we do now?

848

Right?

849

I mean, so, so they're just,

and there's going to be.

850

In almost every industry that isn't just

like hands on like come to my house and

851

fix my toilet There's going to be an AI

fueled startup that that literally does

852

whatever your business does 10x faster

than anybody else in the business does

853

it today And you're going to have to

figure out how to contend with that.

854

so that's going to be crazy.

855

The other thing, you know, we talk a lot

about generative AI and that's the one

856

that people understand the most, right?

857

Being able to, to, you know, make me

a cookie recipe or create an image

858

for me or make a movie or whatever.

859

And that's certainly going to have

huge impact on, on content marketing

860

and, you know, books and music and all

the things that are, built by humans.

861

But the reality is a lot of that

stuff is just, you Good enough.

862

I mean, they say that AI stands for

artificial intelligence, but I think

863

it stands for average information.

864

it, it, you know, there's not, I've

never seen anything by that, that I

865

saw either produced by AI or, or I

produced it using my own AI tools.

866

I'm like, that's amazing.

867

That is, that is the best

version of that I've ever seen.

868

Like that, you know, it's, it's remarkably

good, but it's by no means the best.

869

And, and, and what I tell marketers

in particular is like, look.

870

If, if the work that you turn out

isn't better than what AI can do,

871

that's your fault, not AI's fault.

872

Like, do better work.

873

Do more creative work.

874

and the creative part of it, I

think, is, is critical because in a

875

world where everybody has the same

robots, the strategist becomes king.

876

You've got to be able to,

to, to create marketing.

877

That is different enough or weird enough

that AI would never come up with it.

878

And to that end, one of my good

friends, Justin Keller, who's now at

879

Movable Inc, Justin, when he's adding

people to his marketing team now.

880

He's not looking for marketing

operations people or copywriters

881

or designers or photographers

or video editors or analysts.

882

He's looking for poets and sculptors

and people who have degrees in theater.

883

He's literally looking for people

who are raw creative because

884

they can come up with ideas.

885

That AI never will.

886

And the ability to then execute on those

ideas is totally commoditized now, right?

887

You can find somebody to execute.

888

You can find somebody to write

a landing page for a webinar.

889

You don't need to find somebody.

890

You just go to your AI tool and say,

write me a webinar landing page done,

891

but what's the webinar about, right?

892

And, and you've got to have some really

creative people on your teams in order to

893

do something that AI would never conjure.

894

And to me, that's one of the

success paths that people really

895

need to think about is, is.

896

True creativity will

become more important.

897

Faux creativity will become

dramatically unimportant.

898

Of course.

899

John: like that kind of faux creativity.

900

We had a conversation recently with

Margaret Johnson, the Chief Creative

901

Officer at Goody Silverstein and Partners,

and she talked about how all of the art

902

directors in their building are being

actively trained on mid journey and

903

other visual, uh, AI generation tools.

904

And to your point, like, that's what can

win when all the everyone's got those

905

robots, but you've got great creative

people who know how to use them and

906

originate something, a starting point.

907

that makes the AI better and then can

massage an output to be something special.

908

You know, that's where the magic is.

909

Jay: Absolutely.

910

I mean, I, when I first started,

when I was an intern, uh, in

911

college, I interned at an ad agency.

912

And, and when I was there that

summer is the first time the

913

creative departments got computers.

914

And it's the same kind of revolution.

915

It's like, Oh my God, now we have

to like, we have to, and we can

916

make something better, faster,

cheaper, easier, more affordable.

917

You know, is everybody else

going to do it this way?

918

Like, what about, we have a photographer

on staff, like, what are they going to do?

919

Like, all of that disruption, is,

is scary, but it's also a huge

920

opportunity if you can get it right.

921

Brian: this podcast is all about some

of those decision points in your career.

922

And you've certainly had a winding way

to get to where you are in a good way.

923

but, you know, you started as a

political strategist, is that correct?

924

Yeah,

925

Jay: I started as a direct mail

specialist for Senator John McCain.

926

Brian: That's awesome.

927

John: that?

928

Brian: did you have like a moment

of like, this is not for me?

929

Or did you kind of just see

there was opportunity to do what

930

you're doing in other industries?

931

Like, how did you

932

Jay: Yeah, so I was a political science

major and I, and I, my first part

933

of my career was managing campaigns,

but man, it's a tough business.

934

And I got out of it mostly because

in those days, You weren't constantly

935

campaigning the way you are today.

936

In those days, you would go into an

election cycle and then you would have

937

a period of time in between cycles.

938

So right about then is, is

when the very, very, very, very

939

beginning of digital occurred.

940

And my friends from college had

started the first internet company

941

in Arizona where I used to live.

942

And we had beers one night

and they're like, man, we're

943

starting to grow this company.

944

We don't know anything about

marketing and communications.

945

I'm like, well, that's okay.

946

Because when you say the word internet, I

don't actually know what that word means.

947

and I didn't, but I said, I

don't want to do this anymore.

948

So I'm going to come go work for you guys.

949

And so I ended up being the vice

president of sales and marketing of

950

an internet company, having never

been on the internet, which makes

951

for an interesting first day of work.

952

Uh, and you may have heard me say

this on stage, but it was so long

953

ago, that domain names were free.

954

John: Oh yeah.

955

Jay: can get domain names.

956

You just get what you just

get them because why would

957

like, there's no websites.

958

Like, why would you have a website?

959

What would you do with a website?

960

So you just get whatever

domain you wanted.

961

And, and, uh, my partners and I,

in that company, we sold budweiser.

962

com to Anheuser Busch in 1993.

963

So 30, almost 31 years

ago for 50 cases of beer.

964

John: Oh man.

965

Jay: That's how long ago it was.

966

John: Well, it makes you feel

any better in today's dollars.

967

That would be like 250 cases of

968

Jay: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

969

that's, I love digital because you

have the same kind of finality.

970

Even, even versus outdoor or radio

or TV or newspaper or magazine or

971

even direct mail, which I started

in, you know, in digital, you're

972

like, okay, how many people clicked?

973

How many people opened?

974

How many people converted?

975

Right?

976

That, that level of

like, Math and analytics.

977

I really, I really enjoyed.

978

So, uh, I've only done two

smart things in my career.

979

Really one, uh, convinced my wife to marry

me, which was still my greatest triumph.

980

And the thing I worked out the hardest,

frankly, um, and to, uh, got the good

981

sense to get involved in the internet,

like essentially from the first day and,

982

and mostly stay involved since then.

983

John: Well, there were the early

days of the internet, direct mail.

984

response marketers like they were a

natural fit for what was happening there.

985

So yeah, a lot of people

986

Jay: It made perfect sense to me.

987

Absolutely.

988

John: then the most recent pivot, you

know, now you, you know, you mentioned

989

you sold your consulting practice.

990

Um, and I guess that was to become

what you are now, which is the biggest

991

tequila influencer in the country.

992

Yeah.

993

Jay: No, that was not, that was not it.

994

That was

995

John: It, you know, it wasn't that,

996

Jay: No, it wasn't that I,

997

Brian: Sounds like the world's

greatest midlife crisis.

998

Jay: happy accident.

999

No, I,

00:44:45,949 --> 00:44:47,509

John: more of an

evolution than a hard cut.

00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:48,447

Not

00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:52,679

Jay: know, for, for, for 10 years, I

was running a global strategy firm with

00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:54,429

really big clients doing great work.

00:44:54,609 --> 00:44:57,899

And I was also traveling 48 weeks

a year as a professional speaker.

00:44:58,769 --> 00:45:00,059

And, and I've spent.

00:45:00,168 --> 00:45:05,144

Every minute of every flight doing work

and every weekend, and I loved it, I

00:45:05,144 --> 00:45:09,181

thought, and then when the pandemic

happened and I had to stop traveling, I

00:45:09,181 --> 00:45:13,321

realized that I'd actually been manifestly

unhappy for a long time, but I just

00:45:13,321 --> 00:45:14,851

didn't know because I'd never stopped.

00:45:14,861 --> 00:45:16,231

I've never stopped.

00:45:16,291 --> 00:45:20,361

and, and then when I was forced

to stop, I was like, I I, I can't

00:45:20,361 --> 00:45:21,601

keep doing both of these things.

00:45:21,731 --> 00:45:23,191

Um, it's just too much.

00:45:23,354 --> 00:45:27,988

And I sold Convince and Convert, uh, to

a good friend cause who I knew would,

00:45:28,008 --> 00:45:29,268

would be a great steward of the business.

00:45:29,278 --> 00:45:33,024

And they have been, and, and said, okay,

I'm going to keep doing the speaking side.

00:45:33,024 --> 00:45:35,754

Cause it's, you know, nobody

ever gives standing ovations in a

00:45:35,754 --> 00:45:37,114

conference room to a strategic plan.

00:45:37,454 --> 00:45:40,194

It's more psychologically satisfying to

be a speaker than to be a strategist.

00:45:40,194 --> 00:45:40,534

Yeah.

00:45:40,659 --> 00:45:42,219

Uh, and it was, man, that strategy.

00:45:42,219 --> 00:45:42,289

Woo.

00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,779

You know, you're not signing autographs,

you know, it doesn't really work

00:45:45,869 --> 00:45:47,129

John: once, not even once.

00:45:47,149 --> 00:45:47,509

Jay: never.

00:45:48,089 --> 00:45:51,369

Uh, so I kept the speaking business,

sold the consulting business.

00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,059

And, and I hosted a podcast every

week for 10 years called social

00:45:55,059 --> 00:45:56,849

pros did 500 and something episodes.

00:45:56,959 --> 00:46:00,254

And after I'd sold the

business, uh, for a.

00:46:00,574 --> 00:46:02,024

I've been out for almost a year.

00:46:02,114 --> 00:46:03,054

I was like, you know what I should do?

00:46:03,084 --> 00:46:06,954

I should take some of the time that I used

to allocate every week to the podcast,

00:46:07,158 --> 00:46:10,098

and maybe I should just try to teach

people some of the things I've learned

00:46:10,098 --> 00:46:12,078

about tequila in the last 25 years.

00:46:12,788 --> 00:46:15,388

So, uh, not even two years

ago was when we started.

00:46:15,418 --> 00:46:16,578

I just made a video.

00:46:16,618 --> 00:46:17,088

It was terrible.

00:46:17,088 --> 00:46:18,578

Made another video, also terrible.

00:46:18,998 --> 00:46:22,518

Made a couple more videos, slightly less

terrible, um, on Instagram and TikTok.

00:46:23,528 --> 00:46:27,238

And then it kind of caught fire and

now it's like a whole business and I'm

00:46:27,238 --> 00:46:31,238

the second most popular non celebrity

tequila influencer on the planet.

00:46:31,238 --> 00:46:33,288

I have quarter million

followers or something across

00:46:33,288 --> 00:46:35,468

channels, 25 videos a month.

00:46:35,468 --> 00:46:39,328

We have a bunch of sponsors and

partnerships and I'm in Mexico

00:46:39,328 --> 00:46:41,378

all the time now, uh, doing work.

00:46:41,378 --> 00:46:44,618

So it's, uh, it's, it's

been a, been a crazy ride.

00:46:44,678 --> 00:46:46,198

Uh, we really, really enjoy it.

00:46:46,198 --> 00:46:48,668

It's a fun, it's a fun business

to be in, to be in, obviously.

00:46:48,873 --> 00:46:51,133

And the UPS guy is like,

dude, what is your problem?

00:46:51,353 --> 00:46:54,183

Because I get, I get like

eight or 10 bottles a week

00:46:54,183 --> 00:46:55,303

sent to the house for review.

00:46:55,333 --> 00:46:58,293

Cause we do so many tequila reviews

and he's just like, I don't know.

00:46:58,333 --> 00:47:01,263

I mean like you gotta, you know, and

I keep having to buy more shelves

00:47:01,663 --> 00:47:03,133

and my wife's like, no more shelves.

00:47:03,143 --> 00:47:03,983

It's like a whole thing.

00:47:04,023 --> 00:47:08,459

So yeah, it's Tequila

Jay Baer on Instagram.

00:47:08,489 --> 00:47:09,319

Look it up folks.

00:47:09,389 --> 00:47:10,129

Tequila Jay Baer.

00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:12,010

Brian: Yeah, it's a great follow.

00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,990

Um, I asked you, you had a recent

video of you going through, uh,

00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:21,599

the liquor store in Vegas, which

is like the collision of, of, yeah,

00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:22,019

Jay: worlds.

00:47:22,019 --> 00:47:22,289

Yeah.

00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:23,239

Yeah.

00:47:23,529 --> 00:47:23,739

Yeah.

00:47:23,739 --> 00:47:25,409

That's actually one of the things

I'm glad you mentioned that.

00:47:25,409 --> 00:47:26,159

Thanks for pointing it out.

00:47:26,189 --> 00:47:29,219

It's one of the things I'm doing now is

there's other people who make tequila

00:47:29,219 --> 00:47:33,879

content for like four other, uh,

accounts that, that are, um, they have

00:47:33,879 --> 00:47:37,419

a pretty good audience and, and I'm

like, well, what's our differentiator.

00:47:37,953 --> 00:47:39,693

Number one, my co host Maddie is amazing.

00:47:39,773 --> 00:47:41,323

we're the only one who kind of are a duo.

00:47:41,469 --> 00:47:44,519

But number two, since I do travel every

week still, I'm like, well, I'm going

00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:48,069

to go to the, the top liquor store in

every city where I'm doing a keynote.

00:47:48,109 --> 00:47:50,489

I'm just going to say, well, here's

the tequila I'd buy at that store.

00:47:50,739 --> 00:47:52,579

And so we're starting

to do that, that thesis.

00:47:52,579 --> 00:47:53,459

You saw the Vegas one.

00:47:53,859 --> 00:47:55,319

Uh, we did a Nashville one last week.

00:47:55,329 --> 00:47:56,989

This week we're doing one in Phoenix.

00:47:56,989 --> 00:47:59,219

Next week, um, New Orleans.

00:47:59,219 --> 00:48:01,739

So every week it's like a

new liquor store adventure.

00:48:01,739 --> 00:48:03,109

So people seem to like that content.

00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:03,699

It's kind of fun.

00:48:04,013 --> 00:48:04,643

Brian: yeah, it's great.

00:48:04,773 --> 00:48:04,953

Yeah.

00:48:04,953 --> 00:48:06,243

Let us know when you come to Philadelphia.

00:48:06,583 --> 00:48:06,873

Jay: I will,

00:48:07,123 --> 00:48:07,833

John: For sure.

00:48:07,933 --> 00:48:08,513

Teach us.

00:48:08,513 --> 00:48:08,793

Jay: will.

00:48:08,933 --> 00:48:11,293

Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania

being a control state is a bit

00:48:11,293 --> 00:48:13,203

of a, bit of a tequila desert.

00:48:13,213 --> 00:48:13,973

It gets a little harder.

00:48:14,113 --> 00:48:15,583

Uh, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan.

00:48:15,593 --> 00:48:18,863

There's a few states that's like,

Ooh, this is going to be a tough list.

00:48:19,053 --> 00:48:21,663

John: Well, Philly is a

short drive to New Jersey and

00:48:22,083 --> 00:48:22,733

Jay: Exactly.

00:48:22,833 --> 00:48:23,093

Exactly.

00:48:23,183 --> 00:48:23,853

John: have options.

00:48:23,903 --> 00:48:24,063

Yeah.

00:48:24,063 --> 00:48:24,333

We do

00:48:24,463 --> 00:48:25,223

Jay: Absolutely.

00:48:25,983 --> 00:48:28,543

Brian: One of the, the messages

I've always gotten from you over

00:48:28,543 --> 00:48:31,663

the years , and it's been helpful

advice for, for everybody that I've

00:48:31,663 --> 00:48:36,023

worked with is just, you know, these

things like technology and digital,

00:48:36,043 --> 00:48:39,203

they're, they're just the enabler,

you know, it's not your golden ticket.

00:48:39,305 --> 00:48:44,085

Especially if you can't, , hold up your

end of the bar, um, and so, um, you

00:48:44,085 --> 00:48:47,985

know, with everything you've seen in

your career over, many decades, , do you

00:48:47,985 --> 00:48:51,195

feel like the principles of marketing

and pretty much stayed the same or, you

00:48:51,195 --> 00:48:54,415

know, do we just live in a completely

different universe from when you started?

00:48:54,415 --> 00:48:55,995

Jay: I think their principles

have always been the same.

00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,750

And always will be.

00:48:58,860 --> 00:49:03,490

It's just how you articulate and

execute against those principles

00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:05,950

have changed a tremendous amount

and will continue to change.

00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:09,550

And now with AI, we'll change even,

even more than we've expected and

00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:15,210

experienced in the, in the recent past

with the ideas of, okay, how do we.

00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:19,650

How do we make somebody know what we do?

00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,460

How do we make them need what we sell?

00:49:22,493 --> 00:49:25,523

And then how do we make them

tell other people about it?

00:49:25,763 --> 00:49:26,033

Right?

00:49:26,033 --> 00:49:32,186

Whether you're executing that on, a, a

flyer posted to a wall or an AI driven

00:49:32,216 --> 00:49:36,986

chat bot, the core thesis around what

marketing is about, is the same and

00:49:36,986 --> 00:49:38,336

we'll, and we'll always be the same.

00:49:38,513 --> 00:49:43,750

What we forget though, is, is that

the tools change probably more and

00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:45,920

faster in marketing than almost

any other discipline other than

00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,210

maybe like medicine or something.

00:49:47,210 --> 00:49:47,380

Right?

00:49:47,390 --> 00:49:50,826

Like, even the stuff that, that my team

and I were doing five years ago, you

00:49:50,826 --> 00:49:54,341

wouldn't, you know, You wouldn't do

now much less 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

00:49:54,341 --> 00:49:57,591

So, it's, it's good job security

for, uh, for folks like you, right?

00:49:57,591 --> 00:50:00,071

Like keep, keep telling them

what, what today's truth is.

00:50:00,431 --> 00:50:02,648

Cause yesterday's truth

may no longer be true.

00:50:02,896 --> 00:50:03,566

John: Jay, thank you.

00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:06,960

Your background, , your

storytelling, your experiences,

00:50:06,980 --> 00:50:08,690

all really, really interesting.

00:50:08,690 --> 00:50:11,020

And, uh, we're very

grateful that you joined us.

00:50:11,545 --> 00:50:11,985

Jay: My pleasure.

00:50:11,985 --> 00:50:12,955

It's great to be with you.

00:50:13,005 --> 00:50:13,775

I love the show.

00:50:13,805 --> 00:50:15,035

Amazing questions as well.

00:50:15,035 --> 00:50:16,045

I really enjoyed the conversation.

00:50:16,045 --> 00:50:16,785

I'll come back sometime.

00:50:16,785 --> 00:50:18,445

We'll just, we'll do a

whole show on tequila.

00:50:18,445 --> 00:50:20,695

You let me know when you're

ready and tequila, actually the

00:50:20,695 --> 00:50:24,845

field of tequila marketing is a

very interesting, uh, business.

00:50:25,105 --> 00:50:27,325

There's a, there's some, there's

some opportunities there.

00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:27,810

Brian: Love it.

00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:28,400

Love it.

00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:30,670

John: That was, it sounds like

maybe a follow up podcast,

00:50:30,815 --> 00:50:31,435

Jay: You let me know

00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,450

John: a live edition from

00:50:33,475 --> 00:50:34,325

Jay: can do, can do.

00:50:34,325 --> 00:50:34,445

We

00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:37,180

John: one of the road trips we

always plan from, from every

00:50:37,180 --> 00:50:38,630

time we talk, talk to a guest.

00:50:38,995 --> 00:50:39,475

Jay: I love it.

00:50:39,475 --> 00:50:39,865

Let me know.

00:50:39,865 --> 00:50:40,335

We'll do it.

00:50:40,455 --> 00:50:41,235

I appreciate it

00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,030

Brian: All right, Jay.

00:50:42,030 --> 00:50:43,050

We really appreciate your time.

00:50:43,243 --> 00:50:43,693

Jay: Thanks.

00:50:46,224 --> 00:50:47,931

John: Wow, Brian, thank you.

00:50:48,071 --> 00:50:49,221

It was an amazing guest.

00:50:49,248 --> 00:50:54,248

hats off to you for pulling in an a

list speaker like that to join us.

00:50:54,438 --> 00:50:54,968

What a treat.

00:50:55,358 --> 00:50:58,292

Brian: It was, it was awesome to be

able to talk to him and go through

00:50:58,302 --> 00:51:01,671

a lot of the things that we usually

talk about anyway, but, , his point of

00:51:01,671 --> 00:51:04,991

view and he's just connected with so

many people and heard so many stories.

00:51:05,011 --> 00:51:06,591

And it's great to get

some of that knowledge.

00:51:06,831 --> 00:51:08,171

John: Next time, tequila.

00:51:10,691 --> 00:51:11,881

Brian: or right now, tequila.

00:51:11,931 --> 00:51:12,321

Yes,

00:51:12,671 --> 00:51:14,321

John: I know nothing about tequila.

00:51:14,775 --> 00:51:15,765

Brian: time to time to learn.

00:51:15,765 --> 00:51:17,125

Never too, never too late to start.

00:51:17,375 --> 00:51:17,975

John: Never too late.

00:51:18,195 --> 00:51:23,085

Brian, before we transition to

our dear, hopelessly unattainable

00:51:23,095 --> 00:51:26,952

guest segment, feel like we should

address something we've been, we've

00:51:26,952 --> 00:51:28,222

been skipping on this podcast.

00:51:28,462 --> 00:51:29,782

Relentless self promotion.

00:51:29,942 --> 00:51:30,462

Brian: Oh, God.

00:51:30,737 --> 00:51:35,077

John: Yeah, so, uh, I would ask

anybody who's listening, if you've

00:51:35,077 --> 00:51:39,302

enjoyed this even a little bit,

please, share, post it to your socials,

00:51:39,552 --> 00:51:43,852

whatever it takes, just listen,

subscribe, share, we appreciate it,

00:51:44,031 --> 00:51:44,501

Brian: Oh, friend.

00:51:44,662 --> 00:51:45,152

John: tell a friend.

00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:49,552

Alright, so now I will give you my

dear, hopelessly unattainable guest.

00:51:49,798 --> 00:51:51,488

Here we go, I think you're gonna like it.

00:51:52,468 --> 00:51:56,338

Dear Elon Musk, please join us

on the Snap Decisions podcast.

00:51:56,498 --> 00:51:59,118

We're doing it strictly for

the attention, which I believe

00:51:59,188 --> 00:52:01,168

you'll relate to and appreciate.

00:52:01,458 --> 00:52:02,928

Sincerely, John O'Brien.

00:52:03,263 --> 00:52:04,543

Brian: and that's it.

00:52:04,688 --> 00:52:05,358