Speed to Victory: CX leader Jay Baer

Brian: 00:00:05

Hey, John.

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Welcome back.

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John: Hey, hey, good to see you, Brian.

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Brian: Good to see you.

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Uh, I heard you moved

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John: I moved.

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Nothing, nothing like a good

move to cleanse your heart,

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your soul, and your house.

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Brian: a good, uh, buyers

and sellers experience.

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John: all things considered,

it was a relatively smooth

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experience, but I'm tired.

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Tired and disorganized.

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Brian: I think everybody I've talked

to that moves says I'm not moving

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again ever for the rest of my life.

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Full stop.

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John: Those words may have escaped

my lips a few times in the past week.

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Die in this house and then

you can just set it aflame.

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Brian: Well, I think, uh, speaking

of experiences, , we have a

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really good show today that really

gets into, consumer experience.

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John: Yes.

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Brian: And, , our guest, , Jay Baer

is an expert in consumer experience

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and CX and, um, business growth.

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And so really excited to talk to him.

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before we do that, I want to hop

in here and talk about some news

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we're seeing, , on technology

relating to the consumer experience.

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So, recently on an investor call, Wendy's.

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The fast food chain announced plans

next year to release new technology that

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would help facilitate dynamic pricing,

so that local stores could change menu

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costs as they needed or wanted to.

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News outlets jumped all over this and

started touting it as surge pricing, you

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know, kind of like when Uber or airline

jacks up costs when demand is the highest.

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John: they sure did.

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Brian: Yeah, and so not surprisingly,

there's an immediate backlash

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and concerns of price gouging.

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Inflation, obviously, as well,

has been a serious concern for

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people everywhere, so the timing

of this could not have been worse.

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Jokes flew around social media

that the only time to go to

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Wendy's would be between 2 and 4 p.

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m.

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And, uh, according to the New

York Post, Wendy's now ranks

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already as the most expensive fast

food chain in the United States.

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John: Oh,

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Brian: After already inflating

their, um, menu costs 35 percent

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over the last couple of years,

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and, one more not surprising thing.

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immediately, Wendy's tried

to clarify what it had meant.

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They said that they would not be

implementing such type pricing with

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this new technology or would they change

prices when demand is the highest?

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Instead, they were saying that,

they would attempt to bring in new

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customers by actually lowering prices

or offering specials when demand is

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low, ultimate spin spin zone here.

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John, So, what do you think the takeaway

is here for brands as they look to

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improve their business through technology?

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And, should consumers trust how brands

continue to evolve and grow, uh, their

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businesses and as they use technology?

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John: right.

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Well, first of all, I think the

brand should stop using technology

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to manufacture hype before they've

thought through how they're actually

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going to use it, which I think

was the case here with Wendy's.

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And there's a real corporate

communications lesson

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to be learned in this.

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, when you called my attention to this, I

went back and I read the original quote,

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which was from the CEO, Kirk Tanner,

during that quarterly earnings call.

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And he said, beginning as early as

2025, we will begin testing more

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enhanced features like dynamic

pricing and day part offerings.

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Of course, everyone would

interpret, quote, dynamic pricing

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and day part offerings to mean

surge pricing's coming, right?

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And Corporate Communications 101 would

have told them to manage that message.

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So either, you know, their Corporate

Communications team did say, Don't say

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it like this or the CEO ignored it.

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I would guess or they actually

were planning to do surge pricing.

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So what a what a mess.

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I guess , if the intention was actually

about getting smart around offering

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day part discounts, that's great.

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But if they were seriously considering

turning their menu into a Russian roulette

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of pricing, I think that's stupid.

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That whole concept is just at odds

with what I would say is the core

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promise of any fast food restaurant,

which is predictability, right?

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Promotions, cool.

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Everyone does that, right?

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Let's get people into

stores when stores are slow.

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Brian: Yeah.

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What they weren't doing was A system

that automatically changes the price.

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I mean, they were definitely giving local

stores more control over the ability

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to change price, which they already do.

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I mean, like the cost of a hamburger at

a Wendy's in New York costs different

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than a hamburger in South Carolina.

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So, it's not like they're going

to be sitting in in headquarters,

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surgically changing prices by the

minute based off the amount of cars

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that are in the drive through line.

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So, I don't know that they were

going full Uber on this, but,

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the look of this is brutal.

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So, like you said, uh, this is not

a good look for their communications

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team, which by the way, was probably

saying exactly what you were saying

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and they probably get rid of the rules.

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John: Yeah, that's my guess.

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Alright, so can I pivot to another

story that I noticed that's about

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that idea of using technologies

to improve a customer experience?

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Brian: Sure.

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John: Sure.

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Alright.

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I just saw that Verizon One of America's

favorite punching bags, just created

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a new chief customer experience

officer role for someone named Brian

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Higgins and recruited a Walmart

executive, Dory Butler SV as SVP of CX.

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Now, I don't know Brian or

Dory, but congratulations

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and good luck to them both.

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That is a big, big and

probably thankless job.

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So Ryan, thinking about Verizon in the

past, how, in your mind, how have they

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traditionally positioned themselves?

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What are they focused on?

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Brian: Network quality.

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John: Correct.

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Well, these moves are intended

to make customer experience, also

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a competitive differentiator.

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, just like they did around network quality.

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So, Verizon has now brought all of its

customer care teams together under one

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department, which I kind of thought

they would have done a while ago,

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but good that they're doing it now.

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, and they're saying that nearly 75% Of

their customer care calls are small,

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but kind of annoying issues that came

from some sort of, you know, small

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break in their customer experience, and

they're saying that a I will play a big

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role in Verizon's customer care event.

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So with all the news and the

commotion around AI these days,

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I think this is where there's

some really interesting promise.

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So according to, This new head of customer

experience, there are more than 10, 000

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articles in Verizon's knowledge base

that provide informational promotions or

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problems that a customer may be having.

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So AI can synthesize all that info

and deliver it to the customer

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service reps in real time.

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and personally, I love the

idea of talking to a human who

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understands what I'm looking for.

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And has AI in the background,

helping them focus on being more

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helpful, empathetic, and, expert.

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And if they got 10, 000 articles at their

disposal, though, that's getting clearly

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synthesized by AI, they'll be more expert.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well, let me just say one

thing about AI, and I love it.

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And that's great, but they

couldn't be doing this without AI.

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Like AI can just make it go faster.

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If they have those

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John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Brian: Throwing the AI on top

of this to make it prettier and

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put a nice little bow on it.

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Some lipstick is great.

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.

John: You think it's just you think it's just prettifying it

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Brian: Well, I mean, it'll make it go

faster, but at the same time, like, why

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couldn't they have already been using

the database of all these articles?

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I

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John: well because because the database

of the articles sure it's there but having

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something really quickly figuring out

what my problem is and what's unique about

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my problem and based on all the archives

pull the right exact information for me is

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something I think you're asking an awful

lot of customer service rep who maybe went

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through a, you know, Few weeks or months

of training and it's new to the job.

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Brian: I mean, look, if you want to be a

Verizon apologist about that, that's fine.

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It shouldn't be that difficult.

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A lot of these things

are internal problems.

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And so, yeah, can you get an AI to

help feed them the answers quickly?

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Yes.

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But you're enabling people to not do

the extra work to understand , what

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the problems are to begin with, but

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John: Well, yeah.

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And I would argue that if you've talked

to, many organizations, customer service

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reps, you realize they haven't been

properly trained and they don't have

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all the information at the fingertips.

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So if that means I get less frustrated

and I spend less time screaming,

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uh, at a, at a phone tree, cool.

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Uh, and I would have to say, I think

that's the first time anyone has

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ever called me a Verizon apologist.

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Brian: that is, is working towards you

trying to improve the experience is great.

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I like that they're bringing the teams

together, which, you know, Ted, why

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didn't that happen in 2000, but Hey.

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You bring it in new people.

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They're coming up with new ideas

and I'm sure there's a good reason

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why they were separate, but,

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John: well, you've been in corporate

America, you know, they probably

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were together and then they got

separated and then we got pulled

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back together and separated and

now they're back together again.

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Brian: completely.

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all right, well, from there,

let's go to our guests.

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John: he's gonna be so

much more interesting than

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me, the Verizon apologist.

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Brian: Uh,

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I'm beyond excited to introduce,

our guest for today's episode.

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He's an expert in customer

experience and business growth.

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He's a researcher and author,

a founder, a podcaster.

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He's in the professional speakers

hall of fame, a top 30 global

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guru in CX and internet marketing.

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He's my favorite keynote at a conference.

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You're going to love him.

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He's relatable, he's

funny, and he makes sense.

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His past books like Utility, Hug

Your Haters, and Talk Triggers

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are companions for every marketer.

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His latest book is called The

Time to Win, which focuses on

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businesses taking advantage of

speed of service while they can.

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And I don't want to leave this out.

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He's now a major tequila influencer.

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So let's invite in some

conversation with Jay Baer.

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Jay, we're so happy to

have you on the show today.

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John: Hey, Jay.

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Jay: be here.

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Hey everybody.

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How you doing?

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Thanks for having me on the show.

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John: Thanks for joining us

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Brian: Yeah, I really appreciate it.

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So, let's get into this

book, the time to win.

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You know, businesses today face

so many challenges to reach

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and interact with customers.

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We always talk about the amount

of noise and distractions today.

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There's too much going

on in everybody's world.

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You're focused on responsiveness

for businesses and the

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need to build a Sure of it.

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So it's so important if you don't act

quickly, you're going to miss out.

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The value of time is, uh, incomprehensible

and, if you don't do this right, how can

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customers even trust you to do the job

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Jay: Yeah.

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I mean, you've probably heard the

phrase good, fast, cheap, pick any two.

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It's pretty common business parlance.

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You know, doesn't really work anymore

because you can decide whether

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you want to be cheap and fast.

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Or quality and fast, but fast is non

negotiable, generally speaking, right?

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That's one that you kind

of have to do that one.

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And then you can pick whether

you want to be the, you know,

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you want to be Jiffy lube, right?

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Or you want to be, uh, you

know, the opposite, which

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is emergency plumber, right?

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It's going to, you know, they'll

come, they'll come Sunday night.

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But it's going to cost you, right?

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Speed is no longer kind of an

optional exercise for most businesses.

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And, and look, I wrote the book just

when AI, um, as we currently think

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about it was, was breaking and the

implications for AI on expectations

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around response are going to be.

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Overwhelming, right?

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I mean, it just everything can happen so

much faster without human intervention.

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And so the culture is going to ratchet

up even more around speed expectations.

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John: Yeah.

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And Jay, before we go too much

further, I just have to say thank

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you for writing a business book

that is consumable in an hour.

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If I have a

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Jay: it.

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I mean, the book is only like,

I don't know, it's like 5000

242

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words or something, right?

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John: Yeah.

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Yeah.

245

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Jay: to do it that way, John.

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I've written six other business books

that are like, you know, traditional size.

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And I started writing this one.

248

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I'm like, wait a second, hold on.

249

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I can't write a full length

business book that requires the

250

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reader to invest five or six hours.

251

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What's the book about speed.

252

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That doesn't, it doesn't

make any sense, right?

253

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It's like the exact opposite of

the advice contained in the pages.

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Uh, so I'm like, wait a second.

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What if.

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I wrote a very short book that you

can read in under an hour that has

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all the meat and none of the fat.

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And it's actually been a really

interesting lesson, like how that

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book is merchandised and sold and

everything has been much different,

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of course, than a regular book.

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But people love it.

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Especially at events because you know

what sucks when you go to a conference

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and they give you like the hardcover

book from the keynote speaker and then

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you're trying to hold a book in one hand

and like drink a Chardonnay in the other

265

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hand and like shake hands with your third

hand like it's a very complicated dance.

266

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So this book is so small you put

it in your shirt pocket your jacket

267

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pocket your handbag whatever.

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Uh, I will say this, however,

and I, and I, I learned this.

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It's late and a hard way.

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It is a very hard book to sign

because it's so small and it's soft

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cover that it's hard for me to open

it and hold it open and sign it.

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So that, that part has actually been

a little bit of a hassle, but other

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than that, it's been successful

and I would do it again because you

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know, look, I'm, I'm not ashamed to

admit that most people, including me,

275

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don't actually read business books.

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Yeah.

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John: finished one.

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Jay: And they skim up and why not?

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Because I'm guilty of this too, right?

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In the first chapter, here's my thesis.

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And then you repeat that thesis 11 more

chapters in a slightly different way.

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Right.

283

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And that's just the nature of it.

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Right.

285

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But, but publishers trust me, cause I

worked with all the major publishers.

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They want that book to be 225 pages or

longer because that's the standard size

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that actual physical bookstores require.

288

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You know, this, we're writing books

this length because bookstores want

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them to be wide enough to be shelved.

290

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Like, is that the tail

wagging the dog or what?

291

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Brian: seriously?

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Jay: Well, I mean, look, I, I am an

author and I love books and I read books

293

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every day, but the last time I went to

a physical bookstore it's been a bit.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Did you have to have a rule in your head?

296

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Like, you know, sell yourself on keeping

something in or did you just kind of

297

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create an outline and just sparsely.

298

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Jay: It's funny, uh, actually I did it

the same way, Brian, that I do all my

299

00:14:16,468 --> 00:14:19,098

books actually, just with more rigor.

300

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So I, write books in a process that

is not unique, but certainly unusual

301

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compared to most business authors

in that I will write a speech.

302

00:14:29,569 --> 00:14:33,665

I go out and do that speech 25 or

40 times and then once I have the

303

00:14:33,665 --> 00:14:35,705

speech dialed, then I write the book

304

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John: Interesting.

305

00:14:36,630 --> 00:14:37,000

Yeah, that's

306

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Jay: a couple of reasons.

307

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John: That's backwards

for most people, right?

308

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Jay: Absolutely backwards.

309

00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:42,340

Uh, and I do it for a couple of reasons.

310

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One, it makes the book flow better

because it's got a narrative.

311

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It's got a beginning, a middle and an end.

312

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The way speech has a

beginning and middle and end.

313

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But the real reason I do it.

314

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I am allergic to using examples

that people have heard of before.

315

00:14:53,207 --> 00:14:57,027

So you'll never hear me talk about

Amazon or Starbucks or Apple or

316

00:14:57,057 --> 00:15:00,397

anything like that in any book I

ever write because it's so axiomatic.

317

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It's just boring, right?

318

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So, what I do is as I'm working out

this material, In every speech, I

319

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say, hope you enjoyed today's program.

320

00:15:08,162 --> 00:15:11,772

If you've got any examples of a company

that is faster than you expected them

321

00:15:11,772 --> 00:15:15,280

to be, or slower than you wanted them

to be, please, please, please, uh,

322

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come see me right after I finished.

323

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Cause I'm collecting

stories for my new book.

324

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And so almost all the stories that

I have in almost all my books came

325

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from audiences who, who saw me speak

or like, oh, I've got an example.

326

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And that's why I've got all

these weird, different industries

327

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from all over the world.

328

00:15:30,153 --> 00:15:33,040

And so in this case, all

I did was the same idea.

329

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I just didn't add more stuff.

330

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It was like, okay, instead of one example,

instead of five examples, let's do one.

331

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So essentially it's the

same format of a book.

332

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I just didn't add all the extra

ornaments on a Christmas tree.

333

00:15:43,585 --> 00:15:43,775

Brian: got it.

334

00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:45,029

I love your examples.

335

00:15:45,109 --> 00:15:47,839

Uh, I feel like they always

really reinforce your points

336

00:15:48,094 --> 00:15:48,584

John: Oh, yeah.

337

00:15:48,644 --> 00:15:50,604

The best smelling plumber in Los Angeles?

338

00:15:51,099 --> 00:15:51,489

Jay: Yeah.

339

00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:54,288

Mike diamond, Mike diamond

plumbers, smell good plumbers.

340

00:15:54,288 --> 00:15:55,428

That's on every truck.

341

00:15:56,078 --> 00:15:59,388

The funny thing about Mike diamond

plumbers is if you go to Google

342

00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:02,120

and search Mike diamond plumbers

and look at their reviews.

343

00:16:02,244 --> 00:16:04,764

Like all the reviews, like

he really did smell good.

344

00:16:04,774 --> 00:16:06,644

Like it's, it is, it is hilarious.

345

00:16:06,934 --> 00:16:08,264

They have a house cologne.

346

00:16:08,294 --> 00:16:11,694

They literally have a house cologne,

uh, for, for their plumbers.

347

00:16:11,694 --> 00:16:13,674

When you, when you get a job there,

they give you a little bottles.

348

00:16:13,684 --> 00:16:14,644

Like, this is what you're going to wear.

349

00:16:15,089 --> 00:16:17,479

John: So is that an example of

something that came from one

350

00:16:17,479 --> 00:16:19,939

of your audience members or is

that something you experienced

351

00:16:20,164 --> 00:16:24,821

Jay: So that particular example

came from Daniel Lemon, who co

352

00:16:24,881 --> 00:16:26,591

authored Talk Triggers with me.

353

00:16:26,727 --> 00:16:31,027

Daniel, uh, is an amazing thought

leader and, and has some other books

354

00:16:31,027 --> 00:16:35,047

of his own as well and, and worked very

closely with me as my head of strategy

355

00:16:35,067 --> 00:16:36,587

at my consulting firm for many years.

356

00:16:36,721 --> 00:16:39,290

He lives in Los Angeles and

so he literally needed a

357

00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:40,751

plumber, Mike Diamond plumbers.

358

00:16:41,001 --> 00:16:42,411

And he's like, wait, the Smogon plumber.

359

00:16:42,421 --> 00:16:43,811

And I'm writing a book

about word of mouth.

360

00:16:43,861 --> 00:16:44,481

Amazing.

361

00:16:44,551 --> 00:16:48,695

That, that, that example, like fell

into our lap, out of the sky, which

362

00:16:48,695 --> 00:16:50,065

are, which sometimes are the best ones.

363

00:16:50,728 --> 00:16:54,388

Brian: Of all the tidbits you've gotten

from like local companies and things for

364

00:16:54,388 --> 00:16:55,758

your books, which one's your favorite?

365

00:16:55,876 --> 00:16:56,456

Jay: Oh, geez.

366

00:16:56,456 --> 00:16:57,486

I've never been asked that before.

367

00:16:57,486 --> 00:16:58,006

And it's kind of

368

00:16:58,101 --> 00:16:59,321

Brian: Like thousands of them, so I

369

00:16:59,341 --> 00:17:01,221

John: Yeah, just just

pick from a catalog of

370

00:17:01,591 --> 00:17:05,101

Jay: I mean, I, I would say probably

the one that I go back to the most

371

00:17:05,101 --> 00:17:09,606

often, because I think it resonates with

people, is, is Skip's Kitchen, which is

372

00:17:09,606 --> 00:17:15,135

the, the restaurant in Sacramento, where

when you order your meal, They fan out a

373

00:17:15,135 --> 00:17:18,621

deck of playing cards face down in front

of you and you pick a card and if you

374

00:17:18,621 --> 00:17:21,211

get a joker, your entire meal is free.

375

00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:25,932

use that story a lot because it's

so easy to execute for businesses

376

00:17:25,952 --> 00:17:28,582

and it doesn't matter whether

you're in the restaurant business or

377

00:17:28,582 --> 00:17:29,832

you're a chiropractor or whatever.

378

00:17:30,122 --> 00:17:33,242

People understand the power.

379

00:17:33,357 --> 00:17:38,072

Of that technique and how and why

it generates so much goodwill and so

380

00:17:38,072 --> 00:17:39,452

much word of mouth for that business.

381

00:17:39,452 --> 00:17:41,502

So I tend to use that example.

382

00:17:41,532 --> 00:17:43,002

Because people really get it.

383

00:17:43,062 --> 00:17:44,412

They're like, Oh, that is cool.

384

00:17:44,492 --> 00:17:46,932

Oh, I understand how I

could possibly do that, etc.

385

00:17:47,082 --> 00:17:47,562

Brian: that's cool.

386

00:17:47,677 --> 00:17:48,557

Jay: But I have a whole database.

387

00:17:48,557 --> 00:17:49,267

That's how I do it.

388

00:17:49,277 --> 00:17:49,867

So I collect all the

389

00:17:50,002 --> 00:17:50,242

Brian: Yeah.

390

00:17:50,722 --> 00:17:51,472

Jay: And then I tag them.

391

00:17:51,482 --> 00:17:53,242

So I have a whole like tagging system.

392

00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,387

And so we tag them by B2B versus

B2C, big company, small company.

393

00:17:57,577 --> 00:17:58,307

Is it word of mouth?

394

00:17:58,317 --> 00:17:59,247

Is it customer experience?

395

00:17:59,247 --> 00:18:00,567

Is it bad customer experience?

396

00:18:00,947 --> 00:18:01,857

Um, et cetera.

397

00:18:01,867 --> 00:18:03,037

You're kind of what's the shtick.

398

00:18:03,089 --> 00:18:04,889

And then is it USA?

399

00:18:04,889 --> 00:18:05,569

Is it Canada?

400

00:18:05,569 --> 00:18:06,639

Is it international?

401

00:18:06,775 --> 00:18:07,195

So.

402

00:18:07,329 --> 00:18:10,349

When I get an assignment to do an

event, like I'm doing one for Bobcat,

403

00:18:10,419 --> 00:18:14,088

um, the heavy equipment company in two

weeks, I can go into the database and

404

00:18:14,088 --> 00:18:17,648

say, all right, what, what material

do I already have that might be

405

00:18:17,648 --> 00:18:19,468

most appropriate for this industry?

406

00:18:19,576 --> 00:18:22,946

And then if I don't feel like I've got

gold, then I'll go find some stuff.

407

00:18:23,103 --> 00:18:24,033

Brian: That's, that's great.

408

00:18:24,063 --> 00:18:26,963

I was doing some research last night and,

my kids were like, what are you doing?

409

00:18:26,963 --> 00:18:30,233

And I showed them the, um,

the pasta playlist on Spotify

410

00:18:30,393 --> 00:18:31,063

Jay: Isn't that amazing?

411

00:18:31,383 --> 00:18:31,943

John: So cool.

412

00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:32,280

Brian: Yeah.

413

00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:33,490

Can you, can you tell that one real fast?

414

00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,980

Jay: That's a relatively new one, um, that

they haven't been doing it too long and

415

00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:39,260

I haven't been talking about it too long.

416

00:18:39,335 --> 00:18:42,945

The thing about pasta is when you

make it perfectly it's perfect, but

417

00:18:42,945 --> 00:18:44,625

when you make it imperfectly it sucks.

418

00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:50,260

And what people don't understand very

often about dried pasta is that, of

419

00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:51,270

course, there are many different shapes.

420

00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:53,230

You got penne, you got

spaghetti, you got rigatoni, etc.

421

00:18:53,321 --> 00:18:54,831

And they each have different densities.

422

00:18:54,992 --> 00:18:58,392

Consequently, you really should

change your cook time slightly

423

00:18:58,392 --> 00:19:00,622

based on the density of the

dried pasta that you're using.

424

00:19:00,622 --> 00:19:02,282

But nobody talks about this

and nobody writes it down.

425

00:19:02,282 --> 00:19:06,392

And so, um, Barilla, which is either

the first or second largest provider

426

00:19:06,392 --> 00:19:07,672

of dried pasta, I'm not certain.

427

00:19:07,848 --> 00:19:10,527

Was doing a lot of social

media, listening as you should.

428

00:19:10,537 --> 00:19:13,904

And they realized that people were

like, sometimes aggravated about

429

00:19:13,914 --> 00:19:15,104

the pasta, not coming out, right.

430

00:19:15,134 --> 00:19:16,024

Undercooked, overcooked.

431

00:19:16,044 --> 00:19:17,914

They're like, huh, how could we fix this?

432

00:19:18,044 --> 00:19:22,744

So they, they went to Spotify and they

created a series of custom playlists.

433

00:19:23,214 --> 00:19:26,034

One for spaghetti, one for

rigatoni, one for penne, et cetera.

434

00:19:26,304 --> 00:19:27,994

So the way it works is

you boil your water.

435

00:19:28,118 --> 00:19:31,008

As soon as the water is at a

rolling boil, you hit play,

436

00:19:31,289 --> 00:19:32,549

you put the pasta in the water.

437

00:19:32,604 --> 00:19:35,314

And the playlist is a whole

series of kind of Italian songs in

438

00:19:35,314 --> 00:19:36,524

keeping with the theme of pasta.

439

00:19:37,004 --> 00:19:41,964

The second the playlist is concluded,

last song is over, you take the pasta out

440

00:19:41,964 --> 00:19:45,933

of the water and it is perfectly cooked

for that particular shape of pasta.

441

00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:49,220

And hundreds of thousands of people

have downloaded these playlists.

442

00:19:49,420 --> 00:19:51,650

I just think it's, of course,

doesn't cost anything.

443

00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:54,650

It's just a really good example

of transcending the transaction,

444

00:19:54,744 --> 00:19:57,714

which so much good marketing

really is rooted in that principle.

445

00:19:57,855 --> 00:19:59,955

Brian: Yeah, it's, it's a

great experiential thing.

446

00:19:59,955 --> 00:20:03,015

Just, you know, you're cooking pasta,

you're playing the Italian music.

447

00:20:03,015 --> 00:20:05,225

John: Yeah, that's a it's a great example.

448

00:20:05,875 --> 00:20:08,725

Jay, we go back to my talk

about your most recent book.

449

00:20:09,435 --> 00:20:12,535

You talk about some examples where.

450

00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,410

Too fast is a problem.

451

00:20:14,530 --> 00:20:18,070

You know, you, you, obviously you, you

make the compelling case for businesses

452

00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:22,400

need to evolve to become faster at

delivering great experiences, but too

453

00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,520

fast is not what you want if you're going

to a tattoo artist and, and, and nothing

454

00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:27,480

Jay: yeah, yeah,

455

00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,620

or an eye, or an eye surgeon, or any

number of things, or a divorce attorney.

456

00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:32,610

Um,

457

00:20:33,135 --> 00:20:36,685

John: And you also talk about some of

the ways companies are kind of pretending

458

00:20:36,685 --> 00:20:40,965

to take their sweet time to deliver

a thoughtful answer to, like, a chat

459

00:20:40,965 --> 00:20:44,315

question, right, where you get little dots

or even, you know, you hear the little,

460

00:20:44,475 --> 00:20:47,045

if you're on the phone call, you hear the

little do do do do do, you know, like, I'm

461

00:20:47,065 --> 00:20:51,045

thinking, uh, even though AI is spitting

it out pretty much instantaneously.

462

00:20:51,095 --> 00:20:51,435

Yeah.

463

00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:52,010

Jay: yeah.

464

00:20:52,010 --> 00:20:54,670

It's interesting, the reason I wrote

this book, well the reason I write

465

00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,348

all books that I write is, is, I see

what I think is a pattern or a trend

466

00:20:59,496 --> 00:21:02,906

or an opportunity for businesses

to outperform their competition.

467

00:21:02,906 --> 00:21:06,196

And then I researched that trend,

doing a lot of first party research,

468

00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:09,226

which costs me a ton of money, but you

know, I'm not just going to stand on

469

00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:11,876

a stage and tell you to do something

if I'm just, I don't have any proof.

470

00:21:12,067 --> 00:21:14,527

So as always, I did a bunch

of research on this topic.

471

00:21:14,527 --> 00:21:17,606

And my thesis was coming

out of the pandemic, we care

472

00:21:17,606 --> 00:21:18,896

about time more than ever.

473

00:21:18,994 --> 00:21:21,004

And, and that how we use time.

474

00:21:21,034 --> 00:21:24,054

is more precious to us

than it was pre pandemic.

475

00:21:24,231 --> 00:21:28,817

And, and all these trends that we

were talking about in the early post

476

00:21:28,837 --> 00:21:32,592

pandemic days, great resignation,

people working from home, not wanting

477

00:21:32,592 --> 00:21:34,318

to commute, et cetera, all this stuff.

478

00:21:34,395 --> 00:21:35,915

I was like, this is all the same trend.

479

00:21:35,975 --> 00:21:38,695

Like this is all the same trend, which

is we care about time more than ever.

480

00:21:38,975 --> 00:21:40,115

You can call it whatever you want.

481

00:21:40,115 --> 00:21:41,875

And there's different

manifestations of that trend.

482

00:21:41,875 --> 00:21:44,845

But the trend is that we care

about time more than ever.

483

00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:47,610

I wonder if that's actually true

or I just think it's true and I did

484

00:21:47,610 --> 00:21:49,170

the research and it is in fact true.

485

00:21:49,268 --> 00:21:52,968

Two thirds of customers now say

that speed is as important as price.

486

00:21:53,155 --> 00:21:56,755

And so the reality is when I talk

about this in the book and on stage

487

00:21:56,755 --> 00:22:00,784

when I'm asking businesses to do It's

not overhaul your entire business.

488

00:22:00,843 --> 00:22:04,670

It's elevate speed on your

list of priorities because

489

00:22:04,670 --> 00:22:06,000

your customers already have.

490

00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,472

And if you do that, all the data show that

customers will be happier, more loyal,

491

00:22:11,512 --> 00:22:14,856

will literally spend more money, will

tell more people about your business,

492

00:22:14,866 --> 00:22:19,117

like all the things you're trying to

achieve, will work if you're just faster.

493

00:22:19,117 --> 00:22:22,986

But, the point is true,

like, you can't take that.

494

00:22:23,865 --> 00:22:27,626

Dogma because there are circumstances

where you can be too fast and we are too

495

00:22:27,626 --> 00:22:30,522

fast What happens is it decays trust?

496

00:22:30,705 --> 00:22:35,198

so if you if you call a Surgeon,

you're like hey, I need to have

497

00:22:35,198 --> 00:22:37,418

this thing cut out of my shoulder.

498

00:22:37,512 --> 00:22:39,112

You're like cool What are you

doing in the next five minutes?

499

00:22:40,562 --> 00:22:42,592

You'd be like, wait a second, this,

500

00:22:42,902 --> 00:22:44,562

John: Why are you free right now to

501

00:22:44,592 --> 00:22:45,612

Jay: you are too available.

502

00:22:45,622 --> 00:22:47,012

This concerns me, right?

503

00:22:47,042 --> 00:22:51,636

So there's a very tight relationship

that we studied in the book, um,

504

00:22:51,646 --> 00:22:55,088

between time expectations and trust.

505

00:22:55,398 --> 00:22:59,933

So what you want in every business is, is

in every interaction with every customer.

506

00:23:00,007 --> 00:23:02,387

It's like the Goldilocks

zone for responsiveness.

507

00:23:02,434 --> 00:23:04,614

It's the perfect amount of elapsed time.

508

00:23:04,727 --> 00:23:06,137

And we call it the right now.

509

00:23:06,197 --> 00:23:09,007

The right now is the, like, perfect spot.

510

00:23:09,087 --> 00:23:11,837

And it's certainly not too slow,

because people hate to wait.

511

00:23:11,908 --> 00:23:14,158

But it's also not too fast,

because then they're like, Wait a

512

00:23:14,158 --> 00:23:15,668

second, this is gonna be terrible.

513

00:23:15,825 --> 00:23:21,252

So, the right now, the magic

formula, is to be slightly faster

514

00:23:21,348 --> 00:23:22,928

than customers expect you to be.

515

00:23:22,986 --> 00:23:25,856

So my, uh, this is not an example

that you guys have heard because

516

00:23:25,856 --> 00:23:29,325

it's not in the book or anything is

one of my friends, uh, good friends

517

00:23:29,325 --> 00:23:30,785

is an airline pilot for American.

518

00:23:30,892 --> 00:23:34,384

And he's the master of this slightly

faster than customers expect.

519

00:23:34,453 --> 00:23:38,093

When he gets something in his headset

from air traffic control that says,

520

00:23:38,093 --> 00:23:41,379

Captain Mendler, there's a plane

behind you can't back out of the gate.

521

00:23:41,439 --> 00:23:42,809

12 minute delay.

522

00:23:42,933 --> 00:23:46,033

He goes on the intercom says,

Hey, welcome to America airlines

523

00:23:46,213 --> 00:23:48,143

flight, whatever, from San Diego to.

524

00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:49,220

to Dallas.

525

00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:50,580

I just heard from air traffic control.

526

00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:51,540

There's a plane behind us.

527

00:23:51,540 --> 00:23:52,750

We can't back out just yet.

528

00:23:52,959 --> 00:23:55,259

they're expecting a 15 minute delay.

529

00:23:55,259 --> 00:23:57,799

So then when air traffic control gets

back to him, he says, okay, you're,

530

00:23:57,849 --> 00:23:59,189

you're, you're, you're clear to move back.

531

00:23:59,219 --> 00:24:00,389

And it's only been 11 minutes.

532

00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:03,943

He gets back on the intercom and

says, okay, ladies and gentlemen, I

533

00:24:03,943 --> 00:24:05,613

told you 15, but it's only been 11.

534

00:24:05,623 --> 00:24:06,503

We're backing out now.

535

00:24:06,503 --> 00:24:07,433

Can't wait to have a great flight.

536

00:24:07,433 --> 00:24:07,613

Right.

537

00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:09,009

And everybody's like psyched, right?

538

00:24:09,009 --> 00:24:11,964

They still had to wait 11 minutes,

but they're fired up because it's

539

00:24:11,964 --> 00:24:15,654

an expectations game more so than

a raw speed game in some cases.

540

00:24:17,089 --> 00:24:20,019

John: And you talk about, that expectation

game and going back to the idea of

541

00:24:20,029 --> 00:24:25,274

trust Obviously, speed is critical,

but there are times when there's a

542

00:24:25,284 --> 00:24:29,124

reason for it taking a certain time

that might be longer than the customer

543

00:24:29,124 --> 00:24:33,695

expectation, but addressing that

expectation up front saves the day.

544

00:24:33,695 --> 00:24:36,595

Can you talk a little more about that

idea of, you know, being up front

545

00:24:36,595 --> 00:24:40,025

about how long things are going to take

versus informing them on the back end?

546

00:24:40,242 --> 00:24:40,442

Jay: Yeah.

547

00:24:40,442 --> 00:24:43,734

And that's the, the, the latter is how

business has been operated for a long

548

00:24:43,734 --> 00:24:47,648

time, which is if you miss a deadline,

you apologize afterwards, right?

549

00:24:47,688 --> 00:24:49,024

And you sort of take the hit.

550

00:24:49,184 --> 00:24:53,124

, now that two things are true, one,

people care about time more than ever.

551

00:24:53,164 --> 00:24:57,264

And two, people aren't nearly as

good, especially young consumers,

552

00:24:57,594 --> 00:25:00,954

aren't nearly as good at

accepting that because we said so.

553

00:25:01,098 --> 00:25:01,348

Right.

554

00:25:01,398 --> 00:25:05,008

I mean, it's just, they just

don't, they, they want to know why.

555

00:25:05,179 --> 00:25:07,079

And partially it's the rise

of the internet, right?

556

00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:12,494

Like information and knowledge is

all around us like air in these times

557

00:25:12,654 --> 00:25:14,934

in a way that it wasn't in the past.

558

00:25:15,274 --> 00:25:17,024

I was having this conversation

with my wife the other day.

559

00:25:17,024 --> 00:25:18,921

We were watching something Grammys.

560

00:25:18,941 --> 00:25:19,851

I can't remember exactly.

561

00:25:19,911 --> 00:25:23,241

And, and Cher was on I

was like, how old is Cher?

562

00:25:23,251 --> 00:25:24,741

She's like, I don't know.

563

00:25:26,351 --> 00:25:28,111

Like, we, we really didn't know.

564

00:25:28,631 --> 00:25:30,171

John: You've been the

same age for 40 years.

565

00:25:30,441 --> 00:25:32,291

Jay: yeah, it looks the same for sure.

566

00:25:32,811 --> 00:25:36,421

Uh, so I just grabbed my phone,

you know, Siri, how old is Cher?

567

00:25:36,521 --> 00:25:38,531

Uh, and I think it's 78.

568

00:25:38,541 --> 00:25:39,091

Hold on, let me check.

569

00:25:39,651 --> 00:25:40,811

Hey Siri, how old is Cher?

570

00:25:41,153 --> 00:25:42,543

We're reenacting it for the podcast.

571

00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:44,233

77, 77.

572

00:25:44,313 --> 00:25:45,703

and that surprised me a little bit.

573

00:25:45,803 --> 00:25:49,803

And then I thought, you know, When we

were first married, if we wanted to

574

00:25:49,803 --> 00:25:55,138

know how old Cher was, we would have

had to get in the car, we would have

575

00:25:55,138 --> 00:25:59,212

to drive to the library when it's open,

we'd have to meet with a reference

576

00:25:59,212 --> 00:26:03,772

librarian, who presumably, would

have a book of celebrities and their

577

00:26:03,782 --> 00:26:08,007

birthdates, and that reference librarian

would help us find the piece on Cher,

578

00:26:08,397 --> 00:26:11,914

now, that would have taken,

I don't know, two hours?

579

00:26:12,004 --> 00:26:12,284

Brian: Yeah.

580

00:26:12,729 --> 00:26:13,249

Jay: And no,

581

00:26:13,469 --> 00:26:14,639

John: the right window, it would

582

00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:15,229

Jay: yeah, and

583

00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:15,389

no,

584

00:26:15,569 --> 00:26:16,209

John: you would have had to wait.

585

00:26:16,959 --> 00:26:21,039

Jay: no sane or employed person

would, would spend that kind of time.

586

00:26:21,194 --> 00:26:23,114

And so you know what we did in those days?

587

00:26:23,114 --> 00:26:24,994

It was a, it was a novel concept.

588

00:26:25,224 --> 00:26:27,404

We would just say, I don't know.

589

00:26:27,578 --> 00:26:29,598

That information is evidently unknowable.

590

00:26:30,062 --> 00:26:31,532

And we were totally okay

591

00:26:31,682 --> 00:26:33,142

John: again, that was good enough for us,

592

00:26:33,312 --> 00:26:35,922

Jay: People are not okay

with I don't know anymore.

593

00:26:36,282 --> 00:26:39,222

So if you're going to disappoint them,

or you're going to bait and switch

594

00:26:39,222 --> 00:26:41,482

them intentionally or unintentionally,

or you're going to confuse them,

595

00:26:41,482 --> 00:26:43,272

whatever, you just have to explain it.

596

00:26:43,722 --> 00:26:47,702

And you have to explain it in a way

that satiates their need to know.

597

00:26:47,886 --> 00:26:53,976

You proactively inoculate against

people's ire around time, as opposed

598

00:26:53,996 --> 00:26:55,736

to hoping for the best on the back end.

599

00:26:56,354 --> 00:26:59,082

Brian: uh, I can't tell you how many,

uh, parties always ended with arguments

600

00:26:59,082 --> 00:27:03,007

around what, you know, what was the

answer to a question and you just, it's

601

00:27:03,007 --> 00:27:06,057

great, or you thought somebody was a

genius and you just didn't know, you

602

00:27:06,057 --> 00:27:10,097

know, that's so much easier to have

conspiracy theories back then, cause you

603

00:27:10,117 --> 00:27:11,757

just had to be like, is that really true?

604

00:27:11,757 --> 00:27:13,596

Right.

605

00:27:13,837 --> 00:27:14,807

Jay: about bar bets.

606

00:27:15,007 --> 00:27:16,637

There's no books about bar bets now.

607

00:27:16,744 --> 00:27:17,774

I just ask my phone.

608

00:27:17,851 --> 00:27:18,171

Brian: Right.

609

00:27:18,332 --> 00:27:21,842

You're quick to also say that, being

fast doesn't always mean being free.

610

00:27:21,882 --> 00:27:27,212

And so everybody, uh, knows about the

concept of, you know, the fast pass

611

00:27:27,212 --> 00:27:30,712

from Disney, uh, you have some cool

examples about how other companies are

612

00:27:30,762 --> 00:27:33,972

employing convenience in exchange , for

additional fees and things like that.

613

00:27:34,562 --> 00:27:34,962

Jay: Yeah.

614

00:27:34,962 --> 00:27:39,605

You know, and at first, when I started

thinking about this, I believed it to

615

00:27:39,615 --> 00:27:46,887

be really a, a, a technique for solving

your own Kind of volume problems that

616

00:27:46,897 --> 00:27:52,180

that, you know, Disney Disney parks in

particular are trying to even out the flow

617

00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:54,380

of guests so that it's not a stampede.

618

00:27:54,524 --> 00:27:56,244

And consequently, you do a fast pass.

619

00:27:56,244 --> 00:27:57,538

They call it genie plus.

620

00:27:57,538 --> 00:27:59,308

Now, at one point, it's called

lightning lane, I believe.

621

00:27:59,438 --> 00:28:03,698

And so the idea is that you pay an extra

fee and you get to enter the park earlier.

622

00:28:03,827 --> 00:28:08,095

Beer festivals sometimes do this, they

have an hour before a general admission

623

00:28:08,105 --> 00:28:12,395

that costs a little bit more and you get

access to beers without a huge crowd, etc.

624

00:28:12,785 --> 00:28:18,155

And so I always thought about that

premise in the context of physical

625

00:28:18,185 --> 00:28:19,615

events and crowd management.

626

00:28:19,701 --> 00:28:22,791

But then I started thinking about we

mentioned it earlier kind of the the

627

00:28:22,801 --> 00:28:26,551

emergency plumber kind of folks right

like and it's because I had an emergency

628

00:28:26,561 --> 00:28:29,193

plumber and I was like, well, wait a

second, you know, I needed them to come

629

00:28:29,193 --> 00:28:32,418

out Sunday night and they're like, sure,

but we're going to charge you more.

630

00:28:32,418 --> 00:28:33,558

And I thought, well, that's weird.

631

00:28:33,868 --> 00:28:35,988

Why isn't there like an emergency deli?

632

00:28:36,028 --> 00:28:36,918

Like, why isn't there?

633

00:28:37,178 --> 00:28:37,578

You know, why?

634

00:28:37,598 --> 00:28:38,663

Why can't you?

635

00:28:38,874 --> 00:28:44,084

You know, if, if, if I care that much

about it, why can't I pay more to get

636

00:28:44,084 --> 00:28:46,164

whatever I want whenever I want it?

637

00:28:46,367 --> 00:28:50,617

And I started to, to research this and,

and in the, in the, in the big research

638

00:28:50,637 --> 00:28:53,836

project that underpins the book, The

Time to Win, which you can get on Amazon.

639

00:28:54,326 --> 00:28:56,206

The book's only like

9 cause it's so small.

640

00:28:56,370 --> 00:29:02,381

and what we found was that one in

four customers will pay as much as 50

641

00:29:03,001 --> 00:29:08,241

percent more to in four customers will

pay as much as 50 percent more to not

642

00:29:08,241 --> 00:29:10,001

wait and, and, and for whatever reason.

643

00:29:10,311 --> 00:29:12,131

Um, they, they procrastinated.

644

00:29:12,471 --> 00:29:15,421

Um, they got more money than

they probably should have.

645

00:29:15,711 --> 00:29:17,021

They just want stuff now.

646

00:29:17,041 --> 00:29:18,941

There's a lot of reasons

why that might be the case.

647

00:29:19,052 --> 00:29:22,642

But that is a colossal

financial opportunity.

648

00:29:23,022 --> 00:29:25,032

And not just for emergency plumbers.

649

00:29:25,032 --> 00:29:28,232

And so then I started to collect

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