LaRose Pushes for New State of Ohio Constitution Amendment Standard

Episode 9 • 23rd November 2022 • Common Sense Ohio • Common Sense Ohio

Brett: It's Wednesday, November 23. The day before Thanksgiving. And yes. No, I'm not Steve Palmer. Steve had some court date stuff to do, so he said, uh, Brett, Norm, take the reins. Do some common sense. So he's, okay, we can do that. So Norm Murdoch sitting right beside me. You know, I was driving in and thinking that Thanksgiving does not have an official playlist like Christmas, but all of a sudden popped on my SiriusXM is John Denver Country Roads, Take Me Home. And if there is ever a song that should be a, uh, Thanksgiving song, that's it. And I would encourage anyone doing the long drive to Grandma, Grandpa's, mom and Dads, play that song. If you cannot harmonize while you're singing that song, you are totally toned as that is so many levels of harmonization possibility. Yeah, I'd forgotten. It brought a tear to my eye singing that song. And I'm not from West Virginia. No, it's just a great song. Play it on the drive, you'll have the whole car singing it and pick where you want to be. Harmonizing it and really listen to the words. I think it'll set the tone for Thanksgiving.

Norm: John Denver just keeps getting better and better as you age out, doesn't he?

Brett: He does.

Norm: Yeah. The sentiments and his songs are universal, and you can go right down through his catalog. Um, and yeah, it's great stuff. Um, I'm also appreciative, uh, of a lot of those old timing, uh, tunes. Um, Nat King Coal, uh, Chestnuts Over an Open Fire, some of those classics. Mahalo Jackson, uh, Aretha Franklin, uh, Dean Martin, Glenn Campbell, some of that stuff that maybe we thought was a little corny when we were kids, or we.

Brett: Just heard it so many times growing up, but now, all of a sudden, it brings back those memories.

Norm: Yeah. My parents, of course, middle class people, they love Bird background and all that, and Barbara Streisand. But, hey, some of that's really great music. If you could kind of put away your sarcastic attitude and, uh, set aside some time to just be a little bit more pure in spirit and listen to the music, uh, and reflect. It's great stuff. It is really nondestructive. It's pro unity. It's togetherness. It's not about division. It really is uplifting in that way.

s put an age to them. They're: 1970

Norm: Sure. Books, ah, movies. It's a Wonderful Life was just kind of a throwaway movie. Jimmy Stewart did a great job, of course. And look, uh, at that. It's a Christmas staple. Um, now you can't go through Christmas without doing that. Or Rudolph, or Christmas Story. Christmas story. Charlie Brown? Almost. Those are great, um, because you hear.

Brett: The back story on, especially like the Charlie Brown specials. CBS did not want that thing to air. I think it might have been the Thanksgiving one, possibly not the Christmas one. Um, but it's still being played 50 years later. They did not when they in fact, I think they put it up against another big Thanksgiving tradition show and it beat it in the ratings.

Norm: Remember, uh, when Charlie looked up into heaven and said, the day that Jesus was born and I about fell off the sofa because it was such a confirmation of the universal sense that America is a JudeoChristian, uh, founded. And based a, uh, country in terms of our constitution, our declaration of independence, and the ethics of the common law that we got from England is all based really on Christian virtues. And to hear a cartoon character created by Charles Schultz, uh, on CBS talk about Jesus, I was just thinking, wow, this is almost revolutionary. This is pretty much unheard of. Even back in the 70s, it was kind of radical to go there because people were starting to be ultra careful and ultra conscious of keeping God out of things. And here it was in primetime with a uh, major network inserting Christ into a message right there. I mean, it could have been bolder, it was almost shocking. And I thought a lot about that. And I still do remember that scene in the Charlie Brown Christmas. And uh, it's remarkable. It reminds me a little bit of, um, the astronauts in Apollo Eight when they emerge from the backside of the moon and saw Earth rise and started to read from Genesis mhm. And people were like, holy cow, who are these guys? Now, of course, this is a government paid operation as opposed to a commercial TV, which obviously a TV station can say whatever. There's no separation between church and state arguments when it comes to a private company. But, um, you've got these guys coming around the back side of the moon. And I believe it was Frank Lovell who was commander on that, um, not Frank level. Frank was his first name. He became the president of Eastern Airlines, but he was the commander on that mission. He started to read from Genesis, uh, and uh, obviously talking about God, uh, that was quite controversial, I remember, with some media. But it was one of those moments in American history where you kind of swallowed really hard and you went, wow, this is a strong endorsement of Christmas. Not the secular Coca Cola, Santa Claus Christmas, but what Christmas is really the uh, reason it's called Christmas Mass.

Brett: Exactly. Kind of tear the word apart, right?

Norm: Figure this out. It was amazing. And by the way, I think this is a strategy by Steve, uh, not being here today. Ah. Uh, he was supposed to bring the pumpkin pie, was that it?

Brett: Okay.

Norm: And I think this is his way of finagling out of that.

Brett: No, pi. I got a court date.

Norm: Yeah, right. Guys, I won't be at the recording session.

Brett: Uh, I thought he was going to go hunting, too, again with his son.

Norm: So maybe it was one of those he just kind of well, I'm glad he's not hunting us, buddy.

Brett: I know he's a sure shot.

Norm: Yeah, sure. Now, I got a Christmas thing for you. I think it's pretty interesting. So this flyer I have here, Brett, in front of me, this is, uh, from Omaha Stakes, which, as you know, has nothing to do with Ohio, but their flyer is promoting kolachi made in Youngstown, Ohio. And I thought, huh, holy cow. They don't make a lot of steel in Youngstown, Ohio, anymore, but they're still making Czechoslovakian, uh, and Hungarian and Polish. Ah, kolachi up there. And, um, it's really neat to me, uh, to see handmade, uh, this is right on the flyer from Omaha Stakes, handmade in Youngstown, Ohio, since 19 three, uh, kolachi from the Buttermade Bakery Company of Youngstown, Ohio. Uh, so, uh, you order it through I mean, obviously you can drive to Youngstown, Ohio, and order it right there in person. But I just thought this is really cool, uh, for just the holiday season. Omaha Steaks is, uh, putting Ohio made kolachi out there and, uh, god, the flavors are just dude, if you permit me. I mean, there's some unbelievable. So you got apple cinnamon, nut, raspberry, walnut, pumpkin cream cheese, pumpkin walnut, blueberry jam, poppy seed, raisin, chocolate, walnut, pecan, poppy seed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, down.

Brett: You didn't do one that didn't sound great.

Norm: I mean, just a honey walnut. I mean, come on. Anyway, hey, this is not a paid announcement, but it could have been for either one.

Brett: It could have been.

Norm: But, you know, uh, the show is all we are pro Ohio here. And I love the diversity, I love the ethnicity of Ohio, the cultures that are here. It's amazing. Uh, it's all good. And, uh, this is not, of course, to say that there aren't other, um, things going on with, uh, other cultures here. I know a lot of people that go eat Chinese on Christmas because many Chinese families don't happen to be Christian. And to them, it's another day of business.

Brett: And they stay busy.

Norm: They're busy. And I know numerous Christian families that will go and have a big Chinese dinner because that's the only restaurant open on Christmas at any rate. And I love that. I, uh, love all the cultural, uh, the mix. The melting pot here in Ohio is tremendous. Yeah, that caught my eye, and I just thought, that is tremendous.

Brett: Well, and it's fun, and every state has it to a certain degree that you have these pockets of culturalism too, that you know, the youngstowner, you're going to get certain types of foods. Cincinnati, you're going to get certain types of foods. And while you're there, you need to really dive in for sure to the type of food because it's authentic.

Norm: Sure.

Brett: It's genuine.

Norm: Cleveland Italian Village, right. You go that area in Cleveland and oh, m my God, there's like 15 Italian restaurants and you're in heaven.

Brett: Yes. And quite frankly, in Columbus, we don't I mean, we truly are a melting pot in Columbus, but we have all this type of food, but there was no genesis of it here.

? We have graveyards that are: 1000

Brett: Oh, wow.

Norm: Yeah. And I'm sure that's I guess in places like well, maybe even in Columbus, but like in Minneapolis for the Somali population, there's probably some kind of system of uh, communication. Maybe now it's Twitter or maybe it's Facebook. But I'm sure other cultures that have come since have uh, developed their own ways of trying to stay in touch with each other or being able to read the news in their home language.

Brett: Yes, I think that's that's smart too, to continue to pass along that language to their kids and their grandkids too. Uh, because there are nuances to every language that it's wherever part of the country they're from.

Norm: Yeah, I know, for example, some of my Mexican, ethnic Mexican friends in California whose parents are first generation immigrants who came in and um uh, came to America from Mexico. I know a few of them that just one generation later, believe it or not, don't even speak Spanish except to understand some of the keywords. When grandma or grandpa or whoever, maybe they go visit back in Mexico or maybe have them up or uh, mom and dad start speaking Spanish and they don't want to be left out of the conversation. But uh, the desire, a very strong desire I think still is to uh, when you see this, really with a lot of populations, is to um, assimilate that's where I think there's a strong drive, uh, not to be so different, to be accepted to be well.

Brett: You do get along. Not get along, but you get through.

Norm: The systems to be mixed in with.

Brett: Temporary just do well.

Norm: You're going to school with kids that speak English.

Brett: Yes.

Norm: And this is what I asked some of my friends that are in this situation. I was astounded I was like, we'll go out and somebody will obviously see that they're probably, uh, Latino and say sea hobla and they want to talk in Spanish. A couple of my friends are going, no, I'm sorry, I don't speak Spanish. And I've asked them and basically their explanation is hey, we were so excited to get to America. My parents were so excited to get here that they encouraged us to learn English. They encouraged us to assimilate as fast as we could so that we could get jobs, we could go to school, understand the teachers, uh, not to stand out, but um, to mix in. Not for any reason of shame or any reason of not being proud of their heritage but just to grab the reins and just dive right into the new culture that they're in. Uh, which I think is all good.

Brett: I don't think we're unique in that situation. If you move to another country, there is that home language that you probably ought to learn.

Norm: Right? Exactly.

Brett: You will probably get along better. Understand shopkeepers and stores, just, uh, get.

Norm: Along and teachers chatter on the playground. You want to dive in and mix in. Um, I think that's good. I think that was the intention, honestly, of many, um, people who were driving some of those laws that were requiring official government documents to only be in English. I don't think most of that was driven by enmity as much as it was, come on, people, you're in America. Let's all get it literally on the same page. Let's work towards a common basis for communication. And it may have come off wrong. It may have been a, ah, misfire. But I think that largely was the intention. I think it wasn't, uh, driven by, you know, any kind of um, prejudice. Uh, but now when you get your instructions with your Nikon.

Brett: Language so therefore the economy of it the economics, the business sense comes into play that, you know, your customers are going to need the directions in a certain language. So you print them off that way. I don't know of anything that doesn't have at least three languages to it in the instruction manual.

Norm: We have kind of, uh the pendulum has kind of swung from, you know, let's all speak English. Only now it's so far the other way. I was speaking to, um, a friend of mine who's an OBGYN doctor in, um, Columbus and um, he told me the story of what the government now requires in the way of a paid interpreter uh, for someone who does not speak English. And I said, what are you talking about? Because I just assume, uh, when he said, hey, Norm, if a Somali woman comes to my office, she's pregnant and she doesn't speak English, what I'm required to do is hire an officially sanctioned, approved interpreter. Um, I cannot rely upon, say, the Somali patient's sister who might come with her. And the sister says, hey, listen, I speak perfect English. Uh, I'll tell my sister, Here what you say. I'll be the interpreter. He's not allowed to do that. He has to hire. And I think the rate he told me the rate was something like two or $300 an hour. And he said, at that rate, I'm underwater on my billing. Um, I'm actually paying the patient. He's not paying the patient, but I'm actually paying more. There's more money going out for me to give this medical care than what I'm going to get reimbursed, uh, under the health care plan, under the insurance that this person, uh, has, uh, because of the wide variety of languages. Um, so there doesn't seem to be common sense.

Brett: Well, is it the relationship to the patient because of HIPAA that sister or daughter can't translate? Is that the deal?

Norm: I don't know. I think what it is, but a.

Brett: Family member ought to be able to be in there. Well, sure, because they can't rely on that translation.

Norm: Apparently, that's what it is. And you would think that there would be if the patient comes in with somebody that they trust, somebody they're comfortable with as the interpreter, you would think, hey, good enough, right? I mean, no, that's not how it works.

Brett: It's going to be another scenario of, like Steve says, follow the money.

Norm: Yes.

Brett: Okay. Who pushed what to make it happen and who's getting a portion of that translator's $200 an hour or whatever it might be.

Norm: Or it's some kind of regulation that is so, uh that we're seeking perfection instead of a common sense, ah, least cost, best way, best practices kind of thing, with the understanding that nothing's perfect, that the official interpreter could make a mistake.

Brett: Sure.

Norm: As well as the patient's sister or mother, whoever speaks English. Mhm. Um, at any rate, it just goes to show you that we are larding on costs to a lot of things. Now that happens to be healthcare, but you could probably pretty much do the same thing in the area of primary and secondary education. There's probably all kinds of things that you and I are not aware of in our daily, uh, lives where diversity is wonderful and it's great. But to the extent that we can all get on the same page, that allows us to be one community. And it's not prejudicial, it's not something that we would ask in order to ostracize anybody or keep anybody out. It's just a way of saying, look, you know, most of us speak English. Be good if you would learn English. That way, when President Biden gives a speech or when uh, FEMA has an emergency bulletin on the radio or the weather service talks about a tornado warning or whatever. It's going to be in English. It would be good if you knew English. That's not because we dislike you. That's not because you're not welcome here. And yet people will interpret the desire to have everybody try as best. Now, I'm not going to ask some 90 year old lady from Poland to become conversant in English in her elderly year. Uh, that's not what I'm talking I'm just saying it is good to have children, at least come up and learn English as their primary language in order for them to function. It's a proimmigration measure to welcome immigrants and to foster their integration into society for their own success.

Brett: It's looking in, um, safety.

Norm: It's looking out after that. Yes, for their own safety. People take shelter. There's a tornado. Well, if they say that in English and you don't speak English, that's really a problem for you. And I would hate anybody to be in that scenario.

Brett: Yeah, exactly.

Norm: Kind of got off on a side thing there, but good. Um, you had a topic, uh, that we didn't get to last week.

use I didn't do it. But since: 1912

Norm: Yeah, I don't, um, think if it's presented, if there's enough signatures and it is on the ballot, I don't think it'll pass. Um, I don't necessarily think it's a great idea, is my initial reaction. I'd like to hear more, uh, from the proponents of this. But my initial reaction, uh, even though I have not been happy with some of the amendments that the electorate has passed, um, and I think we largely have a lazy electorate. I mean, I'm still not satisfied, even though we've had record, ah, turnouts for the last couple of presidential elections, uh, we're still talking about a relatively small number of eligible voters who actually take the time to vote, uh, actually mail it in or come and vote in person. And so I'm not satisfied with, um, Ohio in their voting record. And I think, you know, we could talk about some Ohio constitutional amendments that have passed that have been mistakes, in my opinion. In my humble opinion. I can give reasons, and we could talk about that. However, I agree with you, Brett, that if you I mean, it's just logic. If you raise the standard to pass an amendment to approve an amendment, uh, up above 50%, uh, to 60%, or to some higher number. All you've done is elevated the height of the hurdle for the electorate to do something to either take away bad language or language that is viewed as bad, that's in the Constitution to change it that way or to add language, uh, or to change a number or to change a date or whatever is in the constitution that's in that amendment that the electorate is being asked to vote on, um, you're raising the hurdle and therefore diminishing the power of the electorate to make those changes. And Ohio was founded in 18 three, if it's always been 50%. In order to enact an amendment in Ohio has a huge number of um our constitution for our state is much longer than the federal constitution, and that's by design. Because under our federalism setup, um, in America, the states control much more of our day to day criminal and civil laws are far more, um and always we're supposed to be. Now, that's been nibbled away at rather huge chunks in the last probably, uh, 75, 80 years by the federal government. But the general concept of federalism is the federal government has very limited powers, very limited purview. That was the basis for the Dobbs decision, which said the, uh, topic of abortion is a state topic, it is not a federal topic. And all of this talk about passing some kind of other than funding bills, but all this talk about passing some kind of federal statute, uh, that would either permit or deny abortions, it flies in the face of the decision that the supreme court just made. The supreme court just made a decision that said neither we, the supreme court in Roe v. Wade, nor the Congress, nor the President can enact a law governing the subject, the subject matter, I e. Abortion. This is just an example, and we can give several other examples. We could talk about speed limits. We could talk about how, uh, we could talk about how police, uh, are trained. We could talk about a number of different subjects. All of those subjects that are not in the US. Constitution are reserved for the states. And so the state of Ohio's constitution, ergo, is much longer, larger, more comprehensive, more complex than the US. Constitution. And as Brett mentioned, roughly 28% of the amendments, uh, proposed, since I think you said that was the, um, research.

Brett: Yeah.

Norm: That gives us about 110 years of.

Brett: Uh, history, 100 years into the constitution as well.

Norm: Yeah, so just look at that, folks. And basically, that means that Ohioans have rejected more than 70% of the proposed amendments, like the marijuana franchise amendment that was proposed with basketball. Uh, star Oscar Robertson is one of the proponents behind that. And I think Dave Chappelle, I think, was also a backer of that, which is fine, that's their right, and they're participating in, uh, the affairs of the public affairs. I have no problem with that. But the voters voted that down. I think the voters will likewise vote down. Um, Mr. Le Rose's proposed amendment, uh, that the bar be raised to 60% of the votes would, uh, have to, uh, be in favor of any constitutional amendment if this were to pass. So I don't think it's going to pass. I think you mentioned in Arkansas, Deny Bread, that in Arkansas, similar, um, constitutional amendment was not approved by the voters there for largely I'm sure the same reasons the voters would realize their power to affect public affairs would be reduced. They would have less effect on what goes on in their state, uh, if the bar is set higher, for them to either rescind or to enact a change in the constitution of their state. So, um, unless, uh, the backers have some compelling argument that I'm not thinking.

Brett: That'S where I was going to go with it, too. I'd love to have Frank Frank back on and talk about that, or Mr. Stewart, anybody around this, because at least from that press conference, there was not enough information there to really warrant any second thought on this. Just because you've been thinking about this for a while, and, uh, yes, there's a lot of out of state money coming in, trying to sway us to vote one way or the other. Well, that's a constant.

Norm: Sure.

Brett: Come on.

Norm: That was true with the casino amendment right. That was true with the marijuana.

Brett: That's true with any candidates.

Norm: That's true.

Brett: Come on, dance. And his opponent.

Norm: Sure.

Brett: Tons of money coming from outside trying to sway us to vote for them. Absolutely right. It's just part of politics. Now, again, if he can prove more that there's been we've stopped a lot more than you realize. Okay, let's have a healthy conversation, and I'm sure it will come out. I'm sure it will, because I'm open to changing my mind if it looks like it's a bad thing. Okay, let's really consider it. Boy, that's a huge jump. 50% to 60%.

Norm: Oh, it is.

Brett: That's a big jump.

Norm: I mean, just think of how many elections, for example, um, I struggle to think of gosh, do you have to go back to, uh, Reagan, maybe? I struggled to think of, for example, a federal election, um, in recent memory, where somebody got 60% or more of the vote. Ah, I mean, it's rare now, uh, and so it's pretty hard to get 50%. And so, um, I don't see the need for this. It cuts both ways. Whether you're a liberal or a conservative, or whether you walk the fence and you're not inclined to partisan politics, it cuts both ways.

Brett: And Steve has made to count, uh, the definition, which I love the definition of conservativism is that conserving our rights. And that's exactly where I'm going with this, because I know I'll be on both sides of the fence with. A little bit more liberally and a little bit more conservatively. But this one's like, I don't give away rights. That you just like, that makes sense. Yes. All that money coming out from out of the state. Yeah. But you're giving away something that you can never get back. You will never get it back.

Norm: He may be frustrated by, uh, because he's in the unique position of certifying whether enough, uh, signatures have been on these petitions to put something on the ballot as a constitutional amendment measure. And it may be that he may be looking through his files and seeing what corporations and, uh, what interest groups are financing these, uh, petition measures. And it may occur to him, and maybe that's where this comes from, possibly, that he is just seeing so many self interested parties put up these measures and then Ohioans have to bat them down, that he feels like it's, um, some kind of a scam on the electorate. But the electorate is pretty smart. Generally. They have voted down most of these commercially viable, uh, kinds of amendments that would set up, uh, a monopoly or a near monopoly for either gambling or for, uh, marijuana. Uh, the electorates seen through that. So I think it's up to us, uh, the people out there that are churning the news and looking for issues to talk about. And it's up to the electorate to, um, educate itself and to listen to voices like ours. If we find something, uh, to be distasteful, believe me, we'll talk about it here.

Brett: Yeah, exactly. You had something too, right?

a period of I believe it was: 1200

Brett: Two last messages of sanity. Oh, my God, we're in trouble if that's the case too. Yeah.

Norm: And there's lots of good people. There are lots of good people here. But our society overall, our value system what you see in popular culture and what you see increasingly, um, being shouted down on social media, uh, and made fun of are people who try to come up with positive M meaning for life. And, um, Peterson gives a really good example because as a clinical psychologist, um, in some of his books he gives great examples of patient cases of people that like this. Carl Praz Ram, one of the most notorious mass killers in American history. Uh, he went into an institution where he was raped. Uh, he was starved, he was denied medical care, he was abused. And he came out a vengeful animal who wanted to kill other people and just wanted to take out the misery that he had experienced and inflicted on other people. And you wonder, okay, uh, well, how come everybody doesn't do that? And that is where there is rational. There is a rational sense of what is right and what is wrong that's built into most people. Because lots of people are abused and raped and denied healthcare and treated incorrectly and bullied and yet they don't go on to be mass murderers. And why is that? Well, because you can deal you can deal with adversity in multiple ways, as Nietzsche said. And you could be like Tolstoy, and walk around and a shoe, any kind of ropes or any kind of chain, and hide all your guns from yourself because you are so miserable. And you're so at the end of, um, your tolerance that you think you just would end it all. Tolstoy used to say, I keep rope and my guns away from me because I don't know at any moment that I might lose control of myself and kill myself because I am so miserable. And I believe that life has so little meaning. And that was Leo Tolstoy. But there's other people who deal with that. Take Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford grew up at Boys, an orphan, like our friend Steve, an orphan who was taken in by Boys Town, where some of those boys were adopted. Like Steve is related on this show, he was adopted. And they could be mad at the world forever and turn into some kind of monster. Like Jeffrey Dahmer, who had loving parents, but yet turned into a monster and killed a lot of people and thought that people didn't matter. They could have done that, but they didn't. And so I'm just thinking that these mass murders, dude, it isn't going to be about guns and knives. It isn't going to be about the implement that these people use to kill other people, because these mass murders are happening worldwide. They're happening in other cultures. And frankly, you can make a gun now with a 3D printer out of plastic. So we're not going to put the technology, uh, we're not going to be able to turn back the page. They make guns over campfires in Pakistan. Uh, kids can print one out. Uh, like I said on a 3D printer, that's not the issue. The issue is we have a sickness in our culture, and it's here in Ohio and it's everywhere, where it's not about hating other people for what they believe in. It's just about hating other people.

Brett: I think we have an opportunity, and I'm not going to say we're better than anyone else, but let me put it this way. We don't know really what we can do until we do it. And here being example. So just having the grace with other people and treating them as humans and having conversations that it could be a person who is needing that and reaching out and has grown up in such a horrible, horrible situation that all of a sudden, they see a bit of sanity just by relating to you and having a cup of coffee or having a conversation that can turn somebody and kind of go, wait a minute. Maybe life isn't all that bad. I'm seeing a glimmer of light. You hear those stories that they grew up in such horrible conditions, but they babysat for a family that actually were pretty cool. They talked as a family. They ate around the family dinner table. But you go home and it's chaos. But they take that example and run with it and kind of go, okay, my life does not have to necessarily be my life for the rest of my life. There are examples of it being better. You get drawn to it.

Norm: Right.

Brett: So don't underestimate what I think we can do. And we all have our issues, right? So give, uh, each other some grace. Yeah, that's kind of got to go in full circle about it's. Thanksgiving time.

Norm: I like that, Brett. I really tell each other. I remember a priest at Mass once. His favorite new, uh, saint is Mother Teresa, okay? And I know Mother Teresa is controversial with some people. Some people think she was like a businesswoman. Uh, she was in the fundraising business. Well, God bless her, you know, um, it takes money to operate a chair. That's the crass truth of it. And I remember the priest telling a story that she was in Calcutta and she was appealing to a local businessman. And I don't know what his problem was, but she was asking for money. And he spit in her face. Uh, he actually spit in her face, literally, and said, no, I'm not going to give you money. You're here in Calcutta. Look around you, lady. Are you out of your mind? Look around you and see the size of the problem. Look at how many people here have open sores or their ribs are showing because they don't have any food, or, um, they're sickened from the water going down the Ganges River. They're in complete misery. And your little effort, um, here today to work with maybe twelve, maybe 10, 12, 20 people today when there's literally 20 million people suffering, uh, is a joke. And so I spit at you. And she said, okay, you could spit on me, but what do you have for God? What do you have for God? You know, you could spit on me. You can tear me down. You could tell me I'm useless. You could tell me I don't matter. That's fine, but I'll take that. But what do you have for God? And this guy was dumb struck by it. He went home and he thought about it, and he came back and he gave her thousands of dollars and said, you're right.

Brett: You're right.

Norm: It starts with each of us. And she put her hand on him and said and said he says, But, Mother, where are you going to start? You solve something where you have millions of people. There's just one of you. You're one little old lady. You're one little old lady with a scarf over your head, right? And a few other nuns with you, the minor denomination of nuns. What the hell are you going to do? A few dozen nuns with millions of people in need. And she says, I'm going to start with this one and then I'm going to go to that one and then it's just what you said, Brett. It's one by one. Lives we can each touch, lives that we can affect, each of us. And if every person listening and if every person who then you talk to that's not listening, and spread this philosophy out that we all take personal charge for our culture and we live as best we can. Exemplary talk is cheap. Do you live your life in a way that's illustrative to your children and to other people that observe you? Do you do things with kindness? Do you do things with grace? Or do you show your kids that you'll cut this Honda Odyssey driver off and damn their killer because you're mad that she's not paying attention at the traffic light or whatever it is. So what kind of a person are you? Uh, whether you believe in tithing or whether you believe in just pitching in, helping somebody, a spinster who needs a new roof and some guys get together on Saturday and re roof your house. Whatever you can do in your own community, whatever you can do to show these young people that it tends to be young people that are these mass, uh, murders. But if they observe acts of grace, acts of sacrifice, personal involvement, hey, you know, grab those guys, grab those young men, uh, and try to involve them. I think you're right, Brett. I think that's the only way it's going to happen. Invite them to go to church and when they laugh at you, say, hey, wait a minute, there's usually donuts. And, uh, coffee afterwards. And if you hate God, hang out. Talk to the minister, talk to the rabbi, talk to the imam, talk to the priest. You know, express your bitterness and your hatred and your anger because there's answers to that. Uh, you don't have to be alone. You can discuss these issues. You can get help in counseling.

Brett: Right? I think it's worthy of the discussion and doing these acts and boy, we're bringing this really back down, back to Thanksgiving. Don't expect the feedback. You're m just doing it to do it. You're probably going to feel really good about doing it anyway. Just do it. Don't expect to. Thank you. I can give you one example.

Norm: No, you may be hated. Actually, you probably will be right. When you extend an offer to somebody to help them, a lot of times you will get that rejected just by your own sons and daughters.

Brett: For sure.

Norm: We'll say, hey, dad, you're kind of dumb. You really don't know what's going on. You don't know what the culture is like, where I go to school or what I experience. And you may get rejected, but you keep offering in a way that's nonjudgmental, that's just open and says, hey, let's talk. Let's see what we can do. I'm here to be a resource. I'm not going to order you to do something, uh, once you're an adult, if we're talking minor children, well, you damn well better put your foot down and make sure that they come in at a decent hour and who their friends are and set an example. Listen, if you're smoking and drinking and doing that in front of your kids, guess what? You're pretty much giving them permission. What's going to happen? Same thing if you're, uh, raging against some ethnic minority and every day you're using a word about that minority. Um, or, uh, you're bitter and angry about something about a particular group of people that love, uh, people in a way that's different from you. And you want to say something about that every day in front of your children. Well, you're just creating more hate. Mhm. And there's just no reason at all.

Brett: Not really.

Norm: The big hero out there at the Q Club was an ex U. S. Army officer that took his hetero family, his wife, his hetero daughter, his heterose son.

Brett: It was comedians on stage, right?

Norm: I don't know what it was. I thought it was a drag night or something.

Brett: Like something was on stage.

Norm: And the reason this, if you will quote, bear M with me, people don't don't be angry. Quote, normal, unquote family, hetero family, father, son, mother, daughter. The reason they went to that club is the daughter had a classmate, she grew up with one of her best friends who was going to perform in this drag show. And so the family went there to support him. Okay? They happened to be there when this guy came in the non binary, self described non binary guy, uh, with a long gun and started killing people. I think he killed four people. And this guy, who was not a regular at the club, was there as a guest, there as a member of the audience. He disarmed this guy along with, I think, one of the dancers. And they got him on the ground and basically held him at bay until the police got there. Otherwise, there would have been a lot more killing. Um, it just goes to show you that our community of people, we don't all have to be the same to take care of each other. And we don't have to agree on what, uh, love means, uh, might mean something different to me than it means to you. I don't care about any of that. I don't care what color you are. I don't care, you know, I love everybody. I don't care who do you go to that bed with, and none of that. As long as you're not hurting minors, and as long as it's consensual, and as long as there's no physical violence. I pretty much I am the classic conservative. I'm the classic libertarian. And I think that's m, uh, frankly, I think most people think that way anymore. But we have to do something about the people who feel like there is no purpose in life. Those are the people that I think are very dangerous to themselves and to the rest of us. And if they don't think life has any meaning, uh, and if there's no moral code, if they don't believe in the Ten Commandments, or if they don't believe in any other kind of moral or ethical code, well, then why wouldn't you just pull out a gun and kill somebody if they cut you off in traffic? Because it wouldn't matter, right? There's no judgment. There's no God, there's no heaven, there's no hell. So gosh. It doesn't mean anything. Uh, it's like squashing a cockroach to kill another human being if you think like that. And that is we can't tolerate that, or we will be the cockroaches. There won't be any more people. Because at some point, you get a disaffected artist, a failed artist like Adolf Hitler, who gets to run an entire country and almost had a dirty bomb, uh, almost had atomic weapons. He certainly had a delivery system. And, hey, that can happen again in North Korea, could happen in Russia, it could happen in China, it could happen in many places. It could happen with Pakistan, Iran, a number of places where crazy people with much bigger guns than an AK or an AR 15, okay, have the instruments to destroy humanity. And we have to get to the young Stalin, the young Hitlers, the young Columbine killers, the young Uvaldi guy, the guy down there at, uh, the guy who did that horrible shooting in Newtown, Connecticut. We have to get to people like that early on and try to save them in order to save ourselves.

Brett: I agree. And to that end, I think we come to an end.

Norm: Yes, sir.

Brett: For this common, uh, Sense Ohio episode, of course, we're running dual lanes. You're going to hear this episode in the Lawyer Talk lane. Steve has not given up on his, um, Lawyer Talk questions or deep dives. Those are still coming. He's been promising that. And actually, I know he's got them on a piece of paper, ready to roll and recording those. So, uh, stick around for the Lawyer Talk, uh, podcast. Stay. Subscribed to that. If you haven't subscribed to Common Sense Ohio podcast, please do so. These will continue in that lane. We'll probably continue to do the dual lane for a bit more, uh, so you have that easy transition, but we're having fun doing this. Please give, um, us some comments and feedback. We've got I think our website up. Either it is now or will be very, very soon common Sense Ohio show.com. And we'll, uh, cross reference that and put all that stuff in the show notes so you get an easy access point. But that is common sense, Ohio. Until now.

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