Season 2, Episode 4 | "We're so used to being consumers, we're consumed, and we think it's normal. Freedom is to release."

In this episode of Strong & Awake, Dane and Mitch explore the concept of "Traveling Light". They discuss how overpacking—whether it's physical items for a trip or emotional and mental burdens—can weigh us down and distract us from what truly matters. They emphasize the importance of making conscious choices to carry only what you need and the profound freedom that comes from letting go of excess of all kinds. By front-loading the effort to decide what is essential, you can engage more fully with your reality and experience a more fulfilling life. Join the conversation to learn practical steps for decluttering your life and mind, and discover the power of voluntary discomfort in achieving true freedom.

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 04:02 Anchors to Reality
• 09:43 Have What You Need
• 12:36 The Burden of Mental and Emotional Weight
• 21:32 Backwards Strategies
• 24:56 Limiting Optionality for Greater Freedom
• 31:23 Action Steps for Traveling Light
• 35:49 The Importance of Community

Mentions:

• Second Law of Thermodynamics: Mentioned in the context of entropy and energy dissipation.
• Stoicism: Referenced in relation to controlling one's response to events.
• Parkinson's Law: The adage that "work expands to fill the time available for its completion."
• Marie Kondo: Referenced for her method of decluttering
• Annie Leonard: Creator of the documentary "The Story of Stuff," which discusses consumerism and its environmental impact.
• Amazon: Mentioned in the context of consumer habits and the ease of acquiring goods.
• Greg McKeown: Author of "Essentialism," a book about focusing on what is truly essential.
• Ryan O'Neal (Sleeping at Last): Musician known for using creative constraints in his work.

Anchor Actions:

1. Simplify Your Environment: Start with one area of your life, such as your workspace or a junk drawer. Remove everything from that space, and only put back what you absolutely need. Donate, recycle, or throw away the rest. This physical act of decluttering can lead to mental clarity and a sense of freedom.

2. Identify and Release Mental Burdens: Take a "mental inventory" while on a walk or during a quiet moment. Identify unresolved issues or relationships weighing you down. Commit to one action to address each burden, such as making a phone call, writing a letter, or having a necessary conversation.

3. Adopt an Essentialist Approach to Daily Decisions: For the next week, consciously limit your choices. Use a smaller bag, reduce your wardrobe to a capsule collection, or set strict limits on daily tasks. Notice how fewer options can lead to greater focus and satisfaction.

Join Us:

Our Membership Community (MWOD) is where we embrace discomfort as a path to personal development. Remember, it's probably not for you... but if we're wrong about that, or if you want to find out for yourself, visit us at MWOD.io 🦬

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Disclaimer:

The information shared on this podcast and any related materials from Men & Women Of Discomfort (MWOD) or Flying S Incorporated are for general informational purposes only. You should not use this information as a basis for making decisions without consulting your own medical and legal professionals. We aim to provide accurate and up-to-date information, but we make no guarantees about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability, or comprehensiveness of the content.

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*Transcript Note: The transcript of our podcast is AI-generated and may contain errors. We aim for accuracy but appreciate your understanding and feedback on any discrepancies.

Copyright 2024 Men & Women Of Discomfort (MWOD.io)

Dane: 00:00

Confusion is a strategy, an unconscious strategy to not have to deal.

Dane: 00:04

I know this because I'm so confused all the time. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And the irony is once you decide to do, you figure it out.

Dane: 00:12

We're so used to being consumers. We're consumed and we think it's normal. And freedom is to release.

Dane: 00:18

Have everything you need, but no more, because the rest is just waste.

Dane: 00:23

We don't want junk. You want the stuff that gives you life and to get access to that requires this real discipline. This discipline that happens on the daily of staying awake to, well, what do I want? What do I need to get what I want?

Dane: 00:36

And making sure that's all you have. Cause everything else is just a distraction.

Dane: 00:39

But more than all of that, it requires action.

Dane: 00:42

If we're willing to front load the effort of deciding we get this remarkable, enormous benefit. And it turns out that often gets us to the thing we want most, which is actually engaging in the reality that we're in.

Dane: 00:57

As humans we prefer the path of least resistance. We crave convenience, the payoff without the price. But when our lives revolve around comfort, it doesn't deliver. Living in perpetual comfort leaves us weak and asleep. This podcast is an invitation to flip that script, to choose the unlikely path, to get the life you really want through voluntary discomfort.

Dane: 01:21

This is Strong & Awake. I'm Dane Sanders.

Mitch: 01:26

Dane, I've got a story for you.

Dane: 01:27

I'm all ears, man.

Mitch: 01:29

I recently got back from a little staycation of all things, not even an actual long distance trip. And I was unpacking my bag and inevitably this happens every time I get to the bottom of the suitcase and I see shirts that are still folded that I never touched.

Mitch: 01:47

Like four pairs of underwear or three pairs of shoes that I never used. And this is something that comes up a lot for me for travel. I've gotten better at it over years, but this idea of overpacking of loading up my suitcase or the metaphorical suitcase, if you will, with things that I. Don't need.

Dane: 02:10

And you might

Dane: 02:11

need, you might

Dane: 02:11

need,

Mitch: 02:12

I might need them.

Mitch: 02:13

I might need them. I wheeled this thing around. I was toting kids. I was carrying boogie boards. I was carrying so much weight and while I managed to do it, I can imagine a much better experience had I not had that extra burden that I carried around that weekend.

Dane: 02:33

Yeah.

Mitch: 02:33

And that leads us to what we're talking about today, which is this whole idea of traveling light and obviously not just with air travel or vacations, but in life. Do you have any experiences like that, Dane?

Dane: 02:45

Of course,

Dane: 02:46

yes, every day, all the time. And, and it's not just my own. It's also with my wife.

Dane: 02:50

Like, so let's say we're going on a, on a car trip as opposed to a plane trip. And she's like, we have so much space in the car. Let's fill it. You know, why, why, what, what if, you know, and with a, you know, to be fair, I do think it's a little easier for dudes than it is for, you know, Ladies, uh, in certain contexts, um, around, you know, having the right thing in the right moment, I think guys will weigh with a little bit, uh, more perhaps, at least that's, that's the story I'm going to stay with to keep my marriage intact.

Dane: 03:21

Uh, but I, I will say this, um, even when you have space, if you don't leave it, if you don't go through, there's a, there's a labor that's required on the front end that it's a tax. It's a serious burden that you pay later. Uh, if you're not aware, but, but let's back up because again, this is a part of a series, right?

Dane: 03:44

Where we're talking about anchors to tether ourselves to reality, to kind of optimize our perspective relative to what it's like to navigate a very difficult world and in particular, some response to three things. The first thing, and even though this is familiar territory for folks who listen regularly.

Dane: 04:02

It's always resourceful to pause and consider the, this trifecta and how it shows up every single day in all of our lives. So the first one is the drift, of course, it's this entropy, energy dissipating, second law of thermodynamics. Uh, why, why hot coffee turns cold, um, it's energy is always dissipating from our lives, whether we pay attention to it or not, or not.

Dane: 04:23

And when we wake up, we have more energy than we do when we're going to sleep every day. Um, so that's just a phenomenon that's true about the human condition. Second, another truth with human condition is things happen to us. Uh, we call them whirlwinds at men and women of discomfort, uh, the whirlwind of being a human being are that things happen to you that you can't control.

Dane: 04:42

All you can control as a stoic say is what you do in response. And as a result, uh, the question then becomes, well, what ought we do in response to those things? Um, and it turns out there's some really interesting things that we think that are uncomfortable that are very worth doing. Uh, and then the third part of course, is we're never tempted to do the uncomfortable thing.

Dane: 05:03

We're tempted to do the comfortable thing, the convenient thing, the easy thing. And, um, As a result, especially because our, our entire economic culture is built around this notion of getting something fast, quicker, easier, um, and all of these, these promises of relief from the discomforts of life.

Dane: 05:25

Ironically, there's this higher call, this disciplined call. To choose the uncomfortable path, uh, the unlikely path to the life that most people want once they have it, but most people want the results without the process. So we talk a lot about the process, this practice, and part of it is anchoring ourselves to some big ideas.

Dane: 05:43

We've had had a chance to talk about a lot of those already. We're about halfway through, but today's conversation around traveling light is particularly relevant in a world where we have so much in a world of abundance, where we can carry more, there's room in the car to put more stuff. Um, I forget which, Law it is, but which is the law where, uh, whatever size of thing you have, you'll fill it to that size.

Dane: 06:09

Uh, is that Perotti's law?

Mitch: 06:10

Parkinson's law,

Dane: 06:11

Parkinson's law. That sounds right. I, one of these. And, um, and it, it seems true. I used to be a professional photographer. And I remember the goal was to get at the beginning of my career, the biggest bag I could, cause I can carry all the gear. And by the end of my career, 12 years later, my goal was to have the smallest bag possible.

Dane: 06:30

Cause I would only be able to bring what I needed. And that's everything I needed and no more. And that was magic. Uh, and as I, I began to realize and really part of it was discerning, like what is significant, like relevant and necessary and what isn't, and I get that it takes time to figure that stuff out, but as we figure that out, if we're willing to front load the effort.

Dane: 06:55

Of deciding of actually removing options for later down the road later and down the road. We get this remarkable enormous benefit remarkable cognitive load. No, this or that. It's this is what I got and I'm going to make this work. And it turns out that often gets us to the thing we want most, which is actually engaging in the reality that we're in.

Dane: 07:20

Not having options on how we could get out of it or do something different. Um, and, and traveling light, it's also just, it's less of a burden. Um, I'm reminded of like that old, you know, you go for a long, a long backpack, uh, hike and you're carrying, you know, 40, 60 pounds. My friend Mitch just climbed Denali, another Mitch in my life.

Mitch: 07:44

Yeah, not me. Not yet.

Dane: 07:45

Yeah. Different Different . Yeah. And, and, uh, dude's carrying 80, a hundred pounds worth of gear. Wow. And he gets to camp, uh, to pause and set up camp. 'cause that's what he was carrying was the entire camp on his back. And he gets there and he gets to take it off. And you imagine the relief of like taking that burden off.

Dane: 08:03

Well what if you didn't have to put it on in the first place? Mm-Hmm. . What if you actually got to walk the path because you made the hard choices early to have the better. hike later, even if it meant you had a few less options once you stopped and took the pack off.

Mitch: 08:21

Yeah. And my hunch is that your friend Mitch is, is like a, an ultralight backpacker.

Mitch: 08:28

He probably is very disciplined about What he brings and what he doesn't bring yet. Still. This has a tendency to creep in to even those that are practicing this proactively. So again, this is a, this is not something that you just do once and then forget about it. This is a daily practice, which of course we'll, we'll get into later, but I think

Dane: 08:46

let's go further.

Dane: 08:47

It's an hour practice.

Mitch: 08:50

Moment by moment.

Dane: 08:51

Moment by moment. Like, do I have everything I need? What else do I, am I carrying and do I really need all of these pieces or not? And, and I found that, you know, one of the little hacks, I wasn't planning on pulling this up, but it just happens to be on my left is, uh, and we referenced it earlier.

Dane: 09:09

It's just like, get a smaller backpack, smallest backpack you can find. Um, and then go well, that's the constraint. I'm going to live within that constraint and only put in the important stuff first. And if I have to have to upgrade that backpack, at least I've gone through a process of discernment. But oftentimes, I actually have plenty of space in the small backpack plenty and and what or no backpack crazy.

Dane: 09:36

What in the world? How do you do that? Well, you get in front of it. And, uh, and it's not lost on me that last time we were together, we talked about fueling first and it's, it's not, um, uh, it's amazing how these, these, these tethering ideas can compliment so well, because when you put fuel in the tank early, you need fewer accessories to navigate life.

Dane: 10:02

So you have the fuel you need, and oftentimes, especially from a minimalistic perspective, you have most everything from there. That's sufficient. Um, especially if you've been in a practice over and over and over again, day in, day out, practicing things like fueling first and actually constantly purging, uh, being a minimalist.

Dane: 10:25

Um, one last example. There was a year where I decided to travel light, uh, uh, in my house and there was two major initiatives. The first was every day. The one was at the end of the year. Um, and what I did was every week I never, and it contributes to every day. I got a big white kind of bin. And my job was to fill that bin every week and get rid of it on, on the weekend at Goodwill.

Dane: 10:49

And I would do that again and again, did 52 times at 52 little receipts to prove it. And can imagine. Like how the, how relieving it felt just to carry less stuff in my home. And then we actually, at the end of that year, actually got to move. And, uh, we actually, instead of getting a truck to move, we actually got a dumpster to throw basically our attic away.

Dane: 11:14

And not only were we saving money, cause we didn't do like the same money we spent, we would have spent to move it and store it again. We got rid of it and never had to carry that burden again. Remarkable to me and the relief I couldn't believe the emotional relief it created just by purging

Mitch: 11:35

and I think you're, you're getting to something, which I'd love to get to here, which is like, obviously, there's very apparent and embodied examples of traveling light, the weight that we're carrying. But there's also these other categories of traveling light that might be a little bit harder to, uh, first recognize, but they become very apparent once you become kind of aware of them, whether that's mental or emotional. And of course, these aren't just categories, but these are kind of The ripple effects of any of these categories. Say we are carrying extra physical weight.

Mitch: 12:06

Well, that is likely to ripple into mental, emotional, uh, other weights that we're carrying. Um, so I'd love to kind of categorize those and then, you know, talk a little bit about, um, how we kind of Yeah.

Dane: 12:20

Yeah. Well, it's funny. One of the things we do at MWOD at the end of every round is people, everyone who does M one loses, especially their first time, uh, if they were overweight, they lose a tremendous amount of weight, usually kind of in the 30 to 50 pound range over the course of 12 weeks.

Dane: 12:36

And one of the final exercises we do is we get them to take the weight that they lost, put it in a backpack and carry it. A particular workout and, and then at the end of it, they get to take it off. And it's profound for them. They're like, I carry this every single day and now I have this privilege because of the work I did for 12 weeks to take it off.

Dane: 12:53

And I never have to put it back on again if I don't want it. And that's, that's really cool. But it's one of the challenges that that reveals is we are carrying it and we don't know that we're carrying it. It's just, we're unaware. It's normal, that's just normal. And when it comes to the categories you're talking about, Mitch, these other significant, real burdens that we carry mentally, let's just call it in a broad category, mental, um, worries about other people, um, you know, my wife and I were, were brand new empty nesters.

Dane: 13:26

We used to care about diapers and, and, uh, you know, with the kids like not running to the street and, and now, now we're, we're concerned about very other, very different things that kids at college and beyond college and, and choices and friends. And it's terrifying. Uh, unless, unless somehow we can be conscious that, gosh, we're preoccupied with certain ideas, certain emotions, um, that we actually could rid ourselves of.

Dane: 14:00

Um, it's, it's funny folks who have faith traditions like Christianity, uh, where the idea of like giving your burdens over to a deity to carry on your behalf. That's a kind of sense of traveling light for, for people who are privileged enough to have access to that sort of thing. Um, uh, I think folks who, um, have relationships that they're preoccupied with, especially needy relationships where it feels like you need to save people in your life.

Dane: 14:28

And if you don't, their world's going to come to an end. And, and sometimes it really is that grave. Most of the time, though, it's not. It's just in your head. You think it's critical for you to concern yourself as if concerning yourself, getting all tied up in a knot about it is somehow helping someone in the physical universe.

Dane: 14:46

Probably not. Now, if you want to bring them a meal or if you want to, you know, send them a note to encourage them, that's great. But that's not carrying them in the same way. In fact, you ought to do those things so that you can release it so that you can travel light. But the first step is to even notice, to notice you're carrying the burden, to notice you're carrying the cognitive load.

Dane: 15:08

And, and usually that comes from slowing your own self down long enough to just pay attention to, it's kind of like what you were describing at the beginning of the show, where to stop and look in the backpack. Like, do I really need these five shirts and three pairs of shoes? Um, or if you've gone on several trips in a row and you go, I really thought I needed those things.

Dane: 15:28

And on three trips in a row, you never pulled them out, well, do an experiment, like get a bag half the size that necessitates you can't carry them anyways, and see how you go. And except for maybe about 20 seconds of like, Oh, I wish I had brought that thing I used to own or I own at home. You won't even notice.

Dane: 15:50

You won't even, except you'll notice is how rad it is to not have to carry all that crap around.

Mitch: 15:56

Totally. And going back to like the feeling first metaphor, like having a full tank means you don't have to carry the extra jerry cans, all the food that you'll ever need because you can make it to the next rest stop.

Mitch: 16:08

You know, it's like that's part of it too, is, you know, it's like going on a vacation and not bringing a jacket. Well, nine times out of 10, you're fine. And then the one time that you're not like, that's okay, I can go out and get it, or I can endure and learn something from this. And so there's all kinds of benefits, uh, that we're not considering because we're, you know, uh, being a little bit too concerned with these, these costs that we think exist out there.

Dane: 16:41

Yeah, these what ifs. It's funny.

Dane: 16:43

One of my favorite surprise exercises that we do at MWOD is ghostbusters. So, you know, about four or five weeks into the round, I think it is roughly, we do the surprise challenge. And I'm sharing this with people who are watching. I've never done MWOD necessarily, but, um, you'll forget all about this until it comes up.

Dane: 17:03

So don't worry. But the surprise is we say, look, first, go for a run, go for a run for one mile. And on that one mile, uh, carry nothing like have no input. So we actually help you not like we help you help you travel light right out of the gate. So it's just you and you're out there. And, and, um, while you're out there, your job is to tune into yourself to note, to notice what, who are the ghosts that you're carrying around?

Dane: 17:28

Who, who has real estate in your mind that you're given away for free that maybe you need to forgive someone or, or ask for forgiveness from someone, some unreconciled relationship. And, and that, or during that mile at the end of the mile, you've stopped and your job is to call that person. Leave a message if you need to, but do something active to travel lighter, to get it, to get the ghost out, to bust it out.

Dane: 17:54

And then after that first mile, you do it again for a second mile, second ghost, third mile, third ghost, fourth mile, fourth ghost. At the end of four miles, it could take you less than an hour or it could take you half your day. The stories we've heard. Of people who go, I haven't talked to my brother in seven years and, and it's, I'm traveling light.

Dane: 18:15

Like it, it has this weird connection between having a feeling of release is real. It's, it's feels like weight off your shoulders and yet we're carrying this all the time. And, and even the metaphor of running, like, you know, that I'm a, um, endurance athlete.

Dane: 18:34

I do long distance ultra runs on trail. And when you do that, folks who run, if you, even if you're a casual runner and you see people wear those funny little short packs that kind of go. Just below your chest and the kind of wrap around almost like a little vest. Uh, those are for ultra runners and it's not lost to me how small they are.

Dane: 18:53

Cause you know, you want the smallest container possible to carry everything you need, uh, and that ultra light approach, um, again, whether there's some physical or it's in the mental, it, it makes a massive, massive difference. But I I'm curious for you, Mitch, in those moments where you are tempted to overpack, right.

Dane: 19:14

To bring the bigger bag out. Um, If there were fears that were going on for you that, that kind of incentivize you to, to bring more than you need, what do you think you might be scared of? If there were fears.

Mitch: 19:32

Sure. Sure. If I'm thinking strictly of packing, it's being unprepared, not having what I need, not having what I need for others.

Dane: 19:43

Because you're responsible for so many people.

Mitch: 19:44

Sure. Sure.

Dane: 19:46

Well, where, where this is fun for me is, uh, can you go one more step and let's get out of the packing metaphor for a second? Sure. And why do you think you carry around the mental burden with people you have unresolved stuff with, um, as opposed to traveling light?

Mitch: 20:03

I think oftentimes, I think it's easier in the moment. I make the easy choice and get the hard life that follows of it's too uncomfortable to release this thing, to acknowledge this, to be vulnerable. Um, so I'd rather just kind of like carry it. I'll just carry it. Um, and the problem is like, maybe, I mean, even if it's just one thing that you're carrying that compounded, it's like, if you know, you just added one mile to your, or one pound to your pack on your ultra marathon, you know, you're running 50 miles, a hundred miles.

Mitch: 20:38

Like that is significant. I mean, any ultralight backpacker will tell you that that's why they're trying to squeeze out the, you know, a couple ounces out of this and a couple ounces out of that to make it the lightest as possible because it compounds. I've done that a lot of times. Uh, out of that fear, the fear of that vulnerability, or, you know, what if, what if I'm not enough or taking over committing to, because it's like, well, this is what if they perceive me differently if I don't do this thing, um, or, or what does it say about me?

Mitch: 21:10

Uh, how will this shift how I show up in the world if I'm not doing all these things? So, yeah, there's all kinds of, of things that are. Upstream of those small little choices of, uh, traveling a little bit less light than I need to be.

Dane: 21:28

I found too, for myself, that there's moments where I'm, I, I might say like, well, I don't know how to, I don't know how to resolve it.

Dane: 21:35

I don't know how to get that out of my head. They're not going to be open to that conversation or, um, If it's kind of relational or, uh, I don't know what to pick first. Like there's a sense of confusion. And one of the things I've noticed for myself is confusion is a strategy, an unconscious strategy to not have to deal.

Dane: 21:55

And, um, I treat it, I treat it like that. In fact, I know this because I'm so confused all the time. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And the irony is once you decide to do, you figure it out. Like, here's the thing. If you've unresolved. Stuff with somebody, dial the number and you'll figure it out before they pick up.

Dane: 22:17

You'll figure it out. Once the conversation begins, the hardest part, like every good salesman knows is the 800 pound phone that you got to pick up in the first place. It feels like a lot to get started, but it's amazing how quickly we can purge. Um, I had this experience back in that moving experience that we mentioned earlier, and I've shared this story in different spots, uh, hopefully not recently here, but we were moving and we found, um, I think the number was 300 pounds worth of old tax documents, just paper, 300 pounds of paper.

Dane: 22:51

And we paid 96 to have it shredded. So I lugged it downstairs, put it in the car, took it to a professional shredder, shredded it. I, I couldn't believe it. And for years I was like, no, no, no. What if they, what if I get audited? What, you know, what if I, I need that stuff, I need this, and this is like, wasn't seven years of tax records, this was like 20 years of track tax records, like I, I had given myself this weird narrative as an excuse as to not actually do the thing that was right in front of me that instantly created benefits.

Dane: 23:26

It's one of those one things where the moment you do it, you benefit, but you don't experience the benefit until you've done it. And that's the rub. It's like, there's a sense of like, there's a lead action to get a lag benefit. And whenever that's in place and you're aware of it, You're crazy to knock it after the lead metric right away, even though you won't feel it when you go upstairs into the attic and grab the paper, it's guaranteed that moments from then, you will have the lag experience of utter, utter, like joy, like bliss.

Dane: 24:00

Uh, it's so guaranteed. And even as I say this, I know there are listeners who are going, oh, I should clean up my attic. I have a junk drawer or, uh, I have a, you know, garage. And what I'm not asking you to. To do is think about it right now more. What I'm asking you to do is put your earphones on, keep listening and walk out to your garage and pick up one thing, like one thing, the lead effort to pick up the one thing and go, I'm not going until this finds its proper place, which is probably the trash.

Dane: 24:31

Where you pull a Marie Kondo and you say thank you and you put it in the trash. Uh, like you're, you are right on the cusp. We're all right on the cusp of creating this incredible blissful experience simply by getting rid. We're so, we're so used to being consumers. We're consumed and we think it's normal.

Dane: 24:51

And freedom is to release to say thanks and let it go.

Mitch: 24:58

Yeah. I think this, this whole thing about lead and lag metrics is, is important. And it goes back to one thing that you said is like one of those lead strategies or one of the things to focus on is like, what's the container that you're bringing along? Bring a smaller backpack, you know, that will automatically limit your optionality, limit your choices, which will actually buy you more freedom.

Mitch: 25:19

It's such a backwards thing in our culture, yet it's so liberating. Um, if we've ever like, you know, if someone's ever gone through the unfortunate experience of, you know, losing their home to a fire or, you know, something of that kind of category of destruction. I just talked to a friend that, that this, Happened to her lightning struck outside of her house and caught her a whole apartment on fire And while she's grieving that while she feels unsettled There's also she also articulated this this little bit of like freedom like not realizing Wow Not only did I not need all that stuff But all of my clients that I were supporting all of these social media posts that I was posting Thinking that this was so essential Well, I couldn't do that by necessity because I didn't have internet.

Mitch: 26:09

I didn't have a home. I was sorting all this out. And actually my business went up in that month. So I think it's really important too, to think about like, like you said, that experiment, like, what if you just brought a smaller pack? What if you just committed to fewer things? What if you quit this thing and tried it on for size and saw what that limited optionality actually gave you, which is kind of a theme of a lot of what we do at MWOD, you know, limiting that optionality.

Mitch: 26:36

And that backwards freedom that that gives you.

Dane: 26:38

There's a great little documentary that came out in the early 2000s called, uh, the story of stuff by Annie Leonard and she, she talks about like it's really framed around consumerism and, and how we're getting suckered into consumerism. To buying and getting more stuff and, uh, the perception that if we don't get the latest and newest, uh, but it understates and her context, like the environmental impact of just living in a consumption world and, um, kind of goes so far as to say, like, well, what are your consumption habits and how do you, how can you advocate for, for more, uh, not more stuff, but more life.

Dane: 27:19

And I, when I'm struck by, even as I reflect back on that old thing that. I remember when I first saw those, it kind of arrested me for a minute. Um, what's exciting, I think, is to realize that we can do something about that, like, right now. Um, little, little habits, like, one habit I have is I love to Take stuff.

Dane: 27:44

I love, I love, I love Amazon. I love like the phenomenon of living like no King ever lived before the era that we're in where I could at a beck and call, have something arrive at my door, anything at my door and that magic that is this miracle called distribution and, and all that Amazon's created. And yet it's so easy.

Dane: 28:08

And I want so I'm I'm never without want of what about this or what about that and I must have it and to get in the habit of like a different habit, which is, um, I'm so drunk in my ability to get what I want. What if I actually. Put it in my wish list as opposed to putting it in my shopping cart, uh, just for a night.

Dane: 28:28

And I can't tell you how much money I've saved just by waking up the next day and going that was a bad idea. I didn't need that. I thought I needed it. I was convinced I needed it, but I was deceived and the impact of stuff, that whole notion of like what we own owns you, uh, or even attaching to things is such a Insidious contributor to real burden that people carry.

Dane: 28:58

Uh, it's so it's, it's as real as this table I'm touching. And, and yet we don't treat it like that. We treat it like, Oh, it's fine. Options are good. I want more options and options are often a curse. Um, cause. I talked to my kids, they're trying to figure out adulting, and they have so many options, they're paralyzed, they just feel stuck, totally stuck, and if they, if they, or you, or I, would just narrow the, like, constrain the focus, all of a sudden, there's a liberation that people experience, a sense of like, okay, I'm going to get a, I'm going to get a job in, in a geographical region, or in a particular industry, it's not every job, it's, In this particular lane, and I know it's going to be hard in the front end, but I'm going to put myself in a position of possibility, um, by, by committing to someone, even, even the, I would argue like the relational burdens that people feel like I, if I, if I pick one person to date or to marry, that means I'm saying no to millions more, uh, and, and it's just in your head.

Dane: 30:12

Because all the while you're missing out on the benefits that come from the one, choosing the one, um, and, and working through those things. And I don't mean to be flippant about making those kinds of choices, but there is something profound that you can only get once you've made the decision to narrow rather than broaden.

Mitch: 30:30

Yep. I fully agree. And I've been there so many times. One of my favorite musicians, uh, exercises, this kind of creative constraints in his music, his name's Ryan O'Neal. And he goes under the moniker Sleeping at Last. And he does this with his music. He's like, he has, he experienced that kind of paralysis and instead of, you know, okay, I just need more plugins and more instruments and more collaborators.

Mitch: 30:54

He, he instead kind of pared down and said, you know what? I'm going to write a song with these constraints. I'm going to... It has to be in this key with these instruments. Uh, and I need to incorporate for the lyrics, my favorite films of this year and the output of those super restrictive constraints are, are some of the most beautiful songs and creativity, um, that, that I've, you know, experienced.

Mitch: 31:18

And it's just crazy what that reduction in optionality does. Um, so what are some things that we can kind of do like recapping? Obviously we have like the reflection component. We have, uh, the, the kind of just take the first step, focus on that, that lead metric. Uh, what, what's a kind of recap and some anchor actions for, for our listeners, um, today.

Dane: 31:41

Yeah. I, I, I think if you don't, if you don't notice, it's very difficult. So first of all, if, if you've listened this far into the podcast and you're like, yeah, of course. Um, But even if you've been practicing this and something, some new things don't come to mind, I'd encourage you to go back and hit play again, because there's something that's missing that you, could it be that there's still more to appreciate about what this idea is?

Dane: 32:06

And I'm not asking you to, to, to go back and listen for our sake. It's more that if on the heels of this, you don't find yourself kind of looking around whatever room you're in and going is my desk. Too cluttered? Uh, is, uh, is my mind too cluttered? Are my emotions too cluttered? Am I worried?

Dane: 32:26

Uh, kind of freaked out. The line we have in our family all the time is, uh, you know, why pray when you can worry? Uh, cause we all laugh at like how silly worrying is, right? How futile it is. Well, the way to get rid of worries is to pray, right? It's to give it away. To not have to carry the burden, um, and that as a first step is just critical that we just notice that we have more than, than, than we need.

Dane: 32:56

And again, again, I, I, I've said this a couple of times, but I really want to emphasize it. What I'm not saying is that you live in some austere context where you don't have what you need. What we're saying is have everything you need, but no more be ruthlessly minimalistic, just what you need because the rest is, is just waste.

Dane: 33:14

Um, And it literally could be as little as like you put too much toothpaste on your toothbrush. Like you don't need that much. Just put a little, you know, or it could be you leave the fridge open or you leave the water running or, you know, you don't, it's just, you don't need it. Just get what you need and no more.

Dane: 33:34

Um, and even to pause and consider, well, what do I need? If I was going to have a fantastic day today, what's the least I could need to get that day to be so, but it does require some noticing, some thoughtfulness, some, some care. But more than all of that, it requires action. It just requires, like, opening your junk drawer and picking one thing up at a time and going, I'm not going to stop until this finds its proper place, until it goes in the spot that it needs to go.

Dane: 34:06

And in some cases, it's the trash. In other cases, it's, um, it's, uh, goodwill. Uh, in other cases, it's, you know, It's maybe a different drawer a drawer that would be more appropriate that you can access it when you need it But not not perpetually all day long. I think the metaphor of a junk drawer is Emblematic of everything we're talking about like why do you have a junk drawer?

Dane: 34:31

Well, you have a junk drawer because you haven't made the decision of where things ought to go. You've you've decided I'm just gonna Dedicate that backpack to carrying, to just carrying. But imagine opening your junk drawer and having empty space space is incredible. It's full of possibility, but when we fill it with stuff, emotional, physical, or otherwise, it's a, it's just junk.

Dane: 34:59

It's just, it's a junk drawer. We don't want junk. You want the stuff that gives you life and to get access to that requires this real discipline. This discipline that happens on the daily Even within a day of staying awake to, well, what do I actually need? What do I want? What do I need to get what I want?

Dane: 35:18

And making sure that's all you have. Cause everything else is just a distraction. It's beyond the minimal viable dose of what you need. And I think when you can begin to have that as a default starting point to, to, after you've fueled first travel light, you'll, to your point earlier, you're going to need less fuel to get further along and the pro the experience itself.

Dane: 35:40

It's just. So much more enjoyable, even if it's, um, a difficult part of the experience, it's going to be a lot less burdensome if you're carrying less weight.

Mitch: 35:51

And I'd be kind of remiss to, to kind of omit, uh, the, the importance of like, not going it alone too. We've got a community of a lot of people that are traveling light.

Mitch: 36:03

If you've ever been on a backpacking trip. It helps to go with others and not just for safety reasons, but just the morale and just to be on a journey with others, uh, I think is so, so valuable.

Dane: 36:14

Or to even help you notice that you're carrying more than you need.

Mitch: 36:16

A hundred percent.

Dane: 36:18

Yeah.

Dane: 36:18

Like, are you sure you need that cast iron?

Dane: 36:20

Sink, uh, on this backpack, Mitch. I don't know. I know something could come up, but I don't know, you know, maybe just fine without it.

Mitch: 36:28

Yeah. There's no bears on this trail. Why are you bringing everything in a bear can? Yeah. Yeah.

Dane: 36:34

And we're going to be home by dinner. Like what are you, what, what, you know, but just in case I get that.

Dane: 36:40

Okay.

Mitch: 36:40

Yes. Yes. Uh, I think, you know, in the spirit of traveling light and, uh, you know, essentialism as you know, Greg McKeown, uh, kind of coined that phrase or at least popularized it. You know, I, I think we've said what we, we need to say in this episode and I'd love for people to, to take action. Um, and one of the ways that you can take action is if this is striking a chord, obviously we've shared a number of things that you can do right now to kind of lighten your load. Um, and one of the, one of the things that you can do too is, you know, check out and one. io, like go there. We've got a community of folks that, that are pursuing the same thing that are traveling light that are rooting themselves and anchoring themselves in a lot of these ideas that we're exploring in this.

Mitch: 37:24

But the biggest part is that it's embodied. We're not just putting ourselves on the hook. We're not just committing to something we're actually following through and, uh, are holding account for those things. So

Dane: 37:35

following through, especially when you don't want to, especially when you're like, yeah, I love the idea of an empty attic, but we're actually going to stand with you while you go empty your attic.

Dane: 37:44

And that's, that's, I think the part that's to your point earlier about community, it becomes so magical, like both the weight of. The, like the burden of purging doesn't feel as awful when, you know, others are doing the same. And, and there's also a sense of like, at least for me, the people that I do hard things right alongside, they become my favorite people in the world.

Dane: 38:12

Like there's a bonding impact that happens when you do hard things together. And. You know, if not, MWOD, where are you doing that in your life? You got to find someplace to do that in your life, because it's, this is not meant to be a solo Lone Ranger experience life. We're meant to do this together, but you want to do it together with like minded folks who want the same kinds of things.

Dane: 38:34

So if there's things that are you're drawn to today around carrying less burden, I know there's people listening to this, just Just go to my. io forward slash apply and apply, jump in. Even if you just fill the answers for yourself, that'll help actually help you identify some of the extra burden that you're carrying and give you a clearer path to get after it.

Dane: 38:56

But what we want for you is to actually, and for us, cause we would be better if you were part of this, uh, would be for you to join in what we're doing together and, uh, and consider becoming a man or woman of discomfort

Mitch: 39:07

on that note, wrap it there. Thanks, Dane.

Dane: 39:10

Thanks, Mitch.

Dane: 39:11

Men & Women Of Discomfort is our membership community and we are open to everyone but keep in mind our tagline is it's probably not for you if we're wrong about that or if you want to find out for yourself you can find us at mwod.io. The information and material that we're sharing both of this podcast or anything connected to men or women of discomfort or flying s incorporated it's all for general information purposes only. You should not rely on this material or information on this podcast as a basis for making any kind of decision.

Dane: 39:36

We do our best to keep everything up to date and correct, and we do a lot of due diligence, but the responsibility is on you to make sure that you're in sync with your own medical professionals that you wouldn't see what we're offering here as somehow a warranty or representation in any kind expressed or implied about this being complete, accurate, reliable, suitable, or comprehensive in any kind of way.

Dane: 39:50

It's critical you own your agency, which is at the heart of everything we do at Men & Women Of Discomfort, we invite you to take the input that we're offering and consider it for yourself. And if it's helpful, please do take advantage of it. But if you do, it's you who is taking the opportunity and we're assuming that you've done your due diligence with it.

Dane: 40:02

Thanks.