The Oscars were last night and WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT! Some of the wins, the performances, and all of the moments in between!

Our guests tonight are Cocoa Rae David, Brianna Milon, and Sandra and Ike Ntube of Two Beers Cinema Club.

Cocoa Rae David, a New York-based visual artist, curator, photographer, filmmaker, and business owner of By Cocoa Rae LLC. You can visit her website here and follow her on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/bycocoarae. She also has a studio, art gallery, and event space called Da Purp which you can follow here: https://www.instagram.com/da_purp.

Brianna Milon is a published author, communications professional and model. You can follow her on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/suunnybri.

Sandra and Ike Ntube make up the Two Beer Cinema Club, a passion project where they celebrate, review, and recommend movies and beer. They love to explore and chat about lesser seen films- from independent to international, to forgotten gems and new releases. You can follow them on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/twobeercinemaclub.

As promised in our episode, we’ve provided videos to critiques and perspectives by Black Women about One Battle After Another:

@Jouelzy’s “One Battle After Another, A White Man’s Wet Dream”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=614S7VuCzb8

Shannan E. Johnson’s “Fetishization, Race & Responsibility in Storytelling | ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER (Film Analysis)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFvXpim_Ozo

Cannonball with Wesley Morris featuring Daphne A Brooks – “We Need to Talk About How ‘One Battle After Another’ Depicts Black Women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buPYKnIk8RU

Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, and if you enjoyed today’s episode, please give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of the episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, & Threads.

Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. Be on the lookout for not one but 2 more episodes this week honoring Black Women Directors. Throughout this month, we’re handing our flowers to filmmakers that we should be talking about—some you may have heard of and some you may not have heard of. Either way, you won’t know until the show premieres so make sure you subscribe!

Chapters:

00:08 - Intro

02:29 – Initial Oscars Reactions

08:57 – Unequitable Speech Times & The Underlying Disrespect for Non-White Film Workers

11:16 – Giving Our Flowers to Delroy Lindo

13:48 – ALL of the shade to Sean Penn

14:30 – Sinners LIVE Performance

20:58 – More Shade for Timothee Chalamet

23:05 – Variety, THE NORTH REMEMBERS

24:42 – Oscar Wins

30:12 - The Influence of Ryan Coogler

35:34 – Avatar Winning Best Visual Effects

42:09 – Political Speeches

47:55 – Final Thoughts

Mentioned in this episode:

Connections with Evan Dawson

Connections with Evan Dawson - Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!

Connections

Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement

Joe Bean Roasters

Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com

So y', all, the Oscars were last night and we absolutely need to talk about it. I'm your host, Jackie McGriff and this is your first time listening and or watching.

Welcome to Representation in Cinema where we talk about films that center Black brown Indigenous peoples as well as on the film industry itself.

I'm not only your host, but also the founder, director and co producer of our Voices Project, a production company that's committed to sharing the stories and lived experiences of Black Brown Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.

We're community engaged filmmakers who believe that you in order to tell the stories of Black brown Indigenous peoples, you also have to be in community and in solidarity with them. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and the little bell to get notified about new episodes and clips.

If you're listening on your preferred podcast platform, hit that follow button.

If you enjoyed today's episode, Please rate us 5 stars and also leave a comment to share your thoughts about what you thought about tonight's episode. Before we get into everything about the ceremony, let's quickly introduce our guests.

So in studio we have Coco Ray David, a New York based visual artist, curator, photographer, filmmaker and business owner of by CocoRay LLC who creates captivating portraits and art of unique and diverse people and captures their true essence. Welcome back to the podcast, Coco.

Thank you.

You are so welcome.

Next up we have Brianna Milan, a published author, communications professional and model who blends creativity and connection in everything that she does. Welcome back, Bri.

Yes, happy to be here.

Both were previously on our podcast talking about Black. That was our Black AF episode for Sinners, which of course we were rooting for. But of course we y' all listen to the podcast so y' all know that.

Anywho, last but certainly not least, joining us virtually from Durham, North Carolina representing two Beer Cinema Club, the group that drinks a lot of movies and watches a lot of beer. Sandra and Ike and Tube. Two Beer Cinema Club is a passion project where they celebrate, review and recommend movies and beer.

They love to explore and chat about lesser seen films from independent to international to to forgotten gems and new releases. Thank you both for joining us on the podcast.

Happy to be here.

Yeah.

Excited.

Awesome. Okay, so let's dive right in. All right. I would love to know first and foremost your initial Oscar reactions.

I'm talking about ceremony overall, maybe what you loved about maybe performances or any speeches that you know that really could grabbed your attention to all of the things in between, especially given our winners. I would like to start with Bri, what was your initial reaction?

So I am someone who was only here for sinners and I have not tuned into award ceremonies like that. What is it? The Grammys ain't even get me either. Like I think you get. It's just, I don't think they.

These award shows always give us what we really deserve by tuning in for two and a half hours. You know what I can do with two and a half hours but watch a movie.

So my initial reactions is I think they set us up with 16 win or 16 nominations and only a quarter of the wins is just really playing in our faces.

Playing in our faces.

And that's my only sentiment. That is the only sentiment of the night. I'm happy. Michael Bay one. I've. I. Yes, the one.

The awards that were won were absolutely deserved and they absolutely deserved more.

Yeah. So how about you, Coco?

I agree with Bri on just a sentiment of sinners. I've always been a fan of Michael B. Jordan since he's not that much older than me, to be honest.

And I feel like watching him progress with his career in acting, it's just been worth it. Like I've realized. I've watched a lot of his films like Red Tails. I forgot that was one of the. I went to go see by myself and just enjoying that.

And then of course Chronicles. No one talks about the movie Chronicles.

Nobody talks about it.

But just seeing his progression with him and Brian Coogler, just like a pair. Like they are an amazing duo.

And I saw a post on like a comment on TikTok that was like Michael B. Jordan's win was just an example of us working people twice as hard. Yes.

Playing two characters very seriously. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Sandra, how about you?

Yeah, so I'll say that as kind of like a general awards ceremony like vibe. I always just love seeing brown and black people represented on stage, in the crowd, in interviews. Like, that's all well and good.

However, I share the sentiment. I was deeply disappointed and completely unsurprised.

I was like I was hedging my bets going into this and I was just kind of like met with what I thought was going to happen. And I wish I'd been more surprised

in a good way.

And that wasn't right.

And Ike.

Yeah. Similar sentiments to everybody else. You know, have to shout out the bros. Michael B. And Ryan also got a shout out.

One of our biggest allies and Ludwig, Ludwig Goranson. I feel like he's always with the homies. He's always invited to the cookout. All the way from Sweden.

And then you have Autumn Derald Arkapa, who first female cinematographer. We cannot overlook that at all. But I think that we all knew from the beginning of the show, whenever wound me lost, we were in for a long night.

That's at the time, that's at the tone.

We definitely knew also, you know, even in another instance where they could have given us a little something, they went with sentimental value over a secret agent, which has a lot of representation or even it was just an accident. And so, yeah, once again, you know, not surprised, but still disappointed.

That's what I always say. I. And I wish it wasn't that. It was just like talking to Bree before we started recording.

But my thing is always, always disappointed, never surprised. And I feel like that works in a lot of these spaces. It works in real life, which is unfortun fortunate, but that was for sure, at least.

And also too for me watching with a big crowd. So I was at an art house, our local art house theater, the little theater. Shout out to y' all for a lovely Oscar party.

But I'm sitting there and it's a pretty mixed crowd, but of course, you could tell a lot of people in the room were also there for Sinners, which was. Which was great. There were also. There was quite a few people there that were also, though, cheering for one battle after another.

No shade to y', all, but actually all the shade. Anyway, we'll get into a little bit later.

But yeah, my overall thing was like that, that with that first thing now, I didn't think that me would get it. I was. Was absolutely rooting for her. And I thought it was. Would go to Tiana. Right? So.

Because I'm thinking, you know, from past award ceremonies, right, thus far, she had been the favorite. And so I'm thinking, okay, it's going to go along those same lines. Well, turns out that not only does wound me not win, Tiana doesn't win.

We get Amy Madigan for weapons, which I don't know what your. What, what? Or how y' all felt, especially Sandra and Ike, but, like, when you were watching what. What was the emotion that came over you? Because I.

Because I was definitely sitting there confused. I don't know what y' all think about that.

Yeah, I. I feel like there were definitely some people saying that it might be her. You know, some people in like, the sphere were kind of saying, oh, this might be her, because of, like, kind of the career achievement thing.

She's been acting for 40 years or whatever it is. And so I Kind of chalk it up as that of them kind of being like, well, let's.

Let's give it to Amy because she'll come up on stage and be, like, cute about it and palatable and, like, that's how we'll lead into the night. But it definitely felt like, you know, that election night when, like, the first swing state goes the wrong way and you're like, yo.

More of the time.

Yeah. Honestly, the optics are always just, like, bad vibes whenever this happens. And I'm just gonna go ahead and say it.

Like, do I love, like, Amy Madigan's, like, career? Like, cool. Yeah, absolutely. But also, that woman was given ages to talk on stage. Like, so much time, and they, like, cut off other people.

And I was like, well, okay, sure, you'll let Amy talk forever, but everyone else doesn't get a shot. Whatever. That's. That's your business.

And it was the people with the furthest commute that got to talk the least coming from Korea. People coming from other countries were like, yes, we did it. And they're like, all right, we're cutting you off.

Yeah. And like. And normally, like, if they're. If they're still standing there, then they'll. They'll. They'll usually the.

You know, that the music will kind of, like, die out and they'll be allowed the chance to speak. No, they weren't allowed that. That opportunity. Right. As you said, like, got it.

And then also, too, like, I think after that happens, Adrien Brody gets on. On stage and makes, like, this. Does this whole bit, you know, where he's, you know. Cause they were criticizing, like, him taking a long time.

And so he does this bit where he's able to stay up there for, like, you know, he takes his time, you know, in whatever it is that he has to do when he's up there to present. So I'm just going. So this is just. Just bad form all around.

Like, y' all are not even allowing them the space and the time to do that when so many other people were given that opportunity. And again, there's just, like, there's always this as. As. As much as, you know. Well, you know what?

I don't even think we can get away from the fact that Hollywood is heavily. Right. Like, racist. Right? They. They. They champion these, like, you know, we're all about diversity, equity, inclusion, and all of these.

But of course, you know, seeing as how we're in this, there's been, you know, whole companies that have kind of been complying early. Right? And Sort of dialing back from the already limited DEI they were doing in the first place.

But then it's like you're giving people, like, just in that. In that. In that act where you're allowing folks to really take their time. But then when it comes to, you know, some of the.

Like, some of the other categories, Categories, especially where you're seeing a lot more diversity, they're not offered that. That chance. I also want to go back to something you had said to Ike about. About this. This idea of seniority, right?

When someone's been in their career for so long, right? And so they usually with, I guess, to account for, like, for all of the wins that they didn't get over the years. Right. To offer them that same.

That same opportunity. Right. To get their award. So you're seeing that with Amy. What I was surprised to not see it with was with Delroy Lindo now. Go, Bri. Go, go.

I know you got something to say.

Listen, I ride for Delroy at dawn, okay? Absolutely. This was his moment, and I think they should have given him the same grace they gave Amy. Yes.

And he has been with us in black America for so long. One of our most treasured, like, actors, Crooklyn and.

Come on.

For so long, he's been extremely instrumental in the things that we watched growing up and that shaped black media.

And this was his moment because, like, Wumi, I, sadly, I also thought, I don't think she's going to get it, but she also is young in her career, also has so much more time to get that recognition again, and I have no doubt that she will.

Delroy is a senior in his career and has been doing this for so long, and who's to say he's going to be in another movie that reached this kind of stardom? So it's not that he's not extremely talented, but Sinners was once. Once in a lifetime.

Once in a lifetime. And then, like. And that's the thing. It's like, we. We would have loved to. To have him to. To. To see him get it regardless.

But not only are we talking about, like, someone who's been in this now for a long time, but we're also talking about someone who is not only just an incredible actor, but, like, the role. That role alone. That role alone. I'm just going. There's no way that y' all either. We're definitely not watching the same film. Right.

And I'm wondering, like, who it is, right, that's putting in these votes for there to be such a disconnect There has to have been. Because you would have to understand the history. You would have to understand our connection to our ancestors.

You would have had to understand there's so much depth within the improvisation.

Alone in the car, like, in him really following the beat of that character in that scene and allowing it to just happen like that. I'm sorry. That intuition. How do you not reward that? Like, how do we not give him his flowers at this point?

Yeah. That movie does not happen without him. Like, without Delroy. That movie does not. Is not near successful.

If he's not second on the call sheet, he's probably third, you know, and, like, that is. He brings it all together.

And then to also give it to Sean Penn.

You know what? At least he didn't bother us with any kind of airtime. At least I'll give him. I mean, it's disrespectful, don't get me wrong.

But also, at least I didn't have to hear his voice.

Yeah. I don't know what he would have said, and I didn't want to hear it.

No, no. And also, though, shout out to Kieran Culkin.

Who.

And it was like, he. Either because he's not there, either just because he can't or because he doesn't want to be. And I was like, oh, you are Romulus from Succession.

For real.

Like, he.

He is his character from Succession. And I'm like, I appreciate you, Karen. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so to. To move into. Let's talk. That surreal sequence. Performance. Oh, my God.

Okay, so, Coco, I want to hear.

I want to hear from you about that, about the performance, about seeing again this scene that we've been talking about for the longest time and we'll continue to talk about, because, again, Sinners is very much a generational film. Okay. We will be talking about Sinners for a while. You know, we won't be talking about one battle after another. I'm sorry. Throughout this episode.

So if you don't like that, eat it anyway. All right, so I love it. What did you think about the performance? Sorry, are you outside of your mind? Exactly.

It was just the ego part that just took me off.

It was, to be honest, as somebody who's always been just an admirer of music and growing up on music and having a sibling who's in music, it is always surreal to just see how people can transpire like a scene from a movie into real life. And Miles, I already knew it.

This child has a voice that's just beyond his years, ancestral and just being able to see him perform one in the film and also just how he even got that role and debuting the way he did is just so. Just hearing the stories and everything, I'm just like, this child is blessed beyond, like his years.

And just being able to have a voice like that is so different. And also seeing Misty Copeland and thinking about her being. I always think about this photo of her being in Rochester.

And I always see this photo of her with these young black girls just around her. And I'm just like, how much ballet, how much music performance has always been a part of this history.

Not only just photography, but like in media, but just everything when it comes to art and expression. And seeing that performance was amazing. And yeah, yeah.

For anyone who says, by the way, that sinners would never work for Broadway.

Well, listen, I'm telling you, that was. I was waiting

to.

Haven't been talked to because I think that's what that. That showed us completely is that it could work in a Broadway show and it would kill it.

Yes.

And I would be there.

We will all be there.

I would be the same way. I'm there for Megan Thee stallion right now. I would be there for. I already bought my ticket.

Yeah, exactly.

Please give my Broadway girly heart some life. Like, that's all I want.

Yeah, I know. I really love that. I loved also too, because I. I'm a filmmaker.

This is.

I can't help it. But the camera work too, like, of that. You're just kind of. Again, this is all very much like the film. Very much one shot. So that's how it's filmed.

Like, you know, live and everything. And so you're seeing all the characters right from the film.

Seamless.

And it's seamless and it's beautiful. You know, you're hearing Miles. You're. You're watching Misty. You're also watching all the different dancers, right?

And the Alabama Shakes woman. Let's not forget her name right now. But. Oh, my God, when I saw her come out, I felt chill. I can't remember her name, but I do love her.

I'm sorry, Eric, what you were saying?

No, I was just saying her name is Brittany Howard. And yeah, I saw her and I was sent. Also Mississippi legend on that blues guitar.

That's right.

Kingfish as well.

We saw him in concert last year. He Shreds in real life. I'm sure it was a spiritual experience for everyone in that crowd.

Oh, wow.

Oh, beautiful, Beautiful. Also, I, I loved this. And I don't know if everyone caught it.

There were some people that I saw that, you know, were commenting because, of course, I was on social media afterwards or during. During and afterwards, of course.

But, like, there was this, There was this small part where Jack o' Connell comes up to the stage and tries to get on stage, and they're telling him, nope. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh. Just like another, like these little, like, things, you know, from the film. I just, I love that touch as well.

This man also came to the Oscars with the, the, the things. Yeah. I was like, okay. There were all, by the way, there were all sorts of.

This is why I always advocate for going on social media afterwards, because the commentary on that alone from all the women was going insane.

Oh, my God.

Jack was my favorite. So that's why I'm like, yeah, look, this, this movie has done justice for this guy. And I'm feel riding with him since Skins. Like, yes.

I'm telling you, Skins needs to be, like, studied for their method acting. Agree actors, because Daniel Kalua, Dev Patel, Nicholas, and now Jack o'. Connell.

Yeah.

Study their method actings. And these people are acting since they were, like, young. So.

Yes. Oh, yeah, no, that was, that was incredible. I, I, I loved it.

It gave me that, that same feeling of, like, watching for the first time, like, in a theater. Right. The first among many, of course. But, like, again, it just gave me that feeling. It was different.

Like, it was different, but it still felt the way it did. Like, when I was watching it for the first time on screen, it was just, it was so good.

And then what now, what I didn't know, and I've seen other comments about this, what I didn't know was that. So the ballet, the ballet dancer that appears during that scene in the film is a reference to Missy. Oh, my gosh. I can't even talk.

Yeah, so I guess it was her. It was a reference to her first performance as Firebird. So that's the, That's a reference.

So the fact that she is coming out and doing that, but also after hip surgery.

Double hip surgery.

Double hip surgery.

Yeah.

Is nuts to me.

Just also right in front of Timothee Chalamet.

Right in front of me. Or according to. Or according to Doja Cat. Timoth Chalamet. I know, I know.

That's the correct pronunciation.

Yes.

As much as she's problematic, I did, at least for a brief moment, appreciate the shade that she was throwing. But also, the entire Internet has been throwing shade towards this man.

Deserved.

Deserved.

And it was right. It was rightfully so. You can't just say things out like that. As is. As if it has an influence. Music and art, but also him. Yes.

He grew up with several ballerinas in

his family, including his mother.

So how do you completely disregard the art form your family made millions off of? Like, I don't. Okay.

And on top of all of that, he's like, I don't want to do something that's like saving something that's doing something that's not popular. The man just made a movie about ping pong. Like, what are we talking about?

Like, what are we talking about?

Like, shout out to ping pong. I'm not saying. I'm not saying ping pong is bad, but, like, nobody's into ping pong like that right now.

And he's over here like, well, nobody wants to sacrifice. Save ping pong.

Oh, my God. Yeah, that was. And also. Also speaking of that very briefly, Marty supreme won nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Paid him.

It was written in the cards. I mean, he made a movie about it. He's a loser.

They lose. Oh.

On screen and off. On screen and off.

Oh.

Oh.

Oh, my God. Oh, man. That's hilarious. I can't wait to read the comments when I post that. That's to be fantastic. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

Because that's the thing is, like, I just felt like, especially the way in which, like, news outlets, you know, were treating this film. The north remembers Variety. The north remembers, like.

Cause we are not letting Variety live that down as far as, like, the way in which they market exactly the way that they marketed this film. Right. As if it wasn't going to do or setting it up to be like, oh, you know, Sinners is not gonna do well when it did much better than.

And wait for it. One battle after another. Anyway, again, I told you this is not a safe space for one battle after another fan. Sorry if you are. I have so much that.

You know what?

In fact, I'm going to include some links in the show notes for y', all just to point to, you know, some opinions from other black women about that film.

Anywho.

But what I.

What I also want to get into, of course, especially with, you know, the things that we did that we did see, I want to, you know, instead of, like, throwing shade, which I mean, I will continue to do, because that's just me. But some of the things that we also did see, you know, on top of the performance and everything.

Autumn Gerald arcpaw getting the win for best cinematography, I thought was incredible. First Female, which I have some, like, I have some mixed feelings about. I don't know, does anyone want to. To talk.

Talk about that or, like, you know, what your thoughts and feelings were, you know, after seeing that win?

Well, yeah, as the man here. Y' all go ahead.

Oh, my gosh.

I think it was just very inspiring to see her get the dues. I'm obviously upset that it took this long for her and others to either get overlooked and just for her to get recognized at this point in time.

But also at the same time, the decision making that came into the point for her to get this, you know, thinking about the film centers and just one. The continuous shot and how to utilize the continuous shot, the colors.

I can talk about even just the point of using film and just learning about just standards and, like, ratios and stuff like that. Like, there's a lot of methodical thinking when it comes to, like, the way a film should look from just it being from wide to full screen.

And for her to just work alongside with Coogler and talk and him creating the space. Because I've always admired how much he's always included even his wife Zinzi in a part of his process.

Like the voice of women being constantly utilized in this filmmaking is so important.

And even for him, yes, to be a director and a male director, to just, you know, make these decisions, just to create the space for other people to thrive in that with him, you know.

Yeah.

And, you know, I'm learning as I'm going with this whole thing, because I've been in and out of.

I was in and out the award ceremony, but just seeing the little clips, I think it's so interesting to see when you get that little segment of time and hearing somebody's speech and who was a part of the process and just even seeing how far you can go as an artist or even just anybody around you, because you can literally do anything. But it was, for me, inspiring. So.

Yeah. How about you, Bri?

Yeah, I would have to absolutely agree. I mean, during Women's History Month, it is a historical win and her speech was really moving. I think.

One, I want to note how everyone talks about Ryan Coogler. How every single person that has come in contact with that man has looked at him with so much love and adoration.

And you could just tell it's extremely earned.

And I always see things that's like, you know, he loves the black woman in his life and the women in his life by how he treats everyone else around him. So I really appreciated that. And then she uplifted women as a whole because it really was something. That scene I'll never get over.

The house party scene. The party scene, you know, like.

And seamlessly bringing so many different generations of our culture together and making us see, even during when Oscars. What we saw at the Oscars was an inspiration from that movie.

And I will say, even that performance was one of the best performances I've ever seen on a stage. And I am a Broadway. That's what I'm here for. I want to see the big productions. So for her to be honored, it was definitely.

If they had to choose which ones they gave us, I'm really happy they chose to give her that win last night.

Yeah. Also we had the moment where when she had. When she got the win, it was announced, and.

And as she's going upstage and starts to make this speech, you know, she calls out for, you know, her kid, and there's Ryan Coogler bringing him down.

Yeah. Like, it was sprinting.

Yes. Like, it was so. It was so sweet. And it just. Again, we were talking about, you know, how people talk about Ryan Coogler.

Like, we're not only hearing about it, we're seeing it. Like, that's a. That's. That's. That's more than friends. That's a family. Right. That's that kind of, like love and friendship and relationship. Right.

That Ryan has to the people around him, because folks feel safe around him. Folks feel like he is trustworthy. Like, folks trust in his vision, but also trust him. It's beautiful to see.

And it's, again, I think, just also added to. To all of my emotions right From. From. From last night. Because, you know, as a filmmaker, you're constantly thinking about, you know, how.

How folks feel on set, how people, you know, feel about a role or feel about, you know, because of course, I'm a documentary filmmaker and eventually would love to go into. To narrative, to narratives, but, like, just being. Just talking from, like a documentary filmmaker's point. Point of view.

I'm always thinking about whether or not the folk. The person across from me feels as though they can share their story and they're.

And to feel as though that they're in a safe space in order to do so. And so what I want to do constantly is. Is prepare.

Create a space where people feel safe People feel like they can depend on me, that I am being very clear on, like, what my expectations are and what. But what the vision is that I have for a project.

And I just feel like it's very inspiring to have a director that's not only doing that, but also lifting as you climb. Right. So with bringing on someone like Autumn, to then see her gracing the stage with her win is just incredible. Sandra Naik, your thoughts?

Yeah.

So speaking about kind of like Ryan Coogler's influence, apart from the fact that he's just a black man and he's had to navigate this world being placed in a box, I think what's great about him is that yes, he has this vision and yes, he has this kind of, like, goal of creating, like, cinematic masterpieces that actually have a point of view in a story. He also has found this, I think, like, very great.

We'll call it, like, blend, if you will, of that, of what he wants to do and providing a space where nobody needs to fit a box. Because if you even think about his background, he started off as a student athlete in college, playing football. I believe he was studying finance.

He got his BS in finance and then he went on to get an mfa.

That is one of the most well rounded backgrounds that I can think of to just, like, be able to bring that perspective of like, hey, you don't have to be this one thing, which I think that other directors do.

Like, for example, if we're talking about like, Yorgos Lanthimos and like his relationship with Emma Stone, sure, they have a great partnership, but it's the same. It's like he sees characters in actors and he like, sees them as this one thing.

Whereas Ryan Coogler has this, like, beautiful way of just drawing out the emotion and depth and like, even something that you didn't think you could do, because he knows it like he sees it and he wants you to shine and he wants you to get your flowers.

So I love that he always builds a team and a cast and a crew that actually gives perspective to a movie, not just, like, is able to execute on something.

Sure.

And then, you know, honestly, the vision of sinners, like the actual making of that movie was such an audacious, like, undertaking in the first place that for it to look the way it did, think about how hard it can be, at least historically, for people to capture black skin on film, especially at night when the only light is a fire in all these different apertures and tones. Honestly, it feels a little weird that it was a Surprise that she won.

Because to make that movie look that good and to actually turn that vision into a reality through the cinematography. Yeah, that feels like a no brainer. Like whoever did that should win. And it just so happens that it was a woman, which is why it was so surprising.

Yeah, 100%. God, there's so much that there's so. There's so many layers. I see Coco over here nodding like there's so many layers to what you just said.

Right.

And then.

Yeah, I was even just going to say kind of to the, the team dynamic of what Ryan Coogler brings to the table. Michael B. Jordan is twice, three times, four times the actor he was when he did Fruit Bell Station with Ryan,

his first film, which was already incredible.

Like, already incredible. But you really look at what Michael B. Jordan is able to do on camera today and Ryan Coogler has brought so much out of him and give

him the space to just like, give

him the space to be more than just like eye candy, which he is.

Respectfully. He is respectfully. Absolutely.

And yeah, well, like you see that and you even see Wumi who if you hear her head voice, insane. The work that she was able to do vocally. But she talks about how the two look different.

One of them had dimples, one of the twins had dimples, the other one didn't.

Stack had the dimple smoke. Did not have a dimple.

And someone said Stack is the one that came to the Oscars last night.

Nice too.

I heard he was wearing different shoe size.

Different shoe sizes.

He wore tighter shoes for Stack to keep him light on his feet and bigger ones on smoke to like drag him down. It's. It's intense what he did to make that character come to life.

It's intense.

Twice the work.

Twice the work. In order to be half as recognized.

Right.

Speaking of which. Okay, getting into this is the part of the podcast. I mean we've been doing this throughout.

But you know, I'm always here for more shade because the Oscars beyond some both. So we see that first. Not the, not the first sequence, but we were first seeing we're first introduced to the twins on screen.

Just again, the fact that Michael B. Jordan is playing two characters and having them side by side sharing a cigarette and the fact that it didn't win. Was it filmmaking or not? Sorry, film editing.

Editing.

But yeah, film editing or Visual effects. And I know that Bri had something to this, especially about Avatar winning.

Yeah, yeah. Come on.

Come on.

Like, really, Like, I just. Avatar is glorified blackface for me.

Ooh.

Hell, yes.

And I just. Because really, we are letting a white man go in, put on a bodysuit of a culture.

Yes.

And go in here and start mucking around. Do you think he's a savior? And it's like, please listen, listen. Okay, so for that one to win, I guess.

And I feel like that was a. Avatar has been this holy grail since it first came out. Like the, you know, biggest grossing movie. Yeah. Which I'll say that to people, and they'll be like, really?

It is.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And I think it's been this holy grail. And I. And there's so many in the queue, and I feel like they're gonna get their sympathy. Not sympathy, but, like, just, like, customary nods.

And this was their customary nod, one that they thought no one would fight over. And we can make sure that all of them have something to, you know, tip their caps to. And I don't think it's any more than that. Sorry.

Yeah. No, for real. This is also the same director that said his. So at least for the second. The second Avatar film.

But James Cameron got up here and said, you know, just with all of the audacity of a white man. No offense, Chris, but also. But he also said, like, the fact that.

Or basically his whole motivation was, this is what I imagine that this story would be. What would happen if Native Americans had the tools to fight back against the colonizers.

Oh, brother, this guy stinks.

I'll flip this table over because. Are you serious?

That's out of his mouth. And just, you know, just saying it, thinking, oh, yeah, no, this is a great thing that I should have said just then.

Or this is a great motivation for a film, which. And I know there have been, like. There have been comparisons, of course, that.

And I've made, like, to Avatar, people were saying that Avatar was like. Was it Dances with Wolves? And I said, wolves? Yeah. This is wolves. And I said, I'll do you one better. It's Atlantis. So. Because, like, I get.

I get the Dances with Wolves comparison, but I'm also just like, I'm gonna take it a step up, actually.

A shout out to FernGully. Come on, now.

Oh, thanks. Oh, my gosh.

Honestly, pick any white savior movie.

It's that,

you know, Pocahontas is in the chat, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Revenge for. Yes. Oh, it's crazy. Also getting into. Well, hold on. I want to hear from anyone else if you have, and I'm sure you do, before.

Before we get ready to move on here. Any more shade for anything. Because of course I'm here for it.

My only shade is that I watched the first Avatar and then I didn't watch the second or the third, especially on theaters. And I had them winning one award all the entire Oscars. And I was like, I mean, they're probably going to get just like a pity visual effects.

Like that's probably what it has to be. And yeah, it was. We had it. As will win. And then obviously Sanders should win.

And as no surprise, of course, to anyone who's listening or watching, first of all, Paul Thomas Anderson getting best director and obviously best picture for one battle after another. Just. No, absolutely not. Also first casting. We had casting as a new category this year and one battle after another takes it. Which. And I.

And I heard people like arguing about like, you know, the casting director. Right. Bringing in, you know, new people. And I'm like, okay, but Sinners did the same thing as. Well, Sinners did this the same way. We got Miles Caton.

Right? We got Miles Caton. Jamie Lawson has been like, she's been in a few things, but I mean, she's virtually unknown. I don't know about him. Right, exactly.

Brought in Lee. Lee, who played Grace, brought in Yao, who played Bo Chow.

And while Buddy Guy obviously has been playing jazz for a long time. You in? They introduced him to brand new audiences and generations now. Yeah.

He's also been playing Buddy Guy for a long time, too.

I'm gonna keep writing for Jack o'.

Connell.

I'm sorry.

On that week.

Jack o'.

Connell, if they had a villain category,

I would have definitely. For sure.

But I will say. What is it? Paul Thomas did not shout out his cast during his best director speech. And then he fixed it during the best picture or whatever.

And I'm just saying Ryan would never.

Ryan would never.

Ryan would never. That's all.

It's also telling. He didn't shout out his black wife

who wanted to take out.

I missed that. I missed that.

Well, he's married to Maya Rudolph and I didn't hear him mention Maya. I didn't hear him mention his mixed kids. I didn't hear him.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Cause my aunt told me that I was like, wait a minute.

Because I knew he was married to Maya Rudolph, but I didn't know that he had missed out on thanking her.

I didn't Hear it?

I mean, maybe he didn't. I just missed it.

But I have to. We'll have to check and see, but. Oh, my God. Yo, not Maya. What? Okay. Wow. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. Y' all just, like, total. My.

My mind is blown right now because I totally missed that. Okay. Again.

Meanwhile, I know they was married. That's crazy.

Wow. See?

Yes.

What.

All I'm saying is that Ryan Coogler's wife is not, like, an actress or, like, in the limelight. And we know, like, we know who props Ryan up.

We hear about Gen Z every moment. And as a. As a fellow big wife guy, you know, I can't imagine making people and not having her come to mind.

You know what I mean? Right, Exactly. That would be the first, like, out of the blue. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. See?

So, see, before we, of course, wrap up, I do want to also mention there were not as many political speeches as I thought there might be. But there were definitely. I'm always. I'm always looking for that, because, of course, this is our Voices project.

We center black, brown, indigenous peoples. And again, you cannot talk about or center any of these communities without being in solidarity and community with them. Right.

So that's my firm belief as a filmmaker. So the two highlights, for me, at least, and y' all can also, you know, share if there were any other moments.

But for me, it was Javier Bardem getting up there and saying no to war and free Palestine. And I was just like, yes. The room that I was in was also, like, clapping for that. So I was like, okay, awesome, awesome. We're in a safe space.

Oh, that could be dangerous.

Exactly. And two, I really. And I missed this film, but I've been wanting to see it.

It was showing at the little theater, and I wanted to see it, so I'm going to look out for it. But, Mr. Nobody against Putin when they won.

Yeah.

It's a little to go see.

I know. Yeah. It was on your birthday. It was on your birthday. We will have to go. We'll have to find it and watch it.

But the speech that was also given by the winner or the. I believe it was the director, when he starts talking about, you know, this is what happens when, you know, you have.

He's basically talking about authoritarianism. Right. And obviously, with it being the times that it is, you know, and what we're.

What this political climate that we're in right now, it was very timely. It was also very well said. If you haven't listened to that or watched that, definitely go and look for that.

So Mr. Nobody against Putin won for best Documentary Feature Film. And so I would highly suggest that you go back and watch that speech because it was really inspiring.

I also liked the speech by K Pop Demon Hunters when they won. I believe it was for best. I mean they won for so animated feature film, but also one for best original song. Again, we were here for I lied to you.

But of course if someone else has to. I mean someone, someone joked and said well, I mean K Pop is a, A, A child of, you know, you know, black artistry. So I guess like, I guess there

is the irony is not lost on us.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So like in a way we still won. So you know. But I also thought that their speeches were, were just great all around as well.

It was really, it was really nice. But yeah, so those were the things. Were there any. Those are the speeches that really.

Yeah captured my attention and that I really appreciated if there were any, you know, around podcast. Anyone else have any speeches that really got to them or any other moments from the ceremony?

I think kind of going off of that same theme of like the politics of it. Like I. This is also where, you know, best international feature going to Sentimental Value robbed us of another one of those moments.

Yeah.

Because I do think that it probably would have been the secret agent otherwise which we all know the political implications of that or it was just an accident. We don't know the political implications of that.

That or the voice of Hindran Rajab.

I mean all the rest of them

for sure. Because it was also too. It was like I was now I was here for the voice of Hindra Job.

But of course like, you know, I'd heard about the others especially was it Seurat and the secret agent.

But even, but with, with the Voice of Hindra Job there was all the news that was also circulating about the, the main star who's Palestinian, who has a Palestinian, who has Palestinian citizenship, who wasn't allowed into the country. So that's why he wasn't able to be there tonight. So again it's. Yeah, you are absolutely correct. And usually that's.

Usually that's what we get, you know, especially within this category. I'm, I'm remembering was it Boon Jong how or Ho who did Parasite and Snowpiercer who was talking about, you know, the importance of.

He's talking about, you know, inclusion especially watching more foreign films and not being afraid of like the little, you know, the forgot how he puts It. But he said something to the effect of, you know, not being scared of subtitles, basically, and, you know, branching out and expanding.

You know, your. Your palette, if you will, is as far as film goes. So. Yeah, so that was definitely missing.

I know Conan o' Brien made a few, like, jokes here and there and stuff, but, like, what I really here for, of course, was, was. Was for the winners and them using their platforms. Right.

To talk through the things that are very much relevant and happening right here in the world.

And yeah, also just one more quick thing now that I'm remembering, which is usually what happens at the end of a podcast, but hey, you hear, and I appreciate, you know, talking to you all about this, but one more thing. Is it the in memorandum portion of they forgot Malcolm Jamal Warner. Oh, my. You know what I'm saying?

So I. What is it? Because people were also. I didn't realize that because I, you know, I didn't watch the whole thing.

No, that's not.

But what is it? I had seen that people were upset about Vanderbie. James Vanderbie from Dawson.

Yeah, that's right. She didn't get it either.

Eric Dane. So only thing I will serve up is that they're known for TV and that that might.

Okay, maybe.

Okay, that's because. Absolutely. We could ride for my. Malcolm.

We can ride for.

We absolutely ride.

But I do. I do think it was because they

were friends from T. Okay. All right.

Okay.

So that's an asterisk next to it. Yeah, yeah.

Like, we can still side eye.

We can still side eye. All the side eye. All the side eye. Okay, so any final thoughts before we wrap up?

I'm glad Sinners left with something.

They left with something. They took.

They.

Listen, they took up. They took a thing out of Denzel's and was like, we leaving here with something, period.

You know, I. Michael B. Jordan is our generation stenzo. I do. I think he is moving into that space very clearly. His talent, his persistence in work and what he chooses.

I think he is very much building that kind of legacy for himself for sure.

And he is setting himself up for a very special like 40s, decade and 50s of acting, especially once, like, maybe he's a little bit less muscly, but still fine. Who, you know, have all that going for him. Yeah, I. I guess that's kind of my last piece too.

Yeah.

Honestly, we didn't maybe talk about his win enough and how much I loved that moment and loved how the entire room was kind of rallying around him and like, him Shouting out all of the, like, actors who came before him, who kind of, like, blazed the trail and allowed him to get into that space as well. So that was really. That was really poignant. Very lovely. And I. That was the joy that I needed to, like, wrap up the night. I was like, this is.

This is it.

This is what I wanted.

This is exactly. Yes, that is exactly. I've been watching all of the reactions to that. Like, it's just been coming up in my feed.

And so, like, folks who were filming themselves, like, watching who was going to get best actor.

And so for seeing folks just screaming at the top of their lungs, which is definitely what I did, which all, you know, for Michael just shows you again how how much sinners, not only just like sinners, resonated with so many people and then how so many people were rooting for this film, but also just rooting for him because of the incredible. The incredible performances. Right. That he gave within the same film. And I also love that he shouted out all of those people, especially Will Smith.

Right. Someone says every year someone should just go and slap Chris Rock. I wouldn't be mad at. To be quite honest. Would not be mad at, you know, because he.

I'm sorry. He deserved it, y'. All. He deserved it.

He has a slappable face.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yes, he really, really much does. But I also. Yes. Because Will is no longer allowed. Right.

At the Oscars, but to still give him that shout out. Well, I. I loved that. I absolutely loved it.

And he's a pioneer. He's a pioneer in so many different genres.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Which. Which I'm really excited for those two to work together in I am Legend 2. Like that.

That's right. Oh, my God.

And then just in case you want another reason to not rock with Variety, one of their articles today was sinners did make Oscars history as the first film to lose 12 nominations.

Somebody fired.

Please, somebody throw the entire. Throw the entire publication in the trash. Just throw it all out. White supremacism and Rolling Stones. Just fun.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, I. Listen, y'. All, I can talk about this all day, and I mean, if you wanted to do a part two, I'm always down for it.

Just to talk more about films, of course, in general, especially our, you know, some of our. Our winners. But I really thank y' all for being on the podcast today. It was really an amazing, amazing time.

Just, again, reliving last night's moments. They're definitely. Of course I would have loved to see sinners win at least half of those playing in our faces like this. But of course it's on brand.

We are always disappointed, never surprised, which I also feel is a great, great segue into mentioning that. So there are other award ceremonies that we absolutely need to be lifting up. You know, that do champion black centered films and black people.

There is the NAACP Awards. There is also the aafca, so that's the African American Film Critics Association. I don't believe it's televised, which someone should change.

But those are where they're lifting up people. And it's also where we saw Hedda actually mentioned by nia, which also was a huge snub. So yeah, so if you didn't already know, now you know.

So definitely go and tune in and or tune in and pay attention to those film award shows because we really do need to be lifting up those especially in within these spaces. Like the oscars, like the BAFTAs. Yeah, for sure.

But again, thank y' all so much for joining the podcast listeners will have information about our guests and where you can follow and support them in the show notes or in the description below. If you're watching on YouTube, wherever you're listening from, hit that subscribe button.

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Be on the lookout for not one, but two more episodes this week honoring Black women directors.

Throughout this month, we have been paying homage to two Black filmmakers that you should be talking about, some of which you may have heard of, others that you may have not. But of course, either way, you won't know until the show premieres, so make sure you subscribe.

This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema. As always, thank you for listening.