Shownotes
Episode Summary
Dr. Christian Toma is the Founder and Chief Science Officer (CSO) at Kalera, a technology-driven vertical farming company that is delivering sustainable ultra-clean, nutrient-dense produce year-round. Kalera is the world’s largest operator of vertical hydroponic farms. Today, Harry and Dr. Christian discuss the nuances of shifting from CEO to CSO, the inspiration behind the HyCube, and how Kalera is expanding its International footprint through targeted acquisitions. Dr. Christian shares his passion for engineering and plant science, what goes into building a world-class team and how he has evolved as a leader.
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Key Takeaways
07:13 – Dr. Christian Toma joins the show to discuss his vertical farming origin story, the inspiration behind the HyCube, and how Kalera has expanded and evolved over the years
15:23 – A passion for engineering, problem-solving and plant science
18:34 – The inspiration to launch Kalera and the work Dr. Christian and his team are doing
21:32 – Building a world-class, passionate team and how Dr. Christian has personally evolved as a leader
25:56 – The impact that mentors have had on Dr. Christian’s success
27:13 – The decision to go public and how the industry has matured recently
30:54 – Shifting from CEO to Chief Science Officer (CSO)
34:53 – Expanding Kalera’s International footprint and acquiring Endeavor
37:27 – A tough question Dr. Chistian has had to ask himself recently and upcoming projects that Kalera has in the pipeline
41:29 – What keeps Dr. Christian motivated
42:08 – Something Dr. Christian has changed his mind about recently and a specific ask he has for his colleagues
44:31 – Harry thanks Dr. Christian for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can go to connect with him and learn more about Kalera
Tweetable Quotes
“Actually, that’s the whole idea with vertical farming. It makes a lot of sense to do it when you can locate your farms very close to your customers and distribution centers for major customers.” (13:36) (Dr. Christian)
“I was always very interested in healthy food, not only the value of it, but how to improve our daily nutritional intake - starting with my own family - and then realizing there was a real need for that. And, in talking to head chefs from all of these high-end hotels, we realized there was so much desire to improve the quality of their offerings.” (19:06) (Dr. Christian)
“I think that no matter how much technology you use, if you don’t have talented growers, the quality suffers.” (22:34) (Dr. Christian)
“Leadership is a people business. So, yes it was also a personal journey for me going from being focused on technology, technology management, and technology development to working with people. I learned a lot from them and hopefully they learned from me as well. But yeah it’s a transition. I would say being very crisp and focused on your message so you don’t put out confusion is super important.” (23:54) (Dr. Christian)
“Singapore is becoming known as the ‘Food Valley,’ sort of like Silicon Valley, given their challenges of being a net importer for ninety percent of their food needs.” (35:56) (Dr. Christian)
“Something I’ve changed my mind about is that at one point I thought that maybe vertical farming could solve all the issues in the world, but no. We have to understand that we have a place in the food system. And I don’t want to say we need to be humble, but we cannot chase projects that are too unrealistic because many of these projects end up using more resources and creating more problems than we want to solve. But continuing to innovate and expand our footprint in the food industry, but doing it in a way that makes sense and doesn’t use more resources than other existing approaches or more traditional approaches.” (42:13) (Dr. Christian)
“We know that our product is good. We know that we’re growing the product in a way that, in many aspects, is more sustainable. We are addressing some real issues in the food chain. We really need to focus on the economics.” (44:16) (Dr. Christian)
Guest Resources
Dr. Christian Toma’s LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctoma2000/
Kalera – https://kalera.com/
Kalera Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/KaleraProduce/
Kalera Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/kaleraproduce/
Kalera Twitter – https://twitter.com/kaleraproduce
Kalera LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/company/kalera/
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Mentioned in this episode:
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews
Transcripts
$680 million poured into precision ag last year.
Speaker:Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in 3
Speaker:months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a
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Speaker:Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report From iGrow News is now
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Speaker:farm and don't know where to begin or which technology would suit your needs,
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Speaker:help connect you to the right technology and ensure your project is successful.
Speaker:Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their partners.
Speaker:Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And that's spelled
Speaker:C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D dot com,
Speaker:or click the link in the show notes. At one point I thought that maybe
Speaker:vertical farming can solve all the issues in the world, but no. I mean,
Speaker:we have to understand that we have a place in the food system and, you
Speaker:know, not chase projects that are too
Speaker:unrealistic because, you know, many of these projects end up using more
Speaker:resources and create more problems than we want to solve.
Speaker:Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with
Speaker:fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.
Speaker:Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical
Speaker:farming with your host, Harry Duran. Vertical
Speaker:Farming Podcast, Season 6. Regular listeners, welcome
Speaker:back. New listeners, we always roll out the green carpet. If this
Speaker:is your first time listening, I'm positive you're in the right place. This is the
Speaker:show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading vertical farming
Speaker:companies from around the world. I'm your host, Harry Duran. In case you
Speaker:missed last week's exciting episode, it was with David Ahmed, the founder and CEO
Speaker:of Hexafarms. It's a startup developing software for
Speaker:controlled environment agriculture systems, and what they do
Speaker:is pretty interesting. They are looking at data and leveraging the
Speaker:potential of AI to identify the optimal growth conditions for
Speaker:crops grown indoors. And in that conversation, David
Speaker:and I talked about not only AI, And its impact on vertical farming,
Speaker:but a new term that I learned, normalized difference vegetation index,
Speaker:and also what his experience has been like working with the Techstars team out of
Speaker:Berlin. So positive feedback from this
Speaker:episode, and I think you'll really enjoy it if you haven't had a chance to
Speaker:listen to it. If you're interested in what's happening around
Speaker:the ability to detect anomalies with crops or
Speaker:using AI for improving the yields
Speaker:of your harvest, I think you'll find that episode very interesting. Staying with the
Speaker:trend of science, we have a conversation today that I've been looking forward to for
Speaker:several months. It's with Dr. Christian Thoma. He is the co-founder and chief
Speaker:science officer at Calera. And in this conversation, Dr.
Speaker:Thoma and I talk about his move from CEO to CSO, the
Speaker:inspiration behind the HyCube, and how Calera is expanding its international
Speaker:footprint through targeted acquisitions. He shares his passion
Speaker:for engineering and plant science and what goes into building a world-class
Speaker:team and how he's evolved as a leader as well. Don't forget, if you are
Speaker:enjoying this episode or past episodes, I'm still on the Look out for those reviews.
Speaker:If you are the person I'm talking to, you should probably pause this episode and
Speaker:head on over to ratethispodcast.com/vfp. You can
Speaker:do that on your phone, you can do that on your desktop. I would love
Speaker:to read these out on future episodes. It always makes my day when I see
Speaker:those come through. Okay, before we jump into this uninterrupted conversation with Dr. Christian
Speaker:Thoma, here are a few words from the folks that support this show.
Speaker:This episode is brought to you by Indoor AgCon 2023. I'm
Speaker:so happy to have been working with the team last year. Indoor AgCon 2022
Speaker:2 was my very first indoor farming conference, so it was really
Speaker:eye-opening for me. So I'll always be grateful to the team there for rolling out
Speaker:that carpet for me, and I really had a good time meeting a lot of
Speaker:past guests and excited to join them again this year. Entering its
Speaker:10th year in a row, it's the largest trade show and conference for vertical farming
Speaker:in CEA, and it's returning to Caesars Forum Conference Center in
Speaker:Las Vegas on February 27th and 28th of 2023. Once
Speaker:again, they'll be co-located with the National Growers Association show as well, which
Speaker:is a really good fit for them. The conference keeps growing, and this year it's
Speaker:doubled in size. The expo floor now has more than 170
Speaker:booths filled with new product resources and solutions to explore.
Speaker:You'll hear from experts including CEOs, growers, investors, and
Speaker:others in the field during this full-scale educational conference.
Speaker:As always, you'll be able to connect with peers, grocers, and other potential new business
Speaker:partners at their great networking events. I haven't even gotten to the best
Speaker:part. The team at Indoor AgCon has given
Speaker:listeners of this show 20% off their
Speaker:full-access conference pass. All you have to do is use promo code
Speaker:VFP, as in Vertical Farming Podcast, and sign up at
Speaker:indoor.ag. See you there. Regular listeners to the show will
Speaker:know that we are also fans of the work being done by the iGrow News
Speaker:team. The team at iGrow has been kind enough to provide a free
Speaker:month of their paid subscription to the Indoor Vertical Farming Newsletter,
Speaker:and those will be available to the first 3 listeners that send in a
Speaker:review. So ratethispodcast.com/vfp, the first 3
Speaker:reviews that come in, Once it's sent, send an email to [email protected]
Speaker:along with your preferred email, and we'll be sure to get that set up for
Speaker:you. So, Dr. Christian Thoma, founder and
Speaker:chief science officer at Calera, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast.
Speaker:Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Where's home for you?
Speaker:Orlando, Florida. How long have you been there? Well, since
Speaker:2007, with a brief break from the great
Speaker:Florida weather when I went to the Silicon Valley to San
Speaker:Jose, yeah, for a few years, but then came back to Orlando when we founded
Speaker:this company that we're going to be talking about today. Okay.
Speaker:And where did you go to university? Where did you do your studies? Originally
Speaker:I'm from Romania, so I studied there and in the
Speaker:Netherlands. Then I came over to the US in '94 for
Speaker:my postdoc at the University of Colorado. Okay. Then
Speaker:after that I went into the industry. I worked prior to founding
Speaker:Calera, I worked mostly in the semiconductor and
Speaker:biomedical industries, both with large companies
Speaker:like Becton Dickinson in the Silicon Valley, but also with a
Speaker:few startups. But I was always, especially after
Speaker:2000, I was looking for opportunities in the emerging green
Speaker:economy. And this opportunity came when
Speaker:the other co-founder of the company, who unfortunately passed away
Speaker:5 years ago, landed an engineering project to
Speaker:help redesign the master plan of a green city,
Speaker:to turn a city plan into a green city in the style of
Speaker:Masdar City in Abu Dhabi. And it was a larger team.
Speaker:Our small team worked on some specific aspects of a green city, one
Speaker:of them being local food production. And it was
Speaker:2009, 2010, and this is when we were asked by the
Speaker:project owners to do an analysis of a vertical farm.
Speaker:So we did the unit economics analysis. Back
Speaker:then, the unit economics was not there yet, especially because of
Speaker:the status of the lighting technology. But we saw
Speaker:the LED modules, the LED technology that was advancing
Speaker:really fast. Yeah. And we saw that maybe in a couple of years they're going
Speaker:to be there. And this is when we decided to form a company, and
Speaker:that was 2010. After we founded the company, we
Speaker:kept, you know, working on the concept and started working on technical
Speaker:details, and we really accelerated the development in
Speaker:2013 when we found our first group of
Speaker:investors. Out of all places, they came from Norway.
Speaker:Okay. So that explains why for a while we were a Norwegian— owned by
Speaker:a Norwegian holding, and actually we went public first in Norway,
Speaker:the Oslo Exchange, a couple of years ago before moving to
Speaker:NASDAQ recently in June of this year.
Speaker:Initially, we started with smaller installations. Our
Speaker:first focus were on the hospitality industry. So that's when you
Speaker:worked at— when you created the HyCube? Exactly, exactly. So
Speaker:the HyCube is a 2,000-square-foot growing facility
Speaker:on the premises of the Orlando World Center Marriott, which is
Speaker:actually the largest hotel under the Marriott flag. Yeah.
Speaker:So it's a 2,000-square-foot grow room which has a glass
Speaker:facade Very visible, high PR and high
Speaker:educational value, high marketing value for the hotel as
Speaker:well. So it's literally pick to plate. So
Speaker:the farm is 20 feet away from their
Speaker:culinary operations. Cannot get closer than that unless you
Speaker:have a vegetable patch at your home. Yeah. So
Speaker:we opened officially in April of 2018,
Speaker:still operating, still providing fresh lettuces and herbs
Speaker:and microgreens to the hotel. That facility really put us on the map.
Speaker:We ended up in the 2018 sustainability
Speaker:report for Marriott International. So we had a
Speaker:few other iCube-like project opportunities with
Speaker:some, you know, high-end hotels around the country. But
Speaker:operating that facility for a year, we realized that it's very
Speaker:difficult to scale up a vertical farming business. The
Speaker:way our investors wanted with small
Speaker:installations like this. So in 2019, we
Speaker:decided to pivot to larger farms, quote-unquote plant
Speaker:factories, and we opened our first one also in
Speaker:Orlando, built in a standard warehouse. It's a
Speaker:33,000-square-foot farm out of which 20,000 is
Speaker:the grow room, and we had the first harvest in March
Speaker:of 2020. The initial focus for the farm was
Speaker:food services in the Orlando area, so it was designed for that,
Speaker:with that in mind. Unfortunately, our first harvest
Speaker:coincided with COVID hitting really hard in this country,
Speaker:so for a while the food services business went away. Orlando being
Speaker:the largest tourist destination in the US, $70-80
Speaker:billion tourists per year. Yeah. The city was hit really
Speaker:hard. I'm sure. Especially the business groups, the
Speaker:conventions went away. So we had to pivot really quickly
Speaker:to retail, and we're very fortunate to get
Speaker:Publix, which is the major grocery retailer here in Florida,
Speaker:as a customer pretty quick. So we had to arrange everything
Speaker:on the Post Harbor side to fit the requirements of retail packaging
Speaker:line, and now Publix is still our
Speaker:largest customer, you know, in the retail space. But that was quite a
Speaker:story to tell the grandkids. We
Speaker:had our first delivery to Publix Friday night
Speaker:in April 2020, just the Friday
Speaker:night before Easter. Everybody was there,
Speaker:you know, from top to bottom of the organization packing and
Speaker:labeling and making sure that first shipment goes out.
Speaker:Yeah. We had a deadline for Saturday morning at 5
Speaker:AM. How big was the shipment? Well, it was a truck of boxes,
Speaker:so that's, you know, 26 pallets. Yeah. And we made it at
Speaker:3 AM. We're ready. And at 5
Speaker:AM, a few minutes before 5, the truck went out. And in this
Speaker:area, the Publix distribution center is very close. And
Speaker:actually, that's the whole idea with vertical farming. It makes a lot
Speaker:of sense to do it when you can locate your farms Very close to
Speaker:your customers. Yeah, of course. And, you know,
Speaker:distribution centers for major customers. So then, you know, we
Speaker:started expanding. The next farm was Atlanta, twice
Speaker:the size of Orlando, 75,000 square feet in the outskirts of
Speaker:Atlanta. And that started operating
Speaker:early 2021, followed by
Speaker:Houston, which is larger, 85,000, 88,000 square feet.
Speaker:square feet because everything is larger in Texas,
Speaker:large population areas. Yeah. And then followed by
Speaker:Denver. Houston started operating in September, October
Speaker:of 2021. Then Denver, we had a big opening in April
Speaker:of this year. So our approach was to try
Speaker:to expand as much as possible. So we tried to create a
Speaker:national footprint so we can talk to larger food
Speaker:services and companies and larger
Speaker:grocery chain companies that are looking
Speaker:for that partner that can supply at a national
Speaker:level. And this was, in a way, the strategy was indicated
Speaker:with the partnership that we signed with US Foods this year.
Speaker:Yes, I saw that. I think it's the 3rd largest food
Speaker:services company in the US, very innovative great
Speaker:partnership. They really have a long-term view and they understand
Speaker:very well the challenges of, you know, today's challenges with
Speaker:the food distribution systems, especially for fresh produce. Yeah,
Speaker:fantastic partner to have. So that's a fantastic
Speaker:recap of your journey with the company. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:I'm curious, just rewinding the clock back a little bit, you know, you got your
Speaker:start in engineering and I'm wondering if that's always been a passion for
Speaker:you, like Do you remember even going far back to growing up as a child
Speaker:if this is something that was a passion for you, just this idea of engineering
Speaker:or learning how things work? Definitely, yes. And I was
Speaker:always on that track, math and physics. My studies are in
Speaker:digital signal processing and image processing and electronics.
Speaker:That's something that, you know, 30 years ago might have sounded
Speaker:kind of strange. Yeah, future. Today,
Speaker:you know, precision agriculture is all about collecting data,
Speaker:putting data in context, and that context coming from, you know,
Speaker:plant science. And then, yeah, today you can't think of
Speaker:precision agriculture without machine learning, computer vision,
Speaker:big data analytics. Yeah. So that background came in,
Speaker:you know, very handy. Also, in a way, I'm following in my
Speaker:father's footsteps. He was an agronomist. Okay. And he
Speaker:used to say, you know, don't be an agronomist, You're gonna end up spending half
Speaker:of your life in the field, dusty and thirsty, and go be an
Speaker:engineer. Yeah. So I became an engineer, and about
Speaker:30 years later, what do I do? I grow lettuce. You'll probably not
Speaker:recognize now, you know, many of the systems and
Speaker:the methods that we're using, but ultimately, you know, the plant
Speaker:science is almost the same. Do you remember when,
Speaker:as you were studying and learning about engineering, When you started to become
Speaker:interested also in plant scientists, or because of
Speaker:like your family history with agronomy, that this was something that was always in the
Speaker:back of your mind? Well, I remember that one of the first
Speaker:projects that I worked on as a young graduate was to analyze
Speaker:satellite images. Okay. To do
Speaker:automated land use classification. Yeah. Back
Speaker:then, that was— yeah, it kind of dates me.
Speaker:mid-'80s, we're using Landsat images. One
Speaker:image, we used to call them scenes, the trade
Speaker:name for that, it's maybe 7 spectral bands,
Speaker:4,000 pixels by 4,000 pixels. You had to
Speaker:pay $5,000. Wow. One image like that,
Speaker:multispectral image. In these days, you have, you know,
Speaker:drone services that can map your fields
Speaker:accuracy, actually at a resolution that's much higher than what
Speaker:you could get with a Landsat image. And it's a service that, you know,
Speaker:you pay monthly and you get the images with the
Speaker:stress spots marked. It's just amazing how imaging
Speaker:and, you know, has evolved to the point where these services
Speaker:can be offered in a very affordable way to farmers. And then
Speaker:there are working in biomedical imaging. So I had the chance
Speaker:to to work at San Jose with very talented
Speaker:biophysicists and biochemists looking at
Speaker:classifying cells and doing this at very high speed and high
Speaker:accuracies. So that was quite an interesting experience to see how
Speaker:you can use algorithms and computer vision
Speaker:to look at biologic processes. So if you think
Speaker:back to, let's say, probably
Speaker:2010, '11, '12, as you're starting to come up with the idea
Speaker:and you're having conversations with your co-founder, can you put yourself in that
Speaker:mindset? Like, what was the idea? What were you seeing? What was the
Speaker:inspiration? You know, because working for— in a company is, as you know
Speaker:now, is very different than starting your own. And you started out as
Speaker:CEO as well. So I'm wondering what that thought process was like for you
Speaker:in those early days, just as you were thinking about starting Calera. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker:I was always, you know, very interested in healthy food
Speaker:and nutritive values and how to improve, you know, the
Speaker:daily nutritional intake, you know, starting with my own
Speaker:family and then realizing that there is a real need for
Speaker:that. And then talking to head chefs from all these high-end
Speaker:hotels, we realized that there is, there's so
Speaker:much desire to, you know, to improve the quality of
Speaker:the offerings, and many times they're limited by the
Speaker:quality of the produce that they were getting through the regular channels. And
Speaker:so we kind of followed the guidance early on,
Speaker:the guidance of these chefs. And I have very high regard
Speaker:for talented chefs because I think it's an art that combines
Speaker:both the culinary art but also the art of running a business. Yeah.
Speaker:And so we followed their lead actually. So our first
Speaker:installation was actually a very small-scale, we call it
Speaker:cube, that was built inside the warehouse where we
Speaker:experimented with growing methods. And we also used it
Speaker:as a showcase for chefs. And initially they were a
Speaker:bit reluctant. Back then people still thought that hydroponics, maybe
Speaker:products don't taste as good as field-grown products. But
Speaker:so we just, you know, Brought them in and, here, taste. You know,
Speaker:this is lettuce, this is basil, this is, you know, please go ahead. And we're
Speaker:just standing there watching them, how they were, you know, initially
Speaker:they were a bit reluctant, but then they realized, oh, this is so
Speaker:intense. So, please, I want to have this
Speaker:cilantro in my kitchens. Were you surprised or was that
Speaker:something that was— because you had done, obviously, you knew what you were creating,
Speaker:you knew the difference in the taste and the freshness. But
Speaker:obviously there's nothing like hearing it directly from the chefs who are
Speaker:standing in front of you. I was not surprised because we knew the quality
Speaker:of the product. So we're elated.
Speaker:And they became our biggest champions. That's the case with the
Speaker:Marriott Orlando World Center. The initiative was
Speaker:started from the head chef and director of food beverage
Speaker:services who, you know, took it up the their
Speaker:organization and we ended up building this IQ. But
Speaker:always, I mean, we tried always to go directly to the people who
Speaker:actually can discern the quality and then
Speaker:get them to use our product. Where did you look in those early
Speaker:days? One of the most important things at that stage is
Speaker:ensuring that you're building the right team. Right. And so
Speaker:you have to have people that you trust, but people that can also do the
Speaker:work and that are just as passionate about this project as you.
Speaker:So You know, what was that like in those early days to figure out who
Speaker:was going to be the right people to move this idea forward? I've
Speaker:found that, you know, in my life that you don't really know somebody unless you
Speaker:work with them, or at least for at least, you know, 3 months. I would
Speaker:say that 2 most important hires that we made early on were
Speaker:the 2 master growers that we hired,
Speaker:super talented, both with plant science degrees,
Speaker:young and know, energetic. They both went through
Speaker:the hydroponic internship at Disney. Okay. EPCOT
Speaker:Center. So that's a fantastic program. Every— oh yeah, it's a
Speaker:6-month program and they get exposed to many
Speaker:hydroponic systems and, okay, you know, to the discipline and rigor of a,
Speaker:you know, commercial farm. I think that, you know, no
Speaker:matter how much technology you use, if you don't have talented
Speaker:growers the quality suffers. Yeah. This is why
Speaker:we like to say we're farmers that use technology
Speaker:rather than technologies that happen to farm. And you can see, you
Speaker:know, we bring in new hires, new candidates, you kind of
Speaker:see maybe in 2 weeks, you see who's a talented grower and who
Speaker:actually belongs maybe somewhere else, you know, in the organization. Yeah. But
Speaker:now, I mean, these 2 gentlemen, they're still with us. And now
Speaker:one of them is the director of R&D for US and The
Speaker:other one is a director of food safety and actually plant
Speaker:production for all the US farms. So that's a key for any
Speaker:vertical farm. I think that's a key set of skills
Speaker:that, you know, we have to attract. Yeah. Do you find that nowadays—
Speaker:I see on the website you're up to 360 employees, and so
Speaker:obviously the challenges are different now, but how did you
Speaker:grow, or how did you change or what skills did you have
Speaker:to acquire as a leader in those early days? You know, because prior to
Speaker:that, you know, this is— you were working as part of a
Speaker:team and for someone. And I'm curious about what your journey has been
Speaker:like personally in terms of your development. Personally, yeah. So
Speaker:leadership is a people business, right? So yes, it was also a
Speaker:personal journey for me personally from going to being
Speaker:focused on technology, technology management, technology
Speaker:development to, you know, working with people. Learned
Speaker:a lot from them, and I hope that they learn from me as well. But
Speaker:yeah, it's a transition. So I would say,
Speaker:you know, being very crisp and focused on your message
Speaker:so you don't put out, you know, confusion out there to the
Speaker:organization is super important. Yeah, so people in an
Speaker:organization, I found that they need a clear direction, a clear message
Speaker:and then, you know, reinforce it over and over. Yeah, I think that
Speaker:was one of the best lessons learned for me personally.
Speaker:At one point when we started building all these large farms,
Speaker:so I don't have a background in the food industry.
Speaker:Mm-hmm. So at one point when we became, yeah, we turned
Speaker:the corner from a development company to a commercial-oriented company,
Speaker:the whole management team had to be reorganize and we need to
Speaker:bring in actually a new management that comes from that industry.
Speaker:Because at one point you have to change from
Speaker:development towards more of a process-oriented company.
Speaker:Yeah. Especially in, you know, consumer packaged goods. So this
Speaker:is when we hired first Chief Operating Officer Austin Martin,
Speaker:who is now the President for US Operations, who comes from many years of
Speaker:Through experience in the food industry at all levels and with
Speaker:all aspects. And then we saw this in our farms.
Speaker:At one point, you have to be focused on processes so you can get
Speaker:that, you know, reduce the variability of your output, get your yields
Speaker:week after week after week, the throughput yields to be consistently high.
Speaker:It requires technology, but it also requires discipline and
Speaker:execution at the farm level. So that's one big shift that we had to
Speaker:do, you know, 2 years ago when we started expanding with
Speaker:large farms around the country. So as you were growing in your
Speaker:career and your leadership, you know, were there relationships that
Speaker:you nurtured that were important for you or mentors that were helpful for you along
Speaker:the way? I got a lot of good advice from some of
Speaker:our early investors who are still with us. For example, LGT,
Speaker:impact investor, sustainability-oriented investor who
Speaker:has a long-term view. Just great advice on
Speaker:focusing on the essentials, you know, trying
Speaker:not to spend too much time in the weeds, you know,
Speaker:at this level of leadership to make sure that, you know,
Speaker:fundamentals are good and the direction is good. And, you know,
Speaker:just selecting, you know, your challenges and, you
Speaker:know, addressing the important issues first and keeping an
Speaker:eye on the long term rather than getting you know,
Speaker:drowned in the noise. Yeah. So in terms of handling
Speaker:people, great advice from my other co-founder,
Speaker:Mr. Christian Albanescu, who unfortunately passed away 5 years
Speaker:ago. He always, you know, had put a lot of
Speaker:trust in people, especially after they proved themselves,
Speaker:you know, to be trustworthy in the
Speaker:organization. Yeah, this would be the top of my list. Very helpful.
Speaker:One of the things that made news obviously was the decision to go public on
Speaker:NASDAQ. And I'm wondering, as a team, as you started to think about
Speaker:that decision and the factors that led up to that, I'm wondering if you could
Speaker:share a little bit about what was happening leading up to making that decision as
Speaker:a management team. Well, it was in a way a natural step for us
Speaker:because we're in this structure where basically we were a
Speaker:US-based company, but with a, you know,
Speaker:under a Norwegian holding with all the investor base and,
Speaker:you know, being listed in Norway. So it was not a
Speaker:natural structure given where the most of our
Speaker:operations were. So it was at one point a
Speaker:natural progression. We have to come to move our listing
Speaker:to the US because this is where we belong. Yeah. You know, most of our
Speaker:operations belong here. And plus, we needed to extend our
Speaker:investor base as well, and we need to be able to talk to
Speaker:investors that are focused on, on the US market.
Speaker:That was the main reason. Yeah. And so as you think about structuring
Speaker:the company and adding the board of directors and other people who can advise you
Speaker:from different industries, how have you found that to be helpful in terms of
Speaker:decision or strategy, in terms of thinking about where the company is going to be
Speaker:going for, especially in this environment? You know, it's been competitive, so many companies
Speaker:entering the space as well. Well, we're very fortunate to have
Speaker:some very experienced people on the board. So as
Speaker:we move to NASDAQ, we have a board that's structured
Speaker:according to the requirements specific to a
Speaker:US-listed company. So we have to have, you know, the governance
Speaker:structure that is required with the governance committee, the audit
Speaker:committee, and you have to have people that experienced leading those
Speaker:committees. And while we had Kim Lobdroup, who was the
Speaker:CEO of Red Lobster, as the chairman, and he was a
Speaker:well-known, you know, professional in the industry, so he was able to
Speaker:open some doors for us and attract other very experienced
Speaker:people to join our board. So it was something that we built
Speaker:over a year in terms of structuring the board. Yeah,
Speaker:so these are individuals that have experience of for many
Speaker:years with other public boards, you know, helping us
Speaker:tremendously to make sure that our governance approach is
Speaker:sound and, yeah, everything is in order to meet the SEC
Speaker:requirements. What's been your perspective as you've seen the industry
Speaker:mature? Because you were obviously early and you had a lot of opportunity
Speaker:to do some early innovation in the space. But it's been, you know, I've been
Speaker:hosting this show for 2 years and it's been interesting to see how much growth
Speaker:has been happening in just that short period of time. And obviously you've seen just
Speaker:as much, if not more. And I'm wondering what your take is on how the
Speaker:industry is maturing. Well, I mean, I think that there is a lot of
Speaker:money that went into the industry. I think that as an
Speaker:industry, we got to a point where we really have to prove our unit
Speaker:economics. And being a public company, obviously we have reporting
Speaker:requirements, so we have to disclose a lot of our aspects of
Speaker:our performance. As an industry, we really have to prove, you
Speaker:know, the potential that we have, not only from the point of
Speaker:improving the food system, but also the economic
Speaker:performance. So this is what I think everybody should focus on, including
Speaker:Caldera, to perfect our operations, increase our
Speaker:sales performance such that we can prove to our
Speaker:investors and, you know, to the rest of the markets that, yes, this is a
Speaker:viable industry from our perspective.
Speaker:It's obviously— we still think it's a viable industry, but we really need to
Speaker:focus on these aspects. How has your
Speaker:day-to-day responsibilities changed? Because you started in the CEO role and now
Speaker:you're Chief Science Officer. And so what are the things that you're thinking about now
Speaker:in that role that are different? And where do you find more of your focus
Speaker:going now? Well, so as a Chief Science Officer, I'm more
Speaker:focused versus, you know, previously on longer-term projects,
Speaker:working on some projects that have the potential to provide some
Speaker:technological breakthroughs with respect to energy
Speaker:efficiency and the ability to control
Speaker:better the growing process, you know, involving things
Speaker:like novel sensors and robotics and machine learning.
Speaker:I really think that it's very important. Genetics is very important.
Speaker:As you know, last year we acquired a seed development company
Speaker:called Vindara, which is a startup coming out of the Technology
Speaker:Triangle in North Carolina. Vindara is developing
Speaker:new plant varieties using machine learning. Okay.
Speaker:So they're developing a database that allows
Speaker:the system to accelerate the breeding process
Speaker:for a leafy green variety going down from to 7 years to
Speaker:12 to 18 months only through analytics, no
Speaker:genetic engineering. So this is done by providing
Speaker:or allowing a more targeted breeding
Speaker:process towards a set of traits that
Speaker:you're targeting for the final product. And this is
Speaker:done through strictly through analytics. So seed is
Speaker:probably one of the most important inputs in the process. So you see
Speaker:other companies are focused on this aspect as well, but we believe
Speaker:that with Vindara having this capability in-house,
Speaker:it's very important. So we're looking at new varieties bred
Speaker:for yield but also for nutritive value, you know, good things
Speaker:like antioxidants, for example. Yeah. Increasing the nutritive
Speaker:content of plants in general. So that's something that
Speaker:I'm very interested in. Then there is also the
Speaker:continuous crop improvement program that requires
Speaker:data collection and analysis. And how do you automate
Speaker:that to improve the speed of validation of
Speaker:yields? And yeah. Are you seeing or noticing
Speaker:the availability of talent for these types of roles?
Speaker:Because it seems like with what you described with the acquisition of Indara,
Speaker:that there's this They obviously had discovered that there was a need for
Speaker:this type of AI-driven plant breeding, which obviously
Speaker:you found value in as well. And I'm wondering if this is opening up
Speaker:opportunities for just more interest in this type of science
Speaker:because of the need for companies like Calera that need
Speaker:people that understand this and are able to take advantage of these technologies.
Speaker:Definitely. I mean, bioinformatics is a hot topic and there are some great
Speaker:programs out there. college programs. So I also
Speaker:happen to sit on the advisory board for the
Speaker:Agricultural and Biological Engineering Department at the University of Florida
Speaker:Gainesville. Okay. So this is where engineering
Speaker:meets plant science. Yeah. And yeah, they have wonderful
Speaker:programs and research programs and teaching programs
Speaker:oriented towards machine learning, modeling. Yeah,
Speaker:these skills are in high demand. Yeah, you go to any ABE
Speaker:department, agricultural and biological engineering department, you will
Speaker:see a lot of focus on machine learning these days.
Speaker:University of Florida, I think it's investing $200
Speaker:million in AI across, you know, different
Speaker:colleges and departments, and some of this money is going to the
Speaker:agricultural department. So you can see college
Speaker:graduates coming out who are very qualified. Yeah.
Speaker:And plus we do indoor agriculture, so they don't need to
Speaker:spend too much time in the field, dusty
Speaker:and thirsty. Like, yeah, like in the old days. You're also
Speaker:expanding your international footprint. Why was that important for you?
Speaker:Well, there are certain regions that are very attractive for this industry.
Speaker:Middle East, given the climate, Southeast Asia,
Speaker:you know, huge market. expanding market with tremendous expansion
Speaker:of the middle class there. So last year we
Speaker:acquired this German company called Endeavor, and now it's Calera.
Speaker:So geographical expansion was one of the reasons. When we acquired them, they
Speaker:already had a farm operating in Kuwait. Okay. And
Speaker:in the middle of the desert, literally, and a farm in construction
Speaker:in Singapore. In Singapore, we're also setting up our
Speaker:global R&D center. We have very good relationships
Speaker:with the Singaporean government. Actually, that farm
Speaker:was also possible because of a grant. It was a competitive
Speaker:grant process that was awarded to
Speaker:Endeavor. Okay. Yeah, it was something like 3 million
Speaker:Singaporean dollars being awarded towards the building of
Speaker:that farm. So Singapore is becoming known
Speaker:as the Food Valley. Si Gom Valley, Food Valley. Yeah.
Speaker:Given their challenges in being a net importer for
Speaker:90% of their food needs, at the government level, they have
Speaker:a lot of programs to bring some of that supply on the
Speaker:island. So you probably are aware that they're
Speaker:becoming a leader in plant-based and cultured-based meat.
Speaker:Yeah. Which is great for the planet because of
Speaker:the carbon dioxide footprint of fresh meat, which is very
Speaker:high. Yeah. So tremendous technology talent
Speaker:and, you know, a lot of programs at the government level that are
Speaker:focused on sustainable food production. So we're very
Speaker:happy that we're there. And the other reason for acquiring Endeavor
Speaker:was diversification of our product portfolio, which our first
Speaker:farms in the US were centered on mostly on whole head
Speaker:production and microgreens. The Endeavor team
Speaker:brought in the capabilities and knowledge of highly
Speaker:automated baby leaf production. Okay.
Speaker:So together we pretty much can cover the
Speaker:entire range of products in our leafy green
Speaker:product portfolio, from microgreens to full heads. Yeah, like, sounds like
Speaker:it was a very targeted acquisition that made
Speaker:sense and completed— sort of rounded out your portfolio
Speaker:of products you can offer. I like to ask this question just to
Speaker:kind of think about what's on your mind lately. What's a tough question you've had
Speaker:to ask yourself recently? Well, what's next,
Speaker:right, for vertical farming? Yeah, you see this in, you know,
Speaker:quite a lot in the industry. Some people are trying out, you know, crops
Speaker:that maybe don't belong in vertical farms. So that's one of,
Speaker:you know, one of the questions that we're asked a lot also by
Speaker:investors. Okay, you know, leafy greens, you
Speaker:know how to do that. It's, you know, what's next? So some people are
Speaker:looking at fruiting products, tomatoes,
Speaker:strawberries. Strawberry seems to be the holy grail these days.
Speaker:So yeah, we have, you know, internal debate, and actually,
Speaker:obviously, we have our own projects in this area. So the
Speaker:question is Does it make sense at large scale? Does it make
Speaker:sense to grow a product that is energy hungry
Speaker:even more than leafy greens? So we'll see. I mean, a lot is
Speaker:changing based on climate and
Speaker:geopolitical situations. Who knows?
Speaker:So personally, I think that what's next is— and
Speaker:actually we're already having a very clear focus on
Speaker:nutritive value. it's not enough to produce, you know,
Speaker:pounds and pounds, you know, millions of pounds of product, but that product,
Speaker:it has to have a nutritive value. Yeah. So I think that there is a
Speaker:lot of room there for vertical farming because we can control all
Speaker:the conditions. And once you add the optimized genetics for
Speaker:our conditions, then you can really think about, you know,
Speaker:superfoods and super crops. You know, how do you create, you know, an
Speaker:arugula that gives you, let's say, all the vitamin C
Speaker:that you need for one day in just one bowl. Yeah. So that's a good
Speaker:utilization of resources. Yeah, in my opinion.
Speaker:What are some of the projects you're looking to get accomplished over the next 5
Speaker:to 10 years at Calera? Oh, it's a long, uh,
Speaker:a long view. Yeah, obviously we have announced
Speaker:our plans to expand in the US. We want to cover,
Speaker:you know, all the major regions in the US. We already
Speaker:announced St. Paul and Seattle and, you know,
Speaker:expand in Asia, in the Middle East, which are, you know,
Speaker:very important regions for us. I mean, for me personally,
Speaker:again, I'm very interested in how far we can take this,
Speaker:you know, automated control of processes in a vertical
Speaker:farm. How do we not eliminate
Speaker:the expert, but how do we empower the expert with
Speaker:data-driven tools to help them make
Speaker:decisions? So these are all, you know, very interesting
Speaker:projects that I think will take several years to get them
Speaker:to fruition. Energy efficiency is so important
Speaker:in our industry. Yeah. So we're
Speaker:very interested in innovations Along that line. Yeah,
Speaker:I think a lot of people are interested in, you know, obviously carbon neutrality
Speaker:and, you know, biodegradable grow media. And I think
Speaker:there's a lot of interesting things happening in the space. Obviously one of the things
Speaker:people talk about a lot is, you know, just minimizing waste, right? Unnecessary
Speaker:packaging and, you know, water reuse. I think there's so many
Speaker:interesting things that are happening in the space as well. Yeah, I mean, you
Speaker:mentioned the substrate. So these days probably the most productive
Speaker:substrate is still the one that's peat-based. Yeah.
Speaker:But, you know, peat is not the most
Speaker:sustainable input. And actually in Europe, there is a directive
Speaker:to phase out peat-based products by 2030.
Speaker:So yeah, obviously we have projects looking at alternatives with some
Speaker:technology partners. That's a very interesting project
Speaker:and program. Yeah, it has to do with improving
Speaker:the footprint of your inputs. in the process, so it's very important.
Speaker:Yeah, it sounds like you're not going to be struggling to find things that are
Speaker:going to be keeping you busy. No, I wake up every
Speaker:morning very excited about the day ahead. What keeps you motivated?
Speaker:First of all, you know, seeing that consumers love our
Speaker:product. Sometimes I walk around with my Caldera shirt
Speaker:and I get stopped, you know, at the grocery store
Speaker:or at the gym and whatnot. Oh, Kalera, I like your products.
Speaker:Great. That's always a good feeling. So that's a huge satisfaction.
Speaker:I'm really motivated by how good our young growers
Speaker:are, very passionate. They're really good. I absolutely
Speaker:love them and they give me a lot of energy. Without them, I don't
Speaker:think we can operate the farms to the level that we want. I'm
Speaker:always interested in people's development over the years, so I'm
Speaker:wondering if there's Something you've changed your mind about recently?
Speaker:Something that changed my mind about— well, I mean, at one point I
Speaker:thought that maybe vertical farming can solve all the issues in the world, but
Speaker:no. I mean, we have to understand that we have a place in the food
Speaker:system, and I don't want to say humble, but be,
Speaker:you know, not chase projects that are too
Speaker:unrealistic because, you know, many of these projects end up using more resources than they're
Speaker:saving. and creating more problems than we want to solve. But just
Speaker:continuing to innovate and expand our footprint in
Speaker:the food industry, but doing it in a way that it makes sense and it
Speaker:doesn't use more resources than other, you know, than
Speaker:existing approaches, more traditional approaches.
Speaker:I think I changed my mind with regards to the best
Speaker:retirement age. I don't see myself retiring
Speaker:ever because You know, things are so— Still exciting.
Speaker:Yeah, every day there is new stuff coming out that is very exciting
Speaker:and keeps me motivated. This podcast is listened to by
Speaker:a lot of, like, your peers in the space, your colleagues, other CEOs as well.
Speaker:So just wanted to give you the opportunity. Is there a message that you have
Speaker:for your colleagues in the space? First of all, I'd like to commend
Speaker:the initiative that actually came to fruition and was
Speaker:presented this week at Vertical Farming Congress in
Speaker:Brussels, the Vertical Farming Manifesto that was
Speaker:signed and adopted by, I think, 23 of our peers,
Speaker:including Caldera. That's a great initiative, and it's
Speaker:an example that, you know, the industry, you know, can come together.
Speaker:So I think, you know, sometimes we're a bit too competitive
Speaker:against each other, but there is, you know, we can cooperate.
Speaker:in some aspects. My message is that we need to focus
Speaker:on the important things and make sure that we make this industry, you know,
Speaker:very attractive. I think we're turning the corner from being an
Speaker:industry under development where we get to the point where the industry
Speaker:has to prove its economics and its, you know, profitability projections.
Speaker:We know that our product is good. We know that we're growing
Speaker:the product in a way that in many aspects It's more sustainable.
Speaker:We are addressing some real issues in the food chain.
Speaker:We need to focus on the economics. Yeah, I think that's a good
Speaker:place to wrap up. I'm really inspired by your story. It's been interesting to
Speaker:see, you know, what the advice your father gave you is something you ended up
Speaker:taking. It took the long way and it probably didn't end up as he or
Speaker:you thought, but I think it's exciting to see how that
Speaker:played out. It was nice talking to you. to you, and thanks for
Speaker:having me on your podcast. Yeah, we'll make sure— so it's
Speaker:calera.com for folks to learn more about the company, all the initiatives. I know you
Speaker:guys put out a lot of updates, a lot of press releases on everything that's
Speaker:happening. Make sure we link to that as well. And I want to
Speaker:appreciate you again for taking the time to share your story. It's
Speaker:really inspiring to the listeners of the show to hear the origin stories for folks.
Speaker:So thanks for your time. Thank you so much. Thanks again to Dr. Christian
Speaker:Thoma for coming on the show and sharing his story. Always
Speaker:fascinating to see the different ways people are making it into this world of
Speaker:vertical farming, their backgrounds, and how they ended up
Speaker:contributing to this incredibly exciting and growing
Speaker:industry, which is something that I'm always looking forward to every week. Full show notes
Speaker:are available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com, summary, timestamps,
Speaker:key takeaways, resources mentioned, and we're also working on getting our
Speaker:YouTube page up shortly as well, as some of these are actually video
Speaker:conversations. So that's going to take a bit of an effort, so keep an eye
Speaker:out for that. Special thanks to our season 6 title sponsor Cultivated. If
Speaker:you're looking into a vertical farm and don't know where to start or which technology
Speaker:would suit your needs, reach out to them today. Best of all, their service is
Speaker:free because they work on behalf of their partners. Learn more at cultivated.com, and that's
Speaker:spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com. Just leave out
Speaker:that last E. Podcast production and marketing provided by Fullcast. Learn
Speaker:more at fullcast.co. And see if a podcast would
Speaker:be helpful for your business or brand. As a reminder, if you're enjoying the
Speaker:show, leave us a rating and a review at ratethispodcast.com/vfp.
Speaker:I'd be more than happy to read those out on future episodes. Tune
Speaker:in next week for my conversation with yet another fascinating leader from the world of
Speaker:vertical farming. This time it's Nadun Henayaka. He is the
Speaker:CEO of GAIA Australia. We get into some really interesting
Speaker:stuff that they're doing. not only in the world of vertical farming, but some work
Speaker:he's done at the International Space Station as well. Very exciting stuff.
Speaker:Until we meet again, here's to your health. Thanks for listening. To
Speaker:read the full show notes for this episode, which includes any links
Speaker:mentioned in the episode, as well as a full show transcription, visit
Speaker:verticalfarmingpodcast.com. There, you can sign
Speaker:up for our email list to be notified when new episodes are published.
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