Ever wondered what it would be like to go from 30 clients a week, burned out and underpaid, to a thriving private practice built around your values and strengths? In this episode, I chat with Natasha Dean, a clinician in Baltimore, about her incredible three-year journey from group practice overwhelm to confidently charging $200 per session and attracting right-fit clients.

Natasha shares the pivotal mindset shifts that helped her trust herself, market authentically, and stop playing small. We talk about how she found her micro niche (therapy for Muslim adult children of immigrants), transitioned off insurance panels, and discovered the joy of brainspotting intensives. She also opens up about how Confident Copy helped her write copy that truly resonates—not just for therapy, but for other creative projects too.

Whether you're on the edge of burnout or dreaming of a more aligned practice, this episode will leave you inspired to believe in what's possible.

Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode: 

1️⃣ Why being a "blank slate" therapist might be burning you out—and what happens when you finally show up as yourself 

2️⃣ The power of choosing a micro niche and how specificity actually attracts more of the right clients 

3️⃣ How Natasha reframed a "slow market" and leaned into long-term networking that continues to pay off

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Natasha’s practice: goldenhour-counseling.com
• Confident Copy: walkerstrategyco.com/cc
• The Walker Strategy Co website: walkerstrategyco.com

Connect + Subscribe 

Enjoying the podcast? Subscribe so you never miss an episode—and feel free to share it with a fellow therapist who’s building their private practice. Explore more marketing support for therapists: The Walker Strategy Co website: walkerstrategyco.com

About Marketing Therapy 

Marketing Therapy is the podcast where therapists learn how to market their private practices without burnout, self-doubt, or sleazy tactics. Hosted by Anna Walker—marketing coach, strategist, and founder of Walker Strategy Co—each episode brings you clear, grounded advice to help you attract the right-fit, full-fee clients and grow a practice you feel proud of.

Hey, hey, welcome back to Marketing Therapy.

2

I'm so excited to share this one with you.

3

In this interview, I sit down with Natasha

Dean, who is a clinician in Baltimore.

4

We talk all about her story, and we

cover a lot of ground here, but Natasha

5

shares about going from working in a

group practice, serving 30 clients a

6

week, whoever she's assigned to, to now

attracting right fit clients at $200 a

7

session, and doing it in a way that feels.

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Really authentic and aligned and

creating a practice now where she has

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margin for exploring other ways of

serving people, other revenue streams.

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We talk about a lot here.

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I can't wait for you

to get to know Natasha.

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And so enough for me.

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Let's get into it.

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Alright, Natasha, welcome to the show.

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Can you start with introducing

yourself, who you are, where

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you're located, a little bit about

yourself and your background.

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Natasha Deen: Yeah, so I'm Natasha.

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I am A-L-C-P-C and I am located

in Maryland, but I'm licensed

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in both Maryland and Virginia.

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And I support Bipoc clients, adults,

individual adults in doing deep

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work, trauma-informed care and brain

spotting, and my micro niche, um, it's

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therapy for Muslim adult children of

immigrants and kind of helping them

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take care of themselves the same

way that they take care of others.

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Yeah, I

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Anna Walker: think that

answered all of your questions.

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Perfect.

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Perfect.

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Tell me about the season of life or kind

of practice that you're in right now.

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I, we're gonna talk about your

journey and how you got here, but

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where are you finding yourself today?

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Here, 2025.

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And in this wild world we're living in.

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Natasha Deen: Yeah, so I am almost three

years into my own private practice.

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And there've been a lot of shifts

lately, so I have a few new

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offerings, so that's really exciting.

36

But I'm definitely in a place

that I didn't expect to be at all.

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It was like a dream to be in this position

that I'm in now, and I really didn't.

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Think that it was gonna

happen especially so soon.

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'cause I worked with you almost

three years ago when I first started.

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So like the amount of change that

I've gone through in just the three

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years has been, I've surprised myself.

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Anna Walker: Okay.

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Well I wanna know all about that,

but first take us back like to the

44

beginning, three years ago, even before

that, what was life like when you

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decided to jump into private practice?

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Where were you in your

life as a therapist?

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Tell us more about that.

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Natasha Deen: Yeah, so I was working

at a different private practice

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for working for somebody else.

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It was their practice and we

accepted insurance, so I was

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like getting a cut of a cut.

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You know, insurance takes their cut

first and then the practice owners

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take their cut and I think I was seeing

like 30 people a week on a good week.

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Yeah.

55

Wow.

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Yeah, it was, it was a lot.

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And then, you know, not

making as much as I felt like.

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Compensated for seeing that many people.

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I was actually at a point where I

contemplated leaving the field altogether

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'cause I was just like, I'm burnt out.

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I don't like this.

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We also didn't get to

choose who we worked with.

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They just kind of assigned people

based on availability and to some

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extent like what you offered.

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So it felt like a fit more

so on the client end rather

66

than like a both way fit.

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Yeah, so I really thought about

leaving and I think I had a couple of

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friends at the time who were starting

their own private practice and I was

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like, maybe that's what I need to do.

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Maybe I just need to do this in a way

that feels really fulfilling to me.

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Working with the clients that

I knew best how to help and

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felt like a really good fit.

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'cause I did have some on my caseload

who were a really good fit and I actually

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felt, I noticed I was feeling more

energized when working with those clients.

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So I was like, okay, maybe

I don't have to leave.

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Maybe I just need more

of this and that's what.

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Really the, the big thing that

pushed me into private practice.

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And then I found you, like from one

of my friends, Katherine, actually,

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she told me about you and I was like,

okay, let me see what this is about.

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And that was actually, um.

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I started my practice in September,

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with you like very shortly after that.

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I went and looked

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Anna Walker: it up before this talk.

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Yeah, and I believe it was

November maybe that you joined.

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Yeah,

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Natasha Deen: yeah,

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Anna Walker: yeah, yeah.

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I remember it being fall closer to

winter time, so that sounds right.

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Yeah.

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So when you decided to go into

practice, obviously you were hoping

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to work with people that you enjoyed,

to avoid or, you know, really remedy

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this burnout you were experiencing.

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Mm-hmm.

95

Did you have any other big goals

for what this practice would be?

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You mentioned that right now you're

in a place you never would've

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imagined, but back then, what were

you, what were you hoping for?

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Back then I was hoping

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Natasha Deen: for the bare

minimum, I was just like, I

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just wanna do good therapy work.

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I wanna feel more balanced and in a better

position as a therapist to be like my, you

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know, my best self, be supported in what I

need so that I could be a better therapist

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to the clients that I was working with.

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And that was really my only priority.

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And of course, you know, make

more money than I was making.

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But that was really it.

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I didn't have as big.

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What at the time felt like lofty dreams.

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And now like the more that I'm in

it and every time I hit a new goal

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or a milestone, I'm like, well,

I could, like, I could do more.

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I could, you know, I could dream for more.

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I could ask for more.

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I could do more.

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Yeah.

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And I think, you know, when

you're, especially as a therapist.

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You don't really feel like

you can dream that big.

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It feels like I have to just like,

I'm here to just serve other people.

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And that's really it.

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That 'cause like, you know, I think for a

lot of us that generally does, genuinely

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does, um, make us feel fulfilled.

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But then when you can do that and

take care of yourself and see how you

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can continue to support and help your

community in all these other ways when

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you're not burnt out, just trying to

like work with any client that comes

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through your door and you're, on

insurance panels and taking a cut of a or

125

getting a cut of a cut, like you are not

really thinking much further than that.

126

Anna Walker: Absolutely.

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It's hard to when it's just, you

know, paycheck to paycheck session

128

to session in those early days.

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Yeah.

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Early on when you decided to make

this leap from group practice, did you

131

do that all at once or did you, like

build your private practice on the

132

side while still working at the group?

133

What was that transition like for you?

134

That it was actually, in

135

Natasha Deen: some ways

136

Anna Walker: it

137

Natasha Deen: was really difficult and

in other ways I think it helped me.

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Be in the position that I'm in right now.

139

So like when I decided to leave my

practice and I had had the conversation

140

with them, I was originally planning

to slowly build on the side, but.

141

It just didn't end up going that way.

142

There were some issues and I had to leave

a lot sooner than I wanted to, and I just

143

kind of had to like jump straight into it.

144

And thankfully at the time I was living

with my parents still, so I was like,

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okay, let me just do everything then.

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Let me get off insurance.

147

Let me start my practice, let me,

you know, set a higher fee and just

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do everything at the same time while

I have the safety net, which is also

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why I think I didn't have as big.

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Dreams and goals.

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'cause I was like, I need to just, I

need to just like survive on my feet.

152

Yeah.

153

Yeah.

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So,

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Anna Walker: okay,

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Natasha Deen: so you kind of ripped off

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Anna Walker: the bandaid.

158

You did all the things all at once

there and just took the big leap,

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Natasha Deen: which is why I was like,

okay, now I need to go talk to Anna

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because how do, how do I like, not speed

up the process, but like, how do I do

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this right and get it right from the jump?

162

Anna Walker: Sure, sure.

163

Okay.

164

Interesting.

165

When you were in those early days,

and obviously we met pretty soon

166

after, what felt, if you can remember,

the most daunting at that time?

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So you'd made these decisions, you

started the practice, you raised

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your fees, you deep paneled.

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What was the biggest like dun, dun, dun

like thing you had to do or overcome?

170

Natasha Deen: Where am

I gonna find people?

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How are people gonna find me?

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Like through insurance, it's

really easy for people to find you.

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You get full really quickly through

insurance, but now it's like, I'm.

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I'm start and I was pretty early

into my career at that point too.

175

Anyway, I had graduated in 2019, so then,

176

being a fairly new therapist at that.

177

And then I'm like, okay, well I've

spent all this time not trying to.

178

Really make a name for myself, but

just trying to get, get into the swing

179

of things as a therapist, just trying

to figure out how to help people.

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And now I have to continue doing that

and figure out how to be a business

181

owner, how to start a practice, how

to do all these, and then do all these

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things that I didn't go to school for.

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Running a business, marketing,

you know, all of that.

184

Had to figure out how

to do all at one time.

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So that was, I think, marketing.

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And figuring out how clients will find me.

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Were the, like that they kind

of go hand in hand, but it was

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the scariest part of all of it.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Anna Walker: Making that

leap is, is terrifying.

191

So you heard about Confident Copy

from, from a friend, from Catherine.

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You joined.

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What stood out to you?

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It has been a while now and we got

to work together again as you sort of

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rejoined confident copy earlier this year.

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But in your original experience,

what support tools, breakthroughs

197

did you have or, or did you

find really stood out to you?

198

Natasha Deen: I think the biggest

takeaway from all of it was the

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emphasis on the copy, right?

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Like how to write copy and how

to write it in a way that is

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gonna attract your ideal client.

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While every like there was, there was

truly so much that was really helpful.

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I think.

204

That was the biggest takeaway because

even in some of the things that I'm

205

doing now, the things that I learned

from Confident Copy and how to write is

206

benefiting me in all of these other ways.

207

So like marketing in other areas

in some of these other like

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non therapy related spaces.

209

So that I think just that you

were like, okay, I am gonna

210

teach you guys how to do this.

211

I'm not gonna like, you know,

you have the done for you.

212

Programs, which is great, but you're

also like, I'm gonna show you how you

213

do this thing so that you're set up in

the future, which is so much of how I do

214

my work as a therapist, where I'm like,

I don't want you to be dependent on me.

215

I'm gonna give you these tools

and these skills so that you can

216

figure it out and I'll be there to

support you, and then you're gonna

217

be fine to go do that on your own.

218

So it, that resonated with me so much.

219

And that's exactly what

I got out of the program.

220

And I, I can't even tell you how many

times I've gone back to the vault and

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revamped my website or how many times

I've even gone back to the vault to

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use it for non therapy related things.

223

And it's just been incredibly

224

Anna Walker: helpful.

225

Yeah, I think it, it's interesting,

it's easy to discount words, um, because

226

words don't feel as sexy or shiny as

SEO or Google Ads or Instagram reels,

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and yet none of those things work.

228

Well, if you don't have

the words figured out.

229

Right.

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So I love hearing that

reflection from you.

231

It's, it's one of the coolest parts I

think about Confident Copy is not only

232

are you hopefully leaving with an idea

of your niche and a good website, but a

233

way of talking about and thinking about

your work and your marketing so that

234

whatever it is you do next, even if it's

non therapy related, you have a strategy

235

you can return to and you can trust.

236

Natasha Deen: Yeah, yeah.

237

No, I agree.

238

I think it's, and it like

confident copy is the perfect.

239

Name for it too, because it's

like, you also were encouraging

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us to be confident in these skills

and building these, um, building

241

these skills and using these tools.

242

And I think that that was another,

like really big piece of all of

243

this, being more confident in how

and, and how to express myself.

244

Like have that come across in

a really authentic way, not.

245

Therapist speak, but speaking to

an ideal client and really hitting

246

their pain points so they feel

like they're heard and understand,

247

understood before they even come in.

248

'cause I, it was like, I could do

that, I could do that in a consult

249

call and I could really connect

with people on a consult call.

250

But how, how do I write that on

a website for like, you know,

251

the general public, basically,

how do I connect with everybody?

252

And even that, I think, I can't remember.

253

Where I heard this before, but it's like.

254

As a business owner, you have

to say no more than you say yes.

255

'cause you're making room for all

of the, you know, right fit clients

256

or the right fit opportunities.

257

And I think like when we're talking about

niching down and when you're talking about

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speaking to an ideal client, it's like

saying no to the people who are not a

259

good fit right up front, which is really

scary, especially when you're in a place.

260

When you're like, I, but I need clients.

261

I don't have any clients, or I

need, you know, a certain amount of

262

income and I'm just not there yet.

263

So it, it made me think a lot of how.

264

You kind of like teach things

incompetent copy, where it's like,

265

it's okay to say no to these people

who aren't, aren't a good fit.

266

That just means you're gonna attract the

people who are a really good fit, who see

267

themselves in the way that you're writing.

268

And so when I could get out of that

head space of I'm writing so that

269

everybody can see themselves here,

it's more of you're writing so that the

270

person that you really do wanna work

with and do your best work with knows

271

that you're the right person for them.

272

Mm-hmm.

273

Just like you put in a consult call.

274

Anna Walker: Yeah, that's

a powerful shift for sure.

275

What surprised you most about

your own growth through the

276

process of Confident Copy?

277

You know, having gone from working with

this wide range of clients, whoever was

278

sent your way in the group practice to

now essentially getting to choose, getting

279

to say yes and say no, figuring out

your niche, what, where do you feel like

280

you grew the most through that process?

281

Natasha Deen: I think maybe just

like understanding a little bit more.

282

Of where my skillset lies, like

what I'm really good at, but

283

what I can do, what I can't do.

284

'cause before when it was just like you

have to, it felt like you have to fit.

285

Yourself into this box that like the

client brings into session versus

286

like, you are just here and this

client is also just here and you

287

guys just work from the beginning.

288

You've established that before

they even come in and you can like

289

authentically help them and even in ways.

290

That, and I've been really surprised

how I like my, some of my, I guess

291

like techniques even have changed as

a therapist where I went from trying

292

to be this blank slate to like, that's

not gonna work with my ideal client.

293

Like, I disclose a lot more, obviously

in ways that are appropriate, but like

294

having such similar life experiences to

some of my clients when just sharing.

295

Oh yeah, I, I know what that's like.

296

And not saying anything more,

they're just like, oh, okay.

297

Like, you get it, you get it.

298

Then I don't have to explain this.

299

And that really resonating with people.

300

But I couldn't do it before because one,

it wasn't true, it wasn't authentic.

301

And two, like it also felt like if I.

302

You know, going back to that

idea of fitting into a box.

303

If I couldn't fit in this box in

this way, then I had to like try and

304

figure it out in a different way.

305

And then you spend too much obsession in

your head and trying to figure out, well,

306

what do you need and how do I be that?

307

And that's not helpful to anybody.

308

Anna Walker: Interesting.

309

That's a cool, that's a

cool byproduct that as you.

310

Get clear on the work that you do

well and you attract the people

311

that you're designed to serve.

312

Like it, it serves everyone better, right?

313

What you, the therapist, you're able

to be in the room is a better therapist

314

because you're sitting down and you're

not in an uncomfortable box, right?

315

Yeah.

316

Yeah, exactly.

317

Cool, cool.

318

Um, alright.

319

Tell me about what you're up to now.

320

You mentioned having experienced

things you never would have, uh,

321

dreamt of, and you've also done

some kind of niche evolution.

322

Yeah.

323

So give us a little bit of an update.

324

Where's, where does Natasha

325

Natasha Deen: Yeah, so I think this was

something that you've also mentioned in

326

Confident Copy, but it wasn't, and I don't

know if I just like didn't pay attention

327

to it too much at the time, but you had

mentioned how like if you can get your

328

copyright, you can set your rate at a rate

that you need it to be, you want it to be,

329

and you will attract those clients and you

know, it's, it's not gonna feel like I'm.

330

Stating this quote unquote crazy

fee, and then you're trying to

331

desperately fill those spots.

332

So my fee is 200, which

is average for my area.

333

But it took me a little

while to get to that point.

334

'cause I was just so scared that

like, people aren't gonna come,

335

they're not gonna wanna pay 200.

336

And like, what do I have

to offer that's worth 200?

337

You know, those types of thoughts.

338

And so as I've, like I just

mentioned as I've evolved as

339

a therapist, seeing how like.

340

You know, there are things that

I offer that people need and they

341

would be willing to pay that amount.

342

And so I've also been able to do

brainspotting intensives, offer

343

Brainspotting intensives, which is

one of my favorite things to do.

344

And one of my goals was to like do that

more often so that I could see less.

345

People on a weekly basis and then

have brain spotting intensives and

346

still be like, okay, income wise,

but do more of that work That feels

347

really aligned with me and like, you

know, again, tapping into my skills

348

that I'm just like really good at.

349

So then doing that, making that shift.

350

I think within the past year and a half.

351

It's also given me more time in

my schedule to do other things.

352

So now like I'm in the middle of

creating a guided journal and like I

353

said, not like it is kind of therapy

related, but in a totally different way.

354

And again, using what I've learned

in competent copy to help like market

355

that journal and even some of like

the ways that I've written things in

356

the journal too, but like getting to

have, I think just live a life that's

357

more authentic and in a way that I get

to help people in so many different.

358

Ways as well.

359

Like not just feeling like my job as

a therapist is just to show up, see

360

30 people a week, come home totally

exhausted and drained, but like, no.

361

Now I get to come home and do more things

for people and support my community Yeah.

362

In another way.

363

Mm-hmm.

364

And still have that time for

myself and still be able to

365

meet my income goals and things

366

Anna Walker: like that.

367

So

368

Natasha Deen: yeah.

369

Anna Walker: How wonderful.

370

So you're at 200 a session right

now, and how are most of your

371

ideal clients often finding you?

372

It

373

Natasha Deen: used to be through

Psychology Today on my website now it's

374

like my website and networking and mm-hmm.

375

You know, both of that.

376

My website, you

377

Anna Walker: know, confident copy.

378

Yeah.

379

It all comes back to that.

380

It's, it's interesting how that works.

381

Yeah.

382

How cool.

383

To think back to, like you said, that

like seeing 30 clients a week burnt out,

384

contemplating leaving the field to now.

385

Having, like serving in all

of these different ways and

386

feeling a lot more fulfilled,

that's quite the transformation,

387

especially in just three years.

388

You mentioned being surprised

that you are here now.

389

What's the most surprising about them?

390

I think when.

391

Natasha Deen: You can really show

up to everything that you do.

392

Like, especially work authentically.

393

You open the door for so

many other opportunities.

394

And I just did not realize that before

because I could not be authentic

395

at work where it felt like I had,

again, fitting into that box and

396

trying to be what clients needed.

397

So that drains you too.

398

That burns you out too.

399

You have no energy left for

yourself, for your family, for

400

like other things, friends.

401

So when you're just like.

402

Like not getting to be who you are

and share your skills, your talents,

403

your strengths with the world, then.

404

You're like not able to meet

some of these other goals.

405

I think through confident copy, if I'm

able to express myself in a way that

406

speaks to my ideal client, and it's

not, again, you know, like it's not

407

about you, it's also about your client,

but in a way that works for both of

408

you, then that helps you to accomplish

so many other things that feel really

409

aligned with your values, your goals,

and it doesn't have to be in a way.

410

Feels like icky or gross.

411

Like I know when you talk about

marketing or networking, it's like,

412

you know, people feel like, it feels

like it has to be in the, these like

413

slimy, salesy, salesy kind of ways.

414

And it doesn't have to be like that

when you just, you show up really

415

authentically in your work, in your

copy, in the things that you do.

416

And so I was really surprised at how

many doors that open just by truly

417

being authentic and getting that across.

418

Anna Walker: Mm.

419

That's really powerful.

420

I want to talk a little bit about

the, um, micro niche that you've

421

identified and a little bit of the

evolution that you've experienced.

422

So recent or earlier this year, you joined

CC Extended, which is where you kind

423

of jumped back into the live calls and

things, which was so fun to see you again.

424

Um, what led you to sort of add on

this micro niche, um, and how is

425

that part of your practice going?

426

How'd you get there?

427

Tell me a little bit about that.

428

Natasha Deen: Yeah, funny enough,

I feel like it wasn't super

429

explicit on my website, but it

was what I was doing anyway.

430

So again, so again, like just trying to

get that across in, in the copy because

431

I think I had a client say I could tell.

432

What you do and like, you know, how you

work, but it was kind of subtle and I

433

was like, okay, well then I need to go

back to Confident copy and figure out

434

how to make it like, you know, more,

more visible, more like very clearly this

435

is what I do and this is how it works.

436

Um, and that's how I ended up coming back

and like getting really specific in the

437

micro niche because I think that there

was still a part of me that was trying to.

438

Write more broadly, speak to more people.

439

And like I said, even though there

were certain pages that I updated

440

or pages that I added, I think the

core of my website had stayed the

441

same since when I first joined.

442

So when.

443

Just like me being in a different

mindset after having worked with

444

clients where I could feel more

authentic with, and I was going, like,

445

I was trying to write this copy when

I was not quite in that place yet.

446

So seeing how that's

shifted and how I show up.

447

When I went back and actually

read through my website, I was

448

like, oh no, this is not right.

449

Like this doesn't resonate anymore.

450

So yeah, that's, I think.

451

Like you said that this was

kind of always my niche.

452

I just didn't fully realize that yet.

453

Anna Walker: Yeah, and sometimes

it does take sitting with it

454

and meeting those clients and

working with those clients mm-hmm.

455

To kind of feel like you have permission

to get a little bit more specific.

456

I think it's one of the cool examples

of how evolution is healthy and

457

normal and good and effective,

quite frankly, in your marketing.

458

Natasha Deen: I think it's really

interesting too that despite not having it

459

as explicitly stated on my website, like

the clients were still finding me and the

460

right fit clients, were still finding me.

461

So I think, like I hope that this

is kind of a proof to everybody that

462

even when you micro niche, like in

you're worried that you're not gonna

463

get certain people or you're worried

that like you need to speak more

464

broadly, there is something about you.

465

Something that you do that people need.

466

And no matter how you may try to like hide

that, it's not gonna be totally hidden.

467

It's gonna come out and people want

that and they're looking for that.

468

But you know, if you could just

be a little bit more clear about

469

it and explicit, then it's gonna

attract people so much more easily

470

and quickly and obviously Yes.

471

So I think, you know, that was

something else that surprised me too.

472

Like, wow, okay.

473

No matter what we do, even when we

try and be a blank slate, like that's

474

not really happening in that way.

475

Anna Walker: Interesting.

476

Yeah.

477

The power of of showing up to your

marketing in an authentic way.

478

We find ourselves right now in 2025,

I know you've heard the same thing I

479

have, that things have slowed down.

480

People aren't paying for therapy, it's

hard to get clients, that kind of thing.

481

Yet here you sit reaching goals.

482

You didn't ever imagine, you

know, charging $200 an hour.

483

Uh, you don't have to give me your

whole spiel on what you think the

484

market is doing, but what would you

say to those therapists who feel

485

discouraged or maybe do have those

thoughts or beliefs that success is.

486

You know, not possible or

harder than it used to be.

487

Natasha Deen: I, the piece about being,

it being harder than it used to be.

488

I've tried to reframe that

as like, it's just different.

489

It's, it feels harder because we got

used to something and now we have

490

to shift, but it's just different.

491

And like we had to do that

at the beginning, right?

492

Like whenever you started marketing,

you had to figure that out.

493

Most of us went to school

only for counseling.

494

Only for therapy.

495

So no matter what, I think it might be

just a little bit hard to shift into

496

a different mindset, but it's not, I

wouldn't necessarily say it's like.

497

Harder than anything that you,

you know, we've already done

498

and tried to figure out before.

499

And then I would say, look at the numbers.

500

Like I listened to your most

recent podcast episode and

501

that really resonated with me.

502

I think sometimes we feel that.

503

Things have slowed down.

504

And that might be true, but if you're

still hitting certain goals, like income

505

goals, if your income hasn't changed,

if you're still seeing, X amount of

506

clients a week or things are balancing

out, then like it, did it really slow

507

down or does it just feel different?

508

And so I think, trying to go based

off of facts versus feelings, which,

509

you know, as therapists we're all

familiar with, but that, that really

510

stood out to me that really resonated.

511

'cause I think in the

summer, for whatever reason.

512

It feels like things slow down a

lot more than they actually do.

513

When I, every single summer, I

go back and look at the numbers

514

and I end up being really busy.

515

I don't know, like sometimes I'm

seeing less clients, but I end up

516

being busier and I'm just like, what?

517

I still don't fully

understand what's happening.

518

I actually have to sit down

and look at my numbers too.

519

But I think like, you know,

other things might pick up.

520

I tend to try and market more

and revisit my website, and

521

so I'm busier in that sense.

522

Um, and I may not be busy directly

with client related things, but I

523

also find that doing brain spotting

intensivess people, because it's

524

shorter term, people will like, do

that in the summer than necessarily

525

be ready to do like deep longer work.

526

So I, I kind of see it from both

perspectives, doing both like

527

short-term and long-term work.

528

Yeah, I, I think just, yeah,

like really sitting down and

529

evaluating what's going on.

530

And I think the other part of it too

is when you're, again, just being

531

really clear about what you do,

people are always looking for that.

532

Even if it slows down, there's always

gonna be somebody who's looking for this

533

thing that you offer and this thing that

you do, or who you are as a therapist too.

534

And it's just a matter of like

when they're gonna find you.

535

The other thing I will say too

is, and I think you might have

536

mentioned this in that same episode.

537

It like the ups and downs

are always gonna be there.

538

Especially as a owning a business,

there's always gonna be ups and downs.

539

What you really have to look at is, does

it even out at the end of that year?

540

Because if it is slower in the

summer, but then every fall it

541

picks up and you make way more,

then like it kind of balances out.

542

Right.

543

That.

544

And when I started looking at it,

and now because it's been almost

545

three years, I have more information.

546

I can see more trends, but at the

very beginning when it was like,

547

well, this never happened when I

was taking insurance, this never

548

happened when, you know, I was working

for someone else, it did, but I

549

just didn't see it or notice it as

550

Anna Walker: much.

551

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

552

The seasonality and everyone's

seasonality is a little bit unique.

553

And the longer you are in it,

the more comfortable you can

554

be with those ebbs and flows.

555

But there's, it's very, it's so

natural to have a little bit of

556

anxiety when those things come up.

557

But you're absolutely right.

558

If we can zoom out and keep an eye on the

trends and the overall health as opposed

559

to just how it feels, usually we can make

decisions from a much more grounded place.

560

And, and if it is, like you said,

slower, then let's invest that

561

time in improving optimizing, yeah.

562

Dreaming.

563

About what else could, yeah, the

564

Natasha Deen: way that I look at it

too, I have summer be like my end of

565

year rather than December because.

566

Then 'cause you know, if you just look

at it from like summer to summer and

567

when things slow down, how it typically,

you expect it to typically be at the

568

end of the year and then look back at

that trend, then it, it looks really

569

different and it feels really different

than when you go like January to

570

Anna Walker: December.

571

What an interesting, I have never heard

of that, but that makes a lot of sense.

572

And I even just, that little reframe

could actually be really powerful

573

when you think about your number.

574

Yeah,

575

Natasha Deen: I think, and that I feel,

this is like a part of a much different

576

conversation, but I feel like the cycle

of things, like that's what's more

577

consistent with human nature anyway.

578

Like spring feels like the

new year versus in January.

579

So when I kind of started following that I

was like, okay, yeah, I feel like things.

580

Align a lot differently.

581

'cause when you see it as a drop in the

middle of the year, that's really scary.

582

But when you see it as like, I

think people think, oh, holiday

583

time, it's the end of the year.

584

Things will slow down.

585

I don't know if it's just me and maybe

the population I work with, but I've never

586

really seen it slow down at the end of the

year like that, like I have in the summer.

587

And so if you're expecting that at the

end of your year, just shift your year.

588

Anna Walker: Yeah.

589

Yeah, absolutely.

590

That's the, the solution here is to

just follow a different calendar.

591

I love that.

592

This has been so wonderful.

593

Natasha, I learned so much about you.

594

I didn't know all the ins and outs

of this journey you've been on.

595

When you look back over the last three

years, what habits or maybe mindset

596

shifts do you think have made the

biggest difference for you to, to

597

be experiencing the success you are.

598

I.

599

Natasha Deen: One of the biggest ones,

again, with networking, it's just building

600

connections and like as therapists

we're really good at doing that.

601

Anyway, once I realized that

that's all it truly is about, I

602

was like, oh, that's not so bad.

603

That's not so scary.

604

You get to just go out and make

friends and then hope that that

605

brings, you know, brings you clients.

606

Exactly.

607

And that makes it way less.

608

You know, stressful, anxiety inducing.

609

And I think like now, again,

now that it's, it's been some

610

time since I first planted those

seeds like three-ish years ago.

611

I'm starting to see those, uh, client

referrals come in more so from people

612

that I started talking to like almost

three years ago because now they,

613

they can like put more of a face.

614

To my name and they know

more and more what I do.

615

If I'm like showing up at certain

events consistently or you know,

616

responding in the group messages, then

they start to see like, oh, okay, like

617

this is a, it's like, you know, you

become familiar in their mind or they

618

get to know who you are as a person.

619

So then they're more willing to, or I, I

think more willing to refer to you 'cause

620

they know you, but you're also like.

621

Come to the top of their mind

because you're just showing up more.

622

It reminds me of election time when

people see certain names that it's just

623

like, I don't know anything about this

person, but I see their name all the time.

624

Yeah.

625

So it's kind of like that.

626

And so I'm seeing that way more

now, three years in than I was

627

necessarily seeing at the beginning.

628

So even if you're not immediately

getting the responses that you want,

629

like you're, you gotta, you gotta

think of it like the long game here.

630

You have to see way bigger picture.

631

And I know sometimes it can be hard to

put in effort when you're not seeing

632

some sort of result, but it really does.

633

Payoff.

634

It really does make a difference.

635

Yeah,

636

Anna Walker: that's a wonderful example

of, I think just staying in touch with

637

your marketing and keeping that long

game, um, because it's very, very easy

638

and in this market where networking

matters, I think more than it ever has.

639

It's very easy to get discouraged

when you don't get the email back or

640

you meet someone and they say they're

will send people your way, and they

641

never do, quote unquote, never.

642

You know, six months, a year, two

years, three years from now, like you

643

are planting a seed that has so much

potential, but you do, you have to be

644

willing to cultivate that and mm-hmm.

645

I think in this market, that's

a huge trend that I'm seeing.

646

The clinicians like you who are

experiencing success are the

647

people who are keeping the long

game remaining consistent, being

648

willing to evolve and pivot.

649

Um, and you're a great

example of all those things.

650

Natasha Deen: Yeah, and it truly

doesn't, like you can do it in

651

ways that feel really sustainable.

652

Like I'm in a few different group chats

and it can be hard to keep up with

653

group chats, but I think even if you

just jump in when people are having

654

more ca casual conversations or like,

I've seen people send funny memes.

655

You know what's actually really funny?

656

I had somebody reach out to me because

in a, a group, I think she asked for,

657

or somebody else, actually, it was

a different therapist had asked for.

658

A referral for like, you know, to

somebody offer X, Y, and Z, whatever.

659

And I had responded and I was just like.

660

Really, I, I was actually really short.

661

I was just like, yes, I do this.

662

And that was the end of it.

663

And then she was like, you know, asked

another question about something else,

664

and then I just responded with just that.

665

Like, it was very short back and forth.

666

And a few people in the chat were

like, I really like this conversation.

667

Like, just direct to the point,

like, it was kind of funny to

668

watch, but this, this was nice.

669

And I was like, you know, it's.

670

Day, it's the end of the week.

671

This is what you're

getting from me as a joke.

672

And then somebody else just saw

that interaction and she messaged me

673

separately and was like, I don't know

what it was about, just seeing that.

674

But I like, I liked that energy.

675

So like, you know, wanted to

talk to me based off of that.

676

And we've, I've referred a couple

of people to her and I'm sure

677

she's referred people to me too.

678

I just may not have seen it yet.

679

But even just simple,

again, being authentic.

680

Simple.

681

Being authentic.

682

I feel like that's the

683

Anna Walker: theme here.

684

Natasha Deen: Yeah.

685

Yeah.

686

Even that can be enough for somebody

to like have you on the top of

687

their mind or wanna refer to you.

688

It's the things that you wouldn't

689

Anna Walker: always think about, and

just being memorable, showing up as

690

yourself, being memorable, knowing

your zone of genius, your niche,

691

who you serve well and trusting.

692

I think there's a lot of self-trust and

just trust in your efforts here that Yeah.

693

Eventually does pay off.

694

Mm-hmm.

695

Cool.

696

Um, I know a lot of people are sitting

here listening to the story, Natasha,

697

and probably resonate with parts of

it, with serving 30 clients a week

698

or feeling like they are just working

with whoever comes in the door.

699

Considering leaving the field early on in

their practice, however that, you know,

700

they might resonate with your story,

what would you, what would you tell them?

701

Uh, I

702

Natasha Deen: think just.

703

Try something different.

704

You know, like it doesn't it, it

may not be like it was for me.

705

It may not be that you totally

need to leave the field.

706

Maybe you just need to do something a

little bit differently or see things

707

from a different perspective, right?

708

Like even marketing and networking, if you

just look at it a little bit differently

709

or shifting the way you like, look at your

yearly cycle, and that can change a lot.

710

So just try.

711

To do something, just even if

it's one thing a little bit

712

differently, and see how that goes.

713

Because I, I think one of the things that

I often forget is this is my own business.

714

I can do whatever I want.

715

Like literally I can do whatever I want.

716

And I have, yeah.

717

And I have moments where I'm

just like, oh, I can't do that.

718

Like that.

719

And then when I sit back

and I'm like, well, why, why

720

can't I do something that way?

721

And there's no real reason.

722

I think we're just.

723

Either conditioned by some of the other

environments that we've been in, or

724

you know, bigger picture things that

you were generally kind of conditioned

725

into thinking you have to work a nine

to five, or you have to do, you know,

726

these sort of things and you don't.

727

So I would say just kind of.

728

Take some time and sit with yourself and

really even start, like I said too at

729

the beginning, start to just dream and

ask yourself, what do you really want?

730

And I think truly that's how I've

accomplished some of my goals.

731

I remember a couple of years ago, I

was like, it would be really great

732

if I could see 10 clients a week

and do brain spotting intensives

733

like once or twice a month.

734

And I didn't really see.

735

Set out and was like, this is

how I'm gonna do that and this

736

is how I'm gonna make it happen.

737

I just like brought that goal up Often.

738

I talked about it with people in

my life and it was something that

739

I just sat and thought about and,

and was like, that would be great.

740

That would be really cool, and

here are all the things that

741

I could do if that came true.

742

And it was just from allowing myself

to want that and to, you know, think

743

about it that I didn't even realize,

but I started making decisions that.

744

Put me in that, on that path.

745

So I think even just, you know,

thinking about things a little bit

746

differently and then allowing yourself

to dream just a little bit bigger

747

and a little bit more, and then

748

Anna Walker: see what happens.

749

That's really wonderful, Natasha.

750

Thank you.

751

I'm so happy you're here today.

752

We are wishing you all

the success in the world.

753

If someone wanted to check out the

wonderful website that you've referenced

754

here, uh, where can they find you?

755

Natasha Deen: Yeah, so it's

www.goldenhourcounseling.com.

756

Perfect.

757

We'll put that in the show notes as well.

758

Anna Walker: Natasha, thanks

759

Natasha Deen: so much

for being here today.

760

Anna Walker: Thank you.