“How to support a spouse with OCD?” I typed into Google after another heartbreaking day.

It’s one thing to experience mental illness personally. It’s a whole other experience to watch a loved one struggle with their mental health.

In this special episode of Maybe This Will Be The Cure, I sit down with my husband Scott, for a candid conversation about navigating the complexities of marriage while facing mental illness and chronic conditions. Gain valuable insights, practical tips, and heartfelt anecdotes that provide a unique perspective on maintaining a strong and resilient relationship in the face of life's challenges.

In this episode we discuss:

• [02:30] - Our relationship timeline
• [05:39] - Navigating mental illness as a couple
• [09:35] - Coping with the challenges of having a spouse with mental illness
• [12:47] - Supporting a spouse with mental illness
• [18:56] - Staying connected in challenging mental health seasons
• [20:46] -  Emotional conversations: communicating vulnerabilities and witnessing heavy emotions
• [26:32] - Navigating chronic health issues + pregnancy complications as a couple
• [32:28] - Making health choices as a couple

Listen now for a genuine exploration of love, support, and understanding in the midst of adversity.

Links:

• Click here for the full show notes for this episode.
• Click here to get the FREE "New Years" Planning Workbook.
• @maybethiswillbethecure on Instagram

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Disclaimer: The information shared in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Consult your physician before making any changes to your health plan. The host, Megan, is not a healthcare provider. Always seek guidance from a qualified health professional for your individual needs.

Hey, and welcome to a very special episode of maybe this will be the cure. In this episode, my husband, Scott, is joining me as the very first guest on the podcast to discuss the complexities of navigating mental illness, chronic conditions, and parenting disabled children as a couple.

I decided to split our conversation into two episodes. In the first part, our conversation focuses on navigating mental illness and chronic health issues as a couple. In part two, we discuss parenting kids with autism and type one diabetes.

Welcome to Maybe This Will Be the Cure, a podcast where the wisdom of a healing journey meets the warmth of shared experiences. Join as we explore the topics of healing, living with chronic conditions, chronic pain, neurodiversity, mental health, and parenting kids with disabilities. I'm your host, Megan.

When I was planning out the first few episodes of this podcast that were going to be released sometime in February, I saw Valentine's Day on the calendar. And I love holidays, so it got me thinking about my forever Valentine, my husband, Scott. We've had, I think, 14 valentines together, and we've been married for twelve of those, and I'm so grateful to be married to him.

Our relationship is something that I've really been able to depend on through lots of challenges together. I know every couple goes through different things together, but I want to list some of the specific challenges we've experienced together over the years: mental illness (mine, his), pregnancy complications, parenting two PDA autistic children, with ADHD, OCD, among other things, our son's hospitalization and type one diabetes diagnosis, our kids PDA autistic burnout. Along with all the other stuff of life: like losing loved ones, moving, career changes, law school, etc.

So I thought it'd be fun to have him on to talk about how we're navigating these challenges together. And if you know him in real life, you can imagine the eye roll I got when I asked him to be my first guest interview on the podcast. But ultimately, he's my biggest supporter and the sweetest partner, so he eventually agreed.

To be honest, since this is one of my first episodes, I'm still pretty nervous about putting myself out there with this podcast. Even though I feel so strongly that I need to, I still just feel really goofy doing it. But Scott's the best, so if you find me unbearable to listen to, at least you get to enjoy listening to him before you tap out.

Okay, I thought we could start with a brief summary of how we met and started dating and how long we've been together. Do you want to give your version?

Sure. It's really one of the great romances of the 21st century. Some have said, I don't know. We grew up in the same town and we didn't really know each other growing up. We did have, like, a semester, when I was a senior, you were a sophomore, we were in seminary together. And then a few years later, you had gone to BYU for a year and came home, and we were going to the same church. And I asked you on a date, and we dated for a year, got engaged, and the rest is history.

Yeah, I would say that's about right. I remember when we were in class together in high school, you were really funny. And so I was always laughing under my breath, and anyways, I always thought you were hilarious.

So I remember when we were in our first year of marriage, and I remember thinking, people say that marriage is so hard, but this has been really easy and great. But then someone, I think it was my sister, asked us, “how is it being married?” And before I could say anything, you were like, “Yeah, marriage is really hard.”

So now that we're coming up on, what, 13 years of marriage, what do you think about being married to me or, like, our relationship?

What a great question. No, just kidding. Well, it is still going strong, so it must be love.

I think at the time it was an adjustment. You are the oldest, I'm the youngest. So it's one of those - I wasn't used to people just being around, maybe.

Waking you up at seven.

Wanting my attention, waking me up to do stuff. So I think it was more of learning to live with somebody else, that type of thing. Maybe I was just trying to be cliche, get a laugh, I don't know. But no, it's been a good 13 years.

Yeah, I think so.

Obviously, we're together, so things are going good. I don't know. I don't know how to answer that question.

But we're still married, so you don't hate it enough. Okay. Wow. Okay. So in the intro of the episode, I mentioned some of the things that we've navigated together as a couple. And I wanted to start with how we've navigated mental illness together as a couple. I've had depression, anxiety, most of our marriage, and sometimes it flares up. So I wanted to ask, what's it like to have a spouse that struggles with mental health? What's that experience like for you?

Well, it's kind of one of those questions that's hard to answer because I think it's such a part of everyday life. Not that it defines the person, their mental health struggles don't define them. But it is such a part of everyday life, that you adjust and you learn, really. I think early on in our marriage, as you get to know the other person more and more, you don't really know what it is. Especially early on in our marriage, it's not like we were like, oh, we struggle with mental health and whatnot.

Yeah. Even though I had struggled with it forever, I didn't realize that that was what was going on when we were first married.

Yeah. So we didn't have a language that we could use to communicate with each other. So I think it's a lot of growing up,, a lot of maturity. Just meaning, as you've struggled with your own things, with mental health, learning what you need and learning what I need and how to navigate those things. And those aren't things that you can-there's no handbook that you go into life and go, if this situation happens, this is obviously what you do, this is how you react. So I think a lot of it is just having compassion for the person, compassion for yourself. There's a lot of human nature involved. No matter what someone’s dealing with, just remembering, if your initial reaction to something going on is anger, frustration, remembering and reminding yourself of what someone's struggling with, and then that compassion can show through. So I think specifically for us, because everyone's going to deal with these things in different ways, it really has been, as we've grown together, as the years have gone on, being able to recognize. But also because it is such a part of everyday life, it's not like I'm consciously thinking, oh, this is mental health, this isn't mental health. And compartmentalizing it like that. It's more like I said, it doesn't define who you are, who I am, but it's just a part of our everyday life.

It weaves through everything.

Right. And because of that, you learn to, not go on autopilot, but there's some muscle memory. So it is easier to have compassion and to have empathy because there's a better understanding of what it is that's going on.

Yeah. Is there anything that you do to cope with the challenges of having a spouse with mental health issues?

There probably is. Nothing that I'm like, oh, I'm purposely [doing]. I generally am just in my own world, and so a lot of life is just going over my head as I am just in my own mind. So maybe that is how I am dealing with it.

I remember–you're a lot better now–but when our kids were younger, we'd be at the mall or something, and I have the two kids and, like, the stroller and the diaper bag. Our kids are running and I'm trying to keep track of everyone and you're just walking like 5ft ahead, like completely oblivious to everything going on. So, yeah, that could be how you cope.

Probably still do that. I just get in my own world.

Classic.

So I don't know if there's anything specific. Like I said, it's such a part of everyday life. And it's not so much that I'm not paying attention to what's going on, it's just, a lot of mental health is happening inside the brain for people, obviously. And so I think there's a greater sense to the person struggling. They think the outside world is noticing everything about their struggle, and oftentimes that's not true. So I think for a lot of these things, the struggle is happening inward. And yes, it does affect, it can affect behavior and it can affect mood and things like that. But I think for me, a lot of life is just going over my head. So I think I'm kind of just in my own world a lot. And I'm not constantly thinking about mental health because it is such a part of our life. It just is a part of our life. It is something I do think about. It's just not constantly on my mind. So I think on the day to day, I don't know if there's anything specific I do. I just think I just go about my day to day life. And obviously we talk about these things a lot.

You're naturally a compassionate person, and so you already show up that way. You're easy to talk to, and so that's just who you are. So dealing with my mental health struggles, you still are showing up in that way, even if you're not consciously thinking of it in those terms.

And I'm not the only person in this marriage that has dealt with mental health issues, mental illness, you have OCD. And in thinking about how to support a spouse that is struggling with their mental health, what was helpful for you when you were struggling? Like when it really flared up, was there anything specifically that I did that you found helpful?

Sure. I think you're really good at having empathy because of your own struggles. And so I think you were able to strike a balance between having empathy and showing support. But also at the time, we were still finishing up law school, and so balancing having that empathy and showing support, but also showing the strength of this will be hard, but we will get through this. And I think that's really, like, the biggest thing for people is just the ability for someone to, on an outward level, explicitly show support, to show that empathy. Because it is hard. There is a reality that it is hard. It is a struggle. It's not something that's just looming in the background that you can kind of ignore and kind of hope it goes away. And so I think in acknowledging that, while also having that empathy, at least for me, obviously, every person is different. So I can't speak in a generalized nature. I only know our experience. But at least for me, that was big. Because when you're struggling with your mental health, there are a lot of days that feel like a failure. But it's good to have that support to kind of fall back on while also having that motivation to keep going and kind of get through that fight.

Yeah, because with something like OCD, there are, like, at least for therapy, there were specific things that you were working on. So what I'm hearing you saying is it was important to come from this place of compassion and empathy, while at the same time supporting the work that needed to happen to get better. Is that kind of what you mean?

Yeah, like I said, for everyone, it's different. OCD is very specific. It's not this thing where you can tell someone that's depressed, like, hey, why don't you just try being happy and see how that goes? So for us specifically, it was very much the idea of, there's a time to be compassionate in a moment, always having compassion, but kind of picking your spots. So having an awareness of, like, this isn't the time for me to go into remedy mode. Hey, remember, here's the things that need to happen. But also knowing that there are definitely times when it was like, hey, the tools you've been taught, you know what you need to do. And you were so good at striking that balance. And so it was really helpful to not feel like someone was just bossing you around, like, get a grip. But also knowing there were things that I needed to do. There were things in my control in this situation, and to just help me, just to remind me, like, take control of the things you can take control of.

I know for me, I really appreciate how, I think you're very empathetic as well. So you don't heap on the guilt. I'm already feeling bad about myself, and you're really good about not, “Yeah, you really were awful today,” or whatever. You're just very loving. But then on top of that, you really step up and do things around the house or with the boys when I just can't. And I also really appreciated how when I was in the darkest depression and you still had to go to work, you have a job, and you would check in on me. You'd just send texts, or you'd be like, do I need to have your mom come over and watch you and hang out with the boys? You were just always checking in. I know that sounds kind of grim, but I really appreciated that a lot. And I've appreciated that you're always really easy to talk to, and I can trust you with the heaviest stuff. And this is kind of silly, but there was a time when I would be paranoid that you were cheating on me. There were no signs. It just literally corresponded with my cycle. Like, one week a month, I was convinced that you were cheating on me, and then the rest of the month, I was fine. But you handled it so well. You were just really kind and loving and had the capacity to just sit with me as I talked about how I was feeling or even when I would have panic attacks, just sitting with me. And I know that that can be really hard to witness, so I appreciate that about you a lot. What do you think helps our relationship during those times when either of us is struggling with our mental health? How do we stay connected when we're each dealing with, like, a flare up?

I just think we have gotten better at communicating with each other when we're really struggling. I think it helps to have some language. You kind of know what you're dealing with, and you have some sort of way to actually communicate it beyond just, I don't feel well or I don't know. I think we've just gotten better at communicating.

Yeah, you're good about saying, “oh, I'm having a hard OCD day,” or, and I know I'm pretty good at now saying, “this might just be in my head because it's that time of the month, but I feel like you're cheating on me.” Anyways, so, yeah, I think that communicating.

Yeah. And so I just think we've gotten better at maybe recognizing ourselves, what's going on, and kind of talking it out with each other. Not that we–it's not like we're having, like, a full on hour long conversation because there is a lot going on during the day, but I think we’ve just gotten better at talking things out with each other.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

One thing I've had to learn, and I think a lot of people have to learn this. This is a very vulnerable subject for people. And so I think when someone's willing to be vulnerable, you have to take that responsibility seriously. So I think what we've been good at is communicating our vulnerabilities. I think it's easy to sometimes go into solutions mode when somebody is coming to you with something and try to solve the problem right there and then. And I think as we've grown up more and we've been together longer and longer, it is easier to just sit in that moment, let somebody be vulnerable, and just show them the love that they need in that moment. And the time for solutions can come later. Sometimes the time for solutions maybe needs to be at that moment, but giving a moment of silence or just sitting there or just letting someone talk something out without interrupting them. Because sometimes it's as easy as, I just need to hear myself say this out loud. I need to talk a problem out. I'm really struggling. I'm really having a bad mental health day today. I need to kind of get my bearings. And part of that is I need to talk to you for a minute and get this thing off my chest, get this thing out of my mind, hear it out loud, and it will allow me to kind of get past it. But I think if you're not communicating it, it's hard for the other person to kind of gain the skill. Because I do think it is hard. Everyone is not naturally good at letting other people–people are very uncomfortable with vulnerable moments.

With emotions. I think it's really hard to sit with other people's sad emotions. We don't want people to be sad.

Yeah, everything can turn into a joke for me. My natural kind of response to a lot of things is like, what's the funny thing I can say out of this, to lighten the mood.

Which I appreciate sometimes.

And I think I've maybe gotten better. I don't know. Sometimes I think the joke–the calculus of whether the joke is worth it–can be off sometimes. Sometimes I think the joke is going to be worth it and I turn out to be wrong. I don't know. But I think at least that I have gotten better at knowing when the time for jokes are and when it's just like I'm just not going to say anything and sitting with, and sitting with the emotion. Because it can be hard, especially with a lot of these, with mental health, it can be very heavy when someone is willing to show you enough trust that they're willing to be that vulnerable. Sometimes the easiest thing is just not to say anything. And sometimes someone is coming to you for help, I need you to say something. And I think a lot of times that can be an obvious thing, but sometimes not. But I just think when someone is going to be vulnerable, just learning to like, it becomes a responsibility, to take it seriously and to just learn. It can be uncomfortable dealing with emotions, especially when they're very heavy. But I think for us, we've gotten better at communicating with each other. I talked about earlier, we have a better language to communicate a lot of these issues, maybe than we did before. So it is easier, and it's easier for us to recognize when I think there's, like, a mental health situation, but like I said, it becomes so ingrained and intertwined with life that it isn't always just simply, this is a mental health thing, and this is just the everyday stresses of life.

Yeah, they can go together, I think. Talking about the language of it, little things like, okay, now if I'm feeling that paranoia, instead of coming across accusatory, I can preface it with, “this might just be in my head because it's that time of the month” and he can just reassure and hold space for that until it passes. And it always does.

I think there's a lot of similarities between navigating mental health challenges and chronic health issues as a couple, and we've experienced both. You have your own chronic health issues, I have mine. And I know that it can be difficult for the spouse when someone's not doing well physically. This example is a little different because it was an acute situation, but when I was pregnant with our second, I had preterm labor complications and was basically on bed rest for half my pregnancy. And so that meant you had so much more on your plate. Because I couldn't do anything. Or then lately, as I've dealt with chronic pain, I feel like there's lots of times when I'm not doing well and you have to keep the house running while I'm trying to rest or doing different therapies. What's that like for you, having a spouse that has chronic health issues?

So going specifically to when you were pregnant with our second–well, first, when you were pregnant with our first child, you had had to go on bed rest, but that was like three weeks before you actually went into labor.

And we didn't have any other kids at the time.

Yeah. So this time was different because it was about halfway through your pregnancy. So the first thing was, we had a ton of help from the family that lived by us. So that helped a lot. They would take our oldest out of the house when I would be at work. So that's the first thing. We had a support system.

I think the other thing with all the extra stuff that has to get done is, like I said, a lot of life is just going over my head. So I don't think I ever thought of it as like, oh, look at all this extra stuff that I have to do. I think it's just a lot of stuff that has to get done. And so it's either going to get done or it's not going to get done. But if it's not done, I could either be like, well, I'm going to wait for someone else to do it, or I can be like, I really actually need to use some dishes to make dinner, so I should probably just do dishes, and that will make life easier.

Also, it's not like we have this chore wheel. Like, here's all the things I do. Here's all the things you do. Nobody can do anything on the other person's list. So I think that's just what being in a family, right? Recognizing something's going on.

Maybe you think differently, but I don't think either of us are looking at each other like, oh, Megan's supposed to be doing this thing. Like, oh, Megan's supposed to be doing laundry. Like, I noticed laundry is not being done. What's the deal? A lot of times it’s like, oh, I need laundry to be done, I’m just going to do laundry. Right?

And because we both have mental health, chronic health issues, there are just seasons and moments where–I don't even like using the term pick up the slack–because I just don't look at it that way. Like, picking up the slack. Like, you are pregnant with our second child and you're on bed rest. Like, what are you going to do? Life happens. And so I'm not consciously thinking. I think there's a survival mechanism of I probably should step up. There's a lot going on, but at the same time, there's a lot going on. Just means there's more to do. So just got to go do it.

And like I said in that specific instance, we had such a great support system that it was like there were a lot of day to day things that I still didn't have to think about. I wasn't like, hey, what are we going to do? Our oldest isn't old enough to be in school or anything. Like, you're on bed rest. We had people. Other people stepped up.

And so I just think, now you just get stuff done. We both work from home also, so it's not like, what the heck is going on all day? I guess I just don't think of it that way. Like, what are people doing all day? Only time, I think that is when I go to Costco at like ten thirty in the morning and the parking lot is completely full. It's like, does anyone have a job anymore? And yes, I get the irony that I too, am at Costco, but it's like, everyone can't be on their lunch break. I just got to be honest. Like, what is going on?

I think we're good at letting a lot go, too. So I just noticed yesterday our sliding door is completely covered in fingerprints all over. Disgusting. And it's probably been like that for months, and I literally haven't noticed.

Okay, but if you cleaned it, would anyone notice? Because in like three minutes it would look the way it did before you cleaned. So sometimes it's just got to be.

The other thing I was thinking about with navigating chronic health issues is I've tried a lot of different treatments and therapies and hippie things over the years, trying to get better. And I know that that can sometimes be a point of contention between couples, especially when it comes to (some of these are expensive) spending money or even just having a difference of opinion in how to approach treating illness. But you've always been really supportive, and I can't think of a time where we ever fought about anything. Even if you think what I'm doing is nuts, you're still pretty supportive about it. And even, like, you do all the grocery shopping and I completely trust you. You read all the labels. You know what I'm looking for. So I guess, why do you think we haven't fought about that stuff? I know it's like a common thing.

Well, I don't think I'm very contentious. I avoid conflict at all walks of life. That's probably part of it.

No, also, so with the health stuff, you are pretty meticulous about researching and just looking at different things. You grew up in a family where health and wellness was at the forefront of everything. So with your dad's background and whatnot. I didn't grow up in a family like that. It's not like that was like a huge topic of conversation. So for you, you do a ton of research, you're always talking it out, and maybe this is laziness, but I'm not doing any research. So a lot of times it's like, what am I going to say? You're talking about this thing. And I'm like, even if I was like, I really want to disagree, I have nothing. I have no facts to back up any of my disagreement. And I think if you were like, there's this really dangerous thing I want to do, that'd be different. But I can't think of anything that I'm like, oh, this was so dangerous or reckless. So I know the amount of thought and time you put into this with health and we talk things through, it's not like you're just like, hey, I'm going to do this. And it's like, okay, whatever.

Especially from a resource standpoint, of course, we're always navigating where to put our finances, what we're putting it towards. We talk that out.

So I just think there's a level of trust. You wouldn't be doing–you wouldn't want to be trying this or doing this if you didn't think is what you think would be best. So I don't have a lot of conviction about the subject to be like, I'm really passionate and I really disagree. And like I said, it's something you take seriously. So it's not like you're like, we need to just buy all this stuff. I don't know. So I think that, once again, we communicate about these things a lot. So I don't think it's ever really been, I mean, maybe it's been an issue. I can't think of a time where I've been like, I just completely disagree, this is a point of contention. No. And we talk it out, especially if it's something that's like, oh, this is something that might take some resources to make happen. We come up with a plan.

We walk it out, and we have similar goals in life so we can get on the same page with things and we have similar values.

Thanks for tuning in for part one of our conversation. In the next episode, our conversation turns to parenting kids with autism and type one diabetes. From the grief and life changing impact of a diabetes diagnosis to navigating our kids PDA autistic burnout, processing an autism diagnosis, and maintaining a relationship while parenting children with high support needs.

We hope to have you join us next week for part two. You can subscribe or follow along so that you can easily catch the next episode. Until next time.

Thanks for joining us today, where dreams are nurtured, challenges are met with resilience, and every tiny step forward is a victory. Hit subscribe so you can easily find new episodes and join this community, because maybe this will be the cure.

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