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Episode #160: StreamElements $100M Raise, Gaming Picks & Shovels, Streaming & VOD Tools Future
Episode 1605th November 2021 • Business of Esports • Paul Dawalibi
00:00:00 00:47:16

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In this episode with special guest Doron Nir (Co-Founder of StreamElements), we discuss StreamElements raising $100 million in a recent investment round, the transformational effect of a SoftBank investment, the future of picks and shovels for streaming and VOD, how StreamElements compares to their competitors, StreamElements looking to hire, how StreamElements works with content creators, and so much more!

Transcripts

Paul Dawalibi:

The business of esports podcast is sponsored by esports Entertainment Group, a

Paul Dawalibi:

leading esports and online gambling company. For more information, go check them out at esports

Paul Dawalibi:

entertainment group.com.

Announcer:

Welcome to the business of esports podcast, the official podcast of esports. We

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explore the intersection of business and esports, one of the fastest growing industries in the world

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and the future of fun. Please welcome your host Paul esports. Profit Dawalibi. The business of

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esports podcast begins now.

Paul Dawalibi:

From the keyboard to the boardroom. This is the business of esports podcast. I am Paul

Paul Dawalibi:

Dawalibi. I'm joined today by my friend and co host Jimmy burrata, for those of you who are new

Paul Dawalibi:

to the podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of esports. What we do here is we cover the most

Paul Dawalibi:

pressing, gaming and esports topics and news of the week. But we look at all of it through a

Paul Dawalibi:

business and C suite lens, we dissect, we analyze the business implications of everything happening

Paul Dawalibi:

in this industry. For our regular listeners. Thank you guys for tuning in every week. Thank you for

Paul Dawalibi:

all the love the support the five star ratings and reviews. If you haven't already, go leave a five

Paul Dawalibi:

star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Google Play or wherever you listen to our podcast. We

Paul Dawalibi:

really would appreciate it helps others to discover the show. Jimmy How you doing this week?

Jimmy Baratta:

Busy week, as always finally catching up from being out of the office where we

Jimmy Baratta:

were at EBS you know about a week and a half ago and in Austin and finally goes like I have my

Jimmy Baratta:

first real weak real you know, back in office kind of week under my belt so that's a good feeling to

Jimmy Baratta:

not be on the go for it. Should you

Paul Dawalibi:

you feel like you caught up now is this are you?

Jimmy Baratta:

Yeah, I mean, you know, you have a backlog of emails, backlogs of LinkedIn messages,

Jimmy Baratta:

you have 100 things on my on the to do list. And I'm finally in that space where you know, the

Jimmy Baratta:

machine is running and there's nothing kind of lagging. So I like that

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, it's been interesting. I've been getting this week, lots of people. It's

Paul Dawalibi:

always a fun week when and you know, we're gonna get to this news, I'm sure on the on the live

Paul Dawalibi:

stream later. But for those of you who just a shameless plug here, we do a live stream every

Paul Dawalibi:

Wednesday evening. 8:30pm Eastern Time, where we cover a lot of the news that doesn't make it into

Paul Dawalibi:

the podcast, which these days is pretty much all the news because we have such amazing guests. And

Paul Dawalibi:

I've never had so many messages, I think in one week going, Oh my God, you're right about Bobby

Paul Dawalibi:

and Activision Blizzard. It's such a disaster. So I don't know, there's, I think there's gonna be a

Paul Dawalibi:

lot of Activision Blizzard talk later, which should be fun. But I am gonna pat myself on the

Paul Dawalibi:

back, Jimmy, I'm just getting ready for it.

Jimmy Baratta:

I'm definitely gonna save my two cents for the live show on that one. But I know

Jimmy Baratta:

our fans are excited to hear it.

Paul Dawalibi:

We do have an absolutely absolutely amazing guests on the podcast today. I am a user

Paul Dawalibi:

of their product, which is always cool. I also think it's one of those products and one of those

Paul Dawalibi:

companies that has transformed the streaming and gaming landscape in a really big way. We have none

Paul Dawalibi:

other than door near on the podcast today, who is the co founder of stream elements. Darren, welcome

Paul Dawalibi:

to the business of esports podcast.

Unknown:

Hello. That was that was the most enthusiastic introduction I ever got in my life. I

Unknown:

thank you so much for that. And Jeremy,

Paul Dawalibi:

I Well, I am a big fan. I love what you guys do, I think, you know, I'll, I will say

Paul Dawalibi:

that. I've been talking for years now about the most exciting part of the gaming and esports space

Paul Dawalibi:

being a lot of the picks and shovels a lot of the infrastructure. And I think you guys are such a

Paul Dawalibi:

core part of that. But Darren, for our, for our listeners who maybe don't know about you don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know about stream elements would love if you could give them a bit of your background, how you got

Paul Dawalibi:

into gaming, you know how you got to stream elements, what you're focused on there now, just a

Paul Dawalibi:

bit of the story.

Unknown:

Sure. So I actually started from stream moments and less important stream moments is a

Unknown:

platform for live and VOD content creators. We provide live creators with the full stack of tools

Unknown:

that they need to stream on Twitch, YouTube, Facebook, and trovo. These are the platforms we

Unknown:

have an integration with in terms of what that platform includes, essentially everything from a

Unknown:

mechanism to collect live donations from your audience and seeing those nice alerts pop up on

Unknown:

the screen, a chatbot integration that enables you both to control and moderate your chat, and also

Unknown:

empower the chat with loyalty points, redemption of perks, and various other interactions in many

Unknown:

games that the Creator can use with the audience. Everything that has to do with the broadcasting

Unknown:

software, we have our own plugin for OBS called OBS slides that essentially integrates our

Unknown:

capabilities into the vanilla plain OBS, which is an awesome software by the way, and a whole lot

Unknown:

more. The, the the reason we're doing that streamelements is absolutely free. If any of the

Unknown:

viewers or listeners want to download it, there's no monthly fee, there's no fee, nothing, just use

Unknown:

it. Enjoy. Give us your feedback, give us ideas on how to make it better. This is what we need. We

Unknown:

help creators make more money, whether it's through setting up their merchandising store,

Unknown:

getting brand sponsorships, etc. And then we share that revenue with the Creator. So we don't make

Unknown:

money unless creators make a lot more money. And that is really a core component of our strategy.

Unknown:

streamelements is now used by over a million monthly active content creators, over 60% of the

Unknown:

top creators on Twitch, Facebook Live and YouTube gaming or using stream elements for their day to

Unknown:

day stream. We recently announced $100 million funding round led by Softbank, PayPal and a lot of

Unknown:

other great investors. That's it about the company in a nutshell. And we're hiring we're hiring so

Unknown:

much if anybody of the people that listen to this want to want to work with us want to join us

Unknown:

whether it's in the Creator facing side of the company, or the product and engineering side of

Unknown:

the company or the brand facing side of the company, we are hiring for all positions. And

Unknown:

there are really awesome jobs both Junior and mega senior. So please go to our website streamelements

Unknown:

COMM slash jobs and and apply, we need gamers as far as myself. I am 48 years old. I'm currently

Unknown:

based in Austin, Texas. Before that I was in the Bay Area. Originally, I was born and raised in

Unknown:

Israel, Haifa, and Tel Aviv for those who know. I am a passionate nerd and gamer for over 20 years.

Unknown:

Back in 1999, I started what is still the biggest publication about video games in the Hebrew

Unknown:

language called V games. CLL. A lot of the executives and actually two of my co founders,

Unknown:

were one of the original writer writing team. On that website, I myself am also a content creator

Unknown:

podcaster What more can I tell you? I'm a gamer dude. I love the same things that you guys love.

Paul Dawalibi:

Well, darn, what are you playing? Let's start with the easiest softball question.

Unknown:

So I actually had a bit of time in the past couple of months. So I sort of closed a bit

Unknown:

of the backlog the mat massive backlog of games that I accumulated, because I don't know how it is

Unknown:

for you guys. But when when Christmas season comes, I must buy the best games of the year. I

Unknown:

can't not buy them, I know that I don't have the time to play them. I know that they're just going

Unknown:

to dry up on the shelf. But I can't help myself. It's been going like that for about four years. So

Unknown:

right now, I I finished a nice run of about 70 hours in No Man's Sky, which has been waiting

Unknown:

patiently for me to pick it up for almost four years now. And I really enjoyed it. Wonderful

Unknown:

work. Hello Games, you're doing a phenomenal job. The game is rich and exciting. And I'm a huge fan

Unknown:

of space exploration in video games. So that was one of my fun games before that. Mario Party with

Unknown:

the family. Me and my daughter had a whole competitive thing around overcooked part two. I'm

Unknown:

just starting ghosts of Tsushima. And apart from that I've been playing consistently over the past,

Unknown:

I don't know, five, seven years. Destiny EVE Online. I plot a whole bunch of shit on mobile I

Unknown:

will basically download and try everything that anybody will tell me is worth playing on mobile

Unknown:

because it's such a wonderfully interesting you know, experimental lab of gameplay mechanics.

Unknown:

SpiderMan, both the original in its PS five version and Miles Morales which is unbelievable. I

Unknown:

can go on for like an hour. Let's stop here. Okay.

Paul Dawalibi:

So let me let me ask you the maybe the most obvious business question to start with,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is, first of all, congrats on the 100 million. That is not a significant raise. How has

Paul Dawalibi:

that transformed your business? How was that? Like? Are you what? What is changing? I guess was

Paul Dawalibi:

streamelements? Post this this raise? Yeah.

Unknown:

Um, I think the simple answer is growth. streamelements was a company over the first two

Unknown:

years of the company, we barely generated any sort of revenue. Nor did we really know what what we're

Unknown:

going to make the our money from our our, our strongest hunch would was that this is going to

Unknown:

come from brand sponsorships. But we didn't know for sure. And we contemplated multiple business

Unknown:

models. And eventually, we decided that we're gonna, we're going to do a full stack of revenue

Unknown:

generation models for the creators, so direct donations, currently, you know, we do 10s of

Unknown:

millions of dollars in that going to creators, we don't take a cut from that at all. We are a zero

Unknown:

commission, tipping platform, merchandising and E commerce, we have several 10s of 1000s of stores

Unknown:

that are running on our platform. And we essentially facilitate the entire operation. All

Unknown:

the creator needs to do is upload the graphics and collect the money. And we share some revenue on

Unknown:

that. And brand sponsorships, which is really where I think is the biggest opportunity for

Unknown:

gaming media today. Does that answer your question?

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, let me let me push a little bit though, because I'm curious, like, yes. Do you

Paul Dawalibi:

become sort of a victim of your own success? And then let me let me describe what I have in mind

Paul Dawalibi:

here, right? Like, I would argue you guys, and maybe one other? And I'm going to ask about them

Paul Dawalibi:

in a few here. But maybe in labs,

Unknown:

that's yes. Competitors, your competitor, right deserve? Absolutely.

Paul Dawalibi:

You in stream labs, like stream elements and stream labs to me built this entire

Paul Dawalibi:

piece of that of the industry, right, you guys are the the two elephants in the room. And, and in

Paul Dawalibi:

some ways, in a lot of ways. It's been transformative, right? You look at any streamer on

Paul Dawalibi:

Twitch, pretty much they either use one or the other. And most streams today look pretty good. As

Paul Dawalibi:

a consequence, right? Everyone has alerts, everyone has an overlay. Everyone takes donations,

Paul Dawalibi:

lots of streamers now do merge through your platforms, right? Like, the reality is, the

Paul Dawalibi:

quality of streamers has got has gone higher. Right? So where you now have a million people who

Paul Dawalibi:

look like really professional streamers, even if they only have 10 or 15 concurrent viewers? Yes.

Paul Dawalibi:

When I say buy, do you become a victim of your own success is that, like, at some point, when every

Paul Dawalibi:

stream looks so professional? Do you know am I likely to buy everyone's merch at that point like?

Paul Dawalibi:

Well, at some point, do you know what I mean? Where it used to be? There were five or 10 streams

Paul Dawalibi:

that were really good high production value, I would buy their their merch I would donate to

Paul Dawalibi:

them. When everyone is at the same quality level, is this good or bad for your business? Because my

Paul Dawalibi:

sense

Unknown:

is it's amazing for our business. It's amazing really isn't?

Paul Dawalibi:

Is it not the case that the top 20% Maybe drive 80% of the revenue for you guys?

Unknown:

It does. And I will tell you that it's a lot less than 20%. Okay, there are over a million

Unknown:

monthly active creators on stream elements. And as I'm sure you guys know, from the recent leak on

Unknown:

Twitch, probably less than 20,000 of the creators on Twitch, make a living from streaming. And on

Unknown:

Twitch, you have probably I don't know two to 3 million monthly active creators. So the percentage

Unknown:

of creators that are actually making a decent amount of money on the platform, whether it's us

Unknown:

or twitch or Facebook or YouTube is very, very small. But this is the nature of entertainment

Unknown:

driven businesses. This is the nature of media. I think from our perspective, what you said about

Unknown:

all streams, enjoying the higher production value all streams enjoying a higher level of audience

Unknown:

engagement is is absolutely a good sign that this entire industry in this entire medium is maturing

Unknown:

slowly but surely, to become one of the biggest things that that viewers spend time on in the

Unknown:

world. And I think from that perspective, you know, for me as a nerd and a gamer who was often

Unknown:

mocked at because of my nerdiness and gamer culture. The fact that gaming culture and gaming

Unknown:

and streaming and VOD creation around gaming is becoming such a massive pool of time spent by

Unknown:

audiences is just the best thing ever. This is like, you know, I can, I can again imagine, you

Unknown:

know, maybe people in the 60s that loved rock music and slowly it became the number one category

Unknown:

of music played on the radio. That's that is what they felt they felt that they're sort of like a

Unknown:

secret club is now becoming mass media. And we are just seeing the beginning of that, mind you. This

Unknown:

is only the beginning of what will eventually be the biggest cultural and media category in the

Unknown:

world. I don't know if you remember but a couple of years ago, Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix,

Unknown:

right about when Disney launched their streaming service. He said in a press press conference that

Unknown:

he's not concerned about Disney but he is concerned about fortnight and, and that guy knew

Unknown:

what he was talking about because Disney people who sign up with Disney and and use Disney plus,

Unknown:

don't stop paying for their Netflix subscription. But my 12 year old kid who is spending his entire

Unknown:

free time in front of two monitors, one of them discord, one of them, whatever he's playing at

Unknown:

that moment, whether it's Rocket League, or fortnight or Minecraft, or Roblox he doesn't give

Unknown:

a shit about Netflix, he doesn't watch Netflix, he doesn't know that anything exists on Netflix.

Unknown:

Until it co it appears as a Roblox game, which happened to squid game. And that's how my son

Unknown:

heard about squid game. Yeah, think about the meaning of this, when you accelerate things, 10

Unknown:

years into the future, my son is now 22 years old, he's just entering the work market. He's not

Unknown:

consuming any of the existing mass media. Think of what this is going to do to the dollars, whether

Unknown:

in terms of investments, whether it's brand dollars that are going to be channeled into gaming

Unknown:

media in the next decade. That's a phenomenal thing.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's massive. You're right. And I and I think where I'm with you completely Darren

Paul Dawalibi:

is I tell people all the time, I don't even think we've hit this massive inflection point yet,

Paul Dawalibi:

right. People think that we've hit it, but I think we're still considerably earlier than that. I

Paul Dawalibi:

guess from a business model standpoint, though, do you guys then basically say, we're okay with not

Paul Dawalibi:

making money on 90% of the creators who use our platform? No, or 99. Because we know the 1% is a

Paul Dawalibi:

pool that's going to grow massively Is that is that sort of the bet.

Unknown:

First of all, the 1%. Of deals with that top 1% can totally pay for the digital services

Unknown:

that we're providing free for the other 99% Simply because those digital services are not very

Unknown:

expensive. And the second thing is, you know, the 99% are not just there to waste our time and

Unknown:

resources. They are the stars of next year, and two years from now. And three years from now, in

Unknown:

the top 10,000 creators on Twitch 30% are switching every year. Okay, there's a there's a

Unknown:

huge turnover of 30% or more every year in the top 10,000 creators on Twitch, people start streaming

Unknown:

become stars, then they, you know, lose a little bit of their their shine. And at some point, they

Unknown:

say okay, I just I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go to college and they leave and they go

Unknown:

do something else. Very, very few sustain careers like Tim the tap man or shroud or Ninja that have

Unknown:

been doing this for a decade and are really holding at the top in a really admirable way. And

Unknown:

because of that catering to the long tail, catering to the new comers is one of our missions,

Unknown:

it's part of why we exist.

Paul Dawalibi:

Is Is there like is there part of that strategy then that says, or part of your

Paul Dawalibi:

mission that says how can we increase the number of creators who can make a decent living doing

Paul Dawalibi:

this? Like is that is that part of the mission?

Unknown:

Yes. And it's really about two things. First of all, it's about expansion and mediums

Unknown:

like that happens through globalization. I don't know if you know that. But in the history of

Unknown:

YouTube, YouTube exploded in the US first. And you suddenly started hearing about people that open a

Unknown:

YouTube channel and became millionaires. Okay, now by now it's billionaires. But back then it was

Unknown:

millionaires. And that was like a gold rush, everybody wanted to open a YouTube channel. And

Unknown:

what you got is you have that pyramid of the top talent in the US. Similar pyramid started to

Unknown:

appear in Germany and friends in the UK, just like any content market, it starts in one place, and

Unknown:

then it becomes global. And eventually, the global becomes so much bigger than the US right now on

Unknown:

YouTube. I think less than 20% of viewership is coming from the US 80% comes from everything else.

Unknown:

So the majority of revenue that YouTube is making right now is probably not from American audiences,

Unknown:

we are just in the tip of what is going to become such a massive revolution of media, that catering

Unknown:

to that longtail and seeing them grow over time, year over year, unlocking new markets, for them,

Unknown:

whether it's through Merchandising, and being able to sell stuff in various other places in the

Unknown:

world, or, or working with brands locally. And making sure that in Germany, the German creators

Unknown:

are going to be the ones that enjoy those deals, etc. That is how businesses expand.

Jimmy Baratta:

Up in and expand on that. You know, I'm curious, when you're attracting then new

Jimmy Baratta:

streaming talent for your platform, you know, how is it purely organic? Or how much do you rely on

Jimmy Baratta:

people within your company that identify up and coming talent to regardless of the region? So you

Jimmy Baratta:

know, this is someone that really we want on our platform and, and to partner with you, how do you

Jimmy Baratta:

go about I suppose, attracting and acquiring, you know, various levels of creator, whether it's that

Jimmy Baratta:

top Tim, the tap man caliber, or you know, someone with a moderate following, but like you said can't

Jimmy Baratta:

make a living but still has a great following.

Unknown:

So we are fortunate enough to have enough really nice people and even nicer creators, say

Unknown:

really, really good things about us when they're live. And we have literally hours of authentic

Unknown:

testimonials by creators just praising our product and our service and saying nice things about us.

Unknown:

And that drove the majority of our growth over the past five years. We will engage with top talent,

Unknown:

you know, to help them onboard our platform, because top talent usually doesn't do that work

Unknown:

for themselves. They have a team, whether it's channel moderators, or graphic designers, and we

Unknown:

will work with those, uh, you know, talent to onboard our platform. But by now, such a huge

Unknown:

majority of everybody who's live streaming is using stream elements that it's really just about

Unknown:

how we make more business rather than how we onboard time talent. When it comes to VOD, I don't

Unknown:

know if you guys know, but we launched a better toolset for VOD content creators to increase

Unknown:

audience engagement on on VOD clips. It's called mercury, you can find it on

Unknown:

mercury.streamelements.com. And it essentially tries to bring to VOD creators the same kind of

Unknown:

value that we have been bringing live creators over the past five years, which is real time

Unknown:

audience engagement, even though the content is pre recorded and does not change. So we do this by

Unknown:

by gaining access and updating in real time, the description of the video. So if for example, you

Unknown:

guys want to run a charity drives, and you want to reach $1,000, in charity, or $10,000, we have the

Unknown:

capability of updating a progress bar in your video description in real time, so that the

Unknown:

audience can see and donate more towards that essentially turning every video into almost a

Unknown:

Kickstarter page. I'm not going to go too deep into that. But our next avenue for growth is

Unknown:

really VOD content creators. We've already started working with some of the biggest talent in that

Unknown:

space. And you're going to hear a lot of exciting things from streamelements in the VOD space over

Unknown:

the next 12 months.

Paul Dawalibi:

You know, Darren, you you sort of you're one step ahead of me because one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

things I was going to ask was, you know, soft banks Mo is really, you know, putting lots of

Paul Dawalibi:

capital to sort of build some kind of very transformational vision right something that's

Paul Dawalibi:

Usually a lot bigger than the founders original vision, something that's much more global, which

Paul Dawalibi:

you mentioned. But, you know, my guess is streamelements Looks like a very different company

Paul Dawalibi:

two or three years from now is I don't know if you can tease some of that, like, what what is the big

Paul Dawalibi:

vision that Softbank bought into I'm curious if if that exists.

Unknown:

So the reason we started streamelements, more than five years ago is because of an

Unknown:

observation that we saw in the market. Five years ago, social platforms were fairly unique in its

Unknown:

feature set in their feature set. So Instagram was all about the photos. Facebook, was all about the

Unknown:

social graph, your friends, birthdays, you know, family photos, trips, whatever. LinkedIn was

Unknown:

professional, Twitter was all about microblogging. They all had their specific flavor. But because

Unknown:

how cheap it is to build to build software, because it's so easy to copy features from each

Unknown:

other. We identified a dynamic where all these platforms are going to start becoming very, very,

Unknown:

very similar. And over the past five years, you have seen that unfold. All the platforms offer

Unknown:

live video today, they all offer VOD, they all offer photos, they all offer blog posts, they all

Unknown:

offer audio content, they all offer short form. That's the latest craze. Last year, we had, we had

Unknown:

witnessed what happens when a company like I don't remember their name, the live audio company.

Paul Dawalibi:

clubhouse clubhouse,

Unknown:

thank you. clubhouse emerged into the market with a new feature set live audio, it took

Unknown:

less than three months. And this was available on Twitter. And and that was it clubhouse,

Paul Dawalibi:

we almost all forgot the name. So

Unknown:

when you have platforms that are becoming increasingly similar, the only thing that makes

Unknown:

them unique is content. And we knew that content creators in the creative economy is going to be

Unknown:

the next big thing that will drive engagement in social media. And we want it to be the company

Unknown:

that will be there for these creators no matter what platform they want to create content on, and

Unknown:

provide them with the full stack of tools that they need to reach the widest audience and engage

Unknown:

them in the most impactful way and make money with them. And I'm happy to say that this vision is

Unknown:

really becoming more and more of a reality. One thing that we have not seen, and this is really

Unknown:

going to be a game changer in the industry. I anticipated that at some point creators are going

Unknown:

to start streaming live on multiple platforms at once. And that still has not happened in a

Unknown:

meaningful way. Once that happens, once shroud is going to become a brand name that goes live every

Unknown:

day on YouTube, Facebook, Twitch trovo, and many may be another platform at the same time, then you

Unknown:

have reached the point where individual creators are overcoming the syndication problem. And they

Unknown:

are now becoming the Oprah Winfrey's of the next generation. And this is going to happen and

Unknown:

there's gonna be 1000s of those creators, not just in live, but in VOD. And all these creators are

Unknown:

gonna have podcasts and they're all going to have their own brands of fashion, and, and merch and

Unknown:

hardware. And it's going to be a future where the platforms, the distribution platforms are very

Unknown:

similar. And what matters are who are the creators who are the influencers that you follow?

Paul Dawalibi:

Interesting, this is a bit of a tangent it's definitely a rabbit hole but I want

Paul Dawalibi:

to go down Darren a little bit with you because I think you have particular insight here but I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

with you 100% On the Creator becoming the brand, the creator being the draw the content, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

content is king. This is not right. This is obviously I'm I'm with you on this. And I love

Paul Dawalibi:

where you guys are at right you you're in the middle of a gold rush and you're selling the picks

Paul Dawalibi:

and shovels.

Unknown:

We're giving them for free. Yeah, but we are we are sharing the gold find. So it's a it's a

Unknown:

better business model. And it's also you know, who doesn't want to get free picks and shovels.

Paul Dawalibi:

But but the we've seen and this is the pushback I get because I agree with you 100%

Paul Dawalibi:

We've seen creators move off of platforms, right? And, and it hasn't translated one to one right

Paul Dawalibi:

they've either lost a bit good chunk of their viewership or their revenue has gone down or

Paul Dawalibi:

whatever it is, why do you think that is like? Well, if the audio creators the draw, right?

Unknown:

So, so first of all, this is going to take time. Okay? And and you know, if you are a

Unknown:

person that is used to the content consumption experience on Facebook, then you're going to want

Unknown:

to consume Mr. Beast content on Facebook, we still have that pattern of behavior, where people, you

Unknown:

know, they're, they want to see Mr. Beast on Facebook, I don't know, if they're actually going

Unknown:

to go and watch him on YouTube or on on another platform. We're not there yet. And that is because

Unknown:

the platforms have not become completely identical yet. That said, I believe that that future is

Unknown:

coming. The reason I believe that future is coming is that in two other areas of entertainment, it

Unknown:

has already happened. The first one is gaming. Platforms are basically identical. If I gave you a

Unknown:

controller and your eyes were closed, you would, you know, you would have a hard time to

Unknown:

distinguish fortnight on Xbox, PlayStation, or Nintendo Switch, assuming the controller is

Unknown:

similar. Because the graphics are becoming so advanced, the chips are, you know, similar in all

Unknown:

the platforms, there are my new differences. And because of that, you know, I love the PS five, and

Unknown:

I love the Xbox, and I would buy both of them. But I'm a nerd. So that's just me, most people will

Unknown:

buy one, and they have all the games available there. And then the war becomes over content. The

Unknown:

second area where this happened, is streaming. streaming services have advanced so much over the

Unknown:

past decade, that in terms of user experience, it is very hard to distinguish between HBO, Max,

Unknown:

Disney plus, and Netflix, they all have the gallery, they all have the image, they all have

Unknown:

the video previews, they all show us this the same thing. I actually think that if we're talking

Unknown:

about streaming services, Amazon Prime gave a massive leap in the past year, thanks to the

Unknown:

integration of IMDb data into their streaming platform, which is something nobody has, and it

Unknown:

makes me want to watch more things on Amazon Prime, but that gap is also going to close. And

Unknown:

because of that, I believe that social media is going in that direction. And when it does, then

Unknown:

you will not care about the platform, you will care about the content and the content creator.

Paul Dawalibi:

Interesting. And so in your mind, what is that time frame in our space here and in

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of so

Unknown:

so I think that time frame really depends on the maturing of the audience, which is

Unknown:

biological. So we're talking about a decade. But think about it this way. Let's talk about short

Unknown:

form, which is the newest of the Social Media Video forms that we have seen. Do you think you

Unknown:

can make a distinction that is strong enough between the short form experience on Tik Tok and

Unknown:

on reels? Or are they identical to you?

Paul Dawalibi:

Identical?

Unknown:

Yeah, so you're there. Anybody who consumes reels cares about the content creator

Unknown:

more than they do about the platform or the experience? I don't know how many people even know

Unknown:

that they're consuming reels, they would consider that tick tock, it's just the tick tock of

Unknown:

Instagram. So we are going to completely agnostic.

Paul Dawalibi:

Let's talk about a little bit sorry to change gears here. But we mentioned stream labs

Paul Dawalibi:

earlier right being the the other competitor in the space. Yes. I'm curious to learn how you think

Paul Dawalibi:

about stream elements versus stream labs, right? Like how how you position the company or see your

Paul Dawalibi:

company differently versus them what you think you guys do better versus what you think they do

Paul Dawalibi:

better? Like, I'm just curious how you think about the competitive pressure in the space?

Unknown:

Yeah. Um, first of all, I am very, very respectful of competition, no matter where it's

Unknown:

coming from. And I have to say Ali movies who build screen labs. And he essentially took what

Unknown:

was known as Twitch Alerts, and rebranded it as stream labs and built their own obs and built

Unknown:

essentially a full stack of tools. Very similar to stream elements, but not free and and ours is

Unknown:

better. He is a phenomenal entrepreneur, and my hat's off to this entire team. We respect them

Unknown:

very much. That said, the biggest difference from my perspective is that our platform was built from

Unknown:

the ground up as a preacher integrated piece of software, while stream labs, essentially mesh

Unknown:

together multiple function functionalities that the company acquired. And because of that, we've

Unknown:

heard from creators that the editing and customizing experience in stream Labs is not a

Unknown:

superior streamelements. I wouldn't know for myself, to be honest. So this is just a word of

Unknown:

mouth kind of thing. The second thing is that they charge a price streamlabs is a think, either 10 or

Unknown:

$15 a month, service stream moments is absolutely free, every single feature across the board

Unknown:

forever. That's a big difference. If you're a newcomer, and you want to work with a platform

Unknown:

that is both more robust in terms of its customization capabilities, and free stream

Unknown:

elements is the choice.

Paul Dawalibi:

Or do you find yourself sort of keeping track of the big creators who are using

Paul Dawalibi:

their product versus the big ones who are using yours? Like, is there competition at that level at

Paul Dawalibi:

the Creator level? Where you're actively trying to get some of them to switch? Or?

Unknown:

Yes, I can share with you that we had an interesting moment, about a year and a half ago

Unknown:

after working with Tim the tap man for I don't know, probably several years and having a

Unknown:

wonderful relationship with him. He got sponsored by stream Labs, which is something that we don't

Unknown:

do, we don't pay creators. But he got sponsored by stream labs, and then move to that platform. And

Unknown:

that was a dark day in our company. We were so sad to see him go. But dude, this is business. This is

Unknown:

not war. This is not life or death situations. We wished him well, we gave him all the help that he

Unknown:

needed to trance, transit their platform. And we will be here for any creator that wants to work

Unknown:

with us. When they choose to work with us. That's that's simply how we roll during does the 100

Paul Dawalibi:

million dollar financing change that math for you, though, we're now you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

you've got a big pool of capital that you could go and sponsor every big streamer or the top 20 big

Paul Dawalibi:

streamers are?

Unknown:

No no, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. Interest. We are not using funds to buy creators

Unknown:

to use our platform. Our platform needs to stand on its own. Right, it needs to be chosen by

Unknown:

creators rather than paid for. And I can tell you that these funds are going to go to number one,

Unknown:

more robust product, better services, deeper and more custom customizable audience engagement

Unknown:

mechanism and our expansion to VOD creators where we see a lot of potential. I need to remind you

Unknown:

and all the audiences VOD content in the gaming category is still seven times bigger than all of

Unknown:

lives put together. Yeah. So in terms of potential of audiences, and hours watched and everything

Unknown:

that we measure our success by VOD must be the future. And that's where this expansion is gonna

Unknown:

go to.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's interesting because sorry, Jimmy, go ahead.

Jimmy Baratta:

No, I'm assuming also that that same mentality Dorn between or the that you just

Jimmy Baratta:

gave regarding your organic growth and and how you attract top content creators. I imagine that's the

Jimmy Baratta:

same for all facets of your company growing your incredibly impressive Discord server quarter

Jimmy Baratta:

million users and their your Twitter account, your 1.1 million users at least that was the last

Jimmy Baratta:

number I saw if you have an update for us, but just pure organic kind of brute force play?

Unknown:

Yes. I don't I don't, I don't we are fortunate enough to have our customers that are

Unknown:

actually influencers. And that's one of the most amazing things in the Creator economy. The entire

Unknown:

creator economy is based on people who are content creators. And because of that they are constantly

Unknown:

sending out great pieces of content into the ether into the digital sphere. And if you can be on

Unknown:

their good side, and it has to be authentic, it can't be paid. It has to be authentic. You know,

Unknown:

I've been listening to podcasts for over a decade now. And I've heard all the sponsorships all the

Unknown:

spots by by Joe Rogan by Mark Marin by you know the ones that are inserted and the ones that are

Unknown:

authentic. The ones that are read by the podcasts are the ones that are pre recorded by somebody

Unknown:

else. You feel it in your gut when the creator is past passionately recommending a product. And

Unknown:

because of that our best criteria for success is when a creator says something nice about us. And

Unknown:

when they do, it's authentic. And when it's authentic, it brings in the audience. I think, in

Unknown:

the world today, audiences are better equipped and most sensitive in history, to the difference

Unknown:

between bullshit and real. It's even in the intonation of the voice, when you hear a creator

Unknown:

doing a sponsorship for a product that they got paid for, but not necessarily fans of, you hear

Unknown:

that? You hear that? Because they sound like they're almost compelled to do it. They do it

Unknown:

passionately, because we are all professionals. But you know, it's not authentic. It's pre

Unknown:

scripted, they're reading from a page, they're doing it wonderfully, but they're reading from a

Unknown:

page, when you get authentic recommendations, you go and check it out.

Jimmy Baratta:

So this is a conversation we've had a lot recently and I'm curious store and you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

having these people that truly believe in your product, how important is it to you to also have

Jimmy Baratta:

those individuals and this to Paul's point and kind of reading his mind here. Individuals that

Jimmy Baratta:

are really can speak as an authority, you had mentioned how robust your platform is, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

that the difference between you and your competitors. You know, fundamentally by design,

Jimmy Baratta:

I'm curious, the the creators that use your product, not just being authentic, that it's true

Jimmy Baratta:

to them that you know, that they love it, that they love using it, but also ones that actually

Jimmy Baratta:

have that technical knowledge that can appreciate those nuanced differences between your

Jimmy Baratta:

competitors. How important is that to you guys,

Unknown:

that that is important. But that is why we we cultivate our amazing creator community, and

Unknown:

our Creator success team, which is an entire team of streamelements employees that just work day and

Unknown:

night on making sure that everybody who wants to use us will get to enjoy the full extent of the

Unknown:

platform. I think that no company today can afford to grow without a supportive community. Especially

Unknown:

not in gaming, especially not in in the content creation around gaming, which is like the most

Unknown:

hardcore part of gaming. Every game company needs to have a community, every streaming platform

Unknown:

needs to have a strong community. We are very proud of the individuals, whether paid or

Unknown:

volunteer volunteering, that contribute to that community every single day and helping all

Unknown:

creators whether small or very large to onboard our tools and enjoy the most of them. But we are

Unknown:

investing heavily in cultivating that community. So that it will be there for all the creators that

Unknown:

come next.

Paul Dawalibi:

Darren our listeners know they call me the prophet of esports I will always speak the

Paul Dawalibi:

truth paid or not. They're always gonna get the the direct truth. And my truth here is I love what

Paul Dawalibi:

you guys are doing. Congratulations. So massively thank you so much success. I mean, it's again,

Paul Dawalibi:

it's there's half a dozen companies in the gaming industry right now that are killing it that are

Paul Dawalibi:

that are, you know, really set of setting the path for everybody else. And I put you guys in that

Paul Dawalibi:

group. So major, major accomplishment and major congrats to you Dorn and what you've built. Truly

Paul Dawalibi:

amazing. I will say, if people want to find you, because that wraps up this week's podcast, guys,

Paul Dawalibi:

if people want to find you, or follow you, or find stream elements like what what can they what

Paul Dawalibi:

should they go follow? Or what should they go? First

Unknown:

of all, don't follow me. That'll make it weird. Just come and say hello. Second thing, I

Unknown:

have a Twitter account, I'm not that active on it. But I respond. And I definitely read a lot of

Unknown:

content on Twitter, my email, drone, do aro and@streamelements.com I have a profile on

Unknown:

LinkedIn, I have a profile on Facebook, I'm pretty available guy. So if anybody wants to reach out,

Unknown:

please do. I don't promise I'm going to respond immediately. But, but I will do my best to respond

Unknown:

to everyone.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I will say this guys, because I know I probably get two to 10 requests a week from

Paul Dawalibi:

people on LinkedIn asking me you know, they're looking for work in the gaming and esports space.

Paul Dawalibi:

And so definitely reach out to stream elements if you guys for our listeners who are looking.

Paul Dawalibi:

Because all

Unknown:

if this is about a job and I'm telling you right now we have literally dozens of open

Unknown:

positions in the company. Don't don't reach out to me. It's only going to slow you down. Just go to

Unknown:

streamelements.com/jobs Go to our careers page apply for the positions. Even if you don't have

Unknown:

experience in specific areas, write about your passion right in the cover letter that if you're a

Unknown:

passionate gamer, if you want to go into this industry, what have you done so far? Which

Unknown:

communities that you helped build? Which computers did you schlep for an esports event, whatever

Unknown:

just, you know, share with us your passion. We are really, I can tell you right now, our company has

Unknown:

10s of employees that did not finish college, did not work in any glorious company. Before that they

Unknown:

are passionate about this space. This is the first job that they're doing in gaming. And we are happy

Unknown:

to have them because they are killing it. Because passion wins everything. If you're passionate,

Unknown:

you're going to learn, you're going to work hard, and you're going to do well. So send those people

Unknown:

to our careers page. And we would love to consider them for one of our positions.

Paul Dawalibi:

I encourage our listeners to go and apply. And I know I will direct the people who

Paul Dawalibi:

reach out to me directly to go do that as well. So really appreciate you guys supporting the

Paul Dawalibi:

community like that and hiring people who who maybe come out with no experience also that I

Paul Dawalibi:

think is massively beneficial to the industry as a whole. Darren, thank you so much for being on the

Paul Dawalibi:

show. Jimmy thank you as always, for our listeners, just a few reminders, guys, make sure

Paul Dawalibi:

to follow us everywhere. On LinkedIn on YouTube on tick tock on Twitter, on Instagram, they're all

Paul Dawalibi:

the same as we talked about, just follow business of esports. Everywhere

Unknown:

same, but relatively similar, relatively similar.

Paul Dawalibi:

And also quick reminder, every Wednesday evening. 8:30pm Eastern time we do a

Paul Dawalibi:

live stream we cover all the news from the past week. It's a bigger cast. We do it live with you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, the fans, you get to ask questions you get together, get to get in our faces. It's a lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

fun. I highly recommend it Wednesday evening. 8:30pm. Eastern Time. Darren, Jimmy, thank you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys so much. That wraps up this week's podcast. And we will see you guys next week.

Unknown:

Bye bye.

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