Shownotes
Burnout doesn’t always mean you’re doing too much—it can mean you’ve drifted away from the part of you that remembers why you’re here.
In this episode, Jill Hart (The Coach’s Alchemist) sits down with Rabbi Alon C. Ferency—rabbi, artist, coach, and creativity consultant—about the quiet spiritual root of creative blocks, imposter syndrome, and that “I feel fake” feeling so many gifted, heart-led people carry.
You’ll hear why the world needs more conversation and fewer debates, how moral imagination helps us stay human with each other, and why creativity often works best through a sidestep—a detour, a walk, a playful practice that lowers the stakes and brings you back to meaning.
In this conversation, we explore:
- Why rigidity drains life (and how curiosity restores it)
- What “moral imagination” actually means in real life
- The power of art to communicate what logic can’t
- How detours and “beginner mind” unblock your next chapter
- A simple practice you can start today to reconnect to yourself
Free resource from Rabbi Alon:
Grab his Creativity Check-In Guide at eclecticcleric.com
Find him on Substack: eclecticcleric.substack.com
Want premium clients from your content?
Grab a free Client Acquisition Audit and I’ll show you exactly where your message, offer, and CTA are leaking conversions—and the 3 fixes to turn your podcast/Substack into a client pipeline.
👉 Book here: https://coachsalchemist.com
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcripts
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Burnout doesn't usually mean you're doing too much. It often means you've drifted away from the part of you that knows why you're here. In this conversation, we explore why so many gifted, heart-led people feel blocked, fake, or spiritually disconnected, even when they're doing everything right.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: By the end, you'll see what's actually been missing, and how creativity quietly holds the key back to meaning.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life health transformational coaches, and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm your host, Jill Hart, The Coach's Alchemist, on a mission to empower coaches and entrepreneurs to amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible. If you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Head over to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down. Today, we are chatting with Rabbi Alon Ferenc?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Did I get that right?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You got it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, good, okay.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Putting a host ill at ease right away.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm terrible with names. I'm the first one to admit it.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That's a very quirky name, so I understand.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love it, though. It's… it's unique. It's eclectic.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's very cryptic.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Alon is a rabbi, artist, coach, and creativity consultant who draws on years of
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Congregational leadership to guide artists, seekers, and social entrepreneurs in aligning their work with their deepest values. His coaching and teaching weave together mindfulness, moral imagination, and deliberate creative practice.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Helping clients use creativity as a path to meaning, resilience, and purposeful impact. Welcome to the show, Elon. It's great to have you with us.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Great to be here, thanks for inviting me.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Alright, now for the big question, are you ready?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I am.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals, we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, the world is going poorly, and I think a lot of it is the rigidity that we're bringing to the world, and the
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's funny, I was… I was thinking about this, because I knew you'd ask me.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And I want to change my answer. I was going to say something along the lines of moral imagination, and this is part of that, but I want to say not being so sure you're right.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You know, not being certain.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think… people…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Are not open enough to the possibility that they might be wrong, and that their opponent might be right.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And that when you disagree with someone on A, you know, you can like the Rolling Stones, I can like the Who.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Obviously, I'm the one who's correct. But that doesn't mean… that doesn't mean we won't agree on other things.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So I.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's fun to explore why you feel the way you do.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Without having to die on that hill and drag everybody up it with you.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Or to… or to have more conversations and fewer debates.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes! Yes! Yes! We've lost the art of conversation.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That is probably true. And that's more broad, I mean, they… there's a lot of study now about young men not knowing how to date because they've lost the ability to converse and flirt.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But that's a different topic for a different day, because I used to be quite afloat.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's important! It is. It's really important!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The continuation of our species depends on it!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, also, I found… I was not great at dating, but I could always introduce myself to someone, because I find people interesting.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And I would see, you know, a book they were holding, or a t-shirt they were wearing, or something about their affect, and comment on it, because they interested me.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: you know, it was nice if the person was cute, also. That's obviously a hormonal 24-year-old, but…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But I think it's important to be able to be interested in people.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And to understand that someone has something to contribute that may be beyond your scope.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I guess that always…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It can be different, and different is sometimes good.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because it gives you an opportunity to learn something new.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to try something on. You don't have to, like, buy it, but, you know.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah. If you don't get the experiences.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What are you here for?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, you talk about moral imagination. Okay. I'd love to dive into that, because what do you mean by it?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, I have to admit, I am a little bit poncy and use words that I don't always understand, but they sound right.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I do know what moral imagination means, but I think I overuse it, or I'm careless. It probably has a more precise definition than I use.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think it's along the lines of being willing to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: along the lines… I mean, I think the Talmud, which is one of the sacred books of Judaism, is very good at this, to imagine what your opponent's response would be.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right? To imagine whichever side of the abortion debate you are on, for example, what the other side might say.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And how the other side might challenge you, or accept your opinion, or be won over. To imagine how someone might have arrived at their conclusions, and might have arrived at their principles.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And then, you know, that doesn't mean you can't ask.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right? And I think we as a society have gotten too offended too quickly so that we've afraid… made each other afraid to ask difficult questions.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But also, to be intellectually charitable, is the word, you know, to assume the best of your… I keep saying opponent, but…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Someone you are having a conversation with. You know, they don't have to be your opponent. They might politically disagree with you on A, B, or C, or artistically have a different viewpoint, or religiously be of a different stance, but I'm very curious to hear their scripture, their favorite book, their favorite music.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Sometimes they can be wrong, you know, like…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I really don't like REM. My kids will play it for me just because they know I don't like REM. But…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: They can be wrong, they're still young.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think we go through phases in life.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And there… at my point in life, being… a crone.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I own it. You, you look back and realize that
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I was so sure about that, but I was so wrong.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Pat Nozzle does a great bit about that, how he would convince you that you were stupid for liking a certain band, and now he just… as he ages, he's, you know, I like this band, I don't like this band, I used to like this band, but it's not… I'm not gonna hate you over it, and I'm not gonna try to prove you wrong, right? Some things are personal preference, and…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Some things are… Not worth fighting over. Most… so many things are not worth fighting over.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: so many things aren't worth fighting over, and I think it's… we've forgotten with the internet that people are human beings first.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they have a story, we all have a story, and we all impact each other. And, you know, you brought up the abortion thing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Abortion is very personal.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And women tend to be…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Have a different view of it than men.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sometimes, as a couple, they have a different view.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it all comes back to… and I don't think there's any right or wrong answer.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I used to have a very rigid stance on it, and…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have personal experience with it, and I've…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have kids who have kids, and
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's a different medical component that came into it, and I'm just like, you know, it's a personal
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's very personal.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: They're…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Should we have a societal stance on it?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't know.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I really don't know.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: There was a line recently in The Economist, one of my favorite newspapers, that.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: They're describing Democrats, but it applies to too many Americans of all parties and stripes.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People tend to make…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Policy issues into moral issues, way ahead of.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then they stand on it, and as society is, like.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: They become absolutes, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I was reading something about, the interracial marriage.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: laws that used to exist in the U.S, and that… Fairly recently, with.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Oh, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: My lifetime.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yes. Changed. Yes. Yes.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And the Civil Rights Act. That's… Within my lifetime.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think it was that long ago that women couldn't sign mortgages.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Women couldn't get credit!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That's the one, yeah, you couldn't get a credit card into the 70s, I think.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Like, 74, 75.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think a lot of people shouldn't have credit cards, though, that's, you know, maybe they just needed to apply it differently.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, most people don't know how to manage, but yes.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But… But women weren't allowed to be… Independent enough
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to support themselves. They went to college to find husbands, and that was not to get educated, to be able to work.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's like, you know, in the old days, when they used to teach women art and languages?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And how to needlepoint?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean, those… those were, like, skills that women were taught, not, like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How to run things, or how to do books, or… How to manage…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Manage money. Nobody's taught how to manage money these days.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That was my point about credit cards, I don't think anyone understands money.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or the difference between money and currency.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Hmm.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because they are not the same.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People get them all mixed up.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, back to you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't know what you're doing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What… What… what are you doing? How do you coach people? How does this all look?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What am I doing?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: having a good conversation right now. You know, it's funny, we were talking prior to going on air, that I'm working with a media company, and they really helped clarify my position, which is…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Most of what I ask artists and others to do, and this goes in line with moral imagination, is what someone called a sidestep, a detour. That you can… and I think we do this too often, even in the corporate world, where you think you can solve the spreadsheet by staring at the spreadsheet.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And sometimes you step outside for a coffee, sometimes you pet your cat.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Sometimes you look at another document, sometimes you read a novel, and that sidestep, that detour, that stepping aside can help you find the correct path.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, a lot of the people I'm working with, I think, at various points in their career, are or certainly feel that they may be at the end of the line.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Artistically. That they may have come to a crossroads or a place where they are right at the edge of the map. There's no road left, there's no map left.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: and they panic, and I think they think, you know, maybe it's time for me
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: to give up art, or maybe I can't take the next step to doing a massive installation at a university, or maybe that one great album I had 6 years ago was my peak.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And they don't know how to continue. And you see this in bands that had lifetime careers, Dylan and the Rolling Stones, even, where they were…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: there were times, and people have said, is rock and roll dead, or is jazz dead, right? There's always this sense that we might have reached the end of a fruitful experience, but…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: In my sense, that has never been true.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And for those of us like you and me, I think, I'm assuming, from things you've said and hinted at, that understand art to be profoundly spiritual.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: If we can understand what it is we're making and why.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: the road never ends. It might detour, it might require a sidestep, it might require… A pause, stepping back.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: an oblique motion?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: a quirk, but it's never over. So we could be an actor or a writer our whole lives, and the format might change, but…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And the road might change, and the car might change.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: The journey doesn't end.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So I tend to be people… you know, people… if you think of someone, like, lost in the woods, their car pull… they pull over the car, there's no more map left. Like, finding… getting them back on a new path.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. Both of my parents were artists. Well…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: still an artist, but I've watched their art move over the years.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… I… I've recently joined a community where we're practicing
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: drawing some of the master's art, and I seriously just got done sitting in my car while my dad's doing chemo, and
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I was… I was drawing a Cezanne, or not a Cezanne, a Picasso piece that she… she put up, like, 4 pieces that we're supposed to copy. I have 12 colored pencils!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's all I've got in my little notebook.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And what, like, what scale?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Take a small version? Any skill you want.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A little in… Okay. …in my notebook. And…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Scale is an important, important point.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But,
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: which I realized while I was trying to, like, sketch out the outline of where I was going, because you take something that appears as a square, and you try to make it a rectangle.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: all the dimensions are gonna be off, and you're… you're just gonna frustrate yourself. So, after trying a couple times to do the whole rectangle of the page, I realized, this is a square, so we're just gonna do it as a square, and then we're gonna be able to get the pieces where they need to be with my 12 colored pencils.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, needless to say, it does not look like anything like Picasso did, but…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I got… I got the things. I got all the pieces. And I love Picasso because his… he builds stuff in pieces. It's like…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Outlines that you can color in.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Council seems very open to translation.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right, especially, I mean, I know best Guernica, which is huge, so that's why I was curious about scale.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But because he was already playing around so much with perspective.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That you can also continue to play.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It seems like, you know, unlike, let's say, Michelangelo that was very figurative and very clear.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You have to get the abs just right, I suppose. Picasso…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Is abstract in a way that allows you in as a copier and to be more of a translator or an interpreter.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah, I like that.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it was so fun. And more… the… just the practice of art.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Whether you want it…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Whether you are an artist, and you're trying to expand, or you're just somebody who doodles on a page.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Taking a piece, a masterpiece, and… and really looking at it, because you can't copy something that you don't really study.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you see the shading.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That you miss when you just look at something.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: arbitrarily. And it just, like, allows your brain to focus.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: without allowing all the other 9 million things, it's always going through our head, and it's like…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Time just sorts of melts away and allows you to just, like, be in the moment.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So when you give something that level of focus, attention, attunement, which are all a kind of mindfulness practice, and then you are part of the creative process, what does it feel like? Do you…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: in terms of… and I'm… I know this is an odd question, because obviously we don't literally feel those things, but in terms of neurons and cortisol and neurotransmitters, what does it feel like is coursing through you, if you could… if you could name it?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To me, it's peace.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just super peaceful, and still, and quiet, because I don't listen to anything. I don't have any other input other than visual, and then…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what I'm doing with my hands.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's… There's a flow to it?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And an intensity to it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That it's… it is a meditation in and of itself, because you're not having to think too hard about
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The creative process, because you're just copying.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's… it's trying to get the details.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it's… It's different than creating an original piece of art.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, that's sort of… okay, that's a question, then.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Do you find making original work more energizing, or equally peace-inducing, peaceful-making?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: None of those are real words, but you know what I'm going.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know what you mean, and I think…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: call me.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: final pieces…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: are more like a release for me, because I'll have something in my head that… it's just, like, I have to put it somewhere.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And drawing can be,
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: if I'm doing something that's out of my head, I've been thinking about it for a while, and it's like, I can't have it taking up space in my head anymore, so we ought to put it somewhere on paper.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So that's a different experience.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Metabolize it is sometimes the word I'll use. You have to metabolize what's there.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's exactly it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, do you mostly work with coaches?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: No, I mostly work with artists.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sardis?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: artists. Well, so this is… this is interesting, as I'm also, I mentioned, working with
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: a marketing team, trying to identify the core cohort, which I think is culture shapers. So I… because I also work with pastors, ministers, rabbis.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I also lead a lot of meditations of
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I guess the demographic of that would be 50 to 70-something women.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I teach at arts programs, locally and elsewhere, and a lot of work in recovery.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, I think it's people who are engaged in the shaping and making of culture, but not necessarily graphically or where there's a particular outcome of a record or a painting.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But I want to ask you a little further.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Where… where in your life do you imagine you might be at the end of a road, and like, or a roadblock, or…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: an impasse. Is this happening to us all the time, or is it just occasional?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Is there always someplace in our life where there's a… there's a… Roadblock.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't know. I think… I suspect that probably there is And just… in everyday life.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're always… we're always moving on… On this journey, That's always happening now?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But in the now, we run into spaces where we're unsure of how the next step is going to…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What experience the next step is going to evolve into?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it can cause frustration for us, Or… Or I think we all… ex… experience…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Change differently when we run into those?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: those spaces… What do you think?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: What's… what's your… no, I'm actually… okay, I'm gonna… I'm gonna… yes, I will answer, and I also… but I want to ask you a follow-up. What is… it's interesting, I've never thought of that, that we all experience those sort of impasses or crossroads differently.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I always assume there's sort of a fear and panic and crisis mode, but…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Do you experience it with… I'm gonna guess, given some of the things you said, a little bit of curiosity and questioning?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's like, how can this…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't look at it as, like, a roadblock so much as it's… it's… it's a place where some… it's a fork in the road. Yeah. It could be lots of forks in the road, but something has… you have to pick.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A direction that you're going to move in now.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… and you have to make some decisions. I'm a really good decision maker.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So you don't get paralyzed by choice.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don't, but I know there are a lot of people that do. They want to analyze things, and like… like I said, we're all different, and it's not good or bad. Some people get caught in
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: analysis paralysis, but really they're just at a fork in the road. They just have to pick one direction, because you can't move forward unless you're moving.
235
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you can adapt and adjust, and maybe you're gonna find yourself back on the other path that you didn't choose a little bit further down the line. Very rarely do we backtrack.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In my experience.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think even if we do, it's useful.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Try again.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I used to… my deepest fear and my greatest trigger was the word failure.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That, that always…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Experience!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Well, now we just frame it as a setback.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: and challenge.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Like, and I think a setback can be fun, right? Oh, that didn't work, I'm gonna take 2 yards, step back.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: See what it looks like.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Maybe that's not the way over the hill or around the hill.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Maybe there's another way.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I come back to, do you know Mitch Hedberg?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: -
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, he's a very odd stand-up comedian from, like, the early 2000s, I want to say. He has a bit that he, when he plays music loud, his neighbors get angry and bang on the wall between their apartments.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And in order to troll them, he says, there's no door there! Go around! I can't open the wall for you!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So I think of that as a great symptom or metaphor of what I do, which is, you know, you're looking at a wall, not a door, so go around.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's a different… there's a different way to get to where you're going, and it's okay, you haven't failed, you just haven't gotten there yet.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And I, yeah, more and more I like setbacks, or I like these challenges, or these quirks of fate.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And life is so short that if we didn't have challenges and opportunities to grow.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What are we doing?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You know, what are we doing with this precious time if we're not pushing ourselves a little? I don't mean, like, running ragged, but…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If everything went right, How much fun would that really be?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I… I might accept, I don't know.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: No, that sounds good. Nice. Do I have servants in this?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: How rich am I in this scenario of everything going right?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Do I have a chef?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But then you wouldn't experience the joy of cooking.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then you wouldn't experience the joy of cleaning. And these are things I love. Or gardening. Or…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Spending time with your boys, and just, like, embracing the moment.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because trust me, that moment is gonna vanish, and you're gonna be… You'll have different moments.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah, yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you'll have.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: No, my eldest just had his birthday, and I feel he's closer and closer to college. It's very…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then they'll become their own people. There's a song that Kat Stevens wrote, the Father and Son song.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. It makes me cry all the time. I'm sitting here with my dad, I've been here for a month, I'll be here for another couple months, and
275
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: he's… he… He longs for my kids and their kids to come and visit him.
276
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's like, they're starting their lives, they're super busy, and they've got kids, and you can't just, you know, pick up two-year-olds and hike across the country to come and sit in somebody's living room.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because they're two, and my dad has this house is like a museum. There's all this art. They kill themselves, or…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: What are you learning and caring for your dad?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Patience.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Lots of stories.
281
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm learning about him in a way that I…
282
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He's almost 90, and he's… he's lived a really interesting life.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and experienced a lot of things. He's one of those people that really did have an adventure in his life.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we lived in a lot of places, and to get his perspective of
285
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the experiences that I remember as a child.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: that he experienced as an adult. It's been really fascinating.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: healing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's… there's healing. There's… there's a lot of healing, and… and just…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And patience, and… and curiosity. You know, being able to be open, and yes, some of the stories are…
291
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: repetitive, but…
292
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's a reminder to me to not do this to my own children, and I do find that I do it.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I mean, we can screw up our kids in new ways, also. I definitely don't always screw up my kids in the ways my parents screwed me up, or screwed up with me, but I do it in plenty of other ways.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Go? Oh, yeah.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I find, being a parent has really… and I know this is very far afield for your listeners, but has really helped me
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: heal with my parents, and to see what it's like, and how hard it is, and how much they must have been trying, even though I was frustrated and disappointed in their actions at times.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So young!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yes, also.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I'm just a child.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I am so mad at my mom from when I was 6 years old.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And she was living in Naples, Italy, with 3 babies. I was the oldest, and I was 6. And she was maybe 25?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Done with 25!
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I'm 50, and I'm still a bad parent, so I don't know. Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm 65! I have.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I laughed.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: child when I was 44.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I had my first when I was 21 or 22.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I had a lot of time to, like, figure out new ways to screw them up.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're all different. They're all amazing human beings. I… I…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I look at them, and I'm just like.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: How… oh my cow, you guys are just such fantastic humans!
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whether you like me or not, and this week, and I do hope you let me play with the kids, because, you know.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: like them. But… Is this, like… It's… it's amazing.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I don't really feel like I did anything. I know I screwed them up, I mean, there's…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Don't get me wrong, there was Trump.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I'm sure you did. I mean, the amount of work that goes into being a decent parent is enormous.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: A good enough parent is a lot of work. I do a lot of driving just to be a good enough parent.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Get them to their activities in school, and events, and sports, and friends.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Just the driving alone and the cleaning up after them is a lot of work just to be a mediocre parent.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And just to… just to love them.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And two.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: encourage them to explore their own creativity, and not say, well, no, you can't do that, you have to do this. Just to leave the door open and say, what… what is it that sparks you, lights you up, starts that fire in you, and how can you…
324
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Push that into earning a living so that you can survive and raise your own families, but
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean, instead of saying everybody has to.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: No, I think it's… I think it's fascinating that you can have… you said you have 5 children?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have 5 children.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah, I have four, and they're also… I mean, there's things in common, but they're also… one likes robotics, one's starting trumpet, one plays lacrosse, there's no…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: There's no rhyme or reason, and yet they are all of a piece, in a way.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And it is… it's kind of wonderful to hear them talk about their passions and what they imagine their life to be, whether one of them thinks about becoming a veterinarian, and I have no idea if it will endure. He's 11 and he loves cats, I can tell you that for sure. But I don't know which of these dreams will endure, and…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I'm invested in them in certain ways, but not in certainty.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And it's exciting, in the same way I feel about the people I work with, that I get to see, where is this all going? To go back to that original comment, like, how would we make the world better? To be more interested and curious about the trajectory of people's lives, there's a…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's variously said by Plato or Philo, it's not clear that you should be kind to everyone because everyone is fighting a difficult battle.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And you just… you don't know what's going on on the inside, and how much…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: The struggle and the passion and the turmoil. And even if it comes out in art.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's very oblique, and you're still not touching the person, and I think, you know, for example, I think people think they know the actor through his work, but you don't.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's human-to-human connection.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We need conversations. We need…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We need each other. This… we've… we've had so much AI come in, and it's in the art world, too. I mean.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's not the same as that That human-to-human conversation, and Even with art, art… Art is beautiful.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But the story behind the Creator?
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's… That's what really shines.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean, you can look at a beautiful Picasso.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I might challenge that.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Because I think… I think what I love about art is that it can be separated from the creator.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And that the art can speak to you in a way that the Creator may never have intended.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And that it is…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's true, because we're all… we're all going to accept things into ourselves.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And that also art, whether it's Guernica or Dave Chappelle.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Can say things that you can't… you know, to go back to the metaphor of, we could use more conversations and fewer debates.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right? You can't rationally say things
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And have people experience the horror of war in the same way that Guernica teaches you.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right? You can detail as much… and I always used… I used to use the metaphor of Casablanca versus a World War II documentary.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You know, and Casablanca is true in the way a documentary isn't.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Because there is real heroism, there is real change in a person, there is the movement from being callow and shallow to being expansive and risk-taking.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: The fight for freedom.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: the sense of irony that keeps us detached from love, all those… all those elements in Casablanca that have nothing to do with
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: the fact or fiction of what happened in Casablanca in World War II.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think art has great power, and it… Transcends the artist, and that's…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: what I would wish to be part of, you know, a piece of something that endures beyond me, and…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: All the people who wrote and created and sang the parts of the Bible, their names are not recorded.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But… They left us something precious.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: even Homer and the Odyssey, I don't… it's not clear that Homer was really a person.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But however the Odyssey came into being is… the gift is the Odyssey.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think the world needs more of that. I think the world needs more of…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Less brute force talking and more metaphor, more paradox.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think art can give us a lot of that. Art can give us that moral imagination, that ability to sidestep direct confrontation, and to challenge you with something
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Oblique.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Something… insinuates itself.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Small thread.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That connects us.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have… yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I would just like to sit with that for a few minutes.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Sure.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's really profound.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, let's go back to your coaching, because I really want to talk about how you help these artists.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: We should start with, if I help these artists.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, well…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think I do, I think I do, but there's no… it's very hard to measure, you know? I feel that I'm witness to change, but I can't tell you that I… that caused the change.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's nice to be around.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You have added your energy, you add your energy, to these artists.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: In love.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: change.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… and do you work in, like, just one-on-one with people? And what kind of art.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: artists are we talking here? More expansively these days. So I did a program at one of the departments, one of the creative departments at the University of Tennessee, where I'm located. I've done things at churches and synagogues.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: the majority of the work is one-on-one, so it could be a sculptor, an actor, a playwright, a game designer, a DJ, a singer.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: pretty expansive understanding of what constitutes arts making. A lot of people in the, sort of, what you call spiritual entrepreneurship.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Huh?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: social entrepreneurship.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: People who are weaving the threads of culture.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think would be the broadest way to say it.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah. What was the further question, though?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think I… I don't think I finished answering your question, I think I got lost in my own…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: thoughts.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: what you did, because I asked you what kinds of artists you helped.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right, okay.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And how you help them one-on-one. And they can…
401
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Find out about that at eclecticcleric.com.
402
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yes, and Eclectic Cleric on all your socials, yeah.
403
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, and so they can find the creative… creativity check-in there?
404
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's right. Yeah, it's downloadable. Explain a little bit what that is.
405
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: If I recall, it's 10 questions, just to kind of take the pulse of where you are creatively.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What moves you, what excites you, where your passions are, what's holding you back?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: What you've always wanted to do.
408
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: where, you know, the roadblocks are, might be. Start… start to… Infer where the roadblocks are.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So… What… what is the one big…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Transformation that people get from working with you?
412
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What would you say that is?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think I've seen a lot of people get unblocked.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I mean, again, I'm so nervous to take credit, because I think that really undermines the artist's work and the work we do, you know, with any therapeutic intervention.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It wouldn't work without both parties.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think people who see themselves as maybe it's time for me to give up painting, maybe I don't have another great album in me.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Maybe I should just make commercial art. Maybe I should just worry about what Instagram thinks.
418
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Maybe I should go back to my day job full-time.
419
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It doesn't take long to convince them that that's not what should happen, and then to help them figure out what should happen next takes a little longer.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But it's usually out of a book.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Playful stance, which used to feel very silly.
422
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But now I… I don't know.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think that's sort of beginner's mind, helping people return to
424
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Why did you become an actor when you were 8? What did you love about being on stage?
425
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: What was it like the first time you picked up a watercolor?
426
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: You know?
427
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: What was the first poem you ever wrote?
428
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Actually, a great question, someone… not a… it wasn't exactly a question. No, it was a question. What is the first song you wrote that is definitively, like, yours?
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right? The first time you wrote a song that sounds like you.
430
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That was fun to think about.
431
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So, I don't know, connecting… reconnecting them to sort of that youthful exuberance, but also helping them get out of their own way.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Right, and… That there are these little tricks and sidesteps and detours in play.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That you can do to almost trick your mind and lower the stakes.
434
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: So that it's not so all or nothing.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: And it's fun to see, because people start creating new things, sometimes in a totally different medium or genre.
436
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I loved your questions just in this interview about when we were exploring what I did with
437
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: this Picasso copy that I made. Because I hadn't thought of those things.
438
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it will change the way I approach
439
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: creating art in the future. I will think about… Hmm.
440
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What am I feeling right now?
441
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And how does this… Open… opened me up.
442
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In the process.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That's incredible.
444
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's incredible to explore creativity. I think it's so life-giving.
445
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I don't know what… what we would do without it.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Creativity is deeply life-giving.
448
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: world.
449
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: People need to just put it out there, whether they think it's good or not.
450
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Good isn't that interesting.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It isn't.
452
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know? It also isn't, like…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Person… Personal is interesting.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Deep is interesting.
456
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Care… cared about, careful, is interesting.
457
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: good as… Rarely objective.
458
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Could this…
459
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's the difference between going to a store and buying something, and finding something in an antique store that… or in somebody's home, that it's just, like, it speaks to you.
460
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And that piece becomes part of your life, versus just another thing that you have in your house.
461
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: That sounds great.
462
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, if someone is feeling blocked, burned out, or disconnected right now, what's one creative practice they can start today that reconnects them to meaning and reminds them who they really are?
463
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I wouldn't say it's a creative practice, because I don't know if you're a painter or a songwriter.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I love going for a walk.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I… and you cannot bring your phone.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Another… another variant is sitting on a bench with a timer.
467
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: sitting on a bench for an hour, or… I mean, an hour is you could work up to, maybe you start with 10 minutes, and you just have a timer and no phone.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Nothing else. You just can't leave the bench.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think a walk is even better.
470
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I think going for a walk.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: I mean, if I had to name a thing that works the most often, and is the most generalizable, go for a walk.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Short of that, depending on
473
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Do something that you don't understand.
474
::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: The most common one I would recommend is write a poem, because most people don't know the rubrics of good poetry.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Like, we all know what a good song sounds like it has a beat, right? Poetry has changed so much over the lifetime of… over the centuries of people making poetry that the rules are constantly in flux, or seem to be over the course of centuries.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Very few people will judge whether it's a good or bad poem.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: But do something that you don't know the rules of.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: that you… no longer…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: have any context in which to judge. So another… another one that works is Dungeons & Dragons. There's no real rule. There's rules, but you can't… you can be bad at it, but that's not…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: the point.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It's something that you don't know whether you're good or bad at. It's kind of important.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Or a walk.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Maybe not label it.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Just let it be.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Yeah.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Whatever you…
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: create, just let it be. It doesn't have to be good or bad, it can just exist, because you created it.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Jill. Thank you for a great question and a great time. Yeah, thank you.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you're… thank you all for joining us also, and you can learn more about Rabbi Alan Alan, and get the creative
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Creativity Check-In Guide by visiting Electric…
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Eclectic Cleric.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Which looks, you know, sounds better than it's easy to say, yeah.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: It looks really cool when you write it down. It does look cool, but it's hard to say.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then… then… then you will find it. It's eclectic.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you can also find him over on Substack at eclecticcleric.substack.com. Thank you all for tuning in today. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your.
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::Rabbi Alon C Ferency: Chairman.
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::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple. Head to thecoachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. Please join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency. And remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get visible.
