In this high-impact episode of The High Profit Event Show, host Rudy Rodriguez sits down with legendary paid media strategist Farukh Shroff, founder of Revere Advertising. With over 20 years of experience, $350 million in ad spend, and $1 billion+ in client revenue, Farukh has assisted major brands—including Amazon, Deepak Chopra, and even Oprah—create and execute campaigns that convert.

This episode is a must-listen for any event leader looking to master the science of filling events—without relying on last-minute promos or blind hope.

Farukh breaks down the core strategies behind scalable and profitable event growth using paid advertising, especially Facebook ads. He walks through the key metrics that drive real results, showing you how to reverse engineer your event goals—from show-up rates to cost per acquisition to ROAS (Return on Ad Spend). Whether you're running a virtual summit or in-person seminar, this is the framework to follow.

We also dive deep into the concept of prospect awareness and why choosing the right funnel based on where your audience is on their journey is non-negotiable. From webinars to challenge funnels to video series, Farukh explains which strategy works best depending on your audience’s level of understanding and readiness to buy.

Rudy and Farukh also discuss the most common mistakes event marketers make—like trying to do too much at once, skipping the planning phase, or failing to retarget effectively. Farukh's advice is refreshingly practical: Start with one strategy, optimize every step, and only scale when you’re dialed in.

Farukh even shares a free tool—eventmarketingplanner.com—that helps you map out your campaign numbers before you ever run a single ad.

This episode is packed with expert-level guidance delivered in a clear, actionable format. If you’re ready to turn your next event into a high-converting, high-impact experience, this conversation is your blueprint.

🎧 Catch the full episode now and take your event strategy to the next level.

Want to connect with Farukh?

Event Marketing Planner (Free Tool): https://eventmarketingplanner.com/

Website: https://reveread.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fshroff/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fshroff

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fshroff1/

Welcome to today's episode. We have a special guest with us. Mr. Farukh from Revere Advertising. Welcome, sir.

Thank you. Appreciate you having me.

I'm excited to have you here and you're a neighbor and local here in Puerto Rico is always fun. We can actually meet in person, but I'm excited to have you on the show. I've actually wanted to have you on the shows for a couple years. We met a couple years ago here randomly in Puerto Rico and I'm like I gotta get you on this show because you've been in the game of marketing, sales, advertising, working with some pretty big names for over 20 years. In fact, you've worked with some names like Deepak Chopra, Oprah Winfrey, Wayne Dyer. You've worked with Amazon, the small little company named Amazon, and Barry and Blue, who run Sage Productions, which is pretty well known company in the live event space, virtual event space, and you and your agency have accounted for over 350 million dollars in paid advertising and have driven with your clients over a billion with a B in sales in the last 20 years. So some pretty impressive results, man. I'm really excited to hear your best practices, the things that you've learned from that experience, now. On our podcast, one of things we love to do is just jump right into some of the meat in the potatoes of the number one problem that people deal with when it comes to leading a profitable, impactful event, is hey, how do I fill my event? How do we get butts in seats? And you are the master of this. So I want to zip my mouth and just hand it over to you. I'd love to hear what you've learned over the years when it's come to leading or filling live events.

So I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm a little biased. After doing 20 years of advertising, digital advertising from SEO, social affiliate marketing, paid all of these different mediums and channels of advertising, I love paid. Paid advertising is one of my favorites for any kind of, whether it's e-commerce or selling a digital product or filling a live event. This was really exciting because when covid happened, there were so many companies and clients that we were working with and they're like, what do we do now? I don't know and they're like, literally I remember Barry and Blue. They were in Puerto Rico, in my house and like three days later they had an event and everything was getting shut down and all their events. They were just getting calls after calls and like everything's getting shut down. They're like, okay, what do we do to fill the event? Same question that you just asked and a lot of times people might not have a list. It's easy to just send an email and get some kind of predictable elements of getting so many signups and so on and so forth. But what if that's not enough? Or what do you do if you don't have a list? I think my go-to market strategy has always been money in, money out. Be able to scale or dial things down based on performance and the only channel that gives that level of complete control is paid advertising. So that's what I love to do. We can dive down as much as you want into paid because I've been doing it for over 20 years and I could geek out on numbers and how to think about it from a paid standpoint. How do you think about like, okay, how much should I spend or is this which should I go to Facebook or should I go Google or whatever? There's so much out there or Tic-Tok if you want to dance, but I don't like to dance. Well, I don't like to dance on camera. I like to dance in real life, but you know what I mean.

Yeah, it's a big world. You're absolutely right. There's so many different ones when it comes to marketing and filling so many strategies and even within the strategy of paid. There's all like you just mentioned. There's several substrategies inside of that and you've been versed in several of these like, where do we start? Hey, it's like the question and maybe it's best to go to some of the fundamental principles that you abide by when it comes to paid media and filling live events. I think that it would be a good place for us to start. What are some of those fundamental principles that you go by?

So there's two parts of this equation One is the actual paid ads, picking the platform, creating the strategy and the key part in all of this is reverse engineering for me. So we have to, before we even spend any kind of dollar, is like plan this out. Like, okay, if I have an email list, let's just pretend. Let's just take a hypothetical example. Let's just pretend we want a thousand people on a virtual event that you're doing or a live event and you have a pretty decent size email list of 50,000 and you can send them and fill it in the past. You've done that successfully and you're like, okay, I could get six or seven hundred people easily from my list, but there's a gap of 300. So now you know a number whether you have a list or don't have it. You have a definitive number that you need in order to make this event successful. So if 300 people show up then okay, how many people will stay how many people buy your high ticket offer? You would have some kind of idea if you've done this in the past. If you don't you'll have to go with industry standards. What is the conversion rate on a $15,000 offer? If you sell it at a live or virtual event? And so on and so forth. So the fundamental on the paid aspect of things is just put it down in numbers. I actually have a calculator that we actually use in order to fill these numbers, like how many people do you want at the event? What is your ticket price whether it's virtual or physical? How many people will actually show up to the event because you're gonna have a drop and show up rates and how many people will stay till the offer? What is the percentage of people that will buy and what is the price of the offer? These are some basic fundamental pieces that once you put it out there you'll have a great idea of what you need to spend in order to acquire that customer and what your ultimate return on advertising spend, your ROAS essentially, how much money you put in. You put a dollar in, you got two dollars out. You just doubled your money.

You would do that all day long. So if you can do that methodically and through calculations, then that gives you, your like at least a peace of mind that this is a viable channel. If this is going well, then these are the numbers. If this is not going well, I have to pivot a little bit or kill it. That's your fundamental piece of it. The second, I think Rudy, you're aware of this. We've talked about how important our thoughts and words are. It's like the messaging aspect of things and funny enough, like as I was thinking through what we would possibly talk about, I don't, you ever see this book? Breakthrough Advertising? This is like a little read on Amazon before to just see because it prices fluctuate. It's $500 for this book. It's crazy pants. But don't buy it. My good friend and mentor, Ryan Kurtz, owns the rights to this book. If you go to the website itself, you could get it for a lot cheaper, but this has the fundamental kind of component to understand the five stages of advertising and this is really important. The messaging side of things. So the five stages of advertising is like is the prospect aware? So this is the, based on different parts, like what are you doing a virtual event or a live event on? Is it like dog training? How to do certain things that people might be aware that's even a problem or not a problem? So once you understand the awareness stage of it, you could kind of determine which is the channel. So the second fundamental piece of this is going into the type of platform that you're going to take your media dollars and put it into. Here's what I mean by that. If you think about Google, how do people use Google?

It's like, I want, I don't know, some beef jerky sticks. That's my fun little snack. I know I want this and that's a desire. Am I having a problem where like I'm hungry? Yeah. Okay, cool. So I'm gonna go and type in Google like organic beef sticks and essentially what might come up as a result. So it's an intent based platform. I have an intent. I go on Google. I type it in and I get the results back versus Facebook. I'm just hanging out checking on my buddy what they're doing, what they're up to. Now it pops up. That's an interrupt based platform So the fundamental piece of it is to understand these five stages of advertising because that will dictate the platform. So is the prospect unaware? Are they problem aware? Are they solution aware? Are they product aware or are they most aware? This is a series of what every person goes through from a psychological perspective when they want or buy something. So once we understand this, then we could say, just go on Google, just go on Facebook, go on both and so on and so forth. So those are two pieces I would say.

Okay, there's a lot in there man. That is remarkable. The name of the book is Breakthrough Advertising. Where could people go find that for? They're not getting on Amazon.

Good question. I think it's breakthroughinadvertising.com. That's from that's Brian Kurtz's site. Breakthroughadvertisingbook.com and I believe he sells it only for like a hundred some dollars instead of $500. Oh, $125 plus shipping. Nice, so still a highly priced highly valuable book.

I've actually heard that book quoted by several reputable mentors and marketers, so I think you know success leaves clues as Tony Robbins oftentimes says.

I personally, Brian gave this copy to me for free like eight years ago. I wish I started when I started 20 years ago. I had this because that would have changed a lot of ways I would have approached advertising and strategies. So this is the must. It should be like marketing 101 for every student and college to read, man. So it's definitely worth it.

Wow right there. That's awesome. So, a couple things I'm hearing you say is you got to know your numbers or you got to build a predictable numbers based advertising strategy and you got to also have the messaging and the awareness of where your customer is at. So maybe could you potentially give us an example? Maybe some of the clients who you work with, for example, I know you work with Barry and Blue, and they're in turn helping other people with their events, etc. So what could you share with us maybe about an example or case study of how you've applied what you're sharing with us to helping them fill their event because they do an event?

Yeah, actually it's a good one. I'm glad you asked that question because there might be a lot of people in your audience that are just having this anxiety around starting a virtual event or going to a live event. Especially the live event component. There's so many costs associated with it. You have to book a venue. So if you're doing a decent sized one, of course get a guy, a hotel room block, the catering and things. There's a lot of upfront costs associated with it. So, fun example and story. As I was saying before, like literally Barry and Blue were in my living room. We're talking about marketing and strategy and all this fun stuff. Everything started going down and guess what? They've done, as you might already be aware of, they do events. They did physical events like multi thousand people events for their clients. They were their command management company and essentially their entire model was physical. They had no virtual component to their business. So at the end of the day, this is their entire bread-and-butter. Multi seven-figure company doing this for other clients and guess what? They've never done a virtual event or live event for their own products or services. So when this happened, we had to pivot and we were like, okay, hey, we're see we're gonna see like after a few months. We're seeing like all these people jumping on, doing things like in the sense of everything's virtual. People shopping online because they couldn't go out. They couldn't go to live events or everything's getting canceled. So ultimately they did this thing. It was like it's very pretty meta. They created a virtual event called The Virtual Event on Virtual Events. These are the guys that again, go like, Tony Robbins defense and like Matthew McConaughey to Allison Maslin, to like a bunch of big names in the industry.

So in short, they were just like, okay, well we've learned so much on the physical, virtual events. Let's take those concepts that apply to virtual. So they built this entire, initially it was just like, let's just do zoom. It's very simple. Make sure you have a good microphone, a little bit of lighting, and at the end of a zoom account, and here's how you do this. So we ended up doing a webinar to teach people how to do this, got them into a virtual event, then created this. Barry has this amazing framework of selling high ticket and how to structure your day one, day two, and day three in a strategy where it plays on each other to get the consumer excited, engaged, coming back and almost like running to the back of the room concept in a virtual environment so that they can buy their high ticket items. So we did the first event not knowing what it would be. It was a success for our wise standpoint and we basically, again you chose webinar as a modality, to just say hey, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a coach, if you're a client and you want to get out there, come check out our little master class that we talked about these things. They went in and sold a $67, I think it was $67 or $97 ticket, to come to our Virtual Event of Virtual Events, which is a 3 day event, as simple as that. Then when they went on it, there was a high ticket offer that was presented to get people more into that world and giving them exactly the framework they need in order to do an event really well. So I don't know if that helped or not. Were there any parts that you would want me to go deeper into?

I think you give a pretty good overview of the strategy, the big picture of what they did and It's kind of like the model of how to run events. That's what they do. They’re in the business of teaching people how to run events virtual.

That happened post covid. That wasn't their model. Their model was just an event based company. You come to them. You're like, I want a whole thousand people. They would manage the whole logistics and behind the scenes. Now, they are coming into their coaching world post covid. So yeah, which is their entire other business model and unit that got created post covid because a lot of people have that need and they were one of the best experts. Out of that, basically Tony Robbins, if you've ever seen that big screen with 12, 15 thousand people? Like this giant thing? They help Tony's team create that entire mechanism. The technology behind all of that. So all of this came about from that one place of coaching people to do virtual events in essence.

Awesome, man. Very cool and as far as coming back to the filling part and the filling aspect. Any specific things that you can, I know your agency ran or runs the marketing for them, the paid hour. Any specific things that you've found has worked when it's come to filling virtual or in-person events? Obviously make sure the numbers work, make sure the messaging work. Anything else inside of there?

Yeah, it's been such a long journey. It's like four years. So there's a lot of things we've kind of started and that's what I think the key part I forgot to mention in that process is they didn't even have their own list of people. So we had to start from scratch. We just had to start with spending a dollar and seeing what the lead and would they even come and show up to? The webinar, if they showed up, then what would they do? Would they buy the ticket or not? So we started in a little progressive manner, so you don't have to go all out. I guess that's one key part of this that I would like to mention. It's just start off with like saying, okay, I'm gonna spend whatever is in comfort. A thousand, five thousand. What does that turn into and what's the show up? What we've learned over time is some tips like at the end people didn't know this existed. So they were unaware. That's why I'm talking about the stages of advertising like where the consumer was. People might have thought they could have been. They're used to going in the beginning. So now things have shifted. So if you think about it back covid time virtual events. It was not, it was like not a thing. Not a multi thing where people could do it. It could be interactive and there could be little segments into it and how do you engage the people like Barry and Blue? One of the key things they do is they send a swag box to anybody who buys it with little hearts and sticks and stuff. So when they are asking questions or anything like that, the person can raise their stick to show and so they have a screen in the background where everybody's like engaging and doing that. So, how do you take the live element and put it into the virtual piece of it? So that's a learning over time.

But ultimately, I kind of lost my train of thought where I was actually going with the question. So I'm gonna retrace my steps for a second, but we were talking about like hey, wait, oh yeah. The stages of advertising. So when we started back in the covid days, people weren't aware that a virtual event can even be done, possible in a large environment and my little people were doing it. So they were unaware of this even existing. So we had to go in and educate them. Now people have seen it enough. They know it's possible. They are like, okay, so they might be solution aware, but they might not be very familiar with like, you actually have a product that solves the problem at the end of day. So all in all, to say where I'm going with this is, things have shifted in terms of the consumer behavior and their awareness cycle. So that we can now shift a little bit of platform and so I would say still start with Facebook as a primary driver to give more specifics because that still works for pretty much. I have done, I don't even know, almost like at least seven to ten different large multi six-figure spend launches to fill these events. So with that said, primary of that budget goes on Facebook. I guess people in the Facebook world love this stuff and it's been all over the place. It's not like how to do something. It's in all different verticals and niches. So Facebook I think is still the primary piece of it because most people are not searching like how to train your dog virtual event. They're not in there with that intent yet. So I think the interrupt marketing still wins. All right, you got to cue me a little bit on what was a question. I'm kind of losing my spot because I can say so much. Everything's going in my head.

Yeah, you're a brilliant man. You have so much to share with us. We're kind of on the topic of specifically lessons learned when it comes to filling the events and specifically with Barry and Blue, what you learned with them. That's very nice. I know you're kind of going on that thread but maybe one of the ways to dig a little deeper is in the five years and what you've done specifically with advertising to fill live events. What do you say is the most common mistake that maybe you've made or you've seen people make?

I think that tends to be very helpful to hear that I'm doing too much when things started working for us. I'm not speaking to Barry in Blue’s case in particular. I know I've worked with clients that have a lot of resources, a lot of ways and a lot of different pieces, and here's what I mean. So I remember one of the events that we were filling, trying to fill up, the client really was insistent upon trying multiple avenues. What I mean by that is like, let's do this 5 day challenge to get people all excited and then we can sell the ticket. Cool, let's have this quiz as well and let's have this webinar as well and like diversifying so much that you don't have data integrity in a short amount of time because when we think about live events, it's not something that we would do months and months ahead of time. It's typically, if you're really gunning for it, maybe two months is where you just kind of a little start, get some traction. But really for a virtual event, you don't need that long. For a physical event, yeah, you need months to kind of plan so people can put it on their calendar to book a ticket. In the book, I'll tell yada yada but a virtual event the maximum impact that we've seen is like two weeks before. A virtual event, if we start driving traffic aggressively, we could do like, it's usually a three-week cycle for us. Week one is like testing to see what messaging creatives are resonating and the two weeks leading up to the event is where we drive majority of the signups, essentially our ticket sales, so in that process the biggest mistake you can do is trying to try too many things not knowing what's working and at the end of day like you don't have a way to scale that systematically. You lose money. So that's my biggest spiel is if you're doing paid advertising, which is the angle that I'm coming from, is focus on one methodology. Make sure you master it and then go into the next one for the next event. So focus.

Yes, so stay focused. Don't try to diversify too quickly with too many mechanisms, marketing mechanisms. What would you say in your experience for someone who's just starting to choose one mechanism, what is working best right now as far as a dry traffic to a thing to sell tickets to your event?

Again, I would go back to the where are the consumer? What's their awareness like if they're unaware of this problem? You have to educate. If you have to educate then a challenge might be the best option. If they are like, oh I have a problem, like at the end of day my sales are dropping and I need to do an event, live event or virtual, it doesn't matter if they know that it's a problem. You don't nearly need to go into this longer cycle. You could shorten the cycle by saying just attend my webinar. So it's really where that person is in your market and where you're driving and how much scale you need. That's what dictates this. But webinar is still outperforming most of the other pieces for us. Okay, so webinar is per use what's been outperforming a lot of the other pieces consistently if I take the average some and some clients challenges because it's just a much more intimate way for them to really get. It might be a little bit technical. So they get those nuances. They get the tools. They get excited. So now they're coming to the live event to learn more. So it all depends if I take an average of everything, I would say seven out of ten times webinar outperforms in terms of actually selling tickets at a good return on investment.

Okay, that's a good distinction to make for people. This is actually really, really important because people hear the word webinar. They hear the word challenge. I just want to define what that means here. So my understanding of a challenge is something that's normally over the course of several days. It could be three days, five days, seven days correct? But like a module over the course of several days to get them to do something, to get some kind of winner, result with the idea of having them do something beyond that. Often challenges are like free or low cost with the goal. Okay, now you can come to the event and do more.

Yeah, we'll deep dive into this. Yep and then webinar is normally something that's like in the ballpark of 60 to maybe 90 minutes. That a good webinar actually is where you're delivering. This is like, some like Jason Fladlin, who's done over I don't know hundreds of million dollars with webinar. He has a framework which I love to follow but his framework is essentially you want to have content between 30 and 40 minutes and then you go into the pitch essentially, so you don't want like too long of a webinar. In short, people don't have that much fan anymore. So I would even say like anywhere from where you're driving content, you're delivering the trust, you're delivering the value in a webinar within 30 minutes to 40 minutes at the most and then you go into the pitch come to my virtual event or live event. Here's a ticket, buy now kind of deal and make it simple.

Okay. Yeah, so under an hour. Never come deliver teaching or content, but not really necessarily having them do something right there and then because you only have less than an hour to take the next step with you. Great. That's great. I appreciate you making those distinctions here and sharing that, all the data you've seen overall webinars just seem to be the most effective thing to enroll someone into buying a ticket for that. Awesome. Now, what else do you say or maybe some of the common mistakes that had been made from a promotional marketing perspective when it's come to filling events?

Yeah, other mistakes. Oh yeah, this is a big one, thank you for jogging my memory. I had to dig a little bit deeper. It is not really doing a good job with every stage of the overall channel and medium you're actually intending on. So let's just talk about webinar as a piece of the puzzle. So it's a lot of people will get lazy with their advertising and marketing efforts but really if you think about how busy we are and how much a little bandwidth and how much all of that we have at the end of the day. Let's just pretend somebody clicks on an ad and goes to your page. What is the opt-in conversion rate you should ideally have from somebody who clicked on an ad and went to a page and signed up for your webinar? Well, there are industry best practices like for instance, on warm traffic or cold traffic is an average. So an average let's just say instead of me going dissecting too geeky into this because I can do that, but let's just keep it simple for the audience. So let's just say an average in the industry is 15 to 20 percent is a good opt-in rate for a webinar. So that means like out of a hundred people who clicked on the ad 20 people will opt-in. Well, that's like 80 people that just said hey, this ad sounds cool and they clicked on the ad and went to the opt-in page and did not do something. But the eraser hands obviously because they clicked on the and something resonated and a lot of people will not take the time to say okay, let's take the people and create an audience for people who landed on the opt-in page but did not opt-in and show them an ad with a different angle to get them back into the whole funnel. So the second biggest mistakes is not taking every single touch point I'm creating an audience and speaking to them in a different way to get them to push them over the ledge.

So in a webinar world, people who went to the landing page and did not opt-in. That's one piece of the puzzle: people who opted in but did not show up because you're gonna get maybe 30-40 percent show up rates, that means 60% of them did not show up. Like if they did not show up, did they not have time? Well, why did they not show up? Like did we not have a good time? Did we pick a time at 3 p.m. eastern standard time where they're still at work? Maybe they need another time slot or maybe they just need a condensed version of the webinar. Instead of saying 60 minute webinar, how do we take the highlights of it and give them a 20-minute video to watch instead? Think through the overall obstacles of the consumer, why they didn't do a certain thing and get that ad in front of them. So if they showed up and did not buy it, well, they stayed till the end because we have those data points. If they stayed like 35-40 minutes or even 15 minutes, they saw the offer. It's just something either they got busy or they just need more testimonials. So testimonial is an avenue of an ad that can show to them like hey, we got all of these successes from people who attended, you should come out too. So every stage of the consumer again if we understand the awareness as we can push the trigger in each one of these is with a remarketing and a lot of people take the time to do that.

Wow, that right there, that thing you took the meat off the bone. Every single step of the journey with the marketing, the advertising and looking at for everyone who dropped off. What can we do to bring them forward, bring them back, bring them over the line? There's also things that can be done digital marketing with audiences and cookies and all these sorts of things obviously an expert like you does on a daily basis, but for someone who maybe that's not their forte, that's why they have agencies. That's why you have your agency. You're someone that you can come to you and you can help them figure out how to create the funnel, how to know their numbers, how to retarget people who are dropping off and ultimately to scale using printable numbers based advertising strategy. I know that you created something super special for our audience today specifically around helping them know their numbers, the return on their ad spend and to calculate what they need to calculate to have a profitable event. Would you like to share a little bit about that with our audience?

Yeah, so, Rudy reached out like a couple days ago and I'm like, oh my god. This is that he's like, this is my audience and this is the mean challenge and that's it was a very high level. I'm like, well, if filling is the event and we're gonna talk about advertising, geek out about paid, which is like my forte. Why don't we share like my internal agency calculator that you put in a few pieces of information. How many people you want and a little bit of traffic if you've done any kind of traffic? What's the cost per clicks are in these parameters? It will do everything for you and just give you the raw numbers of saying hey, you will get this kind of roas if you attend this and then there also gives you like breaking points like if you are not achieving a 20% opt-in rate, you're only getting 10% and your cost per lead just went up by xyz percent, then you should probably stop and it just gives you this little calculator that goes into the red. I didn't get a chance to fully finish it, but it will be done. It's launching on June 15th for all you guys, but if you go on to the site called eventmarketingplanner.com, you have my email on there, you can email me and just just as a preface, so I go and get a bunch of emails, our agency only works with clients that are at least spending hundred grand per month or more. So at the end, that's who we help as an audience. But for everything else, like if you're wanting the calculator, I'll put you on a list personally and I'll email it out to you.

Awesome and I appreciate that and I think by the time this episode publishes that that should be live. So we'll include the link to that here with the show notes or somewhere on the audio recording. What was the name of the website one more time for us? Eventmarketingplanner.com. Perfect eventmarketingplanner.com and through that free calculator, they'll be able to plug in their numbers and basically model the exact calculations that you guys do internally for your clients who are spending a hundred thousand dollars or more a month in marketing ad spend to figure out how they can plan their next live events was profitable for them on the front end.

And this, and just a preface, is just well just to piggyback on what Rudy's saying, is we actually do not spend a dollar unless we do media planning and this is the planning element of doing any spending, any kind of dollar out there, any kind of advertising in theory? But this is more geared towards the paid aspect of things. So yes, that's what it's gonna do for you.

Awesome, man. I'm excited to play with this thing. Farukh, as we wrap up our interview here, any final words of advice to someone in our audience, maybe perhaps it's their first event or the first time they're considering running paid ads to fill their event or maybe even hiring an agency like your own? Any advice you'd have for them?

Ah yeah, this is a little sore spot. It's a heartburner for me in some ways. There are a lot of people out there, they're everybody and their mother thinks they know ads and unfortunately, I've carved out a niche and we only help certain people, people because of bandwidth reasons, but I wish I can help everybody. So I think the key part of this is if your agency is or person you're helping or going down into this pathway, the key piece of information is make sure you are aware exactly what your return on advertising needs to be before with this calculator that I'm providing you and give the person or somebody on your team whoever is doing or yourself and then if you're doing it, it's almost like having stocks, like you're buying stocks. You have what your stop losses are, like you need to know when you get out. Like don't lose money. It's very easy also to lose money and it's very easy to also make a lot of money with all of this advertising and Facebook itself has a very good learning platform. We're talking about cookies and conversions, API and all this stuff. It literally guides you through videos and all of that stuff. So if you want to take a like three hours on a weekend or whatever you can actually learn how to do this yourself from a basic fundamental level and just get out there and do it, but make sure you know exactly your number so you know when to kill it or when it's really working to go take it off. So that's the thing, part of this game, know your numbers.

No, thank you, brother. All right, man. It's a great interview man. Appreciate you so much Alright, take care. Peace.