In this episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction, Tammy Vincent sits down with Mo Choice, ICF certified coach and NLP master, to explore what it really takes to move from burnout to freedom.

If you’ve ever felt exhausted, stuck, or like you’re constantly working but not truly living—this conversation will challenge how you think about success, sustainability, and the life you’re building.

Mo shares his personal journey through depression, multiple life resets, and rebuilding from the ground up—offering powerful insights into what it means to live with intention, self-trust, and true alignment.

Together, we break down:

1. Why burnout isn’t just about overworking—it’s about misalignment
2. The hidden patterns that keep entrepreneurs stuck and exhausted
3. How to build a financially sustainable life without sacrificing your well-being
4. The difference between chasing success and designing freedom
5. Why continuous movement and reinvention are key to growth
6. How to shift your mindset from survival to intentional living

This episode is especially powerful for:

✔ solopreneurs and entrepreneurs

✔ those experiencing burnout or overwhelm

✔ anyone navigating life transitions or reinvention

✔ high achievers seeking more balance and purpose

✔ individuals ready to build a life rooted in freedom, not pressure

This isn’t just about doing more.

👉 It’s about building a life that actually works for you.

🔗 Connect with Mo Choice

🌐 Website: https://www.moechoice.com/

💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moechoice/

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As an international inspirational speaker, NLP Practitioner, Trauma-Informed Coach, Neurofit Trainer, and Best-Selling Author, I bring both deep personal experience and professional training to the work I do. I believe in prevention, not just intervention — and use a body, mind, and spirit approach to guide others toward becoming the happiest, healthiest versions of themselves.

My holistic toolbox includes nervous system regulation, trauma-informed coaching, nutritional support, and natural healing strategies,

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Today we have with us another special guest.

His name is Mo Choice.

He is an ICF certified coach and NLP master who helps solopreneurs build financially sustainable lives without burnout.

After experiencing depression, loss, and multiple life resets, he now teaches people how to design lives rooted in freedom, self trust, and intentional living.

Good morning, Mo.

Good morning.

Whoever wrote that, they did a good job.

Yeah, right.

Doesn't it always sound better when somebody else reads your bio?

A hundred percent.

I hate doing it when people say, can you fill out your bio and can you write the.

And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that.

Please you do it.

Because I'm just like, I don't know.

I'm Tammy.

Like you.

What you see is what you get.

That's what I want to say.

Trauma, informed coach.

You fill in the rest.

Good for you.

So we're gonna.

I love that you travel and go all over the place.

And I'm assuming this is part of the life of freedom that you talk about living in?

Part, yes.

So talk a little bit about how you got doing what you're doing because it says you burned out.

I mean, at some point you have must have had.

Just talk about that and how you got to helping people from burning out.

I think it's important we think about what burnout means and had nothing left to give.

So maybe that's a better way to explain it.

Like, I couldn't get out of bed.

I just couldn't.

I couldn't face the world.

I couldn't be myself, be who I was.

I couldn't pretend anymore.

I didn't want to do what I was supposed to be doing.

And I didn't have any energy or enthusiasm for it.

And what were you doing at that time?

So I was running multiple businesses.

I just knew that I didn't want to work for anyone.

I knew that pretty.

I mean, my mom says at the age of three, you knew you didn't want to work for anyone because you didn't like authority.

And I have a different theory on it.

You know, as kids, we just pay attention to everything the big people are doing.

And I think I figured out very quickly that they didn't know what they were doing.

And so.

And so I think I made a decision at the time that I.

Why am I going to trust these big people?

I just have to figure it out on my own.

I think that was a belief.

I think my strategy was kind of figure it out on my own.

I have to.

I have to control my life rather than let anyone else control it.

And so, so I think I was always going to find a way to do things my own way.

And obviously building my own business was the easiest part.

I wasn't very talented.

I wanted to be a musician, a dj, a football player.

I wasn't good enough to do any of that stuff, so, so I was like, okay, so I can't do that, I can't be talented, so that's not going to bail me out.

So I have to figure out another way.

And so I thought I'd hire talented people and control them, manage them and lead them.

And so that's what I did.

But I wasn't a very good business owner.

I wasn't a very good leader either because I kind of didn't want to do it.

I was doing it only because I thought it was going to give me what I wanted.

So I wasn't in it for the love of the game, let's say.

And then I kept trying to figure out how to make it better.

And so bigger is better, right?

More money, more things to do, more distraction, more.

And so I kept taking on too much investors, bank debt, staff.

You know, I, I think I had over 100 staff by the time I left everything behind.

Full time staff, investors, bank loans or bank facilities.

And I just one day gave it up.

And I literally, after I burnt out, I put my passport in my pocket and I took a one way ticket back to London.

I was in Dubai at the time.

And that was the first time in my life I felt free.

Even though I had no idea where I was going.

It's like, I don't know where am I going?

I've got mom and dad's house at the age of 37.

They'll take me in for a bit maybe, but then what?

I have no idea.

So I had a blank canvas.

And so that's when I got into personal development because.

And I think it's a common story, it's a cliche probably, that when you have a big adversity in life, you then start to look inwards.

And so I started to learn, that's how I got into NLP and personal development and Feng shui and Family Constellation and EFT and you name it, I went to try and understand how it could help me.

And so I started to learn this stuff and then I started to teach this stuff because I wanted to learn it some more.

And teaching is the best teacher in my opinion.

Absolutely.

So I started to teach it.

And so I started to do leadership coaching, built my coaching business, and then Covid happened.

And when Covid happened, I was doing live workshops and live coaching.

And so when Covid happened, I was stuck indoors again and I went online and I learned LinkedIn and I learned how to do content and emails and dms and that took off and I was like, this is great because now I can travel and I can work from anywhere.

So I call it mentoring because I, I basically show people what I'm doing and then they can just either do what I'm doing or do something else.

So I only show people what I know how to do and what I am doing.

I don't talk about things I don't know.

Yeah, yeah.

And I wasn't always, I wasn't always like that.

Huh.

I used to talk a lot about things that I, that were theory based and I didn't have any lived experience.

And I think that's, I think that's cheating people when you do that.

It really is because you can only take them so far.

I tell people because people come to me and they're like, you know, and I started as an ACOA coach and I primarily was coaching adult children of alcoholics.

And I remember my first client said, oh my God, Tammy, I've been going to therapy for 11 years and I've been giving her $110 a week for 11 years.

And in 18 minutes you just told me more about why I am the way I am and one shift that will change my life.

And that's what you need to look for in a coach or a mentor or whatever.

Because, you know, I use the example all the time.

If someone comes to me and says, I lost a child, I can have all the empathy in the world.

I can give you textbook answers what to say and what not to say.

But I'm going to send you to a grief counselor or I'm going to send you to someone that lost their child.

Because, yeah, you know, I had too many.

Have you ever gone through that, Tammy, where you start getting all these models and you start learning all these things and you go, I want to use this, this sounds great, but actually it's Come down to a very simple model of what do you want?

How do you know you want it?

What are you prepared to do to get there?

And okay, what, what can we do today?

That's really my model and, and I got rid of all that.

You know, I think it's over complicated.

Honestly, some of this stuff, it's like, why, if I have the model and I can use it to help someone, that's fine.

But I don't need to give them the model, I don't need to teach them the model.

I just need to use it in how I question, how I ask the right questions and how I get them to take action.

That's it.

But I think what I loved about why I wanted to come onto your podcast actually was I think it is all dysfunction.

It's all things that we've picked up on the way that might have helped us at that time to deal with our parents, our situation.

But actually there are other strategies we can adopt, and we just never adopted them.

So we don't know how to use them and we don't know if they're going to work.

And so this is super interesting for me because I think that's what it comes down to with everybody.

Are you too much of a pleaser?

Are you too much of a risk taker?

Are you too little of a risk taker?

Are you too confrontational?

Are you too avoider?

You know what I mean?

There's always a strategy that you're doing too much of, and if it works, great, keep doing it.

No one but.

But if it's not work, you're coming to me because it's not working.

You wouldn't, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And you know, like, even like you said, though, there's work behind it.

You got to do the work to get out of it.

You have to have.

You have to have someone help you flip that mindset.

And that's where your NLP comes in a lot.

You can, you know, again, I can read about, oh, yeah, I developed all these patterns and that was a coping mechanism.

And that's.

I do this because.

But how do you stop it?

You know, your brain is the same brain you grew up with.

So it's like you should be more considerate.

It's like, what does that mean?

How do I do, how do I do that?

Stop procrastinating.

It's like how, right?

You know, get over yourself.

Believe in yourself.

It's like this is all.

This is like a sports coach saying, score more touchdowns, right?

You know, score or take More shots.

It's the how that we don't know.

Exactly.

Exactly.

We know the what.

We know the what.

Yeah, we know the end game.

But it's like, give me the tools.

And that's really what I wanted.

That was my intention with this podcast because it's.

I don't know, it started kind of like a.

Just a love project.

I just like to talk to people.

And I was like, oh, I can meet so many different people.

And let me tell you, I've met so many amazing people that do so many different things.

And then I started realizing, like, wow, there's so many different ways of saying the same thing.

And, you know, someone might listen to you and I saying the exact same thing and listen to it at two different times even, and they perceive it completely different.

So right time has to be the right message at the right time from the right voice.

It has to be.

It's the same.

You know, I think Gary Vaynerchuk or one of these social media celebrities said it once.

They said there's only about 12 truths of life.

I think it's true.

I think we can probably, Tammy, you and I sit and come up with seven truths that will probably transcend the situation, the background, the experience, the role, the gender.

You know what I mean?

Probably 12.

You know what I mean?

There's not that many.

They understand about life.

And I think, I think the beauty of what you do is you bring in different voices from different backgrounds.

You're going to say it in different ways.

I think that's, that's, that's where innovation happens when, when you bring people from different environments to then connect to the same truth.

That's what innovation is, in my opinion, because it's like a different way rules.

Truth seekers know in some sense.

We're trying to find out what the answer is.

Absolutely.

I actually have a series and it's a free, free resource for people and it's called the Collective Wisdom Healing series.

And, and it has about 40 different topics.

I just.

It's online, it's a Kajabi course, but it's super fun and it has like all, like a whole section on inner child work and it has all these different coaches and therapists version of what inner child work is and they can throw in their freebies.

So it's just, it really is interesting.

And I actually use it sometimes because if I have a client that's struggling with something sometimes and I've literally brought in people that I know are going to say, exactly, but I.

What I've Been trying to tell them for three months, and then all of a sudden they're like.

I'm like, hey, listen to this episode.

And all of a sudden they're like, oh, my God, Tammy, you've been trying to tell me this for three months, haven't you?

And I'm like, yes.

And like, I'm like, I don't care how you get the information, but I just felt like she was, like, hearing that, like the.

Charlie.

Yeah.

Hasn't times.

It hasn't landed.

Right.

And some.

Sometimes it lands, Tammy.

For me, anyway, it lands, but it doesn't become conscious.

So it's there, but then it needs.

It needs something to make it click and go, oh, my God.

That's what they're talking about.

So I. I think we also need to be empathic to ourselves and to others that, you know, it's like.

It's like my mind's trying to solve one problem, so if you give me the answer to another problem, that's also important.

But my mind's preoccupied trying to figure this out, so it doesn't have the space for that.

Right.

And so.

So that's why I think the timing is super important.

And sometimes it's just not.

It's not your day.

It's not your.

It's not the time for you for this particular thing.

So I think that's okay.

Yep.

And it's sometimes even, like, when you're dealing with a coach, a lot of times, too, I feel like it's like when you're a parent and you're trying to tell somebody something, and then you can't get.

You're like, oh, my God, they're not listening to me.

So you tell your sister, hey, go tell her that.

And then she's like, oh, yeah, my mom's been trying to tell me that.

Yeah, yeah, I understand.

Or even worse, they.

Even worse.

They come and tell you, auntie said this.

I think that's a great idea.

And.

And I am not a sexist person at all.

But I always say that, like, people will be like, I can't get my husband to, you know, to understand.

I'm like, then just make it his idea.

Then flip it around.

You find a way to make his idea.

That's not sexist.

That's not sexist.

I think that's exactly right.

I mean.

I mean, I learned this.

And when I was doing NLP coaching, I learned also from my mentors that it was.

You want to get them to come up with the idea because then they have ownership over it.

Right.

And sometimes you can reverse psychology someone.

You could say, I don't think this is right for you.

I do it with solopreneurship.

I'll be like, this isn't right for you.

It's probably better you go, what do you mean?

No, no, it is right for me because I can do this.

And they'll say all the things that I wanted them to say in the first place.

I do want you to talk about something in particular, because when you started the conversation, you basically were like, okay, I burned out.

I walked away from all of this.

And bam.

How do you.

If you're in that burnout stage, how do you do that without burning the house down and walking away?

I heard a brilliant quote the other day.

Depression hates a moving target.

Oh, I like that.

And so the goal is to keep moving, keep progressing, even if you don't know where you're going.

So if you don't know where you're going, the progress is to keep exploring, right?

Because you know, you're not where you want to be.

So you know that for sure.

Right?

So.

So then anything is progress from there.

So even like, cleaning up your room or, you know, maybe doing a spring clean of your clothes and giving clothes to charity or just, you know, going and help volunteer.

I volunteered.

That was the first thing I did, was I went to charities and said, you need a volunteer.

Because I just wanted to do something right?

Just to.

Just to get.

Make me feel useful again and make me feel like there's a reason to wake up and get out of bed.

Right?

And so I think that's.

I think that's the most important thing is to find something, you can do it.

And you can always make your home better.

You can always make your computer better.

You can always clean up your inbox.

You can always, you know, to tidy up things or check out old photos and organize them, or there's always something you can do immediately that will just get you.

It's like a project, a point.

There's a point to it.

Like, let's get this organized.

So I think that was super helpful for me to just get into action, because the more you get into action, the more you.

Again, it's the innovation idea that you're seeing new things and tying them to what you know, I always think of it, you know, the.

The yin yang.

So the line in the middle, Dao, living in dao, right?

The dao is talked about that.

That's where you have one foot in order, one foot in chaos.

So that's where you have one foot in what you know, but you always have to have a foot in the unknown, because otherwise you're not progressing.

You're stuck in the.

In the same.

Right.

And so if I'm depressed or burnt out or stuck or disengaged or demoralized or whatever it is, that means I'm stuck in something that I know.

So I have to put one foot in the unknown.

And so I think that's the biggest lesson I can say to people.

Find something to do and that will lead you to the next thing.

A hundred percent, yes.

And I love that, too, because if nothing else, it's a pattern.

Disconnect, connect like it's a pattern.

Interrupt, like you're doing.

You're going in a path.

And yes, it's not working for you.

So switch it up, like you said, even.

And I love that.

I love that about the cleaning up, because I did a whole podcast on someone who technically works with hoarders, but she talks about just decluttering every part of your life.

When you declutter your room, you declutter your mind.

When you declutter your car, you declutter.

So when I decided to go digital nomad, I sat and I thought, okay, what does it.

What would a digital nomad do?

Well, the first thing a digital nomad would do is to make the possessions as light as possible, because then it's easier to travel.

Right.

So I started to sell stuff on Amazon on.

So I learned how to sell on ebay, how to sell on Amazon.

I didn't know any of this stuff.

I didn't do it online.

I wasn't in the online world at all.

I sold clothes.

Whatever I couldn't sell, I gave to charity.

So I started going to local charities and giving them stuff.

And I learned how that worked and what they accepted and what they didn't accept and why.

And so that kept me really busy in lockdown, straight off the bat, because it's like, I've got.

I can shift stuff, and then it made it easier for me to move and leave.

And you realize.

And so that minimalism was the biggest impact I had on headspace.

Yeah.

Even though it was nothing to do with headspace, it was just.

And so I have a theory that every time we own something or we have something, it takes up real estate in your mind.

And I think psychologists agree with this idea.

Right.

It's like, because you know, you own it.

And so even though you're not thinking about what you own, it's lodged in here.

Something so when you let go of it, it's like you freed up a room in your, in your, in your, you know, the building in your mind.

And I felt that in a very real way.

So that was super, super powerful minimalism for me.

Oh, that's huge.

You know, it's funny that you say that too, because I literally, the.

Some of the most free times of my life are when I wake went off to another city to literally run a business or open a branch of my business.

I had a window and siding business and I had like three locations.

And some of my best times were when I was literally in a two bedroom apartment with absolutely nothing.

And my daughter's been living off the grid for a while and in a camper for 10 years.

And she's out in Colorado and she comes here and I'm like, how do you fill up a 2, 400 square foot house in the time you're here for three months?

Like, I don't understand how you do it.

But then she packs herself up all night, nice and tidy, and gets back in her camper and goes.

And it's amazing.

It's absolutely amazing.

I'll tell you something else about that also, how sit and Airbnb and I go to Denver and I go all over America and South America.

I used to buy, I stand, as you can see, and so most people don't have standing desks.

So I buy this tabletop extender, right.

So I can put it on a table.

And I thought, why do I. I'll just ship it to the next place that I'm going, right?

But even that, it's like, I gotta think about where is it?

It's lost in the mail.

So I stopped doing that.

So what I do now is I give the table to charity or I sell it to a secondhand furniture shop.

I just go to the next town and buy another one.

Because also I'm not really spending that much money.

I don't have bills, I don't have a mortgage, I don't have rent.

I don't have any of that stuff.

Right.

So for me to spend a couple of hundred bucks and then only get 50 bucks back from, from it after a couple of months, that's just my, it's just peace of mind.

Yeah.

And you know, some people look at me and go, you're nuts.

Why just ship it over and then you're saving money.

It's like, what am I saving, 20 bucks?

Yeah.

Like I'd rent it for 20 bucks if someone gave it to me as a rental.

So what there is.

Is it me?

Yeah.

No, it's.

It's funny you said that.

I'm picturing my daughter now.

She's going actually to Alaska from April to August to work in a lodge and do her thing there.

She works online.

She sells that enagic water system.

And so.

But she literally, she's like, okay, I'm having to think of the logistics.

So I'm going to sell this.

I'm going to go up there, I'm going to buy a camper in Colorado with the top, ship it.

And, like, it was.

And she's like.

But simple.

Like.

Like, she just.

It's a plan.

It's everything.

She knows what she's.

And it's funny because maybe I'm like, I feel like I should be.

I want.

I would love to be.

I want to live on a cruise ship, literally.

And everybody laughs at me, but I'm like, no, seriously, if anything ever happens to my husband, it's.

It's me and my laptop on a cruise ship for the rest of my life.

Solopreneurs at sea.

There you go.

I love it.

But, so you.

Okay, so I'm.

I'm.

You burned out.

You're doing what you love now you're helping people.

What is somebody.

Besides cleaning up?

Like, what do the people come to you for?

Like, they're burned out in jobs.

No, they don't come.

Actually, funny enough, they don't come to me because they're burnt out or they're worried about burning out, or maybe they are, but that's not why they come.

They come to me because they don't know how to live life on their own terms as a solopreneur.

And they know the path to that is money.

I always say to people, you don't buy a car because you want gas.

You buy a car because you want to get places, but you need the gas.

It's the same with money.

We don't work for money because we spend the money.

So it's not the money that we're working for.

It's the things that the money gets us.

It's the progress that we can make with the money.

So a lot of people have a weird relationship with money either because they've been used to getting a paycheck, so they don't understand how to make it unless they're getting a job, paid a salary, or they have this issue of guilt or, you know, how can I charge that much?

And it's all these mindset things that we talked about a little bit the strategies that they've adopted, the beliefs that they've adopted, that stopping them.

But they know that they have to learn how to make money to get there.

And that's the danger of the burnout.

They don't talk to me about that.

They don't say, I think I'm going to burn out.

I need help.

They say, I think you can help me make money.

I think you can show me how to make money.

As I'm doing, I'm doing a hundred different things, and I'm not moving the needle at all.

Yes.

Groundhog Day.

It's Groundhog Day.

So I talk about that a lot because I didn't just leave everything behind and become a multimillionaire.

I left everything behind.

And I was broke for three years because I didn't know what to do.

So it took me three years to build my credibility as a coach and start getting clients and pay my parents back and then get out of my parents home.

Right.

I was living with my parents for three years, 37, borrowing, you know, 20 bucks off my dad when I wanted to take a girl out for a drink.

You know what I mean?

Like, I didn't have any money.

I lost everything.

So.

So I had to build from scratch and then lockdown, same thing.

I lost all my clients overnight, and I had to build again.

So I had to rebuild twice.

Offline.

So reinvention offline and then reinvention and then extension online.

Right, right.

And so that resilience, that death and rebirth, that overcoming adversity, that thing people resonate with because they go, he's been through it, so he can help me.

That's who I attract.

Right.

And it's kind of.

Yeah, it's kind of like what I do.

Like, wow, you've been doing your healing thing for 30 years.

You have a box of tools that I can.

I can shorten this process.

That's what you pay for.

Speed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You see, this is an interesting thing.

I was talking to a lady the other day, and we were talking about her pricing, and she was like, I'm gonna charge $500.

She helps.

She.

She'll help your baby to sleep through the night so the baby doesn't wake up.

Oh.

So the angle is, as parents, you get your evening back and you can have a good night's sleep.

And I'm like, this is priceless.

And she's like, I'm gonna charge 500 bucks for this consultant consulting.

And I was like, what do you mean that's 5,000?

And she's like, yeah, but it's just a couple of sessions.

And this is because everyone knows this is true.

We pay for.

For speed, right?

So you.

You pay more for the flight that gets you there quicker than the flight that takes longer.

Right.

You pay more for the delivery that gets to your house quicker.

So everyone knows this, but yet there's this guilt in people of it's so easy for me to help them.

Why am I charging so much?

That's why.

Because imagine you said to the moment, it's going to take us three months to get your baby sleeping.

By then it.

By then it's in a different phase of toddlership and it's already sleeping on its own.

Whereas if I say, I'll get you there in three minutes.

Yeah.

And then why are you charging me so much for three minutes?

Because I can get your baby sleeping in three minutes.

That's why I'm charging so much.

Like I'm charging for the.

For the outcome, not for the process.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And.

And people really need to be able to say that themselves.

That to themselves is, if I could xyz, what would it be worth to people, literally, or.

And say that to their clients?

What's it worth to you if I.

Let's look at your.

Your example from earlier.

$110, A therapy session every week for 11 years.

How much money is that?

And then you've done more in 18 minutes.

So therefore, theoretically, she should pay you more than she's paid those 11 years in total.

And for that 18 minutes.

Yeah.

And she would have probably been happy to do that if someone had said, hey, I'll give you $30,000 and I want you to get me where I need to be.

Bam.

Well, this.

This is why we need to be brave.

Because.

So I say the difference between a freelancer and a solopreneur is the freelancer talks about how many hours, how many projects, how many processes, how long it takes.

Whereas a solopreneur says, if I get you to where you want to be, how much would you pay me?

Right.

Yep.

And people don't like that because it's risky.

Because if you don't get them the outcome, they won't pay you.

Right.

Whereas if you're saying, I charge by the hour, but I might not get you the outcome, I'm getting paid.

So that's the therapist.

I'm going to charge you 110 bucks whether or not you get over.

Your problem is I can't control that.

But I'm still going to charge you, right?

That's like I, I always give the, the metaphor of the restaurant.

Imagine we get to, we go to a restaurant and, and you know, they say you have to pay in advance for your steak.

And we pay and they go, but we don't know if you're going to get the steak.

But we're going to try.

Like we'll try and make it and we're going to spend the time on it.

But we don't know if you're going to get the steak or not.

But you still have to pay the check.

Why?

Well, because we tried to get you the steak.

It's like I don't care about you trying.

I want the steak and if I get the stake, I'll pay the check.

So what's the stake?

Right?

What is it?

And so, and that's where we have to be braver.

I think that's the unlock between earning an average salary and an average life and really making good money.

And that's where you come in with your training of not just having done the business side of it, but having been NLP part of it and having, because it is a lot of those.

You know, it's that self doubt, it's that fear, it's that yes, never be.

You know, I always say at the bottom of everything I do, every single person I talk to, it doesn't matter where they come from or what their dysfunction was is they have this under lying belief as of I'm just not enough.

So it's good enough, smart enough, so they don't have that sense of self.

Too old, too old, it's too late, you know, too many people are doing it or it's all these limiting beliefs.

And the beautiful thing about the NLP idea is you can, you can use language, words to, to change your belief.

You get to choose right what you believe because it's just a belief, it's not a, we're not arguing about facts here.

So facts you can't argue with, but it's a belief that you've adopted, right?

Which means you can choose.

And so why would you choose to believe something that doesn't empower you?

Right?

And the only reason is because it's a, it's an, it's a good excuse, I'm too old.

So it's a really good excuse to, to abdicate responsibility for your life.

It's a great excuse, right?

It's like when people blame capitalism or the patriarchy or corruption or you know, the algorithm on Social media, everything else's fault, but.

But it feels good because it used to drive me crazy, Tammy.

I'm like, what the hell's wrong with these people?

But it's.

It's re.

I understand it because it's like, it makes my life easier.

I can.

I can sleep at night knowing that it's the evil, capitalist, corrupt patriarchy that's stopping me from being successful.

So the flip needs to be, I don't want to sleep where I'm sleeping right now.

I want to exactly enjoy and happiness.

It doesn't matter how I need to get or what I need to do.

You know, it's kind of like when people have these blanks of periods of their life that they don't remember, and people will ask them about that time of their life.

And literally, it's like the stories come out and I go, interesting, because a couple weeks ago you were just saying you don't remember.

So literally your brain made up a story to fit in there.

And I'm like, make it a good one.

You're gonna make it up anyway.

So.

So they're making up the story to fit their narrative, to fit their belief.

Yeah, literally.

They will literally fill in the blanks with what they think happened based on their history.

And I'm like, if you're making up that.

Because I have childhood blanks in my childhood, I don't remember months, years, vacations.

So if someone's going to say, well, what about that vacation?

And I'm thinking to myself, I don't really remember it.

But now I'm like, well, damn, it must have been really good then.

Like, I make it good.

That's a mind trick, right?

So, because you can.

So you can.

You can change your reality by changing the narrative, Particularly if it's not.

If it's not, because it's not a lie, then no.

But if you're.

If you don't remember it, you might as well create a good one.

Yeah, that's what I say.

If you're filling the blank with something that you don't honestly remember and you need to come up with a story to make yourself not feel crazy, make it a damn good story.

I love that.

And I think you can use the same for belief.

Like, it's like, do you believe in God?

What do you want to.

Like, if you believed in God, would your life be better?

And if you didn't believe in God, would your life be better?

If it's better believing or not believing, pick that one.

Right.

Why do you have to.

Because it's a belief.

It's just what you choose to say is true.

Right.

And that's what NLP taught me.

But it.

And.

And I think we're similar in the.

In the sense that the.

It starts with the awareness they have to be aware that I don't remember or I do want this or I want it to change.

And that's a powerful coaching question, you know, so someone will say to me, you know, I don't like being in big groups or I don't like staring in front of a screen or, you know, I don't like selling.

Right.

I don't like.

It's too.

It feels too dirty to me or too achy.

And my question is always, do you want to?

Yeah.

Do you.

Do you want to not like sales?

Do you want to not like being in front of the screen?

And every single time, maybe there's been one or two exceptions, but almost every time they say no, I want to be able to like sales.

I want to be able to sit in front of a screen.

I want to be able to create content.

I want to be able to put myself out there.

Great.

So now we know what you want.

If we don't know that, because a lot of coaches take it at gospel.

I don't want to be salesy.

Great, then let's not be salesy.

Why.

Why don't we figure out whether they really want that or not first?

And then once we know what we want, then the question becomes, are you prepared to do what it takes to get there?

Are you?

Is it worth the effort?

Right.

And so we need those two things to be true.

What do we want?

And is it worth the effort to get it right?

And if the.

If it's yes.

Yes, then there's a will now.

And where there's a will, there's a way often.

Yes.

You know, if you don't want to overcome your abuse, if you don't want to overcome your childhood trauma, if you don't want to.

If you'd rather just park it and say, I'll just deal with.

With my life as I go, then that's the different question to what if we can deal with it and it will be okay and you'll be able to have an even better life?

Right.

And if they say yes to that, then we have a starting point.

But if they say no, I'm not.

It's too scary for me because I've.

I've seen this in trauma, too.

Huh?

Yeah.

And that's.

That's a very valid.

You get to A point in your healing, especially when you've had serious trauma, where it is a very.

It's very valid, too, for people to say, I think I'm good.

Are you happy?

You know, and then it's like, there's such a difference, and I want to, like, scream it from the rooftop between surviving and thriving.

You know what I mean?

If you're standing here right now and we're talking, you've survived flat out, you're a warrior.

But, yeah, do you want more?

You know, especially with people that are dealing with these identity crises and these perfectionism things, and there's people pleasing, and it's like, do you want to just be able to say what's on your mind without getting a gut punch in your body somewhere?

I mean, there's billions of people walking around that can't do that.

Literally cannot do that.

Yeah, yeah.

Physically.

Physically can't do it.

Physically can't.

Like they.

You know, and it's.

And you watch it.

You watch it.

I. I work at night at a restaurant for my medical benefits.

I know it's.

I don't.

I don't know where your medical benefits are based, but in the United States, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Very tough.

I know.

Yeah.

Self employed.

So I'm like, well, I'll work 30 hours, you know, at night.

I work four nights a week or whatever.

And anyway, I get a hundred dollars a month medical benefits.

Pretty good gig.

Amazing, Amazing.

Full benefits.

So.

But anyway, I meet a lot, a lot of people, and I love watching the relationships and watching the dynamics of, like, the couples, you know, where one guy, lady says, oh, I think I really want fish.

And I ran into this just the other day, and the guy goes, no, she'll have a day.

Surfer salad.

And it was like I watched her whole body shrink.

And I turned around and looked at her, and she said.

And then she finally said to him, what did I say I wanted?

And I looked at her and I said, you didn't say what you wanted?

He said, what you wanted.

You said you wanted fish.

And I know I probably mess up a lot of my service tips and all that stuff, but I'm like, are you kidding me?

Like, you just said, what did you say I wanted?

And so many of us are like that.

And.

But I, without even realizing it, and like, it's like I physically watched the change in her body.

Yeah, you can't hide.

You can hide the words, but you can't hide the physiology.

You can tell from the eyes, from the body shape.

You can tell someone's not being themselves, like they're not open.

Oh, yeah.

It's so sad, huh?

I always say that you can trick your mind.

Your mind is actually kind of, like you said, a little fickle.

You can convince it this and that.

You can't lie to your body.

No, no, no.

Your.

Your gut, your instinct, your whole body will react to if you're like, it's.

I. I used to say.

I. I learned this from some psychologist.

I can't remember who I think it was.

He said, you know, you're telling the truth because you feel the power.

You feel your body open up when you speak it.

And you know that you're saying something that isn't true, because when you speak that, you can feel and see your body shrinking, like it's hiding, like it's embarrassed, like it's ashamed.

And I started to see it in myself.

So I would write down a sentence that isn't true for me, and I'd say it.

And I can feel the.

You know, the resistance or the.

You know what I mean?

And.

And it's.

It's unbelievable.

It's so powerful.

And.

But no one teaches us this, Tammy.

No one sits us down at school or whatever and says, you know, this is how to tell the truth, is how to be open.

This is how you.

And that's the problem, I think, is that they've dumbed us down a lot in the syllabus, in the curriculum, and the way they teach that we haven't had the ability to be aware and to connect with our true selves and to understand how to live our best lives.

We haven't been taught, not at all.

But I. I just.

I mean.

And like you said, you.

It's sometimes as simple as a question, as simple as a question to yourself.

And I use it all the time with all of my clients.

When they'll say, you know, they're like, okay, we've gotten through that one.

And I will literally five minutes later into the conversation, I'm like, okay, repeat after me.

And I'll literally just say something like, I no longer hold guilt and shame over what happened with my brother.

And then I'm like, now stop.

I'm like, just be aware.

And she'll be like, oh.

Or, you know, oh, my God, my whole back clenched up.

So you do still.

You still need to work on it.

It's still there.

And I think, like, for people that, you know, it's kind of like muscle testing, almost like we know inside, we know truths.

If you stand there and you're standing at your sink and you're like holding something and you're like, is this gonna do me good?

Your body knows it goes forward or back.

If you say, I love myself, your body is going to go forward or back, depending on the truth.

And that's why the lie detector tests work, because it feeds off.

It feeds off your body.

It doesn't feed off what you're saying.

Yeah, I actually have a.

One of my things I do.

I don't know if you've heard it on my podcast is I have a bio resonance voice frequency scanner.

I do with people that literally analyzes like 171,000 different frequencies.

And it is the same technology that they use for lie detector test.

So it's like, it'll take your highest three notes, which you would think would be things that you're really feeling, but it's actually things that you're overcompensating for.

So it'll say, okay, you've got this, you've got that.

The fourth one it analyzes is a suppressed emotion.

You don't even know you're feeling it.

But then it sends back, like, balancing harmonics.

And people have told me they just cry when they listen to the suppressed emotion one, and they don't know why.

Like tears.

I'm like, because it's opening up like your body is going.

To.

I would do that.

How do you get it?

It's literally on an app on my phone.

You pay 150 bucks a month and you have access to it.

And it's so enlightening.

It's really interesting.

And it's fun.

It's a fun way for people to come to me and say, oh, I need, you know, this.

And then when it runs a summary, it's like, okay, your nervous system is in complete overload and your adrenals are doing this.

And that is why your meridians are not connect.

Like your heart meridian or your, yeah, your throat chakra is needing to be worked on.

It does all of it.

It's really cool.

I'll do one for you.

Your body, like, your body doesn't.

Can't hide.

Can't.

Can't.

Yeah, you can't hide.

You can't.

You can't hide.

The.

And, and this is, I think on, on one of your episodes, you were saying the mind, the conscious.

Or I, I, I might be misspeaking it, but something like the, the mind is the last thing, the last part of your body to know what's going on.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

When you get scared, it's like your whole body tenses and then your brain goes, oh my gosh, I'm scared.

I'm scared.

So that's the same with the lie.

It's like by the time you figure out that you need to hide something, the body's already reacted.

And, and you know, I used to, I used to play tournament poker around America.

And that's how the great poker players, they can spot the non, non verbal signals.

When someone gets excited or when someone's scared, they can spot that.

And that's why.

And you're like, how does he always know?

How does he always know he's bluffing?

And how does he always know he had a good hand?

It's like, because they can feel it.

They can sense it from the, from the non verbal.

Yeah, yeah.

So much.

Yeah, how do you say so much?

And that's good.

I used to teach like, kind of like the psychology of sales.

Like how with their feet, you know, if you stand with your feet straight forward, they're not, they're not really listening to you because your body can't stand with their feet.

Straightforward, without focusing on balancing.

Oh, it's gotta be open.

So they gotta be open.

So as soon as you actually catch their interest, they will step forward and naturally balance themselves.

And if they point their feet away, it means they're trying to get out of the conversation.

Like I always used to tell people.

Like people used to go up and they open the door with their arms crossed and I'm like, just cross your arms and talk to them and then slowly uncross your arms.

And they will uncross their arms.

And as soon as their arms hit.

Completely, that's the mirror matching.

You know what I do?

I try and get them to do something to uncross their arms.

So I would say if you got a pen or something.

So I try and get them to do something.

You know, I remember, I used to watch.

So Judge Judy was big on this.

So Judge Judy made them take their hands out of their pocket and uncross their arms because she knows that they're more vulnerable and she'd make them look in.

So if they didn't look at her, she's like, don't look over there, don't look over there.

Look at me when you're talking, when you're answering the question.

And, and that was.

And when they asked her in an interview why that was such a.

And she goes, because then I can see if they're lying or telling the truth because we're very good at hiding it with our, you Know, by covering our hands and covering our chest and.

Not, oh, my gosh, this has been so fun.

I could really literally talk to you forever.

We'll have to do another one, but,.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Yeah, yeah.

If people want to work with you, tell us about that, how you work, how they reach out to you.

So the first thing is I work with people.

Like, it's very intensive because it's what we've been talking about.

You can learn how to sell and how to create an offer and how to use LinkedIn with courses, free courses on YouTube and stuff.

That's not really what I'm giving you.

What I'm giving you is a way to strip out the noise and be honest about what you want and what's stopping you and to confront those voluntarily, the fears and the strategies that are holding you back so that we can figure out how to overcome them, not to shy away from them.

So it's only for people that really want to face their problems and deal with them, whatever the problem is, that's getting in the way of you unlocking your potential to live life on your own terms.

So that's what I do.

But then I give you the framework, how to position yourself as a solopreneur, how to create an offer that's compelling for the market, and then how to go and find people and engage with them in sales conversations.

So I show you the whole model, and it's all based on proper psychology and principles of persuasion and marketing frameworks.

So if anyone wants to embark on that, I have a gift, actually, for your audience.

I do a live masterclass where I go through the framework and I explain how it works and I show, I tell stories about how I learned it and how others have learned it and so they can come to that.

I run that live.

By the time you post this, we'll have the date for it, so you can put it in the session notes for the next one.

And if they sign up on the link that I give you, I'll give them a couple of bonuses as well of some of my techniques and my frameworks so that they can start.

Start working on them straight away.

And I'm on LinkedIn most of the time.

I'm trying to grow outside of LinkedIn, but you find me on LinkedIn MoChoice and you can interact with me there and you can see my content there every day.

Okay, perfect.

Sounds good.

I will have all that in the show notes, especially the free masterclass.

Because she doesn't need to learn, right?

That's fun.

That's super fun.

And before you go, Mo, first of all, thank you so much.

I so appreciate you coming on.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And you're very welcome.

And now if you could leave the listeners with your big picture idea or concept or belief.

You get to choose what's true about the world.

You get to choose.

You get to choose what, what you believe to be true about the world and how it exists and how you exist and how others exist in it.

You get to choose.

And so you can, you can write out your beliefs and change them and then believe those instead.

Amen.

So.

So why wouldn't you do that?

Absolutely.

I mean, it makes total sense and it seems so simple, but it is.

You have to know that you have the choice.

So thank you again so much.

And for everybody else out there listening, you heard them.

And it's not just a matter of just moving forward in business or just being where you want to be in business.

It's in any aspect of your life and it's out there for the taking.

So go take it.

Go take your life back.

Get control back.

Get the joy and the peace and the love back that you so, so deserve.

You all have a blessed one.

And we will see you back next week.