Thanksgiving...Already?

Episode 8 • 19th November 2022 • Common Sense Ohio • Common Sense Ohio

matter, look at the upcoming: 2024

Norm: That's right. But not puny wars. Punic, yeah, punic maybe, but not puny. There's nothing puny in Texas, I could tell you that.

Steve: Maybe you were, but the rest of Texas was not.

Norm: Oh no, I came back with a gold medal, buddy.

Steve: All right, well, good news.

Norm: Good.

Brett: I got to think you've had previous episodes in Lawyer Talk talking about the, uh, nuances of Thanksgiving and how those families coming together could be a war.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Brett: And I think bringing in Common Sense Ohio podcast to the conversation is the smartest thing anybody can do.

Steve: I agree.

Norm: Yeah.

Steve: So you could say seriously, it's like, say the prayer. Okay, so when you say the prayer.

Norm: Now we're talking about religion.

Steve: Okay?

Norm: So in my household, the other thing we talked about that basically most families proscribe is you can't talk politics. Well, if you grew up the son of a politician, that's all the hell you talk about. If you talk about politics and you talk about religion, and that is table talk.

Steve: Well, don't fight about politics and don't fight about religion. But talking about them and exchanging ideas about politics, religion and anything else, I think is always fair game. I think it's stupid to have taboo topics. Well, Steve, unless you're talking about, like, marquis desert or something, I gotta tell.

Norm: You, uh, our, uh, family conversations usually ended up with one of the sons in jug and having to go to his bedroom for the night and think about what he had just said to my dad. Yeah. So it did result in arguments and it did result in challenges and, um, provocative statements. And I have to say, probably 90% of those involved me. Uh, out of, uh, six children.

Steve: I can't imagine.

Norm: No, I can't imagine. The blabbermouth oldest son was usually the one in trouble. But I think that I demonstrated for my siblings, um, a little bit of bravery, a little bit of, uh, independence, and looking at how successful my siblings are, I think it's good for every family to have a rebel. Um, I think that serves every family well, as long as there's love in the household, and there certainly was in ours. Yeah.

Steve: Well, I tell you, um, uh, I agree with you. I think there ought to be arguments, debates, discussions about all sorts of topics at Thanksgiving, and maybe I think having somebody sent to their room or something like that, there's lessons to be learned there, too. Right. Because if you don't learn how to debate with somebody in an, uh, appropriate manner at Thanksgiving when you're a kid, then when are you going to learn it?

Norm: Yeah. Elon Musk would have loved my dad because, uh, Elon is sending Twitter employees to the room. They have to sign a little pledge that says they're going to work their asses off. Right. And, um, the freebies are gone because there is nothing free in life. The idea that, ah, you have a nice boss that feeds you meals and has this and that, that's costing the boss money that he otherwise perhaps would have paid you in its salary. Right. If you think you're getting it for free. You're not like this idea that things are free. It's such a gen z. Oh, this.

Steve: Would be like a tax question for an accountant at some juncture. But I used to say when I had lots of employees up there, it's like, I can get you this for free. But I didn't mean free. I don't think I always said free. Uh, but I can get you this outside payroll. Like, I can give you a cell phone and I, uh, can pay your mileage, and I can pay these things. It's not free, but it's outside the realm of payroll, so I'm not paying payroll tax on it.

Norm: Right.

Steve: And, um, these perks but now they're.

Norm: Cost me money, but now they're w twoing just about everything anymore.

Steve: And now there's that press in California.

Norm: Remember when you used to get a car? Remember, like, salesman got a car from the company?

Steve: That still happens.

Norm: But now it's on a w two.

Steve: Really?

Norm: Oh, yeah.

Steve: A salesforce like the company car is no company car.

Norm: That's one thing. But then the mileage has to be strictly company. But when a guy used to get a car from the company, right?

Steve: Yeah.

Norm: Company would write it off. The guy was free to use it personally, to take his family to vacation, whatever. Well, now the IRS makes you completely document the miles. And for the miles that are attributed to your personal life, that's taxable. And it has to be w two or you have to pay tax on it.

Steve: That's going to be a disaster in this day and age of working from home and working remotely. I mean, it just is.

Norm: Uh, yeah, it's been that way for a little while, but they're w twoing everything anymore.

Steve: I've thought about for a long time, just buying a, uh, high what am I trying to say? A car that gets great gas mileage, right. And sticking at my lot. Because so often I'm driving to Cleveland, I'm driven to Cinci, I'm driving to Date, and I'm driving to New York, I'm driving to Mount Vernon, London, or Maryville, and just use that solely for work. But I've never been able to make whatever's work.

Norm: Put a big sticker on it. Uh, uh, advertising your law firm, no.

Steve: Common sense, but put a sticker on.

Norm: Their attorney, uh, on board, hit me. And it's your assume exactly.

Steve: Thanksgiving. We got to just cover Thanksgiving. I mean, there's history, the family. It's like we're an American tradition.

Norm: Yeah, we used to watch, uh, back when there were only three networks. Uh, there was no cable, little kids. We used to watch, uh, the wizard of Oz. That was broadcast every Thanksgiving. And my favorite part, just, uh, to bring this back to, uh, current wicked witches, is, um, we were talking about the election last week, and yes, it wasn't a red tsunami. Maybe it wasn't a huge red wave, but it was a pretty good wave because ding dong, the Wicked Witch is dead. That was my favorite part of The Wizard of Oz. Man well, when the soldiers and the little monkey guys that used to work for the Wicked Witch were suddenly freed of her and flipped, right? They joined the happy people, and they marched around with their little wait a.

Steve: Minute, they didn't get canceled for me.

Norm: No. They were allowed to evolve, right, and become good little monkeys and good little soldiers, and they marched around so happy. Bing dong. The Wicked Witch is dead. And I think there's probably a lot of collective, uh, sighing, probably even on the democratic side, that she is stepping down enough. And that stenny. Hoyer, dude. Her yes. Man uh, him, too. So he's resigning your, uh, wizard story.

Steve: Email history reminiscence, I guess, or thought about World War II. There was a time when, in the spring of 44, I guess it would have been, uh, the American troops were working our way towards, uh, Berlin, and they encountered the Nazi troops retreating, going back west from the, uh, Soviets, who were coming fast. And, uh, uh, they were actually having conversations with the American soldiers, like, come on with us. Yeah, sure, we have to go fight the Soviets, right? And, uh, the Americans rejected that, and, um, I can't even say for bad reason at the time. I mean, they were Nazi soldiers, and we just bought them for four years.

Norm: Well, the Russians were our allies, and the Russians were, after being Hitler's allies.

Steve: A tenuous ally, we will say.

So the Russians, in September: 1939

Steve: Uh, you can almost understand how or why that could occur, but man stalin had no I don't think Stalin had any intent on remaining, um, loyal to Hitler more than Hitler had any intent on remaining loyal to Stalin. And if there's an interesting history lesson, the Katyn Forest, if you want to, uh, you're talking about when they both invaded Poland, and it was brutal. Brutal how they treated the Poles, the Soviets. Absolutely brutal. They rounded up every single high ranking official and shot them. Just shot.

Norm: The reason for the Cattle Forest massacre, um, and it was on the order of 200 Polish officers, was to forever decapitate, uh, the leadership for a Polish uprising against the Soviets. And, yeah, they took out a generation of Polish intellectuals, polish military, uh, uh, the polls were military geniuses in a lot of ways. They, um, obviously didn't have the industrial might of Germany, but their courage in battle was, uh, extraordinary. And frankly, we're possibly going to see a repeat of that, um, you know, if Putin, ah, decides, uh, to do anything crazy with regards to the polls, we had a little false, uh, scare this week with a couple of missiles that really came from the Ukraine, um, accidentally, and not from, uh, the Soviet Union or Russia. But, um, let me tell you what, um, if you think the Ukrainians are fighters, they got nothing on the polls.

Steve: Yes, well, I, uh, don't know how we got sort of sideways there. And what's that doing? Well, it makes sense. It's common sense, right? You had this notion in The Wizard of Oz that, uh, we can accept, uh, the other side and actually learn and realize that the individuals down at the local, individual, personal level are all the same. We're all flawed in our own ways. We all have value in our own ways. And you don't just cancel the entire world because you disagree with them on a certain topic.

Norm: But even more than that, steve, the wizard of Oz, the Ding dong. The Wicked Witch is dead. It teaches us that as much as he's gone well, as much as we want to be, um, let down, as we don't want to be, but as much as we want to discuss being let down, that we didn't get this tsunami and the polls were wrong, it is a time for celebration. Right? I mean, the Republicans have the House now, right? If they don't have the Senate, they don't have the presidency, not yet. They're not going to pass legislation that's, uh, going to be accepted. But you got crazy old Mitch out there running the Senate saying, well, let's do the stuff between the 240 yard lines that we can all agree mitch, there really isn't anything we agree on anymore. What I want is absolute frozen gridlock. That's what I want. And I just got gridlock, and I am so happy about that. My toes are curling over the idea that the House, they can pass symbolic legislation. I love that. Go ahead and pass very aggressive legislation that shows your intent and what you would do. But let's block, uh, the let's block these budget bills that have packed into them all the crazy Chuck Schumer and AOC crap that's just got to stop.

Steve: And look, the last time we had a balanced budget was it Clinton? Clinton's second half. Second half.

Norm: Because he lost to Newt Gingrich? Essentially.

Steve: Right? Yeah, he lost and they couldn't pass anything. And all of a sudden, unless he worked with Newt. Unless he worked with Newt.

Norm: Right.

Steve: And when you can't pass anything, you have this gridlock. And I remember what's his name, um, uh, who was the guy you said gridlock stockdale was his.

Norm: Right.

Steve: I didn't realize at the time, but looking back, that's good.

Norm: That's good.

Steve: That's what the federal government is supposed to be. I was like, they're blocking. You can't get anything done. Well, the federal government was not intended to be, um, left, uh, unchecked.

Norm: Let me ask you fellas, so when they shut down for a few days, the federal government, they still paid Social Security checks, and they still had a military that was functional. So those people got paid. But basically, when the bureaucrats stayed home, did your life change in any appreciable way?

Brett: Less news.

Norm: Oh, dude, I was the happiest man in the world. It's like, you know, what if we could shut it down and they just got their check and stayed at home and didn't do anything, that's progress. Stay home. Don't pass any more stupid. Uh, Department of Transportation or Federal Aviation Administration.

Steve: No bills that have names that are designed to mislead you about their intent.

Norm: Exactly.

Steve: The infrastructure bill. Like, there's no infrastructure and infrastructure bill or the antiinflation bill.

Brett: Are you kidding me?

Norm: The only shovel ready thing was the shoveling of bullshit.

Steve: Right. Exactly right.

Norm: That was what was shovel ready. Uh, even Obama said his shovel ready infrastructure bill, the one he passed with Joe as vice president, basically paid for extra police and firemen. It was a union, a grande bill. It didn't build highways. It bridges. It didn't repair airports. It was just a gift to the public sector unions.

Steve: Yeah. That's all it was.

Norm: That's all it was. And they call that infrastructure. That term infrastructure, is now elastic. It means bus drivers. It means cops and firemen. It means grants to people doing demonstration projects and the public's thinking, oh, you're finally going to fix I 71. Nope, that's not what we're doing.

Steve: No.

Norm: You're going to head a lane. No, not going to happen.

Steve: You're going to get that on your tax bill somewhere else.

Norm: We're going to build a bullet train in California that goes between two points. That don't even get me started on that. Nobody's, uh, going to take it. Nobody's so stupid they're building a train out in the middle of nowhere that goes to politically correct, uh, intermediate stopping points.

Steve: And here's what I want to know. Here's what I want to know about that kind of stuff, and here's the common sense viewpoint on it.

Norm: Huh?

Steve: Whose land is getting purchased? What land is the government going to purchase? Where the stop is going to be? Who's getting money? And I will guarantee you that if you connect all those dots, you will see the very true purpose of such a stupid idea. It's not because you want people to start taking trains. That's the stated position. But people are getting rich behind it, right? Who's getting the contract to build it? Whose land is getting taken? Because there's a taking clause in the Constitution. That doesn't mean they just get to take it without compensation. So the government will take your land to build something like a rare stop, and then you get a huge check, right? And, uh, on land that's out in the middle of a desert that is otherwise valueless, all of a sudden, it's worth millions because the government is going to pay millions and put a bus stop there.

Norm: So, returning to the election and the Ohio aspects, um, we lost Steve Shabbat, a great congressman from the Cincinnati area. Um, thank you, Ohio Supreme Court and your insane redistricting, uh, decisions. Uh, so he was gerrymandered out of what was once a safe, um, conservative district. Uh, so he lost to, um, the Democratic challenger. So no more Steve Shabbat. He was a staunch defender, ah, of the right to life, um, and, um, a budget hawk. So that's a loss for Ohio. But on the flip side, jim Jordan now being in the majority, is going to be able to hold these hearings. And I had heard that Lindsey Graham and, um, Ron, uh, Johnson and the senators on the Republican side, who cannot, um, at this point, unless Herschel wins, they'll be in the minority. If Warnock wins, ah, and they won't split committee, uh, chairmanships, then in the Senate, uh, if it's not 50 50, if it is 50 50, the Democrats and the Republicans will split chairmanships and perhaps they'll be able to have Senate hearings. But it's looking like that's not going to happen, um, for sure, it, uh, may happen. So the senators that want to look into, uh, biden's, uh, grift, uh, with the Chinese, his grift with the Ukrainians, his grift with the Russians, him being the big guy, him being the guy in on these payola schemes, uh, where he is now compromised in our foreign policy as president, they want to look into that. They want to look into the FBI crimes, the FBI setting up, um, uh, the entire narrative that, uh, uh, Trump colluded with the Russians. They want to look into those, those things. How did the DNC convince the FBI to go to the FISA court and start monitoring President Trump, presidentelect Trump and then President Trump monitor him even while he's president, and you've got comey bragging about how he tricked, uh, the national security advice. They want to get into all those things. They want to get into the origins of COVID Clearly, the Communist Chinese have been lying to us, been lying to the world about COVID So Jim Jordan, as chairman of, um, the, um, Intelligence Committee, is going to be able to, uh, hold those kinds of hearings. And the Republican senators basically went to Jim Jordan, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him, uh, even host Republican senators, as inquisitors, um, during, um, like, you can designate a lawyer for the committee. They may designate Lindsey Graham or, uh, Ron Johnson. Uh, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen. So there is a lot to celebrate. I think the American people have a lot of questions. And our own Ohio congressman, Jim Jordan, is going to be center stage for the next two years, which is fantastic.

Steve: Yeah, I think distilling all that. I think what I heard is what's really good here is that the House's job, sort of historically, has been to do these types of investigations to really dig into stuff. And some of that, they become sort of these public show trials, and some of them actually, uh, have some meaning. But I love it when we can air out things, particularly the pandemic. I mean, let's air this crap out and find out what really happened. And a guy like Jim Jordan is a nononsense guy, and people don't like him because he says what he thinks and thinks what he says, and if that makes any sense, uh, but he tries to be honest about everything, and he's intellectually honest about where he comes from. He would be a great common sense Ohio guest.

Norm: Yes, he would.

Steve: So, Jim, we're calling you soon. Yes, but I like the idea that we can have some finally, the other side of it, and I'll admit it will be biased, because the Republicans, they want to take on a different approach or take on different stuff than the Dems did. And, um, there was a lot of, uh, sort of resounding obvious silence out of the Democrat side on things like how did the virus begin? Who made all the money on the virus? What was Fauche doing making billions or millions during the, uh, virus shutdowns? It's like, I want to know this crap, man, because I'm pissed.

Norm: Oh, yeah.

Brett: I think we need to look back on it, because it's part of the problem. This isn't going to be a solo effort on this. It's going to happen again in some other form, for sure. It may not be a disease or a pandemic, but it's some other payoff scheme. Uh, whatever.

Steve: These corrupt assholes shut down my business, your business, lots of people's businesses. And they made millions as a result. It is gross.

Brett: And it's created the atmosphere that we are in today.

Steve: Yes.

Brett: Again, the inflation, you can't really point to one, two, three thing. But guess what? This inflation would not have happened if, uh, we didn't do what we did two years ago. Now, going on three years, actually, the.

Steve: Inflation would have happened if we didn't pass those billion what is it? 3.5 billion, and then another 3.5 billion boondoggles that basically printed money.

Norm: Uh, utter.

Steve: Uh, look, imagine what note Freeman said. He'd be so incensed. All Biden had to do was, nothing open up. This economy was already awesome, right? It was humming along. You did not have to do anything. You could have opened it up, and it may have taken a month or two to catch up, but I bet you within three months, we would have been back right where we were. Instead, they printed money and gave it away. And anybody who has any, I say this all the time previously, inflation is made in DC.

Norm: Yeah. And they spiked the cost of inflation by denying permits, by shutting down the pipeline that was under construction. With all those union welder and fitter jobs. Got people out there in North Dakota, south Dakota, Montana, stitching together this, uh, XL pipeline. Uh, Missouri, the middle of America. And these are all union workers. And his first act in office is to kick those people out of their jobs. A lot of those guys are still unemployed. They move their households to these work sites. And they went from being popup neighborhoods. Now they're ghettos.

Steve: And what's interesting you have to look at it this way. Economically, I'm no economics expert, but I try to look at it from a common sense standpoint. We had this huge influx of cash, free cash. And we just said, nothing is free. So I'm using free in quotes where the federal government was essentially printing money and giving it to people at the same time they were shackling the industrial side of things, the production side of things. So the money couldn't be used for anything. Um, and what did that do? It created these huge price increases and it devalued the dollar. It was this double whammy of insanity. And had they just have done nothing like Thomas always says this, it's remarkable how good the people are recovering, how good the economy is. It recovering when you just get these assholes off the horse, just get off the saddle and let the horses run. We're going to be just fine without them.

Norm: I mean, look what it did for Amazon. It's, uh, just unbelievable what it did. Amazon, Walmart, they shut down Main Street and they left open the big box stores, big grocery chains. The mom and pop grocery chains had to shut down. The big chains got to stay open. McDonald's got to stay open.

Steve: Made billions.

Norm: I mean, and Amazon became the retailer. Probably 90% of America was shopping at Amazon.

Steve: Because normally this is antidemocratic. Uh, ideally, I'm still, like five, six years ago, the Dems all hated big companies. They all hated them.

Norm: Right?

Steve: I hate these big corporations. Walmart comes in and destroys these towns. They put a big thing and they undercut everybody's labor, or the undercut everyone's costs and take all the labor and blah, blah, blah. And the Republicans will say, yeah, but they're creating jobs. That was sort of like that. Somewhere in the middle, the common sense lies. But that was the thing. And then all of sudden, A, the over government action basically created a system that let these huge big box stores flourish on a level that is unprecedented.

Brett: In a long enough period to that it's habit forming.

Norm: Yeah.

drones that are able to drop: 1015

Steve: Truckers are they've ruined it now. Progress in the name of progress. But you know what? Uh, if your goal is to help the common individual in our country, well, this isn't doing it.

Norm: No. The other thing that happened at the same time that still staggers me is two things. The liberals not only embraced corporate America and Wall Street, frankly, okay, they not in big banks.

Steve: I went to bed with them.

Norm: Big banks went to bed with them. And you see that with this FTX thing, uh, right now, the, uh, crypto 15, uh, billion dollar crash, you see the same kind of reaction where, you know, the pro crypto, the pro government, the pro big business Democrats are still shielding this guy who's clearly a criminal. Uh, but the two things that happened, along with the embrace of big corporate America, which contravenes the entire history of the lefty progressive people, is they also embraced the government. I mean, instead of the old Abbey Hoffman, the, uh, old Jane Fonda, uh, the old, uh, protest here at, uh, Democrats who said, the last institution that you would trust for accurate information, the last institution you would trust with your children we're going through the Vietnam War, and there were young boys going off there to die. So the last institution that you would have faith in is the federal government.

Steve: For good reason. They thought that.

Norm: For good reason, right? And they completely have transmogrified themselves into the biggest supporter of central planning and.

Steve: The federal government engineering that outcomes.

Norm: Whatever Fauci says, whatever if triple math, whatever comes out of the CDC is freaking gospel. And only Ron DeSantis is the new Democrat. He's the new protester. He's the new rebel because he wasn't being spoonfed by Washington DC. He had independent health experts giving him advice on what you do during a pandemic. They're looking up old research from the who that says masks are completely ineffective, which is what Falchi said week one, uh, about the pan. And instead, everybody on the liberal side marched lockstep with the federal government like lemmings, like the opposite of what a progressive used to be.

Steve: It's like, it's fundamental. It's like if they tell you something and it turns out that it's wrong, it's one of two things. They were either lying to you, or they had bad information, and they made a mistake. And nobody was asking either question. Were they lying? Or was this a mistake? And then when they changed directions and said, no, you don't need to wear mask, then they changed back, yes, you need to wear masks. I only told you. You didn't need to wear masks because we didn't have enough mask. So now I need to wear three mask because we have lots of say.

Norm: We gotta go three now go down the list of what the federal government said, whether it was children ought to be together at school. And so now we got to cancel two years of school, uh, in some states and in some school districts, whether it was the vaccine thing. And now we're seeing, oh gosh, I guess we didn't test those vaccines for what the later effects would be, the side effects. And now we're starting to see them. And even people who were very strident that you had to adhere to all this advice are even that Citadel is starting to crumble a little bit and they're starting to go, yeah, maybe I was wrong, maybe I was hasty. But the other thing that the liberals did during this embrace of the federal government and the embrace of just the.

Steve: Liberals, by the way, no, Trump was doing this.

Norm: No, I'm just going to stay with the liberals.

Steve: Okay.

Norm: We could talk about the crimes of the right too. There's plenty to talk about. And I don't think Trump is no conservative. I've said that from day one on this show.

Steve: Absolutely.

Norm: So, uh, he's no movement conservative. He, uh, doesn't even know what it means. But the third thing that's really weird about the Democrats, about the liberals and the progressives, is their flip on conformity. They used to be the nonconformists in society. The people who would show up with a tie dye Tshirt and wild hairdos and not give a crap about what people would think about them. And they would have unique ideas and strange religious beliefs. And they used to just say, yeah, man, hey, I'm, um, doing my thing. You do your thing, I'll do my thing. As long as we don't hurt each other, man, it's cool. Let me smoke my shit, you smoke yours. And they were the nonconformist people. Now they're the people who, if you say one thing wrong on Twitter, they want you banned for life or Google or YouTube or whatever. And Elon goes from being the liberal icon, the guy who's just wonderful in the media, darling, to now he's a pariah. Why? Because he wants to let, once again, people on Twitter express themselves in their own iconic, classic ways. And that is such a threat to the conformist, which is what the liberals have become, conformist.

Steve: It's so incredible to me that you get a guy like, um, um, Crosby, Stills, Neil Young, um, who's got these millions of dollars and he's loaded, he's got a Spotify stuff. And then if Spotify is going to sign on Joe Rogan, he's like, all of a sudden going to take this position that I'm not mean, I'm going to take my toys and go home. But he's already a millionaire, so it really doesn't matter for him right and, uh, he was the guy that you're talking about. He was the shoutout guy. And honestly, I agreed with that notion that you should be able to do and act and behave however you want as long as you don't step in my backyard and cause me problems. I agreed 100%. I didn't agree with Hanoi Jane going over there and sharing our secrets, but collaborating with the enemy and causing torture and causing torture and men be killed. But I, uh, did agree with the fact that she should be able to say, I don't agree with this war, and here's why, and I don't trust my government, and here's why. Fine. I was on that side. I've always been on that side.

Norm: Absolutely. Grab a banner, go march down. I don't care. That's fine.

Steve: Love it.

Norm: Absolutely.

Steve: Because we need that right now.

Norm: All the guys at the VFW hall, on the other hand, that want to support the troops you bet. That want to have their march, they.

Steve: Should do the same.

Norm: Fucking A. Sure. Ah.

Steve: They should do the same.

Norm: Absolutely.

Steve: And now we don't have that. It's so bizarre to me that I can't get on, uh, like, I couldn't go on mainstream media if I'm a doctor and say, wait a minute, this medicine doesn't make sense. I'm board certified, and blah, blah, blah, blah, all the expertise of these rest of these people, but I don't agree.

Norm: Right?

Steve: And now it's come out that pfizer moderna, uh, these people knew that the vaccine was not going to stop transmission of this disease.

Norm: Right.

Steve: All these jackasses and I have friends, and I've called them on it in some situations where they were like, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, all this crap. And they're not saying sorry, right? But they were on there saying, I'm ignorant, I'm stupid, I'm uneducated, I'm a fool. This is a pandemic. Only these people I had one guy who's a lawyer, refers me business online saying, essentially, this is a good thing because all these idiots will just die.

Brett: Oh, jeez.

Steve: They'll die. Uh, Darwin. He says, Darwin beautiful. And it's like that goes back to.

Brett: The AIDS and homosexuals.

Steve: Yeah, right. That is exactly a foul of common sense.

Norm: Well, and it's so illogical because he didn't have a scintilla of scientific evidence that he was right. He had no data. And in fact, the pharma companies you just named wanted the data buried for how many years, Steve? What did they try to get? The regulation was that it wouldn't be open to, uh, freedom, uh, of Information Act what was it, 60 or 90 years ago? It was insane because they wanted to hide the data that your friend thinks was going to support his argument. What he took he's a religionist. He's just like the climate religionist. He's being told something that he already has a bias. He wants to believe that it's true, and he just is accepting it. He is somebody who is acting on faith in the federal government rather than using his brain and actually breaking down facts and trying to understand where the data is that supports this purported policy that's going to protect us from infecting each other. It turns out it was all bullshit.

Steve: I talked to, uh, a very close doctor friend of mine during this time frame, and I was like, is it true that we can have asymptomatic spread? And on a very simple level, he's like, well, not unless this is a virus that acts like no other virus ever known to mankind. Now, it spreads quickly, and certainly it was very contagious. But it's like if you don't have symptoms, you really weren't going to spread it to people with symptoms. And then maybe there was like a small period of time where you got a little sniffle or something happens. But it spreads by sneezing, it spreads by coughing. It spreads by doing all the things that viruses do.

Norm: You remember the wiping down we did wiping down of surfaces? Not just we no, I'm talking it as a policy. Yeah, we did this wiping down of every surface. I mean, you saw Kroger, for example, just naming r1.01 retailer. Uh, Kroger had entire phalanxes of workers who were going around with these antibacterial wipes, and they were wiping down every.

Steve: Cart, every and we remember when every shell there was a backlash in all the antibacterial crap. Remember that? When there was like this backlash, like.

Brett: Because you want some bacteria, because your body needs to build this up, otherwise it's sicker.

Steve: It's even a minor exposure. Your body can overcome it and create antibodies that are needed to overcome well, if you're deprived of that, what happens?

Norm: Even more fundamentally, they then about a year into Covet said, well, it was like falchy with the masking. He then basically disclosed, yes, we knew it wasn't spread by surface contact. We knew that it was only expectorating particles, like when you sneeze or cough, exchanging body fluids, basically from your lungs and your nose. That's how you got it. It wasn't through surface contact. So a guy full of COVID touching a hand cart at Kroger, and then you coming 1 second later and grabbing the same area of the hand cart, no transmission. It was impossible. And they knew it from there.

Steve: And there was rumors that that would be like ours, right?

Brett: Yes. Well, I remember Jared talking about buying machinery and steaming his shop. Exactly. He put a lot of money into that. But that was to stay open, though.

Steve: Jared stay open.

Norm: And for those that don't know, Jared ran a vape shop. He's a friend of the program.

Steve: But it was beyond that, though. So Jared is a businessman, and Jared and I talked about this. They're like, look, whether we agree with this or not, people are going to want their places steam cleaned. So let's get the equipment steam cleaned. Like, look, I'll sell you if you're an Eskimo, if you're asking Frank, well, let's sell it to you.

Norm: It was a health department requirements in some counties, and I think Franklin County was on board with that. You had to do it. Maybe the whole state of Ohio. It was so tragic. I've forgotten what, uh, our dictator governor ordered everybody to do. But he basically acted under emergency powers that I don't know of any constitutional thing in Ohio that gave him the power to do a lot of what he did.

Brett: We remember enough that we didn't. Yeah, we put in a right in.

Norm: Yeah, that's right. We remember. I voted for Steve.

Steve: Uh, he created emergency powers that didn't exist.

Norm: Didn't exist.

Steve: And then whenever there was somebody, whenever Congress wanted to this is across country for these people that were doing it, congress would say, Wait a minute. The idea of an emergency is we don't have time to get Congress here or our local legislative bodies here, general assembly in Ohio together and actually vet this appropriately. So we need to get some emergency powers in case, uh, to help bridge the gap. But there's got to be a stop on that where we can then come back and do a referendum. And he was vetoing that stuff. When you're vetoing the very check on your own power because you think that you know better and your emergency powers should trump all that right. It's dictatorship.

Norm: Yeah. And he got reelected by, what, 28 points? It was ridiculous. And there was a conservative Republican, um, effort to impeach Governor, uh, DeWine. I don't know if people actually know that, but articles of impeachment were filed by at least one state representative. Uh, now, uh, that would be an interesting guest, actually.

Steve: It just is so insane to me how people would fall into lockstep with this. And now we have the same people who fall into lockstep with it, advocating for giving everybody a pass.

Norm: Yeah.

Steve: And that was on the verge of a potential red wave. All these people are coming out saying, look, let's let bygones be bygones. Let's not everybody. It was a hard time for everybody. Let's just, uh, not go back and investigate these people. And I'm like, up your ass, man. It's like, these people if somebody made a legitimate mistake, I'm fine with it, by the way, guys, own up to it.

Norm: I'm drinking Texas ranch water here from Chuck Norris. Okay.

Steve: That's why you want to race.

Norm: That's right. This is Chuck Norris. Water. And like Mrs. Hussman used to tell me in grade school, norman, did you bring enough gum for everybody? I mean, you're drinking Chuck Norris water. Did you bring some for everybody? Oh, God.

Brett: She's sharing.

Norm: Well, hell, yes, I did. This is from Texas.

Steve: Thank you.

Brett: Well, I'm impressed. Made America was recycled plastic.

Norm: I've often thought that Ohio I've often thought that Ohio needed an, uh, equivalent to the Texas rangers.

Brett: You are totally woke on this certified, woman owned business recycle plastic Norm.

Norm: I know. You are riding it, right? You're riding it. Next thing you know, I'm growing food.

Brett: I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, I love it, though. It's fantastic.

Steve: So I guess this is sort of like end of the year type talk. Like, what's going to happen going forward? Are we really going to let, um, these people have a pass on all this bad policy, all these bad practices? At least do an investigation. To the extent somebody made a mistake in the heat of a pandemic, I got no problem with it. But when they double and tripled down on it to COVID up their own mistake at the outset, or if they made millions of dollars as a result of their actions on the personal side, I got a huge freaking problem. We call that corruption. We call that criminal. This is embezzle. Uh, it's the functional equivalent of public embezzlement.

Norm: I don't think truth is political. At the end of the day, that's right. At the end of the day, truth is the factual, actual record of events or revelation of what occurred, in fact. And the American public is entitled to know, uh, many of these questions, and they have been submerged and buried. If you remember, again, you might have to go, in a way, back machine. But if you watched the Watergate hearings, for example, where Richard Nixon was investigated, the Republicans on those committees were just as interested in the truth as the Democrats. If there was abuse and Richard Nixon tried to get the FBI to work for his political benefit, he asked the attorney general, he asked the head of the FBI. He fired, uh, uh, one attorney general and brought in excuse me he fired one special prosecutor and brought in another. Uh, you know, he did everything he could as an organism to defend and survive. And he ultimately was told by fellow Republicans, george Bush, the first, in fact, was the head of the Republican National Committee, went to the president, went to Richard Nixon and said, you must resign the presidency. It wasn't the Democrats, it was the Republicans. And you don't see any of that you don't see any of that internal.

Brett: Policing kind of feel skepticism.

Norm: When Trump was president, you saw Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan react to this, as it turns out, cooked up fake FBI, allegation that Trump was colluding to the Russians. And for two years, the Republicans had the presidency, they had the House of Representatives, and they had the Senate, and they basically didn't pass anything. And it was because Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell blocked President Trump for his first two years. They didn't do anything of any significance. They didn't get rid of Obamacare. They didn't build the wall. I mean, they didn't do much. Trump had to use executive orders to accomplish anything. And yet you don't see that on the other side. Where is the curiosity by the Democrats about whether or not Joe Biden is actually bought off by our international, uh, enemies?

Steve: You had Kristen Cinema and Joe Manchin sort of standing strong for a while, but even they caved eventually, and it's just lockstep and maybe, uh uh, I don't know if it's going to keep going forward that way. In the long run, I think in the short run, it is. I think that's just how it's going to be.

Norm: Yeah. It's all about winning now. It's not about the truth. And dude, I am interested in the truth. So if Jim Jordan and this congressman, uh, from Kentucky, that's going to look into the allegations of, um, colluding with Ukraine, the Communist Chinese, I mean, we're about to possibly have a hot war over Taiwan. And is Joe Biden is he compromised with the Communist Chinese and therefore would not act to defend Taiwan? The American people are entitled to know that because our boys and girls are going to go fight in that hot war if it happens. And we need to know, is our president compromised on that issue? Yes or no? That is an urgent matter of it's a factual matter. And I need to know the truth of that. That may look partisan to people that think about winning and losing, but we're talking about dead. We're talking about people who could be dead next week or the week thereafter if the 6th Fleet is injected into a hot war between China and Taiwan.

Brett: Yes.

Norm: This is big stuff.

Steve: It's huge stuff.

Norm: It is.

Brett: I mean, I think Biden's come out and said, we'll protect Taiwan. But obviously what's that mean? It's saber rattling.

Steve: They said something a little bit more watered down. They said something like, I will honor the agreement that we have with Taiwan. But the agreement has got some catch all in there. It's like he is never going to send us over there to protect Taiwan in the way that it sounds like he's saying we're going to protect Taiwan.

Norm: We still have a one China policy where we say, well, long term, you should reunite.

Steve: Right?

Norm: There is only one China.

Steve: Yes. It's total crap. Ola I would be shocked if Biden's got the cajones to send over troops to protect Taiwan in the way that we're thinking. I don't think he will. There's a case I know this isn't lawyer talk anymore, but there is a case that came out of Ohio. So I want to talk about it. And it's relevant to this scientific discussion that we had. And I'm not going to cite it. I'll do that on a lawyer talking legal breakdown. But here's the basic gist of it. About 20 years ago, somebody was convicted of murder for a shaking baby. Um, got. Uh, it that's the cringe moment that everybody has. And, uh, at that time, there was this notion of shaking baby syndrome. Shaken baby syndrome being, if you've got a ball hemorrhaging, you've got certain, uh, injuries to the brain. Uh, those could only be caused by shaking. Uh, and, uh, it was based on this cluster of symptoms that doctors just sort of said, this is Shaken Baby Syndrome. There was no real peer review on the science. Uh, nobody really questioned it. Uh, so outcomes from all that shaken Baby Syndrome, SBS, wow. There were doctors who come into courtrooms and testify, yes, this is SBS, and therefore, the only cause of this death could be shaking baby.

Norm: And so therefore, the caregivers for that baby were almost per se guilty.

Steve: Lots of people were convicted. Now, it doesn't mean that all people who were convicted of shaking baby type murder were actually innocent. Of course, it's certainly not. Uh, but there was a case that reversed. After 20 years. This guy gets a new trial based on the new science because lawyers, criminal defense attorneys, advocates for the cause. I'm not one of those. I am an advocate for my clients. But there are people who advocate for the cause, and we need those people. They came out, and they've been fighting this stuff for years. And if I would have walked into a courtroom, I first started practice and saying, SBS is nonsense, I would have been labeled. I would have been an outcast. And I did do that at times. Um, I would have been, uh, chastised, like, you don't know what you're talking about. This is a pandemic of the uneducated. That's how I would have been treated. And it turns out that I was right. It was total crap. The science was bunk. It was not peer reviewed. It wasn't ever really tested. It wasn't, um, terrible. It turned out to be nonsense terrible. So guys, after serving 20 years or girls after serving 20 years in prison, are now starting to get released based on wrongful convictions. Judges are saying, you know what? You're right. This was bad science at the time. We're going to reverse the convictions. And I guess my point of all this is I will not go so far as to say, and I don't think it's true, probably in any or very few if any cases, that the people who are testifying against these defendants really knew that they were wrong and really wanted to wrongfully convict somebody. I think the answer is probably the opposite. I thought they really thought they were right, and they really thought that they were getting the correct conviction. If the opposite of that is true, if the other part of that is true, it's a dangerous problem that we'll have to deal with on a different topic. But if you have corrupt prosecutors seeking wrongful convictions, that's, like, the highest order stuff. But I don't think that's what it was. So the point of all this is, as we look back and we're on this precipice of saying, let's give these people a pass for their dumb science? Um, no, no, let's not. Because people lost their lives literally because they couldn't get the medical care that would have saved them through Ivrmectin or otherwise. And not all the people that died would have been saved. Certainly some of them could have been. And they couldn't get treatments that they deserved.

Norm: There were monstrosities being played out in hospitals and in, uh, hospice centers.

Steve: Yes.

Norm: Across the country. I know in my own family, um, my mother in law, um, was slowly she was in hospice and she was passing away. And, um, my wife, uh, and her immediate family, her son, her husband could only they had to go in in basically what was a painter's outfit. Right. So they head to toe in tie vex or some kind of like you're.

Steve: Going into the China Sea.

Norm: Yeah, exactly. Now, this is a woman who's dying, OK? She's dying. Right. The last thing anybody's worried about is transmitting, if it even was you want.

Steve: To m be with your loved one covet, right.

Norm: She's going to die in the next.

Steve: 6 hours or be with her family.

Norm: And you won't let in more than one person. And that one person at a time. Uh, and they limited how many visitors per day. So it's two people per day. And each of those two people can only be in there for maybe a half an hour. And they have to be in a tie vex suit and they literally, uh, can't kiss her on the cheek. I mean, it's ah, we're talking monstrosities here where people were looking at their dying grandma through a window. If she's on the first floor, that would be just a lucky coincidence. But they would have to go outside of the facility, tap on the window and wave to grandma.

Steve: So you have to ask, how does this happen? And Brett, you've heard me say, what the hell? It's like my big three money, power, ego. And I think all of those were at play here. So when people were wrong, instead of like admitting it and reversing their tracks, they doubled down because their egos in the way. And then you had people that were wrong and didn't care because they were getting power and or money and it was like this perfect storm. And then you had the lemmings. This is what surprised me the most about the countries. You had the lemmings saying, well, they're doing the best they can, or we believe them or whatever.

Norm: It's like we're not I'll gladly give up my writing.

Steve: This cake is baked with different ingredients than that.

Norm: Folks.

Steve: Like we left England, we left the king, right. We think for ourselves.

Brett: Yeah. And, uh, for me, I would love to see this all brought out in the light. What we did right, what we did wrong, if nothing else, for the next when this happens again and you're getting.

Steve: From it right.

Norm: We'Re going to have another hell yeah.

it's shown that we did in the: 1920

Norm: Well, Brett, uh, to support your point, there are actively there are voices calling for every flu season since Masking was such a success and it was so readily accepted by the American people, they're now saying, hey, you know what? Every flu season we should all mask up and they're looking to get governors. I mean, now that the election is over, I could see Governor DeWine, we got a bad flu season coming up. I could see him ordering us all to remask again.

Brett: And that's what the scary part of allowing executive, um, order, whatever the hell they want to call us, saying, yes, we're going to do this. But I think if we don't dig down on what really happened and what did happen, we are doing a disservice to our people. Uh, 100 years from now, we need.

Norm: To know the facts, what worked and.

Steve: What and why and what is the power levers of corruption? What are the power levers of corruption.

Brett: To be aware of?

Norm: The liberals are truly the party of science. They always like to say they are like with climate what? We're the party of science? You're a science denier. Oh no, dudes, you people are the science deniers. You people are the ones that don't want studies before we do something. You want to go on a hunch or you want to use it because you can control people. You have like ulterior motives for a lot of this, uh, science.

Steve: It's emergent that we have to do. We have no time to study.

Norm: We got to do it now. Who was it that said recently the whole climate agenda, the whole Paris Accords is all based on the reality is in the next 100 years the oceans waters are expected to rise one 8th of an inch mhm on the realistic.

Steve: Now like the catastrophic predictions, which are like the mathematical models of those are so far out of a field that I'm worth discussing.

Norm: So from one 8th of an ish.

Steve: Realistic scenario is like this tiny, like one degree or half a degree.

Norm: If we just extinguished mankind, if we all just took a death pill and laid down and died we don't know if any of this is manmade. I mean, a solar sunspot can do this. Um, within six months the entire climate could be different because of a solar flare or a sunspot or a magnetic.

Brett: To go to that point to fix it. They are looking at, and they have been for a while, but they came up with the news during this global summit shit going down that we are now getting closer and closer to controlling our climate, controlling the weather. They sense stuff which scares the heck out of me.

Steve: It's bad.

Brett: We don't mess with Mother Nature. This whole system is pretty perfect if you think about it. And yes, we may be screwing with.

Norm: It a little bit.

Steve: But it's fine tuning of the universe. God's fine tuning of the universe is incredible.

Norm: Exactly.

Steve: And if we start tweaking that, we are going to get what we deserve.

Norm: There was this program, I'm sure you guys caught it. Uh, that biden rolled out and they're financing a study to see what they can do in outer space. To deploy essentially an umbrella around the globe that will cut down on the amount of sunlight that can get through.

Brett: Uh, guys even realize how dangerous that even when you just say that when.

Norm: The wrong hands wait a minute.

Brett: Turns off the light to the world.

Norm: Guys, what's funny about it?

Brett: Oh my God.

Norm: Hasn't the entire aegis of the EPA been to reduce airborne pollutants man made.

Steve: Influences on the environment? So we're going to create the ultimate.

Norm: Man made influence on right, exactly. Right. Wait a minute, I thought we were.

Steve: Doing that with industrial money, power, ego, total God comp. It's a God complex and it's tied to money. Who's making money on the project?

Norm: Right?

Steve: Who's making money? Exactly. It's always about the money. I'm not shy to say I went to a therapist during a hard time in my life.

Norm: Uh, that's very healthy. And it's brave for you.

Brett: It should be done for you. Need it.

Norm: Good. Great.

Steve: One of the things we talked about was my cell phone. It's like never unplugging and never like always being on call. It's like, man, I'm always stressed and why this? I got this, I get this. And he's like, why don't you turn your phone off? I was like, yeah, but if there's an emergency and he just laughed. He was one of the last time you had an emergency.

Norm: No shit.

Steve: And I couldn't think of one. I could not think of one. So what do we do? We make little things emergencies now, mhm, because we have to justify what we're doing by creating emergencies. But like a true emergency and they happen. I get it. Like your loved one is in a car crash. But then he would ask you, do you really think you won't be available if your loved ones in a car crash? Somebody won't find what happened before you had that device. Right. And you could say, well, it's preventative to have my cell phone in the car when I'm driving. And it is. It would be stupid not to do that anymore.

Brett: Yeah, right.

Steve: But it doesn't mean that I have to always answer a call at ten at night. At seven at night. I don't have to be on call 24/7. We don't have to be. Because these aren't emergencies, folks. They're not. So don't create emergencies to justify what you otherwise want to do for money, power and ego.

Brett: Well, when we had that 24 hours access, if you think about it, was landline phones, right? If our kids or we needed to call mom and dad, the phone rang. Jared in an.

Steve: Emergency.

Norm: Right. He did.

Steve: And fortunately, it was solved. But not because of, uh it would have been solved either way.

Norm: Right.

Steve: It's like he wasn't on call 24/7 or whatever it is. It's just one of those things where, um, let's put life in perspective here.

Norm: Yeah. Unless you're going to go down and bail somebody out of night court and it's your son or some immediate relative, it can wait till morning.

Steve: It can almost always wait. Yeah, it can almost always wait.

uh, the pokey, cool off till: 09:00

Steve: I was down in Kentucky, where there is very sketchy cell service. I've almost unplugged. I've been hunting in Kentucky.

Brett: How did they make you feel when you didn't have cell service?

Steve: I felt great.

Brett: Did you really? Okay.

Steve: It was antsy at first, but the.

Brett: Kind of naked feel, yes.

Steve: After a day, I was like, Man, I could live like this.

Norm: You did not start to the theme song for Deliverance.

Steve: No. When I finally plugged in, you got.

Norm: A pretty mouth, Steve.

Steve: I also may have used it as a partially I knew where I could go if I needed to get sell service.

Norm: Yeah, sure.

Steve: And it wasn't far away from where I was. And I used sort of as an excuse, this notion. I don't have cell service to myself.

Norm: To say, but I got a gun.

Steve: And I had a rifle.

Norm: I m would like to, uh, just bring up a couple because I know we're getting close on time. Probably. I'm going to bring up a couple of, uh, Ohio things before we close out, um, if we're getting there. Um, two things, uh, that occur in the news since the last time we all got together. There, uh, was a, ah, rather dramatic video of, um, a police chase of a perp who ran into a Warren, Ohio daycare center. And you can find a video online, and nobody was killed. Um, the coppers taped him and arrested him. But I got to be thinking a little bit about this. Uh, so the perp, apparently, it always seems to start from some kind of traffic incident, so he wouldn't pull over and whatever, and they ended up chasing him. He went into a building and they chased him in there. Uh, and it was a daycare center. So we're talking preschool children, and mostly the staff is female, so very vulnerable. And he just busted through the front door. The cops were right on his heels. He jumped over a divider there's little kids, and basically a little like, um, one of those ballrooms where you bouncy rooms or whatever, and there's little kids in there, and this guy just pull vaults right over the divider into there. He didn't crush anybody who's a rather heavy looking guy, maybe 300 pounder. And, um, they tased him. And I got to thinking, you know, I could very easily see where the cops could be construed to be the bad guy if the TASE went wrong. There's been instances where they tell you somebody, they have a heart attack, they die. And I got to be thinking about this. And luckily, in this case, it didn't happen. This man will go on, and he'll have his trial or whatever. He'll live. But it occurs to me that we need a precept in our criminal probably, uh, common law. And I used to listen to the great Barry Barber described this. Whenever there was either a private citizen, like an intruder into the house and a private citizen is defending their house or a cop is arresting somebody. And that precept would be violence by a criminal invites over reaction. I really love that concept because I don't think the rest of us, the non violent community, which is us three, which is the vast majority of American society is nonviolent. And when we are exposed to violence by, uh, other people, the idea that we have to act the police or us in our homes or us on our property or Steve out there hunting or Brett driving home in his jeep or me dealing with some crazy at the racetrack. If we are treated to violence, if we are approached violently in whatever scenario, and we overreact, we make a little mistake. We may be, you know, uh, maybe the guy is starting to back out the window, but we can't tell because it's dark in the room, and we shoot him anyway. So he's retreating, and I'm standing my ground, and now I'm in trouble for some crazy reason because I overreacted. I like the idea. And this triggered this thought, this Warren, Ohio, incident that so what if that guy had died from being tased his family shouldn't be entitled to jack didley. He went into a daycare center. He threatened those little babies. He threatened those women. He made the cops go in there and do his duty. And if they teased him to the point that his heart stopped, I don't give a shit. I care. As a human being, I am sorry for his loss of life, but his family should not be able to get a dime from the Warren County Sheriff or the state patrol or whoever, wherever municipality that was. And I feel the same way about all of this that innocent people should be there ought to be a gimme, a mulligan for nonviolent people who are having to handle violence that's imposed upon them.

Brett: Well, the proof of burden on, like you said, the home invasion. The homeowner didn't see the person backing out. So prove that that homeowner had malice beyond scared shitless because they have a home invader, uh, intentionally. She knew that person I've been wanting to kill that person for. You know what I mean?

Steve: It's just that you already have in place everything necessary to affect you at your goal, Norm. And it doesn't mean that people just get an automatic pass. It means there are safeguards in the system. The government still has to prove somebody guilty. The government still has to come in with evidence. And like you said, Brett established that this person didn't act in self defense. Now, in Ohio, at least beyond a reasonable doubt, we were the last, I think, uh, that shifted the burden. But now the government has the burden of proving you did not act in self defense. It doesn't mean that it's always going to be perfect. It doesn't mean that it's going to be easy on the person who had to act in self defense. But you have to go through it. And the reason you have to go through it is because when somebody doesn't really act in self defense, you want to be able to catch that person, too. And if you give everybody a pass, you're going to be liable to cast that free pass too broadly. And if you give everybody if you don't give anybody a pass, then it casts too broadly the other way. The system isn't perfect, but maybe it is perfect. You can get I think what you're really getting at, Norm, is political intervention into the process that already is there, like we saw with Floyd, like we saw with, um, any of these alleged police brutality cases. Because there are instances where police go too far and they ought to be prosecuted and there ought to be a check on that. Otherwise we can't prevent it from happening again.

Norm: Sure.

Steve: But then when the politicians come in and say, we don't care about the standard, we're going to make this about race, we're going to make this about gender, we're going to make this about we, uh, hate the police, so we're going to go after these people artificially. Now, that's a problem. It's like anything else. Like the system works, let it work. Uh, just don't meddle. Yes. And we have started to metal for political purpose, both sides.

Brett: And I think the general public doesn't realize there are systems in play. It looks as though outside looking in it's, Willynilly.

Norm: That's right.

Brett: It does. It looks like chaos from my point of view. It did until I started learning a lot from you and listening to lawyer talking and knowing you over the past few years now, I have a better feeling that things do work out.

Steve: They tend to.

Brett: They tend to.

Norm: Yes.

Steve: And the exceptions make the give it time.

Norm: And what citizens really want to live their lives is they want a very clear rulebook. Sure. They want to know what the boundaries and the limits are. They want to understand their rights. And, you know, I was just thinking, I'm coming down to a bad neighborhood, let's say, and I'm thinking, okay, I've got a pistol. It's loaded, but it's in a lockable. It's in a safe. It's in a portable safe. And I got to thinking, uh, well, here I am. Supposedly, this is now constitutional carry. I'm not even carrying it. Could I just put that locked safe where only I know the combination, and just keep it in my pickup truck? And I actually don't know the answer.

Brett: To that question because you need to listen to munitions podcast.

Norm: I get it. Those kinds of questions. We're a good guy, a non criminal, a non felon, a guy who has no criminal record whatsoever except a traffic ticket. You fought the long guy. I don't even know. I mean, that kind of shit just drives me nuts. Why isn't it crystal clear what you can and cannot do? Why is it such a freaking mystery and I have to expose myself to a felony, uh, to find out the answer? That's ridiculous.

Brett: I'm seeing all these mods modifications you can do to Jeep. I'm a brand new Jeep owner back again, a Jeep owner. But all these mods I'm seeing these pics of modifications, uh, of having a pistol right by your door, and I'm just cringing going, what state are you in? It's like Ohio. Yeah, I know, exactly. And it's just like but to your point, why?

Norm: Right?

Brett: Just because you can. And then to your point, too, of, wow, talk about opening a can of worms. You better know what you're doing with that thing. You better know what you better know what the hell?

Steve: People ask me all the time in the Mission's podcast with Director Brass, this other show I do, we just interviewed Andrew Bronco, and Andrew Bronca is a self defense expert. And I said it there, and I've said it before. People ask me all the time, I'm a huge gun advocate, a firearms advocate. Um, I hunt.

Norm: You believe in self defense, I've heard. Absolutely.

Steve: I absolutely do. I don't carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, day in and day out. And people ask me all the time Why? And my response is always a sort of flip response, like, because I'm afraid I might have to use it. And you would say that sort of answers the question both ways. That's why you would carry it. But it's also why I don't want to carry it, because it's a huge responsibility, and I don't feel like I'm up for the task. And not that I'm not a man and can't take care of myself, but I don't spend the hours training that I think I should if I'm going to undertake that obligation to go carry a gun. Because you can easily get yourself in huge trouble if you pull your pistol and have to use it, uh, you.

Norm: May not even really understand who the bad guy is.

Steve: You may not know.

Brett: Right.

Norm: I mean, you see a guy pull a gun not wearing a white or.

Brett: Black suit like in the cow Western.

Norm: It could be an off duty cop that recognizes somebody who's wanted and they're both in a McDonald's. And you see a cop, maybe undercover looking, he's got a scraggly beard.

Steve: It happened in that mall case a few years back.

Norm: Yeah. And he pulls a gun on a guy who's neat and clean and all that, and you're thinking, oh, this is a criminal. No, dude, you may not know who the cop no, you need to maybe.

Brett: Stand, just take a pause.

Steve: It's a huge responsibility.

Brett: Yes.

Steve: And I praise those who undertake it. I also pray that they undertake it with the proper training, experience, and knowledge to use that weapon in the correct way. All right, well, with that, we're going to wrap up another comment, since, uh, we were almost going to yes, just real fast, guys.

Norm: I want to mention, um, Kurt Rowe. Major, um, Kurt Rowe of the Ohio Civil Air Patrol. 30 years service in that volunteer organization. And as you know, they assist the Air Force and the State Patrol as a civilian organization. Um, he was one of the five crewmen. In fact, he was a crew chief on the Texas, uh, um oh, goodness, I'm going to forget the name. Texas Rangers. Uh, Texas Raiders, uh, B 17 that was involved in that mid air collision, uh, of the commemorative Air Force down in Dallas. So, um, I want to say something, as in Ohio, uh, that we honor a Major Row, uh, and it, uh, was a terrible accident, nothing intentional. Two airplanes trying to occupy the same space. One apparently, this is the gist of what most people have been saying that know about this stuff. Apparently, the pilot of the fighter plane that crashed into the B 17, uh, was being directed by the air boss to fly a different pattern, and he didn't see that where he was flying was also where the B 17 was. So, you know, there was a human error. Uh, that guy had 34,000 hours in that Bell era Cobra, uh, that fighter plane. So this was no amateur pilot. 34,000 hours in that cockpit. I think he knew how to fly that plane, but, uh, obviously there was a blind spot, and the experts say where he would have needed the sea was, uh, through the floor of the fighter plane, and then he would have seen the B 17. So it's a terrible error. And one of the accrue people was in Ohio. And Major Kurt Row. We honor you, sir. And it was done for Veterans Day. It was, uh, an air show, uh, in honor of the veterans. And, uh, we all honor our veterans here on this show, too.

Steve: All right, well, yeah, obviously praying for uh, all those involved in that. And, uh, what a horrible tragedy. But, um, well, uh, that will wrap it up. I don't know that we'll be here next week after Thanksgiving. Maybe we'll, uh, talk as a team here and decide that. Uh, but, uh, if not, we'll see in two weeks after the holiday. And, uh, the show must go on. Common Sense Ohio, uh, talking about all issues that make common sense or trying to make common sense of all issues maybe that don't make common sense. And we're doing it right here at 511, channel 511, com studio, uh, C. Uh, as always, if you want your own podcast, easy to do, just contact, uh, Brett. He's your podcast. He could be your podcast guy. He's my podcast guy. And you can reach him at Circle 270 Media.com. Uh, and, uh, with that, we will wrap it up. It is a, uh, common Sense Ohio, right from the middle, at least until now.

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