In this episode, I’m joined by Kerry Hawkins, founder of Whist, a wellbeing brand creating refillable candles, home fragrance, and bath products. Kerry shares openly about her journey from running a busy spa to starting a product business with just £100, and the challenges and lessons she’s learned along the way.

We cover:

• The differences between running a service business and a product business.
• How Kerry overcame her fear of showing up on Instagram and why visibility matters.
• Practical ways to sell fragrance products online, including quizzes, discovery packs, and strong scent descriptions.
• Using customer feedback to shape products and build loyalty (Whist now has a 70% returning customer rate).
• Why staying focused on your own path matters more than chasing trends.

This conversation is full of useful, real-world insights for anyone growing a product business – whether you’re just starting out or looking to strengthen what you’ve already built.

Useful Resources

Whist Website https://www.whistuk.com/

Whist Instagram https://www.instagram.com/whist_uk/

Whist Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Whistuk/

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Vicki Weinburg: 00:00:18

Welcome to the Bring youg Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:00:41

Hello.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:00:41

So today on the podcast I'm speaking to Kerry Hawkins from Whist. Kerry creates well being candles, home fragrance and bath products well being.

Her aim is to help people find ways to bring simple self care into busy lives. A moment of calm amidst the chaos. I have a really fascinating conversation with Kerry.

We spoke so much about not only candles and the, you know, making candles and oils and she taught me so many things I had no idea about. For example, did you know what at risk oils were? Well, you will after this episode.

We also spoke about imposter syndrome and the anxiety that comes with starting a business, even though it is actually Kerry's second business and everything that goes into that. Getting feedback from customers, how she sells fragrance products online really successfully.

We just covered such a lot and I think you're going to find this conversation really interesting and inspiring and there's definitely lots to learn here, whatever type of product you might sell. So I would love now to introduce you to Kerry. So hi Kerry, thank you so much for being here. Oh, hi.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:01:46

Thank you for having me.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:01:47

You're so welcome. Can we please start by you giving instructions yourself, your business and what you sell?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:01:53

Of course.

. And my business launched in: 2021

Vicki Weinburg: 00:02:13

Amazing. Thank you. So your business is called Whist? If I pronounce that correctly, yes.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:02:18

Which is actually an old English word that years. So any nice words? Nice phrases I hear because I love words. I write them in a little book.

lly old English word from the: 1500

Vicki Weinburg: 00:02:38

It's a lovely word.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:02:39

It's a gorgeous word, isn't it? Whimsical.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:02:42

Yeah, it is nice. I'd never heard the word. I didn't know of its origins. Oh, thank you for explaining that.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:02:46

Oh, you're welcome.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:02:48

So can you please tell us the story behind whist? What inspired you to start the business and how and where did it all begin?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:02:56

Oh, do you know the. The journey to Whist was quite, quite convoluted in many ways.

So I had a holistic and well being spa which I'd built from a, it was actually built from a spare room at my mum and dad's house resulting in an 8 treatment room high street premises.

So it take me 16 years to build that and I was immensely proud of it and it was beautiful and but it was incredibly stressful dealing with staff and dealing with you know, just the run ins of a high street premises. So I'd always. Obviously I'm a trained aromatherapist. I trained in 16 years ago.

So I'd always use essential oils to manage any feelings of stress or anything like that. And so started creating candles purely to use in our treatment rooms within the spa. But I never, I never dreamt it would become a business.

within the salon. And then in: 2017

So it was just a massive out of nowhere, no warning breakdown.

And I got hospitalized and when I was in the hospital the doctor said to me unless you change something in your life you are going to end up with a full on breakdown. So within two months I had walked away from the salon. Literally shut the doors closed it walked away and then spent a year recovering.

And then with very, very gentle, also known as shoving from my husband, he convinced me to start exploring, launching, launching my candle brand as a business. So yeah, so it was a very convoluted way to come to business.

And then I almost launched in: 2018

So yeah, that's, that's where it kind of stemmed from and then was born from.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:05:45

Amazing.

Thank you so much for sharing that and I'm really sorry for all of the circumstances that led up, up to it as well because it sounds like you had a really hard time.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:05:55

Yeah, it was, it was a very tough road.

But my husband believed in my brand and in me way before I did Even when I was recovering from, you know, the mental stress and he just knew that it would become a brand so he, I took more convincing. But yeah, so he was always the absolute biggest cheerleader and support for me. Sadly, he, he did eventually lose his battle in February this year. So.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:06:28

Yes, I'm so sorry and thank you. He just, it sounds wonderful how much support he gave you.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:06:35

You know, he was the best, he was the best box stamper, tea maker, tissue paper ripper upper, anything he could do to help me. One of the most beautiful things was just, just after I launched whist, I, I was in my candle room, walked out into my garden.

My husband actually had YouTube up trying to learn how to tie the perfect bow for the gift sets. It was the cutest thing.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:07:03

Oh, that's amazing.

How wonderful to have that support because starting anything, I mean I know that you, you, you had your spouse, you'd ran a business before, so I guess that side of it wasn't YouTube, but this is doing something totally different.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:07:14

Oh, and honestly the, the difference between a service based business and a product based business are night and day.

I mean, I personally think a product based business is so much harder, especially when you're just online because it's only you can get your brand out there, you know. So although I had kind of a little bit of business sense, I had zero clue on how to do anything to do with product based business.

So it's been a learn on the job scenario.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:07:47

Yeah. And with that in mind, how have you got word about your brand out there?

Because as you say, having a, having a service business and particularly one with a physical, physical premises, I guess with your spa, you're getting foot traffic, you're getting, people see the business, you're getting repeat customers, people recommending you, TripAdvisor reviews, Google, all of that stuff. But how did you approach all of this with a product?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:08:09

Oh, I mean I started on Instagram, sort of just trying to promote, you know, my brand.

But I had a real fear of Instagram as well because I didn't do the Instagram for the spa that the, my, my girls, they, you know, the young girls, they know all this thing. I'm, I have started whist when I was 49. So it was kind of a real learn, learning curve for me with this social media.

Sorry, can you hear that banging?

Vicki Weinburg: 00:08:38

I can, but don't worry.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:08:40

Are you okay? And so I had to kind of learn how to do that. But for the first two years of having my Instagram for whist I wouldn't show my face. I was terrified.

So that's been a big kind of hurdle to overcome to learn that, you know, people do want to see the person behind the brand and, you know, they want to connect with you in some way. Being a well being brand, that was an important thing anyway. So yeah, I had to kind of get over myself and, and, and get on there. So I, I did that.

I didn't do, I didn't do many markets funny enough because I just didn't feel that a lot of them suited my brand. So I, I did a few, maybe four and that was that. So I have been really lucky. We have a 7, just over 70% returning customer rate.

So that's a beautiful number to me. And obviously those people recommend us. So it's kind of been a bit of word of mouth and social media I would say.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:09:46

Really, that's, that's really interesting, particularly what you said about Instagram. Because Instagram is where I found you, Kerry. I can't remember how, but I think you just popped up. Maybe it was your story, I'm not sure.

Maybe something, you know, that I don't know how the algorithm works. It will sometimes show you things and people it thinks you might like.

Yeah, it was a, I can't fit a story or a post, but it was you and it was you speaking to camera.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:10:08

Okay.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:10:09

Oh, this is interesting.

And I watched that and then, you know, once you watch someone then you get shown more and more and honestly that that's how I first found out about your brand. It was interesting and it was seeing you, it wasn't the products that came up, it was you.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:10:22

I know and that's, it's such a big thing there, isn't it? Kind of people buy from people which we, we, you know, we've known that for years.

But I think when you have a product based business you think you can kind of hide behind it, but you can't, you know, you can't. And, and it's.

The proof is in the pudding in that since I started showing up for my brand and kind of getting over those nerves, my social media following I think has trebled almost. It just, you know, so people do want to see you and you have to get over those fears of that.

You know, you're perhaps like, I had fears thinking I'm not what people would expect from my brand and I've got a common, you know, Essex accent. People might not like that, but you have to just get over that. And yeah, you know, your brand is, you so, yeah, definitely.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:11:13

And particularly with something like candles is a good example because I mean, as you'll know, there are lots of people who sell candles. Yeah.

So I think for someone to choose yours over someone else's, part of it has to be, obviously they have to like your products and want to buy them again and think they smell beautiful, but part of it has to be you as well, because like you say, there's only so many variations. I know your candles are quite different because of how you make them. We'll talk about that a bit later.

But you're right, if you're not showing any of yourself, it makes it a lot harder for someone to choose to buy from you.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:11:41

Yeah.

And I, I love, I, I had discovered a love of Instagram once I discovered a love of community and that was maybe a side effect I didn't know would happen. Naively, I just thought Instagram accounts were Instagram accounts.

But actually when I started showing up, you, you get those messages from people and you kind of get those connections with, and they're true, real connections with people.

And even, you know, when I lost my husband in February, the support that I've had outpouring from that, from these people who kind of don't know me, but showing up as, as, as myself, waltz and all, because I, I try to always keep it authentic. So hence the, the messy hair sometimes and, but you know, I will never paint a picture that life is perfect because that, that's not the way it is.

So. And I think people resonate with that and that's. Yeah, I love the community on Instagram. I'm very fortunate. All lovely people.

You know, I don't, I don't touch wood, I don't get any of the nastiness that I've heard other people get. So yeah, I'm very fortunate, very fortunate.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:12:54

And I wonder if some of that is because of how honest you are. Because I think that people are getting.

Well, maybe I'm only speaking to myself, but I, I don't want to see things that look perfect and beautiful anymore.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:13:06

Yeah.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:13:06

Because you know that things aren't really like that. And it's much nicer seeing what really goes on and seeing someone's, I don't know, messy studio where they work or do you know what I mean?

All these sorts of things, you can just relate to people so much easier.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:13:20

And I think as well, being in my eyes, and it's only a personal thing, being a, well being brand, I wouldn't be a very authentic well being brand if I Was pretending that life is all unicorns and, you know, roses around the door. So I've always tried to, to kind of just be myself and, you know, you're not going to be everybody's cup of tea. I totally get that.

But I've, you know, I wanted, I suppose, to connect with people that, you know, I've had the same struggles they have.

I started my brand with £100 in my bank because as I say, I walked away from my business, I didn't sell it, I'd walked away with a huge fat bill to pay. So my, my candle brand was started with literally pounds that my mum gave me with my birthday. And that's how I bought my first lot of wax.

And I just always wanted to be. You know, I think sometimes social media can make us feel less than and I would hate to ever make anybody feel that. So I just rock up as me.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:14:23

That's amazing. Coming back to starting. So you mentioned that you had some money and you made those first candles. How did you know?

This might be a really silly question, but scent is so personal. And so how did you know? Okay, this is what I'm going to stop. How did you know where to start?

Because I think that you can almost be overwhelmed, can't you, at the beginning. You can have all these different ideas, like, how did you know? Okay, this is what I'm going to start with.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:14:47

Well, I think for me, I perhaps had a little bit of a head start there in that although the scent is incredibly important, of course, for me it always started with a feeling. It was, how do I want that person who uses or burns this candle to feel? And then I would use my experience as an aromatherapist to choose my oils.

And then it would be a case of, you know, blend. Because not, not always. I mean, I can literally show you. So this little blend I made a couple of days ago smells absolutely beautiful as it is.

Pop it in a candle, it's disgusting. So, you know, you have to work all that out.

So although I had the experience of aromatherapy, I didn't have the experience of them working in candles. So but it always. And even now, sort of. So I've made candles now for 10 years, but even now it always starts with how do I want someone to feel?

Do I want them to feel grounded or relaxed or sleep, you know, sleep aid or uplifted? And that's, that's the basis I start the, the process with.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:15:57

That makes a lot of sense.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:15:58

Yeah, yeah. I was also very fortunate.

Right, right at the Beginning maybe eight, nine years ago again, my lovely husband sent me on a one day workshop with a guy in London who made candles. He had a royal warrant and he made candles and done a one to one workshop with me.

So I kind of learned the basics of making a candle which was brilliant because I had no clue. And then this, the sort of the scent side of it came from. Yeah, my experience in aromatherapy. So yeah, I was, I was fortunate in that way.

And of course you use fragrance oils, they're all made for you anyway.

So if somebody was going to start making candles and aromatherapy wasn't their gig, then fragrance oils, they can just literally purchase and you know, pour and mixed kind of scenario.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:16:47

Oh, that's really interesting. I mean I know it's won't be as quite as straightforward as that, but. Yeah, I had no idea that was.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:16:52

Yeah, I made it said a little bit. It's still lots of testing he's doing but the, the fragrance is already created for them.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:16:59

Oh, that's really interesting.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:17:01

Yeah.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:17:01

So speaking about fragrances, so I know you don't use any at risk essential oils, so can you tell us what are at risk essential oils? Because I had, until I came across this on your website, I didn't know what the term was that might be interesting for people.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:17:14

Oh, okay. Okay.

So as we have endangered animals and you know, in endangered coral reefs and all these sort of things, there is actually a red, it's called the Red list and it's by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and they create a red list of endangered flora and fauna and plants. And, and I learned about this back in my aromatherapy training.

So I kind of always known about it and I was adamant that I didn't want to use any of the essential oils from any of those plants. So to give you an example, sandalwood. Let's go with sandalwood. Absolutely beautiful oil.

But I personally won't use it because it's on the almost extinct due to over farming. It's on the vulnerable and over farmed list.

So as somebody with sustainability at the heart of my brand, it would make absolutely no sense for me to use an oil from a plant that's at risk. The same as rose. I won't use a rose essential oil because it's something like £10,000 of rose petals to make a pound of rose essential oil.

So it just, just, you know, it's balancing the gifts that we get from nature with essential oils to actually being mindful of how we use those. I mean there Are there are ways of undoing it as well. For example, frankincense used to be a big.

No, no, it was, you know, it was over farmed and we couldn't use it. But that's actually come around again now.

So frankincense is a, is a beautiful oil again that we can now use without you know, going against, against those ethics.

But of course the, the list is always changing but there is counteracting on that as well because a lot of essential oil providers now will work with the farmers of, of the essential oils to make sure their practices are sustainable. So it's just a little bit of due, due diligence really to ensure that you're not buying from somebody who doesn't follow good practices.

So yeah, it's, we're trying. The essential oil market is, you know, is getting better in that way. It's just being careful who you buy from.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:19:42

That was really interesting because honestly I'd never heard about the at risk oil. So thank you for explaining that.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:19:48

That's kind and I think it's important that people know that if they use an essential oils, you know, because you know, if we're given these beautiful oils to use by nature, we have to kind of give back and yeah, be, be, be sensible.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:20:04

Yeah, definitely. So thank you for explaining that because I also think as consumers it's useful for us to know that as well.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:20:09

Oh good.

I mean I always worry that things like that are probably boring to other people but I just feel they're an important thing to express when, when I took the words like sustainability and eco friendly are bounded about so readily now, aren't they Think you have to kind of, for want of a better word, put your money where your mouth is and actually know I am sustainable because of this or because of that, not just because I use recycled packaging. So yeah, it's an important ethic to me.

I live my life as a vegan and eco conscious lifestyle so it's really important that those ethics are through my brand.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:20:49

Definitely.

And like you say it's something tangible because you're right, lots of brands will say they're sustainable but you can point to the tangible thing you're doing. I think that's really important.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:20:58

Yeah, yeah, I think we're getting better though. I think that, you know, people are learning that eco friendly has to dig a little bit deeper than just using recycled paper or. Yeah, definitely.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:21:11

I think everyone's coming a really long way from where we were five years ago.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:21:14

Thank goodness.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:21:17

So let's talk a bit more about fragrance, if that's okay. Because I think selling anything fragranced online is a real, real challenge. How have you approached this?

I know you mentioned before you, your candles, you know, you start, your starting point is the feeling but obviously there is still the scent.

And customers probably do want to know what will this smell like when I, when I light it in my office or my bedroom or what, you know, wherever they're using it. How are you approaching that? Because that must be one of the trickiest things about selling candles in my opinion online.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:21:49

It can be. But I found that if. So if you was to go to my website a, there's a, there's a quiz there anyway, a fragrance quiz.

So if you're looking for the well being benefits, there's a fragrance quiz that you can do and it will direct you to some suggestions. People can then go to them suggestions and it will give the scent notes. But also I try to give a little bit of the, what I call the scent story.

The reason why I created it. So for example, I do a candle called Bohemia. Well that was inspired by my very carefree years of traveling throughout Asia.

So I wanted to capture those notes of the like the vetiver and a bit of lemongrass and all those kind of flavors that make me think of, of Asia. So it gives people then I hope an idea of what they're gonna smell from that candle. And it also gives way.

It's good for so you know, uplifting and creating a feeling of carefreeness that kind of, it will give that bit. But also I try and to explain the scent notes and where my inspiration for that came from. So I hope that that helps.

I also have disco what I call discovery bags. So it has 10 of my best selling fragrances either in tea lights or wax melts that people can purchase.

And then they get kind of a one of everything to, to try before they go for the big one.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:23:20

That's a really good idea. I really like that.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:23:22

Yeah. And you know, they're so popular because I think it gives people just a little taste of something. But.

And it's always, I always love hearing what ends up being their favorite because it will always be the one that they, they think won't be. You know, it's. And I find that so interesting because your body knows what it needs.

So if they open that bag and they're instantly drawn to one, then the likelihood is that that's what their body needs at that time. So people might think, oh, I think I'm gonna love the one with rose Geranium in.

But actually it's the one with spearmint in that they love, you know, so it's, yeah, it's really interesting. I, I love things like that. But I think it does help, I think it does help to offer those kind of ways to, to try before they buy.

But I've never, I've never actually had anybody say, oh, I don't like buying scent online. I mean, perhaps they wouldn't tell me, but most people just try it and I think it helps as well. I offer, what do I offer now?

1, 2, 3, 4 different, 5 different sizes of candle starting from like 40, 14 pounds up to 50 pounds. So there's an option where they could perhaps try it with a little less risk.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:24:35

Yes, that's, that's actually true and I've definitely done that. When I've bought candles before, is it sometimes quite nice to get a few smaller ones and then see which ones like you say, more drawn to?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:24:45

Yeah, yeah.

And also with the refills because a lot of, I mean I, the refillable candles that I introduced two years ago outsell my other candles four to one now and the, the refills are half the price of the standard candle. So it's a really cost effective way to keep trying different scents. So I think that has kind of helped as well.

I always listen to my consumers as well.

You know, I'm always asking little surveys on Instagram and things to get people's feedback and feedback that people leave in the review system always helps me. You know, I really do pay attention to these things.

So I, it's important to me that people are happy so I will pay attention and tweak things if I feel they need it. And yeah, so it's kind of, I suppose it's quite a four pronged approach with feedback, discovery packs, scent descriptions.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:25:43

But I think this is all really, this is all really useful things for people to know though, because I think I've definitely, I've spoken to other brands on here before who've said, oh, you know, I find it really hard to sell something scented, you know, online. So I think these are all fantastic ideas that other people can, can learn from as well.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:26:01

Yeah, I mean, if a discovery pack can be created, you know, fairly, because a discovery pack, I feel has to be fairly cost effective for a client, for a customer because if it's dearer than a normal sized candle, that probably put them off. So I made sure that I kept the cost as low as possible. So although it does come in a beautiful bag.

I've kept, you know, the packaging to a minimum just to keep that cost as low as possible. And it's not, you know, you're not kind of. For me, I'm not aiming to make money on those discovery packs.

I'm aiming for people to come back and buy the bigger versions. So, yeah, that was a great thing to bring in.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:26:38

That was a great idea. And did that come from customer feedback or was that something you came up with?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:26:43

No, that's because my brain never, ever shuts off as most small business owners. So I was thinking of different ways where.

So I do a seasonal, I do, I do two subscriptions, I do a seasonal well being box and I also do a wax melt subscription. And all the time in the seasonal, seasonal, exclusive box is an exclusive scent.

And people started to say to me, oh, it's a shame that you don't do those exclusive scents, like as a collection. And that's kind of what started it off. I started thinking, actually that's not a bad idea.

I wonder if I could do that with the whole collection, my signature collection. And yeah, and that's kind of what triggered the idea off.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:27:27

I think it's a really good idea.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:27:29

Yeah, yeah, it worked really well. I mean, I, I, every week they're going out the discovery bags, so.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:27:37

Yeah, and coming back to the feedback you get from customers. Do you find when you put a poll on Instagram, do you, do you get a lot back from people? Are people engaging with you?

And the reason I ask is feedback so hard to get. So it's amazing if you are.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:27:49

Yeah, I'm really fortunate. I get great engagement on, on Instagram again, I think because of that community, the community side of it.

And I, I genuinely think that people are lovely, people want to help and they want to feel heard by you. And if you sort of, if they give feedback and I then implement that, it makes them feel very special.

And so, yeah, my, my Instagram community know that I love their feedback. I will take any criticisms on board, any, Anything, anything. So I think the more you do it, the more people think that you genuinely want to know.

I mean, I will joke sometimes and I'll say, okay, by this stage, you guys are actually running my business because I'll be asking for feedback on something, whether it's changing labels or, I don't know, bringing out a new scent. And I'm between two and I say, which one? You know, do you like the idea of more? And I'm always doing, asking for feedback.

It's important to Me, it's important to me. I'm. I think the people pleaser in me strives to hear that feedback and wants to do the right thing.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:28:59

And as you say, your customers are the best source of advice, inspiration and ideas for how to run your business. Because I mean it's for them, isn't it?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:29:09

That's why you do it, isn't it? I mean, yes, we all have to earn a living, but the, the my why has always been to provide, you know, simple self care for busy people.

It's in, it's, it's important that we look after ourselves.

So yes, I want, I'm not gonna, it's not charity, but same time it's, you know, my why has never changed as, as to why I've created my brand and I send out a lose newsletter every month. And in that I will always say if there's anything that you, you know, I'm an open book.

If anybody ever wants to give me any feedback or something you feel I can do better or da da da da da. And I will always be very open about that.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:29:51

I think that's brilliant. And I think as people see that you implement things that they suggest as well that like you say, that just encourages even more feedback.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:29:59

Yeah, I think they, they think, oh God, she does listen or you know, I'm not just asking for lip service. I genuinely want to know because as well I found as well, since being on my own, like with my.

Not my husband here, my audience have kind of become the people I run things by.

So I again I will joke with them and say you're now my surrogate husband because you know, he, I have them to run it by because they know my business as well as I do.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:30:33

And it's important to have that, isn't it? It's important to have someone or multiple someones to run things by.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:30:39

Yeah, it really is. It's. It's that kind of working. When you work as a solo, you know, self.

Solo small business owner, you, it's important to have those people to run things by because even though you know in your heart you're doing the right thing and you feel very comfortable with your decision just to sort of, I don't know, have that one person or in my case 4,000 people say yeah, I love that idea. Just gives you that confidence. And you know, bringing a product, especially a new candle blend to market is a lengthy process.

I mean sometimes it can take months if, if the testing doesn't go right. So yeah, I always want to make sure I'm on the same song sheet as my customers.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:31:23

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So a lot of your products I'm guessing might be bought as gifts. So do you have any advice for selling products intended for gifting?

Because obviously candles make amazing gifts.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:31:38

Yeah, I mean gifting is such an honour. I, I have, I feel such a sense of, I don't know, that warm fuzzy feeling if somebody tells me they're buying something for a gift.

And you don't always find out if they are but sometimes people might say oh, could you pop a gift note in or which I love to do. So I think that yeah, it really does feel like an honor. And with.

I don't do actually millions of gifts gift sets, although this Christmas there may be a lot more coming. But they, there's sort of the gifting, I think it's giving people options so having options for them.

Like I worked with a potter to create lots of little tea light holders for me. So having them in three colorways all set up as a gift set ready to go. It's boxed, it's ribboned, it's ready.

I think that's a really good thing to do because people, especially last minute shoppers, they love to think I could just literally buy that. And it's, it's in, you know, it's around Auntie Jones in no time and having, yeah. Having those options and also personalization people love.

Which again is something that is coming to whis this year. I've just invested in a wonderful machine so there's going to be all personalization with that. So. And I think that's, people love that with gifting.

They love that kind of personal touch. A letter.

I bought out a letterbox gift oh gosh, three years ago and that is just again one of those big sellers because it's, it's really reasonably reasonably priced and it's boxed in a box that will literally go through someone's letter box so they don't have to have their get their gifty being at home or checking that it will go through the letter box. And, and that's a really popular little gift.

So it's just having those options and price points, you know, from reasonably priced or 15 pounds up to 100 pounds if that's what people want.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:33:47

That makes sense.

I think it, I think it sounds like having products that are intended for gifting like you said, like your sets make a lot of sense because they're ready, like you said, they're ready made gifts. They come wrapped up, they look beautiful.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:33:59

And it's giving people that idea before they even know they need that idea, isn't it? And some companies do that so well.

I mean, like, I'm not just talking candle brands, but I can think of the sort of companies who just gift, do their gifting beautifully. And I know myself if I'm ever stuck for a present for someone, I will go on to certain sites and know that I can find something.

So it's, it's giving them that visual that this is the perfect gift that you need without them perhaps even knowing that that's what they was looking for. And I think the only way you can have that is with nice photography and, you know, having the, having them all ready made, ready to go.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:34:38

That makes sense. Thank you. And thank you so much for everything you shared today, Kerry. It's been so lovely to speak.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:34:45

It's been my pleasure.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:34:47

One more question before we finish, if that's okay. This is the big one. So I ask this to everyone. What would your number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

Kerry Hawkins: 00:34:58

Oh, good one. I think my biggest piece of advice would be stay in your lane.

You know, don't almost be blinkered about it and don't worry what anybody else is doing. Don't think that you've got to follow trends or follow the popular kids or, you know, the big brands.

Just do what is, what is from your heart because if it isn't, you'll tire very quickly and it won't feel fun and authentic and it will feel, you know, like a really hard job if you're not doing something you love. So most of us who start small businesses, I think, I'm not saying all but most, it was a hobby that we loved before it became a job.

So if you, if you do it where that you change everything because you want, you know, you want to fit in with everybody else, it will become dull to you quite quickly. So stay in your own lane and do not compare yourself to anybody else. We will all get there in our own time and on our own journey. So, yeah.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:36:07

Oh, that's brilliant advice. I love that. Thank you so much, Kerry.

Kerry Hawkins: 00:36:10

You're so welcome.

Vicki Weinburg: 00:36:13

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you, you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickywineberg. Com.

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.